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Conversations from the Hype Network; Business innovation, technology, and current events from a faith-filled perspective.
Ps Vance: So we're in season
two of the Hype Pod, slim
Ps Adam: back version today, and
the partners are back, we are back.
Everybody left us.
Uh, wait, where is Arun?
Where is Arun?
It's probably either a fire he's
putting out or, um, he's on an
offsite, you know, somewhere,
probably Ibiza or something like that.
Um, or how come
Ps Vance: crypto is either you're
in Ibiza or you're fighting a fire?
Like crypto is so extreme.
Ps Adam: It's either paradise
or pain one of the two
Ps Vance: all right, what's our
what's our view really quick just
for you know It seems like every
hype session we have it's on web3.
Yeah, I feel like we're still
trying to manifest it a little bit
What's your current take on crypto?
Ps Adam: You are very I would put you
probably in the bullish category of
crypto Am I saying that correctly?
Are you hesitant now?
Ps Vance: I I have always, I think
specifically been a believer in Bitcoin.
Okay.
Yes.
Right.
I think Bitcoin, I think I've
always been skeptical of definitely
the alt coins and meme coins,
things like that in its heyday.
It seemed kind of fun, but
I've, I've never, I have under 1
percent of my net worth in crypto.
I'm not even that.
Right.
Even in Bitcoin.
Right.
So I have a little bit in Bitcoin.
Um, again, I don't
understand it well enough.
I just know that if all the big
banks, if ETFs are including
Bitcoin, it's probably here to stay.
Right.
Uh, I'm still not sure on
kind of the rest of it.
Ps Adam: Right.
I think that proves my point.
I think if you got into crypto,
your introduction was Bitcoin.
You are, you are bullish.
You're excited.
You, you have a great affinity to it.
True.
I think if you bought Dogecoin or maybe
like a, a alt coin, you're burned.
You're burned.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think my whole portfolio of
crypto is so in the negative Oh no.
that I'm like, you got burned.
I, yeah, I got misled.
I got misled, um, by Elon.
Thank you.
Um.
And, uh, you know, I think it's just
definitely put a sour taste in being
at all bullish on anything crypto.
Did you remain
Ps Vance: in Robinhood though, in
terms of managing, you know, any
kind of, uh, You do here and there.
Yeah.
I've even through right out of Robin hood.
Okay.
Personally, what are you doing?
Are you just doing kind of just just
fidelity, you know, those kinds of things.
Boring.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Back to boring stats.
Um, I actually feels the more boring it
is in investment, the more real it feels.
I don't know why, like the, the comic,
nice interface, uh, you know, even
the great user experience sometimes
feels a little bit skeptical.
That was too buttery.
That was too easy.
Ps Vance: That shouldn't be that easy
Ps Adam: to buy out.
I didn't need to Google
what that word meant.
Oh, that's so interesting.
It is, isn't it?
Like, I feel like that's kind
of where my focus is, but.
Um, because I approached crypto
the way I, I approach investments.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: I'm more of a long term investor.
There you go.
Ps Adam: I'm not a short, get
in, get out, you know, move
money around kind of investment.
I just don't have the bandwidth to watch.
Ps Vance: Right.
Ps Adam: I don't have the
bandwidth to keep up on it.
Did you feel like
Ps Vance: when you were picking
stocks and picking certain crypto,
you kind of open it up every day?
Oh, I did.
Yes.
And then you realize I just
don't have enough mind space.
Ps Adam: No, cause it was
actually driving my emotions.
I'm like, no, we're down.
I should have sold it.
And I could have made 4 cents.
You know what I mean?
Um, and I think that maybe that was
fun during the pandemic because there
wasn't a lot other things to do.
Yep.
And everyone was like, all of a sudden,
you know, had extra wealth to, to
spend, you know, you weren't going
on vacations, you weren't eating out.
So there was like a little bit more
bandwidth of finances to spend.
Um, and so everyone was, and that
drove the Robin Hood era, right?
The gamification of finance, right?
And let's be honest.
It was, yeah.
It was a fun kind of gambling experience
of, you know, make a little money here.
Oh no, I lost some here.
And it got really addictive.
Ps Vance: You think about,
um, actual wealth, right?
I do think that it's more connected
to this long term mindset.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Ps Vance: Uh, you know,
I was reminded about.
You know idea the other day where
people underestimate Or sorry people
overestimate what they could do in six
months, but they underestimate what they
can do in 10 years Yes, right Yeah, I
Ps Adam: mean, that's a one thing that i'm
really big on right now is if you follow
any trendy Like viral finance like advice.
It's going to be stop having
a starbucks a day, right?
And then you'll save three thousand
dollars this year Whoa Sure, but what's
going to move the needle is saving a
thousand dollars on insurance each month.
There it is.
Do you know what I mean?
Like sometimes we look at the, the
micro and we go, oh man, like I'm going
to make all these micro decisions.
There are some macro decisions and
it's the same with investing that
will actually change the long term
needle instead of playing like short
gains, little bits of improvement,
lock something in for long term.
Love it.
Let, let it build over a decade and
watch what the return will be then.
Ps Vance: So I want to talk about,
uh, long term mindset in a second,
but I want to pull this thread since
we're talking crypto, we're talking
finance app, uh, I'm personally,
uh, have become a FinTech nerd.
It's obviously.
What overflow is.
And so I've been in this space.
What are some, you know,
you talked about fidelity.
Are there any other, you
know, cards, finance apps?
Um, we're about to do a
series at Vive Church.
It makes sense.
So you're probably talking about,
you know, thinking about finance a
little bit more these days as well.
Is there any products in the market
finance wise that you've been like,
man, I really like that for my personal
finance, for how I think about money,
probably think about wealth building.
I really like that product
or that application.
Ps Adam: I have used a
couple of really good ones.
I've used everything from acorns
to stash, um, which is a probably
out of all of those things.
One of the better ones.
Um, I have, uh, definitely had my Robin
hood era and, uh, I only still have
that account because I'm, You know,
hoping that the crypto comes back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, it's only a loss if you sell.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, uh, long story short, I think,
uh, the, the tried and true of
Fidelity for me is just a, a really
great money management account.
You know, being able to
process those things.
I think on the.
I'm spending a little bit more notice
now on things like credit calmer.
Okay.
So credit calmer into it.
They've got like a really
good spend management tool.
Okay.
They import your credit, uh,
rating obviously every month.
They, they give you sight on that.
They give you tips on how you
can maximize credit, um, you
know, where you're excelling.
And it, it takes that whole
credit system of America.
Out of the invisible ambiguity.
Ps Vance: Breaks it down.
Ps Adam: And breaks it down
into, Oh, this is actually
Ps Vance: buildable.
And,
Ps Adam: uh, I think for me, um, what
I'm really focused on now is how do I
leverage, how do I leverage equities?
How do I leverage wealth?
Yeah.
Am I diversifying my portfolio
amongst, do I have securities?
Do I have equity that I'm, I'm
leveraging and, and what does
that look like in a long play?
Good.
Um, so I think sometimes the.
The short term or, or gamified, uh,
finance apps are maybe a fun entry
into the market, but then there
are some maturity apps that I think
are more of a mature mindset around
what it looks like to build wealth.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
I like it.
Yeah.
The older I get, I'm just
like, I like it boring.
I like a boring stuff,
especially in finance.
I like a spreadsheet, man.
Some of these, these
boring aspects of business.
I'm like loving.
Yeah.
Like what is that?
Where's that come from?
Um, you know, it comes from, I think
the transition of an era where in zero
interest rate environment, where It
was a bit easier, especially if you're
a startup founder to raise capital, to
raise off just hype and things like that.
That's gave rise to kind of the
Robin Hood era, I feel like, where
like money was just flowing back
and forth and things like that.
Nobody really cared about cash flows
and things like that at the time.
When in reality, if you look at
it from a longer term perspective,
That's never not been true.
Like cashflow has always been King.
Maybe for two years it wasn't, but like
in history of time, it's always like,
if you just think about business, it's
like, okay, explain business to a five
year old, Hey, you just want to make
more money than you spend and you spend,
it's like so obvious, but I feel like
Silicon Valley, you know, missed it for,
for a couple of years and it's gone back.
It's kind of reverting back to the mean.
Obviously there's a lot more value
now on cash flows on company's
ability to know how to be profitable.
Maybe you're not profitable yet, but you
know how to turn that on if you wanted to.
It's such a secret weapon and we've
been just laser focused on that,
you know, for about 18 months now.
And we're kind of in striking distance
for being able to do that at overflow
with still a good amount of runway.
And I love it.
Yeah.
And some of these things that
Our cash flowing are just good
sound decisions that we're making.
Okay.
Don't overhire.
Yes.
Ps Vance: Right.
No token players.
Everybody's got to be high ROI.
Everybody's got to be high leverage.
Everyone
Ps Adam: has to be
responsible for a number.
Ps Vance: Everybody's got
to be responsible for their
number, for their objective.
Um, and it's these things that
Oh, you know, don't just try
to chase all these sexy things.
Get focused.
Ps Adam: Okay.
So that right there, I think one
of the sermons I want to preach
in this, uh, series, it all makes
sense is, uh, wealth is not sexy.
And I say this because I want
to, what I've realized is.
Uh, a lot of wealthy people
don't see wealth as sexy.
Unwealthy people see it as sexy.
Now, the problem with that is you'll
go and spend money to look wealthy,
but you'll actually waste money
looking wealthy, buying brand name
things and, you know, these high
end kind of appearance of evil, but
that will be the very preventative
of you actually acquiring wealth.
And so in the same way, as you
just said, I kind of like boring.
Well, I like boring, but not clunky.
So I
Ps Adam: want my product to be smooth.
I want it to be secure and I
want it to be structured well,
but I don't need the flash.
I don't need the, don't waste the time
with it being like ads popping up and
these things, you know, I just want
it to be really reliable and I want
it to execute as seamless as possible.
Ps Vance: Yeah, that's so good.
So, so thinking about this idea
of longterm thinking, right.
Um, Where have you seen, obviously
we're 12 years into Vive,
specifically, what have you learned?
Where have you learned where maybe you
had been short sighted in some areas
that has solidified your conviction that,
Nope, you know what, every single thing
that has had enduring, Value at Vive or
any other endeavor that you've been a
part of has been because of long term
thinking like have you been able to?
Delineate that a bit better.
Ps Adam: I mean I could have a
long list of how many short sighted
In even in the business and in the
ministry side of building a church,
I think one of the big lessons
I'm learning now is everything
has to come back to principle one.
Everything has to come back to a
fundamental of what am I doing?
I'm building the kingdom of God.
Okay.
So I get the pleasure and the privilege.
Privilege is probably a better
word because I don't know how much
pleasure it is in there, but I feel
like the privilege of figuring out
the complexity of extending the
kingdom of God and expanding it.
And we get a very clear why.
Okay.
So we're coming up to
the, to a vision season.
What's going to be put before
people is a, is an audacious vision.
Okay.
That is going to cause
everyone to have to stretch.
Now, a question everyone should
ask is why, why, why should
we, why should we double down?
Give over and above stretching our
capacity to achieve this vision.
Come on because what if they just
like church the way it is Right.
What if it's sir suits them right
now as a family the stage they're in?
Why why do we need to yeah, okay,
cool So I need to give a really
clear why and the why is very simple.
It's the great commission
Ps Vance: good
Ps Adam: Expand this thing
go in the world stretch.
Don't just there's nothing in the bible
You won't find any mandate in the bible
to not grow You to stay still, to be
stagnant, to just stay as you are.
Everything is expand, step by
faith, grow, stretch, right?
And so there's the why.
Now the what becomes very important.
And I get to figure out what
that looks like, and in what way
we're going to do that, and how
we're going to do it effectively.
So I think keeping the principle very
clear, and it's when you get, Off that,
that things become to get muddy, they
Ps Vance: begin to get muddy.
Principle is expansion, which is
ultimately going to require a stretch.
I like how you caught yourself
that it's not actually.
Always pleasure.
It's actually rarely pleasure.
It's actually real.
Yeah, and if we read the scripture
It probably has a lot more references
to pain than pleasure, right?
Because I
Ps Adam: often ask myself and
maybe business owners should
ask themselves this too.
Is this enjoyable?
Yeah I mean, it's a question I
I make it I put joy in it and I
find things to be joyful about
But it's not always enjoyable.
Like i'm not sitting every day going.
Wow.
What a Enjoyable day, man.
I just stressed over finances.
I had to manage some people management.
There was like, there was a lot
of complexities that I had to do.
Is that enjoyable?
Like, you know, playing golf?
No, it's not necessarily
enjoyable, but is it rewarding?
And I think we need to put our
metric on okay, what is rewarding
am I meant to enjoy everything?
Yeah, can I find joy and his joy in
the reward or is just yeah is does
the process have to be enjoyable?
I I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
Ps Vance: I feel like god promised the
strength from the joy of the lord But
that's not even our joy Exactly the
lord's joy And I found that i'll say
this Bye I don't think a majority of my
time is actually enjoyable right now,
you know, and maybe that'll change.
You know, praise God if it does.
I would say if I were to guess,
Ps Adam: yeah,
Ps Vance: 33 percent maybe, right.
That's actually a fair estimate
is currently enjoyable.
I would say 33 percent is just
kind of neutral endurance.
Yes.
I'll say 33 percent is pain.
I think it's a third, a third,
a third in my, in my experience.
Ps Adam: Right.
And so that's, that's what I, I agree
with that fully, but I wonder if that is
God's purpose, is that he would put us
through things because maybe our growth
is paramount to God, not our enjoyment.
Okay.
Like I think about this
in marriage, right?
We sometimes think, man,
marriage is all about happiness.
Well, I mean, sure you can, you
have a lot of happy moments, but
there's a lot of, you It's a lot.
There's a lot of tension.
Tension.
A lot of tension.
Conflict.
But is God's goal
happiness or is it growth?
100 percent growth.
Is it, is it impact?
So putting two people together,
we have a greater impact.
Now, we get to make it as fun as
possible, but if we're, if we enter
it with the goal of it being fun,
we're going to be sorely disappointed.
Mm
hmm.
Ps Adam: I think it's the same with
business or starting a church if
you come under the illusion like
man I just wanna do something.
I love
Ps Vance: yeah.
Ps Adam: Oh, I don't know if that's always
the goal of entrepreneurship is just doing
Ps Vance: something you
love I don't think so.
I don't think that's the best
entrepreneurs I also think in terms
of husbandry like you just said,
you know some of the You know,
husbands, I don't look up to, they
have a perspective about their wife.
Like their wife is for them.
Right, right, right, right.
Where, where, no, no, no.
She, she was actually an opportunity
for you to be like Christ.
Yes.
Biblically speaking.
Yes,
Ps Adam: yes, yes.
A hundred percent.
Okay.
So, so this is a really good point
and you're confirming where I'm
trying to take this idea because
what I think is there is a movement.
I'm seeing this towards young
men where they're moving away
from achieving pleasures of life.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
Okay.
It's kind of a crazy term,
but they call it raw dogging.
Yeah.
I see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When they look at, yeah, just, yeah.
So you just look at the
screen for 15 hours.
Yeah.
On the way to Singapore.
It's like, wow.
Right.
Ps Adam: But there is something
about this pull back to, uh, can I,
Put the purpose over the pleasure.
Yes,
Ps Adam: because if I focuses on
pleasures, I'll never achieve my purpose.
Nope Okay, I will settle I will be
on a constant pleasure pursuit rather
than a purpose pursuit good and Purpose
comes at the expense of pleasure.
Mm hmm Pleasure is a, is a endless
pursuit that will distract you
from something significant.
So distract you
Ps Vance: or destroy you.
Ps Adam: Exactly.
So think about this.
Is it joyful in this season?
Maybe not because
pleasure would be joyful.
Yeah.
But is there joy in the reward?
That's a better joy.
So I just think that sometimes what I'm
learning is one of my short sightedness
could have been in the early days of
like, man, this is meant to be fun.
And I used to say, if I'm not having
fun, we said that I'm not coming.
We said that.
But I'm looking at that short sightedness
now and going, would I be here even if
this isn't fun, but it's purposeful.
It's
Ps Vance: so funny because I do
think that they're interconnected
and the deeper joy and the deeper
purpose, um, is found in that decision
in that discipline that you said.
I even think that, yeah, you're
right, this whole movement, um,
especially within young men.
Of realizing because of things
like pornography with young men
because of things like instagram
giving these dopamine hits Young men
have realized they've burned their
dopamine glands really quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah, and they can't feel anymore,
Ps Adam: right?
Ps Vance: And it's all of a sudden,
it's like, you know, if they want
to be with a woman, they get into
marriage and all that type of stuff.
There's like, Oh my goodness, I ruined it.
Ps Adam: Yes.
Ps Vance: I wrecked it.
And so there's this whole movement back
to like, let's get back to discipline.
I don't want to burn my dopamine glands.
Um, if I can actually have a
level of discipline, actually
the enduring pleasures of life.
Ps Adam: The enduring pleasures, but also
success is connected to self control.
So I can actually start to now we
know as Christians self control
the fruit of the spirit, right?
Okay, so as a byproduct of the Holy
Spirit, you can have self control
But what if this the goal isn't
just self control the goal of self
control is ultimately your success
That God has
Ps Adam: given you a mechanism to
success, which is self control.
Don't be given into temptation.
Don't be given into instant gratification.
Don't be given into temporal pleasures.
Put the purpose of heaven, the pathway
to the purpose is self control.
Ps Vance: To achieve
Ps Adam: your purpose, it may
be in self control might be not
joyful, but there's joy in it.
In achieving my purpose
and being successful.
Ps Vance: It's not always enjoyable,
but you can rest assured i'm on mission.
So it's always purposeful Yes, right.
Yes.
Yeah, I you know in setting for the recent
message we did in main character that you
had me close up Out on on forgiveness.
I found this thing as I was doing research
That the bible actually doesn't have A
word for brain, it doesn't ever say brain,
um, in, in the Bible, it references like
mind and things like that, but it doesn't
actually say like anything cognitive.
Wow.
And every time it kind of alludes
to something like choice, which you
would think would be in reference
to, uh, uh, uh, decision you make in
your brain, it actually says heart.
So the Bible actually, a lot of
theologians believe doesn't delineate
between will choice and emotion.
Wow.
Wow.
And so this idea that when you make
decisions, your feelings will follow,
the joy will follow, you know, sometimes
that can be a lagging indicator.
It's not enjoyable at the time,
Ps Adam: but you
Ps Vance: make the right decisions, right?
The center of will, choice, and
emotion is actually your heart.
The Bible describes.
And so I was just so
encouraged by that because.
Yeah.
Like 66.
Cause
Ps Adam: Jesus says, I'll give
you the desires of your heart.
So is my heart following my desires
or my desires following my heart?
Boom.
Yeah.
I didn't even draw that connection, but
I'll give you the desires of your heart.
It doesn't say, I'll give
you a heart for your desires.
There it is.
Wow.
That's interesting.
Ps Vance: And I was so
encouraged by that because 66.
7 percent of the time, right?
I'm not.
Enjoying it.
No.
But, but, but I still have to make the
right decision even though I'm not.
Yeah.
Cause if I'm making then decisions
based on 33 percent of my feelings,
I'm going to be led astray.
Yeah.
And I'm not going to be successful.
So could we, could we boil this
down to this is what makes grit?
I think it's connected to grit.
So I do think there's a discipline aspect,
but I want to bring it back to what we're
saying with long term thinking, because
I've always known you as my pastor is one
of the best visionaries, uh, in my life.
And I think a lot of what vibe is, is
because of your unrelenting commitment
to the vision that God gave you.
Right.
Right.
Um, so I've been on this.
Thing lately.
It's actually from a book called
pattern breakers, uh, by Mike Maples jr.
Is one of the early investors into
companies like Twitter and things
like that floodgate very successful,
but he has this really good teaching
around the different patterns you
need to break in order to create true
transformation, not just iteration, right?
Iteration is actually not.
No, right.
Iteration is just a little bit better.
Right.
And so he's been privileged to be
part of a firm that has unequivocally
been one of the top performers
in investing into transformative
companies, companies like Lyft as well.
Right.
He was like the first check in.
Um, and so what he says
is that you have to.
Not get trapped into forecasting.
Wow.
Ps Vance: So forecasting
doesn't lead to innovation.
It only leads to iteration.
Mm.
Ps Vance: Right?
Forecasting is an
outgrowth of the present.
Basically what you're saying is you're
taking stock of where you're at right now.
Yep.
And you're trying to project based
on my baseline, where can I be?
And so people only forecast
things that are iterative, right?
So he says, instead of forecasting,
you need to actually backcast.
So what he means by that is true
innovators actually live in the future.
Right, right, right.
True innovators don't even try to compare.
The alternatives in the market
right now because they're not
comparing on the present So
Ps Adam: it's not an assessment
of where I am It starts with an
assessment of where we could be then.
How do we get to there from where I am
Ps Vance: exactly?
so so his analogy is Elon musk, right?
So with tesla, if you if you compare
the tesla roadster to the porsche
911 Um in every single metric in
every single facet and feature
the porsche 911 would have won.
Yeah
Ps Vance: But He wasn't trying
to compare the tesla roadster
with the porsche 911, right?
He wasn't trying to draw comparison.
He was trying to tell
everybody he's the only
yeah,
Ps Vance: and and that's the key
Yeah is you don't you don't want
to be trapped in comparison.
You want to force a choice Are you in
this Eevee movement with me or not?
Right?
And so what he had to do is he had to
live 10 to 15 years in the future and
then back cast, what do I need to build?
Cause, cause living in
the future is lonely.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Right?
Living in the future.
Cause no one else is there with you.
Nobody is
Ps Vance: there, but you don't want to
stay there alone or it's not a business.
Right.
And so if you're living in the future,
truly, how do you get people, To where
you're at, what you do, you know, in
this book is you create a movement.
And so you have to get Evie enthusiasts.
You have to get people that
wanted good looking Evie cars.
You wanted to get the early adopters.
Then you want it to even
back cast from there.
Okay.
I need to create supercharging stations.
I need to create a connected app
where all the cars talk to each other.
I got to build this screen that's
consistent and becoming the operating
system for our, my vehicles.
I have to build these service stations
where any single person can service a car.
Based on their laptop
and things like that.
And, you know, again, people
overestimate what they can do in
six months, but they underestimate.
And so in just a decade, I don't know.
I live in a Tesla world for
Ps Adam: sure,
Ps Vance: but, but
Elon's been living there.
Yeah.
For the last 10 years and just
look the consistency of him being
able to create a movement to get
people to where he was living.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Ps Vance: Right.
And so that, that's why I'm,
I'm so interested in this season
that you're in, especially as we
head into vision of like why this
longterm thinking is so important.
It's
Ps Vance: got us to where we're at right
now as an organization, as a church.
Right.
Um, and I think it's going to be the key.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Cause I think what?
So a lot of.
What I would say vision or
creativity is simple inspiration
at best or imitation at worst.
Hmm.
Okay.
So even in the world of, of, so
let's take it out of business.
Let's put it in the church.
I think.
Even a lot of church visionaries,
they simply look at what a good
church is already doing and say, Hey,
we're going to do our model of that.
Yeah.
They're not actually innovating anything
or are they vision casting purely from
a space of the unknown what doesn't
currently exist on planet earth.
And so that, that requires a very big
dreamscape and, and what you're going to
present as a framework, you can't even.
Build a full detailed picture
of what it looks like.
I can build a framework that we
can start to add cladding to, but
the best thing I can do is build
a framework if we come together.
And,
Ps Adam: um, it makes me wonder, like,
right, you're talking about Elon, you
know, he, he lived 10 years in the future.
I wonder where he's living now.
Ps Vance: Yeah,
Ps Adam: what's what's in that
impossible zone right now?
Yeah, because we live in the normal
world of his impossible, right?
You know, we got Tesla we've got
connectivity just the seamlessness of
everything to do with Tesla just just
that alone Okay, that was 10 years ago.
That was a pipe dream.
Mm hmm, but now it's just
everyday reliability I wonder what
Ps Vance: 10 years from now looks like
and they're speeding up Yeah, I wonder,
you know, how he's thinking about that.
I also wonder how we should be thinking
about that as kingdom entrepreneurs,
also builders of the church.
Right.
I just think about, you know, part
of it, uh, you've always taught
at Vive is the prophetic is not
necessarily always fortune telling.
Um, a lot of times a prophetic
is creating, yes, it's creating
the future that is now not yet.
Cause there's also been a lot of prophetic
words that have not come to pass.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Right.
I think it's dangerous if you treat the
prophetic like this is reading the future.
You got to see the prophetic, uh,
that there's two types of prophetic,
prophetic that's I'd say prophetic
words spoken over you and a prophetic
word that you utter or that you speak.
So let's take the first one, a
prophetic word that's taken over you.
What it is, is a potential perspective.
It's a perspective of enlargement
perspective of what's possible.
And I do believe in words of knowledge
that are revealing, uh, some things
that are happening in your world that
nobody should know that is a qualifier.
Hey, God speaking, let
you know, open your faith.
Portal right now because God's
speaking but then to prophesy Is to
say hey, this is what the lord says.
Okay.
This is what i'm feeling The holy spirit
is revealing for you to live higher good.
So if I start to live Like God's called
me to live that's a window into potential.
Hmm.
Ps Adam: I can't sit on my nothing and
expect that to happen Yeah, because
there's a lot of dead prophecies out
there That are empty promises because
the people didn't put anything to
action Yes, a prophetic word the
Prophet would call the city to action.
They would call the people of God
to action They would call the people
out of sin fix your life because God
wants to do this But then there's
the prophetic words I declare over
myself I prophesy over my family.
Mm-Hmm.
I prophe over my daughters.
And what I'm doing is I'm declaring
things in the, in the realm of knowing
my language, my words, what I speak
creates life, or it creates death.
I can speak life or curse.
Mm-Hmm.
So I would rather prophesy and create
a world that they will live in by
speaking life over their lives.
Mm.
Right.
I'm declaring future.
I'm declaring great marriages.
I'm declaring great business.
So good.
I'm declaring health.
I'm speaking that into our family.
Now is it worth me speaking
that into an empty void?
I don't know.
I'm not, I know there's substance
to words, but what's better
is if I speak it over them.
It's in their hearing.
So I'm leveling up their perspective
of the world that they see because your
words frame, this is why faith comes by
hearing and hearing by the word of God.
So as I speak words of
faith, My faith is built.
So as I speak the Word of
God, things in alignment with
God, man, I'm more encouraged.
Ps Vance: Let's dream a little bit.
So, you know, if if part of prophesying
And kind of getting that insight into the
future is just creating it, partnering
with God to create it, create that future.
What do you feel like, without revealing
anything about VIVISION, but like what
do you feel like the church at large?
Where do we need to be living in 10 years?
Like, where does the church
need to be in 10 years?
Um, if you were to just dream a bit.
I think
Ps Adam: the church
can't exist for itself.
Yeah.
So I think we went through an era.
And correct me if you don't agree or
feel free to have a different opinion.
Yeah.
I think there was a season
where pastoring was sexy.
Ps Vance: Oh, there definitely was.
Ps Adam: You know, I mean like, For sure.
There were like all of
Ps Vance: Lentz fall.
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The skinny
Ps Adam: jean pastor, the hipster pastor.
Yeah.
There were like all these people
all of a sudden starting churches.
And a good swath of them didn't
even last, you know, a year or
past their funding that they got.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
And I think it was like the It was
kind of the same as the Crypto world
there was there was for startups.
There was like capital flowing.
Oh, yeah for churches I know
people that got a million dollars
in funding two million two
million.
Ps Adam: Yeah
crazy amount of
Ps Adam: funding more than my
Ps Vance: seat around.
Yeah,
Ps Adam: right Not even Based on anything,
but I like this guy, he's charismatic.
Like what a poor investment that is
just on, Hey, this guy's charismatic.
He's going to do great.
Says what?
Right.
Says what?
Well, guess what?
That charismatic got him
into bed with another woman.
And then, you know, it happened a lot.
So there was no, there was
no character assessment.
It was charismatic.
It's charisma assessment, right?
And so that season's done because
the grind of the actual building
the kingdom was so tough.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
Ps Adam: Hang on.
This is, I thought this was fun.
I thought this was speaking on stages
and traveling around and, you know, uh,
doing, and so when the shine went off
it and the, it revealed the real grit.
So what I'm saying now is a church is
not going to be able to last when it
just trying to be a community church.
Right.
Cause you're already deciding our limit.
We're going to just stay small.
We just want to have enough.
We just want to survive.
We want to, it's gotta be, let's move
people to something bigger, not just
provide a place that you like to be in.
So good.
And so I think a church
pastor has to be a visionary.
Yes.
I think they have to be a thought leader.
I think they have to be provocative
in moving people beyond where
they want to go on their own self.
And, uh, I think they have to have
a real edgy grid about their life.
So
Ps Vance: good.
Ps Adam: Where you can't just, you
know, Gauge success of how many people
you like how many people like you
or how many people like your posts
Ps Vance: Yeah, I just I believe
that in 10 years, uh, the church
has to be in its greatest days
I believe that it has to be More
prosperous than it's ever been before.
Yeah, um, there's been a an attack I
think um, You know in a critique, you
know if i'm being generous towards
people on prosperity gospel, right?
But that's not Not Bible.
Ps Adam: I mean, the concept of prosperity
is very biblical, you know, I think if I,
if I defend the attackers for a moment,
I think they've attacked personalities.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
You know, it's like the Kenneth
Copelands, the, the, the people who quite
frankly need to be, um, not followed.
Ps Vance: Be checked a bit.
Yeah.
For sure.
Ps Adam: Well, I mean,
he's not even a pastor.
Kenneth Copeland's not a pastor.
He's a TV minister.
Yeah, true, true.
Yeah.
But, um, And people have followed
his ministry like he's a pastor
and that's like really confusing.
So he's unashamedly like,
yeah, I'm about wealth.
I'm about watches.
I'm about jets.
I'm about this kind of stuff because
he's not saying I'm pastoring at church.
He's unashamedly give me money and people
are like, okay, I'll give you money.
And I mean, he's done some very,
I think, anti gospel things for
sure, which is give me money.
You'll be blessed.
Yes.
Okay.
So that's the, that's the, that's the
bad side first of prosperity gospel.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
But for you to flourish and to
be fruitful and to prosper, let's
change the word prosper to fruitful.
Um, God says go forth
multiply be fruitful.
Okay, if you if you're connected
to the vine, you'll be fruitful.
I judge by your fruit Yes
Are judged by how much you're
prospering how successful you are.
Yes.
That's that's a
Ps Vance: level of judgment.
What are you producing?
Flourishing that that's
that that's a great word.
Um, and you know, I I put prosperity
not the adulterated kind of it that
that some ministers have Definitely
misconstrued but that the the biblical
part of it because the bible says to
Preach the gospel to the poor correct.
I don't think so that they could
stay poor Well, I'm right, but so
that their life could yeah, right.
Yeah Um, you know, I feel like you
know, they're there obviously is an
eternal Perspective of what we do as a
church, but if we're really preaching
part of vibes mission is heaven Here
on earth right because the eternal
perspective the eternal spectrum
doesn't start when we die We're already
on the eternal spectrum Exactly.
So the call to heaven on earth is
actually redemption in every aspect of
our life individually and collectively
as a community And so church has got to
be some of the highest fruit generating
Organizations on the planet 100 church
has got to be a place where somebody can
enter it in poverty Somebody can enter
it You know, broke somebody can enter
it with broken relationships and after
a year or a season they're flourishing,
Ps Adam: right?
I think we're in a dangerous
ground if we connect spirituality
to financial success Exactly.
We're just as in much dangerous ground if
we connect spiritual maturity to poverty
Ps Vance: Both ways on
the financial spectrum.
Yeah
Ps Adam: both ways God's I can clearly
say God's plan is not for you to be
poor No Okay, God's plan for you is
to flourish in the kingdom of God.
Now we've got to attribute
what is flourishing.
I think there is many signs
of fruitfulness because, you
know, I look at my vineyard.
A fruitful vineyard isn't
just a lot of grapes.
It's the quality of grapes.
Okay.
So am I being a fruitful vineyard?
Fruit bearing person is, is the quality
of my relationships rich, um, is the
quantity of my relationships rich.
All these elements are measurements
of, of spiritual success for sure.
But, you know, there has been at the
polar opposite of the super power.
false profit of prosperity is
the, uh, the, the anti prosperous,
let's stay poor and poverty
spiritual monk ism, which is just
Ps Vance: as prevalent.
It's just as prevalent.
Yeah.
And so we have this idea of, okay, people
are coming in and where we're going
to be living in the future is very.
you know, fruitful church.
Let's use that word.
Uh, you know, a healthy church, a church
where individuals, families are growing.
And, you know, in, in that state, do you
think that The church needs to progress
because at vive i'm partial, right?
We have one of the best, you know,
uh, especially Where i'm typically
on a sunday vive mountain view one
of the best worship experiences.
I guarantee.
Oh my goodness Like I bet
you a lot of churches.
I don't even
Ps Adam: just say I think so.
I guarantee
Ps Vance: the the worship the
vocals the production quality the
flow The intentional anality we
have in our messages, you know,
it is in my opinion bar none.
Um, In saying that I see the
progression, the expansion, you know,
of vibe, but just the church at large
to go even beyond a Sunday, right?
And to become an operating system.
Yeah.
Right.
It's gotta, it's gotta invade
people's life to the, we've
always said it since the beginning
Sunday to impact your Monday.
Yep.
But let's take it even further.
Like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday, Saturday, you know, like
how does the church become a
more pervasive operating system?
Because, you know, a lot of people,
they're, they're missing Sundays.
Um, they feel like they're,
they're under pressure.
They feel like they're overwhelmed, right?
They're in the thick of their, you
know, high capacity, you know, high
stress job, you know, things like that.
How do we invade?
That
Ps Adam: right.
So I think this is, this is
the weak side of Christianity.
I think this is the anti
sell to the kingdom of God.
I don't think it's because
the gospel is offensive.
I think it's because Christians are weak.
Okay.
I think the poorest example
of why I would, okay.
If my neighbor, if I'm a non Christian
and I know my neighbors are Christian,
but I see him at home every other Sunday.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
Ps Adam: And I see him, you know,
like a kid sports and not at
church, not really living that
much of a different life to me.
That doesn't show me conviction
around what his core value is.
Okay.
And this is not even being religious,
but if my core value is Christ and
his church, I have to put church at
the center of what I live and breathe.
And so if I'm living a life and then I go
and invite that, that neighbor invites me.
to come to his church.
And I see that you're not
a you, you're not even that
convicted to go, why would I go?
Right?
Ps Adam: But if I see that every
single Sunday, almost religiously
Mm-Hmm,
.
Ps Adam: Now to do something
religiously isn't the bad thing.
Mm-Hmm.
. As long as there's a conviction behind it.
Mm-Hmm.
. And there's a devotion behind it.
Mm-Hmm.
. So let's say not
religiously, say devotedly.
Say they're devotedly going
to church every week I'm
gonna start to assess myself.
Mm.
What
Ps Adam: is it?
That is so good about that thing.
I'm now
Ps Adam: really intrigued.
And I'm going to drop that in a
conversation, even as a non Christian
neighbor, I'm going to be like, Hey,
so, so tell me about that church.
You go all the time.
I'm
Ps Adam: going to maybe
mock it a little bit.
Hey, you're there all the time.
Then that's my opportunity as
the Christian neighbor to say.
Oh man.
It's the greatest place on earth, right?
We've come alive.
Our family flourishes.
Mm-Hmm.
. We've got community.
We've got more friends than you ever know.
You probably see all
our friends coming over.
We host people.
Yeah.
I know.
She like you guys are out all the time.
Mm-Hmm, . You've got
people over all the time.
Is that your church?
Yeah, that's our church.
All of a sudden the the, the kingdom.
becomes attractive because it's
Ps Vance: compelling.
Good.
That's why, you know, originally
what you started this with
is understanding the why.
That's why expansion and growth has
to be at the forefront of the why.
A hundred percent.
Because the what becomes more interesting.
The what becomes way more interesting.
Right?
Like if it's like, you know, your
neighbor is so convicted by his
church, but then you realize, Oh, His
world's like actually pretty small.
Yeah, he's just talking about the
same Four and a half people every
single what can I also say this?
Ps Adam: Who doesn't want to
be part of a winning team?
So if the kingdom is not expanding,
well, are we part of a winning team?
Why would I want to sign
up to a winning team?
I've seen this in F1 at the
moment, Formula One, right?
My team, the McLaren are doing amazing.
They're killing it.
But it's funny how all the,
this is new by the way.
Oh, it's so like last few
years, it's been hard.
It's been Red Bull.
It's been Red Bull, Red Bull, Red Bull.
And it's a classic, like the, what
you've got is you've got fans that
go for the winning team because
they just want to be winners.
They have no conviction about
the team, just what, what team
coming first all the time.
And so they're all now
really mad and upset.
They're calling McLaren cheaters because
they don't like being on the losing team.
Of course.
Nobody likes being on the losing team.
So why would the church have
a plan to just stay small?
Yeah.
What,
Ps Adam: what is, what would God's plan
in us just being small, ineffective?
No, the winning team, we're
pushing back darkness.
We're extending the kingdom of light.
We're recruiting the best talent
in the world to be church planners.
And I think that that's, uh, that's part
Ps Vance: of the why.
That's so good.
So the church remains then in the
future, still a separate entity.
It's it's not necessarily a
disintegration or integration into all
these spheres and then us integrating
to all these fears and redeeming it.
We can't just say that's
the church, right?
Right.
The church still remains
a separate entity.
That then is the training house, right?
For people to then claim
industry, claim movies, claim.
Political office, like how do you, well,
Ps Adam: let's disconnect the
church as an entity and connect the
churches of people that wherever the
people are, that they are the church
operating system in that place.
That the operating system of the church
is the people out in business, the people
in medicine, the people in government.
But the moment that stops, Is when the
church people stop being the church
Yeah Because there is the church
gathered and the church scattered they
have to be interconnected So I have to
have a zeroing point to be the body.
I can't just be built up in the
body Go out from the body good.
I need to remain.
That's why Jesus said remain in me good
Stay connected because you're gonna
lose your potency if you disconnect
from the vine if you disconnect
from the body good Okay, and you
could say but Jesus is the vine.
Yeah, he also said I am
the body Yeah, he did.
So there is a and he's coming to build
the body the bride of Christ Okay,
and so he's the head of the church.
So if you get disconnected
from the church, you're
disconnected from the head You
Ps Vance: That's such good teaching
because I feel like there has
been kind of this two teams in my
perspective and just people I've met
where it's kind of like, okay, cool.
You're either like just kind of a,
you know, regular person that goes
to church and then you're like this
person crushing it in industry.
Like you're, you, you get, you
know, um, uh, you're, you're
number one in your craft or you're
number one in your sport or run.
But they don't have a home church.
So why be number
Ps Adam: one in that sphere?
You
Ps Vance: know?
Exactly.
Ps Adam: But they give glory to God.
Right.
Okay, like in a sentence
you're talking about?
In a sentence, yeah.
So I guess, what's the purpose of that?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, I'm just My goal to give
glory is to lead people to God.
Not just to give God a shout
out So there's a difference
from saying hey glory to God.
Yep, or this is because of God And if
you get connected to God, there's a
potential for you to have this success.
Ps Vance: Yes Yeah, and that connection
back to the body uh in pointing people
to the body so that they can continue
to point people to God is so necessary
because people People don't know
how to read the Bible on their own.
People don't know how to walk
this faith out on their own.
People don't know how to do anything.
They need, they need.
I don't know how to do anything on my own.
I don't, I don't know how to
do anything need the community.
I, I need it.
I need it.
And so, um, so I do think that's why a
lot of people that may be still, I'll be
Ps Adam: very transparent.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
Ps Adam: I, without the body of
Christ, without the church, I would
not read my Bible as much as I do.
A hundred percent.
I fully agree.
It's the mechanism of being a shepherd
and a leader within the church
that causes me to have a rhythm of
Bible reading and immersion in the
word of God because I'm a giver.
There is an outlet that is the church.
I have to, so if there is a
big outlet, I need a big inlet.
That's it.
I need more coming in because so much
is going out if I stop the connection
to the community My outlet dries up.
So i've got a reservoir that I can
just sit on and they get stagnant
And all of a sudden there's
Ps Vance: no flow in my life Goes back to
the why Like in and actually people have
to take ownership for the fact that not
only am I meant to agree with that Why?
but I got to be part of that why not
actually even just in finances like
You You got to be mentoring somebody
you got to be discipling somebody you
got to be Giving towards somebody you
got to be helping somebody like that.
You're gonna
Ps Adam: live a larger life.
Ps Vance: Yeah, you that's that's what
the church is Like it literally cannot
be all done by a small group of pastors
Ps Adam: Yeah, this is why I I feel
so cold and convicted to liberal
cities Because a lot of conservative
cities Um, let's just take America,
you know, you've got the South, you've
got the Midwest, you've got a lot
of, uh, conservatives there that are
weak Christians, casual Christians.
So church is a club, it's
a community, and that's it.
There's no conviction, maybe, around,
Uh, tithing, I'll debate that.
I'll find an internet, you know,
teaching that supports what I want to
believe and all that kind of stuff.
Whereas what we preach here in a liberal
cities, it's so anti God that it's
a full transformation of your life.
It's not an iteration of your life.
Exactly.
So going full circle to what we started
with, your life in Christ can't be an
iteration from your life in the world.
Nope.
It has to be a transform.
My thinking, my spending, my friendships.
Like everything.
I literally have to now
become an enemy of the world.
Ps Vance: Yeah,
Ps Adam: that's that's what I
am as i'm signing up to christ
I'm an enemy of the world.
Ps Vance: Yeah,
Ps Adam: so my non christian
friendships are now a Are not
just for pleasure or friendship.
They're an intentional
Purposeful Evangelism so good.
So I have to forego Friendship hangs.
Yeah for the purpose of willing to risk
this friendship to lead them to Christ.
Ps Vance: Mm hmm.
You're messing with people's pleasure.
Yeah Well, that's good.
I think you know if If you're gonna take
away anything from this episode of the
pod well into season 2 season 2 is hot.
It's good like so good Don't be so short
sighted Um, think, think long term and
maybe consider that your purpose is
actually literally on the other side
of that pain, that discomfort and maybe
relinquishing some pleasure sometimes,
um, so that you can live a deeper life,
so you can live a more meaningful life.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
I would definitely put
the challenge out there.
Uh, if you are a Christian and you, You
should always reassess your commitment
level Can I can I be more committed
have I gone deeper in my commitment
to christ good or has my commitment?
waned Because of my time as a christian.
Yeah, um, it shouldn't fade it
should get it should fire up.
Ps Vance: Love it All right.
Thanks pastor.
God bless