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Welcome to the West Side Investors Network, WIN, your community of investing knowledge for growth. This is the Real Estate Professionals Investing Podcast. For Real Estate Professionals by Real Estate Professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career....... investing.
Welcome to the Westside Investors Network. Win, your community of investing knowledge for growth. This is the real estate professionals investing podcast for real estate professionals by real estate professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career, investing. Thank you for listening.
Intro speaker:And please, if you like our content, rate us on your podcast provider. Just a quick disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are for educational purposes only and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any shares or securities, make or consider any investments, or take any other action.
Trent Werner:Welcome back to another episode of the Deal Deep Dive segment on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Werner. In this segment, our featured guests will share their unique stories on a specific deal they've invested in. We will dive deep into finding the deal, financing the deal, writing an offer, and the due diligence. Do us a solid and smash that subscribe button, leave us a rating, and share this episode.
Trent Werner:And now let's dive deep. Welcome back to the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. On today's deal deep dive episode, we're joined by Jim Shields of Southern Impression Homes. Jim's gonna share his story about how he went from flipping and rehabbing foreclosure homes to merging his company with Southern Impression Homes and focusing primarily on build to rent real estate.
Trent Werner:Southern Impression Homes focuses on building single family houses, duplexes, and quadplexes. And the deal that we're going to talk about today with Jim is how they built 12 quadplexes for their investors and ended up selling them off. And their average return was ten, eleven, between 1011% cash on cash. Now let's welcome Jim Shiels. Alright.
Trent Werner:We got Jim Shiels on the show today from Southern Impression Homes. I'm super excited that Jim is joining us. We're gonna talk about Build to Rent, which I don't know we've actually talked about on the West Side Investors Network podcast before. So, Jim, thanks for joining us.
Jim Sheils:Great. Good to be here. Thanks for having
Trent Werner:me. We're just we're just talking a little bit offline. Jim is down in Florida. I think that maybe play a factor into the name of Southern Impression. But before we get into Southern Impression, I want to hear about Jim Shiels.
Trent Werner:How did you get into real estate, and have you been doing the build to rent for your entire career?
Jim Sheils:Yeah. Great question. I actually got, into real estate twenty five years ago out on your side of the country. And, I made an offer on my first fixer upper in Longpoche, California almost twenty six years ago now. Had read some books and had wanted to go into something and real estate just kept calling to me.
Jim Sheils:One of it was that at that time, seven out of ten millionaires in The US made the money in real estate. And I like those odds. I like the tangibility. I grew up a half hour from Wall Street. I never liked that world.
Jim Sheils:It didn't make much sense to me. And now that's where it all started. And, for years, I did, buying, fixing, and selling of HUD foreclosures and then left for California. Left California in about 02/2005 when the numbers got pretty crazy out there. I went to Florida and, continued doing that.
Jim Sheils:Bought a lot of foreclosures through the two thousand and eight meltdown. That was a very lucrative time, but that started to dry up. And, in about ten years ago, my now building partner came to me and said, hey. We had already worked together on deals, and they had a management company that managed my portfolio. But then his father approached me and said, what if we built our own investment properties for our investors instead of fixed up old ones?
Jim Sheils:And that was kind of the start of build to rent, Trent. And so that was about ten years ago. There was no term build to rent at that time. And so we were kind of falling backwards into it before we even knew it. But my first fifteen years was a hardcore fixer upper.
Jim Sheils:I was a rehabber, and then went new construction about ten years ago. And I don't think I'll go back to the old stuff anymore. There's the new construction as a larger barrier to entry, but it's, it's got a better base fundamental to it, I believe. I'm sure we'll talk about that today.
Trent Werner:Yeah, absolutely. And I know build to rent has become, like you said, more of a mainstream concept more recently. You know, I really didn't hear about it until probably four years ago, maybe. And now you see all these subdivisions and everything like that that are built to rent instead of built to sell. So I definitely know that it is becoming more popularized, but it sounds like you were a little bit ahead of the curve, on this on this concept.
Trent Werner:Definitely.
Jim Sheils:We were early on that, which which we're grateful for.
Trent Werner:And one thing so I have house flipping experience and, you know, remodel experience and all that stuff. I feel like, you know, a natural progression would be once you develop those skills, it kind of, you know, just, you know, feeds into new construction. But I feel like a lot of people don't get to that point just because, like you said, the barrier to entry is a lot higher. What did that, I guess, shift look like in terms of, you know, I don't think you're learning a whole lot of new skills, maybe permitting and, you know, planning and all that stuff. But what was the transition like?
Trent Werner:Was there a big learning curve, I guess I should say, when you went from remodel to ground up?
Jim Sheils:There there is a learning curve. One of the biggest learning curves is patience. You know, you can buy a rehabbed, property, an old property that needs rehab and sometimes be done in ninety days if you're real quick and it's a simple project. You know, for for new construction, you know, if you're buying a individual, infill lot in an existing neighborhood, those can move quicker, but they're still a slower thing. And if you buy a tract of land, this is where I see a lot of people.
Jim Sheils:They say, I'm going to develop it real quick and build some properties. I mean, you might be two years before you get the land even approved. And that is very different than ninety days. So growing patients was one of the biggest things we found, that the actual cycle was longer from start to finish. And that's something that I think you have to really get used to.
Jim Sheils:And then there are some things that are, like you said, that starting point of building from ground up. There can be some more involvement of different trades that you wouldn't be working with if you're just rehabbing an existing home. But what I found on the flip side too is when we were able to go into new construction, we were able to work with larger subcontractors that were more dependable, maybe to give volume discounts when we did volume. You know, when I was a a rehabber and running small crews or working with smaller contractors, that could that could be a little dicier and harder to keep managed.
Trent Werner:So aside from you wanting to get in or or getting into this side of the business, I know you started your own company and were, you know, rehabbing and everything like that. How did the, how did the merger or the partnership come to fruition with your current company, Southern Impression Homes?
Jim Sheils:Well, yeah, I wouldn't the very first new construction projects we did, my now partner came to me and said, Hey, do you want to try this? We threw in some development fees together and just tried it out, see how it went as a little experiment. It was small, maybe 22 houses in an already existing neighborhood. The developer had left behind these lots and jumped to their next project, and we bought them out. And it went okay at best.
Jim Sheils:But we saw that, man, this has some real legs. And at this time, you got to remember, you know, people looking for old properties to fix up and either rent or sell. There was a ton in Northeast Florida here where we are. It was getting very popular. And so we we just had too much competition where they were bidding up the the the prices.
Jim Sheils:And then you'd have to to make numbers work. You'd have to cut corners on rehabs, which I didn't want to do. So so we just started to do more new construction. And I had a very good network of investors and relationships with people that would want these types of properties. And my building partner had the building skill set and the the management in place.
Jim Sheils:I already had my my own personal portfolio with with their company. And so it just seemed like a good blend, so we formed a joint venture. Then after several years of working together last few years, we've done so many projects together on the side too, RV resorts and other things. We just said, you know what? Maybe at this point, we'll, we'll just combine efforts.
Jim Sheils:So I said, why don't I just merge my company with you to to, you know, become a partner and just handle the things that I've been handling for the most part anyway? And, and we just grow together. And that was a good move because a few months after I did that, our company was partially acquired by Sumitomo. Sumitomo, you probably see them in the news. They're a large successful Japanese conglomerate.
Jim Sheils:You know, Warren Buffett is heavily invested in one of their other business divisions, but not with us. And but they're a three thirty one year old company. They build 17,000 homes worldwide. And they're very interested in build to rent and in Florida. So they were able to step in.
Jim Sheils:They paid off all of our bank debt, came in as a partner. We self build now. We don't have to go to any banks for any bank debt. And that gives us a the handcuffs come off. There's a lot of great builders out there, you know, right now, Trent, that they they're not getting to build just because the banks are pretty screwy and and not really, lending.
Jim Sheils:But we're lucky we don't have to do that. So all of these mergers all happen within a six month period and ended up being all these combined forces bringing their best talents together. So it's been a very good thing for all of us.
Trent Werner:Very nice, which I would agree with that. There's a lot of people that have the skill sets, but they need the, the bankroll to to really leverage up and keep going. One thing that you mentioned was, you know, you you hit a point where the rehabbers and flippers were just bidding everything up to a point where you feel like you couldn't make the deals work. And I've seen that within the last three, four years again, where, you know, we used to see a lot of deals that make sense. We'd submit offers and we get them great.
Trent Werner:But now we're submitting offers. All of a sudden, a house is selling for way more than what we expect it to. And we really can't wrap our head around why someone would pay that much or almost kind of hitting that same cycle when it comes to flipping and rehabbers of, you know, it's hard to find a good deal right now because there's so much competition out there bidding everything up.
Jim Sheils:Yeah. We've seen it, and it comes and goes. The one thing I've I've learned is there's never normally a volume unless they're very deep pockets of a hedge fund or something. But if it's more smaller investors, you can't last too long buying a property that needs rehab at 95¢ on the dollar, and and staying in business. So they'll win a couple of bids, but it's it's a very short term plan.
Jim Sheils:That's for sure.
Trent Werner:That makes sense. So now let's let's talk about a deal. We learned about you, Jim, and we learned about, you know, your mergers, Southern Impression Homes, what you guys specialize in and what you guys are good at. Let's talk about a deal so we can provide an example to the listeners. We we kind of discussed it before we started reporting, but we're going to talk about a smaller build, right?
Trent Werner:And your guys' standards. Tell me a little bit about the project.
Jim Sheils:Yeah. So our main menu is always single family duplex and quads. We really enjoy that residential realm. We know we can get into better areas, get better builds quicker. There's more demand, especially, you know, since all the things we've gone over the last few years.
Jim Sheils:The low density stuff was doing really well in Florida, so we wanted to go deeper into it. So we stick to that, and we have our own in house financing for residential financing, which we'll talk about and helps the deal work. But at one of our quads, quads are very interesting cause they're as close as you can get to commercial without having to go into the commercial financing world, the commercial insurance world. And they've been very popular. Made a lot of happy clients for us both in equity growth and rental growth.
Jim Sheils:So right now, Jacksonville, Florida, 1 of our main hub markets, we're building quads there. We have a complex there that is almost sold out. I think there's two left in there right now called Bercoski. Bercoski is in the Mandarin area. Anything you Google will show it's one of the upper end areas of Jacksonville.
Jim Sheils:It's a small community, 12 quads altogether, and we are selling those for 985,000. These are two bedroom, two bath units. Great layout, great floor plan. We do not do this is something that I wanna distinguish Trent. We don't do big amenity clubhouses and extra pools and all this.
Jim Sheils:And that and people say, wow, but that's what people want. What we found is people want to be in good areas with the best affordability. And so we found in our building projects, Trent, those things cost a lot, take a lot of time. And then once people move in, they barely use them. You know, when you start to survey on things, people don't use them.
Jim Sheils:So we've said, well, if we can save that part of the build and get the best rent prices for our people in these higher end areas, we think it's going to fall. And so far, it's been a good mix. But it's two bedroom, two bath, quads, for $985,000 The rents are going for about a total of a little over $7,000 a month. We offer in house financing trends. So we have, we are now in the money buying business.
Jim Sheils:Thankfully with the with the balance sheet we have through Sumitomo, we're able to pre buy large chunks of money with two banks that we work with. Where most people would be locking in at seven, seven and a half, we're locking our people in at 4.75 on average. Sometimes down to 4 and a quarter. That makes a huge difference. Now it's expensive.
Jim Sheils:We have to pay well-to-do that, but we're in the volume business. We would, we are, have 5,000 lots to build out in Florida, so we'd rather make a little less off each project and do volume. So that's the advantage of our people. So our quads are, this one's about $9.85, a little over $7,000 a month in rent. After all expenses, that's showing to bring in a little over $1,500 a month cash flow, net after all your expenses and the contingencies.
Jim Sheils:We do get free management for the first two years on our new construction project. So that's again, 8% monthly fee is waived. So they're bringing in about, a little over $151,500 dollars a month cash flow, which will end up being about a cash on cash return of right around 11%. And then we do some really basic growth patterns from there. About 4% rental growth a year, which we've totally beat that average, but we like to stay low.
Jim Sheils:And about 5% on equity growth, which again, for areas like Jacksonville and other markets that we build in, we feel good about that. Another side thing on that trend, we're not in Miami. We're not in Tampa. We're not in Orlando. In fact, when you're hearing about, oh, I heard things have really slowed up in Florida or values have dropped a bit or rents.
Jim Sheils:We have seen that. And it's in the major three markets where the run up was very, very high compared to the rest of Florida. We had growth, but not what they had. So we like these second tier markets. The Jacksonvilles, the Ocallas, the Greater Fort Myers area, Palm Coast.
Jim Sheils:These are the areas that we focus on building in because we know there's needs, there's better affordability, and stronger fundamentals at this point. And now here's a word from our sponsor.
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Trent Werner:Uptown syndication is now offering a syndication coaching program for you to take your real estate portfolio to the next level. This is your opportunity to have experienced syndicators, AJ and Chris Shepherd, coach you on your way to controlling your real estate investing future. Our coaching program will provide you with the tools and framework needed to begin syndicating real estate in your target market. Go to uptownsyndication.com today to learn more. How long does a project like this typically take from, you know, acquiring the lot to, I guess, selling off the first completed structure?
Jim Sheils:For us, it can take a few years. Like I said, like this piece of land in Burkhovsky, we were surprised we got quads approved in this area because it's they're you know, they're that's the thing about quads. They're they're kind of unicorns, right? When you look around an area, I don't know your area, but you say, oh, let me look for quads. Normally they were built a long time ago.
Jim Sheils:There's not a lot of these residential quads being built. But we got it approved. That took a few years from approvals going through, getting it built. For our clients though, how long are they waiting? I mean, they can close in thirty five days.
Jim Sheils:That's the nice thing. We're on what's called a continual build cycle. So, yep, years ago, we used to do it the same way as other builders. Take a deposit, then we can start building and, hey, we'll deliver to you in twelve months. Pretty standard.
Jim Sheils:Now that we're building on our own dime and we're not required by any banks we work with, to get a pre construction deposit and contract before we start building, we can build and put it out when it's at the point of CL, which is certificate of occupancy, which means people who have a ten thirty one exchange or are ready to move their money, we can literally close in thirty, thirty five days with our in house financing. So they don't have a normal wait time, which they're used to with other new construction projects.
Trent Werner:Alright. Okay. And then from the first completed one, I know you're probably building multiple at one time. How long does the actual construction take to finish in this case, 12 quadplexes?
Jim Sheils:You know, Trent, that's a good question. And we try to we try to go in tranches and phases where you're finishing more like two buildings at a time and then space out to fill two more buildings at a time to finish two more buildings at a time. So that's going to lag out, you know, an extra four to six months because we don't want to put too much on the markets at once. Kind of want to do that slow release.
Trent Werner:This is just a a side question because I it just popped in my head. But I have some clients that I've worked with. They're friends of mine here in my area that invest in, I wanna say it's Tampa, maybe. But they bought two or three townhouses or duplexes or whatever they were, in a build to rent fashion. And so, you know, I'm assuming you guys aren't the only ones doing this.
Trent Werner:Obviously, you're in multiple areas across Florida. But how popular is this model, especially in Florida? It's not it's not popular here in Oregon. So I'm curious how popular it is down there.
Jim Sheils:It's definitely popular because there was such a demand on growth that they were needing housing. Like, before the the pandemic even started, we the, like, Fort Myers showed that they were three years behind on needed rental inventory then in, like, 02/2019. So we've always had a we've had a housing shortage here since o eight. So they that makes it, I think, they're they're they're more pro building than, like, you know, probably where where you are, other areas where I was in California because the the the dire need of housing. Honestly, Trent, the the model has gotten too popular.
Jim Sheils:And that's I want this is something that people wanna hear. Be careful. Right now, we are in in the midst of helping out dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of individual buyer clients that went to other builders. Paid for the lot. Put up an initial deposit.
Jim Sheils:We're waiting for the builder to start for two, three years, and now the builders are not looking good with their financial solvency. And here they are. They've been sitting on a lot or they've gotten a construction loan. A first draw has been taken out, and they're in a pickle. And we're trying to help these people.
Jim Sheils:So I would always recommend to people, you know, look at the financial viability of the builder you're working with. Look at how are they are they working, you know, with a focus in building turnkey, new construction rental properties? Or is it kind of a side dabble? Because these things can really make or break you for for for what you're dealing with. And also, can you buy completed product or do you have to wait?
Jim Sheils:You know, at this point, every all builders, even the top nationals, you had to wait in, you know, the COVID era because the supply chains and other issues. But now, you know, a builder with a strong balance sheet should be able to deliver you a new construction home pretty quickly. So but but again, I tell you all this trend because it's gotten too popular and I can there's at least three to four builders we've seen go under and leave hundreds of clients in in quite a situation. And that's something you want to be careful of.
Trent Werner:Well, and that's probably I mean, to what you were just saying, that's probably having to do with the barrier of entry when it comes to new construction. Obviously, you're waiting, you know, years before you're ever seeing a dime come back, and when you, you know, start renting it or refinance it or whatever. Would you say that that's most of the problem?
Jim Sheils:It it is. But also, I think builders got a little out over their skis. And like I I said, Trent, like the big guys, they have no interest in doing what we do. The big builders. They're dabbling a little bit, but they certainly have no desire to build duplexes and quads.
Jim Sheils:Those are total foreign concepts to the large national builders. And the thing about doing smaller new construction turnkey rentals, there's smaller margins. The big guys like big margins, and that's why they're big. Hey, it's their business model. And and I think sometimes if you try to you think, oh, well, yeah.
Jim Sheils:No. No. I get it. Smaller margins. But I'm gonna try to force a bigger margin.
Jim Sheils:It doesn't work. Something doesn't, you know, come together. And, you know, you kind of you're you're you're putting yourself in a really bad situation for everyone. And so, yeah, that's it's it's just something something to keep both eyes open on.
Trent Werner:Now my my follow-up question for you on the the metrics and the performance of these deals that you guys are building. You know, you mentioned cash on cash between 11%, typically for that, you know, with those contingencies and everything like that. How does that stack up or compare to something that's preexisting? If an investor was looking at two quadplexes, one that was built in February, the other one that is 2024 built from you guys.
Jim Sheils:Yeah, well, you don't find many quads, at least here. Let's stick here with Northeast Florida Jacksonville built in 2020. Right? The quads are like from 1965, '19 '70 '2. Like it's older.
Jim Sheils:And if I've learned anything, I actually we have a book out called The Passive Income Playbook. It became a best seller. It's about my 25 journey, my wife's, into owning a ton of, you know, older fixer upper homes and going to new construction. And my big lesson, Trent, was own less of better quality. Just own less of better quality.
Jim Sheils:And the reason why, which ties in with your question, the the pro formas are are are a starting point. You know, to see what can this property do. But when the rubber hits the road on a new construction property compared to an older construction property, possibly not in as good area or marginal area, A lot of surprises can happen to that pro form a that don't play out right. You know, and it's just something I've personally learned. I own old houses.
Jim Sheils:I've, you know, still own some and they did well for me. But there is a lot more involvement, a lot more setback. And so we've seen that you're going to take a lower estimated cash flow upfront with our new construction. But if you really look out like a five year window, and we've been able to assess this after doing hundreds and hundreds of the the old construction properties, the fixture uppers to the new. And it just plays out better.
Jim Sheils:A couple of reasons why our tendency went from one year to average to three years. Our turn costs on turning unit went down 70%. You know, these things all really catch up. And those first few years are so pinnacle to make sure it goes right. And also, and then, you know, I used to call it the three year curse.
Jim Sheils:I don't know if you've ever had this. I could do new roof, new heating, cooling, plumbing, and update kitchens, bath, electric. I know that after about year three on these older homes, I budget higher for maintenance and repairs. It just happens. And maybe it's the area or the way they were built.
Jim Sheils:It just happens. We haven't seen that being ten years in now on the new construction. That three year curse hasn't really hit with larger, you know, repair bills. And those can really surprise people. So we will never try to match the cash flow of a of a Midwest small single family home, you know, to one of our single family homes on the pro form a.
Jim Sheils:But the actual performance seems to do better. And that's why I don't even sell old fixer uppers anymore. We only work in new construction.
Trent Werner:Yeah. And that's a that's a good point when it comes to the expense side of things, when you're comparing a nineteen sixties to the 2024 new construction. I mean, it's it's obvious it's it jumps off the page when it comes to reduce those expenses and maintenance and repairs, which, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Jim Sheils:Yeah. Yeah. It's been a big lesson for me. A painful lesson in some ways.
Trent Werner:Yeah. I do. I mean, I deal with deal with it in our portfolio. We have a lot of like eighties, nineties multifamily. And, you know, you can tell that it's our job to do the deferred maintenance and get those places looking good again.
Jim Sheils:Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that trend. It's just a lot of the people we work with, like our avatar buyer, they're very successful in another career. And they wanna be exposed to real estate, but not build a team from scratch, you know, do all the work from a market from afar. You know, we have a lot of people from the West Coast that come out to us because our our our numbers are about a third of the price, you know, and that's pretty attractive, at least from where I was in Central California.
Jim Sheils:And, but they don't wanna recreate the wheel. And so for people who are willing to be more involved, I say, yeah, the older properties, you know, if you have time and you like involvement, they can be great. And that's what got me my big start. But if you're wanting less involvement, you're only wanting to give a few hours a month to owning rental property, I highly recommend considering a more new construction route. Again, own less of better quality.
Jim Sheils:That's that's been my big for for most of our clients.
Trent Werner:Very nice. Did we not cover anything that you wanted to talk about today?
Jim Sheils:No, I think we hit pretty well on just, you know, how did this all happen? It's not certainly anything I have planned out. Just kind of, we got some signs and signals to move in a direction, and, and we're definitely glad we did. No niche is perfect, but the new construction has definitely been an eye opener.
Trent Werner:Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing, you know, some of the insight on the build to rent new construction, especially when it comes to the two, two and four unit assets that maybe get overlooked when everyone's talking about subdivisions of single family homes all the time.
Jim Sheils:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and one thing too, Trent, that's one thing. When people hear build to rent, they think sometimes, okay, we're we're gonna get a a 200 lot neighborhood and build all rental properties. And people do that. We've been we've been hired by some of the larger institutions and hedge funds to do that.
Jim Sheils:However, the way we like to do it with more of our individual clients, and we work with thousands of them now, is we like to go into existing neighborhoods that have, you know, good crime index, you know, positive area, close to good schools in this, and buy up all the individual lots that are vacant in an already existing neighborhood and build our single family homes and duplexes there. Or if we get a big track of land, you know, we did one, our largest in Jackson was a thousand lots. Well, we only kept a little over 200 of lots for our own build to rent model. And the other, you know, 800 we sold to National Home Builders who built in this big community. They're nice homes around for retail primary owner buyers.
Jim Sheils:And we mixed in our rental properties in the neighborhood. So it doesn't always have to be an all rented neighborhood. You know, like some of these big institutions that you can get a blend of homeowners and renters in one area. And we kind of liked that. That was the rule I was taught as a landlord when I first started buying rental property.
Jim Sheils:Hey, go to a neighborhood that's, you know, priced around the median or a little below, and there's a mixture of homeowners and renters. And so we've tried to keep that in our our new construction model as well.
Trent Werner:That's actually a very, very, very good point that you just made, talking about, you know, have that mix of homeowners and renters. I see it in our biggest development in my area right now is 20,000 homes when it's all said and done. But they have apartment complexes and townhomes and duplexes in the section of it, you know, mixed all in together with those new homes until you just said that I didn't even think about it. I've seen it, but I didn't think about it in that in that way.
Jim Sheils:Yeah, no, it's been a big deciphering factor for us in our strategy for sure.
Trent Werner:Very nice. Well, Jim, where can people connect with you? Maybe they can check out your book. Where can they find more about you?
Jim Sheils:If you want to go, just go to JJPlaybook.com. That's something my wife and I wrote up on our journey and about the book you released. You're able to get some of the free downloads and first few chapters of the book. The book's available Amazon, Martin's and Noble, wherever books are sold. But that'll give you a good idea of kind of what is this new construction turnkey real estate about?
Jim Sheils:How does it work? And and there's a lot of success stories in there, not mine, but a lot of our clients.
Trent Werner:Very nice. Well, Jim, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us today.
Jim Sheils:Great. Thanks for having me, Trent.
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