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There are those in the spotlight, and then there is Everybody Else.
Hosted by Wes Luttrell (Indiana-based artist manager, development coach, and founder of Wally Opus Records), Everybody Else is a podcast dedicated to the invisible people who make music happen. Featuring solo commentary and insightful interviews with artist managers, record label execs, booking agents, tour managers, lawyers, music tech founders, music producers, venue managers, and a slew of others whom we'd consider to have the most interesting jobs in the world.
Wesley Luttrell (00:00)
This is a solo episode of Everybody Else ⁓ reflecting over the last 19, the first 19 podcasts I worked together with Chad GPT and I uploaded 19 transcripts and I said, off what you know about me, what you know about my guests, and what you know about the show, I'd like you to ask me 20 to 25 questions about what I've learned, about how I got the show started, why I started the show.
And ultimately it was an exercise, not only in reflection, but also in, you know, unpacking, you know, more context for who I am and why this show exists and what's happening around it. I actually really enjoyed talking through this with myself. So I hope you enjoy listening. This is the Everybody Else Podcast. Who are the invisible people of music today and what do they do to make music happen?
Because behind every great artist, song, venue, festival, and music service, there's a tribe of people who will dedicate their lives to work that if done right, will never appear to have happened. There are those in the spotlight, and then there's everybody else.
Maybe March or April of 2025, I met someone who has become a friend of mine who is, I would call her, you know, what's the step below veteran in the music industry, but more experienced than most people. I don't know what you would call that. A senior person in the music industry, worked at big labels. and anyway, I met her through my coach, my now, my now business coach, my success coach.
And she said, I'd like to help you, but I'm not sure exactly what I could do for you, because I don't know how to build an independent record label. That's what I was really needing help with at the time for Wally Opus, the label I run. But she said, I could introduce you to some of my friends and see how the connections, what they spark for you or if it helps you grow. And so she hooked me up with three phone calls with three different people from the music industry.
that one was a manager, one was ⁓ a digital marketing executive, and the other was one of the original founders of Big Loud Records. And on these calls, what I realized was that I was spending a lot of time preparing for the call. I was doing research on the person, and I was treating it like an interview. I wasn't really treating it like a hangout call. I wasn't making it about myself at all. And in the past, when I've met people,
You know, when I was younger, I would make it so much about myself trying to get them to like, you know, know what I'm up to or what I do and try to impress them for some self gain. And with these calls, I took the complete opposite approach. made it all about them in a genuine attempt to learn something. And on one of the calls, ⁓ it was actually with Jess Kiefer, who's been a guest on the podcast. I asked her, I said, you know, I did some research on you and I found different articles and.
things, but I didn't find any interviews like this where you're unpacking your story. Why was that? And she said, Oh, don't know. Nobody asked. And then she, after the call, she said, you know, this was great. Like this felt like a podcast. And I was like, wow. So then as I had at the time, I was having these phone calls had just began a new coaching adventure being coached. Um, it became just apparent that.
doing a podcast would be a useful thing on multiple dimensions. It would introduce me to, it would be a way that I could get in the room with people who maybe I can't ordinarily get in the room with to connect and to get to know them. And they'll also give me an ability to learn from them. It would give me an ability to share sort of my flavor of inquiring with people and
unpacking stories and highlighting moments, highlighting things about that story and stitching together a narrative in real time. And ⁓ that's really where that idea came from. And then the name was just, I had several different names. Shotgun Rider was one, ⁓ Invisible People was one.
And the name was just born from the intro episode of the podcast. If you go all the way back to the beginning, before first episode, the intro podcasts is all about, ⁓ Jules Stein, who was the founder of MCA music corporation of America. ⁓ was it back in the twenties or thirties when he only got started in Chicago and he was his, his whole ethos was to be imperceptible. You know, if we are invisible and our acts get notoriety.
then we've done our job. That was his, as a talent agent, that was his motto. That's what he really lived with. He was a quiet person behind the scenes. And I liked the idea of everybody else. Like there are those in the spotlight and then there's everybody else. And that name wasn't taken. And it just kind of unfolded from there. And it seemed to resonate when I told people. So that's how the podcast, ⁓ that's how it came to be. Early on, what did you imagine this show would be?
and how has the vision evolved since episode one? It hasn't really. mean, other than I've opened up, you know, the last few episodes, I've interviewed people. I interviewed Kayden Ray, who's a bassist for the band Feel. Interviewed Ethan Douglas and Christian Schmitz, who are the founders of Baggy Jeans, which is a local music and arts event. You know, those two, they're actually artist types.
They're artist people, which I always said I'm not gonna interview artists, but they do such impactful things behind the scenes and they care about the music scene locally here in Evansville. And that's really important to me because I think we're building something here. I say we as in everybody who's a part of any music going on in Evansville. And I think we're continually connecting these dots. But I think that I imagine the show would be really what it's become.
It's like, don't, it hasn't, the vision was pretty, it was pretty clear in the beginning. It remains pretty clear at this point. I think now though, I, I'm settled in to the idea that this is going to be what I do for as long as I am interested in doing it. And as long as it's interesting to others, this is what I'm going to do. And it's going to come out every week. And I think too, like just from like a formatting standpoint, I realized that like an hour is a sweet spot.
for me as an interviewer. Sometimes it goes longer if we're just vibing or if there's a lot to unpack. But beyond that, you know, I think that keeping it concise and informational, that's how I really like my podcasts. And that's how I, you know, that's how I intend to keep, keep this one, keep this one going. How did your background with Wally Opus and Throughline Development shape your decision to create a podcast about the invisible people in music? My background in those, well,
Let's just take Wally Opus for example. Wally Opus is basically started as a, you know, recording studio that then evolved into, well, what do we do once we have the music done? Well, we better learn how to package it and release it. And then it turned into, well, we've better figure out how to get the band's gigs and then brand them and create the whole vibe around what this thing is, help them launch. And then that's really evolved into, I think we have a...
like a digital marketing emphasis at this point ⁓ with our distribution partner Symphonic and then, know, Christian and Sam who helped me with Wally Opus, they have digital marketing backgrounds. So that's just a heavy emphasis on that. And I still do a lot of recording and mixing in the studio and meet with the artist. And so I think that it gave me, you know, Wally Opus is five years old, but even before that,
I was, I've been in music for probably 10 years and somewhere or another DJing events in high school, throwing my own events in high school and then DJing throughout college, producing for others after college, pursuing my own artist path, having a manager, having a business manager, having all of that experience. It gave me a ⁓ solid base in the kind of label, like indie label, artist development, music production world. But then.
It just became a point where it's like, want to know about everything else from everybody else. I want to like, want to dig into the reality, the day to day, because, know, back to my conversations, with the music people in April, it just, it's like, I, I enjoy that so much. And to, ⁓ Tetragrammaton by Rick Rubin. That's one of my favorite podcasts. And he, one of my favorite episodes was ever, ever that he's done was with Julie Greenwald of.
Atlantic Records, she was head of Atlantic Records. I think she still is as far as I know, but they just talked so much about the reality of her journey and then her work at Atlantic and what she looks for an artist and how they decide on things and how they delegate and all these things. I wanted to just like, if I could listen to Rick Rubin just interview people from all walks of music, that would be my favorite podcast. So why not just create that? That's really what I wanted to do. That's what I wanted to set out to do.
What gap were you hoping to fill in the broader music podcast landscape when you started everybody else? ⁓ I would say that I wasn't even trying to fill a gap as much as one thing that I do remember in the beginning, you know, this is only what five months ago or something. ⁓ was that when I listened around to other music podcasts, like what I set out to do, I wanted it to not really be about me.
even though I'm doing a solo episode right now completely about myself. But I did not want it to be about, like one thing I strongly dislike on podcasts is when, and I talked about this, I think on the last podcast, or maybe it was before or after the recording, but I do not like when people say, like tell the audience, like, well tell the audience about yourself. I did that on one episode with Eric McClellan, and I immediately felt like I don't like that I just did that.
I don't like talking to the audience. like, my favorite podcasts are between, you my favorite conversations are between two people. It's them having a conversation that's recorded, but they're not talking to you, the audience. They are talking with the understanding that people are listening in, but it's not about the audience. It's not about impressing the audience. It's not about, it's not about getting into some performance state.
That's not what this is about. This is about a genuine, authentic connection between two people talking about things that are interesting and relevant between them. And unpacking that was really my motivation for the format of the show. And I think that the gap that it does fill, that I've recognized, and I don't know whether maybe there are other podcasts I just don't know about,
is because I'm doing all areas of music, I remember on, it was like episode seven or eight, I interviewed my friend Jerry, who's a tour manager, and she was talking like, she told me like, thank you so much for doing the show, because this job, this career is faceless to some degree, you know? Nobody knows us.
Nobody knows the people that are loading in the show, setting it up, making sure it goes smoothly, loading it out, getting the band to the next place, setting up again, doing it day in and day out for weeks at a time, months at a time. And so I do think that it does give, it does shine a light and give a voice to a group of people who most people don't really know about. And I would say the importance of that would be that for someone like me who grew up in a small town in Indiana and wanted to work in music and I had no support or no just insight as to where to begin.
other than move to a big city and get involved. Which that wasn't even advised to me, that was just, guess, you know, maybe that's somewhat common sense if you're somewhat aware of how things work. But, you know, even in high school, it's, you know, I was told that people like us don't do these jobs. We don't work in music. We work blue collar jobs, which is funny, because there's a lot of blue collar work in music. But now I feel on a mission to unveil and, and, and
demystify the behind the scenes of music to bring the next generation in. Because it's highly important that these jobs are full and that these industries continue to grow on all areas of music. Because touring artists are only as successful as the venues they can play and the show's going well, getting to the next place.
getting their schedules aligned, all the things that goes into a career. And that's just touring. Then you talk about marketing, you talk about distribution, the actual making of the music, even. These are all careers that, yes, in some regards they are certain. There's famous people in all those areas to some degree. But I think really demystifying that and sharing that is becoming sort of my ethos just in life.
How did you go about booking your first few guests and earning their trust before the show had any track record? My first three guests, I recorded all of them before the podcast launched. And I think I might've even recorded like two more before the podcast launched. And I think I might've had like five or six in the bank, which is just a strategy from learning about previous podcasts that I've done that I didn't follow through with. Well, it was because I was just like,
not really booking guests. was just getting whoever I could and putting it up as I went. But I didn't really have a strategy with this one. I actually had a plan and I knew that I wanted to get somebody from my local scene, which was Chris Passage. And he's the event manager for the Ford Center and in the Victory Theater, that, you two of the three big venues in my city. And then I knew I wanted to get somebody who was like a founder, like somebody in a founding role to talk about how they built something.
And so I hit up my friend Dorian from Groover. He's a co-founder of Groover, which is a music promotion platform. And then I got Lee Griffin, my client manager at Symphonic. And I'm like, think if we can get these people, this would be great. And they were all just down. They didn't even ask me. I just said, I'm starting a new show. I want to interview you. And the cool thing was too, was that I had Chris over in my place.
first episode was so much fun to record. then right like the week after I was got in my van, head down to Atlanta, catch Dorian when he's in music biz week down in Atlanta, literally drove all the way to Atlanta just to go to six hours just to go to his hotel and record this podcast, get back in the car, drove straight to Nashville, stayed the night, woke up, interviewed Lee in Nashville. And then I recorded the thing like on my iPhone and put a video up.
And it all really worked out well to make that first kind of like, to invest myself, really throw myself out into the world and go get these shows, go get these recordings. It felt like I was on a mission and that energy I think somehow translated into launching the show, which was really important for me. And at the same time, I already had guests booked out. So I was like, you know what? want to turn this somehow into a physical, I like physical advertising and I want to turn this into like a big show poster.
you know, like in a, what is it, like maybe 13 by 17, 13 by 19, whatever poster that looks like an old show poster, because that's really the aesthetic of the podcast is old in terms of the vibe. it to be like, you know, help era, help by the Beatles, that era of just vibe. That's what the music sounds like it does. That's what the art looks like it does. And so I wanted like an old school show poster and we slept and Chris was like, so, and Laura from the victory.
They were so helpful in just pasting that thing all over town and a lot of the local music businesses here, guitar center, or I mean, sorry, more music. And some of the, like restaurants and coffee shops put up the poster. And so I wanted just a bunch of stuff coming out right at once. What was your release strategy at the beginning? Cadence, marketing, rollout, and what did you learn from those early decisions? I mean, I just kind of said that, but another thing about the release strategy, or if you want to call it that, is that working with artists,
Sometimes we will make singles, well in the past especially, make a single, put it out, make a single, put it out. And it's kind of a stressful thing if you're not, if you put a lot into the music and you're not like constantly writing as an artist and constantly finishing new music. If you're not efficient in that, it's kind of tough to do the like, it's almost like living paycheck to paycheck, like boom, boom, boom, okay, now we gotta get the next one, okay, now we gotta get the next one. It's really a stress. And so I didn't want that, I wanted to bank up episodes so that once we got started,
is we just get this baby going, get the ball rolling and always be on top, always be ahead of what's coming next. Next question. When did the podcast start feeling real to you? Like it had a defined identity? I would say again, back to when, I mean, from the beginning, people were really grateful and excited and telling me that this felt great. It felt good to share this stuff. The questions were good. The research was good. It felt real from the very beginning. I mean, truly. And it-
just feels like it's rolling now. It's just happening now. And I'm not really worried about numbers. I'm not worried about listenership right now. I'm really worried about, or focused on I should say, is getting good interviews, getting good guests, having good episodes, being consistent. These are really the, those are really the pillars. And I trust that in that process, the audience will grow. And along the way, you know, even right now, ⁓
I'm planting seeds for people to come on and help with social content and help begin sort of spreading the word, the presence of the podcast online. What's been the biggest challenge in producing everybody else consistently? Time editing, promotion, guest, or something else. I would say the most challenging thing for me is securing guests, getting, I like to do in person. So getting down to wherever they're at or getting over to wherever they're at is, it's like once I get in the room, I'm ready.
I love, like I'm there, I'm going, we're going. It's like the challenging part is getting the guest. It's like sales meets, not sales, but you know, it's trying to like pitch it and get it going or get them like excited about it and make it feel important, because I believe it is. But not everybody wants to their story. Not everybody even cares to share their story or you know, maybe they're just not ready yet. So I'd say that's.
It's most challenging part. I tried video for one episode and it took me so long to edit it and just get it all right that I was like, this is too much right now. I'm not gonna be able to be consistent if I keep, if this is how I'm going to run the show. So I canned that idea as fast as I brought it forward. How have sponsorships and partnerships of Fondant Groover Victory Theater shaped the show's growth? Well, it gave me some legitimacy out of the gate, you know.
literally the first three guests became the first three sponsors. which I, looking back now, I'm like, damn, I'm so glad that happened. ⁓ And they felt like natural partnerships because they were the first three guests, first three believers. And I just pitched it like it was a normal sponsorship opportunity and got promo codes from Groover and Symphonic. And then the physical advertising all around the Victory Theater, put my
They put my logo on all their TVs inside their lobbies for shows and stuff, which is really helpful. Got it into some of the bars around the venues, which is also really helpful. so ⁓ I would say that it really gave me some structure and early legitimacy so that it's not just me. It's backed by companies. It's backed by music stuff, both locally, nationally, and internationally.
What metrics or milestones do you look to gauge success? Downloads, community impact, conversations at Sparks. Yeah, I mean, I already kind of answered this, but I would say definitely the conversations at Sparks. It's the most, it's the thing that people ask me about most now. don't, aren't asking me so much about like previous things I've done or, know, people ask me about the chugs a lot around my hometown because the chugs are killing it and doing stuff locally and have a buzz and their releases are doing well.
But to me, gauging success would be the conversations at Sparks. It's interesting, I tell people I have a podcast and they say, what's it about? Because I think right now, at this point in time, are, your podcasts are so normal, they've been around for long enough to where I think a lot of people, I would say most people, but a lot of people listen to podcasts and they have a favorite show and you begin to, it's almost like a band, you identify with that. Say I'm in a band.
A lot of people become interested, like, are you, what, tell me about the band. And so I think in this case, the podcast is a great conversation starter. I would say this too, when I see a post, like we released a show, we post it on Instagram and tag and I'll collab with the, ⁓ you know, with the guest and almost everybody's accepted the collab and been cool and promoting everything. And I'm not pushy about it. It's just, ask and most people are down.
It's seeing their followers and their friends and their people interact and hype up and like, you know, to use Ethan and Christian's words, to glaze them up online and share it and hype about it, you know, whatever. That to me is the coolest thing. It makes it kind of emotional to think about it just because I think that a lot of these people, people know they have cool jobs. People know they do, like they work hard.
They don't really know the reality of what their friend or their cousin does at this job. They just know they work with these cool people or this cool thing. So to see them come alive and comment that, I listened to the episode, it's so cool, I'm so proud of you, you've earned this, or all of that stuff to me is, ⁓ I didn't expect that necessarily or see that coming, but it's been really cool to watch. It's been a cool thing.
Across the first 19 episodes, what reoccurring themes have you noticed among your guests' Something I've noticed, and it is for everybody, but the ones who have been around ⁓ for a while, there's only a few of them who, when they were young, knew this is what they wanted to do. I can think of like, ⁓ you know, Uncle Dave, Kunkel, what, like, was like episode 10, he's a radio personality here locally.
Legendary guy he's retired now. He knew from an early age I want to do radio and he did radio his whole life and then Logan Bell's another guy who early in his life he ⁓ He's a PA technician now and touring, you know with just humongous humongous bands But early on in his life. He wanted to work in live sound went to school for he got a job now has been touring for you know nearing a decade and so
But everybody else, I'm not gonna use the word, but everybody else, one of the themes I see is that they weren't necessarily trying to get into what they got into. They just, they like found it, or they like worked their way through flipping over rocks or taking opportunities that led to this, that led to that. And then they've really found themselves in these roles. And that to me is, that goes back to the ethos of the show, you know, that anybody
Not anybody can do these jobs, everybody has, everybody has sort of the, it's not for just a select group of people. It is for a certain type of person who's willing to work their ass off and do whatever it takes and be humble and giving, I think. But that's one of the coolest things. That's one of the themes that I see is that a lot of these folks have
built something or found something, found a role that they didn't initially set out for, but that they're uniquely gifted in serving or in doing. Which guest surprised you most and why? Which guest surprised me? ⁓ man. ⁓ I think that, I will say this, I was not expecting on the last episode interviewing Ethan Douglas and Christian Schmitz to get super.
personal and vulnerable and deep with them about you know lifestyle stuff That was surprising to me. I will say that ⁓ I Think I think overall I'm surprised that people are interested in talking about Not interested in talking about themselves, but just interested in opening up about these things and like really down to have the conversation That's cool to me. They're willing to be vulnerable. They're willing to be open
I don't think it would work for somebody who doesn't want to be open or vulnerable. Just wouldn't really work. That's what the show is. You know, like said, we're not doing performances here. We're doing real shit. are some of the biggest through lines you've discovered between people working behind the scenes in music? I don't know how that question really differs from common themes, but I'll think of some through lines here. I can tell that, like I said earlier, a lot of these people, they work really hard. They have a high
work ethic, like a high level work ethic. ⁓ they live the life. They don't, ⁓ make excuses or they don't, ⁓ you know, defer responsibility. They seem to be responsible, self motivated people, even if they don't necessarily have to be founders to do that or self employed to do that. But they are, they are leaders. They are, they push things forward. They
⁓ They care a lot about the clients they work for, the things they do, the work they do, the quality of the work. I think that's a through line. I think also a through line with the people who done the show, which makes sense, I've been thinking about it right this sec, is that they want to share because they want to inspire the next group, the next generation, which to me is incredibly important. I think that's, it's actually a duty.
if you've been given opportunities to turn around and give opportunity. Has any particular insider quote from a guest shifted how you think about your own work as a label founder or coach? Hmm, any particular insight? Man, I don't know. Almost every damn episode, there's some sort of insight or understanding. I will say, ⁓ what comes to mind is talking to Jess Kiefer about major labels and how
I don't think this is insider information necessarily if you understand business or you understand sort of dynamics of organizations is that I think it maybe applies the 80-20 rule is that the A-list artist, the top artist on the label get most of the resources, the majority of the resources and then everybody else gets really what's left or nothing.
I don't know, seeing that, unknowing that that's true at the highest levels of music, it makes me think, well then who's serving the underserved at that level? Who's serving, who's really helping develop the high level, mid-level, high level artists that are signed to majors but aren't A-list? They're not the top of the top. Then who's serving them? Who's guiding them? Who's helping them? Who cares about them really?
I'm sure they have management teams, but really who is invested in them from a long-term development standpoint. And that's exciting to me as a coach. Many of your guests discuss failure, uncertainty, or reinvention. How have those conversations shaped your view of sustainability in the creative world? ⁓ Yeah, I think that that is true. I think that... ⁓
They're like, seems like the people that I talk to are always learning. They're always trying new things. They're always showing up. That's probably the biggest one is that they just continue to show up that they don't give up or else they wouldn't be on the show. And so ⁓ I think that my view of sustainability in the creative world would be to continue showing up and continue trying to figure out where to go next or what to do next or what need.
you know, what problem needs solved or what need needs filled. And that seems to be a, you know, nobody I've interviewed has had a pessimistic outlook about the future of music. For example, everybody's pretty positive, pretty optimistic about where things are headed. I think too, it's got me really excited about the decentralization of music to some extent that, you know, where, ⁓
People are being let go or leaving majors to join independent places, independent companies. And the same with just, you know, the independent music scene across the world being more empowered by the tools of the internet and the platforms that they can access, that anybody can access. How has hosting everybody else influenced the way you approach and develop artists through ThruLine? ThruLine is basically a coaching consulting company that I started around the same time as the podcast.
How has everybody else influenced that? It's given me more, it's giving me more context or more just like data and more insight into the whole picture of an artist's career instead of the sort of narrow field of music production and distribution. It's giving me, you know, I think as a coach, it's good to have a general knowledge of everything in music.
I think having context for what touring requires or like what a big show costs to put on. If you're a younger artist, just have to, you know, like knowing that if I want to tour and play arenas one day, I'm going to have to either work with, you know, I'm going to have to work with a big company or a major structure. You're going to grow into it most likely, but still it's like, you know, being able to tell an artist ⁓ or even on a small indie.
you know, on an independent level, helping an artist understand that, you know, what, well, what is a booking? If you want to get signed to a booking agent, what's a booking agent looking for? What do they, what would make it more attractive to you than other than just they like your music? Cause they like a lot of people's music, but then there has to be a viable business side of it. The numbers have to make sense as well. Well, how can you track your progress both on the music side, on the, you know, the releasing side, and then on your show side to where you could
work your way into a partnership with a booking company or booking agent by being very diligent and running your company or running your project like a little business. That's not to say that you're doing things for business sake. I just mean after the arts finished and after you've done that work, how are you tracking things and sharing things to the people that are interested in you? And I think having a more general knowledge of other areas of music has really opened my eyes to
You know, the dream that a lot of artists have of touring or playing shows or getting their music on radio even still sort of exists for some artists. The idea of that is exciting. Well, what the hell are they looking for? What do they need? You know? So it's really given me context through which to guide artists. In what ways has the podcast reinforced your challenge, the North Star philosophy you apply to your coaching clients?
The North Star philosophy would be that in order to set out and do something meaningful over a long period of time, you need to know where you're aiming. You need to know where you want to land. You have to be guided by some greater, you know, ⁓ some greater aim that pulls you through the day to day. The hard things keeps you focused. I would say it just continually reinforces it. It continually reinforces it.
I mean, think sometimes, yeah, some people don't know what they want and they find themselves in these incredible positions. But I think that the majority of people, know what they want. Or at least they know that that's what's required at the place that they work, for example, or with the projects they work on. There's no identity, there's no strong, you know, there's no strong target. What the hell is, what's the point of it all? What are we doing here?
What have you learned about your own interviewing style? What do you do naturally well? And what have you refined over time? I say the word like a lot, which drives me absolutely nuts. I don't think I've actually said it that much on this recording, but I just want to slide myself through the microphone or through the headphones when I hear myself say like, like, like. I think I say it when I'm just like a little bit nervous or a little bit in the moment. So, but I think naturally what I've been told
And what I think is true is that once the podcast starts, I am fully present with the person as much as I can be. But even in that, I can still help steer the conversation and keep it on a narrative arc. And that to me just comes from listening to thousands and thousands of hours of podcasts over the last 10 to 15 years. I started listening to Joe Rogan when I was in college.
Then I listened to like Tim Ferriss, How I Built This by Guy Raz, Tetragrammaton Now, a bunch of random stuff here and there over the years. But I've listened to a lot of podcasts. And so I think that it's trained me to be able to go into the space of podcasting, into the space of dialogue and ⁓ navigate things to where what you get on the other side is some sort of...
thing, some sort of narrative, some sort of like natural, authentic conversation that is hopefully inspiring and useful to somebody. How do you balance being both a participant and an observer of the music ecosystem, the interviewer and the entrepreneur? I think they're complimentary, truly. I think that ⁓ it's actually shown me a lot of what I thought that I was good at or thought that I did well is like, actually there's people that are way better.
And so maybe my role is different, you know? ⁓ I think it's helped me more clearly define what I'm good at in music and what I'm good at in artist development, what I'm good at in just like, or not even good at, but just what I would be most useful doing with my life in music. ⁓ I think that the interviews directly shape my understanding of my place in music by understanding what others do and where they're at. Looking back, how has this project personally changed you?
as a thinker, creative and leader. ⁓ The podcast is the most, one of the most, I don't know if it's the most, it's one of the most important projects I've ever started just because of who I've met and how most of the people I've interviewed have become friends or don't know friends, but connections. They've become something that isn't then led to more conversations or more, it's just led to additional things.
even opportunities. so I think that, and then personally, I guess that would be professionally, but like personally, it's giving me a space to do what I think is my gift, which would be inquiring with people and helping distill big ideas or big feelings or highlight what's good and what's, you know, what's not even. ⁓
getting into that space of dialogue that is where I'm comfortable, that is where I come alive. And I think for others to enter that space and it's really the focus is directed towards them, but not in a judgmental way, but in very much a, let's unpack this type of way. I think that ⁓ that's useful, that's good. And so I think for me, it's just given me lot of confidence and given me a lot of perspective that
is incredibly useful as I continue to grow my own career in music and helps me really also better understand that my path, while I thought it was set, isn't set and that it's continually evolving and I'm continually evolving and I'm excited about that. I love that. If everybody else were to grow into a larger platform, what would that look like? Live tapings, video network partnerships, or something else?
I, yeah, I want to do live shows. That's an ambition of mine with this is to, ⁓ especially here in Evansville is to bring up, you know, bring up somebody from Nashville or bring somebody down from Indy or bring somebody from Bloomington from secretly or wherever, and have a live show here in Evansville in an intimate space. That's, that seems really exciting. And then afterwards have a little event where people can hang out and meet the guest or just.
you know, bring people, bring fans of the podcast together and bring them in one space. I love events. love putting those things on when it makes sense. And so doing that around the podcast would be a real ambition. I also really want to do some live, not every episode, but not even in the future, but I do want to do some really cool live, not live, but a video recordings with guests in really cool spaces.
I don't even want to share the idea because I want to keep that to myself. taking a guest into a really cool spot and having an interview really well filmed, really well executed, that's an ambition of mine. Are there dream guests you still hope to have on the show? Absolutely. ⁓ I have behind me, I'm in my studio, but directly behind me is a wall where I have a desk. And that's where I sit every morning and journal and plan out my day and think about what happened yesterday.
And on the, in front of me is a whole list of sticky notes of guests that are either in like the warm, like, know, the warm nurture stage where I'm having conversations, we don't have a date yet. There's like the next phase of people who I am, once I get these, I'm, you know, I'm kind of thinking, okay, how can I get them? And then there's the sort of the dream list.
that includes people that I've looked up to for a long time or that I know would be challenging to get in my current state. And so absolutely. And as I do it more, the more I realize like, holy shit, there's a lot of people I want to interview. I also want to interview more people who aren't bigger guests. I also, was just talking to someone, like, you know, I'd like to interview some like diehard fans of people. you know, sometimes like Caden Ray was on here from the band Feel talking about how
some of their fans go to every they've been to like 50 feel shows feels not a huge band and there's just somebody who's been to 50 shows and that investment that sort of super fandom is interesting to me because they're actually a crucial part of the you know the overall music industry the overall ecosystem ⁓ they're spending the most on artists they're spending the most on tickets merch all those things
So that is really interesting to me. How do you want listeners to feel after hearing an episode? What do you want them to take away that they can't get anywhere else? I want listeners to, after the show, feel that the people working in music at any level are just people who have jobs or who have roles. And I want to demystify
what I was told when I was younger is that people like us don't work in this industry is I want to demystify that and say that actually it's made up of a bunch of people just like us. It is just, it's us up there. It's humans doing jobs and you can do it too. If it's even for you, maybe you don't even wanna do it. Maybe you think you wanna do it you're like, actually I don't wanna fucking do that. ⁓
just really unpacking the reality, the day to day. And what's funny is I thought this early on was that I want to demystify the roles and I want to totally break down what you think these jobs are and in return, or know, like on the other side of that, I want to completely build up an appreciation for the people who work behind the scenes in music. I think that it's...
I think that sometimes you see glimpses of it, like maybe if you go to a big show at an arena or at a stadium, as soon as show's over, you see a bunch of people running around the stage. I want you to stop and think about, yeah, that's the PA tech. That might be the tour manager. They look like they're barking orders. That might be the head of the union. He's over there at point and he's got a hard hat on. I love behind the scenes of everything, honestly. I like behind the scenes in general. And so I think that if...
If people can walk away with an appreciation or an understanding that there are people doing those roles, that would be really cool. What do you think episode 40's current state reflection might sound like if you keep this pace of growth and curiosity? Probably similar. It might be super boring because I might say the same shit. Hopefully. I don't even know what to hope, but you know, I hope to just continually get great guests who
who I, like I said, it's really more about the conversation than in the connection, rather than their certain position or their notoriety or who they work with. ⁓ Because it's really just about what their experience is and what their journey has been in extracting the real, the realness of it, the universal thing of it, the human thing in it. That's what we're after here, the spirit of it, you know?
And so I'd say it'll probably feel about the same, just with some new information, maybe a greater understanding. How does everybody else fit into your long-term mission across Wally Opus and ThruLine? Is it a platform, a documentation, or part of your broader calling? I'd say it's all of those. I don't if it's a platform, but it's definitely documentation. I do think that. I do think about like in the future.
If people want to know about how things worked back in 2025 or before they could tune into this and learn about what it was like. That's what I love about certain music podcasts is I can tune in and really understand how the people do their work, which helps me figure out how to do my work. But as part of the broader calling, do think that inspiring others and, you know, empowering and encouraging.
this word encouraging, you know, to take a step forward in your own life takes courage. It takes courage to walk forward and to try new things or to put yourself out there. Encouraging people by sharing stories of others who've done that. I think that if even one person, that sounds so corny, but it's like one person per episode. I don't know, one person, you know, it's going to grow. It's going to, you know, compound over time, but
No different than when I listen to how I built this with Guy Raz, founding stories, you know, from entrepreneurs and people who built great, you know, great things from all over the place, like any industry. When I hear stories like that, and I hear what the person went through, it gives me so much courage to take a step forward in my own life, in my own adventure. It gives me the understanding that if I fail, well, that doesn't mean the end. It's not fatal. Failure is not fatal as my kids mush.
you know, packets, let's say, and success is not final. And so I think that it's, it's just this sort of, it's another outlet to connect. It's another outlet to inspire. And so, I think ultimately if it's into my overall life calling, ⁓ by connecting and sharing. Closing cue. Reflect on the growth of the show. Express gratitude to listener. Preview what's next.
See, don't think Chad's EBT wanted me, that wasn't a question. several people have told me, well, we've already crossed the valley of dead podcasts. think if you pass episode 10, you've lasted longer. It's almost like this world of business. you start a restaurant, most of them fail in six months or a year, and definitely gonna be down in three, most likely definitely gonna be down in five. If you survive that, you got a chance.
And to me, I think that I'm just learning now how to implement systems around reaching new clients or guests, getting new guests on the show. Like I said earlier, bringing on somebody to help with the social media content. ⁓ It's a lot to try to do it all on top of the other work that I do. So really just staying focused on one thing at a time and trusting that the thing will grow, the thing will compound with every, was, know, after my podcast last week with, ⁓
or whenever I recorded with Christian and Ethan from Baggy Jeans, I went upstairs on myself and I sat on my bed and I wanted my wife and my kids weren't home yet. And I closed my eyes and I could just see this just like sort of this path, this trajectory and on it were these big guests. But also on it was a bunch of other people, a bunch of just random people from all over music. And it's like, I'm going to talk to all those people. And
That to me is a really exciting vision of where this thing's headed. And if it gets huge, great. If it doesn't get huge, it doesn't matter. I really don't give a shit. I'm having a great time. I'm finding value in it. I think those who listen find value. I think that the guests find value. And so I intend to just continue showing up the way that I am and continue to learn and hone this in over time.
and just watching and witnessing all the other things that happen along with it.
Hey, thank you for listening to the show this week. Visit everybodyelsepodcast.com to learn more about this show, including a list of past guests and previous episodes. You can find me on Instagram at Wes Luttrell, where I post my own work, including activities related to this show. And you can also find the show on Instagram at everybody else podcast. This show is self-produced and hosted by me, Wes Luttrell, with artwork by Ethan Douglas and music by Jim Neuer.
grateful that you spent a little time this week listening to our podcast and learning more about the invisible people out dedicating their lives to making music happen. I'll be back again soon.
Everybody else is a production of the Midwest Music Corp.