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What happens when life puts obstacles in your way that you just have to tackle? Turns out three Rugby League icons might be able to help.
Making it in elite sport, staring down the competition, overcoming challenges in the game and in life after rugby, Adrian Morley, Shaun Lunt, and Barrie McDermott know what it takes to keep moving forward. From the highs of big wins to the tough calls of retirement, Changing Rooms is about what happens when the final whistle blows — and how lessons from Rugby League translate into resilience, growth, and finding a new path.
The conversations are raw and no-filter — stories of comebacks, transitions, and big turning points that show what it really takes to adapt when everything changes. They’re perfect for young people facing life transitions from education to work, fans of sport seeking insight beyond the game, or anyone navigating career or personal change.
Join us as we swap stories from the pitch and beyond, and share the lessons, laughs, and honest truths that can help you figure out your own next move. Whether you’re looking for resilience strategies or just some inspiration from people who’ve been there, you’ll get insights that reach further than the game — from the Changing Rooms Squad.
About the Hosts
Adrian Morley
Adrian was never just tough — he was one of the most feared forwards in Rugby League, the first British player to win both NRL (National Rugby League) and Super League titles, and a leader who thrived in the biggest moments. After years at the very top, he knows what it means to push through pressure, face down setbacks, and then figure out who you are when the roar of the crowd fades.
Shaun Lunt
Shaun’s career had it all — Grand Final wins, England caps, and the highs and lows of playing for some of the biggest clubs in the game. But he’s also been brutally honest about injuries, mental health, and the personal battles that shaped him. Now, he brings that same openness to coaching and mentoring, offering lessons on resilience and reinvention that hit home well beyond sport.
Barrie McDermott
Barrie built his reputation as one of Rugby League’s fiercest enforcers, a no-nonsense presence for Leeds Rhinos and Great Britain. Since hanging up his boots, he’s carved out a second career in broadcasting, combining sharp analysis with the same humour and straight talk he was known for on the pitch. Barrie’s story is about toughness, loyalty, and how to evolve when one chapter ends and another begins.
Barrie McDermott:
Welcome to Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect, where a few of us ex pros bring you stories from the pitch and beyond.
I'm Barrie McDermott. I will be joined every week by Adrian Morley and Shaun Lunt, legends, mates, and proof that life after rugby is full of lessons, laughs, and the odd knock-on along the way. Together we talk about challenges, change, and what keeps us moving forward on the field, at work, and in life. So let's get stuck in.
Welcome back to Changing Rooms. I'm Barrie McDermott. This is Adrian Morley and Shaun Lunt, brought to you by our good friends at Elect.
You're going to enjoy this week's episode, Moz. It's about changing rooms, it's about some of the inside track, it's about some of the things that we got away with back in the day that we would not have a cat in hell's chance of going away with now. I'm old. You're less old, Moz. And you're the baby of the bunch.
Shaun Lunt:
I'm a baby.
Barrie McDermott:
Is that all right? You feel all right with that?
Shaun Lunt:
Oh, I feel good with that.
Barrie McDermott:
Are you okay being described as the baby?
Shaun Lunt:
I'm more than happy. I suck me thumb as well.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. Not the baby, not the baby face, more the baby's bum. So anyway-
Shaun Lunt:
See, I thought you were alluding to that bit.
Barrie McDermott:
I won't push that any further.
So we'll start with pushing things, pushing the limits. What's the one thing you did back in the day that you don't think you could get away with now?
Adrian Morley:
Well, to be fair, it's something I didn't do but I witnessed being seen done. It was when all the older guys used to pass a bottle of sherry round in the changing room before it. Theoretically, it calms the nerves and it just gives you a bit of a warm feeling in your tummy.
Barrie McDermott:
How old were you then?
Adrian Morley:
I was only 17, so I-
Barrie McDermott:
Did you have a slurp?
Adrian Morley:
I didn't have a slurp. No, no. I'd had a slurp at me gran's when I was younger and I didn't like the taste, but so. Yeah, but that's what they used to do. And if it worked for him or it was a placebo or whatever, but I don't think the S&C guys would let them get away with it now.
Barrie McDermott:
No. And I remember I was just less than 16 and playing for a pub team in older men's rugby and they used to drink port and I was made to drink it, but I was like, "Oh God, that's horrible, that." What about you, Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
For me, I was very hands-on, touchy-feeling in the changing room. So if you ever see some former teammates of mine, they'll always cover up. And I can remember this one time we were at Huddersfield and I'd just come out the showers and Michael Lawrence was stood in the corner of the changing rooms with his leg up-
Barrie McDermott:
Be very, very careful.
Shaun Lunt:
... drying himself there. Drying himself. And all I could just see was something hanging down from between his legs. So I've gone up, I've grabbed it and I pulled it back forward and he couldn't get out of it and I was just walking him around the changing room, stark bollock naked. So yeah, I don't think that would quite make it these days.
Barrie McDermott:
Well, that story reminds me of another story of a former teammate of mine and yours, Moz, Harvey Howard.
Adrian Morley:
Oh, right. Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
You want to regale the shower story with our French?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Patrick Entat. Well, Harvey was obsessed with men's genitalia and he wasn't shy about telling everyone. But then he used to look at you, he wouldn't talk to you, he'd look down at your genitals than rather than your face. But then Patrick Entat, the little scrum-half, the French guy, said in a great French accent, "Harvey, look me here, not here." And that stayed with us for life then, and yeah, every time I see Harvey now, I say, "Look me here, not here." But they were the days.
Barrie McDermott:
They were. Obviously your debut is so important. And some of my memories, I don't know about you two, some of my memories are very vivid, some are in the dark and distant past and I have to be reminded of them.
But the one thing I can't forget was my initiation. When I played my first game for Oldham, my debut for Oldham, first team, debut, away at Sheffield, we drew but we came back on the coach, we had a few beers on the coach. I was 19 at the time. We had a few beers on the coach. Went back into the clubhouse to Oldham, place called Sheddings, which was a nightclub, and they made me get up on stage in front of all the home fans and sing, and I sung Under the Boardwalk. I don't know whether you remember it, Bruce Willis sang it for the time that I was singing it.
Adrian Morley:
Drifters. Drifters.
Barrie McDermott:
I thought I did a really, really good job, Under the Boardwalk. What about you, Moz? Initiations?
Adrian Morley:
Didn't have initiations. And to be fair, I'm very, very shy person, so anything like that, that would have petrified me more than playing in front of 10,000 people here at Headingly. So we had none of that, but I was 17 when I finally got the call to play for the first team, but yeah, none of that.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. So again, just about what Moz was just saying on there, the initiation, either singing or dancing, is probably one of the scariest things that you have to do when you're not in a nightclub and stuff like that.
And I remember mine when I was actually here at Leeds 2012, we had just been beaten by you guys in the Challenge Cup final, and all the families were there and were in the ball at the hotel down in London. And someone had just done a speech. And then obviously myself, Richie Moore, we had to sing a song, and I chose Elton John's Your Song. It couldn't have been the worst song ever. And nobody joined in and it was the most doomus- gloomus song and we'd just been beaten in the Challenge Cup final, so yeah, that was a very awkward moment.
Barrie McDermott:
You've got to choose your song really carefully, aren't you? Because you could choose one that's very special to you and it might be the song that reminds you of your partner or your relationship or a family member, but there's a good chance nobody's going to join in, and then it's three minutes of you in the spotlight. But if you choose wisely and you choose something that everyone can sing along to, you only have to start it off.
Shaun Lunt:
Exactly. Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
Sweet Caroline.
Shaun Lunt:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
All you have to do is start it off and then everyone's in it.
Let's get onto the main topic. So it's debuts. It's about memories of your debut and some of the circumstances surrounding it.
So where were you, Moz, when you found out about your first, whether it's your international or your club debut?
Adrian Morley:
Well, for me club, I got a phone call. So I wasn't full-time at the time. I was working as an electrician. The majority of the first-teamers were full-time, but I'd played, about five weeks previous I'd played for the A-team, me very first game for the A-team, away at Bradford. I played in the centers actually, and I played well, scored a try.
And it was me old mate, Bob Pickles, who signed me, who was the lead scout. And he said, "Dougie was here tonight, Adrian, and he was very impressed with you." Didn't think anything of it. Played about another four or five weeks in the A-team, and that's when I got a phone call. It was before mobile phones. It was a call to me house phone, "Adrian, Dougie wants you to play this Friday. He'd like you to have a day off work Thursday, come and train with the guys, captain's room." And just getting that phone call-
Barrie McDermott:
Must give you the day off with pleasure all [inaudible 00:07:10] paying you.
Adrian Morley:
No, with pleasure. No, no. For something like that, imagine going up to your boss saying, he knew it was part-time, but he knew I love rugby, to say, "I've got an opportunity in the first team." I went with open arms and with his blessing.
But it was just absolutely fantastic training with the boys here. During the day I should be working now and I'm just playing rugby. And then that was the Thursday, Easter Thursday, and I played a Good Friday against Hull and come off the bench after 20 minutes, played the rest of the game and we got the win and it was amazing.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, your debut?
Shaun Lunt:
Again, a phone call, but this time was on a mobile phone. Obviously I'm a lot younger than Moz, so we had mobile phones in the time.
Adrian Morley:
A lot younger? Just a bit younger.
Shaun Lunt:
I look a lot younger. Ooh. And it was Nathan Brown that rung me. So I was at Huddersfield and obviously when I signed, I was signed as fourth choice hooker. And then so I'd done all preseason, I'd smashed all preseason. I played against Halifax, Castleford, and then played four minutes against Wigan. The last four minutes of the game in the last trial, and that was good enough for me. I was happy. I was over the moon.
But unfortunately for another player, David Faiumu, his grandma unfortunately passed away. So Fui had to fly back to New Zealand. And a lot of people talk about sliding door moments in life and in sport, and it just so happened that that was my sliding door moment. So Fui had to go back to New Zealand and Browny phoned me and said, "Lunty, we're going to throw you in. Are you up to it?" I said, "Well, there's only one way to find out." And-
Barrie McDermott:
Was it on telly?
Shaun Lunt:
It was on TV at Catalan. It was the first game. So I can always remember as well, it was Manny's birthday at Valentine's Day. My mom lived in France as well at the time, so it was in Catalan. So my mom was there, me aunty was there, me mom's partner, Sharon was there.
Barrie McDermott:
[inaudible 00:08:56].
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, they were absolutely, yeah, they were over the moon. It was very fitting that my mom was there as well because she'd lived in France for about 10 years up to then, so she'd not really seen any of my rugby, and I scored. And then, again, like I say, that sliding door moment played really well. We batted Catalans that day and then I got picked again to play the week later against Saints.
Barrie McDermott:
How were you in the changing room? Did you have an inner belief and confidence or were you doubting yourself, having that inferiority complex?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. It's, well, something that I've always wanted to do, be a professional rugby player and play in Super League, so I was sat there looking at me idols, looking at people that I watched on TV.
And Nathan Brown was so good at just setting you down, and Kevin Brown was very good like that as well. So Browny would come over. He sort of took me under his wing and Robbo, I was surrounded by very good players, so they helped me along too. And then they just said, "When you get on, just play your game," and I did.
And I was just, like I say, it was probably, I was very calm. Obviously I was very nervous at first, but when you get in there and you go out, you do your warmup, you start to feel in place then, don't you? And then everything else sort of gets blocked out. So yeah, it was amazing, that, and to get a try as well off the nudie run right away, first game of the season, which was good.
Barrie McDermott:
We might come back to nude runs. Nude runs for anybody that doesn't know, if you don't score within the league and cup fixtures of the year, your penalty is to do a lap of the field in the nude. I never actually got one of them.
Shaun Lunt:
Did you not?
Barrie McDermott:
I always managed to stumble over the sideline. What about you?
Adrian Morley:
I got one, but it was when I did the shorts then at Bradford, which you like talking about. So I only played six games.
Barrie McDermott:
Judas.
Adrian Morley:
So I didn't score then, but they still made me do... It wasn't a nude lap, it was a nude pint of Guinness in the pub, which I was quite happy to do because I like-
Barrie McDermott:
Because you like being in the pub.
Adrian Morley:
I like getting nude and I like drinking Guinness, so there you go.
Shaun Lunt:
I did, yes, at Castleford. Thankfully, because a couple of years later when we were at Huddersfield, we actually did it on a main road, which wasn't probably the best thing to do. And it was a midday, obviously Mad Monday you start at 9:00, so by 11:00 everyone's-
Barrie McDermott:
Well, I can say this is at the time before camera phones and the rest of it. Is your time before?
Shaun Lunt:
No. There's camera phones there.
Barrie McDermott:
The height of camera phones.
Shaun Lunt:
No, no, just-
Barrie McDermott:
Just not worth filming.
Shaun Lunt:
Yes, just the beginning. Just the beginning. So yeah, we did it. I did it at Castleford at 17 and we had to just do it around the jungle, but obviously halfway around, all lads had eggs and flowers and stuff like that, so getting an egg to your bare ass really hurts, slaps.
Barrie McDermott:
I take your word for it, huh?
Let's talk about the reality versus the dream of your debut. Obviously, if you're going to spend any time working through a goal and going through that process, you've got a vision of what it looks like before you get there. Did it match your ambition? Did it match your dreams when you eventually made your debut?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, I think it did. Like I said, it's something that I've always wanted since I was a little kid. I've always wanted to play Super League, I've always wanted to get that number and me name on the back of my shirt. And to do that and to, again, to score and to win and be part of that team that winning all that, it was everything that I wanted it to be.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, I agree. It was unbelievable playing here. In fact, in lockdown, you remember there weren't no rugby league on and they were showing a lot of reruns and it was 25 years since I made me debut, and they're showing the full game, Leeds against Hull. It was brilliant going through it again.
And the fact that Leeds had a few younger players as well really helped me. So they had legends like Ellery Hanley and Garry Schofield, but they had players like Francis Cummins and Marcus Vassilakopoulos who were my age, school age.
Barrie McDermott:
Graham Holroyd, would he be [inaudible 00:12:49]?
Adrian Morley:
Grammar Holroyd. Yes, he was slightly older, but yeah, so I was taking as much influence off them as I was the older guys, because they were the same age as me really. And Dougie [inaudible 00:13:00] had a policy then of if you were good enough, you're old enough, you should throw your in, and that's why I got a chance as a 17-year-old.
Barrie McDermott:
Have you gone back and watched yours recently?
Shaun Lunt:
I haven't recently, but I have watched it. And again, like Moz saying, you're looking back and you can see. But again, looking back now, I'm 38 and I was 22 and still just a baby at that tender age. And yeah, like I say, it fills me a lot of pride and a lot of encouragement of what I achieved then to take in my later life.
Barrie McDermott:
We talk about the imposter syndrome. Did you sit down in the changing rooms and almost get a feeling of being a fraud?
Shaun Lunt:
No, not at first. It was quite surreal at first because I'd worked so hard, and I can remember that preseason going into the 2009 season, I've just, I worked my nuts off. I was fitter than everyone. So I thought I deserved to be there, not in a arrogant way, that I'd earned a spot through hard work.
It wasn't till later on in my career when I started losing that form a little bit, that's when the imposter syndrome kicked in and I really doubt myself. And that's when I really had to look at myself and sort of adapt my game. I was getting slower, I put on a little bit more weight, so that was when the thoughts of that, the doubt kicked in.
Barrie McDermott:
We've got two different versions here because you're 22 and you've worked steadily up to the point where you've got the debut. You almost got it by accident. And as a young kid in the right place at the right time with a bit of potential and you got to sit in the changing rooms and you're looking around, did you have that sense of fraud?
Adrian Morley:
Very much so, yeah. If you can imagine, Ellery Hanley was my hero growing up and then next minute I'm packing down with him. It was a very surreal moment, but they had a pretty star-studded team back in the day, Kevin Iro, Craig Innes, Garry Schofield. And again, I looked up to all these guys, so I'm thinking, "What am I doing here?"
Well, I played three games the '94, '95 season, I played three games, and then there was a bit of a break, and then there was a centenary season. So it was a shortened season.
Barrie McDermott:
Signed some good players in the centenary season leagues.
Adrian Morley:
They did, and they also signed yourself, yeah. But that centenary season, I started, they could have four subs then, which was great for basically playing, and they was playing two games a week sometimes because it was a shortened season.
And again, I'm going to get found out here, I'm not good enough at this level, probably played at eight first team games and Dean Bell dropped me back into the A-team. I don't know if it... It started with just saying, "You're not playing as well as I liked."
And that game back in the A-team, that's when the penny dropped for me. I was thinking, "I don't deserve to be playing the A-team." I wasn't arrogant, but I just thought the eight games I just played, I felt as though I'd done enough. So I was a bit peed off with Dean Bell, but that's the coach's job at the end of the day.
Played really well in the A-team and got a recall the week after. And then since the week after, since playing, that's when the penny drops and think, "Right, I'm here now for the long haul," and my performances improved dramatically then.
Barrie McDermott:
And did you ever suffer from the fear of being found out? And if so, how did that affect your game and your approach?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, again, sort of later on, because when you're young and you're playing, you've got no cares in the world. And then actually you cement your place and then you've got to keep it. And that's when that self-doubt kicks in and you're like, "Oh." People start reading your game, they start when you're scoring tries from dummy half, you're not scoring them because they're watching you. And that really affected you because that's when you sort of sink or swim, so you really need to dig down and alter your game and really have that self-belief and talk that inner self-doubt out.
Barrie McDermott:
I found that it was like a game of Snakes and Ladders. I usually have to explain Snakes and Ladders to the kids of today, but it was a case of two steps, three steps, four steps forward, and then occasionally a step backwards and going back into the A-team and just reassessing because you make mistakes, but if you stick to your task, you will find out that you belong in that first team, you belong in that environment, and you can contribute on a regular basis.
So we've covered off club rugby. What about international rugby? Obviously it's a prestigious piece of information. How did you first get notified, Moz?
Adrian Morley:
It was a phone call, but the week before I made me debut for England, I went over to France with the Great Britain Academy. We played the curtain raiser for Wales against France.
Anyway, I scored a hat-trick, never scored a hat-trick in me international career or me full career. But Phil Lowe was the actual current England and Great Britain team manager. For one reason or other, he was the manager for the Great Britain Academy.
So he'd come over with us and I'm sure to this day that he went back and said to Phil Larder, "This lad Adrian can play, scored a hat trick over there." The following week, that's when England played France in the next one of the Tri Nations and I got a call-up. So went as a kid, I was 19 at this point, '96 it was, come off the bench for me debut for England. But just getting that phone call, amazing.
Growing up, it doesn't differentiate Great Britain and England for the importance for me. It's representing your country, but growing up, them Great Britain games against the Aussies, I dreamed of playing for me country and did get the chance in '96.
Barrie McDermott:
And again, two different journeys here, but both as valuable as one another. You had to work incredibly hard for a long period of time to get your international recognition.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. So I was so shocked because I was actually, when the 2010 season, I was actually playing second row and I got called up into, if you can remember, we used to have a mid-season test against France and played at Leigh Sports Village. So I got brought into the squad but I didn't play. Me and Kev Brown got brought into the squad. Kev played, I didn't.
So I was on the fringes and then thereabouts, and I was carrying an injury that year. I subsequently had an operation on my groins at the end of the season. And England were playing Cumbria in the Gary Purdom memorial match to raise some funds for Gary.
And I was in two minds whether to play or not. And I phoned Jimmy. Jimmy Lowes, he was the assistant coach and very close with Jimmy. And I said, "Jimmy," I said, "I want to play because I want to get in the squad, but at the same time, I don't want to aggravate my groins and get out by injury." So I took the decision to not play.
So I went up with my wife, girlfriend at the time, and we drove up and we went to Whitehaven, we watched the game, and I was driving back on the A66 and I can still remember me phone rang and it was a number that I didn't know, and I answered it and it was Steve McNamara, and he told me that I was in.
And honestly, I'm surprised I didn't crash coming down. I remember the exact part on the A66 where I was driving. My missus was, she was screaming, shouting. Yeah, it was such a surreal moment, that one. I'll never forget that moment.
Barrie McDermott:
And who was your next phone call to?
Shaun Lunt:
My dad.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
My dad. Like I said, my dad's why I'm here now, why I made it on the pitch. I've got everything to thank him for. So he was the first phone call and then it was my brother and then my mom and then everyone else in the family.
Barrie McDermott:
It's such a proud time for your family, isn't it? Because you don't just get validated for the work that you've done, it's everyone else who's supported you.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly. You don't realize that, again, what your wife and what your family goes through. Again, rugby league's such an up and down sport. You win one week, you're on top of the world, you lose the next week, you're a grumpy git all week. And they've got to take the flack for that and they've got to see your ups and your downs, they're the ones that look after you when you get injured.
And so for me, it was, again, me personally got the accolade, but it was, like I say, from when I was... My dad drove me to St. Helen's every day, training every day, down two hours there, two hours back every day. So all them little bits, all them little effort bits there, they all do amount up. And yeah, again, it was relief and that I got to the pinnacle of the sport.
Barrie McDermott:
Do you want me to tell you how I found out my international call-up?
Adrian Morley:
Go on then.
Barrie McDermott:
CEEFAX.
Adrian Morley:
Oh, okay.
Barrie McDermott:
You won't even know what that is, will you?
Adrian Morley:
I know what a CEEFAX is.
Barrie McDermott:
No. Explain.
Shaun Lunt:
The baby doesn't.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. The baby.
Adrian Morley:
Well, it was the TV before...
Barrie McDermott:
It was like the internet, weren't it?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Teletext, CEEFAX and all that. Yeah. So all the news was on there, so before computers.
Shaun Lunt:
Was it in color or black and white?
Adrian Morley:
No, it was in color.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, it was, but obviously it was [inaudible 00:21:52]. But there was probably some bloke typing it out because you had to wait for it to refresh.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
And yeah, I can't remember how I then got to home. I don't know who gave me the information. Got home, switched to tele and put the CEEFAX on there. It was B McDermott. I was at Wigan. I'd played against Australia for Wigan and had a memorable game in many ways, but then got suspended for a gross act of thuggery. Paul Sironen viciously threw his head at my elbow, but then I thought probably that's... And I went nowhere near the scene anyway. I probably thought that's my ambition. I might hopefully make an appearance somewhere later down the track, but Ellery, in his wisdom, chose to bring me in.
And I got a phone call shortly after I'd spotted on CEEFAX, but I'm telling you there was disbelief for me because I'm thinking, "How were these events all linked together?" And I think they were, because Ellery's had a look at the TV and thought, "He's scared of nobody, this fella." Didn't realize I was scared of everybody.
But it was an amazing time of my life because those mad exposures to elite test football, test rugby league were incredible. And my debut was at Wembley. Jonathan Davies scored a magnificent try in the corner. Shaun Edwards got sent off. I played 60 minutes of international rugby league, having been exposed to nothing like it before that.
And the inferiority complex, the imposter syndrome, the fraud feeling were rippling. It was like one after another after another, but because it was so intense, I didn't have time to think about it. But brilliant times, but also times where you start to discover who you are and what you've got in your locker and in your character.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, definitely. Like I say, when I represented, we played Australia in Australia and I could always remember Sam Thaiday just running towards me and he was just bouncing, he was like the Predator coming towards me and I thought, "Wow," and I can still see that now.
And the only downside was that the great side was in Australia, against Australia, but the downside it was in Australia, against Australia, because my family weren't there, so there's just me. So I had some friends over there that were over there at the time, so. But yeah, I can always remember them all watching and phoning me after the game.
And just, yeah, it's good to see how happy that you can make other people as well, [inaudible 00:24:20] your family, and again, that they're all encouraging you and they understand your dream, what you've wanted since a kid, and they've seen you go and do it. And it's something, again, like I say, gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.
Barrie McDermott:
It's brilliant, because all three of us, whenever we start to talk about it, there's a smile and there's a memory in there. Everyone's lighting up partly. What about you, Moz?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Well, when I did make the England squad, I was only in and out one game. They played another game the following week against Wales and I got a drop for that one. But I wouldn't bother. I'd already done it.
But me good friend, Nathan McAvoy, who grew up playing amateur with, he got a call-up for England the following week. Me brother was playing for Wales, so we made the long trip down to Cardiff to watch this game. I was made up for him.
But at the end of that year, there was a Great Britain tour Down Under. And even though I had played one game for England, I thought the tours are distant.
Barrie McDermott:
Another three or four levels up.
Adrian Morley:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I didn't think I was going to make that. And again, instead of getting a phone call, I got a letter this time saying, "You've been selected." And that meant more to me than anything. When you're a British Lion, a tourist, it's unbelievable.
Barrie McDermott:
So national rugby is obviously the highlight and it's the peak. And for many of us, it's that validation we get on an international stage. There's always a celebration. Sometimes it's with your friends.
And it's funny you talk about being on your own. Sometimes you want the nearest and dearest to just be there just to take part in that moment and celebrate at the side of you, don't you?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, definitely. Like I say, I've just achieved the pinnacle in rugby league, and the people that you want to enjoy it with is your family that's helped you get there. But again, it's something that I'm so proud of.
Me son's got me shirt on his wall above his bed, so every time I go in the morning and wake him up, I see it there, and I've got my cap downstairs. And like I say, it's something that it's still surreal to this day to think, because I've watched, like I say, you guys play, looked up to you as yous both play. So I don't see myself as, because obviously yous are all my heroes growing up and stuff like that, so for me to just to sit there and have a moment and say, "I actually did it."
Barrie McDermott:
What about you, Moz?
Adrian Morley:
Well, it was a bit similar to club rugby where I've toured, played for England once, toured with Great Britain Down Under, but I didn't feel I was always part of it really, because I come off the bench in midweek games, that kind of thing.
Went to the following year, '97, when I got picked for Great Britain, it was a home series against the Aussies, against the Super League Aussies. We played the first test at Wembley. I come off the bench again, played well. And then I actually got start the following week at Old Trafford against these Aussies. And I played the game, played well, and we actually beat the Aussies. Because it was Old Trafford, being a Salford lad and a Man United fan, it was extra special.
And you mentioned your family there. I remember to this day, coming in players bar, mom and dad were there and they'd just come over, give us a big hug and we just beat the Aussies, and pretty tough to beat them memories really.
Barrie McDermott:
What advice would you give younger players, anybody chasing a dream, anybody doubting themselves?
Shaun Lunt:
For me, it's literally hard work. Put in the hard work. Don't worry about anyone else. Yeah, there might be people more skillful than you, there might be people ahead of you at that time, but if you don't give up and you keep working hard, you will get the fruits of your labor.
Adrian Morley:
Don't be scared to make goals. If you get signed as a professional, I want to make the A-team from the academy, make the A-team, I want to make first team, when you make first team, I want to play international. The higher you set your goals, the more likely you are to achieve them. And couldn't agree more with Lunty. There's no substitute for hard work. Get the hard work done. Set the goals, see where it takes you.
Barrie McDermott:
Proud moments, outstanding milestones, some really good stuff. I'm happy with that, lads.
I want to finish off with comparisons. Club rugby you play against people week in, week out. You have an instant dislike of a play for an opposition team or they're in your position on the field. But who did you find when you went into them elite environments that you didn't expect to get on with them, but you ended up spending a lot of time and gaining a friendship with them? We'll start with you, Lunty.
Shaun Lunt:
For me, I always admired this person but disliked playing against him. I wouldn't say I disliked him, but the way he played was just so tough and hard. It was Sean O'Loughlin at Wigan. Especially that 2010 season where they just absolutely dominated, dominated the league and the way they played, they were just aggressive, angry, they really put you to it. Every time you played them, you came off the field and you'd known you'd been in a game.
And I was fortunate to room with Lockers the first week in camp when we went to Australia, and he's one of the nicest blokes you will ever come across and it just, it changed my whole perception of him. And again, I'm very fortunate to play with him and very fortunate to play against him.
Adrian Morley:
Well, the nature of rugby league is you have got your rivals, same positions and all that. And going into camp, before you go to camp, you've got a pretty strong dislike for these guys, but the beauty of international camp is everyone's teammates, you've got to be best mates when you go in.
So I was fortunate that the second row, I was second row at the time, but Paul Sculthorpe, even though he's a little bit younger than me, I really looked up to Scully because he was on the scene even before me as a 16-year-old. He was a bit of a prodigy as a kid, but he had all the skills, he was fantastic. So as much as the rivalry was there, we always got on great. I want to mention as well Denis Betts. So he was, my first tour-
Barrie McDermott:
What was your nickname for him?
Adrian Morley:
Lion Head.
Barrie McDermott:
Lion Head. That's it. Yeah.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, so he looked like the Great Britain badge.
Barrie McDermott:
He did, didn't he?
Adrian Morley:
But he was from Salford, same position as me. And when I toured in New Zealand, he really did look out for me. He took me to his house, and as a 19-year-old, imagine saying, "Help yourself to some training gear," then a little scruff from Salford, I certainly did help meself. But he was great and we always got on great.
I actually caught up with him at the grand final and we had an embrace. Yeah, so Betts, he was great. But again, he's hard to dislike. There's not many people you don't like in international camps. And the second row, there was a bit of a club really. We all got on great. Chris Jones, another one. He was fantastic.
Barrie McDermott:
I'm going to keep the Wigan theme up here because you picked Sean O'Loughlin, great lad, fierce competitor. You picked Denis Betts.
I didn't like Andy Farrell. Until I arrived in the same team as him, I could not think of anybody that was... He could outfight you, he could outwork you. He had better skills. He had a kicking game. He could convert tries. So he's a bit younger than me.
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:31:21].
Barrie McDermott:
I didn't like him because he had all talent [inaudible 00:31:24]. So Oldham and Wigan, we were always, always fighting as a little town against the big town in town team or whatever was going on.
So I always saw, I looked at Faz and thought he represents that Wigan elite mentality. But when I joined Wigan and then when I played with him internationally, I aligned myself with him because he had great habits. He did what he said he were going to do. You can tell with what he's done with Rugby Union.
And a good mate of ours, JP, has said that he's the best rugby from both codes convert that there's ever been. And when you look at people like Jason Robinson and all the achievements and accolades, I think it's hard to argue against Faz and his impact on people around him. And he was one of those cultural architects that you could not do anything other than fall in line with him because if you didn't fall in line with him, you find yourself stood on your own more often than not. So I'd probably put Andy Farrell in that bracket.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, agreed.
Barrie McDermott:
So how do we wrap that up for our viewers there? Don't judge a book by its cover?
Adrian Morley:
No, don't judge a book by its cover and just because, like you said, you had a dislike for him only because he was fantastic-
Barrie McDermott:
[inaudible 00:32:37].
Adrian Morley:
... he was great at everything, so don't have a jealousy, have more an admiration rather than anything else. And then I'm the same as you, Baz, when I watched him go about his business in international camps, you can't help but be impressed. He was another level, wasn't he, Faz? Yeah, so if you can surround yourself by people like that, their habits will rub off on you and you'll go far.
Barrie McDermott:
And something you said about choosing your circle of friends really wisely.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, definitely. Obviously they're the people that you spend most time with so you've got to select them very wisely. And again, you want to rub off on each other the right way, not the wrong way. And so if you surround yourself with positive people, the same drive.
And again, just what Moz was saying there, the jealousy, a lot of people have a jealousy these days and it shouldn't be, it should be admiration. Admire what they do and try take a little bit from what they do and put it into you.
Barrie McDermott:
Some real legends there, love it. Some great stories, some stories best left in the changing rooms.
Let's go through the takeaways now. First one, how did you approach failure?
Adrian Morley:
Don't be scared of failure. I've mentioned before about setting goals. If you set goals that are too low, it's not worth achieving them, are they? So set your goals high. If you do fail, try again. Just keep with it. And working hard will ultimately get you that goal.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. Failure, we're going to fail at any time. It's part of the process. Just pick yourself up and keep going.
Barrie McDermott:
And chasing that dream needs a team. It's not just about you as an individual.
Shaun Lunt:
No, exactly. And we spoke about it, [inaudible 00:34:14] other people around you, [inaudible 00:34:15] your family, your kids, your parents, your friends that you keep around you, the team that you're playing in, you've got to keep going and keep working hard for each other.
Barrie McDermott:
And it's not just you that succeeds and fails, Moz.
Adrian Morley:
No, you're right. It's your family or, I mean, teammates, coaches. Everyone to do with the team sport is in this journey together, so you win together, you lose together, but the main thing is you're together.
Barrie McDermott:
And how did you cope with that doubt and that nagging in the back of your mind?
Adrian Morley:
Well, every new experience, whether that be in sport or in business, is daunting, and you're going to have these doubts. You're going to have a sense of, "Am I in the right place? Am I worthy here?" You've just got to think, "Is my preparation right? Have I put enough work in to get where I am?" And more often than not, the case will be a yes and then you shouldn't have any doubts. And the more you spend in these new experiences, the more you feel at home.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. Myself, coming up against doubt, it's not listening to people around you that have that outside influence on you. And if you quit, well, you'll never succeed in life. The only way you can keep going is just to keep pushing yourself, getting uncomfortable, being comfortable in them uncomfortable situations.
Barrie McDermott:
And all the topics that we're covering here are going to forge that resilience in your character.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly. And that's what you're all about. We're all going to fail at some point, but if you never quit, you'll never lose. You just find a way of how not to do it and you just got to keep going, keep working hard and believe in yourself, and one day you will get that door where you keep knocking on that door and that door will open.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Don't be scared. Don't be scared of failing. Some of the best business minds in the world have failed hundreds of times. Some of the best sportspeople in the world fail at training, fail in games, but they just keep that persistence, and you're right with the resilience, and then you'll get them goals.
Barrie McDermott:
Okay, that's it, lads. Another episode wrapped up. Great chat. Great insight. Who do you think handled their call-up better, me or you two?
Adrian Morley:
I think you, Baz, because you should have been banned when you got called up, so you were very lucky to get called up. But no, the way you performed with no experience, I remember watching that as a kid and, yeah, you did us proud by it.
Barrie McDermott:
Well, that's not the answer I was expecting. I was expecting abuse, Moz, but thank you.
Shaun Lunt:
I don't think I was born, so I can't comment.
Barrie McDermott:
Oh, low blow, Lunty. Low blow.
On that note, that's it from Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect. Don't forget to like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.