Backpacking Lessons + Fails with Kate & Sarah

In this episode we go over some of the biggest lessons we've learned while backpacking! If you're new to the backpacking world, or just want to tune in for some relatable and light-hearted laughs this episode is for you!

Kate & Sarah are best friends who entered the world of backpacking together and love to share their stories, and adventures of all sorts on the The Explore More Podcast!

Connect with them on Instagram:
Sarah Beard @miss_adventures_
Kate Forest @kateforest.coaching

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What is Fit for Hiking?

Where fitness and outdoors meet. In this space we chat all things hiking, exercise, wellness, adventure, motherhood, and metabolic health from a female perspective! Get ready to learn + be inspired to live your fullest, most adventurous life!

Hi. My name is Brady, and I'm a longtime fitness professional and Midwest girl turned mountain living hiking addict. In combining my knowledge of fitness and passion for hiking, I've helped hundreds of women get lean and strong for the trails. Think of this as your one stop shop for both education and inspiration on all things female wellness, trail talk and adventure. Hiking, female metabolism, motherhood, nutrition, travel, and fitness are all topics you'll hear discussed here. If you are outdoorsy and active, looking to level up your health, unlock your potential, and become inspired to live your most vibrant life, you're in the right place. You're listening to the Fit for Hiking podcast. 1s Hello, and welcome back to the Fit for Hiking podcast. Today we have two guests on the show. We have Kate Forrest and Sarah Beard from the Explore More podcast. And Kate is a dear friend of mine. We work together with Fit for Hiking, and so I was really excited to bring them on today because we're going to be talking about our biggest lessons and fails with backpacking. Some of the things that we've learned through just trial and error along the way. And hopefully this can just be kind of like a funny but also informative episode for anybody who is interested in getting into backpacking but doesn't really know what to expect. And you can learn from our mistakes, but also all of the lessons that we've learned over our years of getting out there into the backcountry. So let's go ahead and get into this. Kate, Sarah, thank you so much for being here. So excited to chat today. How are you guys? Both great. I'm Sarah, by the way. We're so excited to be here. And Kate and I, we've done a lot of backpacking trips together. Actually, most of our backpacking trips have been together, so we have some good stories and can kind of bounce off of each other of all the lessons we've learned throughout the years. Yeah, we actually did our very first backpacking trip together too, so we've seen each other's fails. 1s Yeah, we've learned together, so it's very fun. Oh, gosh. The first backpacking experience I feel like for almost everyone I've ever talked to is like a funny story. So I'm excited to hear your guys experiences. I know mine. I learned most of my lessons from that first backpacking trip. Sadly, not all of them. I had to learn some other ones along the way, but the first one is always a bit of a doozy. How many trips have you guys gone on together now? 2s Oh, five. Yeah, I think probably five. I think five. Yeah. Pretty big trips. Yeah. And that's since 2019. We've hiked a lot beforehand, and then we started backpacking in 2019. So five, I think. Yeah. That's awesome. So for anybody who's maybe newer to the hiking scene, I've actually gotten the question before of what is backpacking? Not everybody knows that they're newer to hiking. So just to simply explain what it is, basically it's a multi day hiking trip where you're packing in all of your stuff to sleep, your tent, your sleeping bag, sleeping pad, all your food, everything that you need. And you're just out there for however many days you plan to go out, whether it's one or, you know, things like the Pacific Crest Trail and some of those bigger trails. Those are like, really long backpacking trips where they are out there for months at a time. So what we're going to be talking about is probably like, the smaller end of that one to maybe three or four night backpacking trips. I personally haven't done anything longer than that. Have you guys done anything longer? No. Okay. Yeah. So especially if you're newer to backpacking, I recommend starting small. So that's kind of what we're talking about, and hopefully this will be helpful. So let's go ahead and get into it. Kate, if you could start us off and just kind of share any big fails that you've had as well as your lessons in the backcountry. Yes. So I feel like I've had a lot of little things that I've had to refine. I don't know if I'd classify them as, like, major fails, but I have two that actually really stand out. And our first trip that we went on, I packed way too many clothes. I thought you had to have a full set for every single day. And it was probably like, ten pounds of just clothes, and I didn't even end up wearing it all. So just learning how to plan for clothes and the correct type of clothes and everything, that was a huge fail of just so much added weight for no reason. And then the second one, and it's actually taken me a while to down pat, was not eating enough food on trail so completely. Just like, losing all momentum because. 1s I don't know why, but when I'm hiking, I don't get the hunger cues that I normally get. And so I just think like, oh, I don't need to eat, I'm fine. I can just keep pushing and then partway through the hike. I am so gassed and I'm like, I don't even feel like I can move. So I've learned to even if I don't physically feel hungry, after a certain amount of miles, I'm like, I have to refuel my body and I need that energy again. So that has helped a lot with sustainability and endurance with hiking, even if it's just a snack or something, like a quick snack, like a quick carb kind of thing that you can get energized with. Yeah, I've had hikes where I'm on them and I'm like, what is wrong with me? I'm out of shape, I'm falling apart as a person. And then I'll be like, oh, I just need some carbs 1s all day. I'm severely depleted. It's crazy how much that can change how you feel on trail. Yeah, it's crazy how many calories you burn. I mean, there's no real accurate way to track it exactly, but you do, you burn so many calories when you're hiking, and especially backpacking with that weight on your back, so you burn through so much more than you think. And yeah, you might not feel, like, stomach hungry, but your body is like, what the heck? I need energy. And you really don't think about it because you're so focused on what's going on around you and getting from point A to point B. You're just like, I'm here, I'm doing it. And then all of a sudden you're dying. What feels like dying? You're like, Maybe I should eat something because it's been a few hours. It's so true. And you also don't want to pack too much food, but then it's like the worst feeling ever if you don't have enough food. So delicate balance we'll get into. Yeah, for sure. What's your biggest feel, Sarah? So I have a couple as well. So one of my biggest fails, I just remembered this. So I was on a backpacking trip in Southern California and. 2s I I looked at the weather beforehand, so I thought I had planned right, but I didn't realize how cold it got, like, in the desert. And I froze my booty, literally. I didn't have the best sleeping bag to begin with, but I thought, Southern California, I'll be fine. I ended up having to strip down, put my emergency blanket in my sleeping bag because I was so cold. I literally thought I was going to have hypothermia or something because it was so cold, and so I got a new sleeping bag right after that and figured out my layers and all that. So that was a really big lesson learned. And then I'll talk about this more in my lessons learned. But shoes, like, having the right shoes while not only hiking, but backpacking is so critical. I'm known as the Queen of Blisters because I was hiking with the wrong shoes and the wrong socks for the longest time. So just making sure having the right shoes is so important and having the right socks, which I didn't even think would be an issue, is one of the most important aspects of being out on the trail. Right. Because if you think about it, you have so much more extra weight pounding into your shoes than you normally do if you're just out on a day hike. Even so, it makes such a difference. And I feel like there's always one friend in every backpacking group that's just, like, ridden with Blisters the whole time. Yeah. And I even had good hiking. It's not even that the shoes were bad. I had Merrill's, but my socks. Were not good. And like, I did a 14 er in them and I had major blisters, but I was like, okay, that was just because I did a 14 or like steep up and down. And then we did a back, like a three day backpacking trip. And the last day, the last 7 miles, I had to go out in my chocos because I couldn't even wear my hiking boots because it was so bad. Yeah, I tell people it's like trying to do a road trip with, like, a flat tire. That's your mode of transportation in. So it's so important you have to have good tires. Otherwise it's like, miserable trying to go anywhere. Yeah, so true. Yeah. So my fails are almost embarrassing because they're so bad. But I have a couple and they're mostly all weather related, actually. So similarly to what you said, Sarah, my first backpacking trip ever was in Guatemala. It was 1s the volcano hike that I actually just redid a couple of months ago. I needed to redeem the experience. It was so bad. So this was probably like, oh, man, like 2017 or something like that. And I just was very much a noob. I didn't know anything about backpacking and I just assumed it's Guatemala. How cold can it really be? It's not going to be that bad. Well, we were sleeping at like, 12,000 plus feet and it is cold in Guatemala at 12,000 plus feet. Spoiler. And we actually ended up getting a storm, like a really bad weather storm. The winds were terrible. You couldn't even hardly see the volcano the whole time, even though it was like a mile away because the visibility was terrible. We were in a cloud. It was like sideways, fleeting. During our summit the next morning, and I had like, little cotton gloves that were soaked and making my hands colder. I literally thought I was going to have, like, frostbite on my hands. I brought like a mid layer and a little tiny rain jacket. One pair of pants, one pair of socks, one hat. I was just so unprepared for the elements. And that was a very scary experience, I would say, because we were up so high. We were doing a big summit and we were spending the night out there just in the middle of a storm. And it made me almost never want to backpack again, to be honest, because I was like, that was terrifying. I never want to be that vulnerable again. I had probably the closest thing I've had to a full blown panic attack on approaching the summit because I just thought I would never get out of that situation. It was so bad. Most of the group didn't summit. People were panicking and running down. It was scary. So I think, like. 1s That was one of my biggest fails, was just not doing my due diligence of researching how the weather could actually be up that high and what the weather could be like that time of year. Similarly, I think it was my second backpacking trip, I was in the Canadian Rockies, and I did not bring a ground pad. Horrible mistake. It was August, and it was snowing on the trail. Typical Canada weather, you just know what to expect. But I didn't think that was going to happen again, just very naively. Didn't really check what the weather would be like in that area on the trail. And, I mean, the ground is so cold if you don't have a ground pad. Again, I didn't really bring great layers. I had some stuff, but thankfully, I was with a couple of friends, and they were able to lend me some things to make it through those insanely cold nights. So mine have all pretty much been weather related, and so it's really taught me how to strategically pack layers, because, like, what you were saying, Kate, you don't want to overpack just, like, random clothes, but you always want to be very prepared. For what if it does drop 50 degrees really rapidly out there and you can't just run back to the car? So 1s those were probably my biggest oopsie moments on the backpacking trails. Well, and that's hard, too, especially because most of the time when you're backpacking, you're in higher elevation, and sometimes you can do so much research and still have no idea what the weather is going to turn out to be. So just knowing what could happen and like you said, being prepared for that is so crucial. Yeah, I think, like. 1s At minimum, like a puffy jacket, like a nice because they're so lightweight and they can pack down into nothing. It doesn't even have to be like a mountain hardware. Like $300 jacket, just something that has some sort of fill in it just in case it might be like a hot summer night and you don't use as a pillow, like add on. But just having that in your pack as a backup and like a rain jacket would be so helpful for sure. For any situation. Yeah. So just find yourself out there and then it makes it miserable because you're unprepared. You're freezing the whole time. It's scary. Yeah. And it makes the hours go by so freaking long. It makes the experience so it's like unnecessary uncomfort. It's going to be uncomfortable no matter what. But there's like a whole point of diminishing return where you're just like, this is actually yeah, you want to avoid that. Exactly. Yeah. So let's get into some of the just general lessons that we all have learned. Kate, if you want to kick us off. Yeah, so I actually just learned the national average on this, but I was saying how to plan appropriate and approximate pace and mileage better. So, like, if you're going for a walk, typically it's like 3 miles an hour. You're like, yeah, I can get, like anywhere in 3 miles an hour. But. 1s Depending on this is just for the average hiker, but depending on how often you're stopping or what the elevation gain is, or what the train is like, or anything like that, you're going to probably be around like one to one and a half, maybe two at max. And if you're going up, you're going to be slower. If you're going down, you're going to be faster, obviously. So then it averages out to that, like one and a half ish and you're going to stop, you're going to take breaks, hopefully you're going to look around and enjoy the scenery. But for planning mileage and when to start your hike and when you're going to be coming into camp and what you should plan for your mileage per day, that one to one and a half miles per hour average is really helpful for planning out the mileage of your trip and just the timing of your trip. So that's something that we didn't really plan on on our first one. And we also did a pretty intense trail for our first one, so it took us longer anyway, but we thought we were like, yeah, we can go like 13 miles in this first little pole. We didn't even get to the trailhead until like, 11:00, and we were like, okay, we're going to stop here at the first lake that we got too. So it helps a lot with planning. 1s Yeah, it can just be nice, especially if you're telling people, which you should tell people at home what your plan is, then it's more accurate. Yeah. 1s Um, and then my second one is that both the mental highs and lows are part of backpacking, and emotions are okay. Like, emotional fluctuations are okay, but at the end of the day, your attitude is absolutely everything and. 1s You know, like we were just talking about, you got to get comfortable being uncomfortable and to a point your gear needs to be there for that extra uncomfortable part, but your mind is going to be your biggest asset by far. 2s So it's funny that you went and you did your first backpacking trip over for redemption. That's what I just did with mine. And I went last week and we did that same trail. And the mental aspect of it, I was just thinking back on the comparison and stuff, and I'm deathly afraid of heights. And so coming out of it, I had to keep my mental self in check so much. And I was just sitting there and I'm like, man, if you don't have that mental aspect, it can actually get pretty dangerous if you start having meltdowns in the middle of nowhere. It's kind of a whole nother layer of safety. Just being able to embrace the suck, being able to push yourself and keep yourself calm and keep yourself logical and stuff. That's a huge part of backpacking, for sure. Yeah. I feel like that can really make or break your experience. I mean, I feel like every backpacker at one point in their life is like, why do I do this? I'm never doing this again. That's normal. But yeah, that's totally normal. I feel like every backpacking trip, I say that, but yeah, keeping your mind in check and just having as much of a positive attitude as you can. And I think it helps surrounding yourself with people that are like that too, because if you're down, they're going to be down and it's just going to be like a cluster of chaos and emotions, but weighing out, like, okay, you're having a low, let's help you out, and I'm going to try to boost you up. So I think that helps as well. Yeah. And just like having people around you that will give you that space because it's like clockwork. Everybody has that moment where they're just like, what am I doing? Why am I out here? And so if you have people that can kind of pick up on it and just kind of be like, okay, we're good, you're good, you can just be quiet, whatever. It's nice to have people that can balance you out, for sure. Yeah. 2s So okay, so my next one is that you do not need name brand everything and where investing your money in gear pays off and where it doesn't, 2s because I think a lot of people get overwhelmed with gear and they think it's going to be like a couple of $1,000 investment, and it definitely doesn't have to be. The things that I really invest 1s my money into are my shoes, which they're really not that bad. You can get them on sale for like $100 to $150, typically with hiking shoes 1s and then my safety, so we have a garmin in reach. So any kind of communication or safety devices or anything like that, that is really important to me. I do not leave for a backpacking trip without that. It's also like navigation, all that kind of stuff, and then sleep system. So I actually don't have top end name brand sleeping bag. Sleeping pad, they're decent. But 1s that is really important because that's your recovery. That's like your comfort at night. Like you said, you have to have a sleeping pad, like a ground pad. You want a sleeping bag that keeps you warm, keeps you comfortable, and then people get a little up in arms about whether or not to take a pillow. Like ultralight hikers will be like, you can't take a pillow. And I'm like, no, I want a pillow. Thousand percent pillow. I'm aside putting my head on the ground. 1s Yeah, but other than that, I feel like. 1s I don't know, I just feel like you can get by with quite a bit that's kind of like that off name brand stuff and you can build your pack as you go. You don't have to start with the best of the best, with everything, prioritize the things that you do want to have that are reliable and then just build your pack as you go. We've both kind of built our pieces as we've gone. You don't have to do it all at once. Yeah, think as long as you have your ten essentials and you know that those are going to get you by in any emergency situation. But yeah, you don't have to have all the fancy things. Just get out there. And even if you borrow something from someone just to test it out, just to get your foot in the water, that's totally fine. You don't have to go all out just to get out. 3s And you so I actually really liked so the camping backpacking trip that you did in Southern California, they had a guy from Zpacs come in and for those who don't know, zpacs is a very expensive, super nice, ultra, ultra, ultra light company. But even he was saying that and he was like, you don't need to compare what you have to other people and hike your own hike, put together what works for you and don't compare to everybody else. So I think that's really important to keep in mind. 2s My next one is that not everybody is your ideal hiking pal and that's okay. So find your trail people and that will make the absolute difference. And your attitudes have to kind of mesh. I don't know. And you don't have to start out as best friends. Sarah has found two great hiking buddies from Facebook that she didn't know about. But just, yeah, finding people that are going to give you patience are going to give you grace and keep you motivated and keep you positive. And you're in very vulnerable situations out there. So you don't want to make it worse by taking someone that you clash with. That's very important. Definitely done that a few times. It makes uncomfortable situations even more uncomfortable because you're just like, so true. I want to have fun out here, but I'm already suffering a little bit. And then it's just like, one more piece on the puzzle of like, okay, you're making this a little extra hard for me. You need to be able to laugh with people. Like, you're going to have so many moments where you're just like, what is happening? Yeah. Laugh at yourself and laugh with each other. And if everybody in the group is really high strung, a little bit uptight, then it's not going to be fun. You have to have a balance of people who are focused, know what they're doing, and then also people who maybe are a little bit more just like, it's okay, we're all going to be fine. Yeah. And I think a big part of that is communicating with the people you're going with even before you even get on the trail. For me, I stop and take millions of pictures. So I preface that before. I'm like, okay, I'm going to be stopping a lot, especially in the cool spots, and I'm going to be taking pictures. I'm going to be taking videos. I'm going to be moving a little bit slower. So as long as you're okay with that, let's go and just have that open dialogue to where they know what you're going to be like on the trail. And you might not know what you're going to be like on the trail if you've never backpacked before for but that's all part of the learning experience and just being open with people you're about to go with, even if it is your first time. I have no idea what I'm doing. So be comfortable saying that, and it'll be fine. Yeah. 2s It exactly makes the biggest difference. Okay, my next one is definitely probably my biggest one that I would shout from the rooftops. For me personally it's to invest in some sunshirts and they are a cheap investment. So the first hike or the first backpacking trip that we did was very exposed and hot and like I said we didn't start until like eleven or something like that. So like midday sun and I had a tank top on. Luckily I had leggings on but I put sunscreen on one time when we left the trailhead and then I didn't put it on again and I got fried. My shoulders got fried, my head got fried, my face got fried and that makes your pack rubbing on your shoulders so miserable. And so the whole way back out I was like every movement hurt. So I got home and I was like there's got to be something I can do about this because you sweat off sunscreen quite often and I started investing in sunshirts so you can literally find them on Amazon. There's a million different brands but just having those they're lightweight and not having to worry about sunscreen and having some of them have a hood. I use the ones with the hood because you could put it on and protect your neck and your ears. It just helps so much and it helps protect your skin. 1s I'm also going to add you should reapply sunscreen every 2 hours. She's my sunscreen friend. Yeah, I'm like the sunscreen Nazi. Make sure you're reapplying even though you should wear it under your sunshirt because you're not fully fully protected. That's true. Yeah, that's a good point. And your hands aren't protected with a sunshirt and your face especially like reapply because you're sweating so much. I mean I am, I don't know about everybody else but I definitely am so reapplying every couple of hours is so important. So wanted to throw that in there. I do, I am good about applying my face sunscreen but I do wear sunshirts for sure. And then my next one is trail comfort versus camp comfort. And we kind of just talked on this but learning how to kind of prioritize and pick which one is more important to you for that specific trip because they're all going to look a little bit different depending on the trail, depending on the length and everything. But there is a difference. So trail comfort is your pack, how it fits, the weight of your pack, that kind of stuff that is going to affect you while you are hiking. And then your camp comfort is obviously like what items at camp make your experience better, what are worth taking even with the weight, what aren't that kind of stuff. So just learning that there kind of is a difference and have your non negotiables for both laid out, and then you can kind of tweak both depending on the hike and kind of, like, get your weight nailed down so it's not too much. And you might not know that until three or four backpacking trips down the road. Of course, first time out, you're not going to know, okay, what am I going to want out there? Most of the time you're packing it all and hoping for the best, but, I mean, that takes time to learn. So for people who've never gone before, don't be discouraged or scared that you have no idea what that is. 1s Yeah. Keep it in mind because it takes some time to really find your niche there. And while you're out there, just think to yourself, like, okay, what could I live without? What are the things that, like, the Marie Kondo thing, like, what's bringing me joy? 3s Exactly. Just keep it in mind and be like, okay, I think I do want to take this every time. I think I could kind of live without. Like, as you're building out your pack, you can just think like, okay, what do I want for camp? Comfort? What do I want for jail? Comfort. And it just makes it a little bit more personable to you. Yeah, so true. Okay, so I know we kind of touched on weight of your pack and all that, but. 1s After my very first backpacking trip, I have realized not only weight matters, but also the size of your pack matters. I for the first trip, like I said, I I borrowed my brother's pack, and it was like an 80 liter pack, so we were going for like, one or two nights. And so I'm like, you know, I gotta fill this baby full of all the things that I can. And my pack was like, 60 pounds. And 3s we actually had someone with us that had a 30 pound pack, and we were like, what that's? Like a feather? Yeah. What did you forget? 2s Legit add, like, a 60 pound pack? Yeah. I packed everything that I thought I would need, and I probably used not even a third of it. And we were on a really sketchy trail, our first backpacking trip. And so how I made it out alive and how I wanted to go on another backpacking trip, I will never know. I think, like, ignorance split, but just finding the right bag for what your intentions are with backpacking is so important. Like, if you think, okay, I'm going to be going on one or two nights, you don't need that big a bag, I'm going to go three to four nights. That's going to be my average. Finding that right pack is really important. And like I said, you don't always have to do that. Your first backpacking trip, borrow someone's, test it out, see how you even feel about backpacking, and then go from there. Rei is really great about fitting people for packs, and I think most sporting goods stores are, but just going there and seeing what fits your body style because everybody's different and everything is going to land different on. 1s Different people. So just finding what fits your body. Yeah. And if you're listening to this and you're like, I don't know what leaders mean, I don't know what any of this means, definitely start with going to Rei or a similar store, some sort of outfitter, because you just don't know these things until you're kind of in that space. So I would recommend going, they will fit you for one based on your build, your size. Again, if you're saying, oh, I probably want to do one to three nights max, then they'll probably help you out with a liter size, which basically means the space that you have based on how many nights you plan on going. All of these things make such a massive difference in your comfort on the trail. I've definitely backpacked with rentals when I was initially starting and I'd go with tour groups and it was such a massive difference when I actually got fitted for one that fit my frame. So I definitely do recommend taking the time. Even if you're not ready to actually invest in one, just go have them fit you, chat with them, get some information. It's really helpful. Yeah, 1s I know a lot of people do this. Go get fitted and then find one that's used. That's the same pack. You don't have to get brand new things just to get out on the trail, so that's always an option too, if you need to budget a little bit more. So definitely recommend getting the right pack size for your body type. And then my next one I kind of talked about before, but your socks and your shoe combination. 1s Are such a big deal. Like I said, I had good shoes before, but I was wearing just some random wool socks that I had picked up from a sporting goods store. I was like, these should be great. No, I had blisters like the size of Texas every time I hiked. And I thought it was my shoes, so I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to go buy a whole nother 150 pair of boots and this is just going to get really expensive. But I went in and they recommended some better socks and I tried that first and that made a world of difference and then later upgraded my shoes to trail runners instead. So just finding that right combination for your feet is so important, and you can do that on small hikes throughout your time. You don't need to do a backpacking trip to figure that out. But just figuring out what works for your feet is such a game changer. After that experience, do you have a brand of socks that you recommend across the board or how would someone figure that out for themselves? So again, I went into Rei and I was like, okay, what do you guys recommend for people that get blisters a lot and there are certain socks? So what's the brand? Darn tough. I use their hiking socks and those have been amazing. But I know there's a lot of brands that are like that. Just the fabric and just smart wool. Yeah, smart wool is good. A lot of them will say that they help prevent blisters. So finding ones that are like that is what I have to go with because my feet are so prone to blisters. And then finding the right shoes, that was even more of a game changer. I use the Ultra Lone Peaks now and having a wider toe box, 1s I don't think I will ever go to anything else because I haven't gotten one single blister from them. Yeah, she was like, because I got the Ultras and she kept getting blisters and I was like, I want to try out this theory, but she got them and she still hasn't gotten a blister. And I was like, if someone's going to get a blister, it's Sarah. And she still has yet to and we've got them. The last trip that we did, we were fully submerged in a creek up to our knees pretty much within the first mile. And then we went ten more miles that day. No blisters. No. And we kept doing creek crossings and there was a part, we called it like the Redneck Narrows because it was like this muddy, like you're hiking up the creek, like narrows from Zion. Oh my gosh. Anyway, yeah, 1s I think, yes, they're going to be very personable to you, but I think a good brand to start and then maybe go out from is Ultra because they do have that wide toe box that's kind of like gold standard ish right now. Yeah, and I always thought I have to have a hiking boot. My ankles are weak. I need that support. But. 1s I mean, even with a trail runner, you still get support. And I haven't had any problems. So it's really just finding what is most comfortable for you. And along with that, 1s having camp shoes that also can double as, like a hiking shoe just in case something goes wrong. You never know what might happen with your hiking boot. You could get a hole in it. Your laces could fall apart. Like something could happen, and you might need a backup pair of shoes. So I always go with my chocos because I know I can walk good distances in my chocos or TIVAS or whatever. And having them double kind of as a camp shoe or a hiking shoe just in case just in case, has actually been really, a really good lesson learned for me. That's a great hack because I hate just having to keep wearing my shoes when my feet are so tired. And it is tough when you're backpacking to be like, okay, so I have to bring a whole nother pair of shoes. But if they're kind of like a multipurpose, then that's a really good idea. Yeah. It has saved my life, I think, more than once. And especially like doing a creek crossing. If you don't want to go through in your boots, take off your boots and put your sandals on. There's so many the options that you can do with that. And it's. 1s It might be like a trail and camp comfort kind of thing, but utility at that point, yeah, at that point, it's like a necessity because you never know when you might need to trade off. So that has been an important lesson. 1s Okay, going into my next one. 1s Snacks are life. And like we talked about before, I feel like they just kind of keep you going. I know it can add up quickly, but I feel like snacks are so important. Most of the time I don't want to eat either. I don't want to eat a big meal before a hike. Sometimes, even when you're done with your trek, you don't want to eat a big meal. So just having enough snacks to properly fuel you is essential and then making sure you store them properly. I didn't once I left my bag open and a bunch of little Chip monks got into my bag and ate my trail mix, and I'm pretty sure I cried. But it's okay. I had lots more snacks because I was prepared. But yeah, just knowing that you should bring more than you think you're going to eat and then I always have this problem where when I'm at the store and I'm like, okay, I need to find the healthiest snacks possible. 2s And then I get on the trail and I'm like, Why? 3s This is an important one. Yeah, it's so important because it's like when you're out there, you're already a little bit miserable sometimes and you just want something good and comforting that will also fuel you, but isn't always the healthiest choice. I feel like I used to always get the healthiest trail mix possible, and I said no more to that. I'm like, I'm getting good stuff and I'm going to indulge when I'm out there. Because you're burning so much calories, you don't need the healthiest option possible. I mean, you still want to fuel your body, which get protein bars, jerky, whatever, do that. But make sure you're getting stuff that's going to actually satisfy you out on the trail. Instead of the healthiest option possible, you want calorie dense items for a low weight. So having something like protein bars or go macro bars that are really calorically dense. So like upwards of 300 calories for a small little thing is going to be so important. And I feel like it's very common where people are like, oh, I typically eat this. Like. 1s Really low calorie bar. So I'll bring that and it's like, okay, you just have to shift your focus. You're not focusing on trying to eat as few calories as possible when you're out on the trail. This is when you need to perform. So you want to make sure that you're getting a lot of bang for your buck with the things that you are carrying. Yeah, and actually enjoying it while you're out there because you don't want to. Yeah, I have that problem too. If I'm at home, I will eat and drink things that are just for the health benefit, and I have no problem doing it at all. My taste buds aren't that picky, and I don't know if it's whether or not because I don't get hungry on the trail. So I feel like I'm almost like, not force feeding myself, but making myself refuel. 1s I will not eat stuff that doesn't taste good to me. I'm like, no nauseous. I almost feel like puking. So I'm like, I don't want things that I don't enjoy. I am going to eat things that I enjoy. Otherwise I'm probably not going to eat at all. And I'm not a picky eater, so keep that in mind. Pick out things that you're going to look forward to because otherwise you might not eat and then you're going to be back at square one. Like we were talking about earlier. Yeah. And also making sure you do like your snacks before you even go. I feel like there's been so many times where I'm like, oh, this would be good out on the trail, but I've never had it before. So it's like, I get out there and I'm like, this is disgusting. I just wasted how many ounces doing this. So just trying things before you even take it out on the trail has been important as well. 1s Okay, so getting into the next one. So be okay with plans changing. So I feel like this is with any outdoor outing that you might do, but especially backpacking. You can have the perfect plan and things could go wrong at any moment. For example, when we did last summer, we planned for two nights out on the trail, and things went south really quickly. We did the first night out there, it was great. Second day we started going and we saw 1s mountain lion scatter, every predator you could possibly imagine. It's very dense forest, too, so, like. 1s I don't know. We were looking at the predator sign and I was like, well, it's okay, whatever. We'll just find a camp. It's something we're used to, but this was like, fresh and it was very excessive. And then we could not find it's so thick that you can't find anywhere off trail to camp, like to physically lay a tent down or lay your body down. So we ended up going out 13 miles and it was over miles worth of blowdowns like trees that had crossed the trail because it was unmaintained, it was wild, it was like a freaking circus. And trees were falling as we were hiking on the trail. It was so scary. I have never been so freaked out on a trail in my life. And I feel like I'm pretty tough. I can handle quite a few things, but just like, one thing after another. And so you kind of just have to go with your gut and be like, yeah, this isn't the right place, this isn't the right time. I just need to get out of here. So we had planned for one more night and like she said, we ended up just going like 13 miles back to the truck. And even though we hiked like 3 miles in the dark and it was terrifying. And going over literally hundreds of trees climbing up and over and below them with a big pack on, not fun. It's not like we signed up for a Spartan race, right? And I'm 510, so I'm no small buck getting under these things and with a big pack. So it was a rough situation and just knowing that 1s it's not always going to go perfectly and that you might have to kind of cater towards that, just always having that in the back of your mind. Yeah, and that's not to scare a that was a very much like, backcountry, not very well used trail, so maybe don't start on trails. Like yeah, but we're just saying, like Sarah said, the best thing that she said in that entire thing is follow your gut. If you don't feel safe, just go and be smart about it, but be okay. Don't get so married to your plan that you do things that are unsafe. Like just follow your gut. Change plans if you need to. And even if that means turning around at the beginning of the trail, you only get a mile in and you don't feel safe or you feel uncomfortable, turn around and just go back to the truck and try another day or go to a different trail. It's not worth your safety, especially if you can feel it in your intuition, in your gut that something's not right. It's just not worth it. 1s Just always remember remembering that. And if you feel like something's off, it probably is. Yeah, and another thing too, though, is like, okay, if you do choose to change your plan. 1s Only if I were you, I would probably only fully change the plan if you have a communication device and you can tell people that you're changing your plan. Otherwise, like Sarah said, probably just turn around and go back the exact way that you came. That's just something to note. Do not go rogue without telling someone. Just go back the way you came. If that if that's, like, the way that the plans are going to change. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. 1000%. It's so important to not just decide, well, since I'm changing my plan, I'm going to go on this route that I didn't tell anybody about. If you're newer to this whole thing and you're not with somebody who's more experienced with navigation in the backcountry yeah, 100%. I feel like 2s that's happened multiple times. And like she said, not to scare anybody away from backpacking, because it does happen, whether you're hiking or backpacking, but just always have that in the back of your mind and be aware of your situation and your surroundings and know that things might not always go 100% planned, 1s but that's okay. All right, so going into the next topic. 2s I feel like this next one a lot of people might struggle with, but I know I for sure do. Sleeping in the backcountry or just sleeping like in a tent. I don't know why I always just get really freaked out. Like a bear is going to snatch me out of there and drag me off into the woods even though it's not likely. But you've all had that. Yeah. And mine's a Reoccurring thought like every second when I'm in a tent. 3s I learned to take Benadryl that has helped me get a little bit of sleep or any type of sleep aid that might work for people. 1s Just something along those lines to help you get a little bit better of sleep when you're out there because you're so tired. And nothing's worse than getting into your tent, getting all cozy and then not being able to sleep. So having some form that you test out beforehand so you know it works on your body or it doesn't work on your body. So you're not doing weird things out in the mountains. But just having some sort of sleep aid has really helped. But we went on a backpacking trip and I had the idea to take two Benadryl because I really needed sleep that night. Well, like 2 hours after I fell asleep, a huge storm rolled in and it was fire season and so everybody's out of their tents freaking out that there might be a fire that is going to come into our camp. And I'm like a zombie. So lesson learned. Don't take too much because I literally thought like, okay, if we're going to have to pack out of here right now, I don't know how I'm going to hike back down this trail because I can barely put 1ft in front of the other. So there's a fine balance of getting good sleep and drugging yourself. So just making sure that you're in the right headspace for all that. And like I said, testing it out before is really important because I'd never done taken drill before so I know that hits me a little bit harder than it should. So that was a really big lesson learned because it was a little scary, right? 2s And then I just kind of for mine, I want to end on we kind of talked about this before, but it's really easy to get overwhelmed with all the products that are out there and everything that people are talking about and 1s what they're doing. But I think the best thing is just to get out there and try it for yourself and learning those lessons for yourself, because you don't know until you try and and you don't know what you're going to want. You don't know what you're going to need until you physically do it yourself. And it's all about learning from your own personal experience. So even though we're saying all these things, it's really going to depend on the person. So just start slow, start easy. Even if it's just like a 1 mile trip somewhere, even if it's in your backyard, just getting out there, getting out of your comfort zone just a tiny bit makes such a big difference because it builds that confidence to do even bigger and crazier trips. Really. Like starting out with a hike where maybe you're just going 3 miles in on a trail that you do as a day hike. If you're allowed to backcountry camp there, then you don't have that fear of, I'm so far away from my car, if something were to happen, you can hike back. And so I think it's a good way to ease into it so that you don't have that massive fear of what if I forget something? Because you are going to be learning, you're going to make mistakes. So it takes away some of that fear, I think, to do something like that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I feel like just making that little tiny memory of that familiar activity. When you do push it and you go further, it's more comfortable because you're like, okay, I do have something that is familiar that I know I can do. I know my gear, I know all this kind of stuff, and it doesn't add fear to what you're already doing, like that uncomfortable situation. So, yeah, like we said, start super small and make sure you always have the ten essentials. But you don't have to go super crazy for your first trip about baby steps and building from there. Absolutely. Yeah. So you guys covered so many, but I have a few of my own as well, so. 2s One was kind of based off of my massive fails is understanding the climate and conditions of where you're headed and what extra layers might be worth the added weight. Because doing a backpacking trip at 4000ft is going to be very different from doing a backpacking trip at 10,000ft or something like that. It's so important to be aware of how much the temperature is going to drop at night. How prone to storms is that area are you going to be above treeline? Is it really exposed, all of these types of things? Because it can totally change in an instant. If you're at really high altitude, especially in the mountains, the weather can change really fast. I've been caught in storms above treeline backpacking. It's scary as hell. And I've experienced every possible bad weather situation I feel like in the backcountry. So just being prepared with things like what we talked about before a puffy, having a really good pair of gloves, having multiple pairs of good socks, always having a hat, always bringing some sort of wind or rain jackets, things like that, just in case the weather does go to crap really fast, you want to be prepared. 1s Another thing is kind of a gross one, but it needs to be talked about is knowing what to do with your poo on the trail because there's different regulations and expectations based on the different hiking areas. So doing research about what am I supposed to do with my personal waste. Some trails I've done in the backcountry actually have random trail toilets that are just set up by the camping areas, so that might be the case. Others you might have to bury it, others you might need to pack it out. So it's really important to understand. And same with feminine products. Like if you're on period, like making sure you're always packing out your tampons if you have a little one, packing out diapers, all of those things. Like having some sort of system for how you're going to handle that. So you don't just show up and be like, oh crap, I didn't even think about this. Yeah, on the note of that, I always put in an extra gallon size Ziploc bag just for any extra waste like that you don't plan on, because that is really important too. For toilet paper, for wipes, anything, trail snack, garbage, all sorts of stuff. And it's like virtually zero weight. 1s Such a great tip. 1s The next is to know if you are in bear territory and if you need to bring a bear canister. A lot of trails will like, if you're looking at the regulations of going, you actually have to bring a bear canister. You can't go without one. So knowing if that's a necessary thing and if it's listed on there, there's a reason for it. I've made that mistake where I had a bunch of my food eaten by a bear in the night. And that's scary because then you're drawing a bear near to where you're sleeping, so you want to make sure that you have now I just always backpack with a bear canister. It's added weight, but it's worth it just for that peace of mind of storing anything that has a scent, anything edible in there at night and making sure that you're not going to know. Drawing bears to your, you know, like what Sarah was talking about with fear around, like, that's very real. So if you're really anxious about wildlife, do some research about maybe you don't want to do a trail where there's likelihood that there's a bear or even state by state. Certain states have grizzlies and certain states don't. I personally feel a little bit uneasy backpacking in grizzly territory. 1s And so I have done a backcountry trip in Wyoming and I was so anxious the whole time that I don't know that I would do that again, to be honest. It's personal preference, and it's okay if you don't want to hike or backpack in certain areas because of that fear. There's nothing wrong with having those preferences. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that, for sure. And I think I kind of piggyback off that too. Like having protection from bears, too. Like you said, it depends on state laws and stuff, whether you can have bear spray or whatever form of protection that works best for you. But. 1s I I can't go without it anywhere I go, even if it's on a little day hike, I always have at least bear spray on me because you never know, even if it's like a human that person. Yeah, you literally never know. So just being prepared with some form of protection and I feel like bear spray is a really good one because they can be far away from you and you can make your distance known. And so just remembering that on any trail you go on, especially backpacking, it's a little bit of comfort knowing, okay, I have bear spray next to me in case something does happen. Just keeping that in mind. 1s We kind of talked about this with the boots versus trail runners, but I definitely want to reiterate that it's helpful to do some longer day hikes in boots versus trail runners and see which one you prefer. A lot of through hikers who do the Pct, Appalachian Trail, all of these bigger through hikes do it in trail runners because it's lighter weight. You're not picking up your feet over and over again with these big, heavy boots. And I used to be also in kind of this camp of like, well, I need my high ankle boots to feel stable. And then I did a backpacking trip in trail runners and was like, wow, this feels amazing. My feet feel so much lighter, less hot. And yeah, I wasn't struggling with blisters either. So I think, personal preference, try them out. If you do feel like you're prone to blisters in your boots when you do long, long miles or backpacking. Yeah. And to remember, trail runners don't mean you have to run. I don't run on trails, but I use trail runners, so it's such a different feeling than hiking boots. But. Like you said, Brady, it all depends on the person and what you're comfortable in. So definitely try both because I know people that swear by boots and I know people that swear by trail runners. And it's just a matter of yep. And then another little one is just having necessities. Like you talked about the garment in reach for safety, having a small first aid kit, and then having a water filtration system. Before I got into backpack, I used to think that you just had to carry like, mass quantities of water. You have like a culligan. Yeah, I really didn't know. I was like, well, what else can you do? I don't know. So you need to know that you can bring a water filter so that you just bring one water bottle or something like that. And then obviously check the trail and make sure that you have reliable, clean water sources that you can fill up at and that they're not dried up or anything. So that's just like, if you're a total newbie, like I was, that's something I just didn't know. And then the final thing is that you really don't need to do massively long or intense backpacking trips to be hardcore enough. I feel like I've struggled with that because I'll do maybe one backpacking trip a year. It's not like I'm just out there constantly in the backcountry doing these five night things. The most I've ever done is two nights. I just like doing shorter ones because by that third day, I'm like, okay, I could go eat a burger in town now. That's my personal preference. It's okay if you want to just kind of be in that middle of the road. And also if you want to just start with one night, I think that that's a really good place to begin. And I would also piggyback on that and say going with either someone who's really experienced or some sort of tour company or like a group hike or something like that, where you're with other people. So you have that ease of mind of, like, if something were to go wrong, I have people who know how to handle it. I think that's really helpful. When you're first starting out, I would recommend your first one or two trips to do it in that format so that you can just have fun and learn from more experienced backpackers 100%. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And I think realistically, for the average person, we're probably going out on weekends. Or if you're someone who maybe uses vacation time to go backpacking. So, yeah, that one to two night is actually probably going to be the more realistic option for most people. And you should never, ever feel ashamed of not doing like, a giant through hike. It's totally okay. Everything's valid. Even like going car camping is valid. So, yeah, just get out there and do your own hike. Your own hike. Yes. Love it. Okay. So to wrap things up, I want to hear everybody's luxury backpacking items. I think that this is really fun to hear because everyone has their things where you're like, I know that this doesn't make sense from a weight standpoint, but I'm bringing it because I need my little treat or I need that comfort item. I'd love to hear what your guys luxury items are. 1s So I guess I'll start. So, Kate and I, we talked about this before, but wipes, whether they're like to go to the bathroom for your body, whatever. I feel like those have been such a game changer, especially after a long day. Just wiping yourself off if you're not near a water source just makes the world of a difference. You feel like a whole nother human. And going into that, I'm I'm so big on skincare routines that I bring my full on skincare routine with me. So I have a face wash, I have moisturizer sunscreen. Of course, I'm doing the whole thing morning and night, making sure my skin is taken care of. And I feel good while I'm out there, so I have no shame in bringing little mini things of my skincare routine because it just makes me feel so much better, and I know my skin is taken care of. 1s And then, yeah, I think those are my two really big ones. And then also a chair or a hammock. So, like, a little backpacking chair or a hammock. I feel like those just make. 1s Everything more comfortable, like a hammock while you're at camp or a chair. This last one, I've never taken a chair until this last trip that I did a couple of weeks ago. And just even stopping for snack breaks and stuff, just being able to pop your little chair out instead of sitting in the grass or sitting in the dirt made such a world of a difference. So that goes back to the trail comfort versus camp comfort kind of thing, but I won't go without either a chair or a hammock now. It takes pressure off your hips and, like, your back, and it just feels so good. It's such a, like I don't know. I agree with that 100%. I have to have one or the other, I think typically. Usually I reach for a chair more often now, but I love hammocks. They're fun, but I'd say so depending on the area, if I can fly my drone, like, legally there, I take a drone. I have a DJI Mini Three, so it's not that much weight, but it definitely is a little bit. And if I am able to fly, I like to capture the moment, get a little bit of a bird's eye view, but if not, I don't take it. And then I just now on this last backpacking trip last week, took my binoculars, and I probably won't take them on every trip, but if I know there's going to be, like, mountain goats and really awesome views, or I'm like a mountain and like a map nerd. So if I'm in an area where I'm going to get a really good view of the area and I want to see peaks that I know from far away and that kind of stuff, then I'll probably take my binoculars. Not on everyone, but that was really cool because we had so many mountain goats on this trip. 1s Yeah. And then the last two. So I have these things, they're called Snoozies. They're like slipper sock things, and I don't use them in the middle of summer, but if I know that it's going to get cold at night, I put them on over my socks, and they keep my feet extra warm, and they are like feather light, and they're like $14. Another little luxury thing that I take. And then my last one I haven't done this yet, we were just talking about this, but my favorite mountain house meal is now the chicken fettuccine Alfredo. It's like Olive Garden in the backcountry. Ten out of ten, for sure. It's so good. And so 1s my friend Kenzie and I were talking about garlic bread, and I was like, man, that just sounds so good. And then I was like, Wait a minute. Garlic bread weighs like nothing. Like, I'm taking a whole garlic bread with me. So we're going to try that have I'm going to pack in garlic bread, and we're going to have garlic bread with our dinner and that's going to be, like, a new luxury. Yeah. I think it's Renee roaming. Who? She'll post. Oh, yeah. Charcuterie boards in the backcountry and I'm like, hell yeah. I hate that. 1s Stigmatized to bring some of these luxury items that you just like you're working so hard to get to this awesome view. You want to enjoy it. Exactly. Really fun. Yeah, exactly. Make it fun. Especially when it's food. I'm a food driven person, too, so if I can have a really good meal at the end of a hard day, that just makes the experience 1000 times better. Yeah, it's pretty much what I talk about for the entire second half of every night I'm on Ever. I'm like, what am I eating after this? Let's talk about it. Exactly. So my luxury items are 1s similar to what you said wipes. Like, I have to be able to wipe myself down. Brush. I get, like, a rat's nest. My hair is just like that. So I hate having dreads in my hair. So if I'm not French braiding my hair, I bring a brush. Mascara. Just because I feel like I take it too. That's the one piece of makeup that I bring because I just feel like I don't want to look like a dead person in every photo. I take it, too. 1s My eyes are always squinty in photos. If I don't have on mascara, I just am not about it. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm like a founding father. Because my hair is greasy. I need a little something on here, something to make me look like a human. A little bit canned wine. I know it sounds so bougie, but usually after we get to a really epic view, my husband and I, usually I'm backpacking with him. We like to have a toast and enjoy it. So we'll either fill up those little zipper things I don't know how to describe it, but 1s just something like that where we can either put a liquid in there or just bring, like, a can of something, and he might bring beer or whatever. To us, it's just like, a fun bonus. And then a pillow. I always bring, like, a little blow up backpacking pillow because I just have found that it makes such a difference for me with sleep. Yeah. I brought two last time. One for my legs, one pregnant. 2s That's very valid. Yeah. But I'm like, I don't even care. I'm bringing two. They're like, Wait, judge me all you want. 2s Well, this has been so informative and helpful and fun. So thank you guys so much for being willing to come on and chat today. And hopefully our listeners who are either currently backpackers or want to get back into backpacking can get a lot out of this. So thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, it's been really fun. I love conversations like this. Me too. Awesome. All right, well, we will see you guys in the next episode. Thanks for being here. 1s Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Fit for Hiking podcast. As always, I hope it leaves you feeling inspired and informed on how to take your health and adventure into your own hands. For more content like this, be sure to follow along with my daily posts at ponytail underscore on a trail that's ponytail underscore on a trail. You can also to stay up to date on my new episodes being released at fit underscore for hiking and find more free [e-mail]. Happy and healthy trails.