Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
🎙️ If You Had One Year Left… Would You Still Work This Much?
In this episode, we explore how contemplating death can clarify your priorities and help you fix your work-life balance before it’s too late.
From young entrepreneurs to seasoned executives, most men struggle with knowing when to hustle and when to rest. This conversation blends humor, personal stories, and practical wisdom to help you redefine success, realign your values, and avoid burnout.
In this episode, we explore how contemplating death can clarify your priorities and help you fix your work-life balance before it’s too late.
From young entrepreneurs to seasoned executives, most men struggle with knowing when to hustle and when to rest. This conversation blends humor, personal stories, and practical wisdom to help you redefine success, realign your values, and avoid burnout.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
• The biggest lie about “balance”
• How death contemplation can bring clarity
• Why your work ethic might be hiding fear
• What successful men regret the most
• 3 frameworks for living a life you won’t regret
• The biggest lie about “balance”
• How death contemplation can bring clarity
• Why your work ethic might be hiding fear
• What successful men regret the most
• 3 frameworks for living a life you won’t regret
About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break free, heal deep, and become the lions they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland (certified EMDR therapist) and Zach Carter (counselor + coach), this show blends faith, psychology, grit, and humor to help men win the battle within. New episodes drop every Tuesday.
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break free, heal deep, and become the lions they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland (certified EMDR therapist) and Zach Carter (counselor + coach), this show blends faith, psychology, grit, and humor to help men win the battle within. New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Creators and Guests
What is Lion Counseling Podcast?
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.
If you had just one year to live, how would you spend your time? Would you work more, rest more, spend more time with your family, chase that dream that you've been putting off? Today, we're tackling one of the most confusing modern struggles, work life balance, and how death contemplation can help you finally make sense of it. This is the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Godland, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist and with me is Zach Carter, counselor and coach.
Mark Odland:And our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep, and to become the Lions they were created to be. All right, Zach, tell us about work life balance. What is it? Sure, man.
Zack Carter:Oh, man. I I've I've spent like a week and a half thinking about this and it's been so confusing. You look up famous people like mister Beast, and he's like, you don't want my life. I work all the time. Right?
Zack Carter:And then you hear about people on their deathbeds that are like, I wish I had pursued my dreams. It's like, dude, what is the right answer? Is it like, I work more, I don't work enough, you know, I spend more time with my family? Really hard. Really hard to kinda figure this out.
Zack Carter:So let's start with the definition. Some define it as an even allotment of time and energy between work and life outside of work. Right? Some people are like, it's not completely even. It's not one for one.
Zack Carter:Sometimes it's like a little here, a little there. Right? Some people say it's it's not about evenness throughout your life. It's about how sometimes you have to go hard, you have to work really hard, and then you pull back, and then you spend more time with your family. And that is not about a perfect balance.
Zack Carter:It's about a rhythm. Right? So here, here are the problems that I see when we're thinking about the work life balance. If you are all work and no life, burnout happens, disconnection, broken relationships. It can have a lot of negative impacts on the other side.
Zack Carter:But if you have all life and no work, then you have a loss of purpose, a lack of contribution, underachievement. So what do we do? What the heck do we do? It's so confusing because there's no universal formula. Some people are like, yeah, you need to focus on your mission.
Zack Carter:You need to focus on your purpose. Other people like, no, you need to focus on family. So what I've come to realize is that balance looks different depending on the season of life you're in and balance looks different depending on the kind of person you are. Sure. Right?
Zack Carter:So in some seasons of life, if you're a young entrepreneur or athlete, if you're trying to be the pinnacle of your field, it's going to be mostly work, right? It's going to be almost all work. I'm watching the Michael Jordan documentary on Netflix, The Last Dance. Yeah. That dude didn't have a work life balance.
Mark Odland:No.
Zack Carter:That was all work, man. That was all work. But what happens if you're like a retiree or you're a parent, right? You may have to focus on connection over the hustle. Right?
Zack Carter:And so this is what makes this topic so frustrating. There's no single right answer. What feels balanced for one person might feel like neglect to another. Right? So Mark, I'm gonna put you on the spot.
Zack Carter:How do you personally define work life balance?
Mark Odland:Well, first of all, can you define it for me, Zach? No. Just kidding. No. Man.
Mark Odland:Yeah. I I really resonate with what you're saying, and I think there is something about being honest enough to know that there are different seasons that deserve more attention in one area or another. It could be a big season of life, it could be a given month, a given year, even a given week where you have to be, I think I've talked about this on other podcast the idea of faithfulness. Faithfulness to the moment and then you pan out bird's eye view and you're like yeah that week was totally work and that week my kid was sick and so it was totally life and but big picture I did what was right in the moment to the best of my ability right because we can turn I mean a lot of we have a lot of Christian guys listening to this podcast we can turn the pursuit of balance into kind of the new like works righteousness for our spirituality, right? We can be like we have to do this perfectly, we're always falling short and it could be this like bar that we never meet and we can beat ourselves up for it.
Mark Odland:So I would just say if you're doing that like man, I'm glad you're in the fight. I'm glad you're taking it seriously. But, you know, maybe there's a better approach to kinda looking at this in how we how we sort through it. And I'll be honest, it's a struggle for me, man. Running businesses, we got the podcast, we got writing books, we've got doing our counseling and coaching, trying to be a good good dads and and fathers.
Mark Odland:It's definitely not easy. And I'm so glad you're talking about this topic today, Zach, because I know, like, that kind of is like, a lot of the guys that we work with, like, kind of our ideal client are a lot of hardworking guys who are, like, really grinding, they're really finding some success or on that they're on the cusp, they're ready, but those very same guys who are having their breakthroughs at work and just out there conquering the world they're feeling the burnout, they're feeling the suffering on the home front. And I think that's just like one of our callings is to help guys to to to catch it early before it before they find themselves self destructing. And if they haven't caught it early enough to know that there is healing and recovery for that. So I'll I'll shut up and then let you keep talking, Zach.
Mark Odland:But that's
Zack Carter:No. That's that's perfect. And I and kind of jumping off of what you're saying, it it it definitely feels like different types of guys in different stages. You have different emphasis on life versus work. So what I've noticed in my own life and in the lives of young guys I know now, or I'm working with is that when you're single, you have a lot of pressure to get in the grind.
Zack Carter:You're you fear you're falling behind. You fear you're not doing enough. You're like, I'm playing too many video games. I'm watching too much TV. I'm not pursuing, you know, a future spouse.
Zack Carter:Right? And so there's this pressure that like, Hey, I'm doing too much life and I need to do more work. And then as I got married, it's like, okay, this feels like it's kind of easy to balance. Like I, you know, I make sure I have time for my wife, but I'm also getting work done. But then like when we had our daughter, this is when this topic really hit me because she's a year now.
Zack Carter:If I was working the whole time in the first year there, it just, I know it's cliche, but it doesn't hit you till you're in it. That like once that year is gone, it is gone. Like she's never that tiny again. She's never having a first word again. She's never walking for the first time again.
Zack Carter:Right now we're thinking about transitioning her like into her own bedroom, into her own crib. And we're just like distraught about it. Cause we're like, man, she's not going to be in the room with us anymore. She's going to be off on her own. And like all that stuff, if you're doing all the work, just, you just can miss.
Zack Carter:Right? But then you have like retirement phase where then you like swing in the other direction again. You're like, I'm now all about life. I've been working for forty years. Like I'm ready to like be about life, maximize my enjoyment.
Zack Carter:So let me ask you, Mark, with the kinds of clients you work with, what are the work life balance problems that you've seen as you work with clients?
Mark Odland:Oh man. Yeah. I mean, at one point, I don't know if it's still on our website but I kind of had this you know we're lion counseling right? I mean it's this whole thing of like God created us to be lions, He created us to be fierce protectors and providers and lovers and creators, people who can leave a legacy behind. And at one point on the website I kind of categorized into these metaphors, right?
Mark Odland:We have like the rogue lion, right? They're like the lion who left the pride, they're conquering the world, they're building their company, they're kind of doing their thing and they're kind of like letting things burn in behind them. And maybe they love their family a lot but for whatever reason they're just like I gotta do this. I gotta do this. And they're definitely going all in on the work side not on the family side and they need a little more correction to kinda pull things back in.
Mark Odland:Right? Mhmm. And then we've got kind of the cage lions. These are the guys who are like, they're hungry. They they're working their butts off.
Mark Odland:They love their families. They're doing a a good job, they're making some money, but they're still they still feel kind of caged, they still feel kind of trapped. And they're like when is the breakthrough? When am I gonna have a high enough income to be able to spend more time with my family? When am I going to right it's kind of like the few you know the life is always somewhere in the future and it's really hard to enjoy the present and so how do we honor those guys and we will work with a lot of guys on that level too so if you when you hear us saying we work with successful guys we're not excluding you Right?
Mark Odland:We work with hungry guys too who are willing to invest in this in themselves. So Mhmm. And then I talk about wounded lions, and they could be all the way across the board. You know? Just guys who are are doing the best they can, but they haven't dealt with some of the deep wounds that are kinda holding them back.
Mark Odland:So back to your question, what are the common struggles? You know? I mean, I think I kinda did broad brush brush strokes on that, but I think a classic struggle would be a guy finally works for, like, couple decades, and he's got a great company going or or he's risen up through the ranks. He's got a good income, but he's spent so much time away from home. That, his wife feels disconnected from him.
Mark Odland:And he's thinking, what are you doing? What what are you talking about? Like, I I poured my whole life out for my family. Like, I love you guys to death. And they're just thinking, I know, dad, but, like, we did this whole other thing without you.
Mark Odland:And like, I don't know. Like you know, there's this disconnection and there's this sadness that's this realization like, I've worked this hard and now I'm picking up the pieces. Now it's not just can I find balance? It's almost like can I find balance in order to save my marriage? Mhmm.
Mark Odland:Can I find balance to have a relationship with my kids before they go to college and hope they wanna come home and visit? Right? Or for the young young entrepreneur, the guy out of college or, you know, early in his work career, their struggle is, like, you know, balance sounds good. But, man, if if I don't if I don't get this next raise or if I don't get over this this this busy work, you know, season of work, I don't know how we're gonna pay the bills, or I don't know how we're gonna, you know, do this next thing. Right?
Mark Odland:And so for them, I think they can almost scoff at the idea of balance. Be like, don't got don't have time for that right now. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing. That's a whole other podcast, Zach. I know with cognitive behavioral therapy, like all or nothing thinking, distorted thoughts that really sabotage us.
Mark Odland:So I I think those are a couple things. It's a lot of it is, like, our mentality that drives us. And maybe this is we could say this for later in the conversation, but I think deep down, the fears, the deep fears that we have that drive us, that that make it seem like we can't even entertain the concept of balance. Because if we do,
Zack Carter:bad things are gonna happen. Yeah. That's so good, man. Yeah. That that breakdown of the four different lines, is I think it's very cool framework to kinda go through.
Zack Carter:So as you're listening out there and you're like, okay. I got it. I'm either working too much or I'm not working enough, but like, how do I even, how do I know? How do I know what I'm supposed to do? How do I know how to find this balance?
Zack Carter:Right? You guys have presented the problem. What's the solution? Sure. The solution is thinking about death.
Zack Carter:So I was waiting for it.
Mark Odland:I was waiting for it, Zach. Bring it.
Zack Carter:So recently, I I started attempting to read the denial of death by Ernest Becker. That sounds like
Mark Odland:a that sounds like like a Nicholas Sparks novel.
Zack Carter:Oh, a 100%. People falling in love going on, you know, carnivals and Disneyland and now. So I'm attempting to get through it, but it did get me thinking about death as it would by the name of the book. Right? And there's been this process that I've been doing kind of intuitively as I've been reading is like, all right, so what would my life look like if I died a year from now?
Zack Carter:Like what would, what would I do? And this is something that you hear in sermons and you hear people talking about. It's like every day or every one of us is going to die one day. And it's like, so we like kind of know, but like this book talks about, we just don't want to think about it. We're like, I'm just going to ignore it.
Zack Carter:I'm going to fill my life with a bunch of distractions. And so I like took the question seriously. And I was like, alright, genuinely, if I was gonna die next year, October 31 or whenever this podcast is released, like, how would I fill my life? And so like, really struggled with this because I'm like, okay, am I am I going to fill my time with as much work as possible to make as much money to leave it to my family, to like take care of my wife and take care of my daughter? On the other end, am I going to spend as much time with them and say, the money.
Zack Carter:They'll figure it out. I just want to spend as much time with them as possible. And I was like, you know, I was like looking through my life, I was like, I would probably do about what I'm doing now. Like, I'm working pretty good hours by take one day off a week to to just hang with my daughter, like while my while my wife works. And then we have a weekend together, all three of us, and we hang with friends and family.
Zack Carter:And so like grind hard during the week, but then have a few days off where where I'm just making sure I'm connecting with my family. But as I've been presenting this question to clients, I've seen that different clients have different answers, whether we're talking about what happens if you would die one year from now, five years from now, ten years from now. Right? And so I'm curious, Mark, what would that look like for you? If you knew a year from now you were gonna die?
Zack Carter:How what would your work life balance look like?
Mark Odland:Yeah. Well, you know, Zach, we're I mean, I'm like you where I'm a creative guy. Like, I know you've done a lot with music and, know, doing some stuff with art, visual art too. Like, I was art major in college and I like to write, right? So in addition to kind of doing the practical stuff that brings up brings in the money, I've got all these crazy ideas for this next book to write or this new art thing to do And I think they're kind of good for my soul, but they're also kind of are they really truly necessary if I had to cut something to spend more time with my family?
Mark Odland:That's probably what I would adjust, right? And, I think if I knew, if I had a terminal diagnosis, I think I would probably do some of what you would I do the responsible thing. I'd say, okay, I wanna make sure they're taken care of when I'm gone, and I would wanna make sure that support system and that stuff is all in place. And if part of that is me continuing to work to do that, I I would do that. But I would also man, I would like to think that I would be just so present, like, not distractible.
Mark Odland:The computer's away. The phone is down. I'm looking them in the eye. I'm just treasuring, like, every moment I have with them. Right?
Mark Odland:And, and spending it's gonna be spending quality time with them, making sure that no words are left unsaid. You know, that my family knows how much I love them, that my kids know how proud of them I am. These things and I think about like with my own dad who passed away a few years ago. You know, it's an interesting reflection as a son to think about thinking about my relationship with my dad. What did he say or do that really spoke like really lifted me up?
Mark Odland:That really kind of was life giving. Right? What are things that could have been said that weren't? How can I learn from that and kind of bestow that blessing like upon my kids? And you're probably gonna get there, Zach, but I mean that's part of the beauty, right, is do we have to wait till we actually get that terminal diagnosis, right?
Mark Odland:One of the books I have on the shelf that I haven't read for a while, this sounds really nerdy, it's called Japanese death poems. Nice. Many of them written by samurai, which I have probably an unhealthy fascination with, but that was like a thing. Like if you're a samurai and you're on your deathbed, you're you're supposed to write an epic death poem that is short, concise, but somehow captures the essence. Like that perfect like cherry blossom bloom of life where it's like this feels right, this feels complete, this feels perfect, and words never do justice to a life.
Mark Odland:You can't actually do that but it's that's what poetry is, that's what art is, that it's the attempt to capture something eternal with something that's not eternal. Right? So but, yeah, I I appreciate you asking the question, Zach. I mean, I'm I'm already, like, inspired just thinking about how I wanna do the rest of, you know, my week a little differently than than I might have just keeping this in mind. So let's just keep going.
Zack Carter:Yeah. It's gonna be hard to top Japanese death poems, but I'm gonna do my best. So look, if you're wanting a balanced life or if it's not even about balance, but just about prioritizing the things that are important to you, because maybe that that's not balanced like we've been talking about. What does it look like if you had one year left, five years left, ten years left? So some thoughts to think through, if you want to take the time to do this, you go for a walk for thirty minutes, Just kind of ask yourself the question, start with one year, then go to five, go to ten, you know?
Zack Carter:And my answers looked a little bit different for each one. Like one year was like, Hey, I'm spending time with my family, but I'm also trying to provide five years is that, but I was thinking about the podcast and we're like, man, I want to make sure that I make this the best we can so that my daughter has something that she can listen to and know a little bit about me and know, and have some wisdom. Right? Ten years is like, man, I would probably try to get my doctorate. I would probably try to continue doing the jobs that I have and spending time with the family.
Zack Carter:But it's like, man, that's kind of a thing. That's been a goal in the back of my head. Right? So I encourage you out there who's listening, like take this seriously, take some time to do this and see like, what are you doing in your life currently that is wasting your time? Are you playing too many video games, watching too much TV, listen to too much politics?
Zack Carter:What would you regret not doing? Right? So not just about the stuff that you regret doing too much of, but what would you regret not doing? Who would you want to make sure you spend your time with? Think through these questions because I think this could be really powerful and help to give you some direction in your life.
Zack Carter:Right?
Mark Odland:So
Zack Carter:in closing, just remember work life balance isn't necessarily about splitting your time up evenly, but it's about living with clarity, living with the purpose that you believe is in your life, whether that's prioritizing the life aspects, if it's prioritizing the work aspects, that's okay. But you you just need to know what you're what you're aiming at. Mhmm. So we just want you to start with the end in mind. Right?
Zack Carter:So start with the end and then work backwards to where you're at now. Right? And then that lays out the kind of life that you wanna live. Any last thoughts, Mark?
Mark Odland:Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking I think it's beautiful that you're inviting and powerful that you're inviting guys out there to step into this, to face what for many of us is the deepest fear, the the great unknown, death. It it forces us to wrestle with our own mortality. It forces us ask us deeper questions of of faith and grounding and what matters most in life. Right?
Mark Odland:And even just to think about, you know, Easter on the horizon in the spring. Right? And that season of Lent that comes before it. Know, for any of you familiar with more traditional liturgical churches, there's a day to begin the season of Lent where you see people walking around with ashes across on their forehead. What is that about?
Mark Odland:If you don't know what that's about, it's where in church you go up very soberly and the pastor puts a cross of ashes on your forehead and says something like, remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return. It's heavy. And it's really heavy to, like, look at your kid with ashes on their forehead and be like, no. Like, I don't wanna think about that, but we need to think about that because it puts things back into perspective. And then, again, for those of us who who hold on to our faith, we know that on the other side in forty days, there there's a resurrection.
Mark Odland:Right? And so that there's hope on the other side. And and with hope with hope, it can become, empowering. It can can become easier to face that darkest reality because we know it doesn't have to be the end. So, of course, we work with guys of all faiths and no faith at all, so we're we're with you no matter where you're at.
Mark Odland:But, I really appreciate you sharing all that today, Zach. I think it's really a really good thing for us to contemplate, to think about one of those pillars at Lion Counseling legacy, building a legacy what we leave behind in this impermanent world but it makes a difference. It really matters what we do and how we live and how we love. If anyone out there is interested in, going a little deeper, Zach and I are here. We're we're happy to do a a free thirty minute Zoom call or phone call, test the waters, see if counseling or coaching might be a good fit.
Mark Odland:And as always, if you if you enjoy this content, please subscribe. It's crazy how many people listen to this podcast and every podcast and actually aren't subscribers so if you have been enjoying it and want to see more videos like it subscribe hit that bell and throw in a comment like have you ever read a Japanese death poem? You're an elite company. Have you ever done the Tim McGraw style, live like you were dying, ridden a bull at a rodeo or went skydiving? Is that a good idea?
Mark Odland:I'm not gonna judge right now but yeah let's get the conversation going guys. We still read every comment. We enjoy interacting with you guys and we appreciate you. So until next time. Bye everybody.
Mark Odland:See you. Bye.