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Welcome to the Wired to Lead podcast with Julia LeFevre!
Wired to Lead - EP22
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Julia: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. I'm Julia Lafe, and around here we talk about leading with clarity, rewiring our mindset, and growing from the inside out. So let me ask you, what if restoring dignity and safety in a city [00:00:15] didn't start with punishment, but with partnership?
Today's guest officer Nate Schwiethale, has built his career proving that that is possible for over two decades with a police department, he has pioneered a new [00:00:30] approach to policing that bridges the gap between law enforcement and some of the most vulnerable in our communities. Nate is the founder of the homeless Outreach team and nationally recognized model that has helped more than 1500 people move from the [00:00:45] streets and into housing.
His work has been celebrated by the Department of Justice replicated in cities across the country, and honored with multiple Officer of the Year Awards. So if you have ever wondered how empathy and [00:01:00] innovation can transform systems and how leadership can bring real hope to people who feel unseen, Nate's story is one you will want to hear.
Nate , welcome to the show. We're, I'm so excited to have you [00:01:15] here on Wired to Lead.
Nate: Yeah, thanks for the invite. And I just wanna do a disclaimer, you know, I'm here representing myself to talk with you and, uh, a safe night. Uh, my consulting company. I'm with
Julia: , So. Tell us how did [00:01:30] you, you know, you went into, , the police department wanting to help your community, and how, how have you been able to do that
Nate: um, well, I mean, a little bit of history, I guess, about, where I came [00:01:45] from and like this journey. I grew up out west like, like you. you know, the Godard in Mays area, school District, uh, I always wanted to be a police officer. I graduated high school, went to college, got my criminal justice degree, and then joined the police department in [00:02:00] 2001.
Um, back then, uh, they didn't, I didn't, I never seen a homeless person, didn't know anything about it. We didn't see those, see them at all on the west side of Wichita. Uh, in fact, they hadn't really even been downtown, um, that much. And. [00:02:15] Went to the academy, they teach you how to make arrests, write reports, deescalation techniques, that type of thing.
And then, um, they, when you graduate from the academy, they find a area that they need to fill and that's where you go. You don't have to [00:02:30] choose. Um, so I just happened to get selected to go to the downtown area. I didn't know anything about downtown, uh, never went to the bars or anything like that in college, that much.
And what I did learn is most of my 9 1 1 calls in the [00:02:45] downtown area were homeless related, you know, homeless, drinking in the park, jaywalking, panhandling, um, you know, setting up camps in front of a business. Uh, so I end up finding myself throughout the entire day, you know, arresting, [00:03:00] homeless, taken to jail, and it's normally for, uh, small vagrancy type crimes that they go to jail for an hour and then get a court date and leave.
Come back to the streets and then I see 'em the next day, next day, and then we do it all over again. And I just saw this revolving [00:03:15] door of homeless going into the jail and back out on the streets again. And not that I'm gonna brag about it, but I let our department arrest and tickets for, uh, many years and it was just running homeless people in and outta the jail.
And I kept thinking I was gonna make a difference [00:03:30] and I really wasn't. I joined law enforcement make a difference in my community. Um, and I think, you know, I do believe being a law enforcement officer, you can do that. However, seeing that revolving door over and over again, I kept coming back to why I joined law enforcement and [00:03:45] was I really making a difference?
And I, I, I feel like I wasn't. And so when an opportunity came up after about six or seven years on the streets, uh, called community policing. So you're still on the streets as an officer, but you're looking at the reasons and of why crime [00:04:00] exists and looking at proactive, uh, ways to address that. And it's not necessarily through arrest and tickets and building your stats up.
It's about solving problems in the community, right? And working with the community from a community based type, [00:04:15] policing, relationship based policing.
So obviously in the downtown area, mine was dealing with homeless population and so I had to really humble myself and realize that, you know, I wasn't gonna rest my way up.
Homelessness, I'd already tried that. Um, so we had to do something a little bit different. Uh, about that time in [00:04:30] 2011, there was a new concept that was hitting nationwide called police Homeless Outreach Teams, which focuses not on arresting tickets. 'cause we already proved that doesn't work. And it focuses on getting homeless off the streets and into housing.
Uh, there was a study done by University of [00:04:45] North Carolina, Charlotte. This shows if you get homeless people off the streets, it actually reduces their vacancy arrest by 84%. So from a law enforcement
perspective that that's our goal. Why aren't we thinking outside the box and just trying to do something a little bit different?
And so [00:05:00] that's really, uh, what kind of motivated me to try something different. Um, being in my community police role, I was able to go get training in this new concept, the police homeless outreach team in another state. I brought it back, uh, drafted our first camping [00:05:15] ordinance, our, our SOP and our policy and procedure.
And, uh, we went live with four officers in, uh, 2013. So
Julia: The 84%. That's a big number when you're talking statistics. The once, so you make one [00:05:30] simple change, get them into housing
Nate: and with around services and stabilization, I.
Julia: Sure, sure. So it's not just, yeah, throw you in a house, but let's get you set up. Let's deal with the rude issue of, [00:05:45] of housings, and then that can make a huge difference. So I'm curious, so you get this training, what was different about it?
What, uh, what did you learn and how did policies start to [00:06:00] change?
Nate: What I learned was, 24 years ago when you went to the academy, uh, one of the, I guess. Philosophies was to treat everybody the same, right? No matter what, treat everybody the same. And it sounds great, but the reality is that's not [00:06:15] necessarily the right practice because some people have mental health issues, you know, some people are low functioning.
you have to learn to adapt and change with the, the people that you have, right? And so, and also relationship building, it was back in the day if you were on a scene [00:06:30] and citizens would walk up, you'd say, Hey, you need to go back inside and get away from our scene. It's a little bit different now. Maybe we're wanting to talk to people door, knock on the doors around a crime scene and talk to citizens.
Uh, ask 'em what they saw, help them, [00:06:45] uh, solve problems of crime. You know, the founders of policing a Sir Robert Pill, and one of the quotes he says, the people of the public, the police are the public, and the public or the police indicating we're, we're all in this together. We're all the same. That kind of brought [00:07:00] back this, what I learned in that training, it was about building relationships, not only with the community, but also with our homeless population, building rapport.
Uh, they didn't, they don't trust anyone. They best definitely don't trust police and law enforcement. So if you're gonna make a breakthrough, you gotta show [00:07:15] them respect and dignity, because when you've lost your home and you've lost your job, you've lost your family, and you've lost everything. The only thing that you have left is your pride and dignity.
And respect. And if you try to take that [00:07:30] away from somebody, it's not gonna go well. 'cause that's the only thing they have. And so that really kind of opened my eyes about changing the way we look at homeless, the way we talk to them, the way we address, uh, address them, and, and changing, you know, how we do business.
Julia: [00:07:45] Man, you know, here at Wired to Lead and, uh, the work that Brave Restoration does is. We talk a lot about how our brains are made to operate best, and what neuroscience has [00:08:00] shown us is that our brains operate best when our core human needs are met first, and those human needs are. Uh, belonging, acceptance of my humanity.
Uh, a lot. A lot of times [00:08:15] people say, do you see me? Do you know me? Do you care about me? And I hear you saying, you know, this is where the shift has happened. Instead of only caring what you're do about what you're doing, we're gonna first [00:08:30] care about you, who you are as an individual, and. And then that's going to lay the, the groundwork for maybe changing some of the behaviors. So I'm curious, so [00:08:45] how do you go from someone who was tracking people down and taking them to jail? To, because I assume they knew you 'cause they had probably seen you around and been in your [00:09:00] car on their way for a night.
Nate: Right. Right.
Julia: how do you, how did you do that? How did you make that shift?
Nate: That's a very good question. Um, and I learned that it took time because they're like, they see me and I [00:09:15] was the homeless Gestapo, right? I led our department arresting tickets and it was all homeless. I was probably hated by the homeless community. So how do you make that change? Where now if you ask, you know, the homeless [00:09:30] about my name, they know me and they say most, 99% of the time are gonna say a lot of good things about me.
So,
um.
Julia: he's our guy.
Nate: Yeah. And so, uh, the big thing was showing them that, uh, that we were willing to change and we were gonna try something different. [00:09:45] Uh, one of the things where we first started, uh, the pilot program for our homeless outreach team is we went out and got endorsements, letter endorsement letters, not only from the community and businesses, uh, from the homeless providers,
um,
but one of the biggest, the best, um, endorsement I ever [00:10:00] got was from a homeless shelter where I went to the homeless themselves in an evening.
I set up a PowerPoint and talked about this philosophy of, of, uh, police homeless outreach teams and trying to help them on the streets into housing [00:10:15] versus us just trying to cram at 'em in the jail all the time. Um, and, and it was a long, long meeting and I had a lot of homeless. Complain about the way they were treated and, and you know, they get a ticket for walking across the street, but the [00:10:30] businessman right next to him doesn't get one.
So there was a lot of that and I listened and I said, yeah, you're absolutely right. I said, but I would like to change because everything you guys are saying is correct and this is what I want to do and this is the model and here's what we're gonna do. Um, they were all [00:10:45] in and, and they accepted what the, given me a second chance.
Now, so they, that was an endorsement letter, but then moving forward, at the end of the day, you still had a lot of homeless that were on the streets. Um, how do I convince them? One of the things I learned, especially when you're dealing with [00:11:00] leadership, is, uh, go after the individuals that are leaders themselves.
Uh, there was an individual who's chronically homeless in the community for 20 years. Um, he was very charismatic and had a lot of following, and his name was Rooster. [00:11:15] And so I knew if I was going to make this crazy idea of homeless outreach team working and get the trust of the homeless community, I had to go after the leader.
And that was Rooster. And if I could help him, then I knew more were to follow. [00:11:30] Um, so I actually wrote a book about it called Rooster What? A Homeless Man Taught A Cop.
Um,
it's at Watermark books right now. If anyone's interested, I can give you a link later. But, um, but Rooster, really, once I, I went out and helped him.
I got him, turned [00:11:45] around and got him into an apartment and started working with him. Um, turned his life around. That was a domino effect. All of his friends immediately got into housing and our phone was blown up, left and right. So it really was that quick. But it was, it was [00:12:00] understanding. Uh, the leadership philosophy of trying to work with the, and, and strategize on those high profile individuals to make a difference first, and then in turn they would help you.
Julia: Absolutely. It reminds me, I wanna look back to my [00:12:15] library back here. It reminds me of the, uh, book influencer. Um, and it's, it's the same thing. You find the people who are your influencers and, uh, you connect [00:12:30] relationally and then you start, um, inviting them into a different way. And then before you know it, they're doing your job for you because they're,
Nate: Right.
Julia: they're bringing everyone else along.
Nate: Right? Yeah,
absolutely. [00:12:45]
Julia: So I'm curious, was there a turning point with Rooster that you thought, okay, I mean, was there resistance at the first and then was there a turning point, or was he just like, okay, sure. Help me.
Nate: And he was like, okay, sure. Help me. Uh, [00:13:00] because I think what it was, it was 20 years. So really how it started was, uh, the. West side officers, he would camp out and drink every day at parks in the west side, like the Delano district area. And, uh, they would write him a ticket, take him to jail, and he'd get back out, go back to park, [00:13:15] start doing it again.
I mean, they're just, they're not gonna spend time, long time in jail for minor, vague, guilty type crimes. Um, and they were sick of doing all this paperwork and seeing nothing happen. And so they said, Nate, you know, I mean, what can you do? So when I went and [00:13:30] contacted Rooster. Um, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna arrest him.
I said, look, I said, how about I take you to inpatient treatment for substance abuse? It will get you off the streets and it, it won't be cold 'cause it was cold that day. And, uh, you'll get free food and I want to [00:13:45] talk to you about the housing program. And so I said, if you get in my car, I'll talk to you about the housing program.
So he gets in, he is drunk, and I said, rooster, I said, if we can get you clean and sober and get you into this housing program. And then you get a job, [00:14:00] you do those three things and I'll buy you a stake there. And from the back of the car, he is like, meet him. Rare, all drunk and everything. And so,
Julia: Medium rare.
Nate: yeah. And I think it was, and no one had ever offered him to do that in 20 years.[00:14:15]
And here we are, the law enforcement, and I'm not knocking the community, the homeless providers or anything. I think it was just we're first responders, we're there. And we can kick the can down the road, or we can try to do something different and why not? [00:14:30] You know? And the 20 years of arresting him and taking him to jail wasn't working.
And that one moment that I had with him and, you know, three, he did three months of inpatient treatment. We were able to take him off the streets. He didn't, he didn't go back to the streets. He went straight into a housing, first apartment through the [00:14:45] City of Wichita, um, housing program. And then, uh, continued to work on sobriety.
Eventually, uh, got a job and started working full time. And then open, you know, living on his own and we're still friends today. Um, but again, it was about us [00:15:00] trying something different and thinking outside the box. So, but luckily he gave us that opportunity and that chance, um, you know, I don't know how it would've, everything would've went if, if, if he didn't.
Julia: Yeah. There's a couple of [00:15:15] things I wanna circle back to. The first thing is that when you first started engaging this community, that before you were punishing them, so to speak, and now you're trying to [00:15:30] partner with them, you're trying to connect and. That it started with going to them with curiosity and learning like you were learning.
You weren't demanding [00:15:45] that they learn something new, but you were learning, and not only did you learn, but you took responsibility for things that had been done incorrectly. Or things that needed to [00:16:00] change, like arresting a homeless person for walking across the street and not the business person.
Nate: Yeah, I mean, it's, it, it takes a lot to, um, humble yourself. And look outside and think that maybe you don't know, have all the answers, you know, and you gotta [00:16:15] be humble enough, uh, to be able to recognize that and ask for help. And maybe
sometimes
that help is coming from a homeless man.
I mean, even with Rooster, um, you know, I just met him. We're in the back car. I'm driving him, you know, to, uh, the [00:16:30] facility to get help and then sign 'em up for housing. But I remember in the conversation I said, you know. Rooster, you know, talk, explained to me what, like 20 years of drinking
and living on the streets homeless.
I was like, Why do you drink? Why do you do that? And he looks out the window and he says, I [00:16:45] don't wanna talk about it. Um, so there was, you know, hidden demons and issues. Um, eventually through friendship and building that rapport, he opens up and explains why. Um, I mean, if you want to know the reasons why, you can read about it in my book.
Uh, [00:17:00] but it was about me trying to learn and not just assume things and think that I know why or whatever. 'cause you don't know until you ask and you have to be humble enough to open up and listen to people.
Julia: Yeah. The second thing I love about [00:17:15] just your stories is learning that there's more to the picture than what we see, and yet as first responders, especially, your job is to respond to what you see in the moment. So like you [00:17:30] said, I mean, there's. There are systems that that's their job to kind of triage.
But then if we really want transformation and change, we need to be willing to get under the surface to what we don't see. Uh, [00:17:45] at Brave. It's why those of you who are watching, you'll see the tree in my, the background of, uh, my video because it's, it's my favorite picture because so often we think about growth as [00:18:00] everything that's above ground, and yet what drives growth or lack of is what's underground. So you're looking at Rooster and saying, seeing what's above ground, you know, why are you [00:18:15] drinking? And very quickly, and it's okay to ask that if, um, you're ready for what's under the ground. And he wasn't ready yet to share it. But there's [00:18:30] always a story underneath an unwanted behavior. And if we simply try and transform it or change it by dealing with what's above ground, we're just gonna end up cutting down a tree, uh, because it [00:18:45] doesn't work.
But if you start fertilizing or hearing and seeing and giving the tree what it needs from the root level, then all of a sudden you can change. If you start saying, oh, one of the reasons is because you're [00:19:00] hurting. Well, to even be able to deal with what. He was hurting with, we have to take care of the substance, so let's go figure out that.
And then let's go a little deeper. And I imagine there was some sort of [00:19:15] counseling or care for the hurts. Um, then there was, you know, basic needs met and, and then it became a domino effect for health instead of for [00:19:30] regurgitating the same cycle.
Nate: Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right and, and I can talk about this 'cause he talks about it publicly and even on videos, uh, that he's been interviewed. But, you know, once we. Went through the, the addiction treatment. You know, we started [00:19:45] to figure, find out that he did have some mental health issues that he had to deal with and yeah, he, he's on medication and he is, he is okay saying that and admitting that he needed help.
But it's exactly what you said. You know, if I would've walked in the, had him get in the back of the car [00:20:00] and go, Hey, you're just a drunk and you need to stop being lazy in work and stop doing the, I mean, come on, he's gonna shut down and, you know. Um,
so we had to
Julia: another bottle of liquor. You know? I mean, it's,
Nate: So we had [00:20:15] to approach it from a different angle, you know, with him and, and eventually he found his way and found out I need help in other areas and eventually, yeah, I need to talk about it.
And we did.
Julia: yeah. The third thing I love [00:20:30] about that story is, uh, and you just kind of ref, kind of referred back to this idea that you didn't look at him as a homeless drunk, or you didn't interact with him as a homeless, drunk [00:20:45] person in the back of your car. You interacted with him as a human who had a lot more potential and just needed some help. And even your offering a steak [00:21:00] dinner, it was a vote of confidence that, hey, what if I, you get clean, get into some housing, get a job, you know, I'll gift you a steak dinner. [00:21:15] That's projecting something different in the. Ahead of him, and my guess is he hadn't had very many people believe that he could be anything else.
Nate: Right. Yeah, absolutely. And um, you know, it kind of [00:21:30] reminds me of another story, uh, with our homeless. He was an individual. He was, uh, disabled and he was in, uh, the day shelter. Um, he wasn't into substance abuse. His name was Ernest. Ernest wasn't into substance abuse. He didn't have mental health issues.
[00:21:45] He was extremely intelligent. He just was disabled, uh, from his legs from years of doing TaeKwonDo. He was a state champion. Um, and he did construction. Well, he, we came disabled and crippled and so he couldn't do construction, couldn't work. Next thing you know, he is, he is, finds himself homeless. [00:22:00] And he is in the shelter doing laundry.
And I, I ended up meeting him and we had a great friendship and we did some projects together and he was on some boards as a person with lived experience. 'cause that's a lot of times required for some of the boards, uh, through head federal [00:22:15] government. And so that's really how I got to know him. Well, during this time period, I started talking with him.
I said, Ernest, you know. Hey, you're extremely intelligent. You ever thought about going to college? And he just looked at me like I was crazy. I said, no, man, I'm serious. I was like, you're [00:22:30] homeless, you're a minority, and you, you probably, there's lots of grants out there for you should look into it. And he just kind of blew me off and said no one in his family had ever done anything like that.
Um, we continued to be friends about six months later, but he was applying to get his [00:22:45] disability for him being crippled, and he did get it. Um, we moved out, got an apartment. I never see him again. Two years later, I get a text message from him with, um, a college degree, picture of a college degree from Wichita State University for it.[00:23:00]
And he said, I wanted to show you this first, including my own family, because you were the only one that believed in me and no one ever did. And, and it meant a lot to me. And so, and he ended up getting like a 4.0 GPA. And so, um, that was pretty [00:23:15] remarkable. And it speaks, and it taught me a lot about how strong.
having faith in someone is like what you were just talking about and saying, Hey, I believe you can do this, especially coming from law enforcement. There's psychological studies out there to show this, and I didn't [00:23:30] know any of this. I just saw it was happening and then did
my own research and found out that law enforcement can have a positive effect, but also negative effect on people through our words and our actions.
Because psychologically we are held to a higher standard and we look like, [00:23:45] you know what we say and what we do means a difference, whether it's negative or positive. And, and I really see it, especially in our homeless population, when we decide to be their cheerleader and tell them that they can do things, it makes a huge difference.
So a lot, sometimes a lot [00:24:00] more than even friends or family. Um, and now that, you know, earnest really taught me that as well.
Julia: Yeah. You know, neurologically, our brains, the part of our, the subconscious part of our brain that drives all of our automatic responses [00:24:15] is driven or is created by our past experiences with other people. So many of us have negative experiences that help that then translate into these [00:24:30] stories that we write, that I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not something, and those motivate us all through our lives.
But what's [00:24:45] so incredible, and this is the new, uh, science that's coming out, is it's this idea of memory reconsolidation. And I'm gonna bring my brain out here. Uh, for those of you watching, I'm showing a graphic of my. [00:25:00] Brain model, but in the middle of your brain, your subconscious, your limbic system is holding these stories, the neural networks that hold those experiential memories.
Well, a lot of us have said, you [00:25:15] know, we're hired wired. Like, I'm just always going to be like this. It's who I am. Well, that's not scientifically true. We used to think if something happened to us sub and it was lodged in our [00:25:30] subconscious that you're just outta luck. You're gonna have to spend the rest of your life coping.
But what they're, what neuroscience is finding now is that. Experiences with people created those neural networks [00:25:45] and new experiences with new people can replace the felt experiential memory. So that's amazing. Even if you had a, a parent or a coach or a teacher [00:26:00] who said, uh, you're too, you're not smart enough, you're not big enough, you're not, whatever, enough.
If you have somebody now, so for instance, a police officer, another [00:26:15] teacher, a friend, uh, anyone who starts to speak into your life in a different way, it can re replace and rewrite, kind of rewire your brain. [00:26:30] And so it, you've experienced that you've, you know, earnest is a living testament over the power of having someone believe in you.
Nate: Right. Yeah. Open mind is up up a lot. [00:26:45] That's for sure.
Julia: Yeah. You know, out there right now there's a lot of self-help. Believe in yourself or give yourself grace or uh, love yourself [00:27:00] and you can do that, but only if someone else has believed in you. First. You can reinforce memories that are in your. But you cannot create new [00:27:15] experiences because they have to be an experience with another human.
It's how our brains are wired. To be for connection to we are social creatures. And when [00:27:30] we understand that and when you are thinking about transformation and change, the more you can leverage experiences with trained people who are able. To believe in you to move [00:27:45] toward, uh, even if you know there's a homeless person, a lot of people struggle.
They're scared, they don't know what to do. They feel awkward. which is why I love the work that you do, because you guys are trained to be able [00:28:00] to do that. Um, and the more you do, the more you give experiences that can change their lives.
Nate: I was gonna say, yeah, definitely. Like the topic that we're discussing right now is something when I'm training other law enforcement agencies, [00:28:15] uh, I spend an hour, you know, we have, we have an all day training on this and we do spend a large amount of time talking about this topic and, and,
um, the way we treat the homeless population, we need to be their cheerleaders.
Um, those type of things. And, and I have [00:28:30] to give examples to, because it's probably. Something that's not normal for officers to act like. 'cause we're all supposed to treat everybody the same and this, this, and that, right?
And so we gotta sometimes, um, get out, uh, get outside our [00:28:45] box a little bit and, and do something a little bit different that maybe we're not trained to do or we're not used to or don't feel comfortable doing.
Um, but it still does work.
Julia: So I'm curious, uh ha. Have you faced resistance in this new [00:29:00] way of, um, being a police? Men?
Nate: As far as being in the homeless, outreach, police, homeless, outreach
Julia: Yeah.
Nate: for resistance from like, like [00:29:15] you.
Julia: Um, from communities, from leaders, from other officers.
Nate: Yeah, I mean, I'd say, you know, probably all the above. I mean, uh, community leaders, I think the good thing about [00:29:30] like, um, you know, our city loves our homeless hiring teams. Uh, we get all the city council members are supportive of our mission and what we're doing and how we operate. Our chief is our, our chief actually [00:29:45] started a homeless outreach team in Philadelphia.
So he gets it and he just, I don't have to explain anything to him. You know, he, he understands it completely. He surprises me all the time about it. Um, and so that's good. Uh, the, the, the officers, uh, yes and no. [00:30:00] So. Early on when we first started our homeless outreach team, people were like, what the heck is this?
Like, why are we doing social work? Or why do we have a team doing social work? Right? Um, so there was a lot, and they warned me about this during the training, that there was a lot of, [00:30:15] um, we'd have to prove ourselves and get the, the officers to understand how we can benefit them. One example I give is there was an officer, he had been on like 30 years and he was a sniper for the SWAT team.
[00:30:30] And, uh, there was a, he, they went, he wasn't on a call, you know, with the SWAT team, but he was working patrol and they got, they kept getting like three or four calls of this homeless guy who was intoxicated causing problems in the neighborhood and, you know, trespassing and businesses [00:30:45] call 'em or whatever.
And, uh. Uh, finally he was on a call with a younger officer who had seen our presentation in the police academy and
said, Hey, he's homeless. Uh, why don't we call the homeless outreach team and see what they can do? And the 30-year-old SWAT [00:31:00] veteran was like, why are we calling that stupid? That's a bunch of social work.
They can't help with this. And, and then finally, after the third or fourth, fourth call, the officer said, all right, go ahead and call the hot team. So the younger officer calls us. Um, when I show up on scene, [00:31:15] I had literally been working with that homeless person because I found out that there was a family member willing to take him in in Oklahoma.
And through grants and donations from the community, we were gonna pay for his bus ticket to reunite with a family member. So he is no longer homeless, [00:31:30] which means he wouldn't be causing problems here, and he'd be in a stabilized home with someone looking over him in Oklahoma. And so when I arrived on scene.
He says, Nate, and he, he, he was in the middle of arguing with the officers and, uh, he says, Nate, I was like, I've been trying to get ahold of [00:31:45] you. I was like, I've been looking for you too. He is like, can we go to the bus station? My, my family's ready to take me in. I said, absolutely. And he runs over and he jumps in the car and sits down and I rolled the window guy and I said, I got this guy.
I was like, you want, you won't have any more problems with them. And I drive off. [00:32:00] That SWAT team member was blown away and was telling the other officer how amazing that was. And then the next day, he's calling me for help. The next day after that, he is calling me for help. And so it was just this, you know, it took time, but it was this, uh.
Domino [00:32:15] effect of officers realizing the benefits and what we do and how we proactively are helping reduce their 9 1 1 calls and helping them out. And if we're showing up and disregarding them on a call, they can go get lunch and we'll deal with this situation in a better way. Right. [00:32:30]
Uh, and now it's gotten to the point where we're getting called all the time by officers when we have calls holding with officers wanting us to come to their scene.
And so it's a, it's, it's had the, almost the opposite effect, which is great. You're right. But yeah, it's [00:32:45] time for us to, uh, build up, uh, the confidence for the officers and, um, so yeah, it's, it's been great. It's always challenging. Um, you're always gonna have naysayers and in the community, maybe people that are, um, anti-police, you [00:33:00] know,
or whatever. And it doesn't matter how, what you do, you're never gonna. Uh, make them happy. Um,
but that's those, you know, we've built up such a good reputation that, that, that is now, that number is so small
that we have so much support from the [00:33:15] community, from the officers, from our homeless population, from our elected officials now.
Um, so, uh, that's great.
Julia: it's really exciting to be able to see real change happening.
Nate: Right.
And that's not always the case. Uh, you know, we've. [00:33:30] Had leadership in the past, they don't, maybe don't work on the department that didn't support our mission and we're trying to make changes, you know, that weren't conducive to our mission. Um, uh, you know, and then you have, sometimes you have [00:33:45] politicians that maybe disagree on directions or whatever,
but right now, in general, yeah, it's great.
And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's good to have, but it, it can be tough for other cities and other agencies when they first start out. They have to go through those growing pains. Absolutely.
Julia: [00:34:00] Yeah. So tell us a little bit about what your consulting business is. You know how I assume that you are connected to other, uh, police forces, um, as Yeah. Tell us [00:34:15] how and what, how you get to partner with other cities.
Nate: I do a little bit of two things. Uh, you know, first I started off mostly implementing and starting homeless outreaching in other cities. Uh, you know, one example is Salt Lake City. Um, uh, [00:34:30] Lubbock, Texas, and a few others. Uh, many others. Um, and then as police, homeless, outreach teams became popular across the nation.
Pretty much every police department has a homeless outreach team. Now, if you
don't have one, you're, you're old school and you're behind the [00:34:45] times, you, you need to retire and move on. Um, so now I've actually moved into more consulting and taking police, homeless outreach teams and making them better and improving upon them.
And that's where I've gotten some, a lot of federal grants. Uh, from the Department of [00:35:00] Justice, IECP to train other cities or improve their homeless outreach teams that they do have. The other thing I started to dive into, which is kind of we've already talked about was that, um, community-based, uh, policing, relationship building, relationship-based policing model [00:35:15] and what it's actually called, it is data-driven.
It is science-based, um, through, it's called, I call it proactive alliance. And I'll kind of get on my probably a little bit of soapbox on what that is. Yeah. Um, it is day driven. It's backed up by Rutgers [00:35:30] University. There's actually certificates on that. It's gonna sound a little bit like community policing, which community policing is good, but that's more of a philosophy.
And I do believe in community policing, but it takes community policing on a macro level and kind of makes it more of a micro level. So yes, you, [00:35:45] uh, do community policing and get the community in general to trust you, but at the end of the day, if you need specific people to help you out, who can you call for?
That's where it gets down a little bit more on its core towards what's called proactive alliance building those alliances. [00:36:00] It's basically a policing approach that integrates law enforcement methods and concepts with counseling psychology. To help officers build lasting collaborative relationships within the community.
It was actually developing licensed by professional counselor Molly Mato, [00:36:15] um, out of Arlington, Virginia. Um, her husband worked for the, uh, Arlington Police Department,
um, but it's branch model designed to provide officers with techniques to build rapport first before a crisis occurs. Uh, the core [00:36:30] proactive alliance is that relationship-based policing, um, basically defined as establishing relationships within the community.
Mayors and collaborative collaboratively, uh, solve complex issues. Um, the approach just aims to shift policing from [00:36:45] like an enforcement first model to a culture where dialogue and mutual understanding can create a foundation. Um, of order and scrutiny of security, allowing officers and the public to work together for a shared goal.[00:37:00]
Um, and that's kind of, I guess a, a quick background of it, but again, it is science-based. Uh, there is training modules for it, um, which is a little bit different than community policing 'cause there isn't really, uh, a training [00:37:15] certification for community policing like CIT, crisis Intervention Team or some of these other concepts that this is.
so I teach that. Plus obviously the implementation of homeless outreach team and helping cities that have homeless related issues and how [00:37:30] law enforcement can partner law enforcement shouldn't be the go-to for addressing homelessness. They also shouldn't be completely wiped out of it either.
It's
a balance, and I look at the way I described it. I was at a conference for IACP, [00:37:45] international Association Chief of Police, and someone asked that question, well, should a law enforcement take the lead on this? And I said. No, not really. I think we're just, uh, look at a wheel and a bunch of spokes we're one spoke of the wheel to make it turn.
And if you take one of those [00:38:00] spokes out, whether it's the business community where it's faith-based, where it's the homeless providers, and then the wheel doesn't turn as well. Right?
And we all, we have to have all those spokes together, uh, to, uh, make it move forward.
Julia: Yeah. I love that [00:38:15] because. It's a community issue and it's something that needs the community participation. And if we try and put it on one entity, it, it is just not going to [00:38:30] work because it's not a black and white issue there. It's not so singular that there's, there's one reason or one way to get out.
I mean, it's so nuanced. So I think that holistic approach just makes [00:38:45] sense.
Nate: Absolutely. And we as law enforcement, if we're going to address homelessness and help people get into housing, you know? Okay. Who's gonna work with us if we have this standoff approach like this and right. Or we're just gonna [00:39:00] arrest all the homeless people. You're not gonna get the housing department to give you housing vouchers.
You're not gonna get the substance abuse treatment centers to work with you and open up beds dedicated for your hot team. Which by the way, did happen. But it was because of relationship building Rooster. Uh, they, [00:39:15] there was no beds available, but when they realized that I wasn't gonna help 'em get into housing.
Their director came to me and said, Nate, we're gonna open up a single bed dedicated to the hot team, not other officers, only the hot team, because you're helping our clients and we wanna help you. [00:39:30] So it
was that relationship of back, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. Right.
That would've never happened if we weren't building those relationships.
So the reason why our team is successful, it wasn't because I had this cool [00:39:45] idea or I'm this great cop. It really isn't. It was about understanding that I need help, and the only way to do that as a builder is relationships and work together with the community. That is why we were successful. I, I won officer the year award, [00:40:00] uh, for implementing our team.
But when I went and accepted my award, I, I stood up there and I spent 20 minutes talking about all the partners. That actually helped me win this award,
and it was, it was really helping them, helping me and us working [00:40:15] together.
Julia: Wow. We need another, uh, round of podcasts because there's still a whole lot more to talk about, but we are almost out of time, and so. I just, I [00:40:30] wanna give you some time to speak to our listeners and, uh, if, if you could ask communities of people to do one thing, uh, to be a part of this issue, [00:40:45] what would you, how would you invite them into this, this journey?
Nate: I think the main thing that people I want them to understand is, yes, you nailed it. It's a community issue. It's. All of us working together, and maybe you [00:41:00] don't have the time to get involved to go volunteer. Maybe you have financial ways to help and, and do not give the money to their homeless population.
'cause studies have shown that goes towards their addictions. Uh, give it to those agencies that are working to help the homeless in the right way. [00:41:15] And you choose that, you know, get involved and, and, uh, you know, donate your time if you can do that. But the number one thing is understand that the dynamics of homelessness.
And the reasons why people get into, uh, become homeless are very vast. [00:41:30] It's mental health.
It's substance abuse issues. It's, um, getting disabled like earnest.
It's all over the place. And the reasons why people get out of homelessness is, and the way they do it is gonna be different as well.
So understanding that and, and put away your biases and [00:41:45] understand that anyone can be homeless at any time.
And when I say that, that, oh, that sounds cliche-ish, but there's, in my book I talk about a police officer. Who became disabled and became homeless in Wichita and his story. And you know, I [00:42:00] challenge people to read that and I talk about that individual. He is deputy, uh, Javier Mon, I can say his name. Um, he, I tell that story the very first time when I start talking with law enforcement to get their attention.
They say, this is real. This could happen to anybody for at any time, for any moment. [00:42:15] And, and that's kind of the, just the probably what I want to tell people. Put down your biases and understand that this is a community issue. It's not for law enforcement or government only. Should we be involved? Yes. But it's a whole community.
Julia: Yeah. Bottom [00:42:30] line is it's a human issue and when we can continue to see one another as human and sometimes our humanity, we get into situations that we don't have the support we need and we just need [00:42:45] someone to connect to us, someone to see us. And to care. And if we can all do that, it's hard to imagine that it wouldn't move us to a better place.
Nate: Absolutely nailed it.
Julia: [00:43:00] Well, Nate, thank you so much for being here. Uh, we will get links to your book, uh, in the show notes as
well as your consulting agency. And, um, just thanks again for [00:43:15] sharing and, uh, we will look forward to the next conversation.