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Is Phase I flight training a weeding out process? What does it take to pass? What's it like to fly the G120A Grob? How is the course run? Former Phase I Grob Flight Commander, Dawn Macauley, tells us all this and more this week on The Pilot Project Podcast. Dawn knows what it takes to be successful, take responsibility for your success and to make sure you stay balanced and healthy while you strive for it.
The Pilot Project Podcast is an aviation podcast that aims to help new pilots learn what it takes to succeed in the world of flight, to help people in the flight training system learn what they may want to fly, and to give Canadians and the world a peek into life on the flight deck in the RCAF. We want to help pilots succeed and thrive! We interview real RCAF pilots for their exciting stories as well as the lessons they've learned along the way. We'll learn their tips to develop resilience and the tools it takes to make it in flight training.
Bryan: Alright, we're ready for departure here on The Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF. I'm your host, Bryan Morrison. With me today for our first official episode is Dawn Macauley. I had the good fortune to work with Dawn at 3CFFTS in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba.
Dawn graduated from Basic Helicopter School in November 2009 and was awarded the Gos Goulding Award for Top Candidate. She was also voted by her peers and instructors as the winner of the Top Hat award. After 3CFFTS she was posted to 413 Squadron in Greenwood, Nova Scotia, where she flew the CH149 Cormorant. She conducted over 60 search and rescue missions in six years. In 2016, she was posted to 3CFFTS where she instructed on the Bell 206. During her time at 3CFFTS, she was the flight safety Officer, achieved A -category instructor rating, and then moved to the Grob Flight Commander position. She maintained an instructor category on the Bell 206 and conducted quality assurance as a Grob Aircraft commander. She was posted in 2021 to the Joint Rescue Coordination Center, or JRCC in Halifax. So let's jump right into it.
Your family is pretty well known in the Air Force community. Your dad is a SAR tech and your uncle is a pilot. And both were involved in the famous rescue of these survivors of Boxtop 22, which can be read about in the book Death and Deliverance. Is that what inspired you to fly in the Air Force?
Dawn: I suppose the Air Force has always been a part of my life, so, in short, I would say yes. It wasn't the first thing that I wanted to do coming out of high school or even university, but it was a culture that I was really bred into. And so it was a, uh, bit of a logical destiny, I suppose, for me to end up in the Air Force, something that suits me quite well.
Bryan: What was the first step for you then? How did that begin in terms of flying and getting into aviation itself?
Dawn: Getting into aviation, going to air shows and being part of the community, my dad worked for the SAR community, but I didn't really get into the idea of joining the Air Force until after I was done university. And I played hockey for a few years after university and realized there's no, uh, professional women's hockey league that you can make a living off of. And I wanted to continue playing hockey, and the military was a really logical choice for me, and joining to be a pilot was what I tried to do. So I just went in and my dad encouraged me, he's like, you know, just try to go in and see if you can be a pilot. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to go be a pilot. And, uh, went through all the testing and my aptitude was suitable for becoming a pilot. And lo and behold, it was, uh, it was a successful mission and, uh, it's really suitable for me.
Bryan: So there wasn't any air cadets or did you go for flights in small aircraft with your uncle?
Dawn: I had no previous flying experience joining the Air Force or the military. Yeah, I went right from playing hockey to flying airplanes.
Bryan: I actually love it when I get a chance to talk to people who lots of us have been doing this or some form of this since we were teenagers. It's always great to talk to somebody who just sort of jumped in and made it happen, and especially someone such as yourself who's been quite successful. It's really cool to see that people can walk into this job and basically, if you bring the right skills and attitude that you can make it work. I think that's really cool.
Dawn: I think our training system is really designed to go from the ground up, uh, so to speak. The training system is completely designed to teach people right from the very basics. You don't need flying experience to be successful in this program and that's what makes it so great.
Bryan: I think you're right. I think that's a sign of a really strong training system. And I had previous flight experience, a lot of my friends did, but a lot of my friends didn't. And honestly, there's no discernible pattern that emerges from that as far as I can see. Anecdotally, there's no tendency for people with previous experience to do way better or vice versa, which I think really speaks highly of the courses that we put our guys through.
Dawn: Yeah, the military flying program is really about learning procedures and linking procedures together. So if you can sit there and learn procedures and learn checklists and learn muscle memory, that's all you need. Like you said, the skills and attitude and the Air Force fills in the rest.
Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. So I know you did your phase two at Moose Jaw, right?
Dawn: I did, yeah.
Bryan: Yeah. I like to establish that because there are three phases of flight training and phase one is done on the Grob here in 3CFFTS in Portage la Prairie, Query. Phase two can be done either on the Grob or in Moose Jaw on the Harvard II, and then phase three is when you start to specialize into your fast yet multi engine or helicopter training. So I always like to find out, did you do the Grob for phase two or the Harvard? Because they are different experiences. So, that being said, how did you find your flight training experience in the Forces? Did you have any big hiccups?
Dawn: Um, I really enjoyed flight training. Um, I was fortunate enough to be young, pretty much a couple years out of university. I didn't have any family or significant other, so I was in the right place at the right time. I had a great time. I made tons of friends and learnt so much, and I was able to continue to stay fit, and that's what it was all about. I played music while we were in Moose Jaw. We had a band and played at the mess, that sort of stuff. It was just university on steroids.
Bryan: For some people, flight training is a really grueling, high stress experience. And I mean, it is stressful for everyone to an extent, but I always love to hear about people thriving on those courses and, uh, it being kind of the time of your life, because it really should be. It's some incredible flying and it's some great pace of flying where you're flying, like, all the time. So if you can get over the stress of it, it should be an amazing time.
Dawn: I mean, everybody has hiccups, everybody fails a flight now and again, and that's part of the learning process, right? It's a very steep learning curve and it's designed for you to hit walls at some point because it's about being efficient and there's always a point in every course, in every curriculum that's designed for people to struggle a little bit. And for me, where I learned my biggest lesson was at the end of my helicopter training, I was doing my final clearhood test on the Outlaw. So the two engine helicopter.
Bryan: Just for the listeners, clearhood is flying visually. It's flying with reference to the ground and not using your instruments.
Dawn: Yeah. So there was a third pilot in the back of the helicopter and it was the first time I had an observer besides my instructor pilot in an aircraft. And it made me a little bit extra nervous. Like, I, uh, had a little bit of trouble focusing and getting into my groove and it just was not a very, very strong flight. And for me, the big lesson was, like, I really wanted to go search and rescue. And, you know, this was before I got my wings, so I hadn't really realized at that point that if I want to go search and rescue. I have to perform with a whole bunch of other people in the back, and it can't be something that holds me back. Performancewise. So I failed that flight, but it also helped me realize it doesn't matter if there's somebody else in the back, I have to be able to perform when there are other people in the back. And that was a great lesson for me to learn and a great timing, because I wanted to have a lesson like that before I got my wings so that I wasn't nervous when I got on the Cormorant and there was three other guys or four other guys or five other guys in the backseat. So that was my big hiccup and it was a good experience and that's the thing about having struggles on course, is learning from it and failing forward, failing and realizing, like, oh, uh, this is a really important lesson for me to learn to carry on and be effective.
Bryan: Yeah. And it's so important and difficult to focus on that aspect of making mistakes when you're on a course and not getting hyper focused on the worst case scenario of making mistakes and how many hours you have left before you get a review or whatever.
Dawn: Yeah. It's really just about making sure you're prepared every day. It's okay to think about the consequences because you don't want to go into a flight nonchalant, but at the same time, you want to go in with confidence, knowing that you've been built up to this point to be able to perform.
Bryan: That's kind of what you learned there. Right. Like, if you sit there and think about, what are the people in the back thinking? What if I make a mistake? That's all you're going to think about. And that's brutal. Most of us are going to end up flying on aircraft with crew of some sort who aren't pilots. And, uh, you're just going to have to suck it up and yeah, it is your job to be kind of in that spot where no one's doing anything when you're landing the plane, so everyone's going to know what you're doing and how you do, but you're going to have to get over that.
Dawn: For me in the SAR community, it is definitely a point of pride. You want to perform well. Those guys in the back are putting themselves on the hook and they have to trust you. So their approval is absolutely important, but in the end, it just comes down to performing.
Bryan: So you went through your flight training, you did your operational tour, and then years after flying on the Grob back as the Grove Flight Commander, was that something that you wanted?
Dawn: It was something that was presented to me as an opportunity. I was surprised at the time, but I was very happy that they offered that position to me. I had finished my A-category upgrade, so I was a category instructor it's the top level instructor that we have, and I assumed that I was going to move into Standards and just carry on with that kind of job, you know, doing testing and teaching the flight instructor course. But then I was presented with this opportunity to jump into the flight commander position, to play a role that would put me in a position to influence the next generation of pilots, to motivate them. And I really thought that that was a great opportunity. Plus, they said I could get qualified of the Grob and it had been more than ten years since I had flown a fixed wing aircraft, so it seemed like a fun change. It really was. So I took it and I have no regrets about that, that's for sure.
Bryan: The Cormorant has got to be one of the coolest aircraft we have in the Air Force. After flying some of those operational aircraft and ten years on helicopters or more, was it still exciting to fly the Grob after all that time?
Dawn: It really was. It's a fun little sporty aircraft, and it's amazing that our pilots, that they learn on that, that's the first aircraft. It's really fun. It's aerobatic it's maneuverable, it's comfortable. It's got, like, a really high tone engine. So that was a big change from going from helicopters, where a very low wop wop wop and then you go to this little plane that's, like, 'eeeeeeeeeeee' • • • • • • • • • • that was probably the thing that threw me off the most. The Grob is a fun aircraft to fly, and landing an airplane is different than landing a helicopter. So that was fun. Learning how to land again.
Bryan: I bet. Something that people may not know that's kind of interesting is phase One is not taught by military instructors. Phase One is taught almost entirely by contracted civilian instructors that we call Blue Suitors, because their flight suits are blue. So what then is the job of the Grob flight commander?
Dawn: So, as a Grob flight commander, I was essentially the military liaison between the students and the military administrative side of things. Like you said, all instruction is completed by the civilian Blue Suitors. And these civilian instructors are extremely talented pilots, along with the fact that we conduct quality assurance checks on these pilots to make sure they're consistently using the same types of, uh, flying teaching techniques as the military side on later phases. And on Phase one, uh, my job as the flight commander sometimes is separated from the students dealing with their day to day instructor because of the fact that that instructor is not military. So if there is a military concern or a family concern or those types of things, that's where I would come into play.
Bryan: So you're a combination of essentially quality assurance and course director.
Dawn: Yeah, exactly. That's what the commander does.
Bryan: Awesome. That sounds pretty great, actually. There's a lot of, uh, interesting opportunities there to connect with the students.
Dawn: Connecting with the students was definitely my favorite part of being the flight commander, to be able to hear their stories and help them with their problems. Everybody either needs to vent or they have lots of questions, or they just want to talk about what they want to do next, what stream they want to go, and what areas of the country they want to live in. And so having the opportunity to speak with every single student and just kind of connect on a personal level was really important to me. I wasn't there, as someone who was a authority figure, more of like, a guiding mentor,
Bryan: Can you give us a brief outline of the Phase One course?
Dawn: Yeah, so the Phase One course starts with a two day preparation course, I'll call it, which is Performance Readiness training. It's a course that is run by road to mental readiness, and it's directed specifically at pilots in ways to deal with the stresses of, uh, pilot training. It talks about strategies for preparation, for recovery. It talks about selftalk and breathing techniques, and visualization and goalsetting techniques, a strategy to help you deal with the amount of information and the physical and mental and emotional stresses that you're going to deal with in flight training. So that's a two day course. After that, you do about two weeks of ground school, learning about the aircraft, what all the switches do, what to do in emergencies. You learn about weather and flying rules and orders, and then you have a test. At the end of all that, it's about 100 question test. And then you start flying. First, you go into simulators, where you get to switch some switches and practice starting the aircraft. And, uh, after about three cockpit trainers and a SIM, you get into the aircraft and then you start flying. The first flight, you might not touch the controls until you're up in the air, but within a few flights, you're going to be taken off, and within a few more flights, you're going to be landing. About halfway through the course, you do an emergency handling test, and it's an opportunity to demonstrate your decision-making skills and your knowledge of the aircraft. And about, uh, five flights later, you're doing your final test. And then that's it.
Bryan: Wow, that's quick. How long does the course ideally take to run through?
Dawn: I want to say that it's like six to eight weeks, typically.
Bryan: Wow.
Dawn: But that is depending on whether the time of year you go, how many students are on your course, and how many instructors are available, that sort of stuff. So there are variables. If you have a course end date, you can pretty much guarantee you're not going to finish on, um, that course end date. You might finish before, you might finish after. But it's an estimate because everybody is going through it at a slightly different pace. If you have a couple of hiccups and you fail a couple of flights, it happens. So you might be a little bit delayed, but that gives you a good idea of how long it's going to take and what to expect.
Bryan: Right on. What parts of phase one do students tend to find the most challenging?
Dawn: While I was there as a flight commander, one of the things that I noticed was the emergency handling test. It seemed to me that students were failing it a little bit more than they had in the past, or that statistics had shown that maybe that was something that students had struggled with a bit.
Bryan: Why do you think that was?
Dawn: I think it's the first time that students really ever go through the whole process. I mean, it's not the first time they do a pretest, and every time they're in the sim they work on emergencies, but I think it's the level of pressure on themselves. It's kind of like the first knowledge and flying test that you really conduct. And the other I guess theory that I had was there's a lot of decisions that need to be made in that flight test. You have to analyze the problem, you have to make a decision of how you're going to handle that problem, and then you have to come to a conclusion that it's going to get you on the ground safely. And it does take a lot of decision-making and you kind of have to get your mind into a decision-making tree. And I think there's a part of our society that we're just not making as many decisions as we used to. We have a lot of algorithms to make those decisions for us, so we might not be as practiced at decision making as maybe we used to be.
Bryan: That makes sense. So along the same thread, aside from hands and feet, which is pilot talk for flying skills, what other attributes do students need to show to be successful in phase one?
Dawn: I think initiative and self-discipline are probably up there. It takes a lot of intrinsic motivation to be successful in flying training. I've seen students be unsuccessful, but they're expecting to be spoon fed the information, not necessarily going out and getting the information, learning the orders. They kind of might wait a little bit to see, oh, do I really need to know this? Yeah, you do need to know this. You need to know all of this. So learning it and by taking that initiative and holding yourself accountable for learning the stuff that people are telling you to learn, then you're going to see success. That's what makes a successful pilot.
Bryan: I think a lot of people are surprised. You know, it's going to be hard work, but the volume of work and the volume of knowledge that you need to absorb is immense. And I think for some people that's a bit of a shock at first.
Dawn: It absolutely is. I've had students who end up being successful but come into the office and say, man, I didn't think it was going to be this hard. And every time at the beginning we say, hey, this is going to be the hardest course of your life. It's hard when you don't necessarily have something to compare it to and then you realize, oh, okay, like, I really do need to take initiative. And I really do need to hold myself accountable, to do all my reading and to learn my emergency handling, my red pages, and to really take the time to visualize procedures and maneuvers. That's all very important in the process, uh, of learning how to fly.
Bryan: I think sometimes we hear those things like, this is going to be the hardest course, or another classic one is relationships take work and those kinds of things. You hear them, and you're like, yeah, I agree totally. And then when you actually realize, like, oh, that means I have to do work, when you experience it, it hits a little differently than when you just hear it.
Dawn: I think the type of people that come into flying training have to recognize the mental discomfort that they're going to be going through in order to expand their knowledge. And it's really about kind of choosing the discomfort that you want in order to make yourself a better person. And in the pilot trade, it has to do with immense amounts of learning.
Bryan: When you look at it that way, it's a pretty easy choice.
Dawn: Yes, I totally agree.
Bryan: So I've always heard that Phase one is a weeding out process. Do you think that's true?
Dawn: I think it used to be a lot more true. So I went through in 2007, I would argue that it was still looked at a little bit more as a weeding out process. There was still about a quarter of students who didn't make it through. But the way that the RCAF has changed, the attitude towards Phase One has really helped with retention. It's also helped with success. And if you are there and you bring your attitude and your skills and you show initiative and you work really hard, you're probably going to make it through. Most people make it through. I don't know the exact percentage, what the pass rate is, but it's got to be at least 90%. It's very high.
Bryan: But that's people who make it to phase one, right? Because I know the percentage of people who apply to people who get winged is quite low.
Dawn: Yes, that is a very important distinction. If you go into the recruiting center and say, I want to be a pilot, the percentage of people who apply to be a pilot at that point who actually make it to phase one is, uh I've heard one in 100. I don't know if that's true.
Bryan: Yeah, I've always heard one in 100 as well.
Dawn: The course is designed to pass. It's designed to teach you how to fly and for you to be successful. It's not designed to cut people. And the mentality of that has changed over the years, and I think it's a very effective training system.
Bryan: I think that's a very important message to get out. I think the course still might have that reputation. This is where they separate the wheat from the chaff. And like you said, that may be true to a certain extent, but the goal is not to eliminate as many people as possible. The goal is for people to succeed, and that's what everyone there wants to happen. For those students, you mentioned that it was important to have some other qualities besides hands and feet. What are some qualities or traits that you see commonly hold students back on phase one?
Dawn: On phase one, particularly what I experienced as the flight commander the people who had to deal with problems at home and had to go home for family stuff. It takes a lot away from their focus on course. So it can be a huge challenge for people who have who have a family. This is their second career, and they're moving into the pilot trade, and they already had a life before. Yes.
Bryan: That's very challenging.
Dawn: It is definitely the most challenging as far as I saw, because there's just so much more on your plate. You have so many more distractions. It is so much more difficult to stay focused on the task at hand. When you're worried about your kid in the hospital or you're worried about your wife, maybe she's sad or she's sick. There's a multitude of problems that can come about when you have that time away from your family and you have to worry about them. I definitely would never discourage a student from stopping course and going home, because that's what needs to happen when those situations arise and then coming back, starting fresh when their minds are ready and focused.
Bryan: And that actually reminds me, you had mentioned before when we were chatting about the need to kind of realign expectations with your family while you're training.
Dawn: Yes, that's an important point. That was one of the messages that I would give students right at the beginning. It was part of my flight commander briefing, like, before they'd start flying, before they'd even start ground school, talking to your spouse, talking to your family about expectations. There's a million things that could happen that is going to change the trajectory of your career. Sometimes people don't realize that there's a lot of moving involved, and that's a really important part to communicate. Like, hey, just so you know, if I join this trade, this is what it's going to look like for the next three to five years. And I know there is a lot of uncertainty, but that's part of aligning expectations. Please expect uncertainty, because that is the only constant in this trade. You never really know where you're going to end up, and sometimes you don't know where you're going to end up that night. You know, search and rescue is very much like that. You could end up in Iqaluit for three or four days in the drop of a dime. And so those kinds of lines of communication are so, so important. Just so everyone's on the same page, because the military is hard on relationships, and that's one of the reasons, because there is so much uncertainty.
Bryan: This is not a skill that's limited to flight training. This is a skill that you will need for your whole career if you're going to maintain healthy relationships and make your family feel informed, like they have some semblance of, I guess, predictability makes such a difference for your home life and the stress that may or may not be there.
Dawn: We have so many resources that can help with this. And in particular, we have counselors that can help with relationships that are specifically military relationships.
Bryan: Yeah, I'll do a quick plug for that, actually. So for any, uh, canadian forces member listening to this CFMAP is the CF member assistance program. It's basically a free access to ten sessions of counseling. It's an anonymous service. Your chain of command does not find out that you've used it. The number is 1-800-268-7708 and I encourage you, if you are listening to this and you are in the Forces, to pause. Put that in your phone. I've had that in my phone since my days in Moose Jaw. And, um, you never know when down the road you may want to use that. There's a whole bunch of approved service providers in your area that they will hook you up with. We have great access as Forces members. If you need it, please use it. I think it's something that's important that we normalize. We talk about the different ways that we need to remain ready, and we'll talk a little more about that. But as a professional, you owe it to yourself, when you notice something like that, to take care of it. I think that was a great sidebar. We talked about attributes that students should bring to the course. Uh, we've talked about things that tend to hold students back. Let's say I'm an officer cadet who reports in a month for phase one. Is there anything I should do to prepare, or should I just be embracing my last month of relatively low stress for a while?
Dawn: I mean, it really depends on the person. If you can get access to things and you want to read some stuff, the Manual of Flying Training for the Globe can help. Don't get checklists and start trying to learn red pages. That's a waste of time and energy. When you start switching switches and knowing where things are, and you develop a flow to your hands moving in a certain pattern, that's what red pages and emergency responses are about. Uh, so red pages before flying training. No, don't do it. It's a waste of your time and energy. Find something else to do.
Bryan: Yeah, I agree. Red pages for those who don't know are your emergency pages. Eventually, you will have to have them memorized, but before the course is not the time.
Dawn: And start getting the mental side of your brain ready for the onslaught of information. So practicing mindfulness and getting out and getting some exercise, it's really about, um, staying healthy and going into flying training with a healthy body and mind. Those are the most important things that you can bring to the table.
Bryan: Do you have something that you would say is, like, your coolest memory from your flying career?
Dawn: I've been really fortunate in the helicopter department because helicopters, it's all about the journey, not the destination. So you get to fly low and slow all the way across the country. That's a pretty fantastic experience. But I would have to say that probably my most memorable experience flying was with my uncle Marv. We were doing a night trip at the very end of my phase two. So just to, uh, make sure that everyone knows there's no nepotism involved, uncle marv did not have anything to do with my course. The whole time I was in this job, all the tests were done. I had one flight left. The night flying at that time was really just an introductory to night flying. So I said, hey, can I go with my uncle Marv? And the flight agreed that that was not going to affect anything.
Bryan: Yeah, the night flight is essentially exposure training, right? Like, it's your chance to be shown what it feels like to be out there. There is no real night portion at Moose Jaw. It's just a chance to go up and say, hey, here's what it's like to fly at night. So your course, in essence, was already complete.
Dawn: Exactly. Marv and I were flying, and, uh, we had just turned crosswind, and it's dark, right? It's night time, and the cockpit just lights up in this bright green, like, WOW! And he's like, I have control. What the hell is that? I'm like, I don't know. There's the same kind of green that the radio, uh, management unit, the RMU. It was like, that kind of green. So I thought maybe my RMU had exploded, but no, it's fine. And Marv calls the tower. He's like, did you guys see that? And they're like, yeah, the whole sky lit up. And we're like, oh, okay. So it wasn't anything in the cockpit. The whole sky turned green, and so whatever. Marv and I finished our flight, and the next morning, it was on the news that, uh, there was a big meteorite that had, like, hit a, uh, northern saskatchewan, and it lit up the entire sky. So there was a meteor flying not too close to us, but relatively close, and while we were flying. So that was really one of the coolest memories of training, for sure.
Bryan: What would you say was your best day on any aircraft?
Dawn: Flying anytime was pretty fun and rewarding. It always comes back to me that the most rewarding part of my job was when the first students that I instructed got their wings. That was probably one of the greatest moments of pride as an instructor. To recognize those guys went from nothing to being very skilled helicopter pilots. And that was a great feeling when they graduated.
Bryan: That's awesome. What was your hardest day on an aircraft?
Dawn: I had a mission towards the end of my time on the Cormorant, where four kids, I guess they were all below, uh, 18 years old, maybe 17, 15, 13 and 11, something like that. They had gotten into a car accident on an island, Pictou Island. And so there was no other emergency response vehicles except for, like, a volunteer fire department. And these kids got ejected from the vehicle. They were not in good shape. And we went there with the Cormorant and picked them up and brought them to the hospital. I don't know what happened with all these kids. I know that they all survived because there was no bad news after. But it was very hard initially because I was like a new parent at the time. And I hear this mother, one of the mothers had gotten on board, and I could hear her in the back screaming. And it was very intense. A very intense cabin area with four young people and parents and the SAR techs and the flight engineer trying to just keep everybody cool and keep everybody alive. And that was pretty intense. That was probably the most intense mission. I think it was a good outcome. We got them all to the hospital. So that's what I know. And so that made me appreciate, I think, my situation with the fact that I was a parent and recognized, wow, this is like a parent's, uh, worst nightmare to have something like that happen.
Bryan: At least on that day when somebody was living their worst nightmare, you guys were there to provide that service and to get them to a hospital.
Dawn: Yes. I mean, that's, uh, what the job is all about, right? It's being there for Canadians and serving Canadians.
Bryan: You were talking about how part of how we recover as that stress builds up, and as those experiences can build up, is to stay healthy, stay ready, take care of yourself in many different ways. You actually recently wrote an article in Flight Comment, which is issue two of 2022. In the article, which you titled Safety and Effectiveness Through Wellness, you mentioned that wellness fosters safe and effective people. So what does that mean to you?
Dawn: So when I think about wellness, I think about the physical, the emotional, and the mental. So we'll talk about the physical first. So we talked about diet already and sleep. You need to stay fit. You need to make sure that your body is ready to perform. As far as the emotional side goes, we've talked a little bit about relationships, you know, aligning expectations, making sure that there isn't something on your mind that is affecting your focus. And then the mental side of things. I can talk about mindfulness a little bit. Mindfulness is when you are fully engaged in a situation, you're very much in the moment. And when you're flying an aircraft, there are times when you have to think about what's next. But when you are focused on a procedure or you're focused on a maneuver, you are very much in the cockpit in that moment, thinking about what is happening to the airplane right now.
Bryan: Can you explain from the perspective of a new pilot or someone who's about to do phase one or who's on phase one - Why is it important for them to develop this skill of being mindful.
Dawn: What mindfulness does is it allows you to practice extended focus so that you are doing the tasks that you are supposed to be doing without distraction. So, for example, let's do a walk around. So a mindful walk around means that you're looking at everything that you should be looking at and being observant. It's easy to go through the motions of a walk around with your mind actually being elsewhere. You can touch the airplane and your eyes can look at everything, but you haven't actually processed what you're looking at because your mind is thinking about your party last night, or you're thinking about the date you're going on tonight. Like, you're not even at that airplane. You're not even doing the walk around. Your mind is not there. Your body is there, but your mind is not there. And this is a really important time you're doing a walk around. You need to be very mindful of what you're actually looking at. Processing. Is this supposed to be like this, or is this not supposed to be like this? And if you can stay focused for those ten minutes that you're doing a walk around, great. But as soon as you start your walk around and you hear your phone and you're like, oh, there's a notification. I better take my phone out and start looking at that. And then you're kind of still doing the walk around while you're looking at your phone. You're not doing the walk around. You need to focus on what you are supposed to be doing and not letting your mind wander be right here, right now, in this situation.
Bryan: Basically, where aviation is such a life and death and intense skill set, it's important to be able to bring the focus that it deserves. And that's something that you can learn from practicing mindfulness.
Dawn: Yeah, that's a great way of paraphrasing that.
Bryan: I, uh, love that this is becoming a big thing in aviation, that we're getting into the psychology and the performance psychology of aviation. I think successful people were, to an extent, doing this stuff, but not by chance. Exactly. But not because they were taught it at an early stage of flight training either, which, the more we teach it, the more people are going to be using these skills and hopefully being more resilient and more robust as a result of that, as well as more successful.
Dawn: Yes. I was super stoked when they started this program because a lot of the techniques that they take from it is from sports psychology, and they're very transferable because it's the exact same sort of culture. It's about performance, it's about competitiveness, it's about self discipline. I've also made the association, uh, of flying airplanes just being with playing instruments with regards to muscle memory and anticipation of what's next. So there's a lot of correlations between flying and being an athlete and playing an instrument. I know that they're also putting a lot of emphasis on people that are gamers. Having that hand eye coordination and teamwork and communication. And those are all really important skills to have being a pilot.
Bryan: Yes, I've heard that as well, that there's a correlation between people who like to play video games and higher success rates in flying for the reasons you mentioned. So one thing that I want to be abundantly clear to the listeners is that Dawn is here because she is an awesome person and because she is an experienced pilot in the RCAF. But I do think it's important to highlight the experience of people who are less represented in the Air Force. And Dawn happens to be both a woman and a member of the queer community. So we're going to take a moment to talk about her experiences as a queer woman in the Air Force. There's certainly potential that someone out there who's listening to this identifies with less represented groups. And I want them to know what life could be like in the Air Force in case that's something they're interested in. So, Dawn, how has your experience been in the RCAF as a member of the queer community?
Dawn: I feel like my experience has been about, um, the same as your standard grey man. My experience has been very positive overall. It's been a really great environment for me. And like I said earlier, you know, I came from a competitive hockey life into the military. So there were a lot of things that just transferred really nicely with regards to the culture. And I like the people that I work with. They're incredible professionals and have always treated me with the utmost respect. I've never felt that I was discriminated against. This was not part of my experience at all. And that's not to say that people from minorities or from the queer community, it's not to say that they've never experienced that. But me personally, I have not experienced that.
Bryan: And that's all we can do is offer our own snapshot, our own personal experiences here, right?
Dawn: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a changing culture since I got here. Not so much in the sense that I don't get treated differently now than I did back then. But there are things that have changed in the culture in a very positive way. I think the ultimate message is that the culture is changing for the better and people are respectful in the RCAF. I think that's the big thing is in terms of leadership and coursemates and my peers, everybody has been nothing but respectful and professional elite soldiers. You know, the Air Force is turning into a cadre of, uh, sophisticated warriors. We are a cut above, and I think respectful is the big word. I've never had any disrespect.
Bryan: I'm really happy to hear that. I know that, like you said, that's not everybody's experience, but it is nice to hear, and I hope that's encouraging to some people who may consider this as a career. Awesome. So we're going to close in on my two favorite questions also and why they're my favorite. Basically because the whole mission of this podcast, aside from just generating some interest and letting people who are curious learn a little bit about life in the Air Force, is I want people to succeed. I want people to hear this and get some advice that they can use that's actionable advice for them in their career as a pilot or as a pilot in the Air Force. So what do you think makes a good pilot?
Dawn: The big thing I always come back to is the self awareness aspect. So somebody who is very aware of, um, their limitations, they know themselves quite well, they are aware of their surroundings, a strong observer. We talked a little bit about people who are very selfdisciplined, and the mental toughness side of this type of training is an important part. So resilience, and you develop resilience through the flight training. But having a bit of that mental toughness coming in is a really important aspect. And that's all encompassed by self awareness. And I think that's the overarching attribute that makes a really strong pilot.
Bryan: The final question that I have, my favorite question of all is what would your advice be to a new pilot? If somebody is listening to this and they are thinking about pursuing a career as a pilot or in the Air Force as a pilot, what advice would you give them?
Dawn: I would first ask them if they are okay with discomfort. And if the answer is yes, then I would say then you need to pursue this and you need to give it everything you've got from inside, from your heart, because that's where it all comes from. People are not going to give it to you. You've got to earn it. Like, earning your wings is the greatest feeling. I'd say if you want to go do it, you got to want it, so go do it.
Bryan: That's a hard lesson to learn too, if you don't realize that at first that this is all going to have to come from you. And there are going to be some times on that journey, whether it's a hard day on basic training or one of your survival courses, that you're going to think, man, why am I doing this? And you better have an answer to that. And you better be ready to push through it from your own strength because that's what it's going to take to succeed all the way through.
Dawn: The other side of the individual is also the fact that you're going through with a bunch of people who are going through the same thing as you. So they are teammates in that sense. You aren't in it alone, but the motivation is going to come from inside you. It's all about intrinsic motivation.
Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. We've talked before about kind of being the right type of crazy for flying. Can you kind of explain what you mean by that?
Dawn: Uh, there is a certain type of crazy that you need to be a pilot. You need to be able to live on the edge. You need to be able to take risks. You need to be able to thrive in this environment that is risky yet safe. We have ways of mitigating risk and you have to be okay with the risk and not everybody is okay with the risk of flying. I mean, I think that's just a reality. The type of job we do has risk involved. And so when I talk about the type of crazy you need to be, you need to be just willing to put your life on the line sometimes knowing that, uh, jeez, this is real and you have to be OK with that. And I think that uh, might be the hardest part of our job. When you reach a certain point and you start losing friends in plane crashes, that you start realizing, how am I doing right now with this level of risk? It's real and you don't realize it 'till you're at my point in your career, that it starts sinking in that am I still there? Am I still that crazy? Because I'm a very different person than I was 15 years ago.
Bryan: Yeah, it's a totally different question. When you are in your mid 30s or 40s and you have a spouse and you have kids and maybe you've lost a couple of friends because that's kind of an inevitable part of aviation is if you spend long enough in aviation, you're going to have friends who die.
Dawn: And it just takes that emotional and mental aptitude to be able to process that and be okay with it.
Bryan: Which kind of circles around to your point about selfawareness.
Dawn: It does, uh, it actually ties right into self awareness. You can't avoid the inevitable, but you can certainly live on the edge a little bit. And that's a really fun place to live.
Bryan: So Dawn, I want to thank you so much for taking the time today to do this interview.
Dawn: It's my pleasure. I'm doing what I can to help the, uh, growth of the organization and get the right people into the cockpit.
Bryan: Okay, that was awesome. That's going to be all for the inaugural flight of the Pilot Project Podcast. We are super excited to dive into your questions throughout the season. Remember, you can always send any questions you have, either in general or for a pilot from any airframe to thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or at all social media platforms at @podpilotproject. We're on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And as always, if you are a pilot or aircrew, and you have awesome photos or videos you'd like to share, please send them to our email along with a short explanation of any accounts you would like to have. That's all for now. Thank you for listening. Keep the blue side up. See ya!