We Love in a Society

Hannah just took a trip to the Whydah museum and now she's here to share all about the rich lives of pirates! The what-dah, you say? Find out about this sunken ship off Cape Cod as well as the pirate lives that, yo-ho yo-ho, may very well be for you and me. 

What is We Love in a Society?

Two lovers engage in sociologically minded discussions exploring books, movies, and whatever else fits the bill.

Ahoy Samwise!

I mean, Ahoy, Sam.

Ahoy me Hannah!

How are you doing today?

I am good.

I am just getting into
my second cup of coffee for the day,

and I will probably have another
two more.

Wow, that's so intestinally Demanding.

Yeah, I've learned to live with it.

Do you want to tell the good people what
we're going to be talking about today?

One piece. Well,

yeah,
we're probably going to have some tangents

into one piece,
but that's going to be your talking part.

Since I have fragments of it
tattooed onto my body.

Yes. I don't.

But what I do have
is notes on a field trip

that I went on this week
to the Whydah Museum on Cape Cod.

The what museum?

The Whydah museum.

What is Whydah? w-h-y-d-a-h.

The Whydah was a pirate ship

that sunk off the coast of Cape
Cod in 1715.

April 1715. Okay. It was a

slave ship

sailing from London to West Africa.

Okay.

And it was taken by Sam Bellamy,
an OG Cape Codder

and his crew and somebody,
you know, started to recover the wreckage

from this ship,

which is no easy feat because it straight
up exploded on the bottom of the ocean,

scattered everywhere, and founded this
great museum on Cape Cod.

If you're ever in Cape Cod and it’s
a rainy day, go to this museum.

It's great. It's very atmospheric.

It's very well-researched.

It's DEI propaganda that would make
the Trump administration so angry.

And it's atmospheric and creepy.

And there's a bunch of little boys
running around in pirate hats.

Very vibey, very cool.

And I was just running around this museum,

you know, a 35-year-old 11 year old.

With my glasses on

and my notebook just scribbling down notes
so that I could talk to you about it.

Cool. Yeah.

There's so much in that museum
that I'm not going to cover here, though.

There's a lot about the technology,
the weaponry, the money, the artifacts,

how they do underwater archeology

and restore the pirate ship and much more.

So don't think that after you've listened
to this podcast, you ought not to go.

Oh, and the specific people
who were on the pirate ship too,

it gets into all of that.

So definitely a very fun afternoon.

I don't want to take away from that
by describing a lot of the things

that I learned at the museum, but
I thought it would be a great jumping off

point for a conversation
about the mythologizing of pirates.

Fact versus fiction,
how pirates were mythologized

back in the Golden Age of Piracy,
and how pirates are mythologized now,

and why we think certain narratives
tend to propagate and certain

other narratives don't.

And of course, we're releasing
this episode in conjunction

with the acclaimed remaster of everyone's
favorite video game.

And of course, I'm talking
about Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag.

Oh yeah, of course.

Something that I know so much about.

Yeah, yeah.

As a disclaimer,

I do want to say that this episode
is probably going

to have no further discussion
of Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag.

Oh, well, I mean, you could
I wouldn't object to it.

I don't think it's really
that preeminent of a video game.

Okay, well we will.

Well, yeah, that joke is going to land
flat for me because

what do I know
about which video games are preeminent?

There's only Mario Kart so far.

That's the only video game there is.

Mario Kart is the gateway drug to video
game.

Oh, okay. Well, stay tuned everybody.

All right.

So remember where we were last year
with climbing?

That's a good point.

That's such a good point.

Next year, Hannah will be
in the international competition for

a Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

All right.

Join me. Sam.

We're going back to the late 1600s
in modern day Massachusetts.

Sam Bellamy grew up poor on the Cape.

He perhaps worked briefly in the Navy.

The story that the museum likes to tell.

That seems like a fun story to me.

So we're going to tell it

is that he fell in love
with a wealthy woman, and in order

to win her parents approval to marry her,
he had to go seek his fortune.

So he went off to pursue piracy
because it's late 1600s.

Or actually, by the time he went off to
seek his fortune, it was the early 1700s.

It's the early 1700s.

social mobility isn't a thing.

that does not exist.

So if you want to seek your fortune,

there's a very short list of ways
that you might go about doing it.

And piracy is one of them.

Bellamy started on a ship with another guy
whose name I don't remember

because he doesn't matter.

And the other guy had a moral objection
to taking British ships.

Bellamy had no such objection.

And so they went their separate ways
amicably.

And the next crew voted Bellamy in
as its captain, because on pirate ships

positions were elected democratically,
with everyone having an equal vote

and everyone taking an equal
share of the loot

on the ships
that the pirate ship or fleet took.

Wait, so you're telling me that democracy

was not invented by the Founding Fathers,

but actually by a group of communist
pirates?

Yeah, our history books
really have been changed.

They have.

So obviously, this was very different
from the case on merchant

and naval vessels, where social mobility
was pretty much nonexistent.

Salaries were low,
and no one had any say in decision

making outside of the prescriptive
hierarchy.

Eventually, Bellamy's
crew took the Whydah.

The crew would vote on which ships to take
and where the ship wanted to go.

It wasn't that they elected the captain,

and then the captain
would make these decisions.

They elected the captain,
and then the crew would all make decisions

together, still democratically.

The Whydah was a slave ship and
it was sailing from London to West Africa.

Many slave ships during this
era took people by the dozens or hundreds.

The widow was a smaller trader
that brought in groups of men in 2 or 3.

These men were branded, they were chained,
and they were being brought

to do backbreaking work on plantations
in the Caribbean.

Bellamy's
crew on The Whydah was of about 150 men.

They were English,
Irish, indigenous American,

African, Dutch, Spanish,
Welsh, Swedish and more.

And they called themselves Robin Hood's
Men for reasons that seem pretty obvious.

The famous
phrase motley crew means racially diverse.

There were many nationalities
on pirate ships,

and so there were many languages of origin
on pirate ships.

And so people would just speak

whatever language was that of the ship
that they had taken spoke.

So on the Whydah That was English

because it was sailing from London
when they took it.

So wait. Sorry. Yes. To clarify.

So this pirate crew, led by Bellamy

on another ship took over the Whydah

and then the Whydah became part
of, like, the fleet of ships.

That's correct. Okay,
so now there's two ships.

At least I didn't keep track.

I'm so sorry,
but there's at least two ships.

There's at least two ships.

Yeah, and you can probably find out
exactly how many ships

and all the specific logistics of that
by going to the museum.

Yeah, I was much more interested
in the social dynamics

and social organization
and what life was like.

Yeah. And that's
what I'm going to be getting into.

Yeah.

Did you know that many pirates were black?

I'm interested to hear more specifics.

Certainly doesn't surprise me.

It would be interesting, though, to hear.

Like what Maybe percentage,
if we'd even know that.

Well, for example, on Blackbeard's
crew, 60% of the members were black.

That's unusually high.

They gave some other examples.

There was one that was
there was a crew of 270,

and 70 of them were black, but it was
a disproportionately high percentage.

And perhaps the reason why is that
at this time, a black seaman could

legally be abducted and sold into slavery
anytime their ship was import.

Isn't that crazy? Wait, meaning like..

You can be a freedman.
You can be a free person.

You are not enslaved.

If your ship is in port, you can be
abducted and sold into slavery legally.

Wow. So I certainly wouldn't
have any loyalty to nations with that law.

No, not at Like other pirate crews,
the crew of the Whydah

came from rough lives
and humble beginnings.

And one illustrative example of this
that the museum featured

was that of their swords.

So noblemen and military men
would use a sword called a rapier.

And these swords are lighter and easier
to manipulate, but they require training.

Pirates tended to use cutlasses.

They were shorter, thicker and wider.

You need more physical strength
and less training.

The plaque of the museum
said that these types of swords are ideal

for lobbing off limbs.

So like that seems like a good opening
to say that

although we're going to be talking about
many of the attributes of piracy

that are kind of politically radical
and that I think are cool.

They were very much doing murder.

So not moral beacons, but still, like,

you can see why they have become

examples of rebellion and democracy.

Yeah.

I feel like to draw an inspiration
from last episode.

You could almost relate them
to like, the anti-hero.

But I think that that mythologizing

of pirates as the anti-hero has become

whiter and less explicitly

anti hierarchical over time,
which I think is really telling.

So piracy
meant swearing off loyalty to any nation.

The jolly Roger was a real flag
that was flown by pirate crews,

but there were much more variations to it
than we typically imagine.

Pirates called themselves
brothers of the coast

and thought of themselves
as an alternative nation

because they had sworn off
citizenship to any nation,

they had no rights under the law
and could legally be killed with impunity.

There were various formal roles
on most pirate ships.

There was the captain in the Whydah's
case, That was Sam Bellamy.

The captain is not the way that we think
of a captain in the military.

He had no special privileges,
the only time that he held absolute

authority was in battle,
because somebody needed to make decisions.

There was not time to discuss them.

There was the navigator,
which was somebody with good literacy

who was good at reading maps.

Navigation was,

of course, very rough and primitive
compared to what we're capable of now.

And the museum went into great detail
about how it worked.

I did not write that stuff down.

Go see the museum. Or, you know,
you could Google it.

There was the botswain or the “bosun”
who directed control of the sails

and rigging, kept track of the cargo
and anchors, controlled the armory,

occasionally meted out punishment
for violations of the ship's articles.

So this was a highly respected position
on the ship.

And the botswain on the Whydah was an
Irishman named Jeremiah Burke.

There was the surgeon
who did the medical procedures

that were available at the time,
which was really a lot of amputations.

And on the Whydah
the surgeon was a Scottish

fellow named James Ferguson,
and he was a Jacobite.

Do you know about the Jacobites?

There have something to do
with Christianity or, you know, Abraham

like religion?

Yes. They believed in the divine
right of kings.

It was an indigenous led political
movement in the Scottish Highlands.

They were saying,
not that monarchy- our monarchy.

And that was a great big no no.

And so they often turned to piracy
as political refugees,

many political refugees turned to piracy.

Then there was the quartermaster.

The quartermaster was arguably the most
important role on the pirate ship.

The quartermaster is second in command
from the captain,

and this person
represented the interests of the crew.

He settled disputes
and he distributed the loot.

This was a very highly respected position,
and the Whydah's quartermaster

was an Irishman named Richard Nolan.

So lots of Irishman, which was a big deal.

You couldn't really

you couldn't really achieve
like respected status in other professions

as an Irishman at this time,
which I think is a great example of how

whiteness is not necessarily a race,
but more of who's in the group?

Who's in the in group?

I mean, I would argue that

whiteness as a concept was constructed
in order to justify the slave trade.

Oh yeah, for sure.

And has evolved

over time to that to keep black people
at the bottom of the racial hierarchy.

Yeah.

And there were people

what we would consider
or what we would think of as white today

in general terms, who did not share -
They were a racialized minority.

Yeah, So life on a pirate ship,

each ship had its articles,
which was a code of conduct.

And when you signed on to them,
you signed away your citizenship

and rights in other countries,
and you gained your right to vote

on the pirate ship
and to receive your share of the loot.

The signing of the articles
was very ritualistic.

It was often held at night
by candlelight, picture

like a ritualized
swearing in at a frat or a secret society.

That was the vibe.

And pirates were indeed drunk a lot.

That mythology about pirates is accurate,
and they didn't only drink rum,

they drank whatever they could get
their hands I imagine a large part of

that was also due to necessity
being out on the ocean, where you're going

to get your uncontaminated water
that stays uncontaminated.

That, and also their morale was not high
a lot of the time.

It was very unhealthy.
People got a lot of scurvy.

They got a lot of tuberculosis.

Conditions were dirty, cold and wet.

And so pirates needed to keep up morale
by any means that were available to them.

If the pirate ship took another ship
that had a musician on it,

that person tended to be forced
to sign the articles at gunpoint

because they needed as many musicians
as they could get.

I'm loving here how each role that
you reveal of the pirate community

is just describing another member
of Luffy's crew in one piece.

Oh, is it really? It is.
Oh, that's so fun.

The navigator, the musician, the doctor.

Did they say anything about cooks?

No, not that I saw. Interesting.
Okay. Yeah.

They didn't really talk about what
the pirates ate or not that I saw.

I might have missed it.

So whereas on Navy ships,
officers slept in comfy cabins

while the crew slept below
deck in much less comfortable positions.

The first thing that pirates did
when they took a ship was level top deck,

and open up the interior of the ship
into just one big room

where everybody slept together.

No one had more comfort or privacy
than anyone else.

In fact, on many pirate

nobody could use a hammock unless
there was enough hammocks for everybody.

So this is like a motley crew of vicious
murderers, but preschool snack time rules.

If you didn't bring enough for everybody,
no hammock for you.

Which I mean, I think we all know that the
most pirate among us are preschoolers.

It's like a fun example of how

it is intrinsic to human nature,
both to be competitive

and possessive and violent,

and also to have a strong sense of justice

and be rather altruistic
and collaborative and cooperative.

So the Whydah had taken enough loot
that Sam Bellamy was ready to retire.

They were sailing back to the States where
it wasn't the states yet, but, you know.

And yeah, the Whydah sunk,
as my notes here say, the Whydah

sunk in a big ass storm
off the coast of Cape Cod in April 1715.

146 people were in the wreck
and 130 of them died.

16 were taken prisoner,
six were tried and hanged.

John Julian, the surviving crew member
who was black, was sold into slavery

at the time.

Pirate
hangings and trials were a big spectacle.

People loved stories about pirates
tearful repentance and their violent ends.

It was very sensationalized.

Pirate corpses would sometimes
be hanged in gibbets, which was like

a person shaped cage out on the docks.

They would preserve
the pirate corpses in tar,

make sure that they did
not get a proper burial,

because it was widely believed at the time

that if you got a proper burial,
that you would be able

to be ferried into the afterlife,
whereas if you were not ferried

then your soul would, you know, wander
until Judgment Davey Jones.

And that's the information
that I wanted to share with you today.

And so I guess what I'm curious about
after telling you all this is,

did any of it surprise you as

it surprised me the first time
that I went to this museum? No.

I feel like a lot of this.

And part of it was you discussing
some of this with me and,

like, bits and pieces
over the past couple of weeks.

Part of it is a little bit of,
like, rabbit holes that I've dove into,

into, like, pirate culture
through various popular media.

I think an interesting topic to discuss
that you brought up out of it, though,

would be how we maybe not so much in 2026,

but certainly, prior to like the 20 tens
conceptualized pirates.

And I say we as in American culture.

Yeah, I was surprised the first time

I went to this museum
by a lot of what I found out,

and it was mainly because my
my biggest frame of reference for pirates,

prior to my first visit to the Whydah
museum was Pirates of the Caribbean.

And I remember the romanticization
of pirates in that movie.

They were certainly portrayed
as rebellious as a motley crew.

But I also remember when the Keira
Knightley character was abducted

by the pirates.

She invoked this universal pirates code
in order to appeal to the captain,

who had his own luxurious private quarters
and had authority

to draw upon about what to do with her
that the rest of his crew did not share.

And so they were sort of presented
as a dark mirror to naval ship,

less polished, more creepy, more dirty,

but ultimately mirroring that hierarchy.

And it's interesting to me
that that's the idea

about how pirates organized themselves
that persisted,

when in fact, we know that that is not
how parrots organize themselves.

Their hierarchy was very flat,
very democratic.

The setup of the actual ship
was reflective of this flat hierarchy,

and I wonder if that was how people,
during the Golden Age of Piracy

imagined that pirates
organized themselves, or whether that's

like a more modern invention,
you know? Yeah.

I'm reminded of how,

like when Christians envision
a satanic church or a satanic church

service, it's like a creepy version

of a Catholic church service
instead of its own separate thing.

Yeah.

And I also wonder to what extent
that I'm sure piracy,

as we would look to in American eyes
and point to

and say that's piracy
in other cultures has also existed,

maybe not under the same term, obviously,
or under a slightly different

conceptualization, but effectively,
like this band of rogue

multicultural thieves, thieves
living on the sea or on land.

like Robin Hood's men. Yeah.

And I think another interesting thing
that I don't think

going through and comparing everything
that you've talked

about
to like all of the details in one piece,

would be something that our listeners
would be particularly interested in.

But I do think an interesting topic
that has come up recently in the One

Piece community, and that's
kind of spilled over into more popular

mass media, is this discussion over
is One piece political?

again, I'm kind of going in assuming
that most people are probably not

super familiar with one piece,
especially the entirety of the story.

But it's an anime about pirates
and and it's huge.

It's huge and it's storytelling.

It's long in it's storytelling,
and it also captures

this more arguably realistic
portrayal of pirates.

I mean, to the degree that in Taiwan,

the one piece flag has become
a symbol of the movement for democracy.

Yeah.

I mean, it's appeared
other places as well,

like at the No King's March,
where we went to in New York, remember?

I forgot about that. Yeah.

So I think the question of
is one piece political?

I mean,

just demonstrably in terms of the evidence
available to us, the answer is yes.

Yeah.

But is the text of One piece political?

Yeah.

I think that One Piece is creator,
whether he would

call it himself a leftist or not,
certainly sympathizes

and is inspired by a lot of leftist
principles, leftist ideals.

And I think those ideals, again,

also fit in with this conception of piracy
that we've talked about today.

That is maybe not what the general public
at large would think of pirates as.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that they were, in fact,
as in mythologizing

pirates were a very masculine bunch.

It was overwhelmingly men,
although there were female pirates.

And my dad gifted me a book about them.

Maybe I'll read it
and we'll do another episode.

Yeah. Pirates part

two. 2 Pirates 2 Furious.

2 Pirates 2 feminine.

Yeah, but My impulse.

You know, when I learn about a movement
that existed in history

that was far more egalitarian
than I was led to believe and far more,

you know, rebellious and countercultural
is to romanticize it and idealize it.

And I think that that is a problematic
impulse when it comes to a lot of things,

including piracy. Right?

Because they were they were violent.

They were murderous.

It would be a mistake to look upon them
as, you know, an example of a moral ideal.

Yeah.

And it would also be a mistake
to make a moral judgment of pirates

more harshly
than that of the British Royal Navy

or other colonialist powers
during this time, or of the slave trade,

and it does inspire hope

and admiration to hear about people

organizing themselves

democratically in an egalitarian way,
with such great solidarity,

when the rest of the world was so much
none of those things.

was so very hierarchical
and marked by social division.

People are capable of coming up with
something very, very different from that.

Yeah.

And it's I think the other
interesting thing about all that is why

we have these conceptions of pirates

and other topics that don't reflect,

you know, like you
said, you find it interesting

and you begin to romanticize which, okay,
maybe that's taking it a bit too far.

But then I think part of that
original spark that you found interesting

was like, wow, this thing that I thought
was one thing was actually a lot more

aligned with my principles and values
than I would have thought.

And why is that the case?
Why have we been?

I mean, not
I'm not trying to be conspiratorial,

but like in a certain sense,
why have we been told otherwise?

Yeah, it's interesting

that we have been told otherwise
in a way that still romanticizes pirates.

Yeah.

You know,

years later, we romanticize pirates,
but we've erased everything about them.

That, to me, seems worth romanticizing.

Well, we've romanticized what I think.

And I say we
I think the American culture and media,

yes, has a romanticized
I think their freedom because.

Yes, yes, Romanticized their freedom
and their rebellion,

but erased the solidarity, the democracy,

the anti hierarchical social organization
and the multiculturalism.

Yeah.

Which I think is very telling
of our interpretation of it.

Yeah.

And it's also like to go back
to the conversation

that we were having earlier
about the anti-hero.

It's like it's a similar vibe of like,
we're going to romanticize this figure

for the esthetic of rebellion,
but erase any specificity about like,

what we imagine him
to be rebelling against.

So I'm so glad that the Whydah museum
exists.

I'm so glad that it's vibey and fun,
and that it's also like

DEI propaganda that would never be funded
by the federal government.

I'm not glad that it would never be funded
by the federal government.

I would like to get back to a time
when the government would fund wonderful

education, educational institutions
like the Whydah museum.

But, you know, I'm glad that it stands
in its principles and tells the truth,

Because the truth is so fascinating
and so complex.

Yeah.

And arguably not

what we've grown up
to understand it to be.

Yo ho ho.

So how are we going to

idealize pirates and

thus love better in our society?

What aspects of piracy
can we take into our.

We should loot and plunder
with swords and lob off people's limbs.

Well,

I mean, up until a certain point,
I was with you in

that you're not a fan of the limb
lobbing off, but you are

a fan of the looting and plundering.

Yeah, I mean, look at a movie
like I love boosters.

that was fun.

It clearly portrays
something that in the mass

media is vaillianized as corrupt,

greedy individuals trying to steal off

hardworking Americans
as something that is, in fact,

a way of life for some people
and how they make their living.

Yeah, but I think I love boosters
is a great segue, actually,

because it portrays that in the context of
I love boosters.

The Robin Hood
mentality is a starting point,

and spoilers up ahead for I Love Boosters,
but it will not shock you.

The the end point is organizing and worker
solidarity

organizing formally against the owners
of the means of production.

And I think that's the limitation
of romanticizing piracy.

I like the idea of taking slave ships
and naval ships

and disrupting those, like,
very oppressive systems.

But the end to
that was simply to take the loot.

Yeah. Which, no qualms. Get your bag.

But the end goal is not to dismantle
the oppressive system.

It is to disrupt it, perhaps,
and but mainly to profit from it.

Yeah.

And that's that's the limitation there
that Boots Riley

so beautifully takes us
far past in his stories.

I think another angle
from which to understand piracy

was just how very limited people's life
choices were in that era in history,

and understanding
why people make the choices

that they make based on, like a realistic
and holistic understanding

of what
the spheres of reality were at the time.

So how are you going
to use this conversation

and what you learned in it
to act more loving in society?

That's a good question.

I think I am going to go to the Whydah
Museum.

Yeah.

And learn more about pirates.

And I would love to learn more about some

women pirates
and to discuss that with you.

I have a Book about it on the bookshelf
right now.

Maybe we should read that for our next
book.

Maybe.

I feel like I come back to curiousity
a lot.

But, you know, getting curious about what
stories we like to tell about real people

who really existed and suffered
and hoped and and connected

with each other and tried getting curious
about what their lived realities

were and, and understanding
that ideas that seem

so very modern

and evolved to me
like flat social hierarchies

and one person, one vote,
and not recognizing the authority

of a nation that the modern world
did not invent these ideas

that people have been resisting
and organizing themselves

in very different ways
for a very long time.

Yeah, I love you.

I love you, too.

Yo ho ho. Let's eat some chili.

Yeah.

I hope it's been chili-fied. Hell, yeah.