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On this episode of Human Centered, host Nick Brunker welcomes back VML Chief Innovation Officer Brian Yamada for their annual post-CES download. This year, the conversation moves past the initial hype of AI to explore its practical evolution into "Agentic AI" -- technology that doesn't just generate content, but executes tasks and negotiates purchases on your behalf.
Nick and Brian discuss the shift toward ambient computing (where tech disappears into the background), the transition from companion robots to functional "butler" bots, and the exploding trend of longevity health tech. They also dive into the complex future of commerce, debating how brands must adapt when they are no longer marketing to humans, but to the machines representing them.
Nick and Brian discuss the shift toward ambient computing (where tech disappears into the background), the transition from companion robots to functional "butler" bots, and the exploding trend of longevity health tech. They also dive into the complex future of commerce, debating how brands must adapt when they are no longer marketing to humans, but to the machines representing them.
Creators and Guests
Host
Nick Brunker
Nick is a Forrester CX-Certified professional with a versatile portfolio including more than a decade of discipline in human-centered experience strategy, insight-based digital transformation, eCommerce & omnichannel planning. As part of VMLY&R’s CX practice, Nick is responsible for cultivating a deep understanding of customer motivations and business needs to deliver best-in-class experiences for our clients – and, as importantly, the people they serve. He collaborates with senior leaders to drive strategic alignment, push thinking into action, and helps architect CX measurement frameworks to achieve customer and business objectives. Additionally, he is actively expanding the agency’s industry footprint through thought leadership and IP development. During his career, Nick has partnered with various Fortune 500 clients across numerous categories, including Ford Motor Company, Google, General Mills, Fifth Third Bank, and Southwest Airlines, among others. He and his wife, Abbey, reside in Cincinnati, Ohio, with their children Nolan, Emma & Ainsley, and their ten-year-old pup, Bailey.
What is Human Centered?
At VML, it is our unique ability to integrate our BX, CX and Commerce practices - creating connected brands to drive growth - ultimately combining real customer benefits with a deep brand bond, consistently pushing to exceed customer expectations and deliver unique and generous experiences.
On Human Centered, we explore how brands – both large and small – are creating meaningful customer experiences, and discuss how professionals like you can tap into industry best practices to create value and gain traction in transforming your business.
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm Nick Bruuncker, managing director of experience strategy at VML and your host for the show. It is the start of a new year, which means the dust has settled on Las Vegas, and the tech world has finished its annual pilgrimage to CES. For our longtime listeners, you know the drill. Every year, we invite VML's chief innovation officer, Brian Yamada, to the show to decode the chaos.
Nick Brunker:He was on the ground, and this year feels different. Last year, we talked a lot about the promise of AI doing things for us. This year, we're seeing that that promise is hitting reality. We aren't just looking at gadgets. We're looking at fundamental shifts in how humans live, age, and interact with the physical world.
Nick Brunker:So how do we move from looking at cool tech to building enduring experiences? Brian is back this year again to help us figure it out. Brian, welcome back to the show. It has now become officially a human centered tradition. Glad you're here.
Nick Brunker:Thanks for making time for us. How you been?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. Absolutely. Doing pretty well. How about you?
Nick Brunker:Yeah. I think it's been great. I have been very fascinated and excited to read all about what's been going on, but even more excited to talk to you directly because as we've mentioned, we've done this every year and so we can start to see patterns unfold and it's always fun to go back and listen and see like where did Brian see things going in the year ahead this time last year? Okay. How close was he on point?
Nick Brunker:What were his predictions? Where have things evolved? Last year, you told us that the headline was the speed of evolution, how fast we were moving from generative AI to agentic AI. So standing on the floor this year in '26, did that speed accelerate, or have we hit the deployment phase? Did this year feel more pragmatic or high more than hype class?
Nick Brunker:Like, tell me your feel on the vibe overall at CES.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I mean, I I think I would tell you that it it that both are true. Meaning this this felt more pragmatic, meaning you didn't see as many, you know, concept cars and moonshot things that were like way out there. But everything got immensely better. Everything, the level of improvement across the board.
Brian Yamada:You think about all the different categories we've had for a while. We've had robots, we've had flying cars, we've had smart homes. All of them got smarter. All of them got better. All of them are starting to build and really integrate AI in powerful ways into the product, into the experience, into what's there.
Nick Brunker:Was there a sense that that this year, the best technology is starting to disappear into the background, kinda like ambient computing, or was there still some of that big flashy big screen stuff like we talked about?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I mean, there's still big screens. LG had like a paper thin television, other trifold phones. So all of that tech is continuing to evolve. But yeah, absolutely.
Brian Yamada:I think ambient monitoring is a great area that's gotten much sharper. You look at Lenovo did a huge thing at the sphere this year. And one of the things that they they brought forward was a wearable device to have your AI assistant kind of monitoring the world around you. You know? That's why OpenAI hired Johnny Ives, to try to solve for that same sort of problem.
Brian Yamada:So I think we're gonna see a lot more things that are not phones or laptops or tablets become part of of our attire, part of what you put on your head. Those still feel a little concept y to me. I don't know that we've nailed the final four. And then I I would say, like, when you talk about not not having screens, you know, that that concept of ambient computing, having other ways to collect information or even like devices without screens. Like, Lego got a ton of ton of press Yeah.
Brian Yamada:For smart play and the smart bricks, like, building it into the devices. And it's it's allowing the you know, as you're using the it's gonna sort of standard Lego brick
Nick Brunker:Yeah.
Brian Yamada:For the play to come to life.
Nick Brunker:Tell me more a little bit about that because I think for somebody who has been plugged in day to day, day in, day out, I I've heard of it. I've done some reading on it, but I'm certainly not on the ground. So if you just said smart brick LEGO, like, didn't see the news. Give us the the cliff notes version of what it is.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. So they they announced, you know, partnerships. And I think one of the reasons why it got a lot of a lot of buzz, a lot of credit is they they showed it off with the Star Wars characters and Star Wars playsets.
Nick Brunker:Nice. Nice.
Brian Yamada:Perfect for the geeks. Like, know your Rule number one. Yep. But yeah, I mean, as you put it together, there are sensors, lights, sounds that can come through. So as you're building or playing with the, you know, the X Wing or whatever is once you've once you put it together, the the toy comes to life.
Brian Yamada:I always like to joke that, you know, I feel like the sensor should be should also sense when my foot is about to hit a Lego brick that's left on the floor.
Nick Brunker:Yes. In my house, that is an occupational hazard. 100%.
Brian Yamada:It's really just more about bringing play to life and doing that in a way that doesn't require you to be in front of a computer, in front of a screen.
Nick Brunker:That's fascinating. And I do think as we look at the the different trends that that come out, there's different layers of cool factors. There's like, okay, I could see how that could just make my life easier. Or in the case of Lego, that was just downright cool. That was really neat.
Nick Brunker:And it just makes the experience of using whatever it is better. And then there's just the the crazy ways that these brands show up and actually appear at CES and then all of their physical displays even as somebody who loves customer experience and does this for a living. I'm always fascinated by the part of our business, the part of the the craft that we have in the creative space that creates these physical experiences as well. Obviously, with VML live and stuff that we we have in our our company now as as an expertise area, it's fascinating to think about that being your your day job is thinking about, well, what does CES look and feel like? Tell me, you mentioned the sphere, we'll just, you know, use that as an example and then keep riffing.
Nick Brunker:What did they do with the sphere? How did they leverage it? What were some things that were super cool about just being at the Sphere, which is obviously the big draw, for those that haven't been to Vegas that that I just gotta go see the Sphere. What was that like at CES?
Brian Yamada:So I didn't I'll start by saying I didn't make the keynote. I was still doing some tours that afternoon, but they had lines literally running through the Venetian for people to get into the space. And if you haven't been to the Sphere, it's just a massive immersive screen and environment that allows you to draw people in in different ways. Now that said, they also had CEOs of Nvidia, AMD, Intel. Had a lot of their big tech partners they brought on, I think Gwen Stefani played at the end who probably used it as a warm up.
Brian Yamada:I think she's doing a few gigs there.
Nick Brunker:Yeah. It makes sense.
Brian Yamada:But it is like, it's one of those environments. There's a little bit of a one of a kind thing to it because it's so immersive and you have this tremendous palette to play with, but it would be very different, maybe with the exception of, like, putting on VR glasses. Are really immersed into into an environment. So I'd probably say, like, the sphere is kind of it's like a gigantic shared VR experience where you're you're really in this thing that just envelops your senses in in powerful ways.
Nick Brunker:It's so cool. And it's something for me, I haven't had a chance to see it in person, but I gotta think the first time you go through it, it's gotta be pretty trippy because to your exact point, you are quite literally surrounded in 360 degrees of screen, and the the sort of depth perception you probably gain and lose at the same time has to be nuts. Yeah.
Brian Yamada:And I understand. Like, I don't know. I haven't seen anybody play with a tech, but I think that they have the capability to to direct sound to areas or seats.
Nick Brunker:Oh, for sure. That's awesome.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. Like, the sound is incredible. The visual experience grow. They're doing there's a wizard of Oz thing there now that I haven't seen. I'd I have I have caught other things there.
Brian Yamada:I haven't made it to a concert yet, but that's definitely on the bucket list.
Nick Brunker:I can't wait to get out there and try it. Maybe next year, I'll I'll hitch a ride or, you know, maybe be your carry on for the day when I when you're out to Vegas. I'd love to talk about the shift in commerce too because, you know, as much as it is a, you know, a marketing sort of, you know, technology hybrid conference, there's there's a lot of really cool ways that, know, you different brands are thinking about how commerce can be affected through all this technology. Last year, we used the example of an agent planning a vacation. Now we're seeing agents that can actually execute the booking and the buying as the technology gets more advanced and and more integrated into all of the the other things that those companies do for a living.
Nick Brunker:If I have a personal AI agent negotiating my purchases for me, does the brand relationship change as a CMO? Am I marketing to the human? Am I opting for the bot? How do you think about that? What was the conversation like that?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. So so really both are true because and the race is now on to to identify, like, which agent will you use? And everybody's talking about the tech. I think the big question there is who do you trust? Who do you trust to give you find you the best price to be objective in that?
Brian Yamada:Who do you trust to give you a recommendation on a lot of care or what have you. So I think in the cases where the brand is that point of contact, right, where somebody's coming to you to plan a trip or fight an allergy or find a car. You really have to create a customer experience that respects and values the trust that they're putting into you. And I think recognize that there's a very real tension between ease and control. And I think that it's a little bit to me like skiing, like everybody has an no shit point when they're going down the mountain and it's different for everybody.
Brian Yamada:I think that's a little bit true in this as we get into commerce. It feels like we're in the early days of e comm when before we had encryption and it still felt a little creepy to just put your credit card out on the internet. And the less you knew the brand, the less designed that experience was, the more it just gave you the sense of like, shit, do I wanna put my credit card there? And when we're talking about agentic commerce, that's a massive question. So I think there's a lot that will still need to be sorted.
Brian Yamada:The tech, the protocols are starting to roll out. UCP was announced in NRF in terms of establishing some of, let's call it the connective tissue, the programmatic ways to enable that. But I think the work that still has to be done is designing the experiences so that they work for the wide range of people that are out there. And then, consumers, when audiences are using somebody else's agent instead of yours to do the shopping, now you have an agent coming to find out your product information, your price, your all the specs. Brands are gonna be making choices around like the content, the data that they wanna keep and what they wanna distribute and what types of formats.
Brian Yamada:So the whole like machine to machine aspect of marketing, we're just on the cusp of seeing that explode.
Nick Brunker:That's crazy. And you mentioned some of the the design implications of the old days. We've spent and I've talked to Dave Altus about this, one of our CCOs here at VML, optimizing websites and apps and designing for, you know, clicks and, you know, easy paths to conversion. If AgenTic AI takes off in '26 in this same ways we've been talking about it looking like it's going to, does the visual UI become less important than the API? Put another way, how does the CX Pro design for a nonvisual customer journey when we're in that world of agents are gonna be the ones coming and trying to digest the information and then send something back?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. So I I do think it's a it's an yes, and. I I think both things are true. I I there will be times that you have a human that's coming to your digital front door. And the question at that point is, how do you serve them in the best way?
Brian Yamada:And at that point, it is a design question. Do you still have a visual UI? Is there an agentic assistant? How and where are you collecting the information in and what are the ways to present it back in the most effective way. And then the yes and is, I do think there will be more of an API level for when it's an agent that's coming through.
Brian Yamada:You don't have to worry about designing it in a way that you know, humans consume a website dataset and pages and clicks and so on. I think it'll be a faster negotiation discussion to say, well, what's your person looking for? How can I help you? And then connecting the inbound agent with the right datasets for the company.
Nick Brunker:And I think with with all this, it comes back to trust and the currency that comes with trust and with agents acting on our behalf. Did you see any brands at CES solving the trust gap? And how do consumers know their AI is acting in their best interest and not a brand's?
Brian Yamada:I I think this is still one of the big open questions and maybe the biggest open question. Part of it's trust. I think there's a different part of it that's more around the security, the control.
Nick Brunker:But
Brian Yamada:absolutely, closest that I would say in terms of trust, and I'm not sure that these companies have solved for the problem yet, or the hardware teams that are building AI PCs, AI chips, AI phones. And really what that means is that your data never has to leave, that you are in control and you're running the models locally and you've got chips that are powerful enough to solve for that, which is great. The problem is it's like the way that programming and interactions and how your data is collected with the companies you interact with hasn't shifted yet. The application layer isn't running local, it's running however the company whose app you're using decided to set that up or within the Apple or the Android environments or whatever. So the aspect of shifting from, let's call it, a cloud based mindset to an on prem, especially at a personal level, like, it's gonna be a bit before that happens.
Brian Yamada:But I think that's you're we're starting to see the precursors of let's call it the the hardware foundations to enable that feature.
Nick Brunker:The other thing, and it's it's a bit of a sidebar before we we get back to all the fun shit that you saw when you were in Vegas. The ads in ChatGPT, just as an example, OpenAI talked a little bit about it. I think most recently, a couple weeks ago, recording this in late January. So it was probably, you know, January. They were talking about where they're planning to start testing ads in in large language models like GPT.
Nick Brunker:I I just can't wrap my head quite yet around the concepts of how Google did it in the days with the big blue links, like it made total sense. It like, obviously, has become the behemoth that it is for all the reasons we know. And in LLMs, when you're just looking for an answer, No different than we were googling stuff at the time and ads became prevalent. I I'm just still curious where your head is at on. How does a model built on just back and forth dialogue and questions and answers get thoughtfully served up with ads about an answer and not inherently just potentially degrade the trust we just talked about building.
Nick Brunker:It's like if you go to a model and you expect the answers, does it degrade the the utility of using it to get an answer when it's like, I don't know. Is this really the answer or is this somebody who just paid for the answer? You know what I mean?
Brian Yamada:Well, I do. And I guess the question there is the it's the core experience versus the advertising.
Nick Brunker:And
Brian Yamada:does the fact that you see billboards when you walk into a sports arena or stadium affect your enjoyment of the game? Or in some respects, like they're putting the logos on the players. They're Totally. It's on the court. It's everywhere.
Nick Brunker:Totally.
Brian Yamada:But the game itself is still the game. And I think the challenge that all the large language models are gonna need to need to sort through is how do you maintain the integrity of the product? How do you keep trust? How do you and I think we I haven't seen yet exactly where the ads are gonna be positioned, but I have to imagine that it's gonna be similar to the way that paid search was structured. Made it clear, like these are three paid blue links and then these are the top results.
Brian Yamada:And they made it pretty clear what was advertising and what was not. And I think that aspect of design, that aspect of maintaining some of that separation is gonna be important.
Nick Brunker:And I do think in even OpenAI has it listed almost exactly that way. It's do ads influence the answers GPT gives me? No. Ads do not influence the answers. Its responses are based on what's most helpful.
Nick Brunker:Ads are clearly separated and clearly labeled. Again, the it's the same playbook that we've seen for the last twenty five years, but it's gonna be interesting in practice to see, to your point, as long as the integrity is maintained, everything's good. And the question will be, how does how does a company like a a GPT or a Gemini or whatever visually, but then also just organically create this this trust that, yes, that we're we're advertising, but you're consumed by it every day. But it's clear that when you're asking a question, you're not being told something just because somebody paid you or paid that that brand or paid for that answer, which is interesting.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I think the other the other thing that they're gonna have to sort through is what level of visibility of targeting do they want to enable? Yeah. Like, what's private and what's not? Because the way that you use a search engine and the conversations you have with an assistant are also very different.
Brian Yamada:And think those aspects are still getting absurd as well in the way that we typically, like, ignore terms and conditions over time. Like, the the our our ability to contextually control data is is pretty poor.
Nick Brunker:I'll venture a wager that we'll we'll have the the answer or at least we will start to see the answers proliferating in the next few months, if if not sooner, based on the speed in which these things are evolving. Back to CES and back to some of the technology, the thinking about from companionship to utility, the the cute factor of robot dogs and, the evolution into the, Elon Musk, humanoid robots, you know, autonomous prime or whatever it's called. Last year, we we talked about actually, I think the dementia dog and Samsung's, I think it was Bali, the robots that can provide comfort. The VML insights for '26 that we actually have posted up, at vml.com. We'll also link to it in show notes.
Nick Brunker:It suggests robots are getting more functional. They're doing chores, heavy lifting in the the home. So as as they move from pets to butlers, how does a brand inject personality into a machine that cleans your floor or folds your laundry? Is Robot CX actually a new frontier that we may have to attack in the next next year or or sooner?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I mean, it's definitely possible. I I I this is one of those areas that I I the form factors are still evolving to me. But yes, as we were saying, the capability took leap forward. Like the ability for it to have a home robotic assistant butler essentially that's folding their laundry and able to do your dishes.
Brian Yamada:That's there. Technically there now, the price point still needs to get lower, right, in terms of accessibility across all. Totally. But LG's platform was a zero labor home. And part of that is like, how do we reduce the work from you?
Brian Yamada:And robotics is a piece of that, smart devices, ambient computing, we talk about, like all of those things really working together to make sure that your home does become your castle and does become easy. So yes, solving for the manufacturers need to figure out how to solve for the right form factors and the right types of interactions. And then at some point, they may enter into a similar space that we were just talking about with ChatGPT. Like, at what point does does that remain kind of its own closed environment? Or do they try to open that up to other other APIs, other data sources?
Brian Yamada:Like if you if you wanted to have your butler help you with you know, figuring out the sports betting that you wanna do this weekend, like, tell you about the lines of the game.
Nick Brunker:That's right. Is that is
Brian Yamada:that okay? Not okay? Like, those there's there's so many possibilities, and it it adds both to the potential and to the chaos right now.
Nick Brunker:No doubt. And, I mean, I think you hit on something really interesting that, I've always been thinking about as as the last, you know, call it decade has has evolved. You know, we we have Roombas in our house. We have Alexas and, you know, the Geminis or I guess Geminis now embedded into, like, the Nest products, whatever. You get the idea.
Nick Brunker:The the agents that that are built into those as they become more more prevalent, they're everywhere. It's not it's not that they those technologies don't exist. They're just getting better. I think what's really interesting is exactly what you put a finer point to, which is what's the form factor? We're because we're seeing more humanoid robots.
Nick Brunker:But is there that uncanny valley of that's just a little bit too creepy that looks too human? Or when I say I want a butler a robot butler, I actually don't want a a Rosie from the Jetsons. I actually just want something that does what Rosie from the Jetsons does, which is clean the floors. Like, I'm just fascinated if we think that in 2026, is that an area where we're gonna see brands and companies push the envelope in that area, like like the Teslas? Or is it more let's solve the technology problem first and form factor will come later.
Brian Yamada:I mean, we're already seeing a lot of different forms, mainly on, I would say, like the industrial side and the service side. So like robotic waiters, robotic baristas, bartenders. Robots have been in the assembly line, in manufacturing, in pick and pack and Amazon. And those have massively different form factors that are built for a particular purpose. And I think the thing that we're seeing right now more on the consumer end is like, what do people want And what's it being used for?
Brian Yamada:Is it to help like an elderly person, parents stay in their home and have an assistant that can help with chores and things? It's also watching out for health and monitoring for safety. I think the we're we're still kind of in that early stage of, like, figuring out what the use case actually is, like, where the most value is. And I think that those those things will drive the form factor of the design. And I you know, my personal opinion would be, I think it would be like cars.
Brian Yamada:Like Yeah. They don't all look the same. We'll have a range of different types of form factors that solve for the different the different job speed.
Nick Brunker:I think it's that's a great point. And I I think there are industries in particular. You mentioned service and industrial and, you know, the the pick and packs that I think there's some some areas where there are obvious places where this is just gonna make great business sense on top of everything else. One area that I am actually really intrigued by is another one of the many industry verticals we touch at VML, and that's in hospitality. And you think about the the old human touch approach, like, well, that's just a nice theme into the chocolate on the pillow or the handwritten note.
Nick Brunker:And in those industries where there is value in the human touch for folks that are creating experiences, service design, for things like hospitality, if a robot is the one delivering the room service or handling the check-in, where does that human touch go? Not no real answer to the question at this point, but it's fun to just riff on it. How do we balance the automation with the hospitality and that human touch that people will pay for?
Brian Yamada:Absolutely. And, like, where how are you differentiated? You don't just wanna hire the robots and have the same experience that everybody else does or your hotel, your restaurant will feel like every other one that deploys the exact same thing. So and, you know, brands brands still need to stand out, not blend in. So figuring out what's right for the brand, what's right for where you are, whether it's luxury or economy, like all those things will factor into where and how those those get deployed.
Nick Brunker:The other big theme that we talked about last year that I imagine is still gaining as much traction as as ever is the the health care industry. And we briefly touched on health tech last year. We talked, I think, one point about a spit test that you could check your home hormone levels, but this year longevity seems to actually be the headline or at least that's what seems to be cropping up in a lot of the, the aftermath and the stories that come out. It it seems tech is shifting from tracking sickness to optimizing wellness if we use that term. What were some of the wildest examples of longevity tech to use that term that you saw?
Brian Yamada:Sure. I mean, if you look at things like the Withings body scan, which is coming out Q2, I think was the target this year. It's taking the smart scale to the next level. So you stand on barefoot, you hold a bar and it's passing, I think a light electrical current through your body. And based upon the speed that it's moving through, it's able to do a wide range of analysis of different types of body signals.
Brian Yamada:So it's your weight, your body composition, like metabolism, things like body fat index or visceral fat index, which sounds horrible. I'm not Are sure what that you hydrated or not? Your vascular age? There's so many insights that you can get and you can get it anytime you want to step on the scale and hold that bar. It's not once a year or more for some people in between going to the doctor, you're able to track a lot more information and gather more information to make sure that that health, that wellness is there.
Brian Yamada:Like even things like bone mass, muscle mass. So if you're training, if you're trying to maintain bone mass, as you're getting older, like all of those things are now becoming much more visible. And that's both because the hardware's getting better and our ability to do analysis of the signals that we're able to read from the the different types of endpoints allow for really accurate predictions.
Nick Brunker:This feels like one of those things to you that for somebody like me who is admittedly a little bit more, let's just say, in tune to what is going on in in the old body. As addicted as we all are to technology, you can really imagine a world where something like this could be immensely helpful to, you know, getting on in front of health problems, but also at the same time could completely drive somebody insane because you're like, okay. I gotta I gotta step on the scale this morning. And and, you know, historically, have been doing that for for decades. I'll step on the scale.
Nick Brunker:But it's like down to to all of those minute details of your health, that could really become an addiction in itself. Right?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I suppose everything could.
Nick Brunker:Fair. Fair.
Brian Yamada:So yes. And hopefully for people it's more of a means to assist than become overwhelmed. Right? But I think that's a little bit of every company is gonna need to figure out how much they disclose, like what type of user are you? And if you like to really get into the minutia and I just wanna get a weekly report and a nudge of some things off.
Brian Yamada:Right. Then I think they're gonna need you. That that's a great example to me of trying to tune the experience layer in a way that you understand who your user is and how they wanna see, how they wanna receive information. And actually, if all this information is causing your heart rate to go up, maybe they need to tell you that
Nick Brunker:you need
Brian Yamada:to get more rest.
Nick Brunker:Exactly. Well, I know I could tell you I need more rest, but I don't need a robot to tell me that. Yeah. But I do wanna ask, like, this is a bit of an out there question, but I I I gotta think about the the term customer lifetime value. And as people are investing and hopefully gonna be able to use these these technologies to extend their life, that changes the equation of how long people are gonna hopefully stay active.
Nick Brunker:How how do you think non health brands are watching some of these longevity trends and saying, oh, well, when we think about who we're targeting, it may change because somebody who is in their sixties is now still very much in a particular target demographic because they're more active than they were. It's I mean, it's a little bit of an out there question, but it does kinda change some of the traditional, and we'll just call it standard times of of how we would bucket somebody through their age and their other demographic data because they're living longer, and we can have the data that that proves it to be true.
Brian Yamada:So living longer, more active, more, I think, more apt to think about self care, wellness, I think in different ways than some of the generations before. So, yeah, I mean, the older I get, the younger some of those numbers sound. I I know. And I mean, I think it was was it like a Paul Rudd versus Wilford Brimley thing that was going around for a while? Was showing those two guys side by side.
Brian Yamada:It's essentially the same age. He was maybe 50 when he was doing Cocoon. 50 just looks different now. 60 looks different now than he's 70. And there are more tools for that.
Brian Yamada:So yeah, it definitely has potential to extend. And I think you already see it. Advertising has always been aspirational. And I think we're seeing active people of all ages across. So yeah, I 100% agree.
Brian Yamada:I think that lifespan will increase. I think people will, their spending years, their active years will continue to extend beyond. But I don't know, there's so much, we're in a time of change, not just technical, but like societal. How will this change work? How will this change so many different things?
Brian Yamada:Then, I mean, that it is hard to predict, like what will that mean for companies and brands, but definitely a trend to watch.
Nick Brunker:Last year, you told our listeners to stay curious as it relates to AI and get out of your bubble because it was really starting to take off and you didn't wanna be left behind. At the same time, you're reading about AI related projects. I know, obviously, not all about AI at CES, but but all of these, you know, technologies that continue to tap into all of those, very fast fastly evolving, agentic AI powered things, it's time to get tactical in a lot of ways. And and they and the AI initiatives, I think the the research was, like, 95% of initiatives failed, in the first year, which makes total sense because you're you're just trying to figure this whole thing out together. And yet here we are a year later, and we're hopefully a year smarter in some ways or just a year more advanced in some of the technologies.
Nick Brunker:Curiosity and just kind of playing around doesn't feel like it's enough anymore. So if you're a CX leader listening today or a CMO or somebody who's trying to drive change in their organization who might wanna pilot something, whether it's longevity or agentic AI strategy, what would you suggest taking the first step in 2026? Is it a data play? Is it a partnership play? What would you say to somebody who asks you those questions?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I guess where we are and where we're headed. I think it's important to I used to say maybe, I don't know, a year and a half, two years ago, like, keep your friends close and your lawyers closer because commercial safety was such a key thing. But we're past that wall. And now I think we're at a stage where you do have to identify what are the things that drive value for your organization or your audience?
Brian Yamada:Focus on those things. It's not about just like, can you use AI somewhere? That's a horrible brief. What will create value or help you capture value by putting something in place? Where can you save?
Brian Yamada:Where do you drive growth? Where do you drive differentiation? Start with a clear, what are we doing this for? And then start to move in through that POC pilot scale and make sure you're actually getting the value that you seek and that the models, the tech is actually there for that. The other big thing that I think is important, if it used to be, make sure that your chief legal officer is in line.
Brian Yamada:Today, I think we're back to needing to buddy up with the CTO and the CIO or the chief data officers, because especially with machine to machine and AgenTic and the need to really consider how and where you're distributing your datasets. Like we're cleaning up all of how your data is accessed, centralizing sources of knowledge so there's a single source of truth or product information for like the the amount I I I think are the technical infrastructure and the data engineering needs, the the the changes that need to happen there are gonna be significant over the course of this year and next to make sure that the And I think that's why you're starting to see some of the pilots fail. Some of it was lack of clear value drivers. Some of it was people in process that were getting in the way. And then, but some of it's also like, do you have access to the right data sets?
Brian Yamada:How much does the infrastructure need to change in order to make that possible? And as we get past, once you get past the value and the people portion, start you to get into, like, what is it? What do we actually need to be true
Nick Brunker:Yeah.
Brian Yamada:In terms of how we're structured, how the tech stack is structured, data stack is structured for this AI here.
Nick Brunker:And I think that's where our our VML enterprise solutions teams that are are, you know, eyeballs deep in this space have been just crazy busy in all this because what I I hear more and more or at at minimum, like, a consistent amount of noise every day is how do we get our data in a place that can actually deliver on the experience we want to deliver? Because before it was, you know, obviously experiences had design and there were executions on different digital channels. And yes, data has always been an important part, but I feel like this past year, I've heard more about how do we get as marketers and CX pros elbowed up with our data scientists and our technology teams to make sure that especially in big organizations where data can be really fragmented or at least, you know, pockets of the organization have different parts of datasets. Do you feel like this is a year where that if you're in a a position like yourself or or myself as more of a in a customer experience person, it's as important as ever to really bridge the gap between your data and technology teams, your marketing teams, your experience teams.
Nick Brunker:Because I I think without them being in lockstep, this whole thing will never work.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. You run the risk of continuing all the fragmentation. Yeah. And fragmentation just means inefficiency. Like, and one of the big potential opportunities of all this is actually getting to more centralized, more efficient ways that allow us to then focus on the things that actually differentiate and drive new growth.
Brian Yamada:So yes, I'd 100% agree. I think organizations and to a certain degree, like application development, data capture, storage management, were sometimes a function of the org chart.
Nick Brunker:Yeah, totally. Totally.
Brian Yamada:And a lot of those things weren't designed for where we are. They were just kind of built, inherited, accumulated over years. So is like the hard part is you also just can't say, let's tear it all down and start fresh. Totally. Totally.
Brian Yamada:You have to figure out how to pragmatically move from where you are. And I think that's why that focus on value is such a key piece is making sure that you understand like, okay, in order for this to happen, especially at an enterprise level, then what are the things what do we what are the data things that need to be true, the tech and the infrastructure things need to be true to enable that that allows you to create the business case and justification to pull that forward.
Nick Brunker:You were pulling on the the the legal threads and all of our friends that are are trying to figure out how to how to do this in a safe, ethical, and obviously legal way. Were you hearing anything about a shift around how companies were talking about protecting the customer and the data? I mean, it's it's obvious and it's it's not going to be a topic that goes away. Do you feel like we're getting closer to a way where it can be wrangled thoughtfully, or is this still feel like the wild west out there in terms of privacy?
Brian Yamada:I I wish I had a different answer, but it still feels like we're in the wild west. And the regulatory terms and conditions, none of that's keeping pace with the rate of change. To be fair, it's hard for anybody to keep up with that rate of change. But from a technical standpoint, we actually have the tools to allow us, like individuals, to have more contextual control of the data, like who you want to provide data to and in what ways. But we run into the same sort of key questions exist there.
Brian Yamada:Like one, who do you trust to manage that on your behalf? And two, what's the business model for it? Would you pay somebody to control that? Or do you trust that Apple will or Google For sure. And Android?
Brian Yamada:I think on the promising side, the technology is there to enable. We had to figure out where is there a need? Or on the if you wanna get to the scary side of it, will we hit some some major incident bad press that forces us to all rethink? Like, holy crap. No matter how much information am I just throwing out into the wind and how much more control need needs to be put in place.
Nick Brunker:Well, it does feel like at at minimum, unlike maybe the early days of the Internet and as it it evolved into to ecommerce where there was sensitive data flowing out there, people are way more aware. People are way more in tune with the fact that they're they are when they're putting something into Google or OpenAI, it's it's out there. Or or I guess maybe at least in theory, it should be something that people are aware of. Do you feel like that there there is still a kind of a blind optimism that, yeah, I'm I'm in I'm talking to chat GPT. It's fine.
Nick Brunker:And without really thinking about the ramifications, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I mean, if you think about the you know, we're talking before about the pins, devices are collecting information in an ongoing way. You have wearables that are tracking all different types of metabolic activity on a regular basis. You have cameras that are able to actually read and collect information in a variety of new ways. And we're starting to get to new different types of wearables, different interfaces that are moving through.
Brian Yamada:And in theory, they're there to help us with operating the environment around us. But these are also devices that can actually inform like, how did you react to that commercial? Or to this TV spot? Or how much did they enjoy that meal when they're sitting in a restaurant? And so I'm not sure that people really think about it.
Brian Yamada:We're so callous at not reading the terms and conditions, you just scroll the bottom And the right now the terms are getting expanded to allow for a wider range of data inputs that are there. And we don't really have good ways. When I say contextual control, like I think it would be odd if my car asked for my blood pressure or my heart rate. But if it says, actually, Brian, what I'm trying to do is just calm me down if you're getting pissed off and the traffic's bad, and I'll suggest another route, or I'll change the station on Spotify to something that'll be a little more soothing. So that aspect of like, yes, I would give information if I know what's in it for me.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. But we don't have good controls to allow for that type of exchange to happen yet. The tech is there, the experience layer, and who's providing that is not really set
Nick Brunker:And that last part you put, I'll just use the vehicle example where if you're able to determine that we have this technology, we can measure this this data point. You you mentioned blood pressure or stress levels or whatever it is. You made a very important distinction there, which is as we collect that data, there has to be a way to to communicate it back to the customer or the owner or whatever that this is the benefit. Like, it's it's all about benefit first. Like, the technology is just a means to an end.
Nick Brunker:Like, we're we're trying to make your drive home more relaxing, simplified, whatever it is. Like Yes. I I am fascinated by that fact. And then to say, what is the spectrum of of tolerance that somebody has to say, yeah, sure. I'll give you my I'll let you track my heart rate while I'm in my vehicle.
Nick Brunker:Like, what is that trade off Right. Fulcrum point gonna be that somebody says, yeah, you totally have my blood sample or my heart rate or whatever. You know? It's crazy.
Brian Yamada:Yes. And there is and and that's the tension of convenience versus control. Right. So if I have to ask you every time, like, is this okay? Is this okay?
Brian Yamada:Is that okay? Can I have this data? Can I have that data? At some point, you're gonna be like, just shut the hell up. I don't wanna think about it.
Brian Yamada:But we still need to give people that contextual control. And that is one of the critical design questions Well is how how we solve for them.
Nick Brunker:And conversely, the fact that, okay, let's just go back to the alt other side of the of the coin where it's it asks you for your your heart rate. I'm just a good picking on that one as an example, and you say, yeah, that actually would be good. I I get pissed pretty much every day when I'm in the car or I'm on the train or whatever. Yeah. That's fine.
Nick Brunker:Go for it. It it becomes a set and forget. So if I'm like, it's there and it's always been there and I gave it the per the first time permission, it would easily and it probably does, unbeknownst to me, just sit in the the laundry list of data that I've allowed these different brands to access. How does one maintain, you know, somewhat level of of control over? Yeah.
Nick Brunker:It was fine. Right. I enjoyed it. It was great. But now I I don't want it to be able to track that, or I don't want it to be able to track that to do this other thing.
Nick Brunker:And that's where I think I my head starts to spin about what are the experiences need to look like in order to enable the use of all these amazing technologies and the amazing experiences they unlock while also giving the control back to the customer. It's crazy. It's crazy.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. That's why we're still catching up. Totally. We're still we're still trying to figure out how to make sure that design aspect of control, the the way that that all this comes to life is still still foreign.
Nick Brunker:Alright. A few fun facts, rapid fire questions from from CES. The vaporware award. And you don't have to name brands. You could just name product if you want to.
Nick Brunker:What was one thing you saw that you are 100% sure is never gonna actually launch?
Brian Yamada:Oh, the I'll I'll just give you the one that's most, like, fun and frivolous because actually this technically has launched. But there's a a lollipop that had used bone conduction so you could hear music. What? Yeah. So it had like, you know, a a little battery and then it worked similar to the way like bone conducting headphones did.
Brian Yamada:But instead of you wearing headphones on your head, you would just, you know, put this lollipop in your mouth and in in the loud environment before, you had to actually plug your ears to hear it. But yeah, you can hear a song. Now it wasn't it wasn't a connected device. It wasn't smart. It could be.
Brian Yamada:Probably could be price point. Yeah. But, yeah, it's one of those, like, what do you do with that?
Nick Brunker:An $82 lollipop.
Brian Yamada:Actually, I think it was $8, but it was already selling on eBay for, like, 150.
Nick Brunker:Of course it was. Of course. And somebody it's it's the three prototypes that they made. Three in the world. You can listen to tunes.
Nick Brunker:That's hilarious. Alright. You can't go to Vegas without having amazing food. The Vegas food scene just is crazy. Where did
Brian Yamada:you eat? So lots of great places on and around the the events. Actually, the meal that was most enjoyable is we got off the strip and went into a Koreatown and grubs. Yeah. That was great.
Nick Brunker:That's awesome. Alright. Last one, and then we'll let you go. The buzzword ban. What is one word you heard 10,000 times on the floor that you never wanna hear again this year?
Brian Yamada:Yeah. I keep hearing agent, agent, agent over and over and over again. So and it it all it gets gets muddled with agentic.
Nick Brunker:Yeah.
Brian Yamada:People people are using agent as it and they're kind of using them interchangeably. So, yeah, I'll be happy when I don't have to hear the word agent anymore. Although I'm not sure what the word would be that replaced.
Nick Brunker:I was gonna say you're gonna have to kind of for maybe another episode, agen tech versus agent. What does it actually mean? That could be a whole discussion in itself that I'm sure you've done keynotes on many times, but alright. No no more agents for me the the rest of the year, or at least I'll try. Brian, it's great to see you as always.
Nick Brunker:Thanks for being the eyes and ears on the ground. And best, part of it all is that we don't have to take the 20,000 steps you took ourselves. So thanks for doing it for us.
Brian Yamada:Yeah. Sure. Yeah. It's a little bit it's always both an interesting and slightly exhausting way to start here.
Nick Brunker:How many did you do? Did you track your steps? Not to to hang on that note, but did you did you actually track how many you got over the course of
Brian Yamada:the week? I honestly haven't looked because I went right from CES to NRF.
Nick Brunker:Of course you did.
Brian Yamada:So literally from one to the other. Yeah. Right. So I'd I'd it was one of those I'm maybe the opposite of you. I didn't wanna know.
Brian Yamada:Exactly. Just didn't wanna see how how much it was.
Nick Brunker:No rest for the weary, my man. Thanks again for the time. We'll talk soon.
Brian Yamada:Alright. See
Nick Brunker:you. To our listeners, we've linked the full VML CES twenty twenty six trends report in the show notes. It dives deeper into robotics and longevity aspects we discussed. We'd also love to hear a feedback on the show. Give us a rating wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon, and more.
Nick Brunker:If you have a topic idea or wanna connect with us, reach out to me on social at Nick Brunker is the handle or email the show. It's humancentered@VML.com. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.