What happens when obsession becomes a refuge, when a high score becomes a legacy, and when a rivalry turns into a morality play? This week on Make Me A Nerd, Mandy Kaplan goes deep into the pixelated world of Donkey Kong, a place where the stakes are high, the egos are massive, and the quarters just keep coming. Mandy is joined by Megan Isser, a former documentary filmmaker turned professor of film, who brings her nuanced lens to the unlikely drama chronicled in the cult-classic documentary The King of Kong.
This isn’t just a story about a video game—it’s a story about identity, community, and the fraught pursuit of greatness.
Billy Mitchell, the reigning champion with a penchant for arrogance and hot sauce, becomes the perfect foil for Steve Wiebe, the underdog science teacher whose life has been a series of almosts—almost a great athlete, almost a great musician, almost a winner. The film, directed by Seth Gordon, captures their rivalry with the precision of a Donkey Kong hammer smashing barrels, raising larger questions about what it means to devote yourself to something utterly niche, but deeply important.
Megan and Mandy dissect the film’s narrative structure, its unforgettable cast of characters (from Walter Day’s referee stripes to Brian Kuh’s kill-screen evangelism), and the fine line between celebrating nerd culture and mocking it. They also explore the documentary’s impact on the genre itself, as well as the ethical choices filmmakers face when portraying their subjects.
Is Billy Mitchell the villain we want him to be? Is Steve Wiebe the hero we need him to be? And what does it all say about the lengths we’ll go to for recognition, even in an arcade?
This episode is a love letter to obsession and the people who find meaning in the unlikeliest places. But it’s also a meditation on humanity, on what drives us to compete, to connect, and to care.
Press play. Because somewhere in the background, a Donkey Kong cabinet is still buzzing, and a potential kill screen is always looming.
--- Learn more about supporting this podcast by becoming a member. It's just $5/month or $55/year. Visit our website to learn more.
Chapters
Welcome to Make Me A Nerd
Introducing Megan Isser
King of Kong
Support the Show! Join the Club!
What happens when obsession becomes a refuge, when a high score becomes a legacy, and when a rivalry turns into a morality play? This week on Make Me A Nerd, Mandy Kaplan goes deep into the pixelated world of Donkey Kong, a place where the stakes are high, the egos are massive, and the quarters just keep coming. Mandy is joined by Megan Isser, a former documentary filmmaker turned professor of film, who brings her nuanced lens to the unlikely drama chronicled in the cult-classic documentary The King of Kong.
This isn’t just a story about a video game—it’s a story about identity, community, and the fraught pursuit of greatness.
Billy Mitchell, the reigning champion with a penchant for arrogance and hot sauce, becomes the perfect foil for Steve Wiebe, the underdog science teacher whose life has been a series of almosts—almost a great athlete, almost a great musician, almost a winner. The film, directed by Seth Gordon, captures their rivalry with the precision of a Donkey Kong hammer smashing barrels, raising larger questions about what it means to devote yourself to something utterly niche, but deeply important.
Megan and Mandy dissect the film’s narrative structure, its unforgettable cast of characters (from Walter Day’s referee stripes to Brian Kuh’s kill-screen evangelism), and the fine line between celebrating nerd culture and mocking it. They also explore the documentary’s impact on the genre itself, as well as the ethical choices filmmakers face when portraying their subjects.
Is Billy Mitchell the villain we want him to be? Is Steve Wiebe the hero we need him to be? And what does it all say about the lengths we’ll go to for recognition, even in an arcade?
This episode is a love letter to obsession and the people who find meaning in the unlikeliest places. But it’s also a meditation on humanity, on what drives us to compete, to connect, and to care.
Press play. Because somewhere in the background, a Donkey Kong cabinet is still buzzing, and a potential kill screen is always looming.
--- Learn more about supporting this podcast by becoming a member. It's just $5/month or $55/year. Visit our website to learn more.
What is Make Me A Nerd with Mandy Kaplan?
Hey folks. Mandy Kaplan here. I’d like to share a bit about my intentions and mission for MMAN if you’ll indulge me. You will? Huzzah!
Look, I am a lot of things. I’m a writer, actress, mother, and lover of musicals and cats, but NOT Cats, The Musical. Give me a little bit of credit, would ya? So...throughout my life, I’ve been surrounded (and intrigued) by all things nerd. A sister who plays D&D, a Star Wars-obsessed husband, friends who love anime, comic books, video games, and...well, you get the picture. Somehow, I have always held it all at arm's length. Not to get too deep, but maybe I never thought I was smart enough to follow it. Or maybe I have control issues and have never been able to embrace fantastical things like dragons and time travel. Until now!
So, with an open mind and heart, I am ready to join this massive (and beautifully inclusive) club and GEEK THE #%$ OUT! It’s time for all my wonderfully strange friends to baptize me into NERD-DOM. Please join me on this journey. Who knows? Maybe you’ll discover or remember a side of yourself along the way. Or at least make fun of me as I try!
Mandy:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Make Me A Nerd. I'm Mandy Kaplan. And this podcast is my mission to explore all things nerd culture. I am a Swifty and a reality TV junkie and, an NFL lover, which feels out of character, but I am. And all my life, I've avoided all things science fiction and comic books and anime and video games, dungeons and dragons, video games, arcades, video games avoided it all.
Mandy:
That all ends today, and it ends with really the best guest I could possibly have to discuss this with me. I don't think she needs an introduction for anyone who knows me or has ever listened to this podcast or my last podcast, The Man Cave. This is a former documentary filmmaker and a current professor of film at SOU. This is Megan Perlin Isser.
Megan:
Hi. I'm so honored to be here. I'm such a faithful listener, and now I'm on the show. Very exciting.
Mandy:
Do you know how many shout outs I've given you? Like, do you keep track? Do you I do. Notch your bedpost?
Megan:
I yes. I I value every single shout out I get, and they're all true.
Mandy:
Well, this one's gonna be full of them because here you are.
Megan:
Yeah. Here I am shouting out.
Mandy:
Now I know you very, very well. Not a nerd.
Megan:
Not a nerd. I am a admirer of nerdom, which is why I think this particular podcast topic is relevant to me.
Mandy:
Well, you are pretty nerdy about film and documentaries specifically. So when I had this idea, you were excited. There were several films you thought of that that we could really dive in, but this was on the list, and this felt so perfect for my podcast. What did you choose even though everyone can see it on the home screen?
Megan:
Yeah. I chose the king of Kong, which is a documentary that I saw when it first launched in 2007, and it has always stuck with me. I hadn't rewatched it until now. In fact, I showed it to my students because I'm teaching a film analysis class. And I I was interested to see how it held up in my mind because at the time, it was one of those documentaries that just blew my mind because it wasn't this epic topic that most documentaries tackle, like, global warming or, you know, sticking it to the man.
Megan:
It was it was this real niche underground culture and crafted in a really, like, fiction like style, and I thought, oh, I can do this. And it was a light bulb moment for me, and I was hoping that it would also be for my students a light bulb moment and the fact that it ties into your, nerd
Mandy:
Love of video games. Yeah. The It it all
Megan:
seemed to be a a great, idea.
Mandy:
I mean, I pressed play on the trailer, and within 2 seconds, I was like, oh, yes. Yes. This is a great documentary to discuss on make me a nerd. All of the subjects of the documentary are nerdy in their own ways even though one of them thinks he's cool. Yeah.
Mandy:
So, really, if if I if I could ask you to elevator pitch oh, king of Kong. What's that?
Megan:
Right. Oh, you're so much better at these elevator pitches, but Oh, you
Mandy:
want me
Megan:
to do it? No.
Mandy:
Let's try and do it at the same time.
Megan:
It's it's a film that doesn't it's a good thing this isn't Zoom. It's a documentary that follows 2 archenemies, who are devoted to Donkey Kong, and we see the way these 2 archenemies handle their rivalries in very different ways.
Mandy:
Yes. Okay. So nailed it. This movie was directed by Seth Gordon, who Mhmm. Directed Horrible Bosses, one of my all time favorite movies.
Mandy:
Yeah. So the approach is very comedic. Yes. And it starts the first frame. I forget who's being interviewed because I immediately started typing, this is not a documentary.
Mandy:
This is a Christopher Guest documentary. Right. The way they talk about this is so deadly serious, and they the people who support video game record setting. It's all about who can set the high point score and maybe get a world record. Mhmm.
Mandy:
They are called Twin Galaxies. They have their own website, their own world. They interview 1 guy who says, I'm not into drugs. I'm not into drinking. I have a superior addiction.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
Video games. And this was this actually in 2007 that they were filming them? It felt earlier.
Megan:
It felt earlier, and I wasn't sure if that was because I'm old and I thought it felt newer then, but it actually felt like I was watching Citizen Kane or something. You know? It it really did feel old. I think it was done over the course of a few years leading up to that, but it wasn't tremendously, older than 2007. But it yeah.
Megan:
I think Donkey Kong just feels so retro.
Mandy:
And, also, their their outfits and, you know, the style of everything felt really out of date. So the they began filming in 2003.
Megan:
Okay.
Mandy:
Oh, nope. That's King Kong.
Megan:
Let's see.
Mandy:
So fun fact. King Kong began filming in 2003 and finished in 2005. After the the first couple of interviews, they cut to Walter Day. Yeah. And he is Chiron as the world's video game referee, and he is in uniform in the ref's stripes.
Mandy:
And he says I'm gonna do a dramatic reading now. I wanted to be a hero. I wanted to be the center of attention. I wanted the glory. I wanted the fame.
Mandy:
I wanted the pretty girls to come and say, hi. I see that you're good at Centipede.
Megan:
Amazing. I know. When I watched it with my students, I was, like, scanning to see who was laughing, and there there were that that one was, quite a moment. And I just I love it's such an innocent time, and I was worried that you know, I know that your podcast really doesn't wants to pay reverence to nerdom. And I was as I was watching, I was like, is this laughing at?
Megan:
Is this feeling mean? And it's I mean, there's something so just wonderful about them that I I didn't feel like it was mean. I mean, I think we can pick it apart a little bit, but, no. It was adorable, and I really, you know, respected him.
Mandy:
Walter Day? Yeah. Referee?
Megan:
Oh. Yeah.
Mandy:
I don't know that I did. I wrote, he looks like a Scooby Doo bad guy. He has, like, big bug eyes and a mustache and he he but he came around.
Megan:
He yeah. He started off that way, but I think he redeemed himself, as being a little less biased than we thought.
Mandy:
Right. Well so let's go there about the the the spirit and the tone behind this movie because I have the same note. Uh-oh. Is Seth Gordon making fun of this world? I can't imagine he didn't find all of this funny.
Mandy:
At 22 minutes in, it doesn't bother me, but I'm scared I'm gonna start feeling like a mean girl. And there's a movie that I referenced called American movie.
Megan:
Mhmm.
Mandy:
It came out late nineties, I think, but it made me deeply uncomfortable. It was making fun of these 2 lower lower middle class kids who were trying to make an independent movie. Mhmm. And these filmmakers followed their journey, and it really mocked them and mocked their their community and their status. And I I I felt deeply uncomfortable about that movie.
Mandy:
And I got worried at 22 minutes that that's how this movie was gonna make me feel. Yeah. But I think the reason this movie gets away with it is because of, Billy Mitchell. The star of this movie is
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
This guy who see it seems pretty clear he's a devotee of Tony Robbins.
Megan:
Yes. So he likes that. Yeah. And he
Mandy:
thinks he's
Megan:
the shit. Yes.
Mandy:
And he's so deeply unlikable and shady Yeah. That then I think we're allowed to mock the world because he makes it he he brings a negative thing to it. He makes us all feel like you're willing to cheat and lie maybe to maintain your Donkey Kong status, which is then we then I'm free to make fun of it. Sure.
Megan:
I mean, we can circle back to him, but the other piece of it that that balanced it out for me and didn't feel like it was mean was, Steve, the the, you know, the the the guy The challenger.
Mandy:
The character.
Megan:
The character. Thank you.
Mandy:
But say his name, please say his name. I'm gonna say it a lot. Steve Weebie. Oh, man. Weebie.
Megan:
And I have to say, that scene when his kid wants him to wipe his butt while he's trying to break the world record, like, I still whenever my little one asks me to wipe her, I still think of that scene. Daddy, wipe my butt. And every time it happens to me, I'm like, thank god I'm not trying to beat the Donkey Kong world record because I would be way madder than I am right now.
Mandy:
Well, that's a whole tangent about his parenting. But
Megan:
Yeah. Also yeah. And I'm like, oh, he was now that I'm a parent, like, he did not handle that well. Right. But his life to me also felt normal.
Megan:
Like, his wife was loving. She was frustrated and, you know, critical, but also understood how important this was to him and just wanted him to feel good about himself. And so he wasn't your typical weirdo, you know, which made the film feel normal.
Mandy:
So So the film starts with Billy Mitchell, and they they go into his history. He started playing as a teenager. He hooked up with Steve Sanders, and they became best friends who conquered the video game world. They make it seem like they were celebrities. They they they make the scope feel like you couldn't go anywhere in America without, you know, hearing about Billy Mitchell.
Megan:
Right.
Mandy:
That scope gets very small when we see the actual events that unfold. But, the way they are interviewed, it is so Christopher Guestian, but Billy Mitchell is so cocky and such a jerk. He is fantastically Pete, if you could put a picture of him in the show notes or something for everyone, he reminds me so deeply of a Ben Stiller character, specifically White Goodman in dodgeball, the bad guy who's like, Ben Stiller should play Billy Mitchell.
Megan:
Right. And that's funny because, they you know, a lot of studios wanted Seth Gordon to turn this into a fiction film be but he's like, there's nothing more you can do with this. This you know? It is so unbelievably real that you can't even mock it. But, yeah, they are such classic characters.
Megan:
But the thing is is that I do think as a documentary filmmaker and studier of the genre, they they did, I believe, manipulate Billy's character to really, demonize him, and he was very upset with the film. And He was. And He has spent
Mandy:
his life in court. Yeah. Over this film and his titles being taken away.
Megan:
Yeah. And the Guinness book and Yeah. Yeah. It's, taken over his life. He's very bitter, and and I you know, supposedly, Seth Gordon did, you know, manipulate the facts a bit so that it seemed like Billy really wasn't coming to play in person, which he would have, and I don't know.
Megan:
So there might have been some fudging there. But still, Billy is not a likable person.
Mandy:
Right. So that frees us up to root for Steve Weebie, who is just a guy who gets a Donkey Kong in his garage. He's a high school science teacher. He has little kids at home. You were saying normal, relatable guy.
Megan:
Yeah. And sorry to interrupt, but he you you saw the value of video game playing for him. You know, he has a very unique mind, and he's you know, his hand eye coordination, and and they brought that out in a way that felt like, oh, there is a value to this. This isn't just a man wasting his life away, although he sort of was.
Mandy:
But Well, it was so sad. His wife and him, and they interviewed, like, his brother and friends, they were all saying he just never succeeded. He was close to being a good athlete and failed. He was close to being a a musician and failed. He he's always been 2nd best.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
So so that is what's at stake for him when he sends in a videotape of him breaking Billy Mitchell's, record
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
They they I mean, this thing gets so unbelievable. Up until then, it's like, okay. These these weird guys take this a little too seriously, and this is a little awkward. They send spies to his house to break apart his Donkey Kong machine to see if it's street legal. Right.
Mandy:
Like I know. But they're like the men in the
Megan:
black thing.
Mandy:
Yeah. The mafia. Is that what you said? Yeah. Yes.
Mandy:
It is that's when I started going, woah. This is not just look how goofy these guys are, and they take this so seriously. But his wife said, no. You can't come in, and they went into his garage anyway and took apart his Donkey Kong machine. So menacing.
Mandy:
I know. Yes. He's, like, henchmen. We skipped over Richard, the guy whose job it is. He's not Walter Day, head of Twin Galaxy.
Mandy:
He's Walter Day's right hand, and he watches thousands of hours of people breaking the record to see if they really broke the record. That's job. I'm putting job in quotes because they're not being paid. They just created this world.
Megan:
Right. Very important business.
Mandy:
Right. And they and so they're filming Richard, and he's like, oh, yeah. I gotta watch that stack over there. That's gonna take me, you know, days, and I gotta watch that stack, and here's more video games. And then they show him working out his wrist
Megan:
I know.
Mandy:
With a half a dumbbell.
Megan:
I know. Amazing. I know.
Mandy:
I mean, it is so unbelievable. And Yeah. As a documentary filmmaker, let's say you're in his, I'm assuming, parents' basement where he lives Mhmm.
Megan:
And
Mandy:
you see the hours you know, you're you're looking at the stacks of videotape. Do you, as a filmmaker, say, hey. What's that, dumbbell on the floor? Do you do any working out? Right?
Mandy:
So that gets him to pick it up.
Megan:
Yeah. That's a fine line. You know, the purists would say you never try to direct or make things happen artificially. Of course, that's not true. Mhmm.
Megan:
I think it takes it takes instincts to feel like you're asking them to do something they would do anyways. That would be the ethical way to do it. Mhmm. But there are you know, there's definitely the producers who will create things, and they'd know inside, like, this is gold. And if to me, that feels icky.
Megan:
I wouldn't do that.
Mandy:
You wouldn't?
Megan:
No. My my hope would be that this is what he does anyways. And on the pre interview call, I know about these dumbbells, so I make sure they're around and we it's on my shot list, but, yeah, then it just it then then you're entering mean girl territory.
Mandy:
Yeah. Oh, it was a laugh out loud moment. It just I know. Oh my I I you can't believe it's real. Okay.
Mandy:
So that's back at Twin Galaxy headquarters, which is in New Hampshire. Is this all taking place in New Hampshire?
Megan:
No. Because so Steve Wiebe is in Seattle or near Seattle.
Mandy:
Right.
Megan:
And then Billy seems to be in Florida a lot,
Mandy:
crazy glued to his couch and his cordless phone.
Megan:
Yes. While his hot sauce on the shelves are selling like hotcakes, apparently. Yeah. So I think there's a bit of a triangle of locations.
Mandy:
But Twin Galaxy seems to be in New Hampshire where Fun Spot is because they're because they're all okay. So when they are interviewing Steve Wiebe and his family and his wife, and his wife is saying he came in 2nd best always, she says, Donkey Kong is his safe haven, and she's got tears in her eyes.
Megan:
Mhmm.
Mandy:
And it's just a little too sad and dark. Right? Here's this guy we wanna like, but they show him utterly ignoring his children, not just the one you mentioned. It was a string. He ignored his kids.
Mandy:
Both kids are on the couch next to him, and he's just playing a video game and ignoring them.
Megan:
And,
Mandy:
then he on the on the world record tape is when the kid is begging to have his ass wiped.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
And then there's all this footage of his little boy standing bored waiting for dad to finish playing, and dad's just ignoring him. I mean, it's there's a darkness there.
Megan:
There is, and there's a a deadness to his eyes when he's playing, and it feels very disconcerting. And
Mandy:
Mhmm.
Megan:
I wonder if it wasn't Donkey Kong, what else would it be? What's going on there? You know? Because when he's out and about and he's teaching, he seems like a very likable, lovely person. Mhmm.
Mandy:
But
Megan:
when he goes into that that zone, it's it's very, yeah, it's chilling in a way.
Mandy:
I great word. I yeah. And the fact that they're so invested, like, that his family and friends are you know, did you hear back? Did you hit make the world record? Or you know, and they're Yeah.
Mandy:
They're it's it's there's it's sad. Yes. It's sad. I mean
Megan:
yeah. And all of it re you makes me wonder about when I was watching it with the college students, obviously, the game of the video world video game world is totally different now, and it's online, and it's this epic, huge thing. And, what what are the similarities between this era of analog arcade games and what's happening now? And, does it feel like the same? Or it was is it its own beast?
Megan:
I don't know. You're surrounded by video games more than I am because
Mandy:
Yes.
Megan:
You have a teenager and all of that, but what what came up for you?
Mandy:
Well, I mean, watching Steve Weebie zone out while he played, at least he's not playing something violent. You know, what occurs to me is what if you were playing grand theft auto and just, like, drool is coming? There's no drool in the movie, but that's what it's like. He he just zombifies. Mhmm.
Mandy:
And that would be even more disconcerting. It's like video games used to not be graphically violent. So there was a harm missing.
Megan:
Gorilla bonking things on the head to get a a woman.
Mandy:
It's just
Megan:
It's not first person shooting.
Mandy:
It's right. It's not disturbing. It's cartoony. It's silly. A frog can't really cross a freeway without getting crushed.
Mandy:
So, you know, but I, these it seemed like a more innocent time, and I like the social aspect, which is something I like about, video games in my house when Casey started saying, well, can I call my friends and play on speaker phone so that we're talking? And it was like, yes. Now you're not just isolating and Mhmm. Zoning out. Mhmm.
Mandy:
And this at least was in person. They would have to go to the arcade and play. Right.
Megan:
Unless you record it. That was their version of their online, which reminds me, when I was a kid and I had a Nintendo game, I would record myself playing a perfect game, and then I'd invite my friends over without them knowing I'd put in the VHS. And they'd be playing wondering why they keep losing and why I keep winning. They're like, I swear I pressed it. And, they were playing a prerecorded video game the whole time.
Megan:
This was
Mandy:
You were you are a criminal mastermind. You're so devious, and I've heard so many of these stories. I as a kid if we were friends when we were kids, I would have told on you a lot.
Megan:
Oh, yes. You would have been out for me. You yes. Yes.
Mandy:
I'm too I was too upstanding. Yes. Now I think we've switched roles. Now I can stir up some trouble, and you're a goody goody. But but, yeah, I mean, that is hilarious.
Mandy:
And what made you think, I know what I'm gonna do? Just a practical joke of it all?
Megan:
I just loved controlling this world and watching somebody wonder why things weren't happening the way they wanted them to, and I just
Mandy:
I For those who can't see her, her eyes just went red, and steam just started rising behind her. I love controlling. Yeah. Oh, god. Well, the so when the the guys break into his video game machine, they think it's because Roy Shultz you all know Roy Shultz.
Mandy:
Right? Everyone's aware of Roy Shultz. He provided the board to go into the machine for Steve Wiebe, and they think Roy Shultz, might have messed with it and fixed it so that Steve Wiebe could break the record because he hates Billy Mitchell. And then they show a little background on who Roy Shultz is, and it is intense and completely unbelievable. He's made softcore porn, and he deems himself like a military guy with no clothes.
Megan:
It's so strange. Every character is this rabbit hole. You're just like, how is this real? And they are.
Mandy:
Yep. So now they think this is a conspiracy. Roy Schilt helped Steve Weebie, so Steve Weebie's gotta go prove himself in person at Fun Spot, quote, a sanctioned location like Fun Spot.
Megan:
It's what it's like, I don't know what makes it sanctioned. I mean, I guess they probably check all the machines, and there's a soda fountain or something.
Mandy:
Right. So they're they're touting this we're we're all gonna gather at Fun Spot. For and I'm I I did miss it. What did the digital sign say? Was there a gaming convention, or was it a competition?
Mandy:
What were they calling it when everybody gathered at fun spot?
Megan:
I don't remember what they called it. I'd have to go back. I missed that too. I don't remember.
Mandy:
Okay. But there was some sort of tournament situation where they were gonna gather at fun spot to see who could break the record. One of the questions, so I'll leave you all hanging about the tournament for a moment while I backtrack. The soundtrack on this movie is unbelievable.
Megan:
Yes. It was a huge part of it.
Mandy:
Mhmm. They're the best around. Right? I mean, they I tiger. Yeah.
Mandy:
They shelled out to the soundtrack, and it really adds to the ambiance and the tension.
Megan:
Rocky feeling of it.
Mandy:
Yes. And then I was so curious how they all communicated. This was really before email and online Internet life or at the beginning of it. So how did you know, today, an e three gaming conference would have 1,000 and 1,000 and 1,000 people and sell out hotels, and it would be this huge deal. How did Fun Spot spread the word?
Mandy:
How was it how did they know to gather
Megan:
Fun Spot? They didn't really highlight a a forum, but I'm sure they were the early days of chat rooms and lots of pagers and
Mandy:
Mhmm.
Megan:
Somehow word got out. But that being said, the crowd wasn't that huge. So I don't know how, how
Mandy:
can't even call it a crowd. It's a smattering
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
Of white guys, maybe 18 of them.
Megan:
Yeah. I was very, I was feeling self conscious of that because, gosh, was that a white guy movie.
Mandy:
Yeah.
Megan:
There was very little diversity in that movie.
Mandy:
Very little. Now this is all such a bygone era. 18 white guys sipping on their sodas, watching Steve Weby play Donkey Kong. Mhmm. What did your students think of this?
Megan:
Yeah. So the thanks for asking. The they have to analyze every film I show them, and I've been showing them some real big films, a lot of disturbing, you know, from well, Get Out to Gravity, epic films. And so I think they were probably like, what now? What are we watching?
Mandy:
Yeah. It's a tiny world.
Megan:
It is tiny, and their I have to say their analyses have been pretty thin. I'm, not surprised, but a little bummed because they don't have a lot to say. And so my hunch is that maybe what landed for me in 2007 was it is I think with reality TV, they're just more used to seeing underground worlds and getting people to say stuff that you normally wouldn't hear. For me and I can see that. At the time, I was I loved the access and the the grittiness of it, but I think it's just more accepted these days.
Mandy:
They felt feel historical to them. Whereas, you know, you're a little older than I am, but, I mean, arcades are of our generation. We remember going to arcades and standing around watching your friends play Pac Man or whatever. They don't. I I mean, maybe Dave and Buster's, but it's not the same.
Mandy:
So they don't have that arcade experience the way
Megan:
we do. When they play these types of games, it's cute because it's retro, but then they go to their real high-tech stuff over there.
Mandy:
Then they put on their VR goggles and call it a day. So, yeah, I mean, it's inter it's in interesting to me that they might think of it as historical.
Megan:
I know. They probably felt like they were watching some, like like, Singin' in the Rain or something really old. Right. Toppies. Yeah.
Megan:
But what has become clear is that the arc of the film, the narrative is very familiar and solid and clear. Mhmm. And the, you know, the the rivalry and good versus evil, that was so so clear for them that that's what they picked up on.
Mandy:
Right. Yeah. And Twin Galaxies has a pretty solid website. They still exist. Yeah.
Mandy:
And their I thought their website would look like it's from 2003, but it doesn't. Right. So if you happen to break a record, that's where you send your high scores, I guess.
Megan:
Yeah. They're legit. They serve a purpose in that world, and and I'm I believe they're still connected to the Guinness book. I didn't realize the Guinness book relied on places like that, but it makes sense. They can't It
Mandy:
makes sense.
Megan:
Monitor everything.
Mandy:
Right. Right. So I I didn't write down who said the quote. I it might be Brian Kuh, who I said is the real star of the movie Yeah. Or q.
Mandy:
I'm not sure how to say his name. So he I think he says well, I mean, it's not as hard as the decathlon or triathlon, but it's still very hard to play Donkey Kong.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
I mean, I mean, I'm just taking real quotes. Yeah.
Megan:
It it was interesting to hear, and that's another I would love a comparison to the video games of today, but it has a lot of street cred, Donkey Kong. It's apparently very hard when you get to those higher levels. And it made me anxious to watch because you only have so many lies, and if they're getting interrupted, I mean, one false move and you're done. And I I mean, I would be dead in, like, 2 seconds.
Mandy:
Well and they were all distracting Steve Weby when he was playing.
Megan:
I know.
Mandy:
I would think they would build plexiglass around him and not let anyone near him, but they're, like, sidling up next to him. Like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What screen are you on?
Mandy:
Okay. Good. Yeah. So you any traffic on the way here?
Speaker 3:
Like, they're just talking to him. I know. I'm I was surprised there were were not rules around that because,
Megan:
talking to him. I know. I'm I was surprised there were were not rules around that because that seems like tampering to me and could really lead to bad sportsmanship.
Mandy:
Right. Well, you know who wasn't talking to him? Bill Mitchell. He didn't show. He accused see, we're I'm at the first fun spot.
Megan:
Okay. Okay.
Mandy:
At the first event, he accuses Steve Wiebe of using a bad board and, you know, and he's like, the only way to prove you're real is to show up at fun spot, a sanctioned and then he doesn't show up.
Megan:
Yeah. And then the old woman, I didn't quite understand the grandma's self. Yeah. They I feel like they had a
Mandy:
lot of footage of her, and they cut it.
Megan:
It was a thin thread.
Mandy:
Billy Mitchell hands her a videotape, and he's like, I don't care if your luggage doesn't make it. This videotape has to get to Walter Day. And she's like, okay, Billy, and she's a Q*Bert champion. So she goes to fun spot for the event. Let's keep putting that in very verbal quotes or obvious verbal quotes.
Mandy:
So she shows up, and she's just off in the distance playing Hubert. Yeah. We And then
Megan:
don't care.
Mandy:
And then they devote the film to her because I guess she died shortly after. Yeah. But it was thin. Yeah. I wanted more about Dora's self.
Megan:
Yes. I did too. Either give us some more or cut her out. It was it was an interesting twist, and then it didn't go anywhere.
Mandy:
Okay. So Billy's at home glued to his gross couch
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
With his flip phone.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
And Brian q, q, kuh, what do you how do you feel? K u h.
Megan:
Yeah. I think kuh.
Mandy:
Okay. Brian Kuh, is his man on the scene. So Brian Kuh keeps running out. He's watching Steve Weebie, and then he runs out, and he's updating him. He just cleared a screen.
Mandy:
He just conquered the blah blah blah. And and I can't stop laughing. And then I guess Steve Wiebe is gonna get to a kills potential kill screen.
Megan:
Mhmm.
Mandy:
This is, I guess, a big deal in this world. It's like where the video game ends, and no one ever really gets there. So Brian Keh is walking up to all these peep all these people, all 6 other people at Fun Spot. It looks like a Tuesday morning at at Fun Spot. There's no one there.
Mandy:
It's empty. It's dark, and he's like, potential kill screen. You wanna see a potential skill kill screen? Potential kill screen.
Megan:
I know.
Mandy:
No one cares. And I wrote, shut up, Brian Ka. No one is interested in a potential kill screen. It was so funny.
Megan:
His Well, he's also trying to get people who are equally as addicted to their games to care. It's like they're in the middle of a Skee Ball streak. Leave that you know, leave me alone. Yeah. That
Mandy:
So he's the Michael Hitchcock in Goffman. Do you remember when Yes. And he's like, you know, Corky said, that's show business. And he, like, can't he's he can't be in the show, and it kills him. That's the Brian Ka.
Mandy:
And I loved it so much. He I and I wrote he and then when Wheatie breaks this the record, he seems to have quiet, murderous rage. He Yeah. He's like, so I guess that's just how it goes. And he, like, can't control his anger.
Mandy:
And then he invites out
Megan:
all the
Mandy:
all of his
Megan:
gang Yeah. Back to
Mandy:
his cabin to, like,
Megan:
decompress and have Domino. Yes. He lives in an actual cabin. He does. Like, the woods behind fun spot.
Megan:
I don't these people's lives.
Mandy:
Oh my gosh. A potential kill screen. If we ever start a band, Meg, that that'll potential kill screen. It's a great p k PKS. I yeah.
Mandy:
So I wrote, there are maybe 19 people at Fun Spot total, and Brian Keough keeps calling it a crowd. Yeah. You know, the crowd's all there. And he's calling Billy Mitchell, the crowd's watching. No.
Mandy:
The crowd's witnessing it. The crowd's here. I'm like Yeah. No Brian Keh. There's no crowd, and they're maybe just waiting for the bathroom.
Mandy:
Like Right. Who cares?
Megan:
No. Or yeah. And that was before social media where he I mean, granted, there was a whole documentary film crew there to prove him wrong, but he didn't have to answer to any live proof that it was a smattering.
Mandy:
So then Weebie breaks the record, and Billy Mitchell reveals the tape. They're like, we have the tape of Billy Mitchell doing it better.
Megan:
Right. Let's all gather. They gather,
Mandy:
and they're wiping the screen. Yeah. Show this video at Fun Spot. Again, all 14 of them now.
Megan:
Yes.
Mandy:
Because some of them, you know, had a curfew, and they're probably an under house arrest. So they're they're all gone, and they show the video. Top the video screen is waving and and jump cutting. Right. Right where the score is.
Mandy:
Oh, was that right where the score was?
Megan:
So it's really one of the things Billy is now or was, I guess, suing for? He or claiming that the filmmakers actually tampered with the video and that it wasn't like that in its original form.
Mandy:
Well, I gotta tell you, Robert, it's all up to is it Robert? Richard. Robert?
Megan:
Richard.
Mandy:
Shoot. Okay. So Richard says, look. Twin Galaxy is about integrity above all, and I will do that till my dying breath. He's the one who has to say Billy Mitchell's tape is real.
Mandy:
Billy Mitchell's the champ. Yep. I I I wrote wait. Steve, you showed up to do it live because Billy Mitchell accused you, and now he sends in a tape? Trumpian.
Mandy:
That was my note. So Trumpian. Hypocrite. Ugh. I I was so into it.
Mandy:
I was I was, like, gasping and, you know, wanted to throw stuff at my TV at Billy Mitchell for his hypocrisy. It was so good. Yeah.
Megan:
And so just so unfair to Steve who made this big trip, and he has kids. And he's like, fine.
Mandy:
You were Does he care about the kids? Not so much.
Megan:
He made some kids. Right. And here he is, and Billy doesn't show up. And he's so chill about it, but, again, in this disconcerting way. Like, he he he just becomes emotionless.
Mandy:
This is also one of those times that the sadness of the movie got to me.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
And I I said, Meg, is that the filmmaking, or do we think this this world is really sad? Do you think they intended to infuse sadness into it?
Megan:
I think the the concern around the family is real for, from Steve's family. Clearly, his wife was concerned, and his family could relay concerns about him, but I don't think those are sad people. I think they're humans just like all of us, and they have a lot of different sides to them, and this is one of them.
Mandy:
It felt a lot like, now that I'm thinking about it, on American Idol when they do a package to show the family supporting their loved one, and they're like, oh, I've I've been hearing him sing his whole life. When he was 3, he, you know, that's what it feels like when they're interviewing Steve Weebie's friends.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
Weebie talking about why Steve Weebie deserves, Weebie, deserves to break the record.
Megan:
Yeah. It, it felt yeah. It did feel like a package deal, but it it seemed genuine. I mean, clearly, he has this narrative to his life where he just just can never win.
Mandy:
Yep. This has nothing to do with anything, but Billy Mitchell, who clearly just moves his hot sauces around on the same shelf over and over. They had a lot of footage of that, but he wrote, I had Latin friends and Canadian friends. I always had to keep America on top. That's why he's wearing an American flag tie.
Megan:
I know. I know. Thank goodness this was not now. Who god only knows what he's like now. But as a hot sauce fan, are you compelled to No.
Mandy:
Scores? Not support Billy Mitchell.
Megan:
Alright.
Mandy:
No. Then they so how do they go back to Fun Spot? Maybe I maybe I was holding laundry. What they decide they're gonna once and for all, because was the tape legit or what is Steve's record legit? Right?
Mandy:
So they're gonna do it again at Fun Spot, and Steve brings the whole family.
Megan:
Yeah. I think the the idea was that Billy was gonna actually show up this time. There was another they were giving him another chance to Mhmm. To show up in person, and he
Mandy:
does. And he walks like a creeper behind Steve Weebie as he's playing Donkey Kong, holding the hand of his wife that we barely meet, but Billy Mitchell apparently knows why. Right? And her bangs? But he's so Billy Mitchell comes to town.
Mandy:
He circles the fun spot parking lot. He I mean, he's there looming large, but he won't sit down and play Donkey Kong in front of anyone.
Megan:
Right. And that was the moment where I thought maybe he is a total fraud. We don't see footage of him like we see of Steve. Right. Steve, you watch his hands.
Megan:
You see the hand cut eye coordination, and that was a moment where I was like, I've just been taking this guy's word for it this whole time that he's actually good at this thing. Mhmm. We don't see it.
Mandy:
It it's it's so hypocritical. I know I've we both said the word, but the tension of oh my god. There he is, Billy Mitchell. He just walked in with his doting, proud wife. She is strutting around like Chacha de Gregorio on Danny Zuko's arm, and it's this big deal.
Mandy:
Again, only 11 people in the fun spot.
Megan:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy:
But but the filmmakers made the tension, so it was like, oh, peas and carrots, peas and carrots. Billy Mitchell just walked in, and Right. I felt that excitement. Like, he's here now.
Megan:
Yeah. There he is, and they're in the same room together, and they're both near video games together. And and I didn't quite understand why he hates him so much. Why was he giving him such attitude? It's not his fault.
Megan:
It Nope. No. It seems so unwarranted.
Mandy:
Yeah. And and there's even like, I think it's Brian Ka David Ka. Brian Ka Brian. Outside reporting to Billy, and then the filmmakers are trying to interview Brian Ka. And Billy drives into the parking lot and picks up Brian Ka, and they drive off.
Mandy:
Like Yeah. It's it's bananas. What's with the espionage?
Megan:
I think as a filmmaker, that's where my Spidey sense thinks there's some there's some frustration going on with the production and Billy and trying to schedule him, and something else is happening that they don't wanna break the 4th wall and bring into the film. But there's tension that's real, and we may not know why. But they used it to their advantage.
Mandy:
I just couldn't believe it. And then, the events this is a quote. In the when they're I mean, that's how the film ends. The film ends with Billy holds the record. Steve couldn't break it back in person.
Mandy:
He goes home to his with his wife and kids after a day on the beach on a cloudy, sad day. Even the weather is so cloudy and sad.
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
And then then they do, title cards at the end just to update us. Richard, the judge Richard. Right?
Megan:
Yeah. God.
Mandy:
I can't remember if it's Robert or Richard. The events of the fun spot tournament caused him to resign.
Megan:
Yes.
Mandy:
He's no longer
Megan:
moment. Judge
Mandy:
and jury of Twin Galaxies. Weebie set a new record after they start after they filmed. Right. And so he holds the record. Right?
Megan:
Yeah. Yeah. He does.
Mandy:
Still to still to this day, we think?
Megan:
Well, Billy is has challenged it, and I don't know what the outcome is. I think that what they did was yes. Steve still holds the record. Billy has challenged it on the Twin Galaxy side, but the Guinness Book still holds Steve or something like that.
Mandy:
Okay. So in 2018, Twin Galaxies member Jeremy Young filed a complaint regarding several of Mitchell's records. The validity of Mitchell's August 2010 high score set at Boomer's Grand Prix arcade could not be determined. The referee who allegedly witnessed and certified the record was gamer Todd Rogers, who appears in the king of con and was exposed as having fabricated scores earlier in 2018. April, 12, 2018, Twin Galaxies released an article on their website titled dispute decision, Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong and all other records removed.
Mandy:
The article announced Mitchell had used emulation software to achieve the Donkey Kong high score rather than an arcade machine. This is banned because it allows players to cheat in undetectable ways. Mitchell was stripped of his records and banned from submitting further scores, and Weedy was recognized as the first person to score over the over a 1000000 points. Due to this, Mitchell scores were also removed from the Guinness Book of World Records. The investigation committee cited footage obtained from the King of Kong DVD special features, maybe worth a watch, as instrumental in exposing Mitchell.
Mandy:
But then I read he had just, like, won in court or something.
Megan:
Yeah. I think he won part of it, but he still isn't getting the full the full credit. But I can't help but feel like I could have made a ton of money off that emulation software knowing that I had started that with my VHS reporting. Right. Damn.
Mandy:
Yep. Now did you tell your students about that story, and did they say what's VHS?
Megan:
I told them I'd fax them all the story.
Mandy:
I was riveted. They in 2014, they made King of Kong the musical, which parodied the characters and events depicted in the documentary. I I couldn't find any songs from it.
Megan:
Oh my gosh. I had no idea.
Mandy:
According to whatever Wikipedia I was on, a scripted film adaptation is in the works with Yeah. Seth Gordon has said the movie might be a sequel rather than a remake, telling the story of how the documentary changed both men's lives as well as their continuing rivalry. And Seth Gordon has put Steve Weebie in many movies as little cameos. So, clearly, Steve Weebie became became friends with Seth Gordon or
Megan:
Yeah.
Mandy:
You know, is a an a good guy. And
Megan:
Yeah. And, right, worthy of of a relationship. That's really sweet. And I I I love Seth Gordon's career after this because I think he was recognized for his story sense and his ability to create characters and balance the line between dark dark comedy and quirkiness, and it's yeah.
Mandy:
Where do you stand on Horrible Bosses?
Megan:
I loved Horrible Bosses.
Mandy:
Oh, me too. I've seen it a dozen times. I love it. Me too. So in terms of documentary filmmaking, how was this received amongst your peers?
Mandy:
Because 2007 was when you were very much in that world.
Megan:
Yeah. It was a it was, like, kind of a golden era of documentary filmmaking, and there was this big divide between the real premium, cinematic, beautiful docs and the ones that felt gritty and real and fly on the wall. And I was in the world of the gritty fly on the wall where it didn't feel produced, it felt authentic, and so this film was a darling for that because it wasn't trying to be beautiful or epic, but it was a story. And it was tight, and it moved, and it was funny, and it had good music. And so, it was and if you it was a it was award winning and
Mandy:
It was.
Megan:
Us yeah. I mean, at festivals, not academy or anything. So it was a very successful documentary. And of that era and genre, it was, it rose to the top. So it was very popular.
Mandy:
Wow. Oh, I keep getting King Kong. Stop autocorrecting.
Megan:
Stupid. I
Mandy:
was like, no. It won for visual effects. No. No. It did not.
Mandy:
No. I never would have known about this. And this is so nerderific. It's just so in the wheelhouse, and it shows the passion people feel. I would have gotten this nerdy about if there was a musical theater competition, and I thought it was rigged.
Mandy:
And she won instead of me. I won't go into my painful story about community auditions when the team beat me because there were more of them. But it's, you know, I would have taken it completely seriously Yeah. Exactly. As these people did.
Megan:
Story, that small town community story that is so big to people, and and it it should be. I mean, it's their lives. It gives them joy and distraction and connection and accomplishments. Mhmm.
Mandy:
I hope everyone listening sees this movie. I feel bad that I went on and on and maybe did too many spoilers, but I promise if you all watch this movie, your jaws will hit the floor. It won't you won't feel like, oh, I know every twist and turn. It's it's a gold mine.
Megan:
It is a gold mine. And if you watch it through that lens of, oh my gosh. I can't believe these people exist. It's it makes me it was sad to watch in many ways, but it I it also just makes me so happy to be a human because these people are fascinating, and they care about something. And that's, to me, what's what's so appealing about nerdom is Mhmm.
Megan:
Just watching people care about something.
Mandy:
Yeah. That that's really what it is about. Thank you so much for introducing me to this movie.
Megan:
I'm glad you liked it. As I was watching it again, I wasn't sure. I really I wasn't sure about my students. I wasn't sure about you. I thought, oh, boy, has this not held up.
Megan:
And I have to say it didn't feel as magical as it did when I first watched it in 2007 because Well, of course. It was breaking boundaries that have been broken many times since then, but Right. It's still a gold mine in many ways.
Mandy:
It it is akin to hands on a hard body. It exposes you to a world and these rich characters that you didn't know you just can't imagine. And, and I love that movie, and I love this one. And so Yeah. Well done, Meg.
Mandy:
Yes. Okay. I know you don't have anything to plug. You are not looking No. I anyone to follow you anywhere.
Megan:
Nobody can plug into me. Stick away.
Mandy:
So I will tell everybody that make me a nerd is a production of true story f m engineering by the peerless Pete Wright. My theme song is wonderstruck by Jane and the boy. You can reach out to me and I will pass along any messages of love and admiration to Megan, at mandy_kaplan_clavens, both with k's on Instagram. If you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts, please, please take 5 seconds. Hit write a review and share your thoughts there.
Mandy:
I love to hear from everybody. And if you're feeling extra supportive and invested, go to make me a nerd.com and hit the join button for more access to me and more content and to get your episodes ad free and early. Thank you so much, Meg.
Megan:
Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.
Mandy:
I wanna reach through my screen and hug you, but that's not gonna go very well.
Megan:
No. Don't break the glass.
Mandy:
And I would love to tell everybody what I'm doing next, but here's what's going on behind the scenes of make me a nerd. Due to sickness and rescheduling, I'm not sure which episodes are releasing when. So that that Buffy, episode is still out there, TBD. So I know I've got Andor coming up, and The Babadook, I think, might be next. There's tons of great stuff.
Mandy:
Craven the hunter, I'm about to do, but I don't know which one's happening when. So everybody take in all of those things and join me next week.