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Green Shoots & Big Shifts is hosted by Reetu Gupta, who started the show to have open, hopeful conversations about what it really takes to make sustainability part of how we live, lead, and work.
Each week, she talks with people doing innovative, meaningful work, turning ideas into action. From startup founders and corporate change-makers to community leaders - reimagining how business, society, and the planet can thrive together.
These are stories about innovation, collaboration, possibility, and the everyday shifts that move us toward a more abundant and resilient future.
you're listening to Green Shoots and Big Chefs
the show that spotlights the people and ideas
transforming our world for the better
I'm your host Ritu Gupta
in every episode
I'll be talking with innovators and trailblazers
who are reimagining our relationship with our planet
earth whether it's a small spark of innovation
or a sweeping shift in how we live and work
we'll explore the stories that give us hope
and the actions making a difference
together we are planting seeds of change
and driving big shifts for a healthier
abundant sustainable future
hi welcome to our listeners
this is Reetu Gupta
your host for green shoots and big shares
today with me is Abby Jordan
from national by life Federation
so welcome Abby
it is it's great to have you on the podcast
thank you so much for having me
I'm happy to be here today
awesome yeah
so just to get us started
can you share your journey
how did you first get involved with climate education
climate work
and your current role at national by life federations
so um
N W F or the National Wildlife Federation
is actually one of the one of the oldest
conservation organizations in the United States
it was originally created by hunters
anglers
conservationists who wanted to ensure and protect
you know
wildlife and wild habitats throughout the Federation
or throughout the United States
and I serve as the Climate Education Program Manager
under the education and engagement team
my supervisor and I Emily Fano
who is the director of Climate Education
we run two programs that are based here in New York
State and New York City
the first is the climate and Resilience Education
pass Force Youth Steering Committee
which is a one year climate education
professional development
and civic engagement program that we run
for New York State high schoolers
that's done after school we have hybrid type of model
where we meet virtually once a week
but then we also have in person meetings
civic engagement opportunities
field trips and excursions
and it's a wonderful way to supplement um
high school students climate education
and then our other program is the Resilient Schools
and communities program which also has a standardized
national curriculum available for science
teachers interested in expanding their um
climate science
and resiliency education offerings in the classroom
and one of the main staple programs of risk
is the beach grass plantings
that happen every year at Coney Island
Creek Park here in southern Brooklyn New York
and the whole ethos of the beach grass plantings is
as a restoration stewardship
opportunity
for New York City students to come out into the field
and participate in climate solution
action projects yeah
that's that's wonderful to get hands on experience
and the ability to make a small change
both the programs sound like really interesting
can you give us a little more like color on each
each of the projects or programs that you have
yeah of course
so when you when you what do you mean by color though
what exactly yeah
like just go deeper
like what kind of projects do you work on like
you know
maybe an interesting project that you've worked on
recently
or in the last few years that you wanna highlight
I think
I would really like to highlight the beach grass
plantings
because we just wrapped up our planting season
so that is actually how I came to become a part of N W
F um
I was I'm I'm from Brighton Beach and Coney Island
where there is a huge need for coastal resilience
and when the risk program started
the annual beach grass plantings
I was brought in as a volunteer community advisor
so helping with program and curriculum development
or just participating in activities
and then at the time
I was working at a local high school
here in Coney Island called Liberation Diploma Plus
which is a transfer school that serves overage
and undercredited high school students
who need an opportunity for more social
emotional support in their learning
so that they turn and
and earn their high school diploma
so at Liberation
there was an opportunity to run the risk curriculum
as a year long
either in school or after school program
and I was able to bring it into the school
and serve as the risk instructor
which is really fun and really cool
cause we were able to do a lot of
climate action projects with students
after school and really dive deep into what exactly
coast resilience means what
what are the different types of climate hazards
impacting Coney Island or impacting a lot of frontline
or coastal neighborhoods here in New York City
that work really gave me an opportunity to explore
different careers within climate education
um
that I had not really known of prior right
there's a yeah the manager for the program that gets
that gets to help build those relationships and
and manage the actual operations of the beach
grass plantings and things like that
that experience in a New York City high school
you know
being able to receive financial and professional
support from N W F
at the time when I then went to graduate school
and I finished graduate school
there was an opportunity to then be recruited
trained and then to join N W
F as the Climate Education Program Manager
helping to manage risk
I got it that's really full circle right
you go from volunteering to then kind of quasi working
and then receiving right
this support but then also
you know doing
producing a work product
or building these relationships
and then eventually going back
and actually working full time for the organization
so that's been really wonderful
and I know it's not very common
but in the sector there is a lot of
there are many professionals who
they first get their start volunteering right
like they're volunteering with a project
and then slowly they're building a reputation
and a relationship with the team
or with different stakeholders involved in it
and then all of a sudden that compounds over time
like I um
I'm proud to say I am right
able to do the work I do today
because of the relationships
that I had previously established
with principals and teachers and students
so it's like I understand how certain things work
or I'm able to just bring a
a different lens to um
the organization
because they don't have as many people born and raised
or from the communities where they serve right
you usually do need someone with local knowledge
or understanding of how
of different schedules of how things work
of different cultures
and I do think that is a value I bring to an N W F yeah
that's such a such a great point
and as you said
it could be a career path for people looking to work in
either with a a
you know an organization like the N W
F or a public role or like in conservation
such a such a great point for people who are looking
who are just starting
who are just starting their careers in this space
so as as the manager for the risk program
what's what's the scope
are you working
I thought I heard you said it's a national programs
so are you working with educators across the country
or are you more focused on the New York region
so that's an excellent question
and that's actually something
that is within the purview of our team
I joined N W F
and risk
because of the hyper local work that the program does
but N W F is national right
so that there there is a
for the expansion of the projects
and risk has already expanded
it's we there's currently a risk team in Texas
and has been adapted in Puerto Rico
and in New Jersey
and in other places throughout the country
the hope right
is that many other school districts teachers
school communities
see the value in being able to have a restoration
stewardship or climate action project sponsored um
or running within their region right
running within their area uh huh
that is a and that is
we very much build out in the risk curriculum
where there are opportunities
for students and teachers to assess
the actual needs of their school community
of their own personal communities
in reference to
what do they need to be more climate resilient OK
a lot of words what does this mean
so let's take a region out west
that needs to prepare for wildfires
we're not saying you're gonna stop wildfires right
no we're saying right
how can you prepare um
how can you mitigate
how can you build your own personal resiliency
so that once you go through the climate hazard
the natural disaster that happens
you're able to then recover and then bounce forward
right like what does it
necessarily mean to be climate resilient
in a world with climate change increasing
worsening hazards and and worsening human suffering
right okay
the base isn't the foundation yeah
that could potentially having a go bag
talking to your family about the different hazards
and how to prepare for it
maybe
to have a restoration project
where you're working with native species that are right
um less likely to dry out in a drought
and provide kindling for wildfire right
so there's a lot of different steps
and things that can be done for
schools and communities to become resilient
in the wake of change of our changing climate
but it's it is regionally specific right
and I think that's really
interesting about the curriculum
and said it offers this framework for
different schools and communities
across the federation across the United States
to really think about what it means
to be resilient to the hazards that they face example
because I I never thought of that right
I'm I'm here yeah
for me yeah
being
climate resilient is thinking about how to prepare
for the next Hurricane the next storm surge
the next major storm rain storm
you know
that that's in a coastal Island City like New York
we have completely different
climate hazards to prepare for
and think about than someone out west
and let's say tell um
and let's say like Wyoming or Idaho or Montana yeah
that
that is really helpful to understand how you work with
how do you support these different communities
so for for example if
if a community or a school
or a student or a teacher wanted to start a project
and work with you how do they approach you
how does that how does that work
that's a great question we do we have a website
it's called risk NYC dot org slash curriculum
and by visiting risk
NYC dot org forward slash curriculum slash 1
you're able to access the
complete the short survey to access the curriculum
and that way you're gonna be able to access it
um it currently is living as an online document
that is a PDF
so it's a little bit more accessible to folks who um
you know how
everyone is slowly going through different iterations
of how to access things yeah
I'm sure like growing up
you remember like there was like a textbook right
like you had a textbook you know
that the nature of education and
pedagogy techniques have really changed
especially after the pandemic
things have really you know
now everyone's you have to use zoom or Google
Classroom and things like that
but I I just um state that
because having the curriculum as a digital resource
really allows access to folks all over um
the country and I think that's great
uh huh but once you are able to access the curriculum
you'll be able to see the different units
that really break down opportunities
for teachers and educators to
choose what fits them and their communities
uh huh you can either do stand alone lessons
or do each unit concurrently
there are currently three units
with the first
talking about what climate resilience truly is
how does climate resilience impact communities
what is climate resilience
and could there be an opportunity for
folks to think of a solar punk future right
a very idealistic way
where you're living in harmony with nature
and you're really thinking about a resilient future
you know
too investigates a little bit more into your community
the different community environment and climate um
aspects of it that have evolved over time
then there's an opportunity for a community asset
mapping
for social and emotional and environmental justice
and then it closes with opportunities for community
climate stories and past and present
as like showcasing of what the community has through
Unit 3 closes with a
Community Solutions for Climate Resilience
and this is great
because it allows for school and community
vulnerability assessment
what are community driven climate solutions
and then of course
the Climate Resilience Action project
uh huh within Unit 3
I feel like that's where our
annual beach grass planting
really falls into okay
where a community driven climate solution is currently
being activated at Coney Island
annually where we have hundreds of New York City
students and their teachers
come out and plant a native species with us
to be able to fortify a um
dooms system that ideally is meant to mitigate um
the erosion and sand migration of the dooms
in one of the last urban estuaries here in Brooklyn
New York yeah
thank you for sharing that resource
we will like include it in the description
so people can just download it and
and look at it great
going back to the project in Coney Island
you said like hundreds of students and teachers come
like how do you
how do you like work with so many schools like there
haha like what has like
maybe there are some lessons Learned or challenges
or maybe surprises
you were surprised by some of the things
um it seems like a massive massive project
it is fortunately I come from a background
where I'm used to working with hundreds of students
parents and teachers I was at a New York City public
high school for many years before I came to N W
F so I was used to
I was used to the system of recruitment and
and working with scheduling and things like that
but what really happens is that there's already built
relationships through the program over the years
so there's a whole outreach list
there's an opportunity to work with teachers
who've been part of the program for years
and others that are new to it
and they want to be involved and join
so it's like scheduling a doctor's appointment right
it's very much like are you available
this is the current dates of Windows
and this is what you need to do OK
if I may share and I know
I had seen before that
you were asking about one of the challenges
so the challenges this year
specifically was the weather
we um had a crazy blizzard
like two weeks before our planting season
and that caused us to reschedule a lot of schools
so that's this scrambling of like how are we gonna um
accommodate some of these schools
because it does take time
for New York City public schools
you need permission from your administrators
to be able to leave the building
right
so once you have permission from your administrators
then you of course
need to get permission from each of the students
parents especially if they're underage to under 18
so that's a little bit of administrative lift
to be able to gather all permission slips
have everything ready
and what's good is that we provide these trips
free of cost right
we know that there's a
back end work that needs to happen
between the administrative approval
parent permission scheduling
and getting a bus because New York City
teachers need to be able to get a bus
or figure out their motor transportation to a park
that is it's very far away
Coney Island Creek Park
is really far from the city center
but it's beautiful it like
it really is something very special when
when students
and teachers are able to make it out there
because it's one of a kind
it truly there's not anything like it
um in the rest of the city
to be honest so there is a lot of operational
boring operational
administrative things that happen before the exciting
yeah like the actual plantings
but I think that is the case for a lot of different um
programs out there you know
the behind the scenes
work that not many people talk about
but are essential right
like how do you coordinate with hundreds of
of schools and teachers
and then when you have a limited amount of spots
who do you prioritize who are able to come um
and and then of course
how do you maintain scheduling and
and make sure everyone is
of course taken care of
so one of the main aspects was just like communication
being open to like taking calls very early or very late
making sure to manage
that you are able to answer the email
and accommodate what they need right
like if there was a
if they needed to change from one week to another
or another day you know
you're just basically serving as a scheduler for a lot
right the creek planting season
but once you're on the ground
there's a lot of support which is lovely
yeah that's
thank you for sharing that
it seems like it's it's a lot of work
and I so like two
I have two questions I was really curious
like
I loved your story and your journey arc and how it
evolved from volunteer to to
you know working for the organization
in your experience
in the last how many years you've been doing this
have you seen stories of either teachers
or maybe even the students
they come here they do something
and it has evolved into something more something or
yeah what what are the reactions
I would just yeah
of the students and the teachers who come there
and how it has changed their lives yeah
I mean
so it's all it's all anecdotal at this point right
like we don't have any concrete data to say
went and became an environmental scientist
because of our program
we have had many student testimonials where they say
thank you so much for
for for providing us with this opportunity
I actually did have a quote
from one of our students
that I was just gonna read to you
because we're
um you know
shout out to Kadisha who is one of our um
high school students involved in the CRTF YSE
the Youth Steering Committee
but she has now come out to plant beach
grass with us through the rest program
two years in a row um
and she very much was
she had something really lovely to say
so for a recent article
she gave us a quote and she said
I just felt that
from the very beginning of my climate consciousness
in 2020 no matter what I did in my personal life
to be low waste my change in the environment
was just a blip in the system
however
doing direct and engaging volunteering activities
like planting beach grass with risk
showed me that an immediate
positive effect on the environment is possible
but not only that to preference in 2025
planting beach grass that day was super hectic
it was cold it was rainy
it was windy it was not easy
but what Abby said about planting in those conditions
that they changed the scope of how I think of my
and others actions in the world
she said it builds character
so simple but so extraordinary
I believe it
the fact that I and other students who showed out
went and stayed just goes to show how we're not a blip
but a collective a community
people who are willing to sacrifice
comfortment for the betterment of the world
is building character that our actions matter
and just getting confirmation of this hearing later
in 2026 one way to know that is that I came back
and was able to plant again
it's best to not be pessimistic of the world
and joining risk again this year
showed me that I had a bigger place in this world
I'm not just a blip so
that was really thoughtful and kind of
Kadisha to share with us um
and it made me think I was like wow
that was a tough day yeah
so context she had come last year on um
on a Saturday that we had and it was rough for you too
it was like it was cold
it was cold it was raining
it's gray and then this year
when she came with us again
on a community planting day in Saturday
gorgeous
sunny like blue skies
and you know
she and I were talking she's like
this is like
the extreme weather conditions really makes right
impact right
because
a lot of young people aren't out in the elements
they're like
they're stuck in a brick and mortar building building
yeah right
and then when you get home or something like that
many New York City
students don't have access to the outdoors
or to nature
as many other young people across the globe or
you know even in in in the country
so it is interesting to note that
experiencing those type of elements
or being outside of your comfort zone experience
like physically experiencing something new
will leave a lasting Mark right
and some of the other testimonials
we received from students
for this year's planting many complained
but then also stated
that experiencing the extreme cold and wind
of the planting days
where they were out in the field left
like kind of left a Mark on them
they're like it was very
very cold and like it was so cold it hurt
but I remember and I still remember it
so it's like it's really interesting right
cause it's like right
it's Sonic Jack's position of like okay
it's very cold it hurt
but I did something interesting
I did something that right not many people got to do
I made a little bit of a difference within this
you know opportunity that I had
and then I'm that sticks with me because again
of such extreme weather conditions right
so that's what I wanted to state
like
this year's planting season was really interesting
um
and then even among our volunteer planting monitor team
we really experienced the gamut of extreme
weather conditions this year
from very low temperatures with high winds
you know it it hurts after a while like your skin yeah
kind of like you it's like
it's hard to be outdoors
doing field work in cold temperatures
to then the next week
having temperatures in the high 60s
that's that's crazy so there I
and looking at the two between the two weeks
we had almost a 40 to 45 degree temperature difference
yeah which is pretty extreme right
you were anecdotal you can say oh look
this is an example of our changing climate I mean
over time we're gonna
we're gonna be able to see the data
trends and really associate
it is becoming more apparent that our extreme weather
anomalies are due to anthropogenic
climate change but at the right moment
it's like an anecdotal of like
do you guys see these extreme changes
living through them
you you can't just stop what you're doing
you have to continue to go through it
and that is like the resilience
one of our team members said it was like
there's no such thing as bad weather
only bad gear so
there was a lot of going back
and double layering of the socks
multiple pants multiple layers
uh huh hand warmers
things like that so yeah
I love the spirit of resilience
and Khadisha you know
I love what she said it's so
at such a young age such a deep
deep message that she shared
so we are probably getting close to the end
I also wanna ask you
is there anything else that you would like to share
yeah I think it would be great if folks really take it
take into account the importance of
finding something you're passionate in
and volunteering your time to join that
a lot of climate action work
a lot of resilience work as well
it's volunteer run right
like we're at a moment where unfortunately
a lot of social services and programs are being cut
or not receiving as much funds as necessary
and a lot of volunteer programs
need people to step up and come
you know for example
New York City Park Stewardship
which is our partner
and that's how we're able to run these um
annual beach grass plantings
is because New York City Parks
the owner of the land
and New York City Parks Stewardship
the main operators and stewards of the land are able to
you know host
um schools that we have these relationships with and
you know of course
help manage
the hundreds of students that come out to the field
to do the restorations
where of course
they're planting the beach grass
that is meant to stabilize the dunes
and I think it's important that not just students
but their families and communities find opportunities
maybe once a month or ever so often
to make a difference right
to participate in restoration stewardship work
and ecosystem restoration work
and other ways to just build community
and participate in solutions
because there is a lot of doom and gloom where all
everyone really wants to talk about is just like
this is happening and it's terrible right
right if you need an opportunity to feel like yes
there are a lot of problems
but there are solutions out there
and there's a lot of
there's a lot of excellent climate action projects
that need people
that need volunteers to just be able to just show up
and right
nature based solutions and restoration stewardship work
I champion that and and say
it's an excellent
opportunity for people to get involved
and to have a spirit of altruism
and volunteerism
also allows folks to do climate action work right
right and
and it you don't have to just plant beach grass
to help stabilize a Dune system
in Brooklyn
you can plant trees up in Manhattan or up in your
or wherever you are in a city center
because the idea is to create as much of an urban
canopy as possible to reduce the heat island effect
right
so there's many opportunities that people can find
but a lot of the challenges go out and do it
United States after World War 2
had a huge culture of altruism peace Americorps
it was the norm for people to go out and volunteer
or to become part of stewardship programs
and unfortunately over the past several decades
there has been a major decline in the amount of um
altruistic work or volunteerism
that is being done throughout the United States
and this very much comes down to a culture of practice
problem where we're not seeing
you know volunteers
or people who are out there doing the good work
celebrated in our media
or celebrated by our culture and by our
our country and that's unfortunate
cause
it used to be the case that you wanted to become like
that astronaut or the president
who was building a habitat for humanity houses right
like go back to Carter
there were examples back then or even you know
less than 10 years ago during the Obama administration
we saw this champion of the volunteer
where we saw people doing good work
through all the lens of altruism being
you know highlighted and celebrated and unfortunately
for some reason that's not the case
so maybe we can challenge
some of our young people to create some cool TikToks
maybe a TikTok challenge or an Instagram challenge
a TikTok challenge yeah
a TikTok challenge right
how do we get more young people involved in stewardship
programs restoration stewardship
involved in volunteering
involved in something bigger than themselves
where they can start to address
the loneliness epidemic right
where they can start to address this powerlessness
feeling because they're not wrong
there is something going on
and a lot of times
it does require you to just leave your phone at home
and get out and put your hands in the sand
or put your hands in the dirt
plant some plants you know that
you know
you gotta connect back to your roots and you gotta be
um yeah
part of these type of projects I'm hoping for
so the one thing I do leave with people is
maybe just get out there
get out there and try to join a project
everyone has a role to play
the solutions exist we just have to do them
and unfortunately
that also means we all have to get together and do them
right we can't wait for someone else to do it yeah
I love that it's like lead yourself
and contribute to your community
and then get out in nature and get
get your hands in the sand
because that's how you can reconnect to
you know your humanity in many ways
um I was reading somewhere that
as we get more and more tech
like AI this and everything
we need to find more and more time to reconnect with
with nature which we are definitely a part of
because it's just so easy
to just get sucked into that alternative world
um so yeah
I love what you said
so I know you've given us our marching orders um
is is there a last word you would share
when was the last time that you were able to plant
a tree or plant the plant me
I didn't I haven't done that
but I've been for a beach cleanup
that's what I did OK excellent
so you were participating in stewardship
that's lovely yeah
I mean you know
I I do wanna say
say like a lot of times
the fuel that I need to
continue to do the work that I do
comes from the volunteers
we had a team of planting monitor volunteers this year
like amazing stewards
who have
been part of different projects throughout the city
and they found interest in ours
and they gave us their time
and they were huge supports
because they were able to come out and help us
not only manage all of the students
but then share their their stories of success right
the environmental work that they do
on top of the volunteer work that they're able to do
with us and then
of course the students
I mean high school students
they're they're awake
they're paying attention right
and there is an opportunity for them to find
not only just internships
volunteer opportunities
but career paths within the climate um
science and environmental science industries and
and different type of jobs that are available
so what's cool is that
especially during our beach grass plantings
we do encourage them to talk to the New York City parks
stewardship workers who are there
and ask them like
how did you
get a job at New York City Parks and recreation right
like
this is one of the biggest departments for the city
that manages all of the natural areas
and parks that we have and when you think of New York
everyone's like oh
Times Square blah blah
not not really
many native New Yorkers think about their parks
think about Central Park Prospect Park
the 3 miles of Coney Island and Brighton Beach
Marine Park the green spaces in New York City
are actually what a lot of New York City people love
because that's where they go to find respite right
like that's where they're able to go
rest after a long day of work
they're able to go and spend time with their family
and friends and I think that's important to note
because
as the city continues to develop its resilience models
and start to prepare for the next Hurricane Sandy
or prepare for the next climate hazard that we have to
mitigate they're very much
focusing on how to increase
access to green and blue spaces throughout the city
and I think that's so important because a
one of the main staples of our
program is to get city students out in right
get them yeah
to their roots give them an opportunity to
not just learn about nature based solutions
in the classroom
through our lessons and our curriculum
but tend to be able
put into practice the theories that they know
and are able to then participate in the field
doing what they Learned and
and seeing their actions tangibly come to
come to life and I think that's really important
yeah that's beautiful
well I want to thank you
Abby for being on the podcast
and I'm I'm hoping the listeners enjoyed it as well
um so thank you very much
thank you Ritu
I really appreciate it
and I can send you some other links
we do have a couple beautiful pictures
that one of our planting monitors
um Diana was able to take
so I will include that and yeah
additional things I send your way lovely
thank you so much okay great