Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Narcissist Abuse Recovery Channel is a transformative and supportive Podcast, dedicated to helping those who are, or have been, abused by narcissists to heal from the ravages of narcissistic abuse. Our show is a lifeline for those who are looking for next steps in their emotional and psychological healing, offering expert guidance and practical solutions for those who are in narcissistic relationships or are rebuilding their lives after narcissistic abuse. The hosts are Attorney Padideh Jafari and Jon McKenney who have helped hundreds of people in their narcissistic abuse recovery and know the journey personally in their own lives.
Narcissists are not whole people when they marry. They don't don't marry for real love. They don't they don't marry because they're really into you in in in a tangible way. They don't... They they quite honestly don't have enough personality in some ways to know if they're into you.
Voiceover Artist:In a world of hurt and pain, we find a way to break the chain. A caring heart, a guiding light, lead us through the darkest night. With preservation in our soul, we'll rescue those who've lost control, escape the grip of a narcissist on our journey to recovery bliss. Welcome to the Narcissist Abuse Recovery Channel with John McKenney and Padilla Hey
Jon McKenney:there, Bessie. How are doing?
Padideh Jafari:Hi, John. How are you?
Jon McKenney:I am doing fantastic. It's been a long time since we've recorded. People are wondering where we've been.
Padideh Jafari:I know. Well, we've been sort of enjoying the summer. Right? But also, we've had a couple of accidents and incidents happen
Jon McKenney:to Accidents and incidents. That's correct. So what was your accident or incident?
Padideh Jafari:Well, so at the end of June, I was walking in the Santa Ana Courthouse, and I had a slip and fall. So you had an oopsie daisy. Yes. And my ankle just went to the right, and it was pretty bad. I mean, I had, like...
Padideh Jafari:The sheriff took a report.
Jon McKenney:Oh, wow.
Padideh Jafari:You know, ambulance came. They took me away. My husband had to to come get me at the hospital. So it's been a long journey of recovery for me.
Jon McKenney:Wow. That's crazy. So you... You've had ankle issues the whole summer.
Padideh Jafari:Yep. And and now, even now as we sit here today. So I've got my my foot sort of propped up. But yes.
Jon McKenney:Wow. That... And ankle stuff is no good. Were you on crutches, or did you have a cane? What did you do?
Padideh Jafari:I did did the cane. I still have a cane, actually, and going to PT, So
Jon McKenney:Wow.
Padideh Jafari:It's still in the recovery mode.
Jon McKenney:And wait a minute. You did this on the courthouse... At the courthouse?
Padideh Jafari:Yes. I did it at the courthouse.
Jon McKenney:Sounds like a lawsuit.
Padideh Jafari:In Santa Ana, I was wearing my normal court shoes, I like to call them. And, yeah, just
Jon McKenney:Wait a minute. You have special shoes for court?
Padideh Jafari:I do. I do. I have I have a lot of shoes, and I can imagine. Are my special court shoes.
Jon McKenney:Special court shoes? Are they are they lucky?
Padideh Jafari:I wouldn't say they're lucky because I really rely on the strength of the Lord when I go to court, especially on, you know, family law cases, child molestation cases, all the heavy heavy stuff. I really do... I mean, I'm I'm blasting, John, worship music all the way from my house to the courthouse. I mean, I... It's like no joke.
Jon McKenney:Like I'll bet.
Padideh Jafari:I'm wondering people watching me in my Tesla going, is this woman nuts or what? It's like six in the morning, but, that's how I get my strength is from the Lord. I wouldn't call it luck. Would call it-
Jon McKenney:Blessing.
Padideh Jafari:Prayer. Prayer shoes.
Jon McKenney:That's right. Well, I I did not break anything, fortunately, this summer, but unfortunately, I got bitten by a little critter. I had a tick bite, and I was unaware of it and wound up with Lyme disease and something else, a coinfection called ehrlichosis, which is the closest thing I really feel like I've ever felt to death as I've ever been. It was just
Padideh Jafari:Oh my goodness.
Jon McKenney:I Like for the... It's very hard to diagnose, and after five visits to the doctor and four different antibiotics, the wrong ones, of course, I finally got a doctor, my third one, who happened to intern with a Lyme specialist, and the guy told him, Look, if you're not paying attention to this stuff, you're going to miss it. Sure enough, everybody else missed it, and he was talking to me about the things I'd done, and he was so convinced that I had Lyme that he prescribed the right antibiotics right away, even before the test came back. So he was very smart to do that, and I started the healing process, which for those of you who've had Lyme, I've got nothing but sadness for you. It's absolutely horrific.
Jon McKenney:It's like an inflammation bomb that goes off in your body. You've got new symptoms every day. I was... I had night sweats. Like, I'd wake up in a puddle.
Jon McKenney:Like, I had to literally swap out It my was terrible.
Padideh Jafari:I'm so sorry.
Jon McKenney:Oh, I'm just glad... It's mostly over now. I've just kinda got energy issues here and there, but I'm I'm grateful it's done.
Padideh Jafari:Yeah. It was really hard watching you go through that and hearing, and I didn't wanna I'm I'm one of those friends that, like, I'm always there, but I don't like to over check up because some people get tired of the whole illness. Right? So I just kinda was checking in.
Jon McKenney:Yeah. I didn't I didn't answer many calls during that time. I I literally... I mean, it was legit just in bed for half the day most days, and there's just not much you can do other than kinda rest up. So even when you get antibiotics, you know, it's interesting.
Jon McKenney:You know, with strep or something like that, they put antibiotics in you, and two days later, you kinda feel right as rain. With this, oh, no. You don't. It's a it's a month and a half of climbing out of a hole, and I'm almost two months in and finally just kinda getting to be better. So it's...
Jon McKenney:Thank god they figured it out that I'm on the mend, and and we've... We're back to recording again, which I'm really excited for. It's good to see your face. I always say that.
Padideh Jafari:Yes. Yes. You know, I've had several clients. You know, obviously I get clients from our podcast, and I've had several of them before they became clients because they do consultations. You know, I've been referring them to the podcast and sending them the link.
Jon McKenney:Yeah. Me too.
Padideh Jafari:And they love it. I mean, they're just like, oh my gosh. I really feel like I've been seen and heard and understood. So I think we're doing something right, John, but
Jon McKenney:I'm I not think... No. I think so. You know, I get I get the same feedback from people, and I know we're doing this, but we're two people who've been through it. So not only are we helping people, and that's our intent to make their lives better and help them understand what they're going through, but we've also been through it too and are kinda on the other side.
Jon McKenney:So that's amazing. So today's topic is why narcissists get married.
Padideh Jafari:Oh, that's gonna be a good topic.
Jon McKenney:Yeah. I think so too. And I wanted to... You know, I talked about how we've kind of begin this a little bit. I wanna I wanna start with something, and that you you have to understand kind of what's going on before somebody gets married.
Jon McKenney:You are you are dealing with somebody who has an underdeveloped personality. So narcissists are not not whole people. I I noticed with my ex that she would take things on, like she would take personality traits on, not just with me early on, but she would take personality traits on with my son. She'd done that too. She liked...
Jon McKenney:After hating rap music, suddenly she liked rap music and liked stuff he liked. When you meet a narcissist and you're dating them upfront, you have to realize that you have somebody who's what we call a personality vampire. They are looking to absorb your personality because they kinda don't have an identity or a personality, so they're looking to take one on. And that's the person that you have married. And this person thinks they love you because they've taken on your personality and they have this ideation phase where they idealize everything, like you walk on water.
Jon McKenney:And they take on the things you like and the things that you love, and suddenly, a person who's doing the dating, you're going, Wow, I've found my soulmate. We've got so much in common. You know? Like, I like antique cars, and she seemed to like antique cars, you know? And I didn't like to watch television, and she didn't like to watch television.
Jon McKenney:I'm not a sports lover, and she didn't love to watch sports so much. So So this person is taking on elements of your personality
Padideh Jafari:Yes.
Jon McKenney:When you meet them. And you think you're in love, and guess what? They think they're in love too, because you have this connection and you have this bond over these things. Really what they've done is they've sucked your personality and absorbed it into themselves. And this person who has done that, you think you found a soulmate, they think they found a soulmate, they feel this ridiculously deep connection, and that's what you marry into.
Jon McKenney:You've married somebody who's in this ideation phase. You've married somebody who is... Who thinks you walk on water until they hook you, and they realize that you're flawed because narcissists, remember, they feel like they they don't do anything wrong, and if they see that you're flawed, then they go, oh my god. I've taken on that personality. I can't do that.
Jon McKenney:Or they they just kinda decide, you know, they tire of it, and and they they kinda deabsorb your personality. We call that a discard, and that takes place during marriage too. But you have to understand that narcissists are not whole people when they marry. They don't marry for real love. They don't marry because they're really into you in in in a tangible way.
Jon McKenney:They don't... They they quite honestly don't have enough personality in some ways to know if they're into
Padideh Jafari:you. I remember one example was I was awaiting bar results when I met my ex husband. So I was awaiting bar results. And, I remember on our first date, this is such a small little thing, but I remember on our first date when the bread basket came, and in Southern California, they give you, like, a bread basket when you go to restaurants. Know not everywhere they do that.
Padideh Jafari:And I remember because I always take the I take the doughy part out of the bread because I like the crust, and he did the same, John.
Jon McKenney:Right.
Padideh Jafari:And I was like, oh my gosh. Like like, who does that? Right? And so just even down to, like, even down to, like, the way you eat your bread or the way that you eat your food or the types of food that you like, they mimic you. Later on, I found out that was not the case.
Padideh Jafari:He likes the doughy part of the bread. It was just because I was doing that that he was doing that. Do you see what I'm saying? So it's... They will literally mimic you.
Padideh Jafari:And so that's why you think that you found your soulmate. You're like, I never thought that I would meet someone that took the doughy part out of the bread and just ate the crust. And... But then you later find out that, wow, that's not the case. And Yeah.
Padideh Jafari:They just are mimicking you, and that's why you thought, like, you had this thing in common.
Jon McKenney:Yeah. Interesting. You know, my ex used to do similar things. I would order food that she wouldn't like, and then she would see mine, and suddenly that was appealing to her. And and they they don't have...
Jon McKenney:They don't even have... You know, in their lack of personality or their lack of identity, they they don't have good... A good sense of even what they like and what they dislike because they've taken on somebody else's personality the whole time. They've taken on what somebody else likes. I can remember, you know, I used to bring home flowers to my ex, and one day she said to me...
Jon McKenney:And I usually bring roses. I mean, red rose... Isn't that what you do? You bring home red roses?
Padideh Jafari:Yes. Yes.
Jon McKenney:So I I do that. So one day she said to me, she goes, you know, I don't really like red roses. Now this is like twenty years in to Wow. To our relationship. So she goes, I don't really like red roses.
Jon McKenney:I'm like, really? Yeah. She doesn't... She didn't have a favorite color, and she said, you know, I think my favorite favorite flower is daisies. And I go, Okay.
Jon McKenney:Well, I'm happy to get them. They're a heck of lot cheaper. So brought daisies home from then on out for her. They marry because they're in search of this wholeness. They're in search of this personality.
Jon McKenney:They're in search of this kind of connection because they don't have it. And when they find somebody they can go take that stuff from, they feel this connection, they go, Oh, well, I must wanna marry, and they get into this relationship. And that's what people marry into. That's what whole people or reasonably whole people, emotionally whole people marry into. And I felt like I needed to set that up because that's really the the person you married.
Jon McKenney:If you married a narcissist, you've not married somebody who's kind of a whole person personality wise. They are ultimately rather childlike in their personalities.
Padideh Jafari:Right. I mean, that's a 100% true. I can see that in my last marriage. And interesting enough, the things that we had in common later on when he decided, no, I don't really like those things because he never really liked those things. Those were used as a weapon against me.
Padideh Jafari:Like, don't you eat the bread? Like, why don't you eat the doughy part of the bread? And I'm like, but I thought you also didn't like that. Oh, no. You know, you're wasting the bread.
Padideh Jafari:It's like, wait. What? Wait a minute. You know? Like, I thought you also didn't like that because on our first date...
Padideh Jafari:And they look at you like you're crazy. And you sound like you're crazy, John. You actually sound like... And you're like, well, I just gotta... I just...
Padideh Jafari:For me, I didn't wanna make any waves with him because I was I was so fearful that it would turn into World War three that I would just dump it. Like, I would just dump the argument, and I'd be like, okay. Well, I guess it was my figment of my imagination that, you know... And and this is just example, but you could imagine if that was a small example, what it was like to live with this person for seven years. I mean, it was just miserable.
Jon McKenney:Well, it's also like opposite day. You you marry somebody for what you thought were common out, things you had in common. Oh, we do this together. We do this together. We do this together.
Jon McKenney:You don't like this. You don't like this. You don't like this. When really all they're doing is reflecting your personality back to you. So you have absolutely no idea who that person is when you're marrying them, and they can't keep it up long.
Jon McKenney:Can't keep pretending long, and they can't keep giving you back your personality for a long time. That ideation phase ends and you find somebody that you have perhaps no commonality with at all. I remember the sports thing. I just... Whatever gene men get to watch sports on television, I am completely deficient.
Jon McKenney:I just I just don't I don't like it. Stick me in front of a good movie instead. I'm a car guy. I like old cars. She knew this, and, you know, I I thought she was somebody who really didn't care for sports so much anyways, and then suddenly, the television's on, and she's watching football on television.
Jon McKenney:Why are we doing this? What? Yeah. Swear to you. And and the reason she did that was because she moved from my personality, and she moved to pick up my son's personality, and my son likes sports.
Jon McKenney:So she decided she was gonna go do this and started to talk about sports and how she liked this team when she was growing up, and it was such a big deal. I'm like, who are you? And you you wind up wind up in this relationship hearing all of this stuff, and it's just, again, suddenly you go, Wait a minute. This is not the person I married. You don't have the same likes and dislikes that I thought you had, and you find yourself relatively deceived in this marriage.
Jon McKenney:And again, they just want the personality. They're not... Why do they marry? This is one of the reasons. They want that personality for themselves, so they take it on, and as they absorb it, they get closer to you or what they think is closer, but it's all been a lie.
Jon McKenney:Then suddenly you're married and you're going, Wait a minute. This is not what I thought it was gonna be.
Padideh Jafari:Right. I would say that a second, but very second point to all this is narcissists marry to secure a servant. And I'll give you an example of that. Like, my nephew who, basically grew up in our home, he's one of my best friends. I mean, my nephew is like...
Padideh Jafari:He's almost like a younger brother to me, but he's really, like my best friend. And he's my therapist as I like to call it because he's been through everything with us. And you met his mom, you met my sister, So I remember that my nephew, when I was separating said to me something that still to this day, it's like, like hurt my heart so much. He said, You know he just buried you to use you. And I said, what?
Padideh Jafari:And he said, you know he was just using you, right? You do know that, right? And I said, no. I mean, this is stupid me, right? After seven years of being abused and abused, I said, no, you know, we didn't love each other and you know, we just...
Padideh Jafari:He kinda looked at me like I was an idiot because I'm sorry, but I was at the time. He said, no, auntie. He says, auntie. He says, auntie, he was using you. You just didn't know it at the time.
Padideh Jafari:And he said, You were really foolish. And we could see it, but we couldn't say anything because then you'd cut us off. And so they really do marry to secure a servant, and I was a very loyal servant. Yeah.
Jon McKenney:It's like this. Know, the image that comes to my mind is like a serf, you know, a landowner, and he's got serf little minions that he kinda directs around, and I think that's absolutely correct. I think they want somebody to spin around them and orbit around them and take care of absolutely everything, and you have to handle it all while they kinda sit back and do nothing.
Padideh Jafari:I mean, I was doing pickups, drop offs for his daughter. I was writing the spousal support, child support checks. I was... I mean, to say that I was handling it all, and I was a full time divorce attorney. It wasn't like I was, you know, it's like I was doing...
Padideh Jafari:When I tell you I was shouldering everything to the point where my mom, and we lived ten minutes away, she would tell me that my back was hunched. She said, know, why are you... Like, physically, John, my back was hunched because I had so much pressure. I had the pressure of, you know, running a law firm and all that that entails as an entrepreneur. Then I had the pressure of, you know, obviously divorce law work, which is not easy.
Padideh Jafari:And then I had the pressure of him and his daughter, which his daughter I loved. You know, she was seven when I met her in '14 when we divorced. But I literally, physically, my mom would say, I don't even know who you are. And I'd say, Mom, I'm just keeping my family together. And my mom's infamous line, she would always say, is, What family are you referring Because you're taking care of everything, and he's not there.
Padideh Jafari:He's either gone on vacation by himself. He would go to these nude colony things. What? I know, I know. It was just gross.
Padideh Jafari:This nude colony things by himself, because I wasn't going. I was a Christian, so I was like, I'm not going to that.
Jon McKenney:Good for you.
Padideh Jafari:And I was taking care of his daughter, so the daughter's mom and I became unfriendly terms. I mean, never likes me, but she literally said to me, she's like, Good luck with him.
Jon McKenney:Like, good
Padideh Jafari:luck. Because they had been married nine and a half years. So I didn't know what she was referring to. I was like, Okay, I'll take him. And then I was like, can I give them back?
Padideh Jafari:You know?
Jon McKenney:Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've probably said this before, but... And if you have your binge listening to our podcast and you heard this like five podcasts ago, it was last year when we recorded this. So if I've said this before, you'll forgive me.
Jon McKenney:But I can remember in a fight once with my ex, I said to her, think my idea of what I think you believe a solid marriage is is where I give everything and take nothing, and you take everything and give nothing. And her eyes lit up and got wild, and she looked at me and she goes, Yes. That's exactly what I want. That's exactly it. And that's the mentality when you get into a marriage like this with a narcissist.
Jon McKenney:They are... They're not interested in partnership. They're interested in indentured servitude.
Padideh Jafari:Yes. I'm laughing, John, not because of what you had to go through the hell. I mean now looking absurd. Now looking back, it's just like, yeah. You know?
Padideh Jafari:I mean, they tell on themselves. Right? They, there's moments of clarity where they tell on themselves. My my ex husband would say, I just want you to let me do sexually what I wanna do, and then I'll come home to you. And I'm like, is this supposed to be like
Padideh Jafari:like Are
Jon McKenney:you out of your effing mind?
Padideh Jafari:Yeah. And this wasn't even like, not not to say that I'd be okay with this, but this wasn't even like being with other women. This was like being with other men. I mean, this was like really debased type of stuff, John. And it was like and by the way, he said this again, like a couple years ago, he said to me, he said, I'm now remarried.
Padideh Jafari:This is his third marriage. No judgment if you've been married three times. He said, this is my third marriage. And he said, the thing about her that I love, he literally wrote this to me. He said, she lets me do whatever I want.
Padideh Jafari:She's actually an ex Playboy playmate. So maybe her way of doing things, like, is different, but I don't think anybody's okay with their... Like, because you could get so many diseases. Right? If you're, like, doing all this.
Padideh Jafari:So he said, the thing about her that I love that you did not have and you did not let me do was she lets me... And she says, don't tell, don't ask type of philosophy. And I was like, I didn't respond, but I was like, F you, really? I don't give a shit. He still came back fifteen years later to tell me this.
Jon McKenney:Well, the most bizarre thing about this, and as you're sitting here talking about this, I'm going, And they normalize it. This is just normal. Normal every day. With my ex, yeah, mean, you're supposed to give everything while I take everything, and you get nothing, and I'm gonna give nothing. And that's just normal behavior, and this is the way marriage goes.
Jon McKenney:Or your ex is going, yeah, I think I'm just gonna go have sex with other people, then I'll come back to you. Yeah, I don't Like this is just okay. This is a guy who worked in a church.
Padideh Jafari:Yes. Well, he did ministry work, and he was youth pastor at one time, but he got kicked out of that because
Jon McKenney:I of
Padideh Jafari:wonder sexual why. And then his first ex wife, they were together nine and a half years. And so, yeah, and then he cheated on her several times. So this was a pattern of behavior, but that, like you're saying, it was very... He was trying to normalize it for me.
Padideh Jafari:And I was like, no, I'm not the one to do this. And maybe there are women that are just like, but they're also doing it too. Right? So it's like, okay, well, we'll have an open relationship. Again, no judgment if that's...
Padideh Jafari:But as a Christian woman that's like born again, like, no, ew, that's not what I believe in. When I actually separated, I felt like a load had been lifted off my shoulders. Like physically, I could see that load be lifted because I said, I can take care of myself, but to take care of this man's like trauma and like deep rooted issues, that was too much for one person, John. And so, anyway, if you're if you're in that situation right now, just know when you walk away, you will find yourself again and you will heal. Even if you miss them, even if you really love them, because I believe that I really did love him, you will heal because you won't have that sort of monkey on your back.
Jon McKenney:And we have to say this too. It's entirely possible that you may be in a relationship with somebody, and you're dating them, and you see some of this stuff. And I know Padilla well enough to know that our advice would be the same, run away quick. If begin to see these kinds of things before you're married, and if you've been together long enough with a narcissist, it's entirely possible that you could actually see this stuff beforehand. So if you're seeing some of this beforehand, and, you know, it's only gonna get worse as you stay connected with them.
Jon McKenney:And and not not only not only do they want you to be their their slaves, and it really is kind of indentured servitude, they want you to be a slave, they want all of your resources, and they marry for what you have.
Padideh Jafari:100%.
Jon McKenney:Padita talked about using you. They do use you, but they marry you for the things you have. They marry you for what you have, not who you are. So they may love the cars, they may love the money, they may love the sex. I had a buddy at the gym tell me, you know, he was dating this girl, and she said, buy me a Louis Vuitton Louis Vuitton purse.
Jon McKenney:And he's like, what? Yeah. I want I want a purse. If we're gonna keep going out, you need to get me a purse. I'm like...
Jon McKenney:And he's like... He was... They were in a... In his boat at the time, and he he said, you're serious, aren't you? She goes, absolutely.
Jon McKenney:He got behind the the wheel of the boat, and he headed right back to shore, he let her off. And he's like, yep. That's it. Again, these these things these things matter. Some of the things that they want are, again, is money.
Jon McKenney:Most narcissists in some way, shape, or form are all about money. Yes. Many are all about sex. Probably more men than women. Women tend to go either way.
Jon McKenney:Either they give you a lot of sex or they give you none. There's kind of not an in between for them. I'm gonna use this word. It's sperm. They want your sperm so you can have kids.
Jon McKenney:So they can have kids with you. They see that as a resource from you. Anything,
Padideh Jafari:just to cut you off really quick, sorry about this. Anything to secure their future with you Because remember, they're looking for a servant. So if they know, okay, I'm gonna get a baby, right, they use that baby as a tool, not because they want a child, because they normally ignore their child and despise their children, but just another way to lock you in. So don't forget we said that here.
Jon McKenney:Yep, and they may not love the child, but they love child support. Again, they can go either way. They may not like the children. Some narcissists don't, and others, covert narcissists, tend to be more attached to the children, even on the other Either side, way, they're not expressing love to the kid. So...
Jon McKenney:But it can appear either way. I'll tell you what else they love and they consider a resource is prestige and power and authority. And I can remember my ex telling me, you know, I want to be admired. Gross. Yeah.
Jon McKenney:She... You know, as I look back on our relationship, I worked in a big church at one time, I remember her feeling like somebody because I had this position. And then when I got out of that position, it was doing something on a much smaller scale. She's like, I really just want affirmation and I want admiration. I wanna be admired.
Jon McKenney:And that admiration comes with somebody who's eye candy perhaps and has a lot of authority. In a job that she held prior, she knew all of the county commissioners and was very proud of the fact that she knew all the county commissioners. So there's this prestige that you may have, and as you have it, they feel like it spills over onto them, and it gives them power, and it gives them admiration, and it gives them prestige as well.
Padideh Jafari:That's so that's so true. That's so true. I remember my ex telling everyone that I was a lawyer, and then he told me years later after we were divorced, he he wrote to me. Because you guys, he writes to me all the time, DMs me the whole thing through different channels.
Jon McKenney:I know. You you block. He finds you. You block. He finds you.
Jon McKenney:You block. He finds you.
Padideh Jafari:And he said, you know, told the girlfriend that... This girl I was dating, my girlfriend that, you know, my ex wife was a lawyer, you know, so you gotta step it up. So it's like they will use it as a weapon and as a shield, whatever benefits them. But it's like when married, we he would say, If you ever leave me, no one's gonna want you because you're an older lawyer. Mind you, I was in my early thirties.
Padideh Jafari:So there was like, know, And he would say, nobody wants a lawyer. Who would wanna who would wanna date or marry a lawyer? Like, I was some chump change. Right? So they'll use it against you, but it's exactly what John is saying.
Padideh Jafari:Like, they're just bad people, guys. You just... If you're in a relationship with them, you need to run. These are red, red, red flags.
Jon McKenney:Well, not just... Well, it's not easy to run sometimes either. Narcissists, oftentimes, because they want all of this stuff from you, if they stay with you, it's because they want to keep this stuff. So you may have somebody who's talking about the ideation phase kind of ending, You know, they aren't so interested in you anymore, and they haven't taken on your personality. They don't take on your personality anymore, and oftentimes they do this thing called a discard, and they can discard in one of two ways.
Jon McKenney:They can discard you physically. That's where they leave you, oftentimes for somebody else. And then other times, they discard you emotionally, but they stay with you. And one of the reasons they'll stay with you is because of this. They've got all your stuff.
Jon McKenney:They've got your power. They've got your prestige. They've got your authority. They've got your cash. They've got your sex.
Jon McKenney:They've got your kids. They've got your family, and these things, they begin to all take on themselves, and sometimes they'll stay with you, but if they stay with you, it's not because they love you. They stay with you because they get to keep these things, and there's no other real reason to stay with you.
Padideh Jafari:Right. I mean, and also, where are they going? Right? Because they have to retrain. They have to retrain the new person.
Padideh Jafari:So like, where are they going? And mind you, they're already considering themselves single. So it's not like, you know what I mean? Married narcissist is still a single narcissist because believe me, I have seen this for twenty four years being a divorce attorney and having my own relationship with my ex husband, they are single. There are stuff that you don't know.
Padideh Jafari:Like sometimes with my clients, John, with the high conflict narcissistic people, I can see it because I never represent them. I always represent the innocent spouse. What I... They say... I tell them, I say, you're gonna see some stuff when we get the financials back and you go through things, or you're gonna see...
Padideh Jafari:I said, You're gonna see some stuff that is going to make you realize that this decision to walk away was the right decision. And they always come back like once we get the financials or we get the bank statements, they're like, Wait a minute. Like I had a situation recently, we went through the financials and I sent the financials to my client. She's divorcing a sheriff, a retired sheriff. And so she said, None of these are mine.
Padideh Jafari:And he went to Coach and bought all these things. And then I said, Well, okay, well, what... And she's like, He doesn't even shop at Coach for me, so I don't know. Then he'll find out he had a mistress she had no idea about. Wow.
Padideh Jafari:And they were together thirty five years. And she's like, In many ways she said, I'm relieved to find this out. In other ways she's like, What a slap in the face. I gave this man thirty five years. And I kept saying to her, you know what?
Padideh Jafari:You did the right thing. Because thirty five years could have been forty five years, right? Absolutely. And so it's been a nightmare, John, getting her divorce finalized because as a sheriff, he thinks he knows everything, and he's been intimidating us. And I have to get escorted by the sheriff that sits inside the courthouse to our car.
Padideh Jafari:He's just awful, but... And, you know, he thinks I have a personal vendetta against him. I'm like, I really don't. I just think you're an awful human, and I'm just getting my client the resolution that she so desperately needs and wants. So...
Padideh Jafari:But anyway, they will do all of these things. And and you peel the onion. A lot of my clients say, I feel like I'm peeling back the onion, and I don't know what I'm gonna find in the center, but I know it's not gonna be good.
Jon McKenney:It's not good. It's never good. It's never good. I mean, ultimately, they marry for things that are inappropriate. They marry to be worshiped.
Jon McKenney:The image I've always had is kind of them sitting in the center like the earth and the moon spinning about them. That's the image. They want somebody to orbit around them, and that makes them feel like somebody. It makes them feel powerful. It makes them feel strong.
Jon McKenney:And ultimately, you know, the other thing I think that they strive to do, and one of the reasons they marry, is they want to control you.
Padideh Jafari:100%.
Jon McKenney:And in control... If they can control you, they control your resources. They control your money.
Padideh Jafari:Your friends?
Jon McKenney:Your friends, absolutely. Your family. I mean, and and these things that they control, and they... You probably don't even realize as it's happening. I I didn't realize my my ex was had had control over my family, like my parents.
Jon McKenney:I didn't I didn't realize that, but she'd forged this really tight relationship with them, and they're kind of alike. So, you know, I'm not not necessarily surprised, but she controls... Controlled that relationship. So when it came time for me to pull the plug, my parents were like, we ain't even talking to you. We're not we're not discussing this with you.
Jon McKenney:My own parents. Why? Because because she was able to control
Padideh Jafari:The narrative.
Jon McKenney:My family. You know? The narrative and in doing so, also my family. So so they... As there's this...
Jon McKenney:You know, as they as they your resources, there's this play to go control those things over time. So anything you have, they want control over it, and they do that through you. They do it oftentimes through sex as well. They try to control you and they try to manipulate you, and marriage is the ultimate in control.
Padideh Jafari:Right.
Jon McKenney:So they have, now you're now you're legally bound as well, so so it becomes a ridiculous amount of control. The two shall become one, and they have control over the things that that you've owned and actually begin to possess them, and that's that's ultimately one of the other reasons that that that they they marry. They they wanna control you.
Padideh Jafari:Right. And you know what? They marry early. They want... They do the love bombing really well.
Padideh Jafari:You're addicted to the love bombing stage because you're like, oh, this is like... This is paradise. This is what they... It's... It could all be.
Padideh Jafari:And you're always thinking you're going back there, but that wasn't real because they were not genuinely doing it for love and compassion and all the good things. And then now you are chasing that and you stay with them and they usually, like John said, have children right away, move in right away, all the things, and now you feel stuck. And John has said this before in other episodes. It's like, you're stuck in this like muck and you're like trying to get out, but they bring in all these problems, issues, accidents, work issues, all these things, and you're like, how can I escape this? And you don't even know that you're in that muck because you're in that muck.
Padideh Jafari:And anybody, friends or family that try to warn you, like my nephew try, it's like, we don't wanna hear it because it's like, no, no, no. But there's, in the pit of our stomach, we know that there's something wrong, right? Where like something is just amiss, but you're chasing that high from the beginning of the courtship where it wasn't genuine. And so you're like, but I know but I know but I know he could be that... Because he was like this in the beginning.
Padideh Jafari:And seven years later, you're like, oh, crap. It was just an act. This person was literally an actor in my life.
Jon McKenney:Really true.
Padideh Jafari:I sacrificed so much. And so just know that there is a way to get out because we've done it. There is a way to get out.
Jon McKenney:And let me let me talk about... I mean, you know, divorce is a thing. Let's let's also talk about getting in. Looking back, I wish I'd done a couple of things. One, Padilla kind of addressed.
Jon McKenney:She said that narcissist moves quick... Move quickly. And in retrospect, if I could go rewind time, dated her for three months. I know you guys that are listening to this wanna bitch slap me just hearing it. I I dated her for three months, and then I proposed.
Jon McKenney:Like, what the hell was I thinking?
Padideh Jafari:Well, you were also a... You were a pastor. Right? So it's like you're not gonna... Listen, you're gonna think the best of people because John, you're a good person yourself.
Padideh Jafari:So I understand that because you're like, okay, well, she's doing all the things and she's my soul mate. And I'm not gonna sleep outside of my marriage. Right? Correct. So I need to get married.
Padideh Jafari:So that I totally understand. So don't beat yourself up about that.
Jon McKenney:If I could go back and turn back time, I would... I'd I'd take a longer time to go date the person I was dating. I do think you need at least a year. You wanna go through a good time with them, you wanna go through bad times with them, you wanna see how they handle conflict, how they handle criticism, you wanna travel with them. I got a buddy who traveled with somebody he was dating just recently, he's like, nope.
Jon McKenney:No.
Padideh Jafari:Travel. No. Travel and miss your flight and see what happens. Are they going to go ham on the, you know
Jon McKenney:Yep.
Padideh Jafari:Are they gonna explode, explode? Or or are are they they gonna gonna just sit there and say, you know what, that's another couple hours I get with you at the airport, or let's go get a drink, or let's... All of this will reveal who they are because even though narcissists are really good at putting on the mask, when that mask slips, boy does it slip. True. And you better listen, you better pay attention, you better say, You know what, I'm not gonna make an excuse.
Padideh Jafari:There's something wrong. And if you feel that in the pit of your stomach... On my side, we dated off and on for two years. And it was the reason was, I'm gonna say this, and I'm probably gonna get a lot of heat for this, but he wasn't divorced yet. So he wasn't divorced yet.
Padideh Jafari:Was in the middle, and divorce in California takes longer period of time. And so he wasn't divorced yet. We were dating, and I would break up with him, and I'd be like, thank God I got rid of him. And then he'd come back around, you know, with the love bombing and all the things. And during the time when we would break up, I would still be dating or, you know, I wouldn't be dating or whatever it was.
Padideh Jafari:And I just, John, I just wish I knew. I just wish I just wish, like, I would take a pause and just say, you know what? And I would compare, right? Because you're dating other people in the interim and you're like, no, but this guy's just so much better. Like, he's so much better.
Padideh Jafari:Like, one of the things he did is he bought a video camera. This is back in the day. Right? He would buy a video camera so that when I took my parents to Hawaii for the first time, I could have videos of my parents. Well, that was a really nice gesture.
Padideh Jafari:Looking back on it though, it was just love bombing. Was just like love bombing. It wasn't genuine. And so all that to say that you just really need to take your time and trust your gut. I wish I had trusted my gut.
Jon McKenney:So let me ask you something. I don't know if I've ever asked you this question before. Because as I'm thinking about... I mean, obviously, divorce is getting out and the others kinda getting in, keeping somebody from getting into a relationship. Do you think that if you had a close friend who'd seen the both of you and you'd kinda given them permission to say, alright.
Jon McKenney:What do you think? And they told you. Do you think it would have changed things? Because I look back. I I don't...
Jon McKenney:I think if somebody close to me had seen her... And maybe maybe she didn't act out in front of them anyways because, again, the... You know, there's the love bombing phase up front where they idealize you and everything's ideation. They like you, they like this, and maybe your friends only see that anyways. But let's hypothesize for a second that you've been doing this for a year with somebody and they know your story and they know her story, and they they...
Jon McKenney:You ask them. You give them permission to tell you the truth. What do you think? And they tell you. Because I wish I'd had that.
Jon McKenney:I wish I had somebody who'd said, here's what I see. And do you think it made a difference for you?
Padideh Jafari:I don't know because I did have a friend from elementary school actually. She had met him and she had said, You know what? This is not good. And I stopped talking to her. I literally stopped communicating with her.
Padideh Jafari:And then years after the divorce, I reached back out and we're friends now. So there was an element of that. I want to tell you something though. He was a drug, okay? He was not just a regular guy off the street.
Padideh Jafari:For me, and I grew up in LA, guys. I was a goody two shoes. I never tried any hard drugs. I never did any of that. Back then there were Zemas, and I would have like one or two Zemas, and then we'd see
Jon McKenney:that there's a throwback.
Padideh Jafari:Yeah, we'd party on sunset, but I had to be home because I had a very strict Iranian father. So I wasn't doing any of that, but he literally felt like a drug. Like he's... I I don't know. Like I needed to be around him and with him at all times and he was the same with me.
Padideh Jafari:So she did try to warn me, but I thought it came from a a jealousy place. What was she jealous of? I mean, this guy was a nightmare. And then secondly, I think if really someone sat me down and said, you know, he actually went to pick up his daughter once and his ex wife had a book on like a narcissism and somebody I guess had left that book for her to pick up from her porch. And he came back and he said, Oh, you know, she has a book about narcissism.
Padideh Jafari:I wonder if she thinks I'm a narcissist. Now this is twenty years ago. Okay.
Jon McKenney:So this
Padideh Jafari:And is a I said, Oh, I didn't even know what that word meant. And I said, Narcissist, like you're the most loving and kindest and best father. Like I'm just so dumb, okay? And I just would make excuses and I would, because he had so much trauma from his childhood, I would always just be loving and caring and like his savior. Like if you have a savior complex, like meeting a narcissist is like the worst thing because they always need saving from themselves.
Jon McKenney:Right.
Padideh Jafari:They'd be like, She's like the devil and you are the saint. What do you mean narcissist? And I was dumb enough not to even look that word up twenty years ago. But that was definitely, either she was putting a sign for him to come and see that, or a friend of hers just dropped off that book and was telling her, informing the ex wife, like, he's a narcissist. And so I don't know how to answer that question honestly.
Padideh Jafari:Like, I just... I fell head over heels for a demon, literally. Like Mhmm. Satan Satan himself, I fell for him I
Jon McKenney:like to think that if somebody had pulled me aside that I respected and trusted who knew me and knew her, And they said, what what the hell are you doing? This is just not... There's something about this. It's just not right, and here's what I see. I I like to think that I would have been smart enough to...
Jon McKenney:For it to at least have given me pause and to rethink it, but my hunch is I'd probably gone through with it.
Padideh Jafari:Yeah. There's... You gotta understand, they're master manipulators. They've been doing this since their trauma began. So they are master manipulators.
Padideh Jafari:I'm telling you, I had a friend from elementary school and she's a sweetheart. And she said to me, she goes, there is something wrong with this guy. He's got anger issues, he dislikes women, he's leaving his marriage of nine and a half years with his first wife. My father warned me, my father said, What are you doing? My brothers warned, I mean, people warned me, John.
Padideh Jafari:And I was like, I have no idea what you guys are talking about because what I was getting from him was so, I hate to say juicy and good. Yeah. It was so good and great and like Utopia, it was Utopia. But I had my head buried so deep in the sand. So it's just hard.
Padideh Jafari:It's hard to go back, but I wanna tell you something. If you're in this situation, God has a plan for you. Like if you've gone the wrong way and now you're trying to set the stage straight, God has a plan for you. And it took me eight years, well, actually seven years of self discovery, lots and lots of therapy. I mean, was seeing two therapists at the same time at one time.
Padideh Jafari:I mean, I was so wounded and like it was so tragic that I met my husband. And when I met him, he was seven years divorced as well. And so we really walked slowly. We dated for three years, and this is also during COVID. So now I can tell you that I have a happy marriage, literally a happy marriage.
Padideh Jafari:We have peace in our home. We barely never fight. And we're we're we're we're similar, but we're also different individuals. And John has met my husband. Nice guy.
Padideh Jafari:Just a nice guy, doesn't try to use, doesn't try to do the power trip.
Jon McKenney:Stable.
Padideh Jafari:I'm trying to be a judge now, and that's... I'm on the judge track now. And just never says like, oh, you know, you're gonna... No. He's like, I'm so proud of you.
Padideh Jafari:Like, I am so proud of you. I get to watch you, you know, advance in your career. And he doesn't take credit for it. Like all the things, it's just like, wow, this is what it's like to be truly loved, seen, and supported. So there is hope for you.
Jon McKenney:Yeah. And I'm happily unmarried. You know, on the other side of it, don't know that I'll ever get married again, but like Padita described, my home is filled with peace, and I have great friends, and that's really all I need. And if the Lord happens to bring somebody along, that would be amazing too, but I don't have to have somebody. So there is another side to this.
Jon McKenney:If you if you're on the the nearer side and you're you're dating somebody who controls you or tries to manipulate you or likes the things, but you wonder if they like you, take a minute and hear from us. Maybe you should just take a pause for a minute and just listen to what we're saying, and and maybe and this isn't the best thing for you. Because ultimately, the... If if you if you're... You marry somebody who wants to control you, the marriage is their biggest play.
Padideh Jafari:Yes.
Jon McKenney:You you can't you you can't undoing it like there's a way out. Yes. But undoing it is not is not easy. You know, I think sometimes... I had a friend of mine, Dave, once say that once say that, you know, when you get out of a relationship, it's not like you cut the tree down and it's clean.
Jon McKenney:You're left with this clean stump. He says it's more like uprooting the tree where you've got dirt and roots and all this mess around, and that's kind of what it's like to have to divorce. It's messy, and you'll wind up losing things that were precious to you through the process. So if you're on the near side of this, hear our words and just... Take a minute to realize what you have and what you're in.
Jon McKenney:And if you can get out now, now's the easier... Now's the better time to go do it because it's far easier now than it is later. Trust us. We've been through the other side of it. It's very hard.
Padideh Jafari:Yeah. And I would tell you that my client, because there's a lot of downtime between court cases, that was married for thirty five years, I asked her once, what do you regret most? And you know what she said? Not getting out sooner.
Jon McKenney:Yeah.
Padideh Jafari:And she said, I stayed for my kids because he's a sheriff, right? And she said, I feared and I stayed, but she said, I wish I had gotten sooner and they're her two adult children. Don't talk to their father. And and she said, I I wish I'd given them a better childhood by leaving, not by staying.
Jon McKenney:Yeah. I think it's... I think it says something when you leave, right, also to your kids? Yes. I'm I'm not willing...
Jon McKenney:Especially particularly when you're you're with a narcissist, I... I'm not gonna tolerate this.
Padideh Jafari:Correct. You shouldn't
Jon McKenney:And and you... And and that's exactly it. And in doing so, you teach them that they shouldn't tolerate these kinds of things either.
Padideh Jafari:The daughter, I will tell you the daughter, I've spoken to her several times, the daughter is not getting married ever. She told me that. She said, I just want you to know that this has been... My mom staying with him has so traumatized me. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a divorce attorney guys, because I believe I'm a hopeful romantic.
Padideh Jafari:So don't take this as like, oh, she wants everyone getting divorced. No, I want people to stay in healthy marriages. And she told me, she said, I will never get married. She said, This was so traumatic that my mom stayed and we saw the abuse and she wanted to testify actually in court. And I don't like kids, I don't care if they're adults to testify against.
Padideh Jafari:And I said, We don't really need you, it was for the domestic violence. I said, But, she said, I wish my mom had left when I was a baby so I would have had a chance to see maybe being raised by a wonderful woman on her own, or if she had remarried a nice guy, but she said, This has ruined me completely.
Jon McKenney:I bet.
Padideh Jafari:So take, like John said, take our words, do with it whatever you will. And there's no judgment if you decide to stay, but I will tell you one thing, narcissists as they age, there was a clinical study done, as they age, they get worse, not better.
Jon McKenney:Way worse,
Padideh Jafari:They really get, and this is a clinical study that was done. They get worse, not better. So if you're thinking, well, you know, once the kids leave and it'll get better or, you know, she or he is getting older and it'll get better. No, no, no, no, no. It's going to get worse for you.
Jon McKenney:It's really true. Person, narcissists living lives and the more lies you absorb in life, the worse off you get. And they just... They don't want help. So
Padideh Jafari:And they want to... Ultimately, not only do they not want help, they want they want you like I was, my back hunched, you know, in cancer, dying. They want you dead. Like their whole mission is not to love and adore you, but to like make you sick and die. Because then they get then they get all the, like, all the benefits because they get your life insurance.
Padideh Jafari:They get their money, and like, oh, yeah. I'm a widower now. And then they'll they'll weaponize being a widow... Widower. I'm telling This is the truth.
Jon McKenney:It's deeper than you know. It is deeper than you know. Well, Padilla, it's been a great conversation today, and now people know why narcissists marry, and we hope you're not controlled by them. We hope you've enjoyed the podcast. You can look for other podcasts on Spotify or on Apple Music or wherever podcasts are shown.
Jon McKenney:You can look us up also at the narcissistabuserecoverychannel.com. Padida and I each have Instagram accounts as well. She does TikTok as well. She's Jafari Legal on TikTok and Instagram and I'm Male Victims of Female Narcissists on Instagram you can look us up there too and we hope that you have a wonderful wonderful day and that you live narcissist free.
Padideh Jafari:Thank you for listening to the Narcissist Abuse Recovery Channel. Be sure to follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. To hear other episodes or read the associated blogs, visit www.narcissistabuserecoverychannel.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram with the handle Narc. Podcast. The guest views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are their own.
Padideh Jafari:The information presented is for general informational purposes only and is not intended to be legal advice. The co hosts are not licensed therapists. Seek professional help as information is often state specific.