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This is your go-to podcast for all things marketing, branding, and customer experience. We’re bringing you honest and fun conversations with bite-sized insights. Hosted by BrightSign’s CMO Brian Rowley and Head of Integrated Marketing Laura Smith, you’ll hear from industry pros, creatives, and innovators about what’s actually working in today’s evolving, digital-first world. No fluff — just real insights on how brands are connecting with audiences and driving growth. Tune in for fresh ideas, big thinking, and all the tips you need to take your marketing game to the next level.
I feel like I have a responsibility to piss some people off with the cold hard light of day in the in the speaking truth to power piece. And someday that'll end, and I cannot wait until it does.
Laura Smith:Welcome to Prose + Comms,: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:And I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:If you work in PR and marketing, you've probably felt the pressure to show up on LinkedIn, but you also might fear saying the wrong thing or sounding fake or foolish. We talk about authenticity all the time on this podcast, but somewhere along the way, it's turned into people sounding more like brands than they are humans. So today, we're excited to dig in on how to build a real LinkedIn presence and understand why getting this right actually makes you better at PR and marketing.
Brian Rowley:So Laura, on that note, would you say you're more of a poster, commenter, lurker, or a voider when it comes to LinkedIn? Just curious.
Laura Smith:I would say, I I don't call it lurking, but I love I scan LinkedIn every day. It's like where I get ton of my news, industry news, information about my network, etcetera. So I'm always on it. I will say I do engage, but it's mostly by clicking the button of like liking, sometimes sharing or, you know, whatever, laughing, whatever it may be, celebrating, supporting, etcetera. So that I guess would be not a commenter, but I'm an I'm an engager, maybe I would say.
Brian Rowley:Wasn't one of my You had to fit into one of the categories.
Laura Smith:Welcome to working with Laura. I paved my own way. So so that's my answer. But what about you, Brian?
Brian Rowley:No. I mean, I would agree. I mean, I think I wouldn't call it a lurker. I mean, I'd I mean, we both post on a on somewhat of a regular basis, right? Things that strike us, but I do spend a ton of time scanning for industry news and looking what people who are in the network are saying or things that are of interest to me.
Brian Rowley:So I'm definitely not, you know, I definitely don't post as much as I consume, I would say, but, I also don't think I'm an avoider by any stretch.
Laura Smith:No, but I think what our like, you know, amount of posting, I think our guest today will definitely think that we don't post nearly enough or what is probably the most useful compared to his posting. So while we may be quote unquote active, I think there's so much more opportunity there.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. For sure. For sure.
Laura Smith:That's a great segue. One of the reasons this topic is so interesting is that we all know people who don't just quote unquote use LinkedIn. They actually show up with a point of view, and they're not afraid to say what everyone else is thinking. Our guest today is the founder of a PR agency with more than twenty years in the industry. He's led marketing and communications for award winning firms, worked with companies he genuinely believes in, and is known for being transparent and fearless when it comes to how PR should actually work.
Laura Smith:He's also built a real presence on LinkedIn by telling it like it is. So today, we're gonna talk with him about what authenticity really looks like on LinkedIn specifically, and what marketers and PR pros get wrong about visibility, and how a strong voice can make you better at your job. Please welcome Parry Headrick. Good to be here with you.
Brian Rowley:Hey, Parry. Welcome.
Laura Smith:We're excited to have you.
Brian Rowley:You know, obviously Laura and I follow you, but you're also definitely known for being very active and I don't think this is gonna surprise you by any stretch, but also very opinionated on LinkedIn. And, you know, one of the things that I have as a question sort of out of the gate is, you know, when you first started, I mean, was that your intent or did that actually happen accidentally? Is that who you are or did that just stumble across and you saw a good feedback from an that that is something I'm really curious about.
Parry Headrick:Yeah. It's a good question. So I guess to answer it properly, I would have to go backward a little bit. So I I've spent, you know, the majority of my twenty plus year career working as, the head of marketing for some of the largest PR agencies on the planet. And as a result of that, my job was to bring in a bunch of new business and, do no harm, essentially.
Parry Headrick:So you wanna bring in the revenue, you want to grow your book of business as much as you can, and you wanna grow the agency. That's your that's your job, that's your first task. When I started my, agency Crackle PR, it was the first time that I had agency over what I actually did and said that didn't directly affect anybody other than me. And so it was also during the bowels of the pandemic when, as you may recall, most of us were staring at the walls of our house thinking, what in the fuck am I gonna do now? Because the world was crumbling.
Parry Headrick:There were riots in the street. It was crazy. And what I wanted to do was connect in some real way with other people, while we were pinned in our homes. And so I thought LinkedIn would be the the place to do that. And I think on top of that, what I was trying to do was just have real conversations with people instead of trying to sugarcoat, which was obviously a dumpster fire at that point.
Parry Headrick:And so I thought, I'm starting an agency now. I'm I'm just gonna be laying it out there as authentically and as real as I can. And there's some segment of this audience out there that is gonna react to that in a positive way. And you get back from the world what you put out in it. And that was kinda like my my opening salvo was like, I'm just gonna be who the hell I am and say what I actually think and let the chips fall where they may.
Parry Headrick:The only person I'm gonna let down if it fails is me.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, I can imagine that actually has got to be a little bit freeing because quite honestly, if we are honest, we all in the roles that we're in are somewhat censored based on potentially the companies that we're working for or, you know, we don't want to offend X group of people or Y group of people. And so I would assume that, you know, being able to do that is gotta be somewhat freeing. I mean, I would think that it's probably why you've gotten the response that you've got and received, right? In regards to it, because I would argue and say that there's probably not enough of that out there. And I think we're all somewhat guilty of that because we can't always say what we're thinking.
Brian Rowley:Right? We we we don't always have the luxury to be able to do that.
Parry Headrick:For sure. And so to that point, I get I would get it on average probably 20 different people in comms and and PR roles in my DMs, like, regularly saying, oh, thank god somebody said that. Or, like, would you write a post about this? It'd be so nice if somebody actually said that. So there there's definitely a groundswell of people who are relieved that there are a few of us out there that can actually say what we we we really think.
Parry Headrick:And so it's not just about PR, although I that's the lion's share of what I talk about. But I like to dispel myths about PR, what works, what doesn't, the good, the bad, the ugly, you know, agency tricks and and, you know, all the the the blemishes that that go along with what we do. But I also am able to talk candidly about things that I that matter to me, like, political things and, like, what's happening with policy, and how it might affect my clients and how it might affect my mental health. So I'm not afraid to delve into areas that, you know, are verboten quote quotation fingers on LinkedIn, because it's just a natural extension of what I've been doing all along, which is telling you what I really, really think. And so are there people that are not going to enjoy, when I talk about politics and when I talk about policy?
Parry Headrick:100%. But as I said a few minutes ago, you tend to get back from the world what you put out, and what's happened is that people are coming to me specifically because of my views on certain policies and politics and public relations. And you pick which one, they they came to my door for. I'll I'll give you a good example. Two days ago or three days ago on Martin Luther King Day, I talked about how, you know, it's the I I used the quote that that MLK did, which was, yes, there are appalling people doing appalling things, but the real appalling thing is good people saying nothing.
Parry Headrick:That was the gist of the of the post. And I said at the top of, like I'm like, I'm sure that I've lost revenue as a result of saying what I actually think on this platform. And I said, don't care. It's worth it because I've said what I actually wanna say. Fast forward to a couple days ago, my newest client actually asked my team lead to get me in touch with her because she wanted to tell me something.
Parry Headrick:I got on the phone when was driving. She's like, I just wanted to let you know that you said you probably left some revenue on the table, but I want you to know that I came to you specifically because I appreciated your boldness and your candor around things that are important to me. So, yes, I'm probably alienating some folks, but guess what? I'm also attracting a subset of people that, you know, that I think are genuinely good people and have the right intentions and want for everybody else the the goodness that I want, and and like minds tend to, tend to agree. So it's kind of a it's kind of a gamble, I suppose, but I but I'm okay with the way things have shaken out.
Parry Headrick:And the last thing I'll say on this topic is not only have I attracted clients that are ostensibly good people at good companies who wanna do good things in the world, but also I've done zero recruitment and I have a team of 20 now, PR professionals who have all self identified and reached out to me based on what I've written about on that platform, whether it's about PR, whether it's about culture, whether it's about remote work, whether it's about politics, you name it. They have come to me. So I spent $0 chasing people, but people instead raise their hands and come knocking on my door because they wanna be a part of the culture that I'm building. And in that four plus years that I've been in business, I've lost exactly three people, Two of whom found really good opportunities and I was like, hey, take care. And one other person that just wasn't a good fit.
Parry Headrick:But if you look at public relations as an industry average, it's 25% turnover per year. That's one in four people per year turns over and I've lost three in almost five years. Good for you. So something about the model is worth it.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, for sure.
Laura Smith:So Perry, like going back, right? So you've been in this business for over twenty years, as have I. So it's been a long way coming in, seeing the industry evolve. So, but when did you realize that LinkedIn was becoming a place for PR communications and conversations? So, like, when did that become you know, is it starting of your of your, company Crackle PR?
Laura Smith:Or was it before that where you started to see that being a trend?
Parry Headrick:So it's an important question. I have to go again, go back and give you some context because my relationship with LinkedIn is a little unique in the sense that I think in the first year of LinkedIn's life, I actually pitched the company twice at a former agency I worked at. It was called Shift Communications. I was VP of marketing, but I sat down with Reid Hoffman who started LinkedIn twice and tried to win his business. And we came in second place both times.
Parry Headrick:And I think in retrospect, I look back at that and I realized I did not know what the hell this company was gonna become. He did. I didn't have the vision that he had for what it is now, but I I wasn't seeing it in a way that he clearly was. And I think that's probably why we didn't win the business. So fast forward to the '20 you know, during the pandemic when that happened, and I saw that platform and people, by the way, were hungry to talk to anybody else because, we were stuck in our house.
Parry Headrick:And I started to see the companionship, the camaraderie, the hunger that other people had to connect at a human level on what had prior to that been a basically a big Rolodex. And and that was like that was kind of illuminating. And I and at that time, I hung up my shingle and I started posting ungating my brain and just talking shit about the industry. Like, here's what is terrible. Here's what I like.
Parry Headrick:Here's what I don't like. And I think it was because we tapped into the zeitgeist of that pandemic at that moment that there was such a response that I was floored. I could not believe how many people were engaging and hungry for a truth teller at that point in time. And so I think it was a combination of a lot of things. One of which though was the timing of it all.
Parry Headrick:I think I I caught it early. I think I think now that a lot of people, the word is out that LinkedIn is a platform that you wanna be on and you're conspicuously absent if you're not. I But think when I started doing it, it was kind of at the the seminal moment of when it it morphed from being that glorified Rolodex into really more of a a community and a place that can be a lot of things, not least of which is a HR recruiter, a lead gen machine, and a way to meet fabulous people you never would otherwise have met.
Laura Smith:And honestly, I think it's even looking at that camaraderie amongst the media with PR professionals. Right? Like, you never really saw that those relationships be as as close knit or seeing a lot of the back and forth between. And now just this seems like that barrier's down because that platform embraces and encourages that type of interaction. So I think it's like coming from a PR agency.
Parry Headrick:I think that's so true. And to that point, Laura, I've had you know, I've been in this is not an exercise in braggadocio. I'm just saying to your point, I've had people reach out on that platform from Wall Street Journal, you know, Inc Magazine, New York I've been in all these publications because reporters who are reading my stuff want to meet me, talk to me, interview me, and write about me. And that was under there was no chance that was happening prior to LinkedIn becoming what it is today. So yes, 100% the the the journalists and the PR people and the subjects of the journalism focuses are all in one place, in one melting pot, and it is fantastic what little opportunities you can unearth even when you least expect it.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. You mentioned engagement a couple of times and obviously sitting in the role of marketers, That's obviously the ultimate for all of us, right? How do we get people to engage with us? You also mentioned timing and we also know that you have definitely a point of view on many things. Consistency is another thing like, what do you see?
Brian Rowley:Is it a combination of all of those things that are what's driving the engagement? Is it something else? Or I'm just curious to your perspective because we would all love to find the secret sauce to engagement. And like I said, you mentioned a couple of these things. I'm just curious, like what actually drives it?
Parry Headrick:So I guess the best way to answer that is LinkedIn for me isn't plan b, it's plan a. There is no plan b. So I I regard that platform with seriousness of purpose because it generates over 90% of my leads and all of my people. So it's it's not something that I get to when I have time. It's mission critical for how I run my business.
Parry Headrick:And LinkedIn doesn't pay me, although that sounded like a pretty kick ass ad for them. But but it but it has become Nice try, Perry.
Brian Rowley:Mission that conversation.
Parry Headrick:That that's the whole that's the whole game for me. I get, you know, referrals of course and all that, but my primary, at bats for all of my people and all of my companies that we have on our roster come from come from that platform. So I make the time and I prioritize it above almost everything else in my business because I know that in the past two years, I've had over 20,000,000 views on my content back to back years, over 20,000,000 views. You tell me what other free platform you're gonna get that kind of, you know, eyeballs, or or engagement with your content. It's just unheard of.
Parry Headrick:And I know LinkedIn's algorithm is changing a little bit. It's become more frustrating for people who are, you know, seeing a lot less sort of reach and all that. But the algo gonna do what the algo gonna do, and it'll come back around again. And, you know, it's changed so many times that I can't even keep it straight. So to to answer your question is it's mission critical for me, and it should be mission critical for anybody who's serious about organic reach as a way of brand visibility and increasing your audience, through trust.
Parry Headrick:And the way to do that is by ungating your brain and giving everything you've got, the good, the bad, the ugly, and stop being self aggrandizing about how wonderful your company is. No one gives a shit about that. They care what you think about the industry directionally. They care what you think about, from an ethical standpoint. They care what you think about, tips and tricks, but they don't care about you pumping your chest, talking about how wonderful you are.
Laura Smith:So so what metrics matter to you? So when you're looking at, like, just mentioned impressions and eyeballs, you mentioned leads. But like when you're looking all the content, because you're constantly posting again, I I follow you. I see you actively. When you say, okay, this post kinda tanked.
Laura Smith:Like, what are you looking at?
Parry Headrick:I think there's a a few things there. I think, obviously, there's like a dopamine rush associated with posts that start taking off. But I found that the posts that are the most sort of viral and that people are sharing and going crazy over do not tend to translate into opportunity for me. It's it's the post that no one's commenting on really. You see that there's some people looking, but then you get a DM from somebody who's never commented ever.
Parry Headrick:And and that one particular interesting angle you took resonated with them and then they reach out. So, like, that kind of stuff is interesting to As as far as metrics go, probably the most important metric from a PR agency owner standpoint is that prior to being active on LinkedIn and in my former lives as, you know, marketing head at these large tech companies, it used to take forever to close a piece of business. And and and the the process was something like this. You'd get a an RFP over the transom. You would take, you know, twenty to thirty hours with your team to fill out this exhaustive monster of a form, sometimes in applications like Citrix, this, like, soul sucking horrible thing.
Parry Headrick:Then they would select maybe three to five people that they want to actually take that a step further to. And so you put together a team, you fly the team to wherever it was, New York, San Francisco, whatever, which comes with its own expense, the hotels, the meals, all the bullshit, only for like a one in three or one in five chance of actually winning the business. So it was wildly speculative. And sometimes these people would just disappear after you did all that shit. Would ghost you and just choose the people they chose, never even tell you.
Parry Headrick:And it was a thankless soul sucking experience, frankly. The metric I care about now is that by the time people DM me because they've been reading my stuff for months or years, the qualification process and the vetting process is 75% of the way done. Like, we're not doing the dance and all the bullshit and, like, me filling out some absurd amount of information that they can readily pick off my website because they already know how I think, my ethos, they know what I value, what moves the needle, what metrics matter from a from a marketing standpoint, from a PR firm marketing relationship. They know all that shit. So it's like, we're at the last 25% when they reach out to me already.
Parry Headrick:And and usually, this is true, I usually close a deal. I'll I'll have somebody reach out. I'll say, let's get a call. I'll put a couple of my team members on a call with them. And it's usually one to two calls closed within a week because all the formalities are already way out of the way because they already know everything about me.
Parry Headrick:So that's the metric I care about. It is radically, radically shortened the sales cycle. And in the people that reach out to me are exactly the clients that I want anyway. And that's just Those are the two metrics that I think are just fabulous.
Brian Rowley:So I think though with being as don't know opinionated, but opinionated as you may be in some of what you're
Parry Headrick:Oh dear you.
Brian Rowley:Of what you're
Laura Smith:I mean It is what it is There's
Brian Rowley:a thing, I mean a lot of people won't take that step only because they don't wanna have to deal with responding to the negative aspect of that, right? So there are gonna be people to your point, there are people that are gonna love what you say, they're gonna be people who hate what you say. The ones that hate what you say are probably gonna react as well. Right? And and so how do you deal with that?
Brian Rowley:Like, do you respond? Do you ignore it? Like, is it clearly a, hey, I am who I am, like it or don't? Or do you actually respond to it? Like, mean, because I think there's a lot of people out here wanna do it, but I'd be curious just to get your feedback on that.
Parry Headrick:It's a great question. I think there's a clear delineation between the opinionated stuff we're talking about here. So, yes, I have a strong point of view. When we're talking about things like me talking about politics, there's no question that I am not a big fan of this current administration. I don't care if your listeners are or not, whatever, but I am not.
Parry Headrick:And I think this is a singular moment in history where it's critically important for people that have a platform to actually say what they think about what I view as an existential threat to our country. Full stop. So I am unapologetic, unabashed, and to those people that may disagree, there's all kinds of vitriol, DMs, you know, threats, like literally people calling my phone and it just all kinds of shit and I ignore all. I really just ignore all that and I use the block button liberally. Like, block, block, block, block, As it relates to opinions about public relations and retainer models and in office versus remote and like all those kinds of things.
Parry Headrick:Sure, I have a strong opinion about that, a strong point of view, But there aren't many people that viscerally hate me for that because I'm just telling I'm telling you what I believe is the truth. Like I am straight up just giving you the goods on what I believe. I know a lot of the tricks of the big agencies. I know the biggest clients that pay the most revenue, get the best teams. I know all of this.
Parry Headrick:And I think intuitively, most people that read it know it too. And there's not a lot you can really quibble with honestly, because I'm really just pulling the curtains back and saying like, is sunlight's the best disinfectant guys. This is what it is. So there's not a lot of people. They might not like what I say.
Parry Headrick:Like for example, I know some of the large conglomerate agencies hate that I'm railing against the hourly billing model because they they base that on the forty hours that interns used to spend researching shit that now AI can do in ten seconds. So how do you justify that absurd hourly billing model? How? You tell me how. So they don't like what I say, but it's difficult to disagree with what I'm saying to you, which is that's a highly inefficient, ineffective model in 2026.
Parry Headrick:So I guess what I'm saying there is the political stuff. That's fair game. People can hate me all day long and fine. I can deal with all that, but that's a very separate bucket from truths I try to talk about from the PR standpoint. The overwhelming majority of people, a, agree with what I'm saying because they live in the same world that I live in.
Parry Headrick:And B, the few who dissent tend to be a little sour grapes about the amount of engagement that I'm getting. So like, don't you have a real job? Like you're out here posting all the time. I'm like, well, is my real job, pal. This is how I pay the bills, baby.
Parry Headrick:So I hope that answers your question.
Brian Rowley:It definitely does. And I agree with you a 100%. I think that as you look at the conversations, and this is one of the things that we've tried to do here on this podcast is, you know, we try to bring different perspectives, you don't have to agree, but there are perspectives that are out there. And I think we can all learn from a different perspective than one that we may either support or agree with, right? So I mean, that's what we intended this to do.
Brian Rowley:It's to educate and it's to provide a perspective that may not be the perspective that you currently run with every single day. So I applaud it a 100%. I think there's very, to your point, very few people out there who are as authentic as you are in terms of what you say, what you see is what you get. And I actually love that about you. It's one of the reasons why we wanted you as a as a guest.
Brian Rowley:I mean, I admire that.
Parry Headrick:That's kind of you to say, you know, but I cannot tell you how I can't wait to just talk about PR. Like, I wanna just get back to talking about PR full time, and that's my intention. And as soon as I can get back to that place, I'm gonna be in a very, very happy mood. But for now, I feel like I have a responsibility to piss some people off with the cold hard light of day in the in the speaking truth to power piece. And someday that'll end, and I cannot wait until it does.
Laura Smith:So I agree, Brian. Like, what you said, like, there's no doubt Perry is very authentic. There's no doubt about that. Right? You come, you show up who you are, and there's no, apologies needed for that.
Laura Smith:So thinking about authenticity as it relates to content, that brings up the topic of AI. So how do you balance the AI, you know, assisted content with your authentic voice? Or do you just purely run on your authentic voice?
Parry Headrick:So first of all, you're speaking to my AI twin. I'm actually on a beach in Kabul right now.
Brian Rowley:He's well trained.
Laura Smith:Well, lucky you.
Parry Headrick:So look, I think AI is, there's a lot you could talk about AI. Think that's got a lot of applications. We use it primarily as note taking tools, synthesizing information, research. Sometimes we'll start drafts of things and then add the human piece to it, but it is 100% a tool that we use to supplement the human work. You if you guys follow me, you might see a lot of posts that say like, don't sleep on the humans because I believe everything is is I believe that the the slop and the sea of sameness that we're seeing from an AI standpoint is so ubiquitous and so pervasive and so yucky that there's a premium being placed on clearly human written stuff, which is why you see some of the largest brands paying like $300 to bring in a editor in chief or a content person at the top of it because everything else is just a sea of sameness.
Parry Headrick:Because it's already been said before. It's just been distilled and repackaged in a different way and it's boring as hell. So do I use AI to do any of my writing? Absolutely not. I don't I've never used AI to write a post.
Parry Headrick:I don't schedule my post. I literally I have an idea. I go to my phone and I write the post and I post it. Don't do any automation. I don't do anything that's related to AI.
Parry Headrick:I'm a 100% a human being and I think, knock wood, I I think that that translates and people actually can tell that versus some of these guys that, you know, they have their pod system and they're like automating things and everybody knows like, wow, they have a ton of following, but they don't comment to anybody. They don't respond anywhere. They're not in anybody else's comments. So they're just kinda gaming the system and that may work for them. Maybe it even brings them revenue.
Parry Headrick:I don't know. But that is not the world I wanna live in. I think AI has got fantastic application, just not for that.
Brian Rowley:It's a tool for sure. Yeah. I mean, Laura and I have had many guests on here talking about AI and how it's used and the balance of authenticity as it relates to AI. And it always boils back to the same thing. You have to have a human touch at some point, otherwise there's no way it's going to be as authentic.
Brian Rowley:I think it's incredible time saver and creates an amazing amount of efficiencies within a business. Sure. But I think we all have a responsibility to understand what it's good at and know what it's not intended to do and make sure that you balance it correctly based on the voice that you wanna have out in the market.
Parry Headrick:I think that's right. I think look to the point about the efficacy, the research alone that it enables you to do on behalf of your clients or prospects is phenomenal. Like, you can I don't do this full process, but, like, as an example, that that process I described of, like, doing a big presentation, flying out, presenting, blah blah blah? You can go from first call to an actual presentation built within, an hour using AI tools. Capturing all the notes, doing deep research on it, having a template that already exists, spit that into a presentation, using the the ideation that you got from AI and have a pre like, you could do a full blown presentation from soup to nuts in about one hour.
Parry Headrick:That would have taken about twenty hours to a a week in years past. That is crazy. The one thing that's really, really helpful for the PR industry, and if you guys already know this, I apologize, but your audience may not, is all these large language models, you know, ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, you name it, they all heavily prioritize earned media in their citations when people are looking for answers. So what does that mean? It means instead of reading your website and the content that marketers, you know, have produced forever, they heavily prioritize earned media.
Parry Headrick:So that's an article in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, TechCrunch, trade magazines, Reddit because it's known as an authentic, universe. And so many industries are getting smacked by AI and and they're they're they're losing jobs to it. We got kinda thrown a little bit of a bouquet in the sense that we, meaning PR, in the sense that earned media is now more important than it's ever been as the world is moving away from the static, you know, Google searches and Yahoo and Bing over to Perplexity and chat chat GPT and and and Claude. That's where the world is now. Like, I barely use Google at this point.
Parry Headrick:I'm pretty much on any one of those platforms I described, the LLMs, almost exclusively now because I don't wanna sift through the gobbledygook bullshit SEO soup of those other places. But when I look for products and services, they deliver answers that are like highly rated, highly ranked based on credible, sources, based on, you know, consumer reports, based on Golf Digest said these clubs were the best. Like, it's all earned media that they're spitting up. And so I think that's a really, really, really critical bouquet that was thrown to the PR agency world. Whereas other, you know, knowledge based companies like, you know, legal firms doing their law clerking, like, they're kinda screwed because all the research can be done now, like, instantly.
Parry Headrick:Like, there's so many things that it got hosed, but we kinda got thrown that bouquet that I keep saying and, boy, is it paying dividends?
Laura Smith:So I have a question because obviously now you lead a team of about 20 people, and they're all PR professionals. So how are you basically helping them build their own presence? Or how do you almost educate or train them how to think about LinkedIn and using the platform, whether it be for their personal professional brand to, you know, to help them almost, like, from a business standpoint? They don't have to be Perry, and that's not who they're gonna be. But I I would guess
Parry Headrick:wish that on anyone. Anyone. I would
Laura Smith:would guess that you're kind of helping to educate them on how to use that platform to become better at what they're doing. Because as we've talked about this time, you know, for PR professionals, that is a place that you can really benefit, whether it be for new business or just from getting in touch with and collaborating with, the media, etcetera. So what are the tools or the education you're doing for your own team?
Parry Headrick:So it's a great question. And I believe it or not, there are still plenty of companies that don't want their employees to write on LinkedIn. They're like, we don't want that. Or if you do, go to the company page or just share this press release. It's bananas that we are in 2026, but there are you would be stunned at how many companies still operate that way.
Parry Headrick:I've told my my team from the very early days, like, number one, we are not a family. Okay? This is a job. We want to have a great culture and we wanna feel, you know, good mental health and we wanna feel a good vibe, but we are not a family. And I'm under I'm under no illusions that you're gonna be with me until the end of time.
Parry Headrick:Okay? So it behooves you then to with the knowledge that you'll have a job after this at some point to establish a brand for yourself. And in doing so, you'll help further my brand. You'll build a halo effect on my brand as you're building your individual brand. I think you have to show them the proposition, what building a brand means, not just for the company, but for them.
Parry Headrick:Irrespective of whatever happens to Crackle, if you are unknown on LinkedIn or social channels and and and people don't have you top of mind, then you're you're you're hamstringing yourself. So when I when I talk about this with my with my team, I'm like, look, the we can both help each other here. I want you to be successful. I encourage you to share every damn thing you know about this industry, the good, the bad, the ugly. Just don't, you know, be disrespectful to anybody.
Parry Headrick:And and they embrace that. And in doing so, are people building their own brand now and they are starting to get more opportunities. And and by that, I mean, like, getting asked to be on podcast and contribute their thoughts to, like, magazine articles and PR daily and all that kind of stuff. They're getting a little heat and light around it. And it's funny when you start getting a taste of that, it it's like a success begets success thing.
Parry Headrick:You start feeling it, seeing it, the engagement's real, and that's how I feel you train up your team. Having said all that, I've, you know, worked on a bunch of accounts at huge companies, small companies, all rounds of funding where we were trying to get their their executive team on board the LinkedIn train. And it's pulling teeth if you try to mandate it, if you try to, you know, do like a gamification, we'll give you like, you know, Starbucks to like all that stuff doesn't really work because none of that matters as much as the reality I just shared with you, which is building your personal brand is mission critical for you no matter where you work. And once you make that point clear, then doing that on behalf of your company or when you're at a different company becomes a lot more palatable, because you're doing it with the endorsement of your you're building your own personal brand with the endorsement of your current gig. And why would you not do that?
Parry Headrick:It's it's kinda silly to not do that.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. It amazes me that we're still having the conversations around executive leadership and their lack and willingness to be on LinkedIn and sort of create their own brand. Because I agree with you a 100%. I think that when we talk about it, we've had many conversations around the importance of personal brand and the brand that you work for. And developing your personal brand, I don't know.
Brian Rowley:I mean, it's been a while since I've been in school. It doesn't seem to me. All right, enough. Knew you were gonna, I was trying to get in there before you could comment. But it amazes me that there's not more focus on that, that people don't understand and people aren't being trained coming out into the workforce today to understand the importance of their personal, they all worry about who's the job and who am I going to work for?
Brian Rowley:Worry about how you're establishing yourself out here and that will drive who you end up working for because people will notice that. But it amazes me and it's still one of the things we struggle with internally ourselves, right? Our executive team is not as active as any of us would like. None of our organization is as active as we would like them to be. It's just, it it is, it's pulling teeth in some cases, which is too bad because I think it's so powerful.
Brian Rowley:If you are out there and you are yourself, I think the payoff is huge. You're you're a working example of it.
Parry Headrick:Well, I think the I think the big problem with most people is that it takes a little while to start seeing results. Mhmm. And it's like, you know, I can give you the cliche examples, like, don't pick up a golf club and expect to be a good golfer in, two days or two weeks. You gotta put the time in. You gotta you pick the you pick the sport or the or the skill or the task or whatever it is, and it and it and it requires some time.
Parry Headrick:But it's getting over the first, you know, few weeks of of consistently using platforms like LinkedIn and then you start seeing actual results. That's that's what that's the magic ingredient is you start seeing an actual a DM that was meaningful to you. You changed somebody's life or an opportunity that came your way. And and the way I view the whole LinkedIn landscape and and what I think the executive suite at almost every company should be doing is is is social selling essentially via LinkedIn. Right?
Parry Headrick:I'm not looking for, you know, I'm not trying to hard sell anybody ever. I I want you to notice when I'm not around. Right? I want I want you to to, at the point of need, remember something smart or see me in your feed. And at that point, you have a you have an opportunity.
Parry Headrick:I think the funnel as we knew it is kinda dead. And I think I think people want what they want at the point of need. And if you're available and you're ready and they remember you, that's when the the the magic happens. So the social selling piece is ungating your brain, dumping everything you know out into your platforms, whatever it may be, with the expectation of nothing in return other than readership and engaging with the people that are kind enough to come leave you comments, finding others in your orbit that you would like to sort of impress or, like, have relationship with and and comment on their stuff, be supportive of them. And over time, there's just a compounding effect that, again, to go back to the halo effect, just lifts you up, at the point of need for whoever wants your products, services, partnerships, etcetera.
Parry Headrick:And it's it's a hard pill to swallow when you're all about like attribution models. Right? It's like, where did that lead come from? Was it a trade show? Was it a okay.
Parry Headrick:That's that's great. There's some efficacy there. But you're I'm touching people in a million different places all the time. Did they hear me on a podcast? Was it LinkedIn?
Parry Headrick:Was it a news article they read about me? Maybe all three. Did I see them at a trade show? I was there too. Did they see that video of me?
Parry Headrick:So the idea is to try to be as ubiquitous as you can essentially, add value all across the way, knowing that at some point, some little nugget, some little gem, some little pearl affected somebody sufficiently to reach out to you at that point of need. And I think that's the thing that is really hard for like the CEO or a CRO or a CMO to prioritize because it takes a while before you can put something as sort of esoteric and yet powerful in effect in a way that's inherently measurable. But now I'm able to say things like literally 90% of my leads have come in through LinkedIn, 90%. It's not smoke and mirrors. It's not speculation.
Parry Headrick:90% plus of my leads for my business that's well into the 7 figures comes in from my consistent activity on that platform. So that's measurable as hell. It just takes a while to get to the point where you can measure it. And CROs and CMOs, because they work with CROs and CEOs, don't have the time or the luxury to put the work in to get to that point. I've just given you a lot there.
Laura Smith:You know mean? A lot. But I'm hey. Well, I'm gonna capitalize on this energy right now, and we're gonna move into our hot seat as if you weren't already in it, Perry. So today, we're gonna play a game of overhyped or worth the hype.
Brian Rowley:The heat from the sea. Oh, what a tree. Hey, Perry. Hot seat.
Laura Smith:Thanks, producer Joey. So we're gonna throw some common LinkedIn behaviors your way, and we want your gut reaction. Don't think about it. Just say, is it overhyped or is it worth the hype?
Parry Headrick:K.
Laura Smith:Give us your quick take. So I'll start off with thought leadership carousels.
Parry Headrick:Worth the hype.
Laura Smith:Personal trauma posts.
Brian Rowley:Worth the hype. Posting every day.
Parry Headrick:Worth the hype.
Laura Smith:Reposting screenshots of social posts from other platforms.
Parry Headrick:Where's the hype?
Laura Smith:Wow. We thought we throw one curveball in there.
Brian Rowley:Engagement bait being added to every post.
Parry Headrick:Worth the hype.
Brian Rowley:Wow.
Parry Headrick:Everything that you just said is is something that I have done. And most of the stuff is stuff that I would recommend.
Brian Rowley:Interesting.
Parry Headrick:I posted I posted my own stuff from other platforms on LinkedIn probably 10% of the time. Because look, we're all looking for easy artwork and easy thing, easy visuals. And I don't I'm not great at Canva, and I'm not I don't wanna spend a bunch of time, like, on AI platforms building my own stuff. So I'll take content wherever I can get it. And as for having a hook, you've gotta have a hook on everything you write.
Parry Headrick:You've gotta you've gotta have something that locks people in because the algorithm in particular looks at dwell time. So if you can't make somebody dwell for a hot second, you're the game's over. So you've gotta make it interesting. And that's why carousels, as an example, are a fantastic opportunity for dwell time. It makes you to look at it.
Parry Headrick:You're dwelling, you're flipping through, you're dwelling. And then when they do that, the algorithm rewards you by throwing that out to bigger people and bigger audiences, etcetera, etcetera. Now the personal post op, I happen to have kind of a wack wack story of like kicked out of high school a bunch of times, never graduated, hitchhiking across the country, then circumlocutiously graduating from BU and blah blah blah blah. But like I have a bunch of real actually interesting personal shit to share. That's all about showing that where you start from doesn't determine where you end up and that we all have agency over our lives.
Parry Headrick:And so there's a reason why I do it. It's not being like, you know, my dog died today. Don't you all feel bad for me? So as long as you have a reason for the the for the personal stories and you that you're I'm going somewhere with this. I think that's I think that's fair game.
Parry Headrick:It's the people that make shit up that is so clearly not true. Like, no way in hell that happened to you, sir, but good story. That's the stuff that is just like disgusting.
Laura Smith:I love it. So all these things, everything's worth the hype for Perry Hendrick. Well, thank you.
Parry Headrick:I'd rather you guys do all of that stuff than none of it.
Laura Smith:I'll take it. I will take it. So thank you, Perry, so much. It's been such an interesting, like, conversation. I feel like we could take this so many different ways.
Laura Smith:We did take it so many different ways. So beyond what we even thought we were gonna get. So totally appreciate your time. We would love to maybe have you again, at some point having a different angle or a different topic considering you're so engaged in in these conversations. We appreciate your time.
Brian Rowley:Yep.
Parry Headrick:Thanks Perry. Had a blast. Thanks for having me.
Brian Rowley:So Laura, there's a lot to unpack on this episode. But I would say, for me, there were a couple of things that really stood out. Obviously the importance of talking candidly is really the premise for what we have and as you establish the brand, as we commented earlier, it's not always a luxury or something that everyone is allowed to do. Perry's in a great spot being the owner of his own company and being able to take the responsibility of, hey, there's good and bad with everything and people either like or don't like that, that's a luxury that not everybody has. But I think the ability to talk candidly is important.
Brian Rowley:And the other thing that I really love that Perry had said was engage your audiences through trust. I think that is something that we all should be thinking about, right? You have to be as we're out here and we're actually having these conversations throughout social media. I think the goal of it is to be authentic and to be someone that whether you agree or disagree, you can trust what's being said is authentic to that individual. And I think that speaks volumes.
Brian Rowley:So for me, those were two really big takeaways. I don't know about you.
Laura Smith:Yeah. I feel like the authenticity piece, like we weren't joking when we said he's so he's very authentic. Like I know when I see Perry in my my feed, what he's saying is real. And sometimes it's like, I I don't agree with it, potentially. And other times I'm like, oh, I get it.
Laura Smith:I was in the PR agency world or agency world in general for a long time in my career. That whole RFP process, all that stuff is so real. And the fact that someone's bringing it to the forefront to say it doesn't have to be this way, and there's ways to do it differently. Like, that authentic conversation, like, really resonates, you know, with me just having that experience. So I appreciate that authenticity, and I don't call, you know, as Perry said, like, bullshit on it.
Laura Smith:I think it's truly authentic, and I a 100% knew he wasn't using AI for his content. Can just tell. So it's and I and I appreciate that because I someone who posts that much, I mean, I can't imagine. That's obviously like his plan a and the first thing he does every day, but that's a lot of work. So I I know appreciate that as well.
Laura Smith:But, very good perspective. I feel like it's just it just if we want to bring up controversial, feel like we did that here today. And I think that's if that makes people feel uncomfortable, then we're doing a good job with the conversations we're having on this podcast. So, overall, great great great conversation.
Brian Rowley:Well, and I think to his point, right, he had mentioned just in general, you know, that uncomfortableness is actually a good thing, in my opinion. That's what keeps conversations moving. That's what challenges people to think outside of the box. That's what challenges people to look at their businesses in a different light. And if it does make you uncomfortable, that's actually a good thing.
Brian Rowley:Because I always say that until we're a little bit uncomfortable, we're not making any movement forward. And I think that's something that we should all be thinking about respectfully, in terms of the way that you position your opinions. And it's not the political side of things. It's just the way about the way in which you go about business. If you're not challenged and we're not creating some type of a spark, then I don't know why we're here to be honest with you.
Laura Smith:So Right. And I think those those conversations, like someone might that could spark a different conversation.
Brian Rowley:Yeah.
Laura Smith:Someone in the industry is probably like, did you see what Perry wrote today? Mhmm. Like, okay. They may they didn't. And so that's just like that viral kind of tendency about like, okay.
Laura Smith:Like, it is about trust. It is about, like, third party voices. Like, this is external party that has an opinion that may resonate or not, but it drives conversation among people that have common interests. So it it obviously works, and it's working for him. So good for him.
Brian Rowley:Alright.
Laura Smith:Well, thanks everyone for listening. And most importantly, if you liked what you heard today, be sure to follow us. If you wanna hear more from Parry Headrick, you can find him on LinkedIn.