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Brand to Scale is a podcast where we talk to business leaders and industry influencers about how they built their brands. Each episode dives into real stories about starting up, growing through challenges, and what success looks like behind the scenes. It's an honest look at the people and ideas driving business forward.
00:00:00:12 - 00:00:24:19
Speaker 1
Welcome to brand to Scale. This is a space where I chat with business builders, creatives and leaders who've taken an idea and turned it into something real. I'm just your host founder of Alchemy, and today I'm joined by someone whose story is incredibly inspiring. Emma Armstrong is the founder of Empire Group. She's not only built a business from the ground up and launched a mobile app, but also came back from a life changing moment, which I'm sure we'll get into.
00:00:24:21 - 00:00:36:09
Speaker 1
And so great to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. I know you're very, very busy woman. How do we start? By hearing a little bit about you and what impro is all about.
00:00:36:11 - 00:01:01:00
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Lovely. So, Yeah, I founded Empire in 2018. Left having a proper job, and, And so I started it because I wanted to be a freelancer and go freelance, and, and it's kind of snowballed from there, really. So today we're, obviously a group. We've got various assets of our business, and we basically deliver change and transformation in the facilities management industry.
00:01:01:02 - 00:01:15:16
Speaker 2
It's something I fell into and I absolutely love it. And I'm so glad that I was able to and go to the film industry. So today, yeah, we're we're group and, yeah, I'm really happy, really fulfilled. And I've got really great business.
00:01:15:18 - 00:01:19:16
Speaker 1
For those of us who aren't aware what is a facilities management.
00:01:19:18 - 00:01:36:22
Speaker 2
And this is a this is the most popular question. When I first started it, I found people on a well, what is that? And it's still, you know, it's not a career choice. People don't really know what it is. If you imagine I don't, I take the BBC as an example that I want to be record intelligent making telly they don't want to be worried about.
00:01:37:01 - 00:02:01:07
Speaker 2
Are the lights on? Are the floors clean? Is a canteen stocked? It's all of those bits and pieces. So, facilities management is essentially managing real estate property and or facilities. So if you think, there's two elements to form this hard and soft services. Hard services is anything that's fixed. So if you talk about internal tidiness, look at everything that is is hard for me to pull out a soft.
00:02:01:07 - 00:02:28:01
Speaker 2
So I came in, catering security for the house. And that's all stuff. So. Yeah, really important actually. Really, really unsung Arab industry. I think if you think about Covid and stuff, key workers, keeping things clean, keeping things on moving, but if you think every city in every place in the world has got buildings with assets that need maintaining, it's actually a huge industry, really, really big.
00:02:28:03 - 00:02:47:17
Speaker 1
Yeah. So you're allowing people to do their jobs really the bits that they need to get done. Yeah. So everything's running smoothly in the background under presentation. Okay. So you might you said you fell into it. So I have got a question on is that something you always wanted to do. Yeah. Let's go back a bit. So, what was life like growing up?
00:02:47:17 - 00:02:49:10
Speaker 1
What did you want to be when you grew up?
00:02:49:12 - 00:02:50:14
Speaker 2
Oh, you're going to.
00:02:50:14 - 00:02:51:13
Speaker 1
Laugh at this, am.
00:02:51:13 - 00:03:12:16
Speaker 2
I? So I grew up at my mum and dad's. I had the most wonderful childhood. My dad, as an engineer by trade, we were always taking things apart. Fixing it. So, it's probably very kind of an element of wanting to go into a firm when I actually figured out what it was. So I grew up on kind of like a semi farm arrangement.
00:03:12:16 - 00:03:30:23
Speaker 2
So I got a smallholding with animals and bits and pieces. Only child. So I spent a lot of time with my mum and dad, and my dad's obviously run his own business for God. Longer. Longer than our cats, remember? I think he's been overlooked 50 years plus. So I think a lot of that entrepreneurial ness said rubbed off on me from a younger age.
00:03:31:01 - 00:03:46:12
Speaker 2
And when I was younger, my dad's got pictures of me and I spent a lot of time with my dad, and he's, like, very far. We were like it. So I'd always been like, camouflage stuff going out in fields. And I think when I was younger, I thought, I don't want to go into the Army, because when he's already running, I.
00:03:46:14 - 00:04:05:21
Speaker 2
So I don't know what that means or what that says about me. It has no reflection on what actually happens in the Army. And as I got older, I was kind of it's more like call for professionalism, like law, etc.. I think I never really knew what I wanted to do. Some people have a really clear vision like, oh, I want to do that and like go for it.
00:04:05:21 - 00:04:19:16
Speaker 2
And there's a very clear like career ladder you can climb. And I never really had to burn in, like, this is what I want to do. So I think I, I kind of as you go through roles in life, you try something. You think, I don't like that, but I like this bit. And you kind of pursue the bit that you like.
00:04:19:18 - 00:04:31:02
Speaker 2
And I think that's where I was at, and that's where my career started. And then when I kind of found a firm, I was a part of this. So, yeah, it's. Yeah, I never.
00:04:31:04 - 00:04:44:18
Speaker 1
Is, if your dad was, running his own business, and you grew up with that, did he encourage you to go into the entrepreneurial space early on, or did you go the traditional way? Did you go to uni and do all the other normal? Yeah.
00:04:44:20 - 00:05:05:12
Speaker 2
I think also mine as well, my mum and dad. So my mum and dad worked together at my mum's at the accountant, she keeps all the pennies and my dad went and kind of did the sales and the delivery. I saw them work really, really hard. There was no off switch. The dad lived and worked at home. I forgot my mum worked from home, so I always, when I was younger, I was I caught up with that.
00:05:05:12 - 00:05:27:18
Speaker 2
That's like if you're always on mentality. So when I've, I was always kind of in a corporate role or, and working in a business which was, wasn't mine. And like my relatives and my mum and dad's mates would always say, go work on your own. And, you know, you you really could do it. And I never really saw it myself what other people did and encourage me to, you know, grow up on my own.
00:05:28:00 - 00:05:43:12
Speaker 2
I think when I was really young, I didn't really have an idea of what I could do or what I could do. I didn't have any value proposition, and there wasn't anything that I was good at or niche enough to be able to go and and set up an office. It's financially it's quite daunting as well because you think, well, where's my next paycheck going to come from?
00:05:43:12 - 00:06:03:12
Speaker 2
Everyone else might do that. So yeah, any kind to me. A bit later on, when I'd worked in facilities and I'd found some I really, really enjoyed, that was actually really good. It's that that spread saying, I could do this for myself as opposed to being in a and it for. So when I think I did that when I was 28, 29 when I left and set up on my own.
00:06:03:14 - 00:06:04:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:06:04:08 - 00:06:12:07
Speaker 1
Was the experience of working for other people good or bad? Did it influence the the transition at all?
00:06:12:09 - 00:06:30:12
Speaker 2
I mean, I've worked with some incredible people really, really good that I'm still friends with today. We speak quite often, that there's people all over the world, actually, I've worked with that will keep in touch with, one guy that used to work with now lives in Texas. And when I was having some flowers over, he was in hospital and stuff.
00:06:30:12 - 00:06:50:11
Speaker 2
So I think I'm really good at building relationships with people and keeping those relationships. I have, however, had some stinkers and had some really go over able to work for or with. And I think, the way I've dealt with that is I've tried to take the learning, take the positive from every situation. So yeah, it might be crap and you might not be enjoying it.
00:06:50:11 - 00:07:11:01
Speaker 2
You might be unhappy, but it's not forever. It's only temporary. And take take from that. What you can learn from. So I learned exactly what I didn't like, how not to behave, the impact of how you treat people and how it makes people feel, versus the good experience that I've had. And also actually the way that I've been given autonomy, etc., that kind of motivated me.
00:07:11:03 - 00:07:27:17
Speaker 2
So I always took learned from it. But yeah, I've had I've had mixes of different experiences. I've been patted on the head once and thought I was a good girl that was interested. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I think it's is probably the same for everyone. You get good or bad everywhere.
00:07:27:19 - 00:07:47:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Well, get onto the sort of trigger point, I guess, of of stop moving into work of yourself. But do you think there's value because lots of, you know, business owners I speak to, they go straight into that entrepreneurial life and they don't necessarily have that experience in corporate environment or working for other people. Yeah. And get experience.
00:07:47:02 - 00:08:07:03
Speaker 1
Good and bad leadership. Yeah. I found same as you that going through those, experiences has helped shape the way that I lead and manage people. And I worry for the people that don't go through that experience if they have that. So do you think that that was a really valuable part that you had to go through to do this?
00:08:07:03 - 00:08:28:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, 100%. I think it's it shapes the way I mean, I'm not perfect, right? I'm making out like I've had these guys growing up, but not by any means. I don't think anybody is. But it does give you it gives you like it it you learn from it. Right? So, you know, it's variances where I've seen bullying happen in at work and the impact on like the individual and the board, the team.
00:08:28:01 - 00:08:48:11
Speaker 2
And I hate things like that now. And I think that's probably why him as a person. But having seen it, you can pick up on it a little bit more. There's a lady on my team, actually. She's a, like, an apprentice. She's called Ashton. She's absolutely amazing. She had a really, really bad experience. And we often talk about it because she knows she's like, the difference is like, day or night.
00:08:48:11 - 00:09:07:03
Speaker 2
She's like, it's so nice being in a business that kind of pours in during. She's been in an environment that's been horrendous. So, again, having that experience is probably like the way that she sees things, which is, you know, you've got a side positive, right? You can't you can't always be in the game. So I think yeah, I think it's useful to it's a good learning experience at the end of the day.
00:09:07:05 - 00:09:23:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it gives you that empathy when when you are working with people who have been through those experiences, you don't you can't brush off them because you've been there and you've. Yeah. Yeah. So what pushed you to go for working self. What was the trigger point. What happened?
00:09:24:00 - 00:09:44:17
Speaker 2
I will start it in a competition and workable a couple of part of takeover. But it's by far my favorite role, the favorite places I've ever worked for. And that's predominantly around the people, in the team and a kind of culture that it was at the time. And I did really well in that business, but progressed really quickly.
00:09:44:17 - 00:10:05:11
Speaker 2
What was some amazing people, some great leaders, was given lots of opportunity, and it got to a point. I was running really big projects, with really big kind of financial, I'm trying to think of the right word, those big powers and those big budgets. So I think one of the biggest, budgets I had to deliver was about 6 million.
00:10:05:13 - 00:10:24:06
Speaker 2
That was just to spend on the project, not not even the services that that was going to deliver, which is about 50 plus million. So I did that and I'd, I'd actually had a baby done an MBA and led this project all in the same year I had. So I must have been, I don't know how I did that or why I did that, and I wish I had that type of of energy.
00:10:24:08 - 00:10:38:15
Speaker 2
But I got to a point where, as you know, as you grow in your career, you control what's next, what's next, what's next. Because if you're not growing and developing and you feel like you stagnant, and it got to a point where I thought, well, I don't know what's next. Now I've done all of this big stuff. I've worked for all of these different people.
00:10:38:17 - 00:11:00:07
Speaker 2
I've kind of learned as much. I know the business inside and out, but where am I going to go now? So I thought, well, really, the next move is let's go out and learn more in a different industry or a different client or a different, you know, model, because each business has a different way of doing things. And unless you get that level of exposure, you're not really going to kind of transform your skill set and get that breadth of experience.
00:11:00:07 - 00:11:19:06
Speaker 2
And so it was that that was like, right, if we're going to do this, I delivered a really big project, and I thought, right now's the time to leave. On how I take all of that good stuff and knowledge with me and then join, you know, I will have to be a contractor, essentially. And I'd worked with lots of contractors before, obviously delivering big projects.
00:11:19:07 - 00:11:36:01
Speaker 2
And I was still I'm pretty sure I could do that, really show I could do that. And of what we good and bad of what was some people that, how I manipulate a situation to get longevity so that, you know, they're in term longer because as a contractor, you live and die by what you work. So the longer the project.
00:11:36:01 - 00:11:50:14
Speaker 2
But I, I'd worked with people that didn't necessarily have the right level of integrity. And I always went into it with an intention of delivering good work to the best level of my ability, as quickly as I can, to get in and out to deliver value for the customer. And I thought if I do a good job, they might ask me to go back.
00:11:50:16 - 00:12:06:17
Speaker 2
And that's that's still my mentality. Did I want to get into a good job, hand it all over, and if I do a good job by then, I call us back. Which, I've only thought about this not saying it out loud, but we've never lost a customer. We've grown 50 to 100% year on year. So I'm I think I'm living that value.
00:12:06:19 - 00:12:09:23
Speaker 2
And yeah, that's how it that's how it started.
00:12:10:00 - 00:12:21:18
Speaker 1
Amazing. I mean, that takes guts, right? All of baby and NBA all of that stuff happening at the same time. When you tired by that point you're like, I'm just going to stay here and like other rest.
00:12:21:20 - 00:12:42:14
Speaker 2
But you just I'm tired now. Yeah. I in my 20s, you know, I was speaking to one of my team yesterday, and, and she was saying the same thing, like a couple of years ago. The amount of work she was doing, she was just constantly out of the house. But I think at that time, I kind of had, I'd had I think I had a bit of a stigma that I wanted to peruse.
00:12:42:15 - 00:12:59:21
Speaker 2
I had like a, like a, I wanted to prove a point. Like, I think in, in femme, it's very male dominated. And I wanted to prove that I can do this. And I was very rarely relatively young, really. So I think I wanted to kind of push against that. Oh, you might be too young or, you know, you know, you were your female or whatever.
00:13:00:02 - 00:13:15:05
Speaker 2
So I think I kind of took that a little bit too far and trying to prove my value and prove my worth. So, yeah, I think I was just trying to prove myself a little bit more and kind of, I've, you know, credentials, credibility in the industry.
00:13:15:07 - 00:13:18:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. A lot going on in life at that point. Then.
00:13:18:12 - 00:13:42:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think I was very I've always been very organized, very structured. So I would have like a really rigid routine so I would know, what time I need to go to get to where and when. And having, having a child, a baby can't have any. You know, you've got to be organized. So I think at that time as well, being in a big corporate, it was kind of, supported by that structure.
00:13:42:01 - 00:14:01:14
Speaker 2
So, I in the business that I run today, everything's my decision. If, if you know, it fails, it's my goal and there's no one there to catch you and there's no one there to give you advice at night. Whereas when you're in big corporate, you've kind of got the rock around and the comfort of, okay, well, there is somebody somewhere that's guiding you and there are other people that care about the result.
00:14:01:14 - 00:14:21:02
Speaker 2
And it's it's more of a collective where I was when you on the right and it's more everything's down to you. And I think, when I was doing all that at once, I was really eager to prove myself. I wanted to do, you know, show everyone I could do it. And also, yeah, it's quite a protective bottle of the support in not protective, but there was that wraparound support.
00:14:21:04 - 00:14:29:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. But yeah, I look back now and I think, oh, I have no idea how I did that or why or I did, yeah.
00:14:29:18 - 00:14:47:12
Speaker 1
Amazing. So post that then you've we've chatted before and you obviously have had an experience that most people never have to go through and come out of. Can you tell us a bit more about that? And, you know, how is impacted your, your life now?
00:14:47:14 - 00:15:08:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. So what I'd left in 2018, I've been kind of working as a contractor for a couple of years, and just getting to the point that I was starting to do a little bit more than than just being on my brand. And I was working with associates delivering project. I'd actually got married the year before. We were meant to get married the year before that, but Covid happened.
00:15:08:23 - 00:15:32:01
Speaker 2
So we got on honeymoon in the UK July, and, I got back from, honeymoon, got back into work and, around August time, I, and I called it the royal visit. So I went to one of the sites where I was working on it. It was a go live day. So what? Say hello to everybody, give them a big wave and then kind of go away and reflect on it for that.
00:15:32:03 - 00:15:52:21
Speaker 2
And on the way home. And so I get pins and needles in my hands on. Oh God, this is a bit weird. While I've got pins and needles in my hands. And that just seemed to start traveling like water trickling all all over. And in the space of probably 24 hours, I went from being totally normal, absolutely fine to, actually being paralyzed.
00:15:52:22 - 00:16:13:12
Speaker 2
So I sat on the sofa and I tried to stand up and when you stand up, you don't actually just go up, right? You kind of throw yourself forwards. And I just kind of collapsed on the floor because what happened is the pins and needles was my brain, reacting? I must have had some sort of, cold or infection come in, in my brain rather than attack the infection.
00:16:13:12 - 00:16:33:18
Speaker 2
It's actually a whole nervous system. So the tingling was my nerves starting to not work because my brain wasn't sending signals to them. So even when you breathe your chest in flights, because you you clean muscles, so everything could just stop working. Got to hospital and they were like, oh, wow. You're really. Oh, we're going to put you into a coma.
00:16:33:20 - 00:16:56:17
Speaker 2
They said, we're going to give you a spinal tap. Might be Ms.. Might be getting barre syndrome. We don't know. So we're going to put you on an adjustment. That's what that is. Sort of like, keeping me alive and, Yeah, I was in a coma for, 3 or 4 weeks. And at the time that I came round, the illness had peaked and I was completely paralyzed.
00:16:56:17 - 00:17:19:07
Speaker 2
I couldn't speak as I had a tracheostomy, I couldn't move, I couldn't even close my mouth. So you've got dual muscles that keep your mouth closed. So the pictures from that time were really the harrowing. Really. And yeah, I couldn't move, couldn't speak. So it's locked. I think it's called trapped in syndrome. So it's when you. Your brain's fine, you can think you're white, you conscious, but you can't communicate.
00:17:19:07 - 00:17:32:23
Speaker 2
So, Yeah, I was like that. Probably another 4 or 5 weeks before I started getting treatment. So, yeah, it was it was an interesting experience. Very surreal. Now, when I look back.
00:17:33:01 - 00:17:35:19
Speaker 1
Does it feel like I happened in another life after.
00:17:35:20 - 00:17:49:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's it's really I mean, at the time it's horrendous because you sit there, you thinking, oh my God, what what on earth is going to happen? You think I'm not going to get better? Oh, what's wrong with me? And you sit there and you start to think, is this going to be the rest of that? It's time.
00:17:49:18 - 00:18:06:09
Speaker 2
I was like 32, 33. So I, I'm not going to be, like, desperate for the rest of my life. And what is that going to look like? And it's, it's really, really scary. And it's, it's that those moments I was thinking, well, if, you know, if this is it, what what have I achieved and what have I left?
00:18:06:09 - 00:18:13:18
Speaker 2
What's my legacy? Oh, that's really sad. If this is it, you know, and I'm terrified, my little boy and everything.
00:18:13:18 - 00:18:16:04
Speaker 1
And how was the time?
00:18:16:06 - 00:18:31:03
Speaker 2
He was. He was about six at the time. This is about three years ago. So I got out of hospital in January 23rd, and I actually just made it home just before Christmas. But when it was kind of referenced, where is January 23rd? So yeah, I was in hospitals.
00:18:31:03 - 00:18:39:11
Speaker 1
That that well, what caused that? What was the yeah. What happened? And is it an ongoing thing?
00:18:39:13 - 00:18:57:07
Speaker 2
No, it's a sort of risk of re kind of having it get it's about 5% is really. No, not impossible really. There's actually a chap that I spoke to on the internet, last year who had it twice, and he was recovering from his second time. And I was. When you're trying to recover, people speak to you and motivate you.
00:18:57:07 - 00:19:16:12
Speaker 2
It makes all the world of difference. I did some about last year. But it's essentially it's your brain's reaction. So it's your brain's reaction to anything. So you could have had a surgery, you could have had a cold. You could have had, there was a lady that I know that had this because she ironed out a sausage around them enough.
00:19:16:18 - 00:19:37:19
Speaker 2
So it's literally a reaction to your body's reaction to something. It's meant to be part of autoimmune, so I think I've got some. What do you mean, deficiencies? But we don't know exactly what. And I'm not very serious, but there has been a massive spike in, getting by, right? Since the Covid vaccine, there's been about 600% increase in it.
00:19:37:21 - 00:20:02:10
Speaker 2
And it predominantly the most part of people affected are young women, which is a real shame. There's a lady and who had the same thing as me, probably a year before me, and she's actually gone on to now be a physiotherapist and special. Gillian by right, because she was so affected by it and she's got the same shoes, the same level, the same and a criticality as me.
00:20:02:12 - 00:20:07:21
Speaker 2
But yeah, there's no it's really hard to trace back what it actually is because it could be so many different things.
00:20:07:23 - 00:20:09:05
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:20:09:06 - 00:20:09:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:20:09:22 - 00:20:22:16
Speaker 1
Logistically, than you were working for yourself at that time. And as we know, as business owners, you know, work doesn't stop. So how did that work in practice? Because you were in a coma.
00:20:22:17 - 00:20:43:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, my husband will probably, sadly, get a different side of it because I think he was having, obviously, we just got back from honeymoon, and I was like, literally. Oh, it's like turned off. It was no one could talk to me. And then, yeah, I had a couple of people that I was working with, like associates, consultants, like, independents and, and obviously projects were continuing.
00:20:43:03 - 00:21:05:08
Speaker 2
So, but because we were a lot smaller at that time, everything was dependent on Mason. The bank was me. So I'd log in and people do it so and so. No one could get into the bank, no copay. Anybody. No one could, not intervene at any point. There's no, like, a lasting power of attorney. So no one could say, well, she's incapacitated, I'll take over.
00:21:05:10 - 00:21:24:23
Speaker 2
But the team, I have to say, like, even even contractors, they can't continue does is, my clients were absolutely incredible. There's a couple of people that just went above and beyond anything you'd ever expect from a customer. And, yeah, I'm still really good friends now as opposed to anything I was and still work with them today.
00:21:25:01 - 00:21:43:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. Everyone around me was just really great and just did the best of what they could. So, my clients gave my contracts payments instead to keep them going because they were obviously not going to get paid for period of time. And everyone just coped together. Really. I couldn't have asked for a better response from both the people we worked with.
00:21:43:23 - 00:21:53:03
Speaker 2
For a husband was probably a bit stressed because he had spared all these questions and he was like, I've got no idea. But yeah, very lucky everything kept coming.
00:21:53:03 - 00:22:04:13
Speaker 1
I think that's probably a testament to your cat, isn't it? And the, the people you attract in terms of team and who you work with that, that happen. I don't think that's, you know, standard procedure. Is it for everyone?
00:22:04:13 - 00:22:16:16
Speaker 2
No, I because, you know, you what do you do? I mean, you know, you look at business resilience and you look at risk and you have the right insurance, but you never think, oh, I'm going to what's going to happen if I can do a Covid like you? That's not a normal scenario to try and plan out.
00:22:16:18 - 00:22:29:05
Speaker 2
And yeah, caught quite by and got caught by surprise. But yeah, it's and yeah. Touchwood everybody everybody was fantastic. And yeah I don't think that would happen again. Hopefully that
00:22:29:07 - 00:22:42:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's not a normal question you ask yourself, is it. You know, what happens if I go into how will I pay people. So what like practically and what measures would you advise people to put in place. You know, because these things can happen. Oh, God.
00:22:42:03 - 00:23:02:00
Speaker 2
That's a good question. I've thought about that before. I think so. One of the things we learned from that experience is that we need to have a more commercial bank set up. So as we were starting to scale, the ability to hand things off, I mean, I'm probably a bit of a control freak. So I was like, I'll keep control of everything.
00:23:02:01 - 00:23:21:00
Speaker 2
And obviously had never been in that situation before and never had a need to do anything different. But after that, we, we decided to move banks and we moved to a more commercial bank that we could give somebody access and it would be like read access, but I'd like, do like a box payments, like approved suppliers. So that's something that we do now.
00:23:21:00 - 00:23:29:09
Speaker 2
And obviously as we've got bigger, it's not really viable for me to sit and do bank transactions on my app. It's probably not very secure. Reader. Don't I wouldn't want to control then.
00:23:29:09 - 00:23:30:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. And humble.
00:23:30:06 - 00:23:49:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. I've managed to do that now although Yeah. I mean, when you go from a one man band to, to bigger and bigger and bigger, you do have to let go. And that is sometimes scary. And you, you, you come at you a little bit nervous, but, I think having the right people makes the difference. And then, yeah, it's been a really big thing.
00:23:49:17 - 00:24:09:23
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Yeah. That, that whole question around what happens if I think these probably be asked more, especially for, for scale is this is definitely you mentioned earlier about, you know, you were in that situation and thinking about you. You said that would be a shame if this is it. Like what what have I achieved? And you know, you've achieved quite a lot by that point.
00:24:09:23 - 00:24:18:22
Speaker 1
So what's going through your head around like rather than dwelling on that it seems you ago. And what what am I going to do next when I come out of this to.
00:24:19:00 - 00:24:37:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think one of the things everybody says to me is how positive I was through the whole process. So I never saw a moment and thought I never really complained about it either, were just I thought, you know what, I don't have to cook. I don't have to clean. I get to watch Netflix all day, every day.
00:24:37:08 - 00:24:46:05
Speaker 2
I speak to the parts of the time I couldn't speak, but when my tracheostomy came out, I cut to my heart. And I actually had gin and tonic in the hospital, and I got to hold off on that quite frequently.
00:24:46:05 - 00:24:48:10
Speaker 1
But you know, for me at all.
00:24:48:15 - 00:25:05:05
Speaker 2
Also, and yeah, I just try to keep really, really open and focusing on the positive and it really pushed me to. I'm one of those lots of people. If somebody says, you're not going to do that, but I'll hold my drink, move out of my way or I'm going to do that. And I took that sort of mentality to it.
00:25:05:05 - 00:25:23:21
Speaker 2
So I think the recovery side, I probably did it a lot quicker than is normal because I pushed so far rather than waiting for physio, I would be can I physio, can I physio, I can have another physio, kind of the physio today, and a program of charity because I would always be like ready and waiting and wanting to do more and more and more.
00:25:23:23 - 00:25:42:23
Speaker 2
Because after, after that I thought, yeah, I'm not going to stop. I didn't think it achieved anything, but I feel called to so much more I could do. I thought I will be doing so much more. And I think when I was in hospital, this probably slightly contradictory of my family around me was, are you going to slow down now or are you going to like, you know, life's too short.
00:25:42:23 - 00:26:01:22
Speaker 2
Enjoy yourself more. You know, relax, spend time at home. But I think I've totally gone against that now. And I've done everything to 110%. But I actually really enjoy what I do. Mark, I don't want to do anything else. If you said or you want to go to the shot rather do this, I would rather do what I love, what I do.
00:26:02:00 - 00:26:25:07
Speaker 2
I love the people I work with. And then for me, it's not really a job. I get to do what I like every day, and I think that's made such a such a big difference to, you know, people have so much more confidence in people that love what they do and they're experts. And, yeah, I just so grateful at that opportunity in the first place to get into a because I don't think I don't know what I'd be doing now if I didn't go ahead and do that.
00:26:25:09 - 00:26:39:07
Speaker 1
The universe would have found a way to push you that direction. I think. Yeah, probably have found that. Do you think that optimism and drive is, nature or nurture?
00:26:39:09 - 00:27:04:22
Speaker 2
So if I'm being completely honest with you, mental health wise, I've had ups and downs. I think I'll speak about it quite openly, because I think it's really healthy, too. And, people think there's a stigma around it and there shouldn't be. So, I think what I've done in the last 5 to 7 years is change the way I think about things, so you can look at things negatively and you can dwell on the bad.
00:27:05:00 - 00:27:25:20
Speaker 2
And if you do that, you will see negativity and bad things. If you try and see the positive or try and type something out of it, you will see the positivity in things. And I think there's a, there's a, there's a closed line with being and toxic positivity, which is everything's great even if it's bad. That's probably not a great position to be.
00:27:26:02 - 00:27:42:16
Speaker 2
But if you can, you know, there's some it could fail fast if you if you try and do something and you fail, but you learning quicker and get better at it faster, that's great thing. You developing. You're actually making progress. Even though you failed, you're making progress. And I think there's a lot. That's why I try to say things.
00:27:42:16 - 00:28:11:11
Speaker 2
You know, if I waited for perfection, I used to be a perfectionist and I would obsess about things probably too much and everything to be perfect, but then I'd spend so much time trying to get everything to be perfect that you slowly settle down. It's actually better to move. Just stop. Whatever. Whatever you doing, whatever your idea start is the first point, and I think, you know, pace and actually physically doing things, there's more value in that than trying to be perfect because that's just and it all comes down to mentality and how you think about things.
00:28:11:13 - 00:28:21:21
Speaker 1
It does. Yeah. And perfectionism hinders innovation doesn't it? Quite like your way. And perfect timing. The perfect product, perfect team, whatever it is. It just never slows.
00:28:21:21 - 00:28:41:18
Speaker 2
Yeah I never I don't think being a business has helped me kind of differentiate from that. So when you're an individual, you self critique probably quite a lot. Whereas when you're a business there is never a day when the businesses are perfect, there will always be, okay, well what's next? And how do we develop? And do we do that as well as we could, or could we do that better?
00:28:41:18 - 00:29:04:18
Speaker 2
And everything's developing all the time. And you learn to kind of you're never going to be things don't stand still. Everything is moving all the time. And when you think about business, it's easier to think like that. But when you're an individual, it's all on you. Whereas business is developed because there's multiple facets of it. And and I find that quite, comforting to think about things in that way because it's, it's more of a growth mindset.
00:29:04:20 - 00:29:23:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. The positivity element is and you've mentioned you've had peaks and troughs in terms of mental health and how you handled things. Is it your natural state to be that all you had to teach yourself to reframe things in a certain way?
00:29:23:12 - 00:29:44:20
Speaker 2
I'd say this probably been, I think when I was younger, I was probably I don't I don't know. That's a it's a really difficult question. I think I've had to my answer, I have had to teach myself to be that way. But I have an oh, I haven't always been negative prior to that. I think I've had ups and downs and as I've got older, I've learned to stabilize that.
00:29:45:02 - 00:30:07:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. But I think if you, for example, if something goes wrong and it annoys you, you could spend all of your time thinking about that and trying to fix it. And, and you go down a path and you can spiral. So I've learned that you can do that, but it's not going to get you anywhere. You're just going to go down a path of negativity.
00:30:07:20 - 00:30:23:08
Speaker 2
If you go to no, that wasn't great. We'll draw a line under it and move on and go on something good. If you're going to focus on something, it's going to get better, or you're going to focus on something that you're going to build or look forward. And I think for me, it's the difference of looking back. I'm looking forward.
00:30:23:08 - 00:30:41:05
Speaker 2
Yes, you can look back and it's great to reflect and it's great to learn and it's great to adapt. Chasing after negative things because they're annoyed you will because it didn't go well. It's not going to actually get you anywhere. And I think need the what I've learned is focus on the good and go towards the good, because it's just about everybody.
00:30:41:07 - 00:30:42:08
Speaker 1
Because it's about, yeah.
00:30:42:09 - 00:30:43:06
Speaker 2
Is it going to be the.
00:30:43:10 - 00:30:59:06
Speaker 1
Focus goes where energy flows is there is the saying isn't it. And yeah, it's very, very true. Is that trait something that you look for in people you work with clients and team as well, or is that something you can influence?
00:30:59:08 - 00:31:24:11
Speaker 2
And I think it's a personality trait, and I think I've probably got a bad habit of assuming everybody thinks like me. I think I do, I think is normal and therefore everyone else thinks that way. And that's not the case. And it's not always obvious. I think sometimes, you pick up on it as you get to know an individual and I've learned I've got better identifying it now, but sometimes somebody said, oh, you can't do that.
00:31:24:13 - 00:31:54:15
Speaker 2
Or that would be very negative. Rather than say, not sure how to do that, but we're going to figure out how or we haven't done that before, but we can do it. And you know, solution. Some people kind of think, you know, as mystically, and I think in one scale, in a business, when you're a small business, it's so important to have people that can have got a solution and a growth mindset and people that don't have a growth mindset and tell you or you can't do something will just stagnate your growth.
00:31:54:17 - 00:32:16:14
Speaker 2
And I think I've again, I've had to learn that. So nobody teaches you that somebody could teach you. But, you know, this has been I've had very little input from anybody else. We've had absolutely zero funding, zero investment. It's all been it's all been kind of me. And I've had to learn how to do things well. When things go wrong with different types of styles of management mentalities.
00:32:16:16 - 00:32:22:04
Speaker 2
And, and we're a lot better at that today. But, when I started out, I probably was great at identifying the difference.
00:32:22:06 - 00:32:48:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, there's, there's definitely a theme that comes through these conversations. And it's especially with really ambitious people who are doing great things. Is the what you said about always looking forward? What's the next thing? How can we improve? How can we do things better next time? What can we change? So, where you're at now, like, what are the changes that you've made in terms of being able to scale the companies where it's at now?
00:32:49:00 - 00:33:03:07
Speaker 1
What are the next things that you're looking at doing? And do you ever give yourself pause and time to reflect and go, actually, I've done loads and I'm really proud. Apparently I've achieved. Or do you just always look forward?
00:33:03:08 - 00:33:19:10
Speaker 2
That's a really good question. So I think as when I first started out, the big thing for me was I wanted to do a good job. I wanted to, you know, learn from people around me and experience different things. And, and I think kind of start to collect clients. And the projects got bigger and bigger. And I said, well, I can't do this.
00:33:19:10 - 00:33:43:09
Speaker 2
I'm like, I'm not going for some people. Then that's all. Okay. All right. Okay. So in the early days, it was it was very much about what I could touch and say and, you know, do a project with a couple of a couple of, supports. I think the thing that's enabled us to scale is, having a really great network, and also having, a really solid foundation to springboard off.
00:33:43:09 - 00:34:05:19
Speaker 2
So and we've spent probably we've got two, three businesses. So, the recruitment business, we spent a lot of time on the technology stack and getting that really, really, really good and really well integrated. So at any point where things go into the system, it never leaves and it's integrated into finances, integrated into all the other things that we use.
00:34:05:21 - 00:34:26:19
Speaker 2
We've got things like I, we've got lots of tools that make the guys and the girls jobs really, really easy or not. Easy work isn't always easy, but it facilitates, all the stuff that's kind of mundane and you don't want to do was repetitive. Like have a really good focus on spending quality time with, customers. So I think that's really enabled us.
00:34:26:19 - 00:34:46:02
Speaker 2
You can see now actually you've got the you've got the foundation, you've got the customers. You just need to kind of pour into it. And and the same with the consulting business, again, having a really good tech stack and having a really good foundation, and kind of delivery models around what you do. The business is really being bootstrapped.
00:34:46:02 - 00:35:02:06
Speaker 2
So every time everything I've made a put back into the business, I think last year on paper we did had a massive turnover, but I didn't make any money. And that's because everything's gone back into the business to kind of level us out for a later growth again this year. And we, you know, we look to double again in size, which is frightening.
00:35:02:10 - 00:35:16:04
Speaker 2
I don't quite know how I'm doing it, but it's happening. But yeah, that's all around the tech stack and the people that we've got around us. And again, that just that ethos of just wanting to do a good job and help people grow and get in and go out and maybe that'll have a spark.
00:35:16:08 - 00:35:39:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, I definitely want to come on to the people at the moment because that's something I'm super passionate about as well. In terms of who you surround yourself with. That is interesting time in talking about the tax shock and, how important that is for growth and how many businesses delay looking and investing in that sort of non tangible stuff, until it's too late in the have problems down the line.
00:35:39:03 - 00:35:57:09
Speaker 1
So for businesses who are at the point where they are growing, and need to get systems and processes in place going back to where you were, then, what would you say would be a priority right now for them to get nailed and sorted before that big growth stage?
00:35:57:11 - 00:36:20:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I it this falls into people as well. So systems is absolutely key. So we don't have all processes and procedures around how we do things. But we've got the systems in place that kind of feed the model. So you know, if I, if I had to, you know, ten projects, you can kind of figure out the ten projects, who's working on them, what clients are, what the overall goal is.
00:36:20:04 - 00:36:42:16
Speaker 2
If that gets any bigger than that, you start to lose track of resource alignment, capabilities, progress, you know, whether there are any issues. And there's only so much you can do and keeping your brain at one time. So having the right systems that are going to I mean, we've just got we've just upgraded our CRM. So we've now got all of our projects, all of our client contact details.
00:36:42:18 - 00:37:01:16
Speaker 2
And everything that we do is in one place and it's in one system, and we've integrated with all the other tools and the things that we have in the business. So anybody at any one time, because they everything that's going on. So if anything happens to me, yeah, yeah, it's all there. It's all traceable, it's all stored, it's all managed.
00:37:01:18 - 00:37:23:04
Speaker 2
And we've probably only nailed back in the last week or so. And we use the same system before them, but not to the level that we do now. And it's just having that really slick operating system that, you know, that you can you can, you know, divvy bits up. So when you've got projects, right. So there gets to a point that you've got so many that you need to break out into specialisms.
00:37:23:04 - 00:37:39:19
Speaker 2
So we've got a team that focuses on relocation and move management. And then we've got a team that focuses on bids, and we've got a team that focuses on mobilizations. They're all projects, but they're all very different. So we've got specialisms in each area. So the more project they all the teams grow and expand and that's how we manage it.
00:37:39:21 - 00:38:01:05
Speaker 2
And but without that, without that operating system, I have no idea how to manage that. It would be pure chaos. And using things that I to help you with, you know, generating information or automating processes or picking up and analyzing things in the system. So it's all there has been a real game changer across.
00:38:01:07 - 00:38:09:17
Speaker 1
Has that been, with the support of external help or have you learned, develop that yourself?
00:38:09:19 - 00:38:34:06
Speaker 2
I, I mean, if you ask any of the team, I think there's probably an argument whether it's chaos or ADHD, but I am constantly thinking about work, and I'm constantly googling things and having an idea. And, not that I'm a magpie, but I've looked and trialed like, I'll know what I want and what I'm looking for, and I think if I give it to somebody else, they're not thinking the same thing as me.
00:38:34:11 - 00:38:51:23
Speaker 2
So I'll probably I'm quite an active participant in the business is how I describe it. So, I'll kind of go off and trial things, and if I think it's good, I'll bring it back to the team and say, I found this. What do you think sometimes would be like, it's not, it's not the work or sometimes, but actually that is going to be a massive help.
00:38:52:01 - 00:39:16:01
Speaker 2
And that we, we start using it. So, trying to think of a good example, at, press master AI is a tool that we've just started using. And that essentially will take anything content wise that we've got and it will issue a press release, it will post it on LinkedIn or post it on our website, and it will create like personal posts at the same time to post on personal socials.
00:39:16:02 - 00:39:33:19
Speaker 2
So having that kind of technology that takes a form of content breaks it down into various things and pushes it out for you. And you can look at the kind of performance of all of those different things in one place. Yeah. That's amazing. I mean, we have an it's it's not logic. The website's not set up to have it pushed to, but things like that.
00:39:33:19 - 00:39:51:19
Speaker 2
I mean, they're relatively inexpensive. You're talking like ten, £20 a month. But the ability that that gives you so Ashton, who's our marketing sales lady, is amazing. He has got to do that manually now. And she can just pick up and focus on something else and just little things like that. I'm just always looking at, okay, I'm looking forward to what's going to make it better.
00:39:51:19 - 00:39:53:17
Speaker 2
How can we do this? You know?
00:39:53:19 - 00:40:14:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. Challenge on that front then if you're because you use that and it's, it's there, you know. No one knows the business as well as you do, knows where you want it to go as well as you do thinks the way that you do is that scalable? Like, what's your plan for the future? You always going to be working?
00:40:14:18 - 00:40:31:17
Speaker 2
So people often ask me, what's your end goal, what you're trying to get to. And I don't really have one. And I do think about it quite a lot. Somebody said to me, or actually this this year in January, somebody said cowboy business was so cool. No, no, you thought about my business. I'm was like, oh, no, like, it's my name above the door.
00:40:31:17 - 00:40:50:15
Speaker 2
It's everything I've been building. It's what I love today. Then it does start you thinking, well, you know, if you scale, is there going to come a point where actually, I'm having great time at the minute and I'm kind of growing a business and I'm doing it the way I want to do it, make the decisions. And we're quite agile on the difference quite quickly.
00:40:50:17 - 00:41:08:13
Speaker 2
The probably will come a point at some time that might occur. I've done this now I know I'll be thinking, what's next? What am I going to do next? And I'm I'm moaning through that at the minute because I don't know what that is. I don't know what that looks like. I think one of the things I'm really interested in is mergers and acquisitions.
00:41:08:15 - 00:41:25:08
Speaker 2
So whether that's we start doing that as a service, whether that's we look at or in another business, whether that's we look at something I don't know. But I think for me, that's my bucket list thing that I've not done that I want to do. But whether that happens or not, say.
00:41:25:10 - 00:41:34:05
Speaker 1
I imagine it will. And judging by what you said today, you'll be researching that by by 5 p.m. today and know where you're going with it. I've looked at, oh yeah.
00:41:34:08 - 00:41:49:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah I've. Yeah, I tried to slow down because I have these ideas and I run off a 100 mile an hour like, oh hi. My mum told me I was a nightmare as a child. She was like, you always had to be doing something. Yeah. So, I'm never I'm never not thinking about the time.
00:41:49:20 - 00:41:55:05
Speaker 2
I'm starting to finish some big. I'm started. I'm already thinking about what am I going to do next? I'm very like.
00:41:55:07 - 00:41:56:22
Speaker 1
Is patience an issue?
00:41:57:00 - 00:42:12:10
Speaker 2
Yes. I'm not. Want it yesterday I might do it myself because I'll do it now that. Yeah, but I will take it on too much. I'm going to. I'll probably shouldn't have said I'm going to do this, because there's probably people that could do it better and faster than me anyway. So, yeah, I do have a tendency to.
00:42:12:12 - 00:42:30:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, very. I'm not. Yeah. Not negatively, but I, I'm very pace a lot. And I think that lends itself to the sorts of projects that we do. Do we do projects that need very swift, decisive energy. So I think that's why it's probably comes quite well, because that's what I'm like, this person. My husband would agree as well.
00:42:30:23 - 00:42:32:11
Speaker 2
I'm very passionate.
00:42:32:13 - 00:42:42:19
Speaker 1
As brilliant as. But I feel like you have to be like that. If you're you're growing fast and building something great. It's just it has to be an obsession to a point, I think. Yeah. I think.
00:42:42:19 - 00:43:00:13
Speaker 2
Mentally as well I can and, and, and I probably I've got an element of ADHD, but I could think about multiple things at the same time and I can run with lots of things. Whereas, you know, some people, especially an example of this, you like to do one thing at a time. And if I say too many things, you like, well, words, too much going on here.
00:43:00:13 - 00:43:15:08
Speaker 2
Where was I like that? The, the kind of mixture of everything that's happened in, which is probably why I like farm, because there's always different things happening in so many different streams and parts to it. And I think that's what. Yeah, it's all the way I think is probably a little bit different.
00:43:15:08 - 00:43:24:00
Speaker 1
I love that because I, I feel the same. I think I'm like you, my husband's like your husband. And I always say, you have one person like that and one person like that, and they marry each other.
00:43:24:02 - 00:43:24:13
Speaker 2
Yes.
00:43:24:15 - 00:43:38:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And perfect plan. Perfect plans. How important was, if at all focusing on develop, knowing the, the brand and the brand language as, as you've scaled.
00:43:38:10 - 00:44:00:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think that's, I think one of the things I'm probably quite good at. So if you put me in another version of me next to each other, I think the what makes what's helped the business scale is I'm very I won't say pop. I'm good at the kind of shouting about what we do. We're lots of people that are probably a lot better than me, that do really cool stuff, but they're not great shouting about it.
00:44:01:01 - 00:44:18:19
Speaker 2
And I think getting your message out is so important because you could do loads of cool stuff. You could be amazing, but you need to go and tell people, yeah, and this is somebody said to me, to me once, because I was I didn't used to be good at that. And I was mentored on the can't remember exactly what it was, but they said, no one's going to blow your trumpet for you.
00:44:18:19 - 00:44:34:19
Speaker 2
You need by your own trumpet. And that was like a light bulb moment. I was like, that might so much sense. Yeah. So, I like to celebrate successes. I'm always looking, right. If we do a project and it goes really well, what are we going to do with that? That is a brilliant outcome or an outcome.
00:44:34:19 - 00:44:53:12
Speaker 2
We need to go and do an industry award, or we need to go and do something with that to gain the credibility. And everybody gets the recognition they deserve. So I think I've always been very conscious of building that credibility and that brand and shouting about what we do and showing, showing up and showing people are talking about it.
00:44:53:14 - 00:45:14:01
Speaker 2
And as we start, it's a community of projects. And with the apps specifically outdoor, actually, we've got a really good product here, and I've got a way of doing things that I've developed over the years of how I approach projects and how I approach business. And I thought, I really want to call it not protect it, but have something that's more than just a brand.
00:45:14:03 - 00:45:35:04
Speaker 2
I thought, there's nothing stopping anybody kind of taking what I do and copying it. And that has happened. But it's, you know, each their own. So we did a digital ad for trademarks in the last year, and so we trademarked Em Pro so that when we use it, it's like, that's our methodology. That's why we do things on like the app that's like the embryo app.
00:45:35:04 - 00:45:55:01
Speaker 2
And this is what it does. And, and, yeah, I've kind of been conscious about building that. And I think one of the big things that I did that I was so frightened off, I was so nervous, I thought, there's so many organizations that in the industry that we're in that are very like vanilla gray, blue, green and very kind of neutral tones.
00:45:55:01 - 00:46:21:13
Speaker 2
And, I visited the team, I'm better with diversity now because I took it too far. We did have an all female team, but, I wanted to be really, like, stand out and be different. So our brand is very bold, very colorful. And I did that intentionally because I wanted to be different. But the fear or how did doing that and I thought I was going to get backlash be like I was too girly or they just to go all that sort of rhetoric and I'm really conscious of that.
00:46:21:13 - 00:46:36:23
Speaker 2
But actually it's been so well received and asked if you can see a mile off because it's just so different and it's just so bright and colorful, which I think, you know, we probably need more of in the industry. We need people to think differently. We don't want to have everything all the same because that's just status quo.
00:46:36:23 - 00:46:56:21
Speaker 2
We want different. We want innovation. So yeah, we've been really conscious about that. Again, after some things. Well, I've learned as I've gone, you know, it the example of we were an all female team. I think I'd had probably my fingers in previous lives and I'd wanted to, you know, build something to prove a point.
00:46:56:21 - 00:47:03:04
Speaker 2
And now we've kind of. I feel like it might look kind of obvious, but a little bit more now. But, yeah, it's been interesting.
00:47:03:04 - 00:47:09:11
Speaker 1
To talk to me more about that than the all female team. What was the the purpose behind that and why? Why the shift?
00:47:09:13 - 00:47:38:11
Speaker 2
I think I'd had, earlier in my career, I had a lot of and I'd had a lot of stick or negativity. So because as part of the industry, it's quite technical. It's quite like mechanical electrical engineering. There's a lot of, like, technical bits and pieces within the hard services area. And I think there is the, the one wouldn't necessarily say I see a lot of it now, but that's probably the people that I deal with, the more open minded.
00:47:38:11 - 00:48:00:23
Speaker 2
But there is a lot of, well, you can't be lucky enough to do a technical piece because you're a girl. So whereas the blokes, whereas the person that understands the technical side and I, they yeah, I'd had a couple of challenges in encounter that sort of spice and you know, working with you know, sometimes those sorts of arguments, I think I wanted to again, I was probably had in the back of my mind, not consciously or subconsciously.
00:48:00:23 - 00:48:22:20
Speaker 2
I was probably trying to prove a point that actually, here we are running a business. We're all female. We're doing a great job. Yeah. There's a lady called er, Cat pass, and she's probably done some similar, she, set up, she bought a property and she wanted to rebuild it, but she only wanted to use females to prove a point that you can do it.
00:48:22:22 - 00:48:44:13
Speaker 2
So they had ships, I had builders, I had architects, you know, landscape is everything. It was an all female team called All Female build. I think, and Cat in disguise. Had I think to us at the minute, amazing person to follow. And again, that's just, it's, it's just proven a point that can be done. And there are people out there, yeah.
00:48:44:13 - 00:48:50:17
Speaker 2
And I've probably moved on a little bit too now, but I think at the time I probably had a chip on my shoulder or a book to bear at some point.
00:48:50:17 - 00:49:07:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Well, we all have those that way. Yeah. And so someone, someone calls media in an organization again, I'm just going to lose my focus. Mike might you mentioned it in passing that. But let's talk about the app. So what is it? What inspired it? How did you get the idea to become a reality?
00:49:07:21 - 00:49:31:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. So we were doing a project, one of our five clients. We do quite a lot work for and and part the project that we were working on. They had a challenge around how they were going to distribute, learning to is essentially, contracts. So the contract, they had six different locations in the UK. They had multiple businesses that were being subcontracted on this contract.
00:49:31:06 - 00:49:51:00
Speaker 2
So there's about 3 or 4 different organizations operating delivering service, but all had to maintain this strict KPI regime or about 91 KPIs per location. So slightly different depending on the location that you were room. So was oh God, how are we going to do this? It's like, do you do or PowerPoint? Do you sit in front of people to try them all the time?
00:49:51:00 - 00:50:10:04
Speaker 2
But then if you have churn, people leave it go. It's like that's going to be just a painful process. And we thought about doing concertina cards with they'll training stuff in, but then cleaners, it was all about languages and it's going to get tatty and scruffy and it's not going to be great image if they've got these scruffy cards that they're looking through.
00:50:10:06 - 00:50:31:07
Speaker 2
And what we were solution. And it was why don't we do it, you know, could we do this digitally? And then it was all actually, if we do it digitally, I can't say that was okay. If we do it like that, you know, can we change the language and can we track where, you know, where users are and how that you know, how a perceived need for mission and what they gain, what they have and challenges with.
00:50:31:09 - 00:50:46:02
Speaker 2
And then and one of the take or actually what it we turned into a quiz and make it a game. Why don't we turn it into a game. So that was the original idea behind the app. So, we delivered that actually very quickly. I again, I don't know how we ended up doing this, but we delivered it within eight weeks.
00:50:46:02 - 00:51:04:07
Speaker 2
We built the app, built the training, and got through all. We'd never done an app before, so we had to jump through several hoops of onboarding with the client so we can deliver an app for you. Here's all of our processes and policies. Article that one of the girls took delivering or the try and, and the other one to the technology side and the developer.
00:51:04:09 - 00:51:27:01
Speaker 2
And when we put it all together. Yes. Eight weeks, we did it quite a bit and deployed it. Yeah. Really fast. Multiple languages. Really, really good project. We even did like a reporting back end for the customer. And that was what that was like, a web based application. And, and then we were kind of a couple of months post that project going live client list.
00:51:27:01 - 00:51:50:14
Speaker 2
It went across like four organizations. Collaboration. Yeah. On steroids was great. And then part of what we do, and part of what happens a lot in the facilities industry as contracts change hands. So I a contract on me from Marty to Yes or CBRE to jail and vice versa. So that becomes a lot of Tupe, which is where you transfer from one business to another.
00:51:50:14 - 00:52:15:00
Speaker 2
As an employer, all your rights are protected. So your salary, your hours, you pensions, etc.. All actually one of the big problems I see is people transfer in, but it's such a naff process. So, depending on your organization and depending how developed you are, sometimes people are like scanning passports and. Right. And this is a true lightness cuz you have to do right to work as part of onboarding.
00:52:15:02 - 00:52:33:00
Speaker 2
And sometimes bank details are provided in the written down in the wrong goal. Well, there's so many things that can go adrift. And I thought, well, we've got this really good platform. If we added a few bits into it, we could make a really, really good application that, boards just trying in. There's all of those good things.
00:52:33:02 - 00:52:53:17
Speaker 2
And it's, it's like a change management process. And if you think about Tupe, it's not business as usual onboarding. It's not a new employee that you've interviewed. It's actually a shift. And it's not it's not a normal thing to do. And most HRA information systems aren't set up to do to be because it's just so it's just not a standard thing, but it happens actually a lot.
00:52:53:19 - 00:53:15:10
Speaker 2
Reset I know that numbers. I found this really interesting. Actually. There are 48,000 GP transfer processes that happen every single year and affects 2.3 million people. So the at the market, the actual that the addressable market is actually phenomenal. So it's really, really big. And it doesn't just happen in a facilities environment and it contract changes.
00:53:15:10 - 00:53:34:07
Speaker 2
If you have a merger and acquisition you'd go through the same process. So and we've really invested quite a lot of time and into building out a kind of GP specialism for both so and for comms retirement. And this app is inside it. And every single person I speak to got such good idea. I don't know why.
00:53:34:07 - 00:53:50:18
Speaker 2
I will not know. So that was one of I. Why why do we not? Why are we not using all the technology to our advantage. And I wanted that. So, Yeah. So what I'm really proud of is this developed and, Yeah, we've packaged up, we've got lots of Intel in it and it's it's going it's going really well.
00:53:50:20 - 00:54:09:17
Speaker 2
I'm really proud of the team and the clients that we're working with that I've got, I've seen, such an uptick in the, partners engagement. And, you know, they get so much more out of the conversations because they're going through a process that supported and that they can see that they've been invested in. So yeah, it's go very well.
00:54:09:21 - 00:54:14:10
Speaker 1
So what's planned with that then? Is that a reseller license? So yeah.
00:54:14:10 - 00:54:35:03
Speaker 2
So what we've so I spent again last year that we made are in reinvested in that. So it was a big commitment. I thought if this flops I've just lost everything I've had for the last year. But also convinced it it was such a good idea. So, what it is now, it's, it's a tool that we, we sell, so we package it up as a solution.
00:54:35:05 - 00:54:53:14
Speaker 2
We sell it to clients as a one off fee to onboard and brand it, and then, not a per user because I didn't want it to become. Or we'll give it to that person, or that person said, use it as much as you want. There are different levels. There you go. Because it's for me. I want it to be used because I believe in the process and it being a better experience.
00:54:53:15 - 00:55:12:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then there's like barcode reporting that can log in to and see everything. So, there was somebody I spoke to about AI and what we could do with that data with AI and how you could kind of drawing sorts from it. So I think there's probably a whole heap of development it's going to follow in not probably 2026 or back end of this year.
00:55:12:13 - 00:55:27:16
Speaker 2
But again, I don't really know where it's going to go. I'm quite excited is I might because this could be the start of something. Yeah. Really great. It it might, it might, you know, be useful for a period of time and then I don't know, but, Yeah, I need to, I need to sort my strategy out, but it's just an idea that happened.
00:55:27:18 - 00:55:32:03
Speaker 2
I believe in it that much we've invested in it. And, ever just seen where there's.
00:55:32:06 - 00:55:36:01
Speaker 1
A love for us? Incredibly ambitious and risky.
00:55:36:03 - 00:56:01:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Really risky. Really risky. Sometimes. There have been times when I've thought, oh, God, have I done the right thing here? And there's been moments that also. Oh, this isn't going to, this isn't going to work or no one's going to, you know, no one's going to be interested. But when I go out and I see people doing transfers or doing mobilizations and they're not, I just think it's such a such a sensible thing to do that we've even want things in my, uniform order.
00:56:01:02 - 00:56:14:12
Speaker 2
And so if you're somebody that's moving business, you're an engineer, you can do a uniform ordering in it. Or if you clearly, you know, you can just do everything in one place or not. This just makes sense to me. So, yeah. Yeah.
00:56:14:14 - 00:56:23:19
Speaker 1
Do you think as an entrepreneur, business owner leader that you need to be, you need to have a healthy attitude to risk, to be able to move things forward?
00:56:24:00 - 00:56:50:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. So, there's a lady I can't remember a name is I think it's Jody Sanchez. I think that's an I. So Instagram. One of the things she says about people that are successful and not successful, it's your ability to do things quickly. So two people could have the same idea. The one that delivers it the fastest will be the more successful one, because they'll get to market faster and faster.
00:56:50:14 - 00:57:10:00
Speaker 2
Pace is really, really important. Yeah. But no race, no reward. No. You know, and you know, I've made investments in the past to make a warehouse and I've gone not well that if you if you don't try, you never going to know. And and you know, all the people that have been successful, it's never a guaranteed 100%.
00:57:10:05 - 00:57:27:10
Speaker 2
This is what's going to happen. It never rains. And I think you've got to take that risk. Yeah. It's got to be calculated risk. It's got to be sensible. I mean, you don't want to kind of just set things on fire. And I think that one that the act actually was a it's been a passion project. Yeah.
00:57:27:11 - 00:57:40:22
Speaker 2
It's always been a risk. And they've been points where, you know, last year I invested in it and it was, you know, cash flow wise, it took quite a lot of our other business for quite a long time before seeing any return. But again, it's just something that I just it was such a good, good idea.
00:57:41:02 - 00:57:47:00
Speaker 2
Well, the, it just made sense. Me and I thought if I can, you know, somebody else is just going to do it, then.
00:57:47:02 - 00:58:08:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, someone else will get them for you. It it sounds like use it goes back to that. You know what's next thing, doesn't it. Like what. What can we do next. How can we improve next. What can we do to make, you know, system processes, businesses that offer for everyone. Which makes total sense. The being able to and also enjoying what you do because you said that as well.
00:58:08:15 - 00:58:30:23
Speaker 1
You love what you do. So it's not a job. It's a passion. How do you manage that when you are growing a team? Because, you know, by default you're hiring people. They are just not going to be in it as much as you are because it's your thing. It's your baby. Yeah. And bring people along for the ride.
00:58:30:23 - 00:58:53:04
Speaker 1
If you communicate the vision and values well enough and and inspire them to come along for the journey. But lots of businesses, businesses, leaders on shares don't do that at all. Don't communicate enough about why they're doing what they're doing, and then they lose good people along the way. So you've met. Yeah, I loving who you work with and the team you work with and the clients as well.
00:58:53:04 - 00:59:02:04
Speaker 1
So how has that been an accident? Or have you purposely set out to only work with great people that you enjoy?
00:59:02:05 - 00:59:21:03
Speaker 2
I think the team I've got now, there's the there are people in the team that, you know, there are good days and bad days and I'm like, look, I've got you back 110%. Everyone's going to have a bad day like I've got you. And and I think there members of the team that's so loyal, like if you cut them open, they believe the business.
00:59:21:03 - 00:59:38:11
Speaker 2
And I have so much respect for that because that is so hard to come by. And I think there are other people and other types of mindset that it's an order to fight and they get right and they go home. That's absolute fine because the world is majority of people in the world and businesses need people that that do that.
00:59:38:17 - 00:59:58:12
Speaker 2
But I think when you're such a small business and there is so much at risk because I've got a lot there's a lot of risk in this business. And, you know, it wouldn't take a lot for us to, you know, have a wobble. And I think having people that are so staunchly loyal and passionate about what they do, and I bought into the way that you do things is really important.
00:59:58:14 - 01:00:21:19
Speaker 2
And I'm really confident everyone we've got in the business today, I ask that, I haven't always had that and I haven't always recognized that. And that is probably been one of my biggest fight is or challenges in that I've not always got it right. And I think one of the things I've struggled with the most is, I am very positive.
01:00:21:20 - 01:00:50:10
Speaker 2
I want to warn everyone and say, look, this is where we're going. This is what we're doing. This is the vision. And I'll try and motivate people. But then I've become too close, and I become too friendly, that when I have to then switch hats and be like, this isn't right. It's. It's such a hard conversation to have because I've been this happy, bright, inviting person, that that feels that feel for individuals, that it hurts more because that of the challenge, like having to switch the conversation.
01:00:50:12 - 01:01:07:18
Speaker 2
And I think one of the things I reflected on is probably I'm a great leader and I'm a great visionary, but I'm not good manager. I'm a terrible manager. And actually there are people that are better at managing than me. And I think I'm good at talking about the business, thinking about what's next, looking forward, doing all that good stuff.
01:01:07:20 - 01:01:34:23
Speaker 2
And yet the decisions that I've made really recently, I've it's to bring in people that can, I can go off and do that bit because that's what I'm good at. And no one's going to talk about the business like, oh, well, and then hand over to people that are actually better at the doing and the better at the and that haven't got that level of, probably emotional investment because that's the bit as a leader and a founder, you will find the most challenging because, you know, business is only good is the people you've got around them.
01:01:34:23 - 01:01:51:21
Speaker 2
You need to motivate your team, but you also need to be on top of those difficult conversations. And that's something that I've really struggled with. So I've learned that actually lean on your strengths, do what you're good at, what you're not good at, bring people into support you. Because if I do, carried on doing managing that way, I would have just ended up burning paper.
01:01:51:21 - 01:02:02:14
Speaker 2
And that's not great. And that's not my kind of the way that I like to do things. So I'm now surrounded myself with people that I've kind of got that likes, that can them so that that doesn't become a future issue.
01:02:02:16 - 01:02:21:23
Speaker 1
That's so important in that recognizing the bits that you're good at and the bits that you're bada and bring in people who are better than you at that. Yeah. That's such a powerful, message there. Definitely. I'm assuming you still have a, a fair hand in, or control over recruitment and who you bring in. So. Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:21:23 - 01:02:31:14
Speaker 1
So how do you what is that process like? How do you make sure that that person's got the right value skills. Whatever it is to, to succeed with you.
01:02:31:16 - 01:02:46:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think over here of public, probably not the right person to ask this question. So because I judge people, can I work with you? What I, what I do, I want to spend time with you, go to the pub with you. And, you know, I'm going to enjoy working with you because I think spend a lot of time at work.
01:02:46:02 - 01:03:03:07
Speaker 2
And again, you need people that have got that right mentality that are going to, you know, the the idea we're speaking about on edge called Holly. She's a great example of our business. And and what we stand for. And for me that's more around judgment as opposed to talk to somebody about competencies. And how would you behave in this situation?
01:03:03:07 - 01:03:26:12
Speaker 2
Because somebody can give a great interview and they can talk the talk. But can they actually deliver? And, sometimes that's quite hard to figure out. And I think, you know, businesses are probably gonna one of the things I've looked at as a, as a business owner is what you do is you think about, you know, you use growth and why that's coming from when you think about the people that support that.
01:03:26:14 - 01:03:58:23
Speaker 2
What's going on with, what labor suggesting with what, what, what pace and transformation. So changing the, legalities around, you know, you've got rights and Dayuan and all of that good stuff that's going to change the way people approach recruitment and approach, I think, is workforce management in general. So for me, I'm looking at actually do we want, there's an element, we want a core team that are the people that you call at the moment they play the business, but then anything else will probably use it subcontractors or associates, because there's always going to be that element of risk.
01:03:59:00 - 01:04:22:02
Speaker 2
And when you're a small business, that's really hard to be able to hold that risk all the time. So I think one of the biggest things for me is actually what does the workforce of the future look like? Because if things go as planned, that's going to change the working world for everybody in the UK. Yeah, I'm probably having really, really strict, like kind of probation periods.
01:04:22:02 - 01:04:40:11
Speaker 2
And what could looks like is probably going to be really key. I've done well in the past. Probably not. Again, because like judge people have perceive them. And if I want to work with them, which might not be the right thing. Just to caveat anyone listening, I'm not suggesting you do that. Yeah. For me it's more about fit and culture and you know, are you going to.
01:04:40:11 - 01:04:45:03
Speaker 2
If we were all in the trenches and something went wrong, were you going to be there with this? Are you going to be off and you.
01:04:45:03 - 01:04:46:15
Speaker 1
Got my back if something goes, yeah.
01:04:46:15 - 01:05:00:05
Speaker 2
It's integrity. Loyalty is a massive thing for me. Massive, massive, massive thing. If I trust somebody, I can go anywhere else. If I can't trust somebody. But I want to work with them. Yeah. And that's pretty much yeah. As soon as that's gotten about, it's just not.
01:05:00:07 - 01:05:25:06
Speaker 1
I think that's great advice. And it has to work both ways as well as they need to trust you. And there's lots of you know, the recruitment is a challenge for a lot of businesses at the moment. And on some of the, you know, interviews that I've been part of different businesses or seeing their recruitment process, some of it is very one way, you know, like this is what we need from you rather than, you know, this is who we are.
01:05:25:12 - 01:05:46:09
Speaker 1
Do you feel like you could, you know, be loyal to a business or, or work with us? And I think that, yeah, it's definitely a two way street, 100%. We've you've mentioned networks earlier and, you know, running a business, especially the way you've done it, family, all the challenges you've been through can be quite a lonely place and lots of gens.
01:05:46:09 - 01:06:02:06
Speaker 1
You're you're very fast pace, lots of stuff going on. Do you have someone that you go to for support to offload on to a mentor, like whatever you want to call it. Do you have someone like that?
01:06:02:08 - 01:06:26:14
Speaker 2
I have had at times, but I think it's it's really it's really difficult to have somebody that sat at the side doesn't necessarily understand all the day to day because that's it's quite difficult because you're only going to get one lens really. And not knowing the people involved is, again, probably quite challenging. I think the, the person I'll probably take the most.
01:06:26:16 - 01:06:48:06
Speaker 2
I'll say the most is probably my husband. So, he knows good days, bad days and everything in between. And he's probably one of the only one of my biggest supporters. And I do run a lot past him for, What do you think about this? I mean, okay, we're like yin and yang. He is where I'm very positive and forgiving and and that's it.
01:06:48:06 - 01:07:14:14
Speaker 2
He's more he's probably more ruthless as a business person. And that's his style. And if I think I'm being too soft there, my being weak because I think you know, beacons is is why some people be seen as a every weakness. I can kind of take stands on cam and he's like, not our you need to buy back a little bit here or actually you need to, you know, he's he's a really great once I, he's a mentor but he's a really great reference point.
01:07:14:16 - 01:07:32:00
Speaker 2
And he's actually joined the business a couple of weeks ago. So he's going to be leading the recruitment arm because he's been doing that for got 20 odd years, always felt with the people, always building, you know, life for the people. So, the two of us together, the networks that we have and the way that we offer, I mean, he's an animal.
01:07:32:00 - 01:07:48:05
Speaker 2
His job is mind. And I've never seen anyone do better. The two of us coming together is probably quite frightening, I would think. That you've we're really we're really excited by that as well. And equally, it's great to have somebody that's. I'm married to him. So I know he's got our best interests or should have. Yeah.
01:07:48:06 - 01:07:49:11
Speaker 2
So yeah.
01:07:49:12 - 01:08:17:05
Speaker 1
I love that. I mean, I myself, my husband run the business together as well. So and we, we've done that for a good 14, 14 years now as well. So I can appreciate the, complexities but also amazing support that comes with that because you can have the conversations that you wouldn't necessarily be able to have with without me now and ask them, as a woman building a business from scratch, how important is it?
01:08:17:05 - 01:08:28:05
Speaker 1
I think we're probably going off topic a little bit, but I'm interested. How important is it having the right partner at home to be able to do this and have a family?
01:08:28:07 - 01:08:47:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's an amazing question. And you know what really early in my career, when I was, probably before we even had Oscar, somebody said to me, your partner will make a difference in you retire. Like who you choose to spend your life with will impact your entire life. Like if you choose to. You know, that's my person.
01:08:47:08 - 01:09:04:09
Speaker 2
And the lovely thing about Martin is, if I need to be, somewhere is on time. I'll deal with everything on. I got it. You got. You do what you need to do. I mean, there's swings and roundabouts, right? When he's been employed and he's worked for somebody else. It's worked both ways. But I think, Yeah.
01:09:04:11 - 01:09:32:09
Speaker 2
The lovely thing now is that we can work around each other. So my dad's being incredibly police are multiple strokes. And, and, you know, I've wanted to be more around for him and my mum. And now having now that we're working together, we can have the flexibility to say, I'm going to go and see my mom and my dad or, you know, Martin's gone somewhere and he's pops in on the way home and just got just the ability to do that means so much more and just gives you that element of like, a closeness.
01:09:32:09 - 01:09:54:14
Speaker 2
And, when I actually went on sale business, in 2018, I actually I remember doing some old house on the living room floor trying to figure out what we're going to name the business. And, somebody said to me, like, you'll never be able to be a contractor because your mum's, you know, it's too hard. Like, you know, you're a you just should be happy with what you've got, you know, focus on being a mum.
01:09:54:15 - 01:10:10:22
Speaker 2
Have you had to be a contractor? You need to be on site. Needs to be. Oh probably need to be there. Like, and that was into the whole my drink moment. Like don't tell me what I kind of can't do that. And again trying to prove wrong. Like, I can do that, I can I take things like the crazy, and,
01:10:10:23 - 01:10:24:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, if I wasn't with Martin, and if I didn't have his support, I probably wouldn't have ever been able to do that. It's because I did that. I knew that I could, And that's made all the difference. Really?
01:10:24:02 - 01:10:44:12
Speaker 1
That's brilliant, I think. Yeah, I think it's such an important conversation to have as well early on. If you're getting into a relationship or you know, you're thinking of, you know, starting something new, like have those open conversations, you know, if I need to be here, we need support at home or you know, we this is how this needs to work and really be on the same page.
01:10:44:12 - 01:11:04:14
Speaker 1
So important. So important. Yeah. And I'm a bit like you on that front. There was lots of. And I almost welcome them now the. Oh are you sure you want to do that. Oh I don't think that's a good idea. Or are you sure that not taken on too much? And I'm like, hold my beer. We'll have another conversation and a few minutes when I when I've sorted out, but I, almost welcome those.
01:11:04:14 - 01:11:11:03
Speaker 1
Now, you know, I'm up looking now I'm waiting for the next thing or you wouldn't be able to do that. And I'll be like, amazed at that. Gives me something. Yeah, yeah.
01:11:11:05 - 01:11:15:06
Speaker 2
You see, the posh thing you do is time, you know. Yeah. Last thing.
01:11:15:08 - 01:11:15:18
Speaker 1
I love.
01:11:15:22 - 01:11:21:03
Speaker 2
I can't I find that quite exciting. I like quite a when I think it's a good character trait to have, you know, have.
01:11:21:08 - 01:11:41:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. 101. What would you say to someone who's got the, you know, inklings of a really great idea or they really want to make the leap to, work for themselves? Maybe they're in corporate now and they've got that fear at the moment.
01:11:41:02 - 01:12:03:10
Speaker 2
You've got to have convictions. You've got to have conviction in yourself. Because if you haven't got conviction, no one else is going to have. You've got to be a think for yourself out there. I think, the way that I see the future of work going, it's going to go that way. I think we we've just covered that, you know, I think actually contracting opportunities and, and being one, one person bands is going to be so much more.
01:12:03:12 - 01:12:27:21
Speaker 2
The future work is so much more flexible. And even things like the public sector procurement roles, if you look at how that change in or have changed, the public sector are looking to use more smaller local suppliers because it's better for social impact and social value. It literally couldn't be a better time to do that. I think you've also got to think about yourself when you've got to think about, you know, you've you've probably got half, three months cash in the bank.
01:12:28:03 - 01:12:49:20
Speaker 2
So if you have a slow month or you don't get what when you need it, that you've got that er contingency, if you've got that continued say just do it. You won't regret trying, you'll regret not knowing. And the amount of people that I speak to that I have the same conversation with when we were at the workplace event the weeks ago, and somebody was saying, I'm really concerned.
01:12:49:20 - 01:13:04:07
Speaker 2
I said, come and chat to me and I'll tell you what I did, how I did it. Was it right? What did wrong? I said, just do, but just do it. Just try. And I do I do offer a lot. I probably give quite a lot of my time. Why? I was just talking people through was like, it's not.
01:13:04:07 - 01:13:18:04
Speaker 2
It can be scary, right? But it's not difficult once you've done it. Oh, that was easy. You know, like it's just a fear of the unknown. If somebody can hold your hand and make it feel a bit more comfortable, we we're lucky to be that person. For people just to is. Everybody needs a hand up at some point.
01:13:18:07 - 01:13:19:00
Speaker 2
Yeah I've had it.
01:13:19:02 - 01:13:41:07
Speaker 1
Yeah a bit of a push bit of advice to give you the confidence to do it. Yeah. It's really, really important. I think that you'll also I think people also forget that you can change mind as well. Just try and if it doesn't work there'll be other options. You can go backwards. You know, nothing needs to be forever.
01:13:41:09 - 01:13:46:15
Speaker 1
And I think sometimes people think, oh, my God, that's permanent. That's that's. If I do that, I'm stuck with that decision.
01:13:46:15 - 01:14:07:13
Speaker 2
I know everything in life is temporary. I like to think about that because if you're going through a difficult time, you won't always be difficult. It will change. Things will get better time when it's good. Don't don't be complacent. It won't always because you will have hard times. Everything get off is temporary. It's never consistent. So if you think like that, then you know you can't do something.
01:14:07:15 - 01:14:21:06
Speaker 2
If if you do it, it's not for you. You're not fired. You tried something. You've said you have to go. I've done that. You know, I actually prefer this. Yeah. And it's your mindset how you how you perceive things if you think you're fighting your way. If I refusing. Actually, I've tried out your advice. I don't like it.
01:14:21:06 - 01:14:24:21
Speaker 2
I'll come back to doing what suits me. Yeah. Different message.
01:14:25:02 - 01:14:27:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. And own that as well you know.
01:14:27:05 - 01:14:47:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. And if you say it, no one can critique you for it. If you're like, you know what I on on the biggest advocate in science. You know I got that wrong on a side to team all the time. If I've got something wrong I will say I'm so sorry. That's my I got it wrong. And I think people respect that more than you trying to be actually way through some thinking and just it's just people see straight through it just I'm just own it.
01:14:48:01 - 01:15:02:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. 100% really good message. If you could go back to 2018 and what advice would you give yourself with having all the knowledge you have now?
01:15:03:00 - 01:15:20:10
Speaker 2
Oh, that's a good question. When I was when I first started off, oh my God, is anybody going to want to pay my invoices and anybody get to want what they. So I'd probably say I have confidence, have conviction because there's lots of business out there and there are lots of lovely people to work with and learn to spot a bad egg.
01:15:20:12 - 01:15:40:06
Speaker 2
Intuition. Don't ignore your gut. Fail. You got sales, right? Yeah, all the time. Every time. For once. Definitely. Just start with a commercial bank. Don't do what I do and go for challenges because they're just not. You'll grow out of it. So go to the commercial bank. It's much easier. Find your people, find your people, and take them with you.
01:15:40:08 - 01:16:00:15
Speaker 2
So, everyone in the team at the minute are just great. I've got my best friend that works with me, my best friends in the business. My husband and I got the rest of the team that are to consider, like the really good group of people. I think you've got to find your tribe, which you've got them. You'll know if you've got if you don't think he's got that person, they're not awesome.
01:16:00:17 - 01:16:14:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. I'm personal question for me because I'm curious, because I've heard you say a lot of things that I've, I've also been reading about recently. So what would you what books would you recommend currently? What are you reading that's really helping you guys.
01:16:14:22 - 01:16:29:09
Speaker 2
Do you know that's a really good you? You're not going to expect this answer. So I and I tend to not read books. I buy books because I want to read them. I don't read them. Yeah, it's a really bad habit that I've got. And that they, I don't know, like I need to buy my mind works.
01:16:29:09 - 01:16:47:01
Speaker 2
I just, I struggle to sit still and relax. Yeah. I don't know what relaxing is. I'm, like, doing stuff all the time. Goes back to my mum's at all the pain in the house as a child because I was out for days. Then, I think that's probably why they only had one. They're like, she's enough. So there were a couple of books I've bought that I really want to read.
01:16:47:01 - 01:17:06:03
Speaker 2
I've heard amazing things about, one's called Building a Story brand, and it's all about building a brand new the story behind it. So for me, I'm like, that's going to be such a good book, and I really need to read it. I, I just have that, there is no the one that's called subscribed, and it's about how you build a business where people want to work with you and get more inbound.
01:17:06:03 - 01:17:24:18
Speaker 2
Then you have to do outbound. So at the minute, advocate we get as a business is inbound because of the way I push myself out on LinkedIn. Yeah. So what I can, I think will be some stuff in there that I need to know that would really help. And I really want to read it. I think the only book I've ever read, is called Monkey Paradox.
01:17:24:20 - 01:17:26:08
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:17:26:13 - 01:17:45:13
Speaker 2
It's about how your brain works. You've got a piece there and two pieces and how the brain reacts with different information. So when you have an emotional reaction that is one side of your brain and actually need to you need to let that happen. The other bit kicks in and then you'll have a reasonable response. But if you like that part of brain takeover, you'll just rot.
01:17:45:15 - 01:18:09:17
Speaker 2
And I found that really useful and again around mentality and how you perceive things. It's always better to sleep on something if I, if I respond straight away to something that's make me trigger, it's what it always was. And when if I were left overnight because you for about two weeks. Yeah. And again, with the mental health and stuff, I think it's, understanding that and say nine people or how they're reacting and understanding that that's what part of the brain is going to be problematic.
01:18:09:17 - 01:18:10:15
Speaker 2
It's useful.
01:18:10:17 - 01:18:18:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's some I got it's the chimp paradox. I've got that here. And also that's it. Oversubscribed I think is up here. I'm happy.
01:18:18:22 - 01:18:20:04
Speaker 2
If you got it. If you read it.
01:18:20:06 - 01:18:29:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. They they're both great. I, I'm similar to this one. I've got an audiobook it when I'm out doing something walking because I just can't, I can't, I just can't sit still. So.
01:18:29:08 - 01:18:45:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I just, I'm, I'm a pictures person. I'll read a magazine and look at stuff. If it's text, I'm not gonna. I'm not, I'm not. I'm like an instant person. I'm like, I want it now and I want to see. And you. I think if you tell me to sit and read, I'll probably start twitching.
01:18:45:03 - 01:18:53:08
Speaker 1
Then it's took me a while to get through them as well, because I'll, I'll get some nugget of wisdom from it and I'll want to implement it then. So then. Yeah.
01:18:53:14 - 01:18:54:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right. Read that.
01:18:54:17 - 01:19:10:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then I'm like right, I've got to put that into practice now, and then I'll read the next chapter. One stop. It's done. So it's yeah, it's an impatient thing, but yeah, brilliant. Both brilliant books and I think you've highlighted a great point that I think it's important, I think for business owners, like whatever you do.
01:19:10:21 - 01:19:34:14
Speaker 1
Well, everyone, really everyone who wants to achieve anything in life and, you know, make and improve on themselves, make them. That is to understand how the brain works. And I think that's been something that I've learned over the last few years like that impulse thing is, that's one of the biggest learnings I've had to do is not to react on like, this impulse, because I've got myself into trouble so many times during that time.
01:19:34:16 - 01:19:55:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, so many times, like shut up. Like my chip brain going like full, full throttle. And I've been, I've got in trouble for it and learning to just pause and go, okay, is that my emotional brain or is that my logical and then really working out? But I only got to that point by, you know, reading and understanding these things and, and and learning.
01:19:55:14 - 01:20:00:05
Speaker 1
I think curiosity plays a huge part in this not being able to I think.
01:20:00:07 - 01:20:18:21
Speaker 2
If you react the sometimes when I've regretted some think it's been because I've gone too soon. So, I probably didn't play that very well or you seismic. I wish I hadn't said it like that. And if you've got the time to think it through it and how messages are delivered, it's really important. Yeah. And I find it quite interesting.
01:20:18:21 - 01:20:33:21
Speaker 2
I mean, it's probably beyond my comprehension. Some of it, it's very clever, but, yeah, that's book I found really, really useful. Probably one of the only ones I read. Tangent is actually used as well when I was really young. Don't know why. There's only two books I've ever probably read other than uni, I know. Yeah, I've all the books to read.
01:20:33:21 - 01:20:37:07
Speaker 2
That's probably why I didn't read any more. Books are probably scarred after reading that.
01:20:37:09 - 01:20:58:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm still. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Learning and yeah is so, so important. I think we probably need to put more time in our diaries for that, you know, to understand why why we do things and how we think. What's, what's next for you, then? What are you. Well, ideally dreaming up now what? What's the next?
01:20:58:12 - 01:20:58:19
Speaker 1
01:20:58:23 - 01:21:21:09
Speaker 2
What? Immediately next is a cup of tea, I think. But, after that, so last year was explosive growth. So we grew really quickly. So we did five on five turnover in 2023. And we did 1.3 last year. So that's big growth. This year for me it's all about how we deliver and delivering. So I don't I'm not bothered about the growth element.
01:21:21:09 - 01:21:46:00
Speaker 2
I want to do things really, really well. Nice. And then thing, what's next for me? If I'm being honest, what's on my radar is, into Europe, into the US. Want to do market entry. So, Emerald said it was me. She is amazing. And we've just started, Ireland level seven strategy for her. So we're going to start to look at actually market entry.
01:21:46:02 - 01:22:07:18
Speaker 2
And how we're going to do that. And yeah, growing the technology business, getting quite a few deployments out with that and I and how that's co impact and developing. Got some really slick insights through merger and acquisition at some point. Got to do one of then there's my bucket list. Beyond that don't know I've got Planning horizon.
01:22:07:18 - 01:22:11:14
Speaker 2
Those are my things I want to do. Yeah. Oh I mean, look inside.
01:22:11:14 - 01:22:12:22
Speaker 1
Plenty to me, you know.
01:22:12:22 - 01:22:31:22
Speaker 2
Like. Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah, I've quite a lot. Yeah. Those are the things I want to do. I think after that, I don't know, I don't know. There's a lady that I follow and oh I can't remember a name. Now off the top of her head, she's, she's built and sold several businesses. She's got blond, short, curly hair with the stock pink in.
01:22:31:22 - 01:22:49:14
Speaker 2
And she's, she's doing a business at the minute called the Grafter. And that is about building skyline and in businesses that be really, really interesting to follow. But I can see there'll be a point that I've, I've done this. Yeah. What's next. And I don't know what that looks like and I don't know what that is, but I'm not naive enough to sign up to do this.
01:22:49:14 - 01:23:12:20
Speaker 2
Perhaps I because I don't think that's realistic. I think there'll be yeah, there'll be a drive in me somewhere to do something else. I quite fancy doing a red property. Maybe will say, spending some time with my boy and just traveling the world as well. I love holidays, love a good love, a good holiday. So, yeah, I've got a little mini human that I want to go and see the world with.
01:23:12:20 - 01:23:15:20
Speaker 2
So. Yeah. I'm sure that playing somewhere as well.
01:23:15:21 - 01:23:38:00
Speaker 1
Oh, I love, I'm going to bring it back to the alchemy thing to, to finish off as, as always because, yeah, it just resonates so much with me. You know, we are creating something from nothing. I think that's, you know, brave and magical. If you had a personal alchemy form formula for success, what would the main ingredient be for you?
01:23:38:02 - 01:24:00:16
Speaker 2
Oh, I think so. Based on everything we say, you've got to be resilient. You've got to be resilient. You'll have good days, bad days. You've got to learn to knock through that. I think pies if resilience, pace and. That was I confidence by with determination you've got to be able to have conviction in what you do as well.
01:24:00:16 - 01:24:14:07
Speaker 2
And I think that was probably an element of of comfort confidence a determination. So resilience conviction of pace. Amazing I think if you've got those things or if you want to get those things, yeah, you probably before unstoppable.
01:24:14:09 - 01:24:16:09
Speaker 1
Unstoppable great would.
01:24:16:11 - 01:24:24:03
Speaker 2
Write with yeah I love don't don't let somebody tell you can't do something. Hold my drink.
01:24:24:05 - 01:24:27:00
Speaker 1
I love that. Hold my beer and watch me I love that.
01:24:27:00 - 01:24:46:11
Speaker 2
Yeah yeah that's that I like that say because it writes. People say you know okay. Because it's what. So one of the things this is where this really put on when I was in hospital, paralyzed by tracheostomy and could it means, that I've done tests and electrical signals over my body. Doctor came into my.
01:24:46:11 - 01:25:04:14
Speaker 2
And really sorry the test doesn't come back with great feedback. Just like going to be paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of your life. Oh, we got really sorry. I was still paralyzed. Cry my eyes out. Couldn't even walk my own tears because I could move my arm. And, every approach took a 20 minutes.
01:25:04:14 - 01:25:19:05
Speaker 2
Half an hour, and then as well. It's not this. That's. No not accepting to. And and I don't know if you ever seen the film Matilda when she looks at stuff really hard. I just kept looking at my toes. I was like, you will these? And, after a bit, I did start to wiggle and, listen to the whole drink.
01:25:19:05 - 01:25:27:19
Speaker 2
It's a don't I? I could have quite easily gone. I kind of talked and sat there and not tried. Sedona. Sorry. What? You kind of called.
01:25:27:21 - 01:25:32:22
Speaker 1
That's incredible. I feel like I should write a book.
01:25:33:00 - 01:25:53:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, I want to do a Ted talk. I know that sounds really like, Oh. Do you want to do it? I think a lot of. I really want to do Ted talk on resilience and mental, like, you know, mental grit. I probably need a bit of coaching to get that, because I've never done that before. But, yeah, I'd love to do one to inspire people of, like, confidence.
01:25:53:16 - 01:26:00:13
Speaker 2
And, and I love not accepting what people say if it's only their opinion. It's not reality.
01:26:00:15 - 01:26:23:00
Speaker 1
Oh, you got some killer killer quotes coming out of the. And I love it. I love it, but I think we probably got loads there. But I wonder because I did some Ted talk coaching. Oh yeah. And I did a little, six months, I think it was like a six months program with, a company.
01:26:23:00 - 01:26:33:21
Speaker 1
And then we finished doing a, like a, a fake Ted talk in London and just did it with the entire team as a practice, and then they help. Yeah. Apply for the talks.
01:26:33:23 - 01:26:50:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. I really want to do. I think that'd be on my bucket list. That's probably on there somewhere. Like do a Ted talk. I could probably do at the minute. It'd be like mentality resilience and stuff like the like the amount of stress I'll go through at one and you'll never know. I think I'm allergic to it now because I think you're not dead.
01:26:50:11 - 01:26:59:07
Speaker 2
Worse could happen. But yeah, I think I could do it. And I think in the future I probably want to do one more business. Entrepreneurship grants. I'd want to do one on.
01:26:59:09 - 01:26:59:21
Speaker 1
Where.
01:26:59:21 - 01:27:02:03
Speaker 2
You know what it takes to do that.
01:27:02:05 - 01:27:05:13
Speaker 1
And be great. I, I can do an intro if you like to that I.
01:27:05:13 - 01:27:07:06
Speaker 2
Would love that. Yeah.
01:27:07:08 - 01:27:23:16
Speaker 1
He's he's great. He really helped me. I, I did apply for a couple of Ted talks. I got through to the first round of the interviews, but, to be honest, I bottled it about. Oh. Did you? Yeah. So I stopped applying and also it was at the time we were, close in the business as well.
01:27:23:16 - 01:27:24:21
Speaker 1
So I was going through a bit of an emotional.
01:27:24:21 - 01:27:26:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:27:26:09 - 01:27:32:04
Speaker 1
Something that I've always wanted to get back in, but it was a great program. So yeah, I'm happy to do an intro and Nancy see how I get there.
01:27:32:05 - 01:27:51:03
Speaker 2
I think it's really interesting around people. You know, we talked about a fear and like you need to is how you perceive it. And actually it can help you grow. Portman. But who's the lady that wants clout or is it somebody else that's got a business? And actually, I had a business that failed and I learned so much them that I'm where they are now.
01:27:51:03 - 01:28:05:06
Speaker 2
It's actually it's actually better for the long run because you learn, having been through that situation, it makes you more rounded. I think it's really to have that. It's really it's really important because if you if not, you don't. You've got experience and you don't know that.
01:28:05:06 - 01:28:21:07
Speaker 1
And I think that's where I'm coming out of now. You know I've got the point now where was that? Because I've met so many business owners who have gone through very similar things. So actually it wasn't special, which has been helpful to realize, yeah, it wasn't special situation. It was just something that happened. And then you got to pull yourself out of it and.
01:28:21:09 - 01:28:28:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's been it's been an interesting experience. But yeah, I'll, I'll put on my no, it's not doing and show.
01:28:28:04 - 01:28:51:19
Speaker 2
You one thing that happened to me last year, which I don't really talk about too much, but, my dad, my dad had about two strokes. They had a debate on the brain, and I. Blood clot. He's not the same now. And he's. He's probably on a downward spiral from that. So that was in October. I also we, you know, we were talking about people having the right people out of finance manager.
01:28:51:22 - 01:29:10:17
Speaker 2
And because we grew so quick came we've got two businesses. I think it just got too much for. And what we found that she'd been double cut in invoices in both systems. So the numbers I said, what are the actual numbers? But when the on paper they looked much higher and I was all well. And then we would obviously I did a pint of that twice because it was been.
01:29:10:18 - 01:29:31:08
Speaker 2
So we got into a really great situation last year and we were managing cash flow daily. And Emma Elsie, who's now my business manager, if it wasn't for her at the business, would have gone bust 100%. And then I had I had people that, you know, when I said, do you want people that are loyal that you call my and they go, I had I because I was going through so much challenges.
01:29:31:08 - 01:29:53:16
Speaker 2
I took honors at to not be the nastiest person. So I know this has got to work and it's got to be now. And, and I, I've got 3 or 4 people exit and in quite quick succession. And that was so difficult to get through. But I don't tell I don't put that out there because it's a bit of a sob story that, you know, that the pressure that you have as a business owner, I'm not trying to keep my business afloat.
01:29:53:16 - 01:30:04:21
Speaker 2
I've got massive cashflow issues. I've got somebody that's fucked up that we've got rid of. And then it's like, how do I invoice over it? Yeah. And then Richard's obviously a minority child. My yeah it was horrendous last year.
01:30:04:23 - 01:30:17:13
Speaker 1
Wow. Yeah. And it is it's a lot innit. And I think a lot of the attitude sometimes is oh you're so lucky to own your business. You can manage your time all you want. And anyway I was like no.
01:30:17:16 - 01:30:21:06
Speaker 2
No, I get to choose which 70 hours a week I work.
01:30:21:08 - 01:30:24:18
Speaker 1
And I don't have one boss. I have like loads because that.
01:30:24:19 - 01:30:31:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, I have clients. Yeah. Oh. Want to speak to me because they're like, no, we don't want speak to the minions. We want. Yeah, yeah. The right.
01:30:31:03 - 01:30:35:22
Speaker 1
Well yeah. So true, so true. Oh thank you so much. I'm.