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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: Welcome back to
circling the drain. Johnny B,
here, over there. Jay Harper,
Oh, I hear my name. You okay?
Johnny B, good. Jay, oh, man,
man, I haven't seen you in such
a long time. It's been like two
days.
It has been two days where y'all
been. Yeah, a
little behind the curtain stuff.
I mean, normally, when we record
these, there's a good elapsed
amount of time, but man, we just
like we're knocking them out.
Yeah, we are when we and we just
want to be around each other
more.
Well, speak for yourself. Jim,
how
are you?
Well,
thanks, Patrick.
I'm
going hatless today.
Yeah, no,
yeah, you are hatless,
yeah, showing the co op.
Yeah, that's right, you're a
striking man. Looks like you
could have come from California,
maybe, like
all these people that are
invading the sea area.
I came from LA east,
which is
essentially Las Vegas.
Well, you know, I kind of came
from LA Laura, Alabama.
I came from LA, Louisiana,
that's right. So all of us,
yeah, yeah, I never really
thought about
but have you guys? I mean, have
you experienced living around
our new transplants that have
come in from?
Well, there certainly seems to
be a bigger influx of them here
in the last, I don't know, five,
six years, for a variety of
reasons. But, you know, I first
moved here in 1985 from LA,
Louisiana.
Yeah,
and the the migration was, was
happening then,
yeah, it was, but it's more so
now.
Oh, by all means, I think, for a
variety of reasons, back when I
first started noticing it, back
in the you know, well, mid 80s,
when I arrived and you got here
before I did, but it was
primarily the main reason was
because I was working MCA
Records, so I was kind of in the
middle of the of Being aware of
what was happening, music wise
and musician wise, and session
players and that kind of thing,
people like David Hungate, who
exactly, yeah, correct, correct.
You know, he's an old toto guy
with Toto, but because the music
was changing so much
yes
out west in LA, and had really
started to, you know, those guys
were aging out of the music
scene.
That's true
in LA,
that's very
and, you know, things had gone
so technical and electric and in
such that, you know, the great
instrumentalist Bill Cuomo, whom
we have, yeah, I mean, he's a
prime example.
Yes, he is. But
bill's not your typical
Californian. He know, he's a
good guy.
He is. Well, I mean, there are a
lot of people that have come
from California that I like,
Oh, of course. I was just joking
there. But there
are some. There are some I've
got, I've got neighbors. Now
they built this human in fact,
what we used to have where we
live, it was just mostly
farmland, like right across the
street from us, was this huge
farm, you know, just pasture had
cattle all over it, you know, an
old barn that was barely hanging
on. And that's
probably one of the reasons you
moved out there, is you like you
like that tranquility.
Oh, we did. We loved it. And
then all of a sudden, in the
past, I'd say, four or five
years, all of a sudden, they
first, they knocked down all
these trees. There were, like,
hundreds of trees just right by
this farmland that kind of
covered it up. Well, they burnt,
they knocked them down, burned
them all. And of course, then
they started building all these
human I mean, they're not just
building homes. They're building
humongous, two and a half, $3
million homes everywhere,
mansion, yeah.
McMansions, how close are you to
the grove? To the grove? I'm I'm
on the poor side of college
grove. Well, not anymore. I used
to be the poor side. Now we're
just the poor and amongst the
rich, but we're probably, we're
just over the hill from from the
grove where they play golf and
all that. Yeah, but yeah, it's
beautiful area. But this new guy
that's moved in, and I did some
background on this guy,
I Googled, oh, wow, you can do
that.
Oh, unbelievably, you can just
Google somebody's name and,
boom,
what is this? Of which you speak
the Google, yeah.
So you were able to, I mean,
this person popped up on Google
and, well,
you know, I looked up who bought
the house.
Yeah, you can do that, man. You
can go in and look at property,
everything, everything.
So I looked this dude up. And,
you know, he came from
California, of course, and he
was a big, big Republican out.
There he he was involved in a
lawsuit against Hillary Clinton.
He also was very instrumental in
getting Donald Trump on the
ballot and getting get people
behind him. So
initially you would think, well,
I might dig this. Yeah, you
might be an okay guy.
But you know, I've nicknamed
these people the Duttons,
because they act like they own
the entire neighborhood. He has
these two dogs, a German
Shepherd and a husky, and they
roam. He just doesn't. He
doesn't walk them like most
people do on leashes. He just
sets them loose and they're all
over your yard. Well,
those poor animals are gonna get
hit. They're gonna get run over.
Well, they're gonna either get
run over or, you know, coyotes
are abundant out there. Says,
and they're gonna meet those,
yeah, but, but what really gets
on your nerves that the dogs are
a nuisance, and then he has a
dune buggy that he cranks up and
he,
you mean, like an ATV that
he's side by
side. Yeah, it's like, it's like
a little pipe buggy, and it's
loud.
I was gonna say it's probably
Gas, gas powered, so it's gonna
be loud,
very loud. And he also, I mean,
he'll, he'll go anywhere on it,
including other people's
property, looking for these
dogs.
Yeah, that ain't very smart in
these parts. Ain't smart in
these parts. And old John Dutton
up there, but that's what's
getting on my and I've talked to
animal control about the dog.
No, we'll talk to him. Yeah,
yeah. Williamson County, yeah,
they're not gonna talk to
anybody that's got two now, talk
to me if I had two dogs.
Yes, Mr. Boseman, we need to
have a yes. We do what's
your
home worth before
we have this conversation.
But that's, that's the only part
of and I've heard this from
other people too, that they're
noticing a lot of times, that
people that have moved here from
California kind of just expect
us to adhere to their habits.
I mean, is there, like, this
sense of entitlement that you're
picking up on?
Well, a little bit. I mean, I
would, because when we moved out
there, we were very low key. We
didn't try to enforce our
lifestyle on everybody out
there, you know, and I tried to
stay out of everybody's
business. But this cat man, he
is. It's like he moved in and
all of a sudden, well, this
whole place is mine. Now I'm
king of college grove.
Is it something? Maybe he just,
well, this is the way they do
things out here. Maybe that
isn't.
It could be what? It could be an
assumption which is false of oh,
this is out in the country. I
can let my dog roam free, right?
True? Yeah,
you should never let your dogs
roam free. There's, there's a
problem.
He just doesn't know better,
ripping
well. I mean, if he had, you
know, 45 acres,
yeah,
yeah, then you could probably
let your dogs run loose
and they're your own acres.
Yeah, they're yours. They're
not, they're not neighbors,
right? But,
yeah, that's one thing I've
noticed, is that some of these
transplants are kind of acting
like, you know,
well, we're not the only area,
the only state, excuse me, that
has been, well, it
was
gonna, I was gonna say a victim,
but I maybe don't know if that's
the right word, a victim of
these transplants. I mean, you
know, Texas, Florida, South
Carolina, a lot of these types
of states are seeing Oklahoma,
the influx of these folks,
especially the no income tax
states,
yes,
like a Tennessee and a Texas and
a Florida.
Well, they're escaping too. I
mean, I can understand anybody
wanting to leave California,
beautiful state, but, oh,
I know it is gorgeous,
being run by absolutely insane
leaders,
yeah, and it's, it's been
happening for a long, long time.
You know, half my family from
California, my mom was from
California. And you know, even
though she's been gone now 11
years, even way back when she
used to lament over how
heartbroken she was about what
has happened to just her
hometown. Yeah, which was
Monterey, California?
Oh, yeah.
You know, beautiful old fish
fishing village at one time. You
know, overwhelmingly Italian. My
mom was 24 karat Italian,
yeah,
and it was just this warm,
loving community where
everybody, you know, the cliche,
everybody knew everybody,
yes,
well, that was pretty true,
because everybody was related to
everybody,
yeah,
you know, everybody had 10 kids,
and you know, it was just as we
always say, was a different
time. Yes,
it was.
But, you know, she lamented over
how the, you know, the
developers had moved in and had
knocked down all you knows, like
music wrote,
oh,
knocked down all those nice old
homes and put in the, you know,
the seven. Elevens and the dry
cleaners, you know, well, and
these condos,
the condos that look like they
came out of East Berlin, yeah,
it's been an ongoing process out
there. And then the, you know,
just the political climate. I
mean, every day we're hearing
about these multi gazillionaires
that are ditching California. Oh
yeah. And many of them headed to
Florida because it's, you know,
so beautiful. They want to be on
the water.
Oh yeah.
But then they realize it's
Florida, and they come up here,
yeah?
Well, and I know, you know, I
lived in Charleston, South
Carolina for a number of years,
which is a great area, and it's
suffering the same type of
thing.
Yeah,
it was a small kind of
Californians and New Yorkers.
It's both, but you're really
right. A lot of New Yorkers that
would go down to Florida for
winter, you know, the snowbirds.
I
want to live there. But
halfway to Florida, they would
stop in Charleston or, you know,
somewhere along the Carolina
coast,
sure.
And then it was like, why are we
going to Florida? Let's just
stay here. It's cheaper, it's
not as crowded, so on and so
forth. But now it ain't that
way. It's, you know, it's
expensive and it's crowded and,
you know? Well, I've even found
changes,
yeah, I've even found out that,
you know, my hometown of
Wichita, Kansas, there's a small
town that's east of there, where
I went to school Andover, and
somebody was telling me that,
and a few years ago, I went to
went back there, and I couldn't
recognize Andover. There were so
many businesses, so many it used
to just be a little farming
community. And now I'm being
told that the majority of people
that live in Andover are the
very wealthy.
Oh, really,
I dare say, they really, they
found they love, they love the
planes out there. Where's
Dorothy? I dare say it's
like Montana. I mean, yes,
Montana,
huge draw for a lot of wealthy
what's Coeur d'Alene in Idaho,
Idaho,
and there's an area, and I'm
drawing a blank on the area,
because I produced a concert in
in Idaho, and it was in October,
I remember that, and it snowed.
And, gosh, I'll think of the
name of it, but anyway, it is a
community where a lot of the LA
elite have homes and and, gosh,
that was 40 years ago when I was
there. Well, maybe about 3035,
years ago, I guess. But you know
it was even happening there, so
this And granted, though, I
think a lot of that were maybe
second and third homes for some
of these people. But now you've
got people that are just
vacating California all
together.
Yeah. I
mean even in Zuckerberg, yeah. I
mean
Florida,
yeah, you know he's Starbucks,
yeah, from up in Seattle. And
yeah, well, there
was a huge migration out to
California. What in the 70s,
80s? Yes, you remember that?
Yeah, I do. Because my father,
my family, entertained the
notion of moving out there. I
almost became a California Wow,
when I was a kid. Why not my
father? Yeah,
yeah. There were times when I
explored that too, just for when
I was a younger guy and single
or whatever, about venturing out
that way just to explore the
voiceover.
Yeah,
work, and it is still somewhat
of a but depending on what you
want to get into, if you're
wanting to get into animation
and, you know, movie voiceover
kind of stuff, that's still can
hear that that is still the
Mecca, because it's so union
dominated,
yeah,
but some of that is starting to
branch out. Canada is giving a
lot of that kind of
stuff. All the Marvel movies
were made in Georgia,
yeah, Atlanta has
become a big South
Carolina is giving a lot of
Louisiana as well. You know, the
lot of these states, they're
offering up all these big tax
incentives,
exactly,
and the union work out in LA,
from a movie standpoint, I've
got a real close friend,
lifelong friend, that I've known
since the seventh grade. He's
been fairly successful in the
movie biz as a screenwriter and
whatnot. And he got out of
California because it was just,
he just couldn't take it, and he
was starving to death. First of
all, because the cost, even
though he was making pretty good
money,
oh, that's the thing,
the cost of everything was just
driving him out. And again, the
landscape changing. If we ever
really want to talk about the
movie landscape and such, I
need, we need to have him on the
podcast, because he's like up to
his eyeballs and all this. David
Dubos is his name, but anyway,
but as he had told me. We just
had this conversation, in fact,
that the union writers and
whatnot, they are frustrated
things are just moving out of
California because the unions
are strangling everybody out of
work, and you but you can't work
unless you're a part of the
Union. But the union membership
is frustrated that they have to
join the union to get work. But
the work isn't coming like it
used to because of the unions.
Yeah,
it's It's insanity.
Yeah, it is insanity. And you
know what really makes me sad
about what's happening to us
here is that Nashville, to me,
used to be a very unique town.
Reason I fell in love with it.
It wasn't too big, but it wasn't
too small, either. It was just a
perfect medium sized city. It
had a very unique vibe about it.
I love the music, and I loved
working on Music Row,
the openness of it.
It was at that time. I mean, I
watched so many hit songs being
written. I mean, before they
were even, you know, dedicated
to vinyl. I'm watching
songwriters come but one was
still doing time by George
Jones. I saw that being written.
I saw so many hit songs being
written, and got to hang out in
in, you know, like publishing,
publishing houses, and of
course, they were all in homes.
But it was really cool. It was a
very cool vibe, and that I just
saw that slipping away as time
went on, and it really made me
sad, because Nashville had just
this great vibe of, I mean it, I
can't describe it. It was just
cool. I looked forward to going
to work every day because going
down to Music Row was so much
fun, and it was wild. Everything
started falling apart right
around the Telecommunications
Act happening,
yeah,
it really did.
It did
96 right?
Yeah,
yeah.
Well, in fact, Nashville, I saw
changing. I actually went down
to Birmingham to work in radio
down there, and stayed there for
two years and got home sick for
Nashville, came back in 84 and
just the two years away, I saw a
huge change, like you weren't
being allowed into like I went
to Cedarwood publishing, because
I used to hang out there all the
time. Well, this time it was,
you know, you can't come in,
yeah, everything changed. So, so
it really started,
was it when everything got
rockified? La Shania, Twain, and
that
news before that, I want to say
84 was more around the Oh,
really
Yeah, was, wasn't? It was just
around the time of Urban Cowboy,
I think, well, urban cowboys,
Urban Cowboy, hit 7980
right? It was after that, that
right?
And like, say, I came to
Nashville in 85 and there was
still some old Nashville here
then, but, yeah, it was the
transition was happening. And
it's interesting, you say that
you still saw a huge difference
from 77 to, you know, then you
laugh, because you got here in
77 right, then came back and
came back, 8485 in there, and it
had already had a massive
change. That's interesting,
because for me, it seemed like,
and we, everybody mentions this,
and there's truth to it. I mean,
when they built the arena, then
the predators came, yes, then
the Tennessee Oilers slash
Titans came. We just became a
different city.
We did,
in many ways, a good way, at
least as far as entertainment
and that sort of thing goes,
Sure, you know, when, when I
moved here, I was surprised that
there really wasn't a nice size
venue for shows.
No, that was the big,
I mean, the opry house at 44,000
or whatever it was, you know,
there at Opryland was kind of
like the biggest thing I get.
You know, Murphy. I mean, when
Elvis played Nashville. He
played Murfreesboro,
yes,
because the MTS, you said,
Murphy center,
yeah,
held, you know, a bigger
size and people,
yeah, spring played
bigger size. Crowd.
Was it the big round
one now,
auditorium, which, you know,
that
place is, it's a dump in our
notes,
welcome. Yeah. Back in those
days, it wasn't
Yeah, but yeah. But the time the
80s and 90s rolled around, you
know that that place wasn't up
to, up
to stand? Well, yeah, they
didn't. They didn't improve it
in any way.
Hey, you know it was good enough
for the wiggles. When I saw,
yeah, it was, it's good enough
for a Harlem Globetrotters. But,
yeah, my wife made an
interesting and it turned out to
be true. But whenever we had the
2010 flood, she said, this is
when the town's really going to
change. You're going to see it.
It's going to not be the same
place you knew. Before. And she
was right. It seemed like we did
change after the flood.
Yeah, I was not here. Then, were
you not here for the big 20 I
was in the car. You were lucky.
I, you know, I still was very
connected to a lot of people
here. And I heard, you know, I
yeah, I know it was, it was
dreadful.
It was dreadful. I remember Joe
Lombardi telling me stories.
They had to go. I think they
broadcast out of the WSM tower
in Brentwood. Yeah, because,
yeah, because everything else,
everything was flooded, yeah,
because they were in the opry
area. It
was, well, I remember I couldn't
get to because when it was
started happening, I thought,
Well, man, I better get to the
station. It was like, everywhere
I went, I went crap, I can't go
anywhere. Yep, and it was off.
In fact, one person, it was a
kid named John mounts, who was
our assistant program director.
He did all the broadcasting and
did a great job. He
was a, I mean, that dude was
dedicated.
Oh, John mounts, you talk about
a great radio guy, and he's
younger than me, and he's one of
the young people that I truly
respect, because that we told
them when cumulus let John walk
out of the building, we told
them how foolish they were
being, but you should have paid
this guy whatever he wanted,
because he knew How to engineer
the place he knew about talk
radio. I mean, this guy knew
every inch of radio. I mean, he
was just a
radio person of radio people.
Yeah, exactly. But it's been sad
though to watch Nashville
change. I mean, there's some
there's some good things that
have happened, but I just hate
seeing Nashville become like any
other city? Well, yeah, they're
big. And,
you know, so many people don't
realize that Nashville attracts
all different types of industry.
It isn't just music, no. So you
had a lot of folks that have
come from Atlanta for the
insurance business. Insurance is
huge here.
Well, in fact, I was told when I
first moved here in 77 the
number one and number two
businesses were not music. It
was insurance. Was number one.
Number two was healthcare,
exactly, yeah. And I think
that's still pretty much the
case,
yeah. I think
Hartford is known for insurance,
not insurance. Yeah, yes,
insurance, yeah. And that was a
big town for I mean, they're,
like, known as the insurance
capital of the world. I didn't
realize Nashville is known for
insurance. Yeah, they're known
for it. It's just
so many of those Atlanta
companies and financial services
also very big in Nashville. But
so many, again, these companies
getting out of Atlanta, because
it's Atlanta and then and coming
up here and turning Nashville
into Atlanta, yeah, turning
it into California.
Yeah, I know that's what I was
that's what I was gonna say. I
mean, there's certain concerns
about that. People escaping
California for what's going on
there and bringing that crap
here.
Well, it's like when they, you
know, when in college Grove we
had this, they put up this
restaurant, and I forget the
name of it now, I think it was
called sip and scoop. But
anyway, yeah, these people were
from California, and they
brought California food here.
Avocado did, and
it was funny, because
avocado toast, Johnny, would you
like?
Would you like some pinkies
aren't raised,
Johnny, I dare say, Johnny,
you're not, you're not cultured
enough to be in our
establishment. But no they so
they had pizza, and we ordered
some. And it was very funny,
this lesbian couple comes in to
this little restaurant, and one
of the girls looks at me and
goes, What's that pizza like?
And I said, Well, it's nothing
like what pizza would be in the
South. I said it's very light. I
said it doesn't have a lot of
and she and she, they left after
I said that. They said, that's
not what we want. We want to
eat, but yeah, you can't. And of
course, the restaurant
eventually went bust.
Go figure.
Yeah,
yeah, you
can't bring and that was their
whole spiel. We're going to
bring a little California to
Middle Tennessee.
That's the thing is that
California does have a lock on
really good food. Yeah, their
Mexican food is is really good.
The
Mexican food is good.
We lived out in Vegas. One of
the first experiences when I
realized I was far from home,
was going across the street to a
California pizza place for the
radio station. I was going to
get some lunch and bring it back
to the apartment, where core
apartment where Courtney was
unpacking and moving us in and
nesting and all that fun stuff.
And first thing was that I
noticed was like, on the menu,
it showed all their locations,
and every single one of them was
in California, Nevada and
Arizona. And I was like, Holy
crap, I am a long way from home
and and. They charge, I think,
$26 for a pizza that was roughly
10 inches in diameter.
Oh, wow. And
I was going, What the crap is
this? You know?
Oh, I hear you,
yeah.
It's like, first time I ever ate
up in New York, and you get this
plate. And I don't know what it
is about rich folks, but they
just love, you know, they love
small portions.
Yeah, they like, really small. I
was like,
and paying through the nose for,
yeah. I was like, What is this?
You know, I'm used to the south
man
copious amounts.
Yeah.
I mean, not seeing us, we're
obese.
Yeah, it's reason we have
bellies down here. Can't
find the meat. And three New
York, and that's, that's that's
the one thing that stood out to
me when I moved here. And again,
I'm not a Californian by any
stretch of the imagination. I'm
originally from Connecticut.
Don't hold it against me, but I
think after 21 years, I am
considered a Tennessean.
You are.
But I moved here in the heyday,
I want to say, or at least
probably the lagging days of
heyday. Dumb, yeah. We moved
here in, oh, five, and Dave took
me. He's like, You got it's a
Nashville thing. It's a meat and
three I go, Okay, it's a meat
and three veg. Okay, well, do
you have three vegetables? No,
no, no. It's you pick a meat and
then you pick, like, potatoes,
corn bread, or, you know, I'm
like, well, those aren't
vegetables. Well, they have
vegetables too, but they're,
like, completely overcooked, you
know, string beans and carrots
and whatever. But, you know, no
semblance of nutrition
whatsoever in them.
No. A lot of bacon in them.
A lot of bacon, you know. And
I'm going, I could see the
appeal, but dude, I can't, I
can't eat here, like, every
other day. There was a guy in
the station that ate that one of
those every
Oh, yeah,
every single day,
yeah. We used to have one like
that too. And as the
engineer,
he would have grease on his
Yeah, on his shirt when he came
to work. Johnny,
do you remember the Sylvan Park
restaurant?
Yes, I
that place. I mean, it was
fantastic.
Yes, it was,
we used to MCA. We, you know,
all pile in one car and head
over there for lunch, pretty
regular. And it was also, it was
also it was, there were a lot of
characters, yes, that that were
there most the wait staff, more
than anybody, you know, a bunch
of older ladies,
yes,
that had no patience for
anything,
you know. You used to have to
literally stand in line, you
know, to get in there, and you
would sit with other people at
the table.
Sure, yes,
you know it, yeah,
there's a lot of places like
this.
No table was going to have an
empty chair, right? They
wouldn't allow that. It's like,
you know. So that was very
common where, you know, maybe me
and another guy from the
promotion staff, David Haley,
God, rest his soul. He and I
would go a lot of times, and we
would sit at a foretop with two
other people, two total
strangers, almost
like monells up in Germantown.
Yeah, yeah. You have to sit with
those family strangers, yeah,
yeah, you're sitting with
strange, and you get to meet
people that was truly, really
cool. But
I can remember, there was just,
there was so much personality
and quirky stuff there. The food
was fabulous, and the the
chocolate pie was excellent.
Yeah, start
on chocolate
pie. And I can remember, you
know, if you people that didn't
know any better, they would
stand in the door and leave the
door open while they're waiting
in line.
Yes,
oh, man,
you don't do that.
Polishing door. You let me fly
so. But you know, the food was
wonderful. But I will say,
though, that was one of my
complaints about Nashville when
I first got here in the 80s. Was
it there? The the fine dining or
the really good restaurants
there? There weren't many. No,
there really
weren't. That is one of the good
things that has changed.
Yes, there
are a lot of really good
restaurants.
Yes, in
Nashville, it's become very
cosmopolitan.
Oh, very much,
very
much so and
talking through your
team, you have to look down on
people. Oh, my God, I don't want
to hang out with the commoners.
If I have to, I will.
You mean you were in radio,
yeah.
Well, it's funny. You say that
when I was previous marriage, my
wife then was really into, you
know, being part of the upper
echelon, so we go to this party.
Oh, God, it was awful. It was in
Bell Meade. Oh, it was Belle
Meade money. And so there's this
banker, and he was obviously
attracted to my wife, because he
was really hitting on her, and
his overweight wife was dripping
with jewelry. And she said, What
do you do for a living to me?
And I said, Well, I'm in radio.
She said, Charlie, make.
Alexander. We had dinner with
him one time, and he said only
poor people work in radio. She
actually say that she did what?
Well, you know she get wrong.
She's Bullseye old Nashville,
but you know that, but that
surprises
a lot of people. Don't you find
that? What's that?
People that don't really know
the whole world of radio, they
think you're making big money.
My ex wife thought I made big
and I said, No. I mean I yeah, I
thought we were going to because
I said we're going to be
syndicated. And I think that she
saw dollar signs, and of course,
then that didn't happen. And she
also saw dollar signs of my
father, but that didn't happen
either. Went broke, so once that
all went away, that's when the
marriage kind of
that's too bad,
but anyway, I actually ended up
in a better marriage. You say
she said this to you, and it's
like when I'm in situations like
that, okay, this person
obviously is trying to go for a
dig.
Oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
I think I said something digging
as well. Back to her. It may
have been about, you know, I
said, Well, you may want to pay
attention to your husband,
because he seems to be more
interested in my wife than you.
I would have been like, Oh, are
you rich? You know,
Yeah. How'd you make your money?
Are you
rich? Because obviously you
can't buy class, yeah. So, yeah,
you may have married the money,
but you,
you didn't, you didn't inherit
the class, that's the thing
is, like, Bell Meade is, I mean,
that's an older neighborhood.
Yes, it is.
What are they? 100 and 100 years
old, maybe, or as older than, oh
gosh, civil war even THINK SO
area, you know, but it's like, I
grew up around in New York.
You're talking Revolutionary War
communities that go far beyond
that, Westchester County,
Greenwich, you know, Stanford,
pound Ridge, those areas. I
mean, that was old money. Yeah,
multi generational, you know,
you're talking three, four or
five generations worth of
wealth. And it's just funny,
when I read that down here, I'm
like, Oh, you, you have no idea
this is you're still there with
this.
Yeah,
you guys are newbies. Yeah, you
really
are, well, I must say, growing
up in New Orleans, there's,
there's a certain snobbery there
about the old money, and it is
old. There's no giving around
that and the old families. It
has changed over the years. You
know, time has kind of changed
that Katrina certainly changed a
lot of that. There's a lot of
people left and didn't come
back.
Yeah.
You know, Charleston, South
Carolina, again, an old city
with a lot of history, a lot of
old money, if you've ever been
there, the area known as the
battery, which is beautiful, old
mansions, these antebellum homes
that are along
sun,
War era,
Oh, yeah. And before that, you
know, 1840s
Yeah,
that are, you know, it's along
the the well, heck, it's the
ocean, you know. But it's right
there, near Fort Sumter, you
know, yeah, it's just idling
things sitting out in the middle
of the bay there. But there is
still a snobbery about the old
family money. And I think most
of your cities have that,
oh yeah,
at least the cities of any size.
But heck, even your small towns,
you know, it's like, well, you
know, the Hartford heck, they've
been in this community for five
generations. You know, they're
most of them were land or
farmers landowners, because
that's ultimately where your
wealth is. Well, the land, yeah,
and most rich, I found this to
be true. Most of the rich that I
meet, the you know, the more
wealth to do. People, you know,
they're not snobs. They if they
earned it, they are really cool
people. Yep, the
first generation.
Yeah, the first now, if you meet
a, you know, if you meet a trust
fund, baby, they may be a little
different.
Perfect example was, again, when
I worked for my dad doing
telephone work, we had a nursing
home in Rye, New York. It was
right on the Connecticut, New
York border, and it was a second
generation owned nursing home.
The first generation is the
parents. The father still had an
office. You think it was put in
the 70s, still came into work,
still wore a full suit. The
mother didn't, you know, she
worked with all the
administrative staff. She had a
little desk.
Yeah?
A lot of humility there, yeah?
But the kids ostentatious, oh,
yeah, this dude, Robert Wilmer,
his name was, I'll never forget.
Never forget. He almost reminded
me of the liar, yeah, that's it.
That's that. Oh, John, Levi,
John Levitt, yeah, he had a very
like his bottom lips. I mean, it
was. Are so stereotypical. Like
he had this kind of, you know,
the bottom lip would stick out
like a pouty kind of, you know,
and he just talked. Every time
he talked, he cringed. Mother, I
don't like those. Here's the
kicker. Here I am. I know a lot
of questionable people at that
point in my life, yeah, and this
dude would come out while I'm on
a ladder in the actual entryway,
the foyer, the reception area,
and I'm on a ladder running
stuff from the ceiling, and I
just kind of looked down, and
there he is, dude pulls out a
wad of cash. I mean nothing but
hundreds. Just starts counting
in front of everybody. And I'm
going,
Yeah, well,
like, Dude, I have access to
your office. I know your home
address.
All
I have to do is tell some of
these people that I hang out
with at this point in my life.
Yes, this dude, at any given
time, is probably carrying
three, $4,000 on them in cash.
Yeah, here's where he lives. Go
with that. What you need? Yeah?
Have fun,
yeah? But, well,
you
mentioned, you know, I'm
thought, and I know I keep
making these South Carolina
references, but I think so many
people know about it because it
was such a big deal. Was this
Alec Murdoch guy down in South
Carolina, this old family money
that he certainly didn't earn,
right? You know, and his kids
didn't earn. They act like
fools. One of them ended up
getting a young girl killed on
that boat because he was driving
it drunk and so on and so forth.
But you know, during the trial
of that guy who was convicted of
killing his wife and son, it
became very evident that he was
just this guy that, yeah, sure,
he went to South Carolina
University South Carolina got
his law degree like his father
and his grandfather and so,
yeah,
but, you know, I think a lot of
him getting into the school,
first of all was because of who
the family was and the fact that
he was able to even graduate
from there. I think people
pulled some strings to make that
happen.
Oh, sure,
you know, to make sure that he
got the easy route through all
that, but not not really
appreciating, to me, that's just
such a lack of respect for what
your family did that worked so
hard to be able to get you these
opportunities
exactly
to take and really respect them
and honor those opportunities by
not being an idiot. It really is
upsetting to me, for like, the
kind of folks that you're
talking about, Jim, that just
don't really respect what it
took to get to that point, all
the hard work and such that
families coming here with
literally nothing
exactly on
their backs, you know, the whole
immigrant thing, and I know
that's a big topic of discussion
these days, but man, folks came
here with nothing, built these
empires, and you've got families
that just ruined them, like this
Murdoch guy, destroyed the
legacy of the of the family.
Because I think that might be
the differentiating aspect of
this, because, like, a more I'm
thinking about this, there are
people that do that. There's an
old adage that the first
generation works for it, the
second generation squanders it,
the third generation loses it.
Is typically how it plays out,
right? It's
not unlike, you know, cultural
generational shifts that we've
talked about in the past on this
show where you've got your World
War, two generation that fought
the war, strong men create Good
times. Good times create weak
men. Weak men create bad times.
Bad times create strong men. So
on and so forth. That is a cycle
that happens in these families
too, but I think with the
immigration aspect of it, for
example, company up in
Connecticut that I worked for
was an electrical company.
They're like the Lee company of
Connecticut, and it's a Rizzo
companies. And the guy came here
from Italy, you know, rumor has
it when his third child was
being unborn in the hospital and
everything like that. And he
wasn't there because he was out
on a telephone pole somewhere,
just getting the job, making
money, yeah, making sure the
kids could eat, you know? And he
grew that into an empire. His
kids are now the second
generation owners of the
business, and they are taking
care of the business like they
are really running with, yeah.
And so I think the immigration
might, the immigrant aspect, I
think makes a huge difference,
because they came from a world
of like, oh man,
oh yeah,
I can't do this on my own here.
I can only do that in America.
Yeah, you know,
in fact, that's why I love
immigrants. I'm against illegal
immigration. We have to get we
have to be better about
enforcing our laws. But that, I
think some of the greatest
Americans I have ever met are
people that are immigrants. I
come from a well of what they
Well, I guess Trump called it,
you know, shit, whole country,
yeah,
and he's right. I mean, they
were just they, and they came
from, you know, these, these
ruthless dictators, and they
didn't have a chance to make any
kind of Betterment for
themselves or their family. And
they get to have it done here,
you almost like if your kids.
Not appreciating the country.
Take them down to southern
Miami, yes,
and have
them hang out with a bunch of
Cubans that have come here to
the country. Or,
you know,
they are very conservative
minded people.
Or have them, have them. Do you
know, work outside of the
country through a church? Go
down to
that would be phase two. Yeah.
Go down to Central America,
talking to the first witnesses.
Yeah, doesn't do it. Yeah. Fine.
Go to Cuba, yeah. Good luck.
I remember very vividly I was
just a kid at the time. Again,
moved to New Orleans when I was
10 years old, but there in the
early 70s, when the Vietnam War
was coming to a close. 7475 all
of the Cambodians. And, you
know, the the Cambodian boat
lift and a lot of the Vietnamese
were moved into the New Orleans
area.
Yeah, there is two
there is a huge Vietnamese
contingency in New Orleans. And,
you know, those folks came here.
I mean, boy, you talk about with
nothing and But what was so
interesting is that it took,
like, two or three years, and
they owned their own businesses.
You know, they would bring over
a family of 10 people, grandma,
grandpa, on both sides,
brothers, sons, cousins, get,
you know, kids and they all
lived in one, one house.
Yes,
pool their money. Work, any job.
It wasn't that a job was too,
you know, they were too good for
there was no such thing. And
before you knew it, they were,
you know, sitting pretty after
just a few years again, coming
here, hard work, pulling
together, pooling their money,
honoring their family members,
especially the elders, taking
care of them, not expecting them
to be on the government dole,
right?
But you know, it's just a
different mindset.
Oh, definitely,
and a lot of people have today.
Well, and I love the Vietnamese.
I dated a girl in Kansas City,
and she lived in a neighborhood
where it was very heavily
popular, populated by Vietnamese
families. And I loved because I
went into she went to work, and
I was just hanging out. So I go
to this grocery store, and it
was mostly Vietnamese,
Vietnamese grocery store, and I
walk in, and you know how
there's all kinds of just
talking, and it was like I was
with the government, because all
of a sudden everything just went
silent. And I even tried to, you
know, like, have a conversation
with some of them, and they
wouldn't
just very distrustful,
yes, very distrustful of me. The
I will give you hope. Circling
back around being, you know,
kind of wary of California's
that are moving in, makes me
think of New York. You know, the
history
of New York, that they went
through those cycles of, you
know, so many different
iterations and where they
started. And, hey, these people
are moving it now. What's that
going to mean? And I sat in 2018
at the top of One World Trade
and looked down on the city, and
I said, Everything I'm looking
at started with a thought. And
that's just an incredible
notion. And it's obviously
working out well for them. Yeah,
so Well,
well,
hopefully you're hopeful now,
oh yeah, really am. No, you
know, I actually think this
neighbor I was talking about,
you know, the I call John
Dutton. I think he's probably a
nice guy.
Yeah,
because he seems like, I mean, I
haven't met him, but I just wish
he would have more. It just
seems like
awareness, yeah,
just just have more awareness
that you're having to deal with
people that have gotten used to
a certain way of life then, and
we've had too many problems with
dogs out there. I mean, we've
had people that have let their
dogs roam, and a neighbor, his
dog got killed by a group of
dogs that were just letting you
know. People were letting them
run run loose.
Maybe a simple aspect of the
letting them know, hey, when
these run loose, like this man,
you're running the risk of
something happened to him.
Well, yeah,
you don't want nothing
happening. You don't want
nothing happen to your dog. You
don't want to have your dog.
Yeah, the good
thing is that you could pay me a
couple of points every month and
make sure when nothing happens
to your dogs.
Hey, maybe I should do that.
Maybe I should go over there.
Listen, just a little down
payment. We can make, make sure
your little feet, you know, your
your dog,
canine friends,
your canine friends will will be
safe in the neighborhood, you
know, saying,
Well, I'm thinking, you know
Jim, I think Jim made a great
point. Perhaps the guy just
thinks, you know, depending on
where he came from, which may
have been kind of congested and
all, and now he's in a little
more spread out area, and he
thinks, Well, hell, I'm out in
the country. Yeah, dogs run I'm
down here a bunch of southern
rednecks, their dogs run loose.
They're always perceived as dumb
asses,
you know? And that is, that is a
that is really because I've seen
people from the north do that,
where they think somebody that
has a southern accent is stupid.
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Whenever, in any type of
environment, if you want to make
somebody come across as an
idiot, usually that you give
them a southern accent, yeah?
So,
but that doesn't mean they're
stupid.
Hold my beer. Yeah. I was guilty
of that. I will be honest. I
think everybody, I mean, if
you're not from the south,
no,
I think, yeah, I think you, I
think you kind of have that
image. But
the funny thing is, Nashville
doesn't have many, I mean, even
when I moved here, not many
people spoke had the southern
accent. Well,
literally, Mark from here. Yeah,
that's all thing about, and
that's why, I guess we should be
used to people coming from
different areas, because I've
rarely met anybody that is a
native nashvillian
Now, anybody who comments on
Facebook on a regular basis, 99%
chance they're a dumb ass. Just
reading is awful. That's the one
thing that just man, you want to
talk about something that grinds
my gears when I see these
community pages and somebody
wants to put a complaint up
about something and the way it's
written, I'm like, guys in the
age of spell check and frickin
AI, yes. Why? I
mean punctuations, punctuations,
proper spelling,
right?
Yeah,
I think much of that is due to
the texting culture.
Yes,
that has all these shortcuts and
just abbreviations for things,
and it's just totally ruined the
ability to construct a coherent
sentence, not only in the
written sense, but verbally as
well.
Well, I'm getting tired of now.
We've moved on to another
subject, social media. But one
thing that has really driven me
crazy is that everybody's now a
political pundit, oh yeah. And
some
dotted opinion,
and some of them shouldn't be,
you know, you know, every time I
turn around, somebody's going,
well, here are my thoughts on
what's actually,
yeah, Twitter or x or whatever.
I mean that that's the wild wild
west in that area,
yeah?
And it just blows my mind some
of the things that people put
out there in terms of, you know,
just showing their ass, yeah,
you know, well, keyboard,
a keyboard really makes somebody
fearless.
Well, I love the with the
Artemis thing that's been
happening, yes. How many people
are going, yeah, right, sure,
yeah, there's a new nobody
believes nothing anymore. Right
back to 1968 when everybody's
going, Oh, they did that on a
movie studio, which they could
have, right? You know,
that's, you know, there's legit,
it's possible.
I'm telling you what you what
you see here on circling the
drain. It's real baby, and you
can check it out where Jay
Harper,
yes, you can find us real idiots
on circling the we didn't need
AI to create this atrocity.
We sure did.
You can find us circling the
drain.net. And of course, all of
the audio platforms, you know
where they are. Apple podcasts.
I heart Spotify. And if you want
to see our lovely faces, you can
do it on Facebook or, heck,
YouTube, when it works, yeah.
And also Spotify the video
portion. We're man, we're trying
to flood the flood, the
interrupts, the yes, the digital
space, yes,
so to YouTube, and anyway, we'll
be back next time on circling
the drain.