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Taking the Hire Road is a podcast dedicated to providing tips to help manage the driver recruiting process while addressing the ongoing challenges related to the driver shortage and driver retention. Hosted by Jeremy Reymer, Founder and CEO of DriverReach, this bimonthly podcast shines a light on the challenges that carriers are facing and aims to help companies hire quality drivers with greater efficiency.
Jeremy Reymer [00:00:07]:
Welcome to Taking the Hire Road, a special show dedicated to the trucking industry, primarily around the confluence of recruiting, retention and compliance. In the fifth year as the host of the show, I bring over two decades of industry experience, both on the carrier side as well as the vendor side. Throughout the year, I interview industry experts and thought leaders who bring their insight to the driver life cycle as we discuss the industry's greatest challenges. I always appreciate your feedback, good or bad. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review. I'd also like to thank and highlight the show's valuable sponsors. Their dedication and commitment to the industry and to this show is greatly appreciated. If you're interested in being a sponsor of the show or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. This week, I'm honored to be joined by an amazing industry friend and overall fantastic human being, Dr. Gina Anderson, Co-founder and CEO of Luma Learning, an award-winning learning management system that delivers effective and engaging training solutions for the trucking industry. Dr. Gina, thank you so much for joining me again.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:01:05]:
Aw, Jeremy, thank you so much for having me. I love being here with you today.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:10]:
Well, I think this is your second time on the show. At least, we certainly.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:01:13]:
At least.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:14]:
Yeah, I think the last time was about a couple of years ago and so there's tons I want to get into today. Since we last spoke, you've continued to grow, provide a valuable need for the trucking industry through onboarding training. And so I want to make sure our audience is familiar with Dr. Gina and Luma. So let's make sure we talk a little bit about that. But you also wrote an amazing book and I want to make sure we spend some time talking about that as well. So are you ready to dive in?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:01:39]:
Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:42]:
Well, like I said, it was a couple of years ago when we last connected. It was in the earlier days of these challenging economic times or trucking. And a couple of years later, here we are still what feels like in the thick of it. Are you getting a sense that we're starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel or is that?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:01:57]:
You know, it's, it's so, it's so funny you say that because like everywhere you look around in the news is doom and gloom. But honestly, as a company, we're just like my book. I mean, we're thriving. I mean, companies are engaging with vendors, they're spending money, they're investing in their employees, they're doing things that are good for the drivers, good for their companies. So, you know, we can't ignore that. There's tariffs, there's implications of that on the companies. Every day you're not really sure. But I have found in my work with the companies we work with and also in the industry and out and about that people are hopeful, people are moving forward. They're not letting, you know, the noise and everything that they're hearing kind of hold them back. And I think that has moved us forward ahead. We've been in this like 20, 20, 20, 21, we're really active in interesting years. 22, 23, we saw kind of a stall, movement rates higher, companies struggling. And honestly, I do see a light. And I think unless we continue to be positive and invest and move forward, only companies, it's not like you're ignoring what's happening, but it's doing the things that's going to keep your company not only innovating moving forward, but investing in what matters most, and that's your teams, so absolutely.
Jeremy Reymer [00:03:23]:
Yeah, to your point, there are things that you can't control, right? Some of the economic issues and stuff that we're faced with, those are things that you can't control. And I know we'll get into this a lot about some of the things that you can control. So I don't want to, I don't want to steal any thunder there, but before we even get into that, you know, I'm sure that there are very few people at this point who don't know who Dr. Gina Anderson is or what Luma is. But if you don't mind, could you just share with the audience a little background on Luma and how you're helping trucking companies with your solution?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:03:49]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you don't know Luma, I hope this gives you the opportunity to meet us. We're a learning company in the industry. And what really differentiates Luma from other providers is we're more than a content providers. For us, this is more than just delivering content. We're really about making and changing lives and making a measurable difference. And when I say measurable, fleets that use Luma see changes in their learning programs. They see drivers being safer because instead of sending a generic parking video, they're actually sending immersive learning, for example, or they're building individualized coaching programs and really doing the human connection.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:04:28]:
Then most people think, well, you have a learning management system, like, how are you building human connections to reach our learners? And that's really what we do. It's about building learning communities. And we really focus on our partners as part of the Luma learning community and also a broader community to connect us to what really matters, and that's learning, safety, and training. So that's who Luma is. We're more than a content provider. And if you don't know who we are, please reach out. I'd love to meet you and share a little bit more about us.
Jeremy Reymer [00:05:01]:
Well, thank you for that. You know, you were an amazing partner. And I say were because that was for the company that I had founded, Driver Reach. And while I'm not a part of it anymore, I'll always be grateful for that partnership and just the relationship that we continue to have. I'm confident there are so many other ways that we can work together going forward, especially around Project 61 and, you know, just Driver health and wellness. Now, we can touch on that in a little bit. But for now, I want to talk about your latest book, Thrive. I talk about books a lot on this show.
Jeremy Reymer [00:05:28]:
I even started a book club, a trucking industry book club recently. And, you know, reading, learning, growing, like, these are really important actions in my life, and I know that they are in yours as well. Can you share with the audience what prompted you to write, Thrive?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:05:43]:
Yeah, and I know you mentioned you gave a hint that you're going to write a book, so I'd love to connect with you on that and your why of writing a book. But for me, my why was really I was going out and speaking at industry events. And a few of them, I asked the audience how many of them felt like inside, like fours or fives, like really felt good and happy. And it kind of correlates to the recent World Happiness Report. You know, I asked like, close to 300 people and like two or three people raised their hand. And, you know, I had, I started my podcast two years ago because drivers were saying they were depressed. They were like messaging me. They were posting.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:06:19]:
We have a, a message board in Luma where you can leave feedback. And I started to get a really sense that really science. I study the brain and specifically how we learn. I'm actually going to be sharing it, NTTC brain scans and actually showing evidence of how mindful practices can move yourself forward and change the structure of your brain and also change how you feel. And for me, I wanted to write a practical book that anyone could read, coupled with my personal story and my personal journey to help people move forward. Because I think oftentimes people feel like, well, you're a CEO like Jeremy, like You're a founder. Like, you're great. You know, you just sold a company.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:07:01]:
You're great, you're happy, you're great. But the reality is every single person struggles. So for me, I wanted to share practical strategies that could help anyone move forward. And since I've written the book, if I could help one person realize that their life is worth it, that it matters to me. And I got a phone call a few weeks ago and I donated, I think 160 books at NTTC, something like that. It's not like I'm here making money off my book like I want people to. If they want a copy today, just message me, I'll give you a book for free. I want to help people.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:07:36]:
And somebody like that was really struggling, picked up my book and they said it really changed their life. And for me, if that can help someone move forward to see tomorrow, it's worth it.
Jeremy Reymer [00:07:47]:
You know, you mentioned the drivers are depressed and they were even posting that. I'm at least encouraged. While that's sad and it truthfully, and it really is, I'm at least encouraged that they're acknowledging it and saying something because the worst thing they could do is nothing, right? I mean, so I'm really encouraged. And your comment about being the CEO or whatever, as you know, heavy is the head that wears the crown. It's, it's just not all, it's not all roses. But there's a quote in the book that I want to read if you don't mind, it's.
Jeremy Reymer [00:08:14]:
You say, my goal with this book is to help you build this mindset and provide resources to help you move closer to peace. And you reference the journey isn't about reaching a destination, but embracing an ongoing process of self discovery and inner growth. And I think until we're no longer living, we're always learning, growing, or at least embracing. That I think is important. And you talk a lot about the importance of mindfulness, about being mindful. What does that mean? And how can someone become more mindful? What does that process look like?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:08:44]:
Yeah, I mean, really, when you move through a day, it's really being in tune to what you're thinking in that moment. And you'll be surprised if you really start paying attention to the inner voice inside of you, how much negative talk there is, how much you talk yourself down, like, why did I do that? Or I'm not good enough or I'm not smart, or that person doesn't like me. We ruminate. And I talk in my book about all the ways that we talk ourselves out of having a not only in tune mindset, but focused mindset on positivity. And so if you get in tune with your own inner voice and thoughts, you have a skillset that many people, they may not want to hear that voice or they're not in tune with their thoughts. It gives you a power to really help yourself move forward. And you're right. Those people that are saying they're depressed are the ones that can take this book and will move themselves forward.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:09:42]:
It's the people that aren't saying, saying that and the people that aren't recognizing their mindset that are going to be the people we lose or the people that are going to suffer. So the first step is being mindful that you need to move, move yourself forward.
Jeremy Reymer [00:09:57]:
I think kind of to your point, what we tell ourselves, you know, how we perceive ourselves matters. And you refer to power statements in reference to that mindfulness activity. Can you share what a power statement is and how can it be helpful for each of us?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:10:12]:
Absolutely. So everyone has a true self, right? It's your true core of who you are, and you can reflect on that. But there's usually this gap between what your true self is and what you tell yourself. And to get yourself to know where your gaps are and where you're going, you can create power statements. And so, for example, a power statement is like, how you feel like I belong. Do you really feel like I belong? For a long time in the industry, I felt like I did not belong. It took me a long time to tell myself positive statements that I do belong. I do have a place here, and I do deserve love and connection and grace.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:10:59]:
But it's telling yourself those power statements. And if you're not telling yourself those power statements, trying to figure out why you're not deserving or why you think you're not deserving. Kind of like I matter. I mean, how many times are we. In situations where you're being bullied at work or you're being talked down on at work, and you tell yourself, well, I don't really matter, but you do matter. It's telling. A power gives you power to move forward. If you're feeling like you were like maybe something happened in your life where you were damaged, you were abused, you were taken advantage of, and you feel like there's something missing inside of you, a power statement would be something where you tell yourself, I am complete.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:11:45]:
If you don't feel complete, like if it's something inside of you that you're struggling with, it gives You a space for something you can work on. If you're not feeling complete, you can't be present in the moment. You can't be fully present with someone in the room because you're so focused on trauma or past struggles that there's always something missing that you can't become present with that person. And so there's a lot of different. In my book, I have an activity where you move through different power statements and you can reflect on do you feel like there's something holding you back or do you feel free? You know, you think about this idea of being trapped. But a power statement would be something like saying, I am boundless. I soar, I'm free. I mean, all these things empower you to move forward.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:12:34]:
But the reality is, Jeremy, a lot of times, many of us, including myself, we hold ourselves back. There's an inertia inside of us that's holding us back so that we can't bring and focus on a power statement like I soar to move us forward. And, you know, it's just being aware that there are such things that will help you move your mind forward are incredibly powerful. Let me give you an example. I was in a match. I played Ohio State tennis match, I think I wrote. I don't know if I remember if I wrote about it in my book or not, but I was playing number two singles, and the audience was throwing banana peels at me. They were teasing me.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:13:14]:
I mean, I didn't have tennis lessons, so I didn't look like a typical tennis player. But in my mind, I told myself when I stepped up to the line, I am a winner. I am going to win this match. I am a champion. And I believed it. I knew that I was a winner. That's different. Stepping up to the line and beating that person from Ohio State when I should never have even had. I didn't have the skills like she did, but I somehow pulled that through and it was my mindset in my will to go forward.
Jeremy Reymer [00:13:44]:
That's powerful. And I think kind of to your point, we are often our own worst enemies, you know, and mental health is a. Is a big deal. That's something I want to talk about. Certainly. Loneliness, depression, it's all over. And in the trucking industry is certainly. We're not immune to it.
Jeremy Reymer [00:13:59]:
You referenced in the book that social media and being glued to our phones is a big part of the increasing loneliness and isolation that we feel. What can we do in order to break away from that constant desire to check our phone, to check social media, like you know, what's the solution?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:14:13]:
It's really hard, Jeremy. It's addictive behavior. There's researchers, and I'm going to present this at NTTC. There's actually research that is showing that the scrolling, the movement of the phone and the brain connection and the cortisol that's released is actually the addiction similarly to if you were drinking. So if you think about an alcoholic or someone that's addictive or has an addictive behavior, it's the same chemicals or similar chemicals that's happening as you're scrolling and looking and getting that dopamine effect through scrolling through the phone. And the reality of that is that it's creating a desire for you to continue to do it. So the fact that you continue to go back and do that is because now that you're addicted to it, and that's the reality, it's like being aware that you're addicted to it. The only way to stop an addiction, for any kind of addiction is changing your mindset and your behavior.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:15:07]:
You may have to get help. I mean, you may have to get in a group, you may have to get counseling or you can remove the addiction. But here's the problem. When you think about someone who's struggling with drugs or alcoholic, it's very hard to get rid of the addiction because most of us use the phones every day. I mean, we need it for our business. There's so much desire. So you have to set boundaries. You definitely have to give yourself boundaries.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:15:34]:
And I talk about this, I know we're going to talk about sleep, but if you're looking at your phone all day, it can have impacts well beyond. I mean, they're showing impacts on your fluid that's around your brain and structural changes. It's happening at different ages. The impacts it's having for 0 to 8 or 9 to 11, I mean, the impacts are significant. So I think the solution really is we're not going to give it away completely because it's part of our jobs in our lives. But you have to set boundaries and you have to be aware and just recognize it's addictive behavior and you're addicted and you continue to want to look at it because it's addicting.
Jeremy Reymer [00:16:15]:
And it's addicting. I mean, they know that. That's why they did it. That's why they build it. That's how they make money.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:16:18]:
Absolutely. It's kind of like we were talking about this at my company yesterday. It's like marketing. It's the same thing. Like you walk into grocery store and it's like all of a sudden it's like your phone pops up and says, you know, go buy. Fill in the blank. It like knows that you're there, knows your location.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:16:34]:
It's marketing to you. It's changing your behavior, but this is changing the structure of your brain. We're a technology company. I've studied my PhD on instructional systems technology. I'm very hyper aware of the benefits and I'm also hyper aware of the dangers and the fact that people are lonelier. It's not by chance, it's because of these behaviors and we are focused on this. So absolutely, I'm very passionate about it.
Jeremy Reymer [00:17:03]:
And I love that. And you know, you reference a lot of opportunities in the book. You mentioned the importance of sleep, the importance of expressing gratitude, even proper breathing. You also highlight the importance of building meaningful connections. Now, let me preface this with my perspective, right? I love this industry so much because I have built such great relationships for a long time, for 20 plus years. I mean, really good. And you're one of them, right? Like really close people that you really trust and you really genuinely love and care about. Do you feel the trucking industry is unique in how it provides a sense of community, the opportunity to build meaningful connections?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:17:40]:
So I would say this. I think it depends on your role in the industry. I have seen from a learning standpoint, learning communities not being used for the drivers and for the employees. And I feel though that's the group. So from a learning standpoint, when you can have an emotional resonance, connection in the moment with somebody, whether it's actually learner to learner to learner engagement, you can actually impact memory where they remember something and also build emotional connection where they feel connected. So from my standpoint, sure, like when we go to industry events, we were at NTTC a few weeks ago, we have meaningful connections that we'll never forget. Like that's meaningful. But when the drivers don't have CBs in the truck anymore, they're not allowed cell phones.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:18:30]:
It's difficult for them to communicate, to get, you know, information. They're alone. I mean, even employees at work, I mean, they're overloaded at work. There's so much to do, there's so much stress. Do they really have time to even think about building a community? So we're lacking in general and from my perspective in the industry, building learning communities, hey, that's why our clients, for example, and you at Driver Reach, your clients want to come. And we have a learning event where we come in person and it's a small group to build those meaningful connections. But what are we doing for the learners? We can create learning communities online. You can create them blended, you can create them in person.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:19:10]:
There's a lot of different ways to do that, but we're far away from that. And that is why the drivers and the learners are saying one of the reasons, not the only reason why they're lonely. We have to build meaningful. And this isn't like, these are small connections. Like, I was just had my podcast with someone in Switzerland and he was talking about like a dinner. How many times when you're at dinner and you're having. You're looking at your phone the whole time, like, you're not thinking about the person you're sitting across from for 20 minutes.
Jeremy Reymer [00:19:40]:
Or the whole family is doing that.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:19:42]:
Right. It's like, no time out. Let's put our phones away and let's. Like, we don't even know how to talk to each other anymore, you know, and that's the society problem. And it's definitely. It's beyond the industry. I think we're entering into a time. This is the good part of it, is that we're building awareness through Project 61 and through Things that we're doing at Luma and other companies that this is a real epidemic. I mean, the surgeon general came out two years ago, or, yeah, it was two years ago. Now it's two years ago talking about this issue, and it's still today. But people are being more aware. And I think that's the key. We may not end people being wanting because here's the thing, people are preferring to be alone. They're preferring to be on their phones. But the reality is it's hurting us.
Jeremy Reymer [00:20:30]:
Yeah, well, it's hurting them, too. Again, they don't know it. It's kind of to your point. Like, it's designed to do this to you.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:20:36]:
Absolutely.
Jeremy Reymer [00:20:37]:
It's, and that's, again, that's how they make money. They suck your attention, and.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:20:42]:
Absolutely think about the phone when you go to sleep, Jeremy. I mean, so I talk about sleep in the book. I'm really passionate about sleep. My team knows this. I'm really passionate about eating. They don't take my lunch. And I sleep, so I go to bed.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:20:53]:
So they don't contact me. But the thing is, like, people don't realize the value. You know, you're not feeling good. I mean, it impacts everything when you don't get consistent sleep. Sleep. And I mean, consistent. You have to be consistent. And everyone's consistency is a little bit different. Meaning what works for you may not work. I give strategies in my book. But it's like, Gina, you go bed at 9:00. Like that doesn't work for me. And I stopped drinking caffeine at a certain time. But it's been like two years of studying my own behavior of sleep that I know it works for me. And I know if I stay up late, when I say late for me, like 9:30, it's off. Like if I have to go to Vegas for a show, there's no coming back from that for me.
Jeremy Reymer [00:21:35]:
Yeah, no, that's rough. And you know, that's a perfect segue into, I guess, industry health segment of the show. You know, I certainly want to make sure that we cover this. This is a question that is asked by the audience and in this industry health segment, it's sponsored by Project 61. And it's because we're talking about sleep. How can we promote getting better quality sleep, especially for our drivers?
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:21:56]:
Yeah, you have to be consistent. You have to be consistent. And I know that's hard when you're a driver because your routes might not be consistent. But here's the thing. If you're looking at your phone minutes before you go to bed, there's studies that show that you're actually not going to get as deep asleep as if you were to put that screen away. The blue screen really impacts your circadian rhythms, how you feel, how much time after you put down your phone that you need before your body goes to sleep. And if you have a watch and you're tracking this, you can tell how much REM you have, how much deep sleep and how much light sleep.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:22:34]:
And it's all imperative. So if you're a driver, if you're anybody, you really need to pay attention to what you're eating before you go to bed. Are you like how many hours you're eating before you go to bed? The phone aspect. And I think it, you'll see a difference if you're chugging down a Red Bull, you know, like at 9:00 at night or eating a pizza and then you're trying to go to bed. I mean, your body is revved up. The sugar, the Internet, all of that prevents you from having good sleep. And I know it's hard, I know those things are good. I like having ice cream, trust me.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:23:07]:
I mean, I have dairy allergy, but I love having dairy or chocolate or something before impacts you. It does. Alcohol. Alcohol impacts you. Think about when you have a. I gave up Alcohol, I mean, I don't really drink. I mean, it's not because I'm like against alcohol, is because I know I don't sleep well. Like I have a glass of wine with friends at 9:00 or whatever. Well, that's my bedtime. But okay, let's say then it's like you don't sleep well. You're. You wash your sleep pattern, right? Jeremy, it sounds like you experience this.
Jeremy Reymer [00:23:37]:
Oh, very much so. I mean, so I. I've been tracking my sleep now for over a year, probably a year and a half or so. And it's amazing. I used to tell people, oh, I sleep great. Until you start tracking it. And then I'm looking at there's a difference between the quantity of sleep, right? The hours and then the quality and the deep, deep sleep. I mean, every single.
Jeremy Reymer [00:23:56]:
The first thing I do when I wake up in the morning, this is crazy because I go straight from my phone. Bad idea. Except I'm checking my sleep. How did I do? And what I do notice always. And you talk about alcohol. If I drink at all, and maybe not one drink, like several few hours before bed, but if I drink anywhere near bedtime and especially more than one serving, my deep sleep sometimes is zero. That is horrible. You don't know this stuff.
Jeremy Reymer [00:24:23]:
You think you slept fine now you don't feel the best necessarily, but.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:24:27]:
Right, right? It's crazy.
Jeremy Reymer [00:24:29]:
It's a, that's a really big deal.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:24:31]:
Well, here's the big deal. Here's the big deal. People don't realize what it does to your brain. Like, that's the big deal. Like you don't realize you do this once. Oh, I only do it once every weekend or whatever. But the reality is it can impact and change the structure and the chemicals in your brain, so, and if you're gonna go drive, like that doesn't make any sense.
Jeremy Reymer [00:24:55]:
There's so much that we can talk about. I know in our allotted time we've reached it, but this is. We need to talk a lot more about this sort of thing. I love your passion and I really appreciate you joining me.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:25:04]:
Thank you so much, Jeremy.
Jeremy Reymer [00:25:05]:
Look forward to seeing you in some upcoming industry events.
Dr. Gina Anderson [00:25:08]:
Yeah, let's go.
Jeremy Reymer [00:25:09]:
And thank you for Taking the Hire Road with me. Once again, special thanks to the sponsors of this show. We really appreciate you. If you're interested in being a sponsor or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. Until next time, thank you for Taking the Hire Road.