It's About Autonomy, Not Control

Dr. Jeanette Benigas and Megan Berg discuss the idea of trying to change the direction of ASHA by getting on the board of directors- a concept that has been brought up by SLPs on social media. The episode covers how systemic factors limit practicing clinicians, particularly those whose views do not align with ASHA’s, from successfully moving through the board’s nomination and election process. Megan and Jeanette and encourage SLPs to take action in areas where they do have control.

Become a sustaining partner.
Follow us on Instagram.
Find all of our information at fixslp.com and sign up for our email list to be alerted of new episodes and content.
Email us at [e-mail].
Leave us a message on our Meltdown in the Minivan line.

★ Support this podcast ★

Creators & Guests

Host

Jeanette Benigas, PhD/SLP

Host of Fix SLP

What is Fix SLP?

Fix SLP is a grassroots advocacy firm here to challenge the status quo in speech-language pathology by driving real change—from insurance regulations to removing barriers to full autonomy like the CCC. This podcast is your space to learn, engage, and take action in the field of speech-language pathology. We don’t wait for change. We make it.
Hosted by Jeanette Benigas, PhD, SLP

Megan Berg 0:00
Hi, everyone. I'm Megan Berg

Jeanette Benigas 0:02
and I'm Dr. Jeanette Benigas.

Megan Berg 0:04
And we are here to fix SLP.

Jeanette Benigas 0:06
We are discussing the biggest challenges that are currently holding back the field of speech language pathology.

Megan Berg 0:12
We present the issues with facts and invite you to be part of joining our movement to make things better one conversation at a time.

Jeanette Benigas 0:19
Let's fix SLP.

Hey, everybody, welcome back. We are sitting for an episode that has a hard timeout, Megan and I have a meeting. So we wanted to talk to you today about running for the board. Because there have been a lot of conversations happening on social media, some of them we've been tagged on, which is fun. Some of them we haven't been and I've just been creeping on them or jumping in.

But I I don't think I personally have ever seen conversations like this happening around board nomination time begun.

You're on Instagram, sometimes Reddit, you've been on Facebook in the past? Have you ever seen anything like that happening before? Well, what is happening because I think this is happening on Facebook. So I'm Yeah, mostly on Facebook, well, people are actively discussing the board and running well that you and I run for the board. Or that somebody else run for the board or are having someone try to get elected to the ASHA Board, who is sort of in the same mindset of the fixed SLP movement. Again, we're not always being named.

But certainly it is in the tone of to change Asha.

Megan Berg 1:58
So we should probably talk about how that process works, and how it's changed over time. So it used to be,

and this is something that we got wrong. And I I've learned a lot in the process of creating this content.

So it used to be that you could nominate anyone for the board. And if you had enough people nominate that person, they would get on the ballot. And then it was a popular vote. So whoever won basically just got the most amount of votes. But the problem with that system, is because we have this sort of hierarchical patriarchal, academic heavy system, you were having like entire university systems and like the old boys club, basically controlling who was on the board because they could get everyone at their university to nominate and vote for certain people. And so they changed the policy. And I know, at first when I read about that or heard about that, I thought it was complete nonsense, because like, the way it works now is there's a nominating committee. And so they nominate people for the board. And that the reason they did that is to prevent the old boys club stuff from happening and try to diversify the board.

But but that's not a perfect solution. Because now what happens is, if you want to get on the board, you have to be nominated by that committee. So, you know, hundreds of people theoretically could contact that committee and be like, we want Sally to run on the board. But then what happens is everybody goes through a vetting process. And I have no idea what that vetting process looks like. But I'm willing to bet that you have to be involved with Asha. And you have to have volunteered and you have to have proven yourself as aligned with ashes core mission and values, which makes sense because it's their board, like they get to decide what they're doing. And so this brings me to the fact that like, I'm not here to change Asha. I don't, Asha can do what it wants to do. Like I don't, I'm not anti Asha. I personally don't want to support them because they don't align with my professional goals or personal values. But they can keep doing what they're doing. And they get to set their own rules. And so, for me, it's not about like infiltrating the board and trying to change Asha and having some sort of coup. It's like getting to a point where Asha can do what it wants to do. And if you don't want to be affiliated with with ASHA, you can still be an excellent SLP practicing or in academia or whatever you want to do, and not be associated with Asha.

Jeanette Benigas 4:55
Yeah, I...

I 97% Agree. Ooh, tell me about the 3% I just think, yes, yes to everything you just said, especially at the end of, you know, let Asha do their thing, I want to have choice, I don't have to be affiliated, I can still be an amazing SLP. Without that. However, Asha is going to continue to have a huge influence on national international speech issues. On students who don't know any better on SLPs, who have never learned, they're going to continue to use their money and their power to try to push decisions and policy that will get in the way. And you and I have experienced, they're good at wordsmithing, they've got some good lawyers. And so they'll just find another way. And so I do think unless someone is willing, which you and I have talked about, and have kind of come to the place where we're not in the place to do this right now.

But unless someone comes up with an alternative membership association, or there are large changes that Asha,

they're just going to keep asking, and, and so getting them to change from the inside out is, in my mind,

a good idea, not not really the focus of what we're doing.

But if there's someone who wants to do something like that, I think it's a great idea. I don't, for all the reasons you just said on how you get on the board. I don't think it would happen, I don't think someone like you or I ever be chosen by that nominating committee. And then if chosen, like when I think of the vetting process, I think of the vetting process to become like a princess in England, to like Mary, William, or what, you know, those women are heavily vetted, right, like everything, or

I don't know where

I think something like that, I just I feel like that.

That vetting process alone will show that

SLPs like you and I are not qualified or good candidates to align with their values. And so then even if even if you get the nomination, you get through the vetting process, somehow, like magic has happened. Then the other thing I've been saying in some of these social media posts, posts and conversations going on, is to then be aware that you can be kicked off the board. So even,

you know, when someone were to make it through who is kind of aligned with the things that we're saying, or who wants to change Asha, if you push back enough, they're gonna kick you out. So, um, I've just been my advice has been, if someone wants to do that, it's a great idea. But that person needs to be ready for a fight. It is not going to be like

an easy road.

Who wants that kind of stress

It'd be easier to just start a new membership association, I think.

Megan Berg 8:31
Yeah,

I'm just Yeah.

Jeanette Benigas 8:36
But it's not you and I to do it. That's not what we're doing here.

And you and I are not good candidates anyway, because I have a PhD. I'm in academia, yes, I practice clinically, but not full time anymore. And just to be clear, until a year and a half, small handful of months ago, I was working full time hours clinically. So I haven't been out of it for very long. But I am out of it. I am out of that kind of full time meet productivity work. And, and I don't see myself going back to that with my company. So I'm never going to be a good candidate. I'm always going to have a PhD, I might not always be associated with academia, who knows what the future holds. But my clinical career looks different than the nine to five SLP. You were clinically same situation not full time. And you own a business. And so you're not the person who should be representing full time clinicians grinding it out every day who really need a seat at that table.

Megan Berg 9:44
Right. And the systemic problem is that the people who should be at the table don't have the time in a daily schedule to volunteer for Asha. Do all of the goody goody things that are going to get you on the goody-goody committee and get you through through the goody-goody vetting process like, it's the system is not designed for practicing SOPs to be part of the system.

Jeanette Benigas 10:10
And even man, it's not even meant for clinicians who are in administration, because sometimes you might see that too, like, there might be a company who a big hospital system who has an SLP in the administration or a hospital, or I'm sorry, a school, who has an SLP in the administration that they do allow that to be part of their job or their work description.

It's not the kind of seat that clinicians need at the table isn't that either, because that person is making or at least going along with the crap policies that all of the clinicians need to be following. And they're not treating nine to five, like, it needs to be a clinician working for five days a week for 10s, you know, 40 hours, 30 hours, geez, even 27 hours a week

might do it. But you know, it Are they is your employer gonna let you leave three, four times a year to go to board meetings for a couple days, like

a business takes place during business hours, which is when everybody's working.

It's all kinds of things aren't even set up

to accommodate a clinician who's working.

Megan Berg 11:40
In I mean, I, like everybody has different motivations for getting on the board.

And from my outside perspective, I think there are people who get on the board who really do want to change things. But then they get there and they realize the water they're swimming in, and it's an uphill battle. And the culture of Asha is just not one that's really open to a lot of changes, like they will not be until their budget is impacted, like until they have to be accountable to members. They're just gonna do what they want.

I do think that there are people like,

I shouldn't say it that way, I do think that there is a pathway for people. If you want to work for Asha, getting on the board is a great way to start that process. And I think there's historically been a flow of people who work their way up to like the president position. And again, all of these are unpaid, volunteer positions. So the president of Asha is unpaid.

But then that opens the door for them to become CEO. So this is this, I'm looking at the tax return from 2021, CEO salary was $759,000, with an additional over $150,000, in compensation. And a lot of these executive staff members are making around two to $300,000, with anywhere from 50 to $174,000, in bonus payments. And so

that's just another thing to consider is like, it's not just getting on the board, then you're dealing with the culture of Asha. And you're also working with these people who might be utilizing this as a pathway to work themselves into an executive position. And then you just get all of the politics involved in that. And I just, I think it would be a very frustrating experience for anyone who was of our mindset to try to sit at that table. And, and watch. the sausage made.

Jeanette Benigas 13:51
Yeah. And that's something else I've been saying in some of the responses to is that I personally feel that you and I can be making a much bigger difference doing what we're doing right now. This this podcast, the education, the post, there are other people that I see on Instagram regularly, we just had a full conversation is a bunch of us on someone else's account on someone else's post.

That is educating in the same way. So that kind of education, just getting the word out there a Megan and I don't own this information.

We don't own this idea. So, you know, just getting the information out, to carving out your little niche and deciding what you're going to take on might be a better Avenue than sitting in that boardroom with all those people who aren't all looking out for themselves, but some of them are themselves only and not the profession or the nine to five clinician or you know, you said the word bonuses. Where are those coming from? Retention you

New membership, you know, those who knows, but those aren't common because they did it. They were smiling nice. And it has to do with the flow of money bonuses come from the flow of money into an organization.

So that float, you know, there's, again, those motivations to get that money in and everybody wants that bonus. I just, yeah, I mean, Asha, at the end of the day is a business.

Megan Berg 15:30
It's not a regulatory body. It's a business and they're trying to make money. And they know that they can make money by requiring this certification.

This optional certification. Sorry, did I interrupt you? Now, I'm just

Jeanette Benigas 15:48
we don't have a bulleted list of points we want to say today. So I'm thinking and talking and drinking this coffee out of my, I don't do mornings.

Like this. It's 1243. Here to be clear.

Megan Berg 16:05
I think also, like we've had a lot of messages, a lot of messages about, you know, let's get actually to say something about Israel. Let's get Asha to say something about Palestine. Let's get Asha to say something about Trump. Let's get Asha to say something about stuttering.

Let's get Asha to say something about body autonomy, like an AI. We all have our own personal

perspectives and views and values and priorities. But I would argue that the goal here is not to get Asha to do anything like we don't, we can't make Asha, do anything. And that's the whole crux of this fix us LP platform is like, we're being forced to be associated with a voluntary membership association.

Who doesn't always align with our personal and professional goals and values. So we can't make Asha do anything, which is weird, because we are, theoretically, the members of Asha. So they're supposed to be listening to us, but they don't have to. Because they know that we have to pay because of the way the system is that they've created it. So we can't make Asha, do anything, we have to work towards autonomy from Asha. And the only way we can get autonomy from Asha is to clear up this CCC nonsense, and like collectively decide that we're done with that. And we're going to work with our state associations to get it out of our legislation. We're going to work professionally with our colleagues to recognize that state licensure is the gold standard. And we're going to move on from the certification that's the only way that we're going to be autonomous from Asha, because they know that that's the only way that they can force us to be associated with their membership. And we've talked about this a lot. But like, a OTA has a membership rate of 28%. A PTA has a membership rate of like 23%, there are more

SLPs that are members of Asha, than there are SLPs, as reported by the year, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, meaning that, you know, it's not 100% membership rate, but it's pretty damn close. And so that's just where we are. And so, I mean, if people want to join the board, that's one way to do it. But I think when you think about like, you know, your circle of control, and what you have control over, like none of us really has control over Asha. Even if somehow we were able to get on the board, we would have very, very minimal control once we got there. But we do have control over how we sign our name, are we including the CCC and our name? Are we using our names and our professional image to uphold the value of the CCC? Or are we just signing our name, ma or Ms. SLP or whatever your degree is?

We have control over our ability or like the way that we join and, and interact with our state associations. So are we putting our energy and our effort into talking about how to fix regulations so that the CCC is no longer required to build Medicaid. And in the case of Nevada and Virginia, like the CCC is no longer required to get licensed. Like those are things we have an immense amount of control over within our local state associations and regulations.

What else do we have control over?

I think if you have to have your CCC like you don't have to be a member of ASHA, you can be a certified non member you only

You save yourself 26 bucks, but that's something you have control over. You don't have to pay for the CEU registry.

Jeanette Benigas 20:09
You can spend your time. If you can't let your CCC go because your employer doesn't allow it. You can spend time consistently educating them, you can consistently educate your colleagues. So more colleagues equals more of you approaching administration providing the facts and all of the links that we have available for you to use. Consistency a one time ask and a no doesn't mean failure, you have to have perseverance and endurance. And this, we've keep saying it, it's a long game, but you have control over that. You also can be educating people who aren't your employers. So just the other day, I responded to a recruiter for a company that I used to work for.

I knew the conversation, I totally set this person up. And I don't even feel bad about it. But I knew the conversation that was coming. And I you know, kind of pretended like I wanted the job, I was semi transparent and said I'm a professor. So I'm not available for what one. But I did say like is the CCC required. And they got back with me and said yes. And I sent like 18 pages of information via text to that recruiter. And I said, I know that you don't make these. And I was very nice. I know that you don't make these policies. But the things that are happening in the SLP community will impact your ability to hire, maybe not this time, but down the road. Because as more and more clinicians elect to let their CCC go in Ohio, because it's not required for anything, you're going to have less of a pool of SLPs to hire from. And he probably thought I was crazy. But you know, it's more of us doing that just, you know, taking 10 minutes to educate some poor recruiter who might pass it along.

Over time, all of these little things that we can choose to do and choose to control will make a difference.

Go ahead.

Megan Berg 22:29
I just I was gonna say sharing our content and continuing to have conversations because I think there's a lot of ambivalence to in the world of SLP. There's, there's people who hear what we're saying, but they're so wrapped up in all the other, you know, there's a lot of other problems to solve in this field. And it's kind of like, okay, why are you? Why are you picking the CCC? Like, why? Why is that the starting point. And I think just continuing to have the conversation of like, the reason that we can't solve any of the other problems in our field is because we are expecting and relying on a national association that can't really do anything. And so until we have that autonomy, and until we learn, and embody what it feels like and what it looks like to be problem solvers, and autonomous professionals, then none of the other issues are going to get resolved. And so when you're talking to friends or colleagues who have maybe heard of this movement, but they're kind of disinterested like

Unknown Speaker 23:32
that, that's an opportunity. And that's something within our control, to just continue to bring up the conversation and share. You know, the graphics that we're putting up on Instagram, and maybe make it if you have like, weekly or monthly staff meetings or something like just continuing to bring it up and not letting it get lost and the piles of all the other problems that are being addressed. And I think we've talked about this, too, is like it's just a matter of persistence in this issue has come up time and time and time and time again, over the last many decades. And it's always just kind of fizzled out. And this time is different because we are here for the long haul. And it's just given persistence, and it's going to take all of us to keep bringing it up and keep talking about it until it's resolved. It's time is different because there's almost 15,000 of us today.

Jeanette Benigas 24:27
Yeah,

I mean, it's

that's how that's one way that it's different. Is I think that this I've been thinking this and I don't know maybe maybe maybe you've said it before but even someone pointed it out again, who's been in the field for a little longer than I have maybe even around the same time.

This is the first time that anything has actually caught on, you know and to this level, that with this many people

We'll still in this short period of time continues to show that people actually are interested in do care about being autonomous or this topic or, you know, even welcome here, we've continued to say we we don't all have to have the same exact opinion in case in point, Megan and I don't always have the same opinions. But we have still have great conversations and move towards the same result that you know, we're all trying to move towards some kind of change, which by the way, is not fixed. A S H. A, it's fixed s LP, right?

Yeah. That was insane. I've been holding that in for like, five minutes while you're talking. I had to remember it.

Yeah, so even if your opinions are slightly different than ours, that's okay, too. And you can still educate and share. Because with every person who follows us or or gets interested in it, lots of things are going to come that need to be changed and there'll be many layers of opinions.

Megan and I are taking turns muting ourselves to cough

I can't just result and claim it same I accept mine was aspiration for sure. It hurt what I drink that coffee.

So yeah, we that what Megan said, that's something else as people I have been getting a lot of messages. I Megan's on our socials, I'm only on Facebook Megan's on our Instagram, but I tend to camp there, I think. So I'm very quickly responding. And so I've responded to a bunch of messages about, I wish I could help. But I don't have the time. Or I can't let my CCC go. I wish there was something I could do. So Megan just said all of those things, but my number one answer has been join Bumble.

Share with everyone and very specifically share our content. Because I don't think people realize how much of an impact that has. I watch I analytics is part of like my core personality, I watch these numbers, even if I don't always understand them. Like even like looking at trends and graphs.

I watch our numbers like crazy. And when someone new with an account, an Instagram account shares one of our pieces of content in their stories, there is a spike on the graph with our membership numbers. A couple of weeks ago, somebody shared that I don't even think you and I were aware of the graph shot up to it, we got 300 new followers that day. Just that day. I mean, it matters, it matters so much. And I'm so thankful for that person doing that I don't think that person realizes probably does not realize how much of an impact that had. And you don't have to have a huge account with 30,000 followers, you could share to your your personal account where you have 200 followers, and 15 of them are your colleagues and friends from grad school. And six of them join us just think then they share and then they share and then they share. And every six people every five people just lets more and more clinicians know what's going on. Because 15,000 people is a very, very small percentage compared to the 198,000 that continue to pay for the CCC every year.

It's like

Unknown Speaker 28:59
Aflac.

Megan Berg 29:01
And you mentioned Pumble. So I'm just gonna say like, we keep saying Pumble, join Pumble, Pumble Pumble! And like for anyone who hasn't used it, it's just like Slack. And if you haven't used slack, it's basically just a private social engagement platform. So when you join, you'll see a list of states. Each state has their own channel. And you can like if you're from Nebraska, you can go into the Nebraska channel and you can see the conversation and of all the people who have joined from Nebraska so you can go into any state and view the conversation. So for example, you could pop into North Carolina, they're always doing really great things. Yeah, they're working hard to get Medicaid. regulations changed.

And so you can make connect with other people to see what they're doing.

Jeanette Benigas 29:49
Kansas is about to start ramping up in the next month. I think the plan was for someone to start leading that in February. So if you're from Kansas, and you don't like that you

Do the CCC to bill Medicaid? I've seen good conversations I think in New York to maybe.

Yeah. But so it's all grassroots local conversations. But don't wait. either. I'm Megan and I are in there. You know, if I think of it, I pop in and I read and I, most of the time, I don't join the conversation or, or comment or anything. Because Megan, and I cannot do all the things, we cannot fix all the problems. But we can help, again, kind of organize at this higher level for these grassroots efforts to happen. And so we've created this place for you to do that. Don't join your Bumble channel and say, oh, there's only five people in here and no one has started talking yet. Start talking, be the person who makes the change, you want to see, be that person, start leaning it, eventually more people will join. And you can read back on all of those messages, too. So, you know, start the conversation, say I think these are the problems. These are the things I would like to see changed in this state. We had a very good state by state episode drop

on January 11, from Iowa and Ashley from Iowa discussed how they protected one of their CPT codes. So other music therapists I believe, can't build them. Man. Is that something we should take on nationwide? Yes, but they didn't wait. They did it. They did the work. So those are the kinds of things that can come out of your Bumble channel, you can choose to connect with your state association or not. You don't have to have that. We will be interviewing soon. I think we have it's good. I have so many things scheduled. I'm pretty sure I have scheduled with Briana from Ohio, who with some other colleagues, change the Medicaid rates, not with the state association involved.

Megan Berg 32:08
So it can be done. Yep. And even if you go in there, and there's three other people, I guarantee you that four people in your state you will do you will accomplish way more than being on the board of Asha can I ever accomplish.

Yeah, I think we got to wrap it up.

Jeanette Benigas 32:30
But oh, yeah, we have a meeting. See, I said this is going to be short. I told Megan she's like you want to wait, I said it'll force us to stop if we go now. Alright guys, that is it for today. Thanks for joining into this one. If you haven't checked out those state by state episodes, we've dropped Hawaii we've dropped Iowa. They are shorter on purpose. So go check those out. Subscribe five star review. don't accidentally click for and write a written review. If you are on Apple podcast. We're up to 70 which is so cool between Spotify and Apple. So yeah, keep spreading the word and have a good I don't know I was gonna say Have a good weekend. But if you're listening to this on a Monday, have a good week. Thanks for mixing.

Megan Berg 33:17
We will see you next week.

Jeanette Benigas 33:18
Bye everybody.

Megan Berg 33:19
Bye