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Welcome to Founded On Purpose, the podcast where business meets impact. Hosted by Kt McBratney of Renew VC, each episode features founders, investors, and ecosystem builders answering the same set of questions. While the questions stay the same, the insights and conversations are always unique and thought-provoking. Join us to explore how these innovators are aligning profit with purpose.
Kt McBratney: [00:00:00] Welcome to Founded on Purpose. I'm your host, Kt McBratney. Each episode, we welcome a founder, a funder, or an ecosystem builder to answer the same set of eight questions. And as you know, on this show, while the questions are the same, the conversations and perspectives that they unlock are wildly different and special.
And today I'm excited to talk with Mallory Contois, a proud generalist, community builder, operator, investor, and advisor who. Too many things. A few hats. Uh, she leads community at Mercury and also is the founder of the Old Girls Club, a virtual community for women and non binary people who work in male dominated fields.
Mallory, welcome to the show!
Mallory Contois: Hey, thank you for having me. You have such a good podcast voice.
Kt McBratney: Thank you. Uh, I will credit that to journalism school and say it did something.
Mallory Contois: Amazing.
Kt McBratney: Um, you clearly got the memo about the Chambray shirt today. So for those of you who are missing out [00:01:00] on video, we accidentally are matching and it's kind of perfect, especially because I'm talking to somebody who cares as deeply about community and authenticity as I do and is not afraid of a yes and for all of her interests.
Mallory, I'm glad you're here. I'm super excited to peel back the curtain and dive in.
Mallory Contois: Awesome. I'm excit ed too. Thanks for having me.
Kt McBratney: All right. So for the first question, we're going to start at the beginning in one word. What is your purpose?
Mallory Contois: Hmm I think listing. Like, I feel Like, and that's developed a lot for me over many years, and it, I would have probably answered impact for a while.
And I think that impact just is too general, like, I think that impact is a category of purpie. Purposes. Purpie.
Kt McBratney: I like purpie. I like purpie.
Mallory Contois: Um, you know, you can have impact in so many different ways, and I think [00:02:00] for me over the years, the sort of like common thread has become that I get, um, I am simultaneously excellent at, and I get a lot of fulfillment out of lifting other people up, and, um, like helping them to realize what they're capable of, and that comes in like all kinds of forms for me through teaching, through building community, through some of the work that I do, but, um, yeah.
I think I'll go with that. That's the first time I've, I've chosen that word, but we'll, we'll go with it.
Kt McBratney: I love it. And I love how, like, you've named that it evolves, right? Like, as I get this privilege of getting to hear everyone talk about their purpose, I'm like, mine has changed too over time. And I think, I don't know, do you think that that's just like naturally how yours has evolved from something more, I guess you could say like broad in general, like impact into something more specific.
And I would also say like, lifting is active. Like it's not, you can't, you don't, you have to do it.
Mallory Contois: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think I'm a huge believer in like seasons of life and in [00:03:00] change and evolution and I have gone through many many a season personally And I think with each season Your purpose like there is a there's definitely like a long term vision for your purpose of like making sure that you're Aligned with your values and like leaving the type of impact on the world that you want and that kind of thing But I also think there's like seasonal purpose to have like right now That thing because you want to align your purpose to the tools that you have right because otherwise you're gonna be banging your head against the wall so like I think there's, there's a couple different types of purposes that I, I keep in mind and the broad one is always like, is impact for sure.
Um, after having cancer, that became way more important to me than it was before. Um, just because when you die, that's what you leave. Um, and I faced that at 25 and didn't feel like I had like, Um, was leaving really anything super productive behind, um, and so that, that [00:04:00] impact or that focus on impact happened then, but the flavor of impact or like the, um, methodology of that has definitely shifted over the years and I'm sure will continue to shift forever.
Kt McBratney: And that's actually a really lovely segue into the second question, which you did not review these in advance, so, um, I love it when serendipity happens. It might, I have, I have a strong feeling this is going to align with those purpose, with that purpose. What was your most recent win? And it can be personal, professional, a little bit of both, but like, however you define like a success that you've recently had.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. Um, I think for me, my, a recent sort of personal win was that I have transitioned my headspace around OGC, around the old girls club. Mm hmm. Um, which I had been kind of in like an internal fight about for a, for a long time. So I started it two and a half years ago, and I had always kind of categorized it for myself as a hobby or like a [00:05:00] passion project.
Something that, um, you know, you sort, you sort of like place activities and ways of using your time and things into like mental models. And it was always a hobby. It was a low priority. It was something that I loved, but like, you know, when I got time for it, And just in the last couple of months, I've really been like, it's something that I really care about and I'm really proud of and I need to treat it like what it is, which is a business.
And it's a business that I've built and it's a business that I want to see grow and succeed and have the impact that, uh, I care about it having. And so I actually brought on my first, um, part time hire for it, which was a really big deal for me. Yeah. Cause I've been doing everything alone up until now, which do not recommend.
Kt McBratney: And also, like, congrats on getting that far, doing it all yourself, as somebody who is guilty of like, it's fine, it's fine, I can do it, syndrome, I'll figure it out. Um, and also congrats on bringing on a team. That's like a huge milestone, even though like it, I think on the [00:06:00] service level, like compared to other projects and things you've, you've run, like people might go like, Oh yeah, you hire somebody part time.
And that absolutely minimizes like that shift, right? Like the internal shift that you talk about, that's, that's an outcome and it's amazing to grow the team and be intentional about it, which as you know, someone who's, who knows OGC, I know you are. But the internal shift is like super powerful and nothing happens without that.
And it's something that, you know, I've, I think about a lot and I try to talk about especially when I work with founders is this idea that like so much of not just the journey, but so much of the actual milestones and like the big turning points, no one else sees because they're internal. Like, and nothing happens without it.
It's like this mindset.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. And it's also, I mean, not only is it that mindset and that internal shift, it's also just hard to like give any, any of it up, right? Or to like trust other people with your baby, especially something that you've labeled a passion project or labeled a hobby. Um, or labeled something that was [00:07:00] like so personal, uh, should that shift from like, Oh, this is a personal thing of mine to this is a business that I need to make sure is taken care of, um, is definitely a mental, a mental shift, but it's been really great.
So exciting.
Kt McBratney: I mean, you work across so many different spheres, right? And they're united by your purpose. I can see that now that you've. Um, shared that word question three is about the single biggest missed opportunity in your field. And perhaps it might help first to set some context on how you would even define what your field of work is knowing that like work is both yes, what we do for a paycheck, and also how we spend our time and energy on on this planet.
So like, maybe start there, if you can anchor us and how you even define the field or fields.
Mallory Contois: Yeah.
Kt McBratney: Of Mallory.
Mallory Contois: Yeah, so it's actually I think Okay, I just went through like multiple phases in my brain as you were asking, and I was like, am I allowed to swear on this [00:08:00] podcast or should I? Okay, I was like, oh shit, like I, I don't even know how I'm going to answer this question.
It's a question I kind of avoid because I am in this like super transitional moment where I'm like doing a bunch of different things and it's very hard to pick a category or pick like a description, but there is one thing that, um, has always kind of united the things that I've done even since the beginning of my career, and I think it still is that, which is, um, Moving away actually from like the purpose piece, cause I think that took me longer to find.
Um, I would say my field is actually in like product life growth and, um, is really in thinking about like product market fit and like really finding that or those organic growth loops for products and experiences and things like that. Um, the types of products and experiences that I've focused on has changed over time where now I'm spending much more time in like community as a product and connection as a product.
I still view it from a product building [00:09:00] lens. And so I think to your question, um, I think that community and like marketing and go to market and that sort of thing and product often sit like this and like, there's actually a lot of space between them, whether it's how people think about it or literally in like org design.
Um, and for me, building marketing loops with a product lens has been I think the reason that I am better than a lot of people at it, like I think that it's, it's a lens that is unique and it stands out because when people join OGC or they join a program that I built from the bottom up, it's a well designed user experience and it's really thoughtful.
But that even goes to like, I have a wedding coming up in a couple of weeks and like, Joe thinks I'm, my fiance is like, you're crazy because every, he doesn't actually call me crazy for the record, but, um, Every moment, I'm like, okay, this is another step in the user experience during the day. Like, [00:10:00] are they feeling we're meeting?
Like, do they have the tools that they need? And he's like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, we have to build this. Like an onboarding experience. Like, does everyone have a place to put their coat? Do they know what button they're supposed to click next? It's just been a lens that was drilled into me really early, but it's, it's really a lens of empathy, you know, it's a lens of putting yourself in user's shoes and understanding how they're going to approach something.
So I think my field would be go to market a product like growth, organic growth. Um, and the biggest missed opportunity there is sort of that like, um, marriage of the like human psychology piece and the like connection and marketing piece and the product piece. Yeah.
Kt McBratney: I want to like throw something across the room in such agreement with that.
Like I violently agree with everything you're saying and not just because of my background, um, which is, you know, there are certainly parallels. And I'm a staunch believer in community led growth and, and, [00:11:00] um, leading with empathy and also organic growth. Like you can't just throw ads at everything, right?
And anyway, that's a whole nother, that's a whole nother topic for a whole nother pod.
Mallory Contois: But I think to that point, like people, the word community has also, I mean, like, I guess if you wanted to erase everything we just said and say my field is community, I think the biggest missed opportunity is that people really sort of.
Um, ignore the importance or undercut the, the value of community. I think it got a bit of a bad rap during the like, web three bubble. And so community means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And there were a lot of badly designed communities that were built. Not even designed at all.
We're not designed at all. And it was sort of co opted as this term that like meant this thing. But the reality is, is that community is just human connection and human psychology and like getting people to talk to each other about things. And hopefully they're talking to each other about the thing that you want them to be talking about, you know?
And, and that's, that's really all it is. So it always is upsetting to [00:12:00] me when someone is like, sometimes there's an interpretation that I almost like, uh, take a, took a step backwards in my career by going from product to community. But the reality is, is that I'm still doing product. It's just with a community focus.
Kt McBratney: A hundred percent. And, and I've been kicking around this term to, to describe that phenomenon that we've seen over the past few years, this pattern of like they're hollow communities or audience mislabeled or miss, miss, um, categorized as community.
Mallory Contois: Or just sales funnels.
Kt McBratney: Exactly. I'm like, that's community by convenience because you thought that this was a convenient tactic and yet like community is.
Complicated because humans are complicated. And that doesn't mean that there aren't people who are amazing at it and everything is like a super heavy lift or requires, you know, super complex engineering and design, not always, sometimes it's simple because it can be simple, but humans aren't simple. And when you're building and growing through human connection, it can be hard to [00:13:00] quantify.
And also it's the thing that once you know, it's there, it's there. And then. To your point, like, I think that when the, the, um, the people who thought that community was like a shortcut, once they realized it and they peaced out, everyone, you know, who built true community was left holding the bag in a way, and it's been really interesting to see, you know, across 2024, how Um, that field and I think we're both like using that loosely because it touches everything, right?
It touches product. Like I run community at a, at a venture firm, like for some people that means one thing for us, it's, it's the connective tissue of what we're building. Um, there's operations, there's strategy, there's so many things. And um, I just think it's going to be really interesting to see what happens in the next year around those two missed opportunities because they are interconnected.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. Community also takes time is the other thing where like. It's actually, I, I was talking to someone the other day. It's almost like it's the new brand marketing where like a few [00:14:00] years ago, it was like, Oh, we can't quantify like the impact of the brand. And like, now that technology has gotten a little bit better.
That measurement has gotten a little bit better. There's like enough case studies where it's like, Oh yeah, if you invest in brands, like there's the famous Airbnb one, that sort of thing. Uh, but now community is that thing where like I have, I had to get buy in at Mercury, you know, and like, I've always have to get buy in from leadership.
wherever I am to say like, Hey, you got to give me a year. Like this takes time. It's not something you can turn on and have it be successful long term. It's something that is organic. And it really does have to like have these fundamentals at its base and those things take time. And so I think that's another reason why.
Often you see badly built communities because people are impatient or they need the win quickly or they need to, like, push those metrics more quickly than it.
Kt McBratney: Yes. Like, just, just full stop. Yes. I'm like, uh huh. Uh huh. Yeah. I'll just replay that back for people sometimes when they're like, Hey, somebody wants me to do this in 30 days.
I'll be like, Hey. No, listen, listen to this, listen to this, we got some, some, [00:15:00] some, uh, real truth for you. Clearly we agree on a lot of things and you've demonstrated traction and growth across your career for Mercury, for Old Girls Club, for all of kind of the things that you've touched. With a track record of being right and having successes, when was the last time you were wrong?
Mallory Contois: Let's see. Um, I mean, I'm wrong all the time, first of all. But, uh, I'm trying to think of a significant one or an interesting one. Um, there's probably a couple of examples. So, one would be, I tried something with Old Girls Club last year where, um, it seemed like people want, you know, we're in sort of this growth pattern where, you know, The incentive structure of growing a community is kind of inversely related to the incentive structure of making a community successful, where the bigger it gets, the less good it feels.
Um, and so I thought the solution was, oh, we need to like, [00:16:00] cut it up into a bunch of pieces and like give people smaller groups to connect with amidst the larger, the larger group. Um, And that just, like, didn't, I tried it three different ways and it didn't work any of the times. Um, one time I tried it just being like, here's a group of a hundred people, this is your, like, this is your cohort, this is your group.
And people were like, who are these people? Like, why do I care about these hundred people? And not, like, it's a, for anyone listening, it's an 1800 person community, just so you can have the, like, scale mentally. Um, it's not huge, but it's bigger than a room of 50 people. So. That didn't work. And then I tried contextual groups where like everyone had a shared context.
And that like, kind of, there were like bits that worked of that, but it wasn't enough to like sustain a model, um, over time where like, that might, that thing might be top of mind for a moment for somebody and then they were glad that they had that, but they still wanted the input of the larger group as well for those contextual [00:17:00] moments.
Um, and so anyway, like I tried a few different times. It just didn't work. It didn't, it didn't pick up. And in a community you can tell pretty, you probably know this. You can tell almost immediately when something was a bad idea.
Kt McBratney: And it's not like it caused harm though, like it wasn't a bad experience, it just didn't take off.
Mallory Contois: Right, and I've set a culture, I think, of experimentation, where like, everyone knows that I personally am like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I'm figuring this out with you all, and like, I rely on the input of the community, so people are very honest with me, which is amazing. Like, it's such a fast feedback loop, I just shut things down that aren't working.
Um, so that was one time that I was wrong. I'm still going to try again because I think that there is, I think there's an answer. Um, but I think And
also people were saying that they wanted something like that too, which says something. Like people don't always know like what they truly want.
Yeah. And
Kt McBratney: also if you're, if you're thinking community minded and have that curiosity and understand the psychology of it, it's that really tired but still true, I think it's a Henry Ford quote.
Like if I'd asked people what they [00:18:00] wanted, they would have said a faster horse. Yeah. Right? So like, you're trying to find the there there, and I believe you, I think it's there. It's just like, continuing to iterate and experiment and get that, that fast feedback loop is just like, uh, such a gift to be able to be like,
Mallory Contois: I'm so low ego about it too, where you have to be willing, like, I'm just willing to be wrong all the time.
And I'm willing to hear it from people because it's the greatest gift that people feel confident or comfortable enough to tell me like, Hey, this is just sucks. I'm like, okay, great. Like, Let's move on, you know, like I just after 15 years of building product. I have no, I have no emotions anymore. There, you just like I'm dead inside from the project world.
You to light stuff on fire that's not working, no matter how much effort and time and heart you put into it. But also, I've learned the lesson of like, don't put all of your effort and time and heart into something until you know it's working. So, I've gotten better at experimentation.
Kt McBratney: And also, like, with that, it's almost worse when somebody tells you something is working.
They're like, no, I love this, and you're like, I can also [00:19:00] tell you're I It's not. Right, like tell us. We want it to be good for you. If it's a shitty experiment, if it's like a bad experience, just share it. You can still be kind.
Mallory Contois: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's funny because a lot of times with the community, they'll be like, this is okay.
And then I'll be like, hey, can we open a call really quick? And like, once we're face to face, they're like, yeah, Like, it's all, I get that it feels weird to put that in writing. It's easier to kind of like chat about it. But, um, yeah. So, I mean, with OGC, I've been wrong a million times. And, um, it's really been about building a space with, or in like a relationship with my users that they are just infinitely kind of forgiving of that because the core is so good.
Um, and the experimentation actually feels like they're like along for the ride. And I think that that's always a really good strategy from a product perspective of if you can get your users to feel like they are part of the build and like part of creating the future of what you're doing. Like that's so [00:20:00] powerful.
And that's been the saving grace, I think, as we've, as we've built this.
Kt McBratney: No, I love it. I've always been on the side of build with, not for.
Mallory Contois: Totally.
Kt McBratney: Like you just, you just, you can't, like, it's just, you're making the job harder for everyone.
Mallory Contois: Yeah, it's just easier when you ask people, like it's, that's, that's another piece because I think the startup ecosystem Founders product people like we want to be right.
We want to be the one that knew, you know And like we want to be the one that was like I didn't even need anybody to tell me this I knew that this was gonna be a thing but like It takes you so much longer to find that thing than just being like, Hey, users, what do you want? You know? Um, but that does take a little bit of ego shifting over time, I think.
Kt McBratney: Speaking of ego, you keep setting me up. It's so lovely. Um, this is like, we're at the halfway point. We just passed question four. Nice.
Mallory Contois: I love like a mile marker. Good,
Kt McBratney: good, good. Good, good, good. I like to set expectations, right? It's part of the community experience.
Mallory Contois: Uh, it's really good user experience.
You're doing like a [00:21:00] progressive onboarding thing here. I love that.
Kt McBratney: I'm glad. Good validation. I will take that.
Mallory Contois: Yeah.
Kt McBratney: And speaking of like having low ego, of being willing to experiment, of being growth mindset focused. What is a hill you would die on? Like, what's a conviction or a belief that you just like, hold close so much that you will like, I will fight you and I will win because I know.
And it doesn't have to be serious. It can be silly or it can be both.
Mallory Contois: One would be, I think who you choose as a partner is like one of, like a life partner is one of the most significant business decisions you make in your entire life. Ooh, say more. I think that who you choose to spend so much of your time and energy and like emotional openness with can really determine what you are capable of and what you create the space for.
And what you go after, um, and there's, there's actually an OGC related [00:22:00] story here that I can tell where my fiance and I, uh, had been dating for, I think, three months, and I was home at my parents house in Connecticut, he was out in L. A., and, um, I had not started OGC yet, I, uh, we had just closed, I was the COO of a gaming company at the time, we had just closed a Series A, I was in that weird holiday time where like, you're full of cheese and like, you are like, what am I doing with my life?
Like why am I at my parents house in my childhood bedroom? Um, and I was, I was talking to some people and I was just like, man, that fundraise to like, I was like, as the COO, I was the one that was very behind the scenes, making sure all the data was getting done, you know, the whole thing. And I was frustrated and I had felt a type of way about how I had been treated during the process compared to my male co founder.
And, um, I mean, just rage posted on LinkedIn. I think you've maybe heard this story and I posted it on [00:23:00] LinkedIn and I was like, it is so unfair that women are expected to show up and know all the answers, but we're not allowed to ask any questions. And then I posted it and I was like, if you feel the same, I don't know.
I put up like a type form or something. And I went to bed anyway, long story short, wake up the next morning. I'm not like, It went like mini, not like viral, viral, but like viral enough where it's for someone who did not have an audience at the time. It was frightening. Um, and I was like, I don't know what I'm, what am I supposed to do?
I don't have time to like, like, who are all these people? Like, I can't like do anything about this. And I called Joe and I was like, I messed up. Like, I put this post up last night and I have all these people that are like agreeing with me and like, they want me to start something. And like, I don't have time, like, I don't, and he, and I'll never forget, he said, what is, Mallory, what is the worst thing that can happen?
And he was like, what, they're going to be like, man, that Mallory, she like tried to help women, you know, like. [00:24:00] You know, and he was like, just try it. And like, if it's some, if you end up being into it, then like, cool. That's a thing you can do. And if you're not into it, like you can shut it down. Like it doesn't, it's not, you're not like signing your life away to this thing.
And that's going back to my original statement. Like that is such a specific thing to be told. Like I, OGC honestly probably wouldn't exist without him. And not because he inspired it, not because he was part of building it or anything, but he simply gave me the permission in that moment to like. Do something I was uncomfortable with or do something that like, I didn't actually even know that I was like excited about yet.
And I just think that like, I've seen it go both ways in my own relationship. I was previously engaged and I called off a wedding and, um, that partner just wouldn't have been the right fit for me in terms of setting me up to like, I would be a totally different human being if I had married that person versus the person I'm marrying now.
And, um, I just think that that's something that people [00:25:00] don't. Uh, people are uncomfortable talking about relationships as a business decision. Obviously not only a business decision, but it really can impact how much money you make in your life. It can impact your career satisfaction. It can impact your ceiling.
It can impact how much time you spend like really chasing what you want to do or not. Like it's also, it doesn't have to, it can go both ways, you know, like maybe you want permission to do less and you need to find a partner that's cool with that. But, um, that's one that I feel
very strongly about.
Kt McBratney: I feel like that needs to just be like a mantra or like, I don't know, and that needs to go out places because I think, you know, like looking back, that definitely tracks to, to my situation.
Like I could have never been a founder if I would have, you know, I've been in a different relationship than with my spouse. I would possibly not have gone down this path into the venture world if, I remember, again, it's in one of those, and I never heard that story with the Joe piece, like, so in there.
Thank you for that. It [00:26:00] was good. Oh, I was like, what next? And what next? Um, so bonus points for excellent storytelling. But yeah, there was a moment in time I remember I was talking with Mark, our managing partner, and exploring different opportunities. I was like, man, I think they're really into something.
Like, this is interesting. It's, it's philosophically aligned. Like it's the kind of, it aligns with my purpose, all of this. It's some of my skill sets and some things that I want to do. And I was like, I don't know. I don't pattern match to like X, Y, Z, and I never thought of myself doing. Being like a general partner at a VC fund like I've never thought about it before because I don't have that linear Finance background, etc.
Right? He was just like very similar He was like, yeah, but you could also be really really good at it and it was just like that casual statement and I was like And then they never think about it again and you think about it for the rest of your life And I'm like you and to their credit like support is amazing.
It's a gift. It's like such a Uh And that kind of casual, like, easy communication that is, [00:27:00] unlocks this, like, massive possibility is like so special. And at the same time, like, they didn't, they didn't do anything profound, but they had the key because we had a good relationship.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. And it's also, it's not just, I mean, I use the example of your, like, life partner as that choice because I think it is.
The big, one of the biggest commitments, especially if you choose to get married, like, that's a big, like, that's a big thing, but like, it does go for friends, it does go for your circle in general, like, who you surround yourself with, and I know there's like, whatever the thread boy stuff of like, who, the five people you surround yourself with are like, you know, whatever.
But it's, it's not, not true. You know, like those people are going to be you have those casual conversations with who are going to be like, you want the ones that are like, you can do that or like, Hey, you're saying you're going to do something. And like, I've never known you. To like be that type of person and like that kind of checking is really important too.
So it's not always about empowerment. Sometimes it's about like, hey, are you sure? You know, and like having that [00:28:00] around with people who really know you and trust and that you trust is super important too, I think.
Kt McBratney: So we've talked a lot about work, big decisions. We've, we've, we've covered a lot of ground. I love the holiday cheese.
Mallory Contois: I'm sorry, my ADHD is showing, I think.
Kt McBratney: No, this is, this is my jam. This is why, this is why I was like, hey fellas, this is how I want to propose the format of this podcast. And they. Had the sense or the lack thereof to just be like, yeah, go wild. Do your thing. Yeah. Um, Big believers in the possibilities and the, and the value of play, right?
And as we even covered in the intro, and we've covered even more in specifics here, you're doing a lot of things. I am. Also, you have a wedding coming up. So this will air on the other side. Two weddings coming up. All right. So you gotta. Both of them are mine. To the same person. I mean, you're not breaking any laws.
Okay. So you've got two weddings coming up. You have your business, your job. Right? You've got all these things that you're going, [00:29:00] what does play look like for you? How do you play? Amidst all the to do's.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. No, it's such an important thing and like, again, having gone through cancer has helped me to like, really make sure I'm saving enough space for that.
Because like, you've seen it, like, nobody cares how many hours you worked or whatever. Like, you gotta enjoy life. Um, it's one of the reasons that Joe and I moved to San Fran er, moved to, oh my god, I don't know why I just said San Francisco, why we moved to New York, um, recently, we moved here a year and a half ago, because I really wanted to come back and like, have a ton of fun here, and like, Play for Us has always been amazing food, shows, he came up in the music industry, so he loves concerts, he loves sports, we're into different things, but we like going to things with each other that each other is into.
Um, and so I think really it's a lot of, we're, he's also a business owner so we're both very busy and so like a lot of play for me is spending time with him and doing cool things in the city and traveling and all of that. [00:30:00] Um, I have a Frenchie who's snoring very loudly behind me. I don't know if you can hear him, but he's coming up on 10.
So I try to spend as much time with him as I can too. Um, and then I actually get out to my parents a lot more than I used to now and they live on this like beautiful property in Connecticut in the woods and play for me sometimes means just silence and like rest, like rest and play to me a kind of like ebb and flow together because I think they're both restorative and you just need different types of restoration at different times.
And for me, so much of that at my parents house is the like. Just like, like listen to the cicadas and don't speak. Um, and that's a little bit of, of that as well for me.
Kt McBratney: No one talk to me. I'm looking at fireflies and eating cheese.
Mallory Contois: So much cheese.
Kt McBratney: That might be a direct quote from part of my summer.
Mallory Contois: Yeah, perfect.
Kt McBratney: And my family was like, absolutely. We love that for you. We'll be back.
Mallory Contois: I'm also an only child. So my [00:31:00] parents are like, whatever you, whatever your vibe is right now, we're good with as long as you're here in our house, there has to be,
Kt McBratney: Oh, I'm like so many questions here. Colliding at once, brain faster than mouth.
We know that there's a lot of well intentioned people that want to help grow businesses, grow careers, support people personally. And there's also times that we ask for advice. So whether it's, whether it's solicited or not, how do you know what advice to take and what to just like say thank you and move on from, like, how do you navigate that?
Mallory Contois: Yeah, um, I think that's a really, um, it's a hard one because I think it changes as you get older, where you just, the more you know, the less you need, right, the more, when you're young, you need all the advice or you grab on to all of the advice, whereas as you get older, you're like, I know, I know how little everyone knows around me, you know, like the curtain kind of gets pulled back where you're like, nobody, the number of [00:32:00] people that I really would like blindly take advice from might be zero, like, I'm not actually sure there's anyone, you know, like I just think the human experience and like every business is different.
Every human is different. There's so much context. Like I have been having such a hard time with social media lately, especially the LinkedIn's of the world and places at Twitter. But like, like, I just don't need like who gets off on giving this like unsolicited broad stroke advice like what they're not helping anybody in my opinion.
Um, so anyway, back to your original question. Um, I don't often take Advice, I would say I take, um, input as like information and then I usually combine a bunch of those. So if I'm getting advice from one person, I'm always going to go ask the same question to like four or five other people that I trust.
Um, cause I've trust issues, maybe, I don't know. But, um, I do think that advice is tough because people just are never going to [00:33:00] know every piece of context that you're working with. They don't know every piece of how the business came from where it was to where it is. Um, they don't know what my personal motivations are, or like what I want out of the experience, because it's not always just about building the biggest business.
Um, sometimes it's about building a very specific type of business, or a feel, or you know, whatever it is. Um, so yeah, I, I'd say I actually don't think about the word advice very often. I think I think of it more as like, you know, Opinions or perspectives, and I treat them as opinions or perspectives and, and that's kind of that.
Although I do, I'll call my dad for advice sometimes for like, I don't know, car insurance. That I take.
Kt McBratney: I feel like that's what, that's what dads are there for and happy to, happy to provide it. I think I, I called my dad and asked him something about the furnace the other day. I'm 42 years old, I perfectly, I know what to do, and I also have [00:34:00] the entire internet at my fingertips.
And also, it just feels nice sometimes to,
Mallory Contois: It's nice to call your dad!, But you know, your dad loves it when you call him to ask for the help, so,
Kt McBratney: Of course he did, so, and I liked it too, so like, I love it, and I, the, the reframing of advice more as input and perspectives also centers putting you in, back in the driver's seat, like it's your decision to make, you however you see fit.
So like it's not just point blank taking something and implementing it.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. Well, I also think it's a reminder that there is context come with the person who's giving you the advice too. So like I always tell particularly founders, but really, or like people early in their careers, when you're getting advice or a perspective from someone, um, do the work either ahead of time or after to identify like why that might be their perspective and then try to marry like, Is that similar to my context, or are they coming from a very different place from me?
Which, there's nothing wrong with that, but it can help you [00:35:00] avoid some of the potholes of like, well they said this was gonna work and then it didn't. And then you're like, oh, it's because it was actually a totally different situation, but like, I, I didn't spend the time, you know.
Kt McBratney: Alright, somehow we have gotten all the way to the end.
We are at question eight. We're gonna land the plane. I don't know. Sometimes they're baseball metaphors. Sometimes, I guess, we're doing travel metaphors today.
Mallory Contois: I love, I love saying land a plane. I think it's such a nice, like, you know, everybody claps.
Yeah.
Kt McBratney: Do people still clap often?
Mallory Contois: Uh, not often, but it has, I would say one out of five landings I hear claps.
Kt McBratney: Yeah, I feel like when I fly in and out of the Midwest, it's more common.
Mallory Contois: I was gonna say, it totally depends where you're flying in and out of, too.
Kt McBratney: And if there's like a bunch of turbulence, but everybody knows it's fine, but it's almost like the excitement of like, this could have gone wrong even though we were perfectly safe.
Let's applaud.
Mallory Contois: That's a different clap, I think. That's a clap of relief, or of like, performance acknowledgement, which we don't want to be in that situation with that [00:36:00] clap. But like, the clap when you land in like, Orlando, Florida, because everyone's going to Disney is different, I think.
Kt McBratney: Agree.
Mallory Contois: And then, like, if anybody tries to clap when they land in New York City, like, that's also a very different vibe where everyone is like, what are you doing?
Kt McBratney: I have never experienced that, and I think as somebody who's never lived in New York, I would just look for cameras, like it's some kind of prank.
Mallory Contois: Yeah, no, it never catches on.
Kt McBratney: Okay. We're landing the plane. We're landing the plane. What is the most challenging thing about your job or your work? What is just like the absolute best thing that when you get to do it, it fills your cups for days?
Mallory Contois: Yeah. Um, the most challenging thing I think is, um, as long as I've been doing this for, it is still a very active decision to remove my biases from decisions, like, or opinions. Like it's, you, your default is always, well, like, how would I feel? What would I think? What, what would my [00:37:00] preference be? And I think it's always really hard to be like, okay, maybe that might not actually matter at all.
Like, cause like. For example, with OGC, I know everything there is to know about my business, right? But for a new member who joins the community, and this is the same for Mercury, where like, I know how everything on my team and all the programs we've built started, and like, contacts and everything, but like, this founder who's showing up for the first time, and is like, why is a bank telling me they're gonna help me?
Like, I feel like almost offended, right? When they ask that question, I'm like, well, obviously based on our work for the past two years, like you should know, you know, but like, that's an insane thing to assume that someone would know. And so I think always, and this is probably the kind of thing that's like true for almost every job, but, um, I think the hardest thing, especially when you're building for humans and building human experiences and, and that sort of thing is like to not use yourself as the case study.
[00:38:00] Um, and then the. The absolute best thing is when something that I create, like, really makes a meaningful positive difference in, in other people's lives. And that's really special because I haven't gotten, like, that's been kind of a uniquely OGC thing for me, where building software, like, isn't always, you're like, You're creating delight, which is really special.
And I actually never like to minimize the importance of delight in people's lives for those listening. I was on the early team at Pinterest, um, and, uh, also at Cameo. So I've done a lot of building of like small, delightful consumer moments in software. And I continue to believe that that was also very important.
Um, however, actually like watching people in the community, Thank you. Get jobs after being laid off and looking for a year or [00:39:00] starting businesses together or saying that they feel just feel like the community was able to pull them out of a place of Hopelessness or of being alone and you know, we're going through a lot of really complicated times in the world and I think that there is this sort of nostalgic like poor heartwarming thing about people You Like just helping other people and something good happening out of it.
And it feels so, it seems so simple, but watching it play out in front of you because of something that you did two and a half years ago, eating cheese at your parents house is like, I feel very, very, very lucky every day to be able to, to do that and to witness it. Um, but that's true at, you know, in my role at Mercury as well, like the idea of the fact that we're able to help founders and not charge them for services that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford or.
Um, that we're trying to make, you know, sort of the ins and outs of fundraising a lot more accessible to [00:40:00] underrepresented groups who don't normally get the same access to information and that kind of thing. Like, all of that is just the best. Like how lucky am I that I get to spend my time and get paid to like use companies resources to do that?
Like crazy.
Kt McBratney: There's nothing like it. There's no feeling like it.
Mallory Contois: Yeah. And especially when you're working with builders and creative people and people that also want to create. It's this like amazing butterfly effect of like, yes, I want to help you create amazing things. Like, it's just so, it's a, we're so special or sorry, we're so lucky in this ecosystem.
It is such a special thing to be able to support the like kind of crazy minds of founders and entrepreneurs and creatives and um, yeah, we're just very lucky.
Kt McBratney: And unintentionally. When we landed the plane, you brought us full circle. We were on a circuitous path anyway, because you brought us back to that feeling of lifting.
Mallory Contois: Yes, absolutely.
Kt McBratney: It all comes back down to your purpose.
Mallory Contois: Oh, it [00:41:00] does. It really does. And I think that's like, you know, that's so cool when you get to be like, you know, I'm like the work I'm doing is aligned with the stuff I care about. And like, people know me for that too. That's been a new thing for me in the last year or two, as I've done more work on content and stuff like that.
Like. Being able to align when I meet someone for the first time and they're like, oh my god, your work on Doing these things is so cool Versus me having to be like, oh, this is what I care about like change my life So amazing that people already know those things about me and we can dive like another step and deeper together.
It's great
Kt McBratney: It's the dream. It's the dream. Oh, thank you so much for being here and sharing it I know everyone's time is is precious and valuable and I know so many people are going to See themselves, see possibilities and feel lifted just by hearing your perspectives on this. So
Mallory Contois: I am that was great I feel lifted.
Kt McBratney: I mean, it's true you did. Hey, I just I just named it You did that you did the work of taking us there. Perfect. So everyone, please applaud [00:42:00] at the plane. We did it. Thank you, Mallory
Mallory Contois: Thank you. This is awesome