Defining Hospitality

🏨✨ Defining Hospitality is Sponsored by Berman Falk https://www.bermanfalk.com/ - Check out their impact page! 🌍🌱 https://www.bermanfalk.com/impact/ 

Today Dan Ryan welcomes Áine O'Connor, President of the International Society of Hospitality Purchasers (ISHP) and Founder of AOC Purchasing LLC. Áine shares her extensive experience in the hospitality industry from working across the globe in project management, budgeting, and procurement. She delves into her journey to entrepreneurship, balancing work and family life, and the critical issue of human trafficking awareness within hospitality. This episode explores the importance of relationships, collaboration, and passion for quality in the built environment.

Takeaways: 
  • Focus on building strong, respectful, and collaborative relationships with all project stakeholders including developers, designers, contractors, and vendors.
  • Regularly check in with yourself to assess stress levels and ensure you aren’t taking on more than you can handle.
  • Approach every project with a solution-oriented mindset, being open to others' input and working together to overcome challenges.
  • Get involved in industry organizations for networking, skill development, and potential leadership opportunities.
  • Stay open to learning new processes and understanding the rationales behind certain project decisions to improve your effectiveness.
  • Understand that it is okay to admit when something is too much and take steps to delegate or adjust responsibilities accordingly.
  • Support initiatives and training programs that address broader social issues, such as human trafficking, to make a positive impact within the industry and beyond.
Quote of the Show: “I never don't want to work. I never don't want to be in this industry. I love it. I'm passionate about it, but it's a balance.” - Áine O’Connor

Links:
Shout Outs:
Ways to Tune In: 

Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Rayanne Pruitt

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Aine O'Connor
===

[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

Dan: Today's guest is somebody with years of experience in budgeting, procurement, design, and all things project management. She's worked in project management procurement for hospitality companies all over the world in New York, Boston, Shanghai, the Bahamas, Bahrain, and a few more.

For the past year, she's been an entrepreneur building her own boutique hospitality procurement business, emphasizing a promise of success on time and within budget. We'll see you next time. [00:01:00] Presently, she's the ISHP, which is the International Society of Hospitality Purchasers President. She's the Founder and Hospitality Procurement Specialist at AOC Purchasing LLC.

Ladies and gentlemen, Anya O'Connor. Welcome Anya.

Aine: Thank you, Dan.

Dan: I want to let everyone know a couple things. Number one, it's a blessing and a curse. Anya introduced me to the espresso martini a few years ago. And, um, I think of her whenever I see one, have one. And I also, the next day, send my regrets to her. Um, but also, I've been wanting to speak to you, Anya, for a while, so that everyone could get to know you.

Um, especially since you became the ISHP President. And this year with some scheduling changes, uh, you, you weren't able to get your big microphone up at the annual event. And I think one of the amazing issues that you guys are [00:02:00] tackling has to do with human trafficking. And I wanted to give you a platform to talk about that, because I think it's really important to raise awareness and how, and how you guys are, um, affecting change through the platform.

But also you've been in the industry for a long time. All over the world. And like this entrepreneurial step that you've taken, um, in the past year is, is pretty exciting. And we do get at, when this started, it was mostly designers, architects. Um, owners, developers that are listening, but it's really grown amongst the entrepreneur set.

And I think cause that's because hospitality makes everything better. Um, so I, I want to dig into that with you as well. Um, and other things we'll just see where the conversations goes, but I just want to thank you for being here. for putting yourself out there. And before we get into the conversation, what's kept you in hospitality for all these years?

Aine: I think it's just, I was an art major in college. Um, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was a little [00:03:00] unfocused, but I had a good time. but, um, and then of course, when I graduated, I didn't really know what to do with that. Um, I got a job. With, um, a company in Boston that is a condominium developer. And I just got a job in the office, a construction office, helping people pick out their finishes for their condo. And that's kind of what started, you know, realizing that this industry even exists. Obviously we're all aware hospitality exists, but the people that make it all happen and the design and the construction of it and all of that.

So. That kind of piqued my interest in it. It still kept me in a creative world and dialogue with people that I found interesting. And, um, then I moved to Miami and on monster. com aging myself, I found a job with, um, [00:04:00] the Parker company in Miami. Um, I'd never known about hospitality purchasing, anything like that.

So I, I thought I could take my experience. From what I had done in the construction office and it worked out, it transitioned well and I, I was with them for a very long time and really learned everything I know

Dan: first of all, I didn't realize that you worked in construction because in that sense, we have a similar path in that. I worked at a design firm when I was in college at Hirschbrenner out in LA. I interned there for a couple years. Then I moved up to San Francisco. I worked for a hotel developer, and then they wound up folding half their business.

So I got let go, and then I called Steve Higgins, who I'd met throughout the years. At Higgins purchasing. I was like, I want to get back into hospitality. And so I got hired and then I saw that what I loved about purchasing, it was that we get to take all these designs and act as in [00:05:00] the in between to make them a reality and also all with under the envelope or under the umbrella of hotels and travel.

And I just, I loved it. And I didn't realize that about you too. So

that's pretty

Aine: I, I would share that sentiment for sure. I, I love, I've, I've moved around a lot in my life. I've traveled a lot. I enjoy that aspect of our industry as well. I love like, Oh, I gotta go to this install. It's in the Bahamas or, you know, wherever it's like, yeah, it's not a bad, uh, industry in terms of seeing the world.

Dan: But, Anya, there's also like a duality to it in the sense that, okay, so we're creating, we're helping to create these spaces

Aine: hmm.

Dan: that people are supposed to have these incredible experiences, but there's also, like I said in your intro, on budget, on time. So you, and, and that idea of hospitality, It's a, it's an interesting balance when you're trying to accomplish all of those things.

[00:06:00] So what does hospitality mean to you? And how do you bring that into the projects where you're really trying to perform for your clients?

Aine: Yeah, well, um, I mean, it's no surprise to anyone who's met me for more than five minutes. I grew up in Ireland, um, being Irish is a big part of who I am. I know I've lost the accent. Everyone reminds me. Um, but I moved here as a teenager. Um, but my family's all there. It's a big part of my identity and being Irish hospitality is ingrained in us.

It's intrinsic into kind of, you know, The way we interact with people and it's important for me, I always found my role on the projects. Is, is support. I mean, that's no surprise, but the, I love, um, kind of creating this work environment with everyone on the project, the contractor and the [00:07:00] designer where you're talking every day, you're, you're collaborating together, you're. Developing these relationships that are really significant in your day to day life. You talk to people every day and then you do that for a few years on each project. And to me, that's very appealing and very satisfying that I can do that at work. Um, I don't, you know, sit at a desk from nine to five and place orders.

I talk to people. I mean, I do that as well, but I talk to people, um, you know, and understand, From my background, I really have a passion for the creativity of what these designers are doing and, and owners and developers. And, and I love being a part of making that, like you said earlier, making that a reality and figuring out who's the best, um, partners for that in terms of vendors and, um, even warehousing and freight and things like that.

[00:08:00] And really building a good team of people that really respect each other and work well together. Um, so I don't know that I answered your question. Hospitality to me is, um, relationships and comfort.

Dan: that's where I was going to go back to. Cause I, in, in speaking to you before this, on numerous occasions, and even just preparing for this conversation, the word relationship has come up a score of times. Like, it's very important to what you do, to what I do, and I think within that idea of relationship and hearing and seeing and Each other and getting the most out of our teams, whatever those teams may be.

Um, I think a lot of it has to do with it because, and that's why I also think that hospitality has been growing amongst the entrepreneurial set or this podcast anyway, because I think all of the stories and experiences of all the guests that I have, whether they're designing, building, [00:09:00] developing, purchasing, project, managing.

All of that, they're all working towards the common goal of creating a really incredible environment where people can have these memories. And I think that all of that idea of hospitality, just that interpersonal relationship, I think is really what it comes down to. And it just makes everything better.

Everyone, it creates more alignment. It gets more out of teams. And it allows us to really focus on what's most important. What are your thoughts on that?

Aine: yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, and, and as a, um, a client of hotels, you know, I really appreciate spaces and, and what the work that's gone into them and that in terms of my, my role in this industry, again, the hospitality for me is more in the working of the project and not so much, I don't experience the end product as much on the projects I work on as much as I do the process of [00:10:00] making them happen, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Dan: I'll just jump in. I'll just say like, I totally agree. And then you've had this pretty fantastic journey along your career. that spans the globe, and if you could kind of dig through your past and talk about a time when that light switch of that relationship and giving the projects the time and dedication and midwifery For lack of a better word, uh, to bring these projects to light.

Like where did that light bulb go,

like click on for you.

Aine: Um, I know when this was, I mean, I always liked it and was enthralled by it, but when I was working in Bahrain, I, um, worked in the building where I worked for an architectural design firm and I was in the purchasing part of it. Um, so I worked very [00:11:00] closely with the designers. Um, we were all in the same villa, essentially, that was the office. And I just loved being surrounded by all the samples and the trims and tassels and, you know, materials. And so when I would get a spec that made no sense to me, I could just go downstairs to the designer and ask them about it and sit with them.

And I loved this part of it. I would sit with them and they'd say, well, here's the sample I was looking at, you know, this is by whoever, and I want to try and make a table out of it. So I really loved that part of, Assisting them then with trying to figure out if that can be done, how it would be adhered. Is it in, you know, they want it outdoors. It's suitable for outdoor and really just working with the designer to really try and find these unique designs that they were under pressure to provide, given that the client, um, was such a unique, um, client. So there weren't really any [00:12:00] limits to the design. And so they really needed. The technical help, I think, in terms of connecting with the right vendors and manufacturers to make those a reality. And I loved that part of it. And it really, that's, I think a moment where it clicked for me that the design was such a big part of my job and that I could still, you know, there's plenty of people who do purchasing that sit at a desk all day and issue orders.

Um, and I think that kind of leads into the, um, desire to become an entrepreneur with this is the focus. that I can then provide to The team, including the designers and the owner to say, you know, I've done this before, or, you know, I have a suggestion, maybe this will work better. And I, I'm always hesitant to throw that out, but there's so many times where clients will say, no, no, no, go ahead.

What's your thoughts on this? You know? Um, so that's really been a goal of mine in establishing what I can provide. I think, [00:13:00] um,

that's way beyond, you know, issuing a budget, issuing orders. I do all that too. But,

Dan: But that, but that also, that resonates with my journey as well, because I just remember in the late nineties work, like working and purchasing and helping kind of birth this, going with the midwifery theme, helping birth W hotels, working for Higgins purchasing, and they brought in all these people who were just outside of interior design.

Right. They were, or a hotel hospitality design and I would get things dropped on my desk that were like, it's a piece of a shirt or

Aine: right.

Dan: a piece of shoe leather. And Hey, we need this into turn this into some kind of a widget or a bedspread. And I, I didn't even know where to begin, but then you realize, Oh, I have.

experience and people I can call and vendors I can work with that can help me make sense of this and see, okay, this is unrealistic in its current state, but how can I achieve this look and feel [00:14:00] by other means? And it was, I found it actually extremely creative, um, as kind of bridging the gap between what this vision was and what, and how things actually get made.

Aine: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, on the same note, I, I'm also, I love to be organized and neat. So, so I think then in terms of under budget, on time, all of that, it's always. I love building a very sturdy foundation for a budget and for the process and helping the designer also with the specs and things like that to make sure that everything is lined up for success.

You know, so that once we get going and the orders start getting placed and drawings get sent in and finishes and all of that, we're running smoothly on how that's going to go.

Dan: And what I'm hearing you say as you're talking about that, and I think that all. There's so many different players in opening a project. Right. And that [00:15:00] if I were to, I like making spectrums of things, cause I think it's not really like, it's not like just these buckets or it's not like a binary thing, but it's almost on one end of the spectrum you have, it's like combative, right?

Okay. We have this date, we have this budget. This has to be opened at all costs and that can, that project runs one type of way and feathers get ruffled, but whatever it opens. Then there's the other one where it's so combative to more collaborative, where it's like, Hey, from the beginning, everyone realizes that it takes a village to open these things.

And we have to, as experts kind of step in and help fill in the blanks

or help bridge the gaps of, okay, well, this is what we're trying to get to, but there's all these other constraints. How can we get there and get everyone's buy in? And that's a real, that's a real art that a lot of times projects just don't work.

Simply don't have the time for. Um, I have [00:16:00] a big believer that even if there's not the time for it, if it's really that important. We can take 15 or 20 minutes to, to talk about that and be, and lean into that collaborative side. So

Aine: yeah. And I think the real driver of a project team in my experience is that the client or the project manager that really sets the tone and saying, you know, you all have your roles, you're all professionals at what you do, um, but, but do your, your part, you know? And I think if everybody steps up and presents their part and it's, it's collaborative in that way, it's, it's very successful and respectful.

Yeah.

Dan: working on, I don't know, if you were to guess in your career, how many projects have you worked on? It doesn't have to be an exact answer,

Aine: I don't know. I definitely have a list somewhere.

Dan: a hundred or

Aine: Yeah. I'd say about that. Yeah.

Dan: Okay. So in doing that and doing things and learning and [00:17:00] evolving with all of those projects and each one kind of like going back to that laboratory feeling that you just described. In Bahrain, where everything was kind of there and you're learning, you're able to deep dive into it.

At what point over the course of that, did you say, you know what, I have a lot to, I've learned a lot. I'd like to share a lot. And then when did you begin the steps on that path to leadership within ISHP? Because I just, and the reason why I'm asking this is for all those listening, there are many different organizations.

are aligned with our vocations and you just kind of have to know where to find them.

And also it's not easy, but if you really want to get involved and like help impact others, there is a path to take. And I'm curious what your path was because I'd love it to help inspire others to help [00:18:00] get on the boards or committees of all of these organizations that are around.

So like walk us through your process. of why and how.

Aine: Yeah. Well, I mean, um, my, one of my mentors I suppose was on the board and kind of introduced me to it. Um, and so that's really how I got involved. I, I think, um, you know, I started off as treasurer. I was there through COVID, which was, um, a confusing time for everything, but also, you know, not having events, not really asking people for money, anything like that, because it was such a tumultuous time. yeah, and then I was, went to vice president and then president for the last two years. Um, ISHP is a International Society of Hospitality Purchasers. So it's a, it's a, you know, business group or a society, essentially. We're not a not for profit. Um, so what we do. [00:19:00] In terms of the fundraising, and we've had different causes over the years, um, Hollywood Heart was a big cause for a long time.

Um, and then we've transitioned in the last few years to support the No Room for Trafficking initiative, uh, through the AHLA. The American Hotel Lodging Association, they, it's really their cause. They, um, raise the money. We kind of raise it as a sub, what would you say? Supporter and, um, then issue it to them for that cause. Big draw on that is that, you know, trafficking is, has always been around and it's, it's a huge industry, lucrative industry for the people that partake in but, um, what the no room for trafficking initiative does is, um, it provides training for hotel staff to identify, um, victims and then also how [00:20:00] to. Um, react and interact and what to do. If they're made aware that someone is being trafficked in that moment. Um, at our events the last year and the year before, um, we were joined by the A HLA group to show videos, um, about that. And we'll put those up on the IHP website, a link to those, um, where it shows hotel staff that were directly affected by this, where they said, you know. I was given the training and I identified it and I was able to lead this person to safety and the cops came and they arrested these people, whatever. Um, and the, the tragic part about all that is the, the hotel staff then said, it made me realize how many times in the past. This was happening and I didn't know enough to identify it or to help, you know, so we're just in such a

poignant part of that industry to be able to make a difference.

Hopefully.

Dan: it's like, it's almost like ground zero of that, [00:21:00] right? Because they're, they need hotels to sleep, to get on to the next spot and go on.

when I first saw that, I guess it was two years ago when you guys started championing that. Everyone, you have to imagine you're in this kind of ballroom, people are having drinks and talking, and then this video comes on.

And it was like, it was really intense.

And it really struck me that a total chills, it quieted the whole room.

Um, and it didn't realize that like we, it's all happening everywhere under our noses. And I also want to commend because I've actually wanted to talk to you since around that time to talk about this, because I also want to commend.

Carl Long, who was the previous president, because after the silence and everyone is like really impacted and shocked, he gave like a really incredibly impassioned. Speech that was like, okay, if you weren't shocked by that, like just, [00:22:00] he just did something where he'd like really put an exclamation point on everything.

And it really, I mean, it was a powerful

moment for me to realize that, you know, whether we're realizing it or not, like it's all happening there. And I think that the takeaway that I'm getting is not just how to identify it, but how to identify. And intercede safely so that, you know, there's no collateral damage.

Like I can't even imagine the stress of the person who recognizes it behind the counter or a room attendant. Um, and then how, just the, the framework of how to do it. So I just really want to commend you guys. at ISHP for really, um, bringing that front and center and HLA. So for everyone, because I think it's something that maybe people didn't talk

Aine: Unfortunately, yeah, we don't think about it. We don't talk about it, you know, and, and, um, hopefully, you know, again, as you mentioned this year, our fundraiser is, um, [00:23:00] on hold. We're, we're actually planning on, well, rehosting, um, in 2025. Count on everybody's support, but, um, we'll send out, you know, we'll post about it or we'll, maybe you can help us a little bit, Dan,

um, in some advertising for that to get some people, uh, more people involved.

I mean, even just to pay attention, who cares about the donation, anything like that, you know, that's super helpful, but just the awareness and the, yeah, I think the attention to it is huge.

Dan: thank you for sharing. And then, So talking about working your way up as a treasurer, then a vice president, and then president, you've seen other organizations within our industry, whether it's IDA, or NEWH, or there's an alphabet soup of them. If you, if there's people listening who are earlier in their career, um, what, what would you [00:24:00] share about the benefits, just like personally, like, as far as like how making you feel good, like you're making a difference, but also the benefits of just career path and networking, like, what kind of advice or experience share could you give to other people who may not know or are considering dedicating some of their time to, towards these, uh, organizations.

Aine: Yeah. I mean, without a doubt, it's beneficial a for the organization. It's always good to get new people, younger people, you know, more energy into. Um, these boards or these organizations that need kind of new focus. I mean, things are changing so quickly. There's a lot of developments that I think, you know, we're, we're trying to do it as well this year.

We have a great new board coming on in November, a lot of, um, new membership that we've drummed up as well. That is, um, kind of a fresher take baby on some things. And it's just nice to get that perspective in terms of personally doing [00:25:00] it. It's just great networking. It, you know, you, it also gives you a avenue to attend other events that you might not have attended because you're part of that, um, board and part of that organization.

A lot of times it's not a lot of work, you know, it's, it's something, I think a lot of people stay away from it because they go, wow, I'm so busy at work. Like there's no way I can do that. And it's really, in most of these organizations, it's not a ton of work. There's more focused committees that might focus on the fundraiser. Um, so, you know, as the treasurer, you might be writing one check a year and taking in some, you know, checks and depositing them, you know, it's really, I think a lot of people are intimidated by the amount of work it might be. Um, and it's worth it to ask those questions with whatever organization you're interested in getting involved in to see, you You know, everyone can spare an hour to

Dan: I want to, I want to take that experience and that path [00:26:00] to leadership within our industry for you, Anya. And I don't know if it's possible. How did that help kind of give you the courage to take the steps towards entrepreneurship and hanging your own shingle up on the wall outside?

Aine: uh, it was never really a goal of mine to, um, and get all this experience. I'm going to start my own thing. That was never really the target. Um, you know, and I'm, I started a family. I have, uh, two young boys, Brendan and Eamon. Um, and they, um, you know, it just, the balancing. I was kind of thrown into this reality that most women are in, where you're trying to work and be a mother and, um, be a wife and be a friend and a daughter and all those other things. Um, and I think in, you know, In a lot of [00:27:00] industries, but especially in our industry, it's very, um, consuming. You're, I think also since COVID we're expected to be available all the time, which I was always happy to do because I could, and that was so much a part of who we are, I was as a, as a employee or as a worker was a go above and beyond.

And everyone in our industry does that. You know, you've got designers sending specs at. 1159, because they were due that day. You know, it, it happens all throughout our industry. Unfortunately, um, with the addition of children, that became quite challenging. and it just, I think it just evolved into this.

I needed to kind of step back. I wasn't able to going back to what it means to me to be in this industry. And what it means to me to do this job is the connection with people and the quality of work that I'm providing and the quality of, of information and relationship that I can provide. And that was, [00:28:00] um, I didn't feel like I was providing it to the level that was making me proud because I was stretched so thin. So I decided to take a step back for a moment and it was really just a moment, um, because the work doesn't really stop. Um,

Dan: you can't send your kids back.

Aine: you can't send your kids back. You can send them to a very expensive daycare all day that you need to work to pay for. So that's where you end up. So, um,

so yeah, so I just really, again, it wasn't really this huge, big goal of mine, but it just evolved.

And I think that's just the most beautiful part about it. And it's the same with my entire career. It's just been. One step after the other, like, you know, do you want to go? And luckily I was flexible with travel and I didn't have kids at the time. You know, do you want to move here and do this? Sure. Why not? And it just kind of evolved into the career I've had. And also similarly with, um, AOC purchasing is, you know, It [00:29:00] started trying to consult a little here and there. And now I'm just taking on more projects where I can focus on that work family as well on each project, that relationships that I, that really make my work enjoyable.

Um, and I've been able to focus more on my kids as well and my family and be able to spend the quality time I want to in my life with all aspects of my life. I never don't want to work. I never don't want to be in this industry. I love it. I, you know, I'm passionate about it, but it's a balance really. And I think that's what helped me take the steps necessary.

It's of course, it's daunting, but it's just one thing after the other. You, okay, well, I need to have a website in order to get a trade account. Okay. I'll set up a website, you know, and you just do one thing after the other. And before you know it, You have your business cards, you have your business and you have some clients and you have a website and you're, you know, doing it.

Hey everybody. [00:30:00] We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor Berman Falk Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Dan: So if we go back to when you were talking about your experience in Bahrain, and I don't know if you're listening. You probably didn't see this, but in the conversation with Anya, and then also previously talking to her, she really lit up as she was talking about that time. I, the image I had in my head was like, she was working in Santa's workshop kind of thing, and just got to really dedicate time to those relationships, which in this, in her, what she just said here, it was probably the 25th or 28th time you said the word relationship, but how do you, [00:31:00] how has your new entrepreneurial journey Helped help you light up the way you were when you were talking about when you were working in Santa's workshop I'm

Aine: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, there's

Dan: it's

just hotter than the North hotter than the North Pole But like it just sounded like such a really cool and experimental time, right?

Aine: Well, I think, you know, in some of the projects that I'm working on now, um, you know, it, it might not be, you know, I'm not necessarily getting a spec book, you know, like in, in the process of a huge project. With huge teams on it. Um, so I'm, I'm being given the, I don't want to say given, I'm being like appointed a role a little in assisting as well with, with the, Documentation, but the process, like all of that.

And so it's a teaching experience for me to be able to say, you know, this is the process, Oh, by the way, you need to select the finish now, because that then goes to the vendor once, [00:32:00] you know, you don't want to waste time once the order is placed, trying to figure it out and kind of helping people, you know, are guiding a team more than oftentimes on larger projects, you're just issuing the orders, you know,

Dan: I think it goes back to that idea of in the spectrum of combative to collaborative It's really much more on that collaborative side and taking your experience Nurturing each project, right?

Aine: Yeah, yeah. Um, and really giving every project the time it needs. Um, I think that's something I've, I'm able to do now because I'm, I'm not taking on more than I can handle because I know my restrictions in terms of, Um, what I, what I need to be able to provide the best possible support to the team and the relationship.

Dan: again, it's that whole nurturing thing. So if [00:33:00] you, I mean, you've worked all over the world, you've worked on scores and scores of projects. Uh, now you've started, you've gone on this path of leadership within the ISHP. You've started your own company, if there are any other new moms or, people considering a family and balancing work life, like, what have you learned?

Aine: I mean, I could do a whole podcast on this subject. Um, you know, it's, it's, um, it's a really, really deep, expansive topic. Uh, it's different for everybody. Um, where it's so ingrained in us to be separate. Um, I think it's a shame in our industry. I don't know the statistics, but just from going out with people and going to events, there's a lot of women in our industry.

There's a lot of moms.

And

Dan: I, I just want to, I want to, I want you to keep going, but [00:34:00] I want to pause you there because, um, you know, of the thousands of listeners that we have every month, there's like these demographic things you can get from the, all the podcast publishing

people and this podcast, when I last checked, has 75 percent more female listeners than your average podcast.

So I think what you're saying right now, and I'm sorry to like interrupt your train of thought, but like, I just wanted to put a punctuation mark on that because I think this will really resonate

with the listeners who are out there. Whether they're considering having kids, have kids or not having kids.

I just think it's, it's really useful. So I want to thank you for. The vulnerability of putting yourself out there and sharing your experience. Cause again, it's your experience, but I think we all stand on the shoulders of those us.

Aine: yeah. I mean, if I can not even encourage support one mother listening to this, it's, you know, that you are enough and it's, you know, [00:35:00] you can't be everything for everybody, but you can be everything for yourself. And so what you need to be for yourself, you know, is as good a mom as you can be and as supportive an employee as you can be, and just really. I think once you find a balance, it all kind of clicks into place where you can, this is what they mean when they say you can do it all. Cause when you're in the weeds, you're going, there's no way someone can do it all. Have a job, have kids, you know, have everything else that you want in life. There's no way this can be, but once. It's hard when you have babies. It's, you're in such a thick fog, you know, I mean, you've had kids as well, you know, from the outside, but it's such a thick fog and it's really, I think if you can hang on through it and not put too much pressure on yourself and really, you know, be your [00:36:00] genuine self and unapologetic for the fact that you have a family and that is part of who you are. It doesn't diminish how good you can be at work, if anything, recognizing it can make you better. Because you're not trying to hide one from the other. If that's

Dan: I've also learned an interesting tool to, as you're speaking, speaking, this, it just reminds me of like all these, um, learnings that I've had, but there's this one tool, I forget what it's called, but imagine a wheel and then it'll have like spokes of the wheel and the spokes of the wheel could be family, personal health.

Spiritual, uh, business, whatever. You put all those spokes on and each of the spokes from the center of the wheel to the outsider, zero to 10. And it's never, well, I'm sure there's some people out there where it's a 10 out of 10 everywhere, but those wheels always change and they get lumpy. And if you imagine being on, on like on a, on a, [00:37:00] on like a horse cart with that kind of wheel, it's going to be pretty lumpy and bumpy most of the time.

And I think what made me think of that was you talking about, there's all these plates that are spinning. And I think it's our job to kind of step out and it's hard to do sometimes and take stock and see where we are. How lumpy is that wheel? And what can we do to smooth it out? It might not all be tens, but shit, if we can get it all to be sixes and divert some, some energy to somewhere else, or get it to be sevens.

You know, it's, it's, it's progression, but I think without the awareness of how bumpy that ride is or how lumpy that wheel is, it's really hard to do it. So if I could go back, tap back into your experience of when, um, when you were in the weeds, like you said, like I heard you say, and you were, how did you know, like, what did you do for yourself?

What gift did you give yourself to be able to step out and kind of pull your head up and just take stock?

Aine: [00:38:00] I think, um, you know, I think we all wish it was more glamorous than this, but I think mine was You know, I was working on like 12 projects. I had a three year old and a newborn and it took me, I think kind of getting a little bit angry and just saying like, I can't do admitting it. Like I can't do it all.

And it's not fair to myself ultimately, but it's not fair to my clients. It's not fair to my family. So. I think it just, again, I wish it was more glamorous. I wish it was more of a like, oh, I read this book and it made me realize or whatever, but it was more the pressure got a little too much and saying like,

stop, something has to change, you know? Um, so I think that's really, Yeah, it was, it just got too much and I hope it doesn't, you know, if I can guide anyone else, if you're feeling that way, it's okay to say it's too much, you know?

Dan: and I think a lot of us in just the course of our [00:39:00] lives. We don't take that time to just check in and

there's a hundred ways to check in with yourself a thousand ways. Um, it could be going for a run, a walk, um, doing a yoga class,

sitting

Aine: just be sitting still for five

Dan: still

and meditating. Yeah. Breathing, focusing on each breath.

I mean, I've been in places where, you know, they say, take, take everything one day at a time, but there were times where there was so much stress and trying to like figure out what step was coming next. That, You know, literally it's like hour by hour or minute by minute, like what the hell is going on? And that's okay.

I think we all try and put on this armor and kind of go to battle every day. I totally agree with you. It's okay to say, I can't do this,

Aine: Really say it's okay to not be okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: yeah, a hundred percent.

Aine: Yeah.

And I mean, yeah, I'm just glad I, I got to that point and I, I needed to, to speak up [00:40:00] and to make a change. And I mean, It's been a world of difference. I'm so much calmer. I feel more present. I can give my clients the attention and time that they need in a much more focused environment, you know?

Dan: and then as you think about this kind of intentional path that you've been on or intentional change path that you've been on, um, do you have any check ins with With yourself or husband or family about, Hey, I'm approaching that ceiling or I'm approaching that threshold, take ceiling, ceiling's not good.

Approaching that threshold of like, okay. I'm, it's like getting harder to breathe. to take a pause.

Aine: Yeah. I mean, I think I just do it with myself really. Um, you know, again, I'm Irish. We don't talk about that stuff. No, I'm just kidding. But we, um, you know, I do it with myself where I kind of know, you know, this is getting stressful. I mean, I think I [00:41:00] have, dabbled with meditation and things like that.

So it is helpful to do, to take that break and take that breath and kind of say, okay, what's the priority? How can I do it all? You know, and, and really just, yeah, like you said, step back from the plates and say, okay, I see the problem here. I can see. And, and really that's taking a breath. And I think, again, it's. It's very hard. And a lot of people listening will say like, yeah, I wish I wish I could take a break. We can. It's, it's all about prioritizing yourself really. And making that a choice, you know?

Dan: percent.

Um, and if we go back to like when, to when we started our careers, I think. And you go back to that Santa's workshop or the, the, the piece of shoe leather or shirting that was dropped on my desk and had to figure out how that was a time when you would have to take that and put it in a FedEx pouch or fax something, or wait for a roll of drawings.

There was [00:42:00] almost a, um, a way to compartmentalize each project because you were always waiting for things. And I think now, now I sound like my grandfather or my dad, just like now every communication is so fast. There's almost. There's not a time

to take a breath unless you really put these boundaries on work time, personal time, family time.

And it's really hard to do that. And I to do that.

Aine: It's hard to do it, but again, it's, I think it's internal. It needs, you know, I'm never going to tell a client like, Oh, I can't do that. My kid's home or anything like that. Like I still won't do that, but it's more internally knowing and, and being able to balance like what, what's coming down the line. And obviously you can't plan for everything, but I think just being open about it.

Um, I think to your point, we're so, I mean, I'm sure people have talked about this a hundred times. We're so available. We're so available. [00:43:00] Anytime you didn't answer your phone, I'm going to text you. You can't not text back, right? I mean, I texted you. You might be in a meeting or whatever, but there's no, like I miss those days of going.

I'm not that old, but I miss those days of going on an airplane where you couldn't go online.

Dan: Yes.

Aine: do anything.

Dan: the wifi is broken,

Aine: Yeah. And you're just like, I'm just going to sit here and look out the window. And, you know,

yeah, it's rare

to find those moments, but it's up to us in this day and age to make them for ourselves. Nobody's going to make them for you.

Dan: So I want to go back to the other word you said, relationship that's really important. And when you think about hospitality and that interpersonal. Relations on every project. It really resonates with me.

So if you were to paint a picture of your perfect project with the relationships of all involved or type types of relationships involved, um, what does it look like? Like what type of people [00:44:00] are they? What type of

project is it? Like just paint a picture of like what might look like.

Aine: Yeah. I mean, I'm, if I could name names, I'd name names, my perfect team. Cause I've worked with them all in as far as I, you know, there's people I refer back to and go, I loved how he did that. Like a developer owner I worked with. And he was just, like I said earlier, so respectful of people's jobs. That's not my, that's up to you.

You're the architect. You tell me what's right and wrong and I'll, you know, guide the answer. But he really let everybody. Do their job and acted as kind of the mediator between them all like, um, you know, and it, and it was really respectful in a very, you know, bossy New Yorker manner, but it was very respectful. Um, I would have a designer that's very much like a designer. I work with and she knows I talk about this all the time was so calm. With everything, when the clients change [00:45:00] things, when everything goes crazy, she just, I would get on the phone with her and be like, how are you so calm? You know, and I just, I really, you know, there's people you work with where you want to take that from them as well.

Like I, next project I'm going to channel that person to really be, it's not, not emotional, just not, doesn't get wrapped up in, in reaction. It's more solution based. Um, work, you know, um, I also like people working with people who are funny. It makes things go easier, you know, that can really enjoy each other's company and, and crack a joke here and there.

And it, it helps move things along, but yeah, ultimately. You know, people who are ready for the next project already. So they want to get through this and do it well and be proud of it. And then, you know, there's teams I've worked with where you, you wish you had another project together, especially since you've done one together already.

And it would be, I like the idea of working with the same [00:46:00] clients. Cause then you go, I don't need to call them out what mattress they want. I know exactly what mattress they want. You know,

Dan: Yeah. And then, so going with architect designer, then what about like. Owner's rep or project manager or owner developer. Like how would you, what types of feelings or emotions would you attach or ascribe to each of those?

Aine: yeah, I think with owner develop, like, I love it when they're really passionate about the project. Like it's something they've really been. focused on, you know, it's, it's difficult in my role. Sometimes, as I said earlier, you just get pushed the papers, like here are the specs, do it, you know, I love getting involved in a big part of, of being in New York is that I get to sit in on a lot of these meetings that I wouldn't if I was in another state and they'd have to fly me in to do it. So I get to sit in on these meetings about the guest experience and about like why this design doesn't work or why the owner has a preference. Like, I do [00:47:00] like when they have knowledge that they're sharing and I still learn so much from the team on the project of, you know, why the light switches aren't here and they're there and, you know, what it means for the guests.

Like, I, I love learning about all of that. Um, so I think just maybe a collaborative attitude and that, you know, that they're not kind of saying that's just the way it's done. They're explaining why it's done that way. There is kind of a learning environment for everybody.

Dan: And then what about like the general contractor or I don't know, any other players that would be involved?

Aine: Yeah, um, general contractor. I got my, you know, my first job was in Boston. Real hardcore, um, Massachusetts contractors. And I mean, I love, again, I love like a sense of humor or banter, that kind of thing, but also understanding that there is. [00:48:00] a process in, you know, and it's there for a reason. If I'm, things are delayed, how can we work together to get things, you know, what do you need immediately?

You know, if there's 20 floors, you don't need all 2000 lights today. What do you need today? And we can push for that. And really again, collaborative, just working together and not kind of going, well, that's when we need it. The project's going to be delayed, you know, working together. Really. I think that goes for all

Dan: Yeah,

Aine: in it.

Um,

a good,

warehouse

is critical in

my opinion.

Yeah. Projects can be perfect up until then. And if they're not receiving it well and they're not, you know, inventorying it and they're easy to communicate with and all of that. I mean, it's a huge game changer when you get to that point of the project, if they don't have all their ducks in a row.

Dan: a hundred percent agreed. So thinking about all of these feelings for the different players and like a dream team, if you will. If you [00:49:00] were to take that dream team idea and go back to when you started at Santa's Workshop in Bahrain, um, and you could appear in front of yourself there.

Aine: Oof,

Dan: What advice would you have for your younger self?

Aine: Dan, that's a, that's a heavy question. A friend told me recently about a retreat she did and you, you would write. a letter to yourself five years ago. And I, Oh, that's heavy.

Dan: Yes,

it is. It's good, but that's where the good stuff that helps all

this

kind of thinking and exploration. Yeah, well, all this thinking and it helps kind of even out that wagon wheel, if you will. Right.

Aine: yeah, my advice to my younger self, especially in this industry is to not be so reactive. Um, or, or, um, you know, and again, I think working with certain people that taught me like, wow, I don't have to react that way. I can wait, take it in. [00:50:00] See what everyone else has to say about it.

Figure out a way to work rather than saying, oh, that's the worst way to do this. Why are they doing it that way? You know, and, and really having an emotional reaction to, um, someone else's need on the project. You know, like a contractor saying everything has to be there that date. And, and I think you had someone on recently who I have been a, has been a client of mine who said, like, it takes then kind of saying, well wait, the reason they need it is. X, Y, and Z. And you go, Oh, I didn't realize that. That makes sense. So what can I do then to adjust to that? You know? So I think, yeah, that would be cause I think back to that time and there was definitely some reactions that might've been a little like over zealous or I don't know the right way. yeah,

Dan: that, I, I, I really appreciate that. Thank you. And as you were saying that it made me go back in time to, it was just [00:51:00] over a year ago, I was. at a conference and this owner of a project that we were working on ran up to me and was like, thank you so much for getting those vanities on time.

It meant the world. And it was like, we really had to improve the schedule by a lot, but he never told me directly. It was coming through his consultants and it was like, no, you have to do this. And I was like, but that's not the game plan was. And anyway, we adjusted, we got it there. And when he ran up to me and said, thank you.

He said, you know, I was in the. Negotiations or like I was arm wrestling with my general contractor. And um, if those were late, it would have created a whole cascading effect of all of these other change orders

because they were using that vanity as like a, a Perry to like make an excuse for all of these other list of things.

And because you were able to do that, like you really, Save my project. And I

was like, Oh my [00:52:00] God. And then I go back in time to like, well, why couldn't that have been shared with us from the beginning? Because even though we did it, it would have made it a bit more seamless. And at some point, it's not my question.

It's not my, or our

job to question. We just have to get it done. But I think it would have helped us. Lean into it even more had we'd have known that.

Aine: Yeah. Yeah. And realize you were really helping them out by doing it rather than just meeting a date. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, exactly.

And a date from a moving goalpost. Anya, our conversation went a lot of different directions, and I know I've been, I've been chasing you for a long time to do this, um, ever since you became president of ISHP, and I'm really grateful that you came here and spoke about your experience, because I think it will help all of us.

be better. Um, and just kind of minimize some blind spots about steps we've taken or steps we might be considering taking. So I just want to give you a wholehearted thank you

Aine: Well,

thank you. I think what [00:53:00] you're doing is, is great as well. I think it's, it's lovely to be able to Uh, you know, I often see your podcasts pop up and I'm like, Oh, Oh, so and so's on that. Oh, I'd love to hear what they said about this or their opinions on that. So you're also giving us access to people in our industry that to have that kind of chat with, that we don't ever have time or it's not the right place or whatever.

Dan: Yeah. I think it all goes back to what you said earlier, just about these relationships and that space between all of us of those interpersonal relationships that we all have. There's knowledge and learning. And again, that's what lights me up is being able to shorten other people's journeys. And I think you're sharing today.

is going to help give confidence to somebody else out there or a few other people. So I appreciate it.

And

Aine: I hope so. I hope so. And I, yeah,

Dan: Um, if people wanted to learn more about you or AOC, like what's the best way?

Aine: I mean, I'm LinkedIn. [00:54:00] I have a website. I'm sure you'll link them all below.

Dan: Well, thank you, Anya. And thank you everyone, uh, because without you guys listening, um, we wouldn't be here having these great conversations. And this is the favorite part of my week, so thank you for helping me create a platform where we can share and kind of get to the heart of the matter.

So I appreciate all of you. Please pass this along. Please subscribe. Please like. Please leave comments. It all helps, uh, get the word out. I appreciate you all very much. Thank you.