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The podcast industry is booming, but what does it take to succeed in this ever-changing landscape? Join us as we dive into the business side of podcasting, exploring the latest trends, challenges, and opportunities.
From directory consolidation to show monetization, we'll cover everything you need to know to navigate the podcasting world. We'll also chat with industry experts and successful podcasters to get their insights and advice.
Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or just starting out, we hope The Podcast Podcast will become a valuable tool in your own journey. So, grab your headphones, and let's get down to business!
Welcome to the podcast podcast, the podcast about podcasting from TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright.
Andy:The home of podcasters like Pete and me. I'm Andy Nelson.
Pete:Andy, this is our 3rd episode, and I, I come to you with an update.
Andy:I like updates, Pete.
Pete:I thought that you might. Actually, I have 2 updates. And the first one is an update to our AI conversation last time. We talked about AI, being used for transcriptions. And at the time, we talked about Whisper, I believe, we talked about some of the tools that we use, and in the wind, there was this, upcoming feature in our own host, Transistor FM, where they were going to start doing podcasting, giving podcasting credits for a fee, to podcasters to be able to transcribe using AI, their podcast in the system.
Pete:And it would add the transcripts to the the actual you could find them on the actual social sharing page. And since we had that conversation, they have actually released that feature. And so it's in the wind. We know a little bit more about it now. And I I think that's the that's the important bit.
Pete:We now know what it actually does. And have you watched the video of the the transcription feature in action?
Andy:Yeah. It's slick. It's nice that they are that they've created a tool that's as well integrated as it is. And it looks like it's a pretty it works pretty cleanly. And that's something that I really like about them.
Andy:I like about Transistor in general, really.
Pete:The the thing that is is the coolest, you know, one of the things we talked about, I believe we talked about last time was that the, AI transcription tool that we were using just on our our workstations does not do voice detection. It doesn't do participant detection. But Transistor has built in an incredible interface for actually, it does the transcription and then it remembers the voices so you can you can tell it, hey, this is, you know, so and so, and this is so and so too, and it will separate their voices in the transcript, and it remembers that. My understanding is it remembers it over time. This is still a very new feature and we haven't used it to transcribe many things but, it is a really slick interface and seeing it in action is is very impressive.
Pete:I think the, you know, the the, fee that they are adding on to your to your, plan is super reasonable too for $50 per year. You get 300 minutes of transcription per month. So $50 a year, 300 minutes per month. And for $200 per year, you get 1200 minutes per month. Those, it appears, are the only two levels right now.
Pete:But depending on, you know, how much you're podcasting, it's it's a pretty screaming deal compared to other services.
Andy:And it is malleable also. Like, you can go in and once you have the transcript, it's tweakable. Like, if you say, well, they didn't quite they didn't quite understand what we were talking about here, you can modify it and and save those modifications in there. So
Pete:Yeah. Yeah. Pretty important. And you can download it. I mean, they're not locked to transistor.
Pete:Right? You can actually download the file. You can actually download the, the the transcripts appropriate for YouTube, like SRT transcripts and put them in YouTube and use them as captions on a video version of your of your show. It's it is, I think one of the slickest implementations that I've seen and I I think it's, it it's pretty smart. So we're gonna be investing more in, you know, using this transcription tool, especially for shows that aren't, you know, that we aren't transcribing already in other means.
Pete:I'm I'm very excited about it.
Andy:Yeah. Very much very much so.
Pete:Andy, I have I have another update. And I know because I know your love of of spreadsheets that you're going to be very excited about this one.
Andy:You know me all too well.
Pete:We we talked a bunch last time around about the move to YouTube and YouTube becoming a podcast. YouTube Music in particular becoming a closer to a 1st tier podcast app. And this is I this is really interesting to me as a nerd. When you connect your RSS feed for your show to YouTube using YouTube Studio, You create a new podcast in YouTube Studio, you paste in your RSS feed, and what YouTube does, as we discussed, is it goes through one time and it downloads your entire RSS feed and creates effectively YouTube video versions that are just your show art, for YouTube. And so now your podcast is on YouTube but it's audio only.
Pete:Now the challenge with that as a podcaster is what we assumed was that we would get no data passed through YouTube as for as to listeners of the RSS feed. So when you're listening to the show, you the data isn't tracked where you normally would get your statistics, and those stats are in your podcast host or Chartable or wherever you're you're tracking your your data. But this is what I have discovered, Andrew. Bafflingly. YouTube Music, the app, the mobile app, when you listen to a podcast on the mobile app that has been uploaded by RSS feed, YouTube is pulling from the RSS feed itself, not from the video that it created for YouTube.
Pete:So YouTube Music podcast listeners are in fact contributing to your RSS stats on your platform, wherever your RSS feed is hosted. You don't have to go into YouTube itself, into YouTube Studio, and look at the individual podcast playlist stats that you have access to. And in fact, those stats, I imagine, will be, probably a bit deflated, at least to start compared to YouTube musics, which is, you know, where people have been taught to go get their podcast. So I think it's fascinating Yeah. That there is this bifurcation in YouTube, but it is a benefit to podcasters that, you know, we we actually get stats where we want our stats.
Andy:That's interesting. It just speaks to the nature of YouTube and the nature of podcasts in general and and people's expectations of them. You know? Is it a video? Is it a you know, do I watch it on TikTok where you can also tap into the podcasting world?
Andy:It's like all of these different platforms are getting into the podcasting game realizing there's something there, but then they're incorporating some of their own elements into it and kind of transforming the world of podcasting in other mediums as well. And that's something that's kind of interesting to see how podcasting is evolving, perhaps some of it beyond just audio, you know, into video podcasts and things like that. Like, we're getting a wider variety of what podcasting means. And it does make me wonder as YouTube starts bifurcating its, the analytics, essentially, for the different versions of each episode that it will be having hosted in different places, How will that start shaping, just how YouTube is treating them in general? Like, is it going to actually separate?
Andy:Is it going to kind of create its own separate thing for if you're wanting to make a video of YouTube, it's over here. If it's audio only, like, are they gonna have a, you know, an actual split within YouTube that turns into the video version, the audio version, you know, as opposed to one that is essentially getting split anyway.
Pete:Yeah. And it's that's very confusing. I think that's just very confusing. And it's just a further sign that YouTube, I I think is YouTube's trying. I I really do believe there are people of goodwill and lovers of podcasts over at YouTube who are trying to figure out how to morph this massive platform into something that works for this relatively small corner of it, us podcasters.
Pete:And so far, it looks promising. Does it deliver? We'll see. I mean, it's very, very new, and the Google Podcast app is just on the verge of closing down, now that we're into March of 2024. So, you know, we'll see how this plays out in the coming weeks months.
Pete:But so far, I'm, pleased to say that most of our shows, not all of our archives, but most of our shows are up there and tracking, and who knows where those RSS links are gonna show up. I I think the the current thinking is, for now, they will be showing up in your RSS stats as an unknown player, at which, you know, at least we'll be able to attach some meaning to that. So there you go.
Andy:It does it also makes me wonder, you know, Apple usually is how has, like, the number one hold on where people listen to their podcasts. Although, Spotify in a number of places is number 1, and Apple's number 2. Those 2 are the dominant forces as far as where people are listening. I'm curious as YouTube starts developing more of its own tools and, apps and whatever to be specific to audio podcasting, are we going to see that jump up and potentially become an one of the top 3? You know?
Andy:I'm curious
Pete:how that evolves. I I don't think that would be a terrible thing for one reason, and I think we've mentioned this, that YouTube is I I, you know, I I don't have data to support this. I don't have anyone who says that any otherwise either, but to me and the people that I interact with online, YouTube is the de facto de facto standard for sharing media online. Right? Yeah.
Pete:And to add podcast to the mix, I think, is opportunistic for us as podcasters to give potential listeners an easier way to actually or a more expected way to actually listen to single episodes of our show. It's predictable. It's something they've likely seen before. I just makes it makes a ton of sense to me, and I'd be surprised if we don't see an uptick in in just raw sharing of individual episodes to showcase what we do. Yeah.
Pete:Right. So
Andy:Well and and think about it. Because right now, if we share you can share, like, a direct, MP 3 link that basically opens up a play bar in a window that somebody can listen to. So they can hear an episode that way. Or you can share the site, the website where the pay where the link lives, and it has the all of our information. But and that's probably more akin to getting a link shared through, like, YouTube link.
Andy:Because, like, the nice thing about having an actual YouTube link is it's gonna have access to all of the other episodes. And so if they're not sharing our like, a direct website page of the episode that has more information about the show, the YouTube is gonna be that other version of it. And, again, as you said, people are used to YouTube links. It's like, okay. YouTube.
Andy:Yeah. And then then I can see what else it recommends. And, eventually, we'll all get to, Gangnam Style.
Pete:Is that what we all get back to?
Andy:Isn't that what they said? Like, YouTube, all the algorithms, if you just keep following it, everything eventually always leads to
Pete:Always gets you back to Gangnam Scott. Okay.
Andy:Yeah.
Pete:Well, then I know what I have to look forward to, and I have not been doing due diligence. I should have reached it by now, for sure. Next topic, which I'm I hope I'm not too surprising you with, which is, you attended the, What's New in Apple Podcasting event last week. They had they hold these apparently quarterly, and I was not invited because, I don't know, I missed an email. And and I wanted to just do a quick refresher about what we learned out of that out of that particular, online event.
Andy:Yeah. I mean, it was a a great update of Apple Podcasts, which, you know, again, it's a very popular app for podcasting. It can be frustrating and clumsy, but, you know, there's a lot of good stuff in it. They talked a lot about the transcripts and how the transcripts on Apple Podcast is this big new thing and how, basically, for your shows, everything is gonna get auto transcribed. It's not like what we've we're talking about earlier.
Andy:It's gonna be just a munged translation of everything that is said. It's not separating out speakers. It's a essentially closed caption version of the show without identifying people. What's nice about it, though, is it auto generates the transcript anytime there's a change made in the episode itself. So if you have dynamic ad insertion and your ad changes every month or whatever, it's going to give you a new transcript for that new ad as soon as it's changed.
Andy:If you edit an episode because, who knows, maybe information changed, a guest wanted to pull a quote that they said because it it wasn't the right attribution, who knows what, and you edit the episode, you re upload it. The, as soon as the app recognizes that there has been a change in the episode, it will retranscribe it. So it's always gonna be showing you the version that when somebody's listening, that's exactly what they're getting. Plus, it just looks really pretty. Like, they've made it look like it's got the show art colors behind it and everything.
Andy:It's just it's really nice what Apple has done with that. That was a big part of the conversation. They also talked a lot about subscription strategies, the way that Apple is helping work, very easily, much like when you're buying an app or something to subscribe to a show. It's exactly like that now. It's it's very easy how you can subscribe through Apple, and they're working with other platforms as well for memberships and everything for subscriptions.
Andy:So, you know, they they had a lot of great, tips and tools, and it's, definitely worth for anyone who's interested in in how Apple Podcasts is working and how you can best utilize what they're offering for your own shows. You know, see if you can get on the mailing list for for these, what's new, sessions that they do quarterly and and just, you know, see what else they're talking about.
Pete:There there were a couple of things that snuck by that I thought were really interesting, and and one of them is around podcast categorization.
Andy:Oh, yes. Yes.
Pete:They updated the categories list and elevated 9 subcategories, mental health relationships, personal journals, documentary entrepreneurship, self improvement books, parenting and language learning. These new categories have been added to the search tab in the app alongside all the other main categories. That is, I I think anytime they update the categories is a time to revisit your podcast because new categories mean new top lists. And isn't it great to have your podcast suddenly show up on a on a what's new list with greater frequency just by virtue of the fact that you were the one who who kinda jumped in early to recategorize your show. I think that's interesting.
Pete:The the last one that that I think is probably worth talking about, but another one that we are not as experienced using is the new partnership with Linkfire.
Andy:It's a marketing tool kit or they have a marketing tool kit that you can use. It's got smart links. You can create customized landing pages, all sorts of stuff to really help promote your show. And, yeah. They're they're working with Apple to, to more directly, kind of create a compatibility between Apple pod or shows that are on Apple Podcasts with their, Linkfire search engines.
Pete:It does make a ton of sense because Linkfire was originally, my understanding was it's much more a music discovery tool to create landing pages for new music and prereleases and all kinds of things. And now I think this collaboration will probably be really useful for podcasters, create customizable landing pages, help discovery, recent episodes, and and to do it in a way that is aligned with whatever your podcast brand is. Also some analytics notes. You can see what links are driving listens and plays, follows, and even subscriptions on Apple Podcasts. So there there is a a much more sort of intimate, analytic relationship with exploring through, Podcast Connect.
Andy:We'll certainly be doing some exploration of it ourselves just to see how we can better integrate it and if it makes sense to use fully with some of our shows. But it seems like a promising opportunity.
Pete:Andy, I have a topic. Oh, a topic. I do. So I, you know, I was at this reunion, a little while back, and somebody came up to me at the end of the reunion who says, hey. I just started a podcast.
Pete:I hear you podcast. Tell me everything I need to know about podcasting. Wow. I love I
Andy:love this question. How much time did they give you?
Pete:Yeah. Right. Right. We had a delightful conversation and are obviously connected because, you know, part of the same alumni group and, so it's been really fun to kind of rethink how I approach listening to a podcast. And I'm I'm curious from you, as somebody who has been podcasting since now 2011.
Pete:Mhmm. And, you know, your take on finding your podcast identity, your podcast voice. And and what I mean is, how do you know that who you are presenting to the audience is the guy that's gonna connect with that audience because I think it's safe to say that you and I behave differently with each other when we're not on a microphone than we do when we're on a microphone. Right? And figuring out what the general vibe, the humor, the, you know, seriousness or severity of a given show is kind of important in figuring out how you're gonna relate to the people who are listening.
Pete:Do you have any do you have any does that ever struck you?
Andy:I suppose any time you're you're figuring out how to have a conversation about a particular topic on a show, I I mean, there is an element that you do need to think about. Okay. How do I how do I wanna have this conversation in a way that's appropriate for the topic, but also is it it doesn't turn into just me talking like a robot. You know, I I you want the audience to still find some human connection there. I mean, that's why people tune into podcasts.
Andy:And so Yeah. It's I it's an interesting question because I don't suppose that I've actually thought about it overtly as, like, I'm coming up. What is gonna be my podcast persona for this particular show? Like, I haven't really approached it from that perspective, but it's it is worth evaluating because it's definitely something that I, internalize. It's, you know, it's because it's not like we're actors where we have to come up with our character and we're writing down a journal to like, this is my backstory.
Andy:Like, it's not quite that that far. At least it hasn't been for me. Maybe some people.
Pete:You're right.
Andy:This is my broadcaster backstory.
Pete:It's just like, you know, once I was a deep c minor, and that's who I'm presenting as.
Andy:Right. But but still there is a level of, you also don't wanna sound like a news presenter necessarily where somebody who's just reading the news and then on to the next story, whether it's a happy story and then a sad story, but I'm gonna have the same tone and now it's, you know, like, there's there's an element of of finding your internal connection to it regardless and and but I I I don't know. I guess for me, it's always been more of an internal thing.
Pete:I I'm I agree with you. And I I think it's, you know, it's I I think back because we host multiple shows. Right? We and and I think there is, to some extent, a difference in sort of persona or personality that we bring to each of those shows, as you say, depending on the content. I listened to a few episodes of this particular show, and it is it's a great show.
Pete:It is produced by a person who is incredibly bright in the area of AI. And, it's a very technical show. It is chronicling the journey that he's taking, to building a profession just out of grad school and building a profession, in AI technology, right, as an ecosystem engineer, as a technologist. And I learned stuff off this show. And my number one comment was, I don't think you're having any fun.
Pete:And the podcast is designed to explore these topics that, ostensibly, the host is excited about. Right? This is I'm teaching things on this show that I'm excited to do for the rest of my life. Right? Like, I'm excited to interview these people.
Pete:And it was it was clear and, cogent and well structured and nothing wrong with the content that I could find. It just didn't build that spark of connection that I felt like as a listener brought me on the journey with him. And I think that is what I wanna poke out of this, of this part of the show today, which is what is it that you use to bring people into the show with you? What is it that you what is it about tone and expressiveness and, and and your approach to that identity that builds the intimacy of that relationship between you and the listener, between the microphone and the headphone, because that's that's what we're trying to do.
Andy:I think a lot of it, regardless of whether it's a show you do by yourself or a show where you have a regular cohost or a show where you have a different guest every time. I feel like there's a level of conversational energy that needs to be that you need to find. And I suppose that's part of it is like a genuine interest in the topic always helps. But also finding that, performative way to kind of, like, connect with somebody where it's you're connecting with the person you're talking with as if they're another friend of yours who's really into the same thing too. And and just having that energy and that conversational style where it's, it, you know, it feels more animated, I guess.
Andy:I you know, in the in the scope of doing voice over, I, you know, used to do, voice over, performing. And it's definitely something, like, you need to think about in a way, it is kind of like acting, but you're you're bringing these different levels to the way that you talk. You know? So because some people can be very excited about something, but it all comes across in a very monotone way, and it's just like this is just like the most exciting thing in the world. They may be excited, but there needs to be that that external expression, I think, that comes along with that.
Andy:Because audio, even if their face looks excited, you're only hearing it. And that's something I think sometimes people don't necessarily remember.
Pete:Yeah. I I think that's really true. And I this goes back to something we talk about, quite a bit when we're onboarding new podcasters or new clients who wanna start podcasts. It's the idea that you have this listener avatar. And, you know, knowing who you're talking to makes a huge difference.
Pete:And we talk about, you know, actually paint that picture. Right? You know, you don't have to actually paint a picture. I don't care what you do. But you actually describe for yourself in writing, who is the person I'm talking to right now?
Pete:What are they what are they interested in? What do they drive? Because, actually speaking to right now? And keep them in your mind when you're podcasting. Right?
Pete:Because for me, it's always Andy. Even if it I'm not on a show, I just I always imagine Andy. I'm he's the guy I talk to all the time. But it gives me somebody to, at least in my mind, respond to when I'm speaking. Right?
Pete:It gives even if I'm doing a solo show, I can I can speak as if the person who I know is listening to the show, that listener avatar, I give them a name, and I just pretend I'm talking right to them, And I'm trying to convince them of some perspective, and that changes the way my voice works? That changes my level of intensity and the the variation of my tone, and it makes, I hope, a little bit more a compelling statement that reminds listeners to stay engaged, to keep listening, to to stay on board the the the the train.
Andy:It is interesting because there are there is a performative aspect to it for sure. You know? But Yeah. It's interesting when you just listen to people, especially people who are really good, like actors or anyone who's just really good at emoting and how they come across. Like, if you listen to an audiobook by, where I I don't know if Meryl Streep has ever done one, but if you find something actually, I think she did.
Andy:I think I listened to with the kids. I think it was like the Velveteen Rabbit or something. And even just simple expressions, like, you can get so much across that just draws you right in. And that's, you know, what we're talking about. You don't have to be bringing Meryl Streep levels to it, but just find that that when you have that vision, as Pete was saying, with, like, the avatar of, like, the that you're talking to, talking with, talking, that person should be someone you're really excited to have this conversation with.
Andy:And, like, that can help you find that level of that performative tone.
Pete:And I will just say, Meryl Streep has done
Andy:30 audiobooks, Andy. 30. Well, see, she's great. And the Velveteen Rabbit, that's a great one.
Pete:She's on a bunch of Nora Ephron, and, oh, she and Anne Patchett are besties. Lot of Ann Patchett work, on that. I think that's exactly right. Like, figuring out what that tone is, and and I would just say, give yourself some grace to figure it out. There are people who don't discover their podcast voice for a specific show for a year of work, just trying different things, trying different different tools, different vocal tools, different different expressions, different ways to script or versus improvise.
Pete:It takes time to figure it out, but that's the goal. Once you figure it out, once you find that voice, that that can level up your podcasting significantly. So never stop searching, I guess. That's the idea. Don't stop searching.
Pete:Don't stop believing.
Andy:I think that's it. I think that's a good episode. Lots of lots of stuff to talk about.
Pete:Lots of stuff stuff to talk about. Thank you, everybody, so much for hanging out and listening to this episode of The Podcast Podcast, a podcast about podcasting from TruStory FM. You can find us online, over TruStory FM, of course. And, we would love it if you would subscribe. And, you know, as long as you're checking out Apple Podcast transcripts when they come out in iOS 17.4, probably in a week, from when we record this, then you should leave us a review
Andy:over there.
Pete:You know, we've never asked for reviews on this show, the podcast about podcasting. And we would love to have you give us a kind 5 stars. 5 stars, what are you doing with them? Nothing. You're not doing that.
Andy:You just what
Pete:are you just hanging on to them? So we appreciate it. Thank you for your help. Go. Let them flow.
Pete:Yes. If you love something, you have to set it free. And we'll catch you next week right here on the podcast podcast.
Andy:Bye.