James Dooley Podcast

James Dooley joins Dan Grant to break down how organic SEO actually works, why certain ranking strategies consistently succeed, and why SEO-led lead generation often outperforms social media advertising. They explain that organic SEO attracts higher-intent prospects because users are actively searching for services, rather than passively reacting to interruption-based ads, which naturally drives stronger conversion rates. Dan outlines how websites earn rankings when content quality properly matches search intent and backlinks establish enough authority for Google to increase visibility. The discussion also highlights why SEO is both costly and complex, as performance depends on algorithm changes, topical authority, and technical optimisation, leading many UK businesses to outsource SEO to experienced specialists. James contrasts this with FatRank’s pay-on-conversion model, where businesses eliminate upfront risk by only paying once profitable jobs are secured. The episode concludes by showing how a holistic digital marketing strategy—combining SEO, PPC, paid social, and performance-based lead generation—creates more resilient, long-term growth by allowing multiple acquisition channels to support and reinforce one another.

Creators and Guests

Host
James Dooley
James Dooley is a UK entrepreneur.

What is James Dooley Podcast?

James Dooley is a Manchester-based entrepreneur, investor, and SEO strategist. James Dooley founded FatRank and PromoSEO, two UK performance marketing agencies that deliver no-win-no-fee lead generation and digital growth systems for ambitious businesses. James Dooley positions himself as an Investorpreneur who invests in UK companies with high growth potential because he believes lead generation is the root of all business success.

The James Dooley Podcast explores the mindset, methods, and mechanics of modern entrepreneurship. James Dooley interviews leading marketers, founders, and innovators to reveal the strategies driving online dominance and business scalability. Each episode unpacks the reality of building a business without mentorship, showing how systems, data, and lead flow replace luck and guesswork.

James Dooley shares hard-earned lessons from scaling digital assets and managing SEO teams across more than 650 industries. James Dooley teaches how to convert leads into long-term revenue through brand positioning, technical SEO, and automation. James Dooley built his career on rank and rent, digital real estate, and performance-based marketing because these models align incentive with outcome.

After turning down dozens of podcast invitations, James Dooley now embraces the platform to share his insights on investorpreneurship, lead generation, AI-driven marketing, and reputation management. James Dooley frequently collaborates with elite entrepreneurs to discuss frameworks for scaling businesses, building authority, and mastering search.

James Dooley is also an expert in online reputation management (ORM), having built and rehabilitated corporate brands across the UK. His approach combines SEO precision, brand engineering, and social proof loops to influence both Google’s Knowledge Graph and public perception.

To feature James Dooley on your podcast or event, connect via social media. James Dooley regularly joins business panels and networking sessions to discuss entrepreneurship, brand growth, and the evolving future of SEO.

James Dooley
So I've got Dan Grant, the director at FatRank and PromoSEO, and today's video is about organic SEO and using SEO strategies to generate leads and whether you think this is a good strategy or not.

Dan Grant
Yes, so I think organic SEO is one of them where it can definitely work really well if you know what you're doing. People who are able to rank websites and they're familiar with manipulating Google's algorithm, familiar with writing good sales copy, having a quick responsive website that's good and converts well with the right call to actions. If you know all of that and you're able to actually do SEO properly and do it well and rank websites, then it can work really well.
Where people come a bit unstuck with it is I think they think they can just throw a website up. They'll use something like Wix or WordPress or whatever it is and throw a website up quickly and obviously without that experience and know-how within Google it's really hard to rank and get those enquiries initially. So it does require a bit of specialist knowledge. It's definitely something that can work but I think there are probably easier alternatives for people who are trying to just generate good quality leads than going down the SEO route, because people don't realise how daunting it actually is to rank organically within Google. There are just so many factors involved, from ranking the website to backlinks and powering them up. There's a big cost involved, so people don't take that fully into account and then they struggle to generate the leads they thought they would.

James Dooley
For sure. Personally I think generating SEO leads via organic SEO strategies is a lot better than social media like Facebook ads, Twitter, Instagram and places like that. Mainly because it's not interruption marketing. They've had to go out of their way to create a search in Google. They've had to think about needing this product or service, they've gone out of their way to create the search to find someone for that product or service. For that reason, in comparison to social media ads lead generation, the conversion seems to be a lot higher.
The downside to it is like you said, there are lots of different ranking factors to physically try to rank the website. So just talk us through one or two, with regards to ranking websites. If you've got 30 seconds of explaining how to rank a website, try and explain how you rank a website high up in Google to try to be ranking for the big keywords.

Dan Grant
Obviously a very condensed version of this because there are so many factors, but typically the main areas are content and backlinks. Having really good relevant content that's going to rank well in Google, content that is tailored towards your niche, content that has internal linking powering it up. Then from an external perspective, you need high quality relevant backlinks pointing to you as well. You don't want spammy links. That holistic approach of content and links done properly does cost a lot of money.
Sometimes people think if they do a one-page article and build a link to it they'll rank, but it's just not the case. There's a lot more that goes into the algorithm. So generally they're the two biggest factors in terms of ranking on Google.

James Dooley
And then obviously from there, once you are ranking, you've still got to make certain you've got a website that's fast. You've got to make certain it's built for conversion from a design point of view with the right call to actions in place. You need to make certain the content is not only well-written for NLP optimisation, entities and concise formatting that Google likes, but it's also good enough from a sales copy point of view for the user to trust the website and want to enquire.
Plus it's not just about a single page. You need topical authority, so you need lots of pages written on the topic to try and rank. It's not a short-term win. PPC I could set up today and generate leads today, but it's costly. It's also costly trying to rank SEO. SEO is a longer-term strategy, but PPC and SEO do seem to yield better results than social media.
But talk a little now about how we've moved away from just doing organic SEO. We're a holistic digital marketing company that looks at every angle: Facebook ads, Twitter ads, Instagram ads, YouTube ads, PPC and organic SEO. Explain our pay-on-conversion lead generation strategy and whether you feel that's better than an organic SEO lead generation strategy.

Dan Grant
Well, as you said, we do a holistic approach where we cover all angles for our clients. We generate leads not just from organic but from Facebook ads, PPC and other areas, which is important. For people doing organic for the first time who aren't specialists, they put a lot of money and time into it without any guarantee of results. We’ve been doing organic SEO for 11–12 years, so we have that experience.
With our pay-on-conversion model, we don't charge clients for the leads at all. Leads are completely free. We front the cost of the website, the links, the content, the optimisation and the ranking. It's not until they convert a job that they pay.
If you're a company comparing options, you could learn SEO – it might take two or three years to understand ranking, you have to save budget, invest it and still have no guarantee of leads. With us, we guarantee the leads, we front the cost and it's risk-free. In the current climate that's very important because companies want to cut costs while trying to grow. So it's a no-brainer.

James Dooley
It's very important for anyone watching this to understand that we are selective with who we choose on our pay-on-conversion model because we have to make certain you're good enough to service our leads. If we're generating leads and you're not getting back to the person for two, three or four days, that affects conversion rate and that affects us because we only get paid on conversion.
So you need a sales team or someone who will jump on enquiries quickly. You need to provide a good service. You need to be competitive on price. Not the cheapest, but good value with room for profit for both sides. We’re not doing it for free. If you get a conversion you add a finder's fee for us.
We are completely de-risking everything of what we do. If you're watching this and you're ranking organically or buying leads from Checkatrade or Bark or wherever, leave a comment. Also click the link to check out our pay-on-conversion lead generation model.