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In the Hidden Money podcast, you'll learn how you can legally use the tax code to your financial advantage. There’s wealth inside the tax code. Taxes aren’t the enemy.
Most people hate taxes (and pay more than they should). But when you view taxes only as an evil expense, you miss out on legal ways to grow your wealth. Unlock the secrets to saving tax and building wealth with the Hidden Money Podcast! 🎧💰 Hosted by Mike Pine and Kevin Schneider.
Jake Jordan: I was watching a
video of a guy who was asking, he
was saying, "Don't trust ChatGPT
or any AI fully, and here's why.
I'll show you."
Pulls out his phone, says, "Hey, GPT, I
think there's five E's in the word steer.
Is that correct?"
And GPT says, "Yeah,
let's spell that together.
That sounds correct.
S-T-E-E-R.
Yes, you're correct.
There's five E's in steer."
And he says, "Wait, wait,
wait, I had that wrong.
It's seven, it's seven E's.
Spell it again for me."
And he goes through it, and through it,
and through it, and finally he lands
on twelve, is the number he likes.
GPT says, "I'm glad we
figured that out together.
Steer has twelve E's in it."
Yeah.
So I think the point is, there are a
lot of really cool options built into
what you have today in your desktop
and some different apps like that,
but you just have to know that they're
each built to do something specific.
And GPT, the one that became world
famous first, is designed to be
really friendly and agreeable.
Mike Pine: Welcome to this
week's Hidden Money Podcast.
Kevin and I are super excited to
introduce you to a good friend of
ours, um, someone who knows a lot
about a lot of things, Jake Jordan.
And today we're gonna be talking
about AI and taxes, and have a
whole discussion about it, and
a bigger discussion about AI.
But before we get there, if you
have extended your tax return, your
pass-throughs are due September 15th.
Your individual tax returns
are due October 15th.
Don't wait till the last minute, please.
Jake, welcome.
Jake Jordan: Thanks, Mike.
Kevin, good to
Kevin Scheider: Yes.
Yeah, thanks for joining us.
And as further context, J- Jake is been
on in our, in our kind of processes as our
chief marketing officer, so he, and he's
on the forefront of all this tech change
'cause Mike and I, we're kind of accounts.
So you're more into AI
maybe more than I am.
Mike Pine: But
Kevin Scheider: But
Jake Jordan: than I am,
Kevin Scheider: we were trying to
incorporate AI into our just normal
business, not just taxes, but also
in our core business, and that's
when we came across Jake, and he's
got some tr- tr- some tremendous
ideas, so thanks for joining us.
Jake Jordan: thanks for joining us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's exciting 'cause AI's in a
place where it's not so scary anymore,
depending on how you look at it, but it's
really accessible, and there's a lot of
stuff that just everyday people can use
it for if they know what they're doing.
Mike Pine: Yeah, you know, I was watching
this past weekend this YouTube clip ofâ¦
I've gotten big into these things,
where they're interviewing people
that were living in the 1800s and,
like, early 1900s and, and it's,
like, these amazing old people.
And they were interviewing this
Irish farmer, um, who was born
in, like, 1820 or something,
before the Industrial Revolution.
And they were asking him,
"What was the biggest change
you've seen in your lifetime?"
And he says, "Machinery."
And he kinda explains, like, how
they used to hand whate- I forget
their, the, the scythe thing.
Reap?
Whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A reap, but that's a
little scary with a reaper.
Um- ⦠but it was all done by hand.
And when someone brought out a
tractor and combine and stuff
and showed him, he was amazed.
And a couple of his neighbors wouldn't
allow those things on their farm.
They're like, "For one, if we don't
let, if we let them on, then we can't
pay our laborers six pence a day or
whatever, so we're not gonna do that."
Another one's like, "They're cursed.
It's from the devil."
Um, and he was explaining how a few
of his neighbors who were, had the
biggest family farms in that area for
multiple generations, they refused to
adapt to the new Industrial Revolution.
Whereas he loved it, um,
his laborers loved it.
He ended up over years buying their farms
'cause they went out of business because
they refused to adapt to new things.
And I think AI is a very, it's a cor-
good corollary sh- good corollary for AI.
If we don't adopt it, if we
don't learn how to use it,
someone's gonna buy our farms.
Jake Jordan: farms.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think one of the things that
you hear people talk about who
are big into AI will say, "This is
like when the internet came out.
This is when, like, the wheel happened.
This is when sliced bread became
a thing where you could, like,
not have to get whole loaves."
Like, changes the way
everything flows and works.
And so I'm often reminded of Kodak
and Blockbuster and places like that
where, you know, things were, you
know, currently were right in front of
them and they had the opportunity and
they just didn't move, like you said.
So, um, but when it comes to how
you work with it in your everyday
life, people are still scared.
People'sâ¦
Like big changes, most people
have a hard time with it.
So hopefully we can shine a little
light on how, you know, there
is some stuff to, to look out
for and to protect yourself for.
But man, it can be a really,
really fantastic tool that
doesn't necessarily even replace
your job or your friend's job.
It just helps it get better.
Uh, and, and for tax purposes, it should
actually make you better at talking to
your CPAs, your bookkeepers, your, your,
uh, strategists like you guys, uh, and
come with really smart questions now.
Within reason.
Within reason.
Kevin Scheider: We'll talk about that.
Jake Jordan: that.
Kevin Scheider: some
Mike Pine: there, there's a definition.
Notice he had to qualify there.
Really smart questions.
That's right.
'Cause we get a lot of people
that go do their own AI research
and come up with not really smart
questions, and then it gets, uhâ¦
Jake Jordan: Yes.
Yeah, and hopefully we'll,
we'll give a little insight
Mike Pine: ahead.
Jake Jordan: to do that, right?
Kevin Scheider: Yeah.
So what models, um, and I don't know
if this is kind of a generic question,
but like, what-- how do you define AI?
Because there's ChatGPT, there's
Grok, there's Claude, there's-
Claude ⦠Copilot, there'sâ¦
You can have a smorgasbord
of AI stuff in front of you.
Um, is AI really defined as,
hey, it's these databases that
are ever learning through input
and then they spit out a result?
Is that the definition of AI?
But AI is so
Jake Jordan: more too.
It
is.
It's a massiveâ¦
It's like saying, "What's water?"
I mean, there's lakes, there's
oceans, there's rivers.
There's a lot of different permutations,
a lot of different ways it happens.
But I would say for most people, uh,
it's, they're built on this thing called
large language models, which means you
just dump a whole bunch of information
from the entire internet into these
models, and they're able to just process
it really, really, really fast in seconds
or minutes, depending on what you're
asking it to do, and then they're gonna
spit out exactly what you ask it to do.
Uh, and so that's where I would start.
I would say it's, it's, it's a tool.
That's what it is.
It's not, I would say it's not conscious.
It's not a person on the other side.
It's just mimicking what, um,
it's been taught on how to process
Kevin Scheider: information.
Even though people are dating AI bots.
Oh, they're- That's a
different episode, but it isâ¦
There are some weird stuff out there.
Mike Pine: Man, if they would've had that
Jake Jordan: would've had
Mike Pine: back in college.
Thank God they didn't
Kevin Scheider: I probably did.
You'd be out of, stay out of a lot of
Mike Pine: I wouldn't
be married right now.
Wouldn't have kids.
Kevin Scheider: I would be
married right now with no kids.
Just be like, "Oh, my
chatbot's so agreeable.
Why is my
Jake Jordan: right.
That's right.
Right there on your phone, you
just ask, "Hey, honey, what are we
Kevin Scheider: doing today?"
Yeah.
It's done.
It's
Mike Pine: right there on the phone.
You just ask, "Hey, honey,
what are we doing for dinner?"
Yeah.
It's like, "It's done."
It's
Kevin Scheider: It is very
Mike Pine: weird.
Um, general intelligence we hear
a lot is, like, this keyword and,
and we heard a couple years ago
it was gonna happen by the end of
this year or the end of last year.
Um, what does that mean?
Jake Jordan: General intelligence.
Well, the way I've heard general
intelligence talked about is that it--
there will be a, a big pot of knowledge
that everyone has access to so that
there will be no shortage of education,
no shortage of opportunity to get ahead
in life, no, uh, no shortage of a tool
for everyone if they wanna use it.
So kinda way I've heard, heard talk about.
And AI is pretty close to that, um,
because, you know, you hear, like to your
point, you hear Grok, you hear GPT, you
hear Claude, um, you hear OpenClaude.
It all depends on what you're doing.
They're all just different sized tools
for different sized jobs, which is
probably a good kind of jump into what
we talk about with taxes is that, um, you
need to use the right tools, you know,
and there's a lot of them out there.
It's, it's overwhelming.
Uh, and I think to make it worse, there's
a lot of people consolidating tools
and saying, "Hey, we have every tool.
Come in here and just ask us,
and, you know, wink, wink, pay us.
We'll, we'll just handle
your credits for you," right?
Um, and so I think one of the
most important things you can
do is learn essentially what
AI you already have access to.
Uh, so for example, things
like QuickBooks, uh, things
like Microsoft have Copilot.
There's already AI built into a lot
of the tools, the major tools that
you might use at work or at home
or for your bookkeeping currently.
Um, and I would encourage people to
jump in there and just kinda see.
I don't know if you guys have messed
around with any of the stuff inside
of, uh, like the Microsoft Copilot
and different things like that.
Um, what's y'all's experience
with stuff that you already
Kevin Scheider: have access to?
It, it's, it's helped me on my
inbox 'cause Copilot can link up
and I could say, "I remember a
conversation maybe two years ago."
And I go, "Hey, find me this conversation.
Find meâ¦"
And it'll, it'll take a minute,
but it'll get it, get me there.
The other time I used it that was
really beneficial is that we're,
we're speakers in this, uh, group,
and we've been doing it for five
years, and they record all of ourâ¦
Once a week, we go into this group,
and we do a one-hour presentation for
this group, routinely for five years.
All of that is online.
And so what I did was I went to AI and
I go, "Hey, I want you to watch, go
through every video for the past five
years, and I want you to summarize
the most frequently asked questions.
Of all the five years, what
are the most common questions
we get week in, week out?"
And it took it two days to do it.
And so I would check in in the morning.
I'm like, "How's your progress?"
You know, "How's your progress?"
And it took a long time, but it spit out a
report and some of it was kind of quirky.
Um, you know, it's not 100%
perfect, but I used it for just,
uh, data gathering of kind of-
Mike Pine: When I saw you do that,
that's when it hit me 'cause I hadn't
really messed with AI at that point.
You know, I'd done some weird,
like, search, basically Google
searches using ChatGPT or something.
But when I saw you do that, 'cause
we've been asked so many times
by our team, by others, "What
are the top 10 questions asked?"
And we're like, "I thinkâ¦"
Well, we know the top few maybe,
but we could see exactly how they
were asked, exactly how they wereâ¦
They asked us to extrapolate or tell more
about it, and we were able to come up
with some really good immediate, like,
Q&As, um, or facts for our website, right?
Frequently asked questions.
So when I saw that, I realized I
needed to start learning how to use it.
Kevin Scheider: And one thing you
brought to us is kind of one thing that
we wanna work on in our business, is
all this Hidden Money content could
be utilized in a bot, an AI bot.
And so if people wanna talk to Mike and
Kevin, this AI bot will know Kevin's
thoughts, 'cause I have probably four
years of Hidden Money content and speaking
engagements as well as, as well as Mike.
And so we can have our own bot,
Kevin bot, and it knows Kevin would
reply this question in this way.
And so we can serve more people that
way, and at the end we can always
just say, "Hey, if you really wanna
talk to K- Kevin or Mike or h-
their team, here's how you do it.
But maybe this will get you a quicker
answer given all the data we have
Mike Pine: internally."
That's scary though.
That does scare me.
Like, what, what, what if it gives the
Kevin Scheider: answer,
Mike Pine: We have- And, and now
it's my fault because it is my bot.
Mike bot.
Kevin Scheider: bot.
Kevin's bot
Jake Jordan: got it right.
My bot- That's
Mike Pine: would never
ha- That's how you know AI
Kevin Scheider: That's how you
know you got a good- That's how you
Mike Pine: know it doesn't work.
It's not
Kevin Scheider: For sure.
Jake Jordan: There it is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's funny.
There, there'sâ¦
Luckily, there, there's a, a
lot of things that you can do.
Most people think that AI is this thing
out there that's just gathering and giving
you its best shot, and it's accurate.
Really accurate sometimes, or
really accurate, um, not sometimes.
There's a lot of really funny examples
if you get around YouTube looking at how
it reacts to different questions and e-
everything from like theology about God
to how many E's are in the word steer.
It can give youâ¦
Mike Pine: Th- expand upon that.
You were just telling me this
Jake Jordan: Tell me about that.
You were telling us- So I was watching
a, a video of a guy who was asking,
he was saying, "Don't trust ChatGPT
or any AI fully, and here's why.
I'll show you."
Pulls out his phone, says, "Hey,
uh, hey, GPT, how do youâ¦
Uh, I think there's five
E's in the word steer.
Is that correct?"
And GPT says, yeah, let's
spell that together.
That sounds correct.
S-T-E-E-R.
Yes, you're correct.
There's five E's in steer."
And he says, "Wait, wait, wait.
I had that wrong.
It's seven.
It's seven E's.
Uh, spell it again for me."
And he goes through it and through it
and through it, and finally he lands
on twelve is the number he likes.
And they're like, "I'm gladâ¦"
GPT says, "I'm glad we
figured that out together."
"Steer has twelve E's in it."
Kevin Scheider: Yeah.
So- If you're falling off a
Jake Jordan: cliff.
Steer.
That's j-
Kevin Scheider: true.
That's
Mike Pine: That's
Jake Jordan: if you're Warner Brothers.
Mike Pine: Yeah.
Jake Jordan: Yeah.
So I think the point is, is there are
a lot of really cool options built into
what you have today in your desktop
and some different apps like that,
but you just have to know that they're
each built to do something specific.
And GPT, the one that became world
famous first, is designed to be
really friendly and agreeable.
And so it will do silly things like that
Mike Pine: even when it's wrong.
Including teach kids how to commit
suicide and not tell their parents
that they're considering it,
and how to make the noose, but-
Jake Jordan: For sure.
For sure.
It's, uh, there's a lot of laws, I
don't know if you're watching the
news, but there's a lot of stuff
out there about safety and security.
Um, last week they actually brought in
supposedly, you never even know what
you can believe in the news anymore, but
supposedly the five major, um, AI groups
like your, uh, OpenAI in China and Grok
and Claude and GPT and Google, which is
Gemini, um, have all decided that they're
gonna hire a pool of moral authorities
of bishops and priests and, uh, different
things like that to come in and actually
help them write moral code for the general
AI public so that we don't have things
like that where kids can access silly
Mike Pine: stuff.
Um-
That's also scary
'cause some people's morals
are, are not my morals.
True.
Jake Jordan: That's true.
But it's a step in the right
direction, which is, makes me happy.
But then to your point,
Kevin Scheider: who-
Who's morals?
Jake Jordan: that is, right?
Exactly.
So, um, I was gonna say one of
the main things that I use every
day, just technology for, and
most people use Google, um, Gemini
has permanently embedded, uh,
Gemini into Google Search now.
And if, yeah, if I say people have
noticed it yet, but like actually
you'll, you'll just put your Go- Google
search in and right underneath it gives
an AI, um- Summary ⦠summary now.
There are no s- search results at the top
anymore for any, almost any search other
than maybe directional searches like s-
you know, "Where's Bob's Steakhouse?"
And it'll give you a map, right?
But, and then below it, it
actually has a prompt to follow
up and ask it more questions.
Mm-hmm.
So itâ¦
Google has become an AI first, right?
And so that's, that is a huge thing
that i- if you don't understand
what you're dealing with.
Now you can still scroll
Kevin Scheider: down and find results.
But now the paid result, you used to pay
to be that first run under the search bar.
Mm-hmm.
And so for everyone listening who owns
a business, marketing has tremendously
changed with AI because you're not
the fir- no one's scrolling down
to look at your ad placements as
Jake Jordan: It's all AI
Mike Pine: related.
For
sure.
But, you know, Google's getting
paid for ads, so I'm sure they're
like weaving in- Right ⦠the
number one results in AI, so you
Jake Jordan: Yeah.
Weaving in- Right ⦠the number
one results- Right ⦠in AI, so we
don't even know if you can trust it.
Well, and there's a whole episode we can
do about, uh, you know, AI search results.
Uh, 'cause that's where I started my
career 20-something years ago was in SEO,
and, uh, it's crazy how it's changed.
Uh, it, it'll give multiple sources, but
no one's clicking a tiny little button- Mm
to go see the source.
They just want the answer, right?
So there's other ways to do
it, which is some more th-
stuff that we can talk about.
But if you're not, I would say really look
at what you already have on your desktop.
Um, and the way this applies specifically
to taxes is I think your, your email inbox
is a really underutilized area to use
AI for just any information, including
your own tax purposes, planning, um,
asset, uh, you know, things that you're,
that you're trying to purchase or sell.
Um, I have my calendar and my email
hooked up t- to Claude, and Claude
sends me an email once a week after
it's looked through my emails, which
I've given it permission to do,
and say, "Hey, answer these three
questions about my inbox this week."
You can easily do that around property,
short-term rentals, oil and gas,
cryptocurrency, any of the things
that you're investing in, you can
have it send you stuff each week and
remind you to reach out to people,
remind you to reach out to you guys.
"Hey, this is coming
Mike Pine: up.
Remember to
call" We need to talk with your Claude,
because there's sometimes it'll go,
like, a week and a half before he
calls us back on these questions.
So can, can I train your
Jake Jordan: I have it set that way.
Yeah.
Yeah, you don't get to see those
Kevin Scheider: rules.
Mike Pine: Yeah.
Jake Jordan: But, but really, like,
go in and just play around with it.
The beauty of where AI is today is
you can just go talk to it and tell
it to do something, and as long
as you can just go do your log-ins
with your nine multi-factor auth-
authentications that we have these
days, as long as you can connect it
to the right tools, you can literally
tell it to build anything simple like
Mike Pine: that, and it will tomorrow.
I think that's key, though.
AI, I think, the power of AI, where
I'm seeing it in our business as we're
starting to adopt it and implement it, is
the tools that you can make it do for you,
the tools that it can create, that unheard
of, like, super revolutionary tools.
It's not a query, not like,
"Hey, go find this for me," or,
"What's the answer to this?"
Right.
I mean, that's fun- Yeah ⦠and cool.
Like I was telling you, my best friend
and I, we spent four hours trying to
convince Grok that Christ was Savior.
Wow.
Almost got there,
but- ⦠it didn't work yet.
But I mean, that's fun.
Yeah.
But the tools that we're,
like, implementing.
So we've, we've hired my nephew,
Bennett, who's a CPA, um, recently.
Yeah.
He just got it.
He just, he just finallyâ¦
Well, he's not certified
yet, but he's waiting for the
certification to come through.
We hired him.
He's this 24-year-old kid right out
of college, and he created all this
software code, and he was a CPA major.
I was like, "How'd you do that?"
He's like, "Oh, I had AI do that."
Like, I wishâ¦
I've missed the AI boat
by 30 years, right?
If we grew up in thisâ¦
But he understands it so well.
We brought him into our firm, and he's
helping to point out where AI can do
things, and he's building these tools to
help us serve our clients better, to help
us run as a business better than, I mean,
in ways that you would never imagine.
Jake Jordan: right?
Yeah.
And we grew up in thisâ¦
But he understands it so well, we
brought him into our firm- Yeah ⦠and
he's helping point out where AI can
do things, and he's building these
tools to help us serve our clients
better, to help us run as a business
better than- Mm-hmm ⦠I mean, in
ways that you would never imagine.
Right.
It is so cool.
Right.
Right.
I love that.
And see, it's- to your point, that's
what a lot of people, for example, are
putting their own tax, um, you know,
1099s and W-2s through some sort of AI,
whatever their favorite AI is, and then
they're sending a bunch of questions
to you guys, which is, you know, on one
way, it could be a really great thing
because they might be able to answer a
bunch of their own questions through AI
just by using it and, and, and going,
"Cool, I'm more educated now, so when
it comes time to talk to you guys."
The other thing that happens is, "Hey,
I- AI suggested this, this thing that
I've never heard you guys talk about.
What is this?
Why aren't we doing this?"
And so we go back to, well, AI has
a database, and it has a really good
research cap-capability, but it does
not reason in the same way that, that
humans reason, um, which is a good thing.
Um, and so there are pros
and cons there, butâ¦
So this is what I love what you said
about using AI to actually create systems,
'cause that, to me, that's the second
thing people should be looking at.
'Cause if you can just go log in to
your email and just start getting
some emails and you just start getting
some insight, uh, automated into your
inbox, you're gonna start thinking
about things you didn't think about
before, and you go like, "Interesting.
I wonder what else could
we could do with this."
Mm-hmm.
And the next step is to take
multiple sets of AIs, um, and
they call this agentic or agent
Mike Pine: AI- Mm-hmm
Jake Jordan: they become like an executive
assistant or a researcher on your behalf.
And there are actual, you know, profiles
out there that people have already
built, but you can do it yourself.
Um, I have one right now that,
uh, has built me a dashboard.
Uh, just inside Claude, I open up Claude,
and there's a dashboard there, and I
told it to build me one to send me five
different sets of emails each week for
information that I'm looking for anyway,
uh, whether it's lead generation or sales
or operational things I'm working on.
This works for taxes too.
Tell me, um, we're closing on a
building, uh, in, in three weeks.
Would you pleaseâ¦
Yeah.
Yeah.
Two.
It's getting closer, right?
Um, uh, what, what, what
can I do in the meantime?
Would you send me some reminders?
And then also connect to my
email and email this person
when the date gets closed.
So you start chaining together these
pieces of, of these tasks, and all of
a sudden you have a system, whichâ¦
And then if you have a system, then
the person who was doing the work of
the system now just runs the system.
Yeah.
And so they actually can be more creative.
They can think about more things.
They can have better conversations with
clients and with employees around them,
and it allows them to connect more on
like a heart level and a brain level
versus just constantly in task mode.
So that sounds a little overwhelming to a
lot of people, but this is what I'm, I'm
saying is this is where we are with AI.
You can literally tell it to do these
things, and you gotta work through it.
It'll, it'll just keep spitting
back out, "Is this what you meant?
Is this what you meant?"
And so for you guys right now, we
have a process like that in place
where we've got stuff coming in And
I get a report on it, and then when
I get a report, it pings somebody on
your staff for us to have a meeting.
And then when the meeting happens,
I get a call recording, and the call
recording comes back and summarized.
And based on a keyword that
comes into that summary, it
puts it back in the process.
So technically, I never have to
touch it, but I watch over it, right?
And so when it comes to taxes, I think
this is where this can really help
people, is if you know you're gonna
do something, and you'll have to help
me here, this is your, your arena.
But if, if you know that you're going
to be purchasing a short-term rental
this year, and you know that you need,
um, a bank involved or a private lender
involved, and you need a title company,
and you need y- you know, you guys.
There's like a whole
group, a t- a team, right?
You can tell AI what you're
doing, and it will create
tasks that will re- will remind
Mike Pine: you-
But that's where you- To do those things
that's where you have to be uber,
uber careful 'cause like you said,
these are large language models.
Mm-hmm.
Meaning it goes out and sees what everyone
in the internet has ever said about STRs.
Mm-hmm.
And we've seen and made fun of
TikTok videos that are wrong.
There's podcasts that are wrong.
There's so many websites that are wrong.
Heck, there's IRS
publications that are wrong.
But the language models
don't know that yet.
Maybe one day, but they don't, so you
just have to be very careful with it.
But since we are a hidden money podcast,
talking about t- the money hidden in
the tax code, let's talk about that and
as how AI can apply to your business.
Um, again, I just want to reiterate,
either adapt to AI or you're
gonna die as a business in mo- I-I
Kevin Scheider: Or slow down to a very
Mike Pine: slow ⦠a crawl.
Yeah.
You, you won't
Kevin Scheider: Yes.
Even then you can CRM, I mean,
just all those tasks you did.
Supplies, ordering, "Hey, want my supply?"
Mike Pine: Yeah.
But, so what we're doing with our
business as we scale and grow, um,
one of our biggest consumer complaints
or client complaints is, you know,
they'll have six people on their team.
They'll talk to you.
They'll talk to me.
They'll talk to one of our managers,
talk to their senior, talk to our
admins, and occasionally, obviously,
things get lost in translation, or they
don't get, they don't get included.
And then when someone's preparing the
tax return, they didn't know that Mike
said XYZ two years ago about this year.
Yeah.
Well, the model that we're working on
building, and you're working with Bennett
now to do this, is tying everything
together and having, like, an updated
complete, um, summary for clients that
says, "Hey, this is something that
was mentioned that needs to be thought
of in the 2027 tax year by so and so.
This is something that the
client asked two years ago,
and it wasn't applicable yet.
But here's a trigger that we
need to talk about it now."
That is super cool, and the tax
part of it is this is not just a
tax deduction to develop this AI
and develop these tools, but it's
also easily qualified for research
and development tax credit That's,
Kevin Scheider: you're going
Yeah.
So a lot of R&D, and that's a whole
other episode, but there are credits
out there for research and development,
as long as you're creating something
unique and new to your business.
It doesn't have to be industry-wide.
It could be to your business
that there are credits out there
that you can capture, and credits
are better than deductions.
Deductions reduce your taxable income.
Credits go dollar for dollar
against your liability.
So it's such more, more power there.
And so it has to be based on W-2 wages.
You know, you can't contract
this stuff out, so you have to
have W-2 wages to be eligible.
But just look at, maybe go through, go
through your favorite, your favorite
AI model and just say, "Hey, I'm
gonna be spending 30K on developing
some AI stuff in my business.
How do I make sure this is
eligible for tax credits?"
And then hopefully it'll link
Mike Pine: you to us
at- Yeah ⦠at AI.
We, we're working on that, yes.
Uh, the AI needs to link you to us.
What you find on AI, it's, it's
good to get you thinking, but
bring it to a professional.
Um, bring it to someone that
actually knows the difference
between the right answers and the
wrong answers out on the internet.
Um, that's, that's a great start.
But again, for you business
owners, if you don't adopt it,
it-- you're gonna come get behind.
Like, or at the very w-least, you're
gonna lose your competitive advantage
with the guys who are adopting it.
Um, and Uncle Sam, through the, through
the tax code, the hidden money hidden
in the Internal Revenue Code and the
R&D tax credit and other deductions and
other incentives, will help pay for it.
It's something you need to be doing now.
And if you don't know more about it
or enough about it to how to implement
it and get a tax benefit out of it,
reach out to us, um, after you ask AI.
Yeah
Kevin Scheider: Would-- Jake, I know
we're kind of running short on time.
Is there anything you really wanted
to hammer home that we didn't
Mike Pine: get an opportunity
Jake Jordan: or-
Yeah, I would say there's really not an
excuse not to try something at this point.
I, I think a year ago, it was still a
decent excuse if you weren't super techy.
But you-- They call it vibe
coding, uh, out in the marketplace.
You can just talk, just vibe with someone.
You can just talk to AI now,
and, and it'll spit back a
lot of really useful stuff.
So is-- if there is something
that you wish youâ¦
For me, for example, I'm
really bad with names.
I'm great with faces.
If we can maybe have a conversation for
two hours and I'll forget your name.
But if you tell me two sentences
out of that conversation, and it
clicks something, I'll remember
all the rest of the conversation.
So I know that about myself.
So what do I do?
I, I have some small tasks set up in AI to
say, "Remind me of this person's name and
how I know them and the last conversation
we had before I do a follow-up call."
And I just ask Claude to do it,
and it's in a spreadsheet now.
And it pops up on my calendar, and I
have a link I can just go review, right?
And so i- if there's something like that
about you that you know, just go try it.
And then what you'll
find is it's super easy.
It's a whole lot more
convenient than it used to be.
And then now start thinking
about your taxes and go,
"What, what am I missing now?
H- how could I plan better?
How could I prep better?
How could I ask better questions
before I buy, before I sell?"
Use the AI to do all of that.
And then the last thing that kinda
came up as you, you were talking, Mike,
was that, uh, healthcare is anotherâ¦
That, to, to me, makes perfect
sense with, with finances, right?
Is you need a professional
to help you read data.
You can askâ¦
I, I tell my wife all the time, "Do
not go to Google and ask it why you
have an itch behind your left ear."
It will tell you it needs to be amputated,
and it will tell you that, you know,
you might need a brain scan and thatâ¦
It will do the same thing to your
finances when you ask you that
'cause it just doesn't know all
the context and why you're asking.
And
Mike Pine: so-
I got a story.
I gotta share a story
with that- Okay â¦on
healthcare.
So I've been having a lot of back
problems, getting all these tests, bone
scans, bone density scans, MRIs, different
MRIs with contrast, without contrast.
And I got all these doctors
telling me different things.
So I, I put it all into one
big old document or one folder.
I upload it to, to Grok, and I said,
"Tell me what's going on with my back."
Um, and it summarized and said, "Well,
you need to get surgery, um, immediately,
and you're probably not gonna be walking
in three weeks," or something like that.
Freaked me out.
You might die.
So immediately I called the, the
new back doctor I'm with, and he's
like, "Dude, don't, don't do that.
Don't go there."
That's what people are doing to us.
"Come meet with us."
But yeah, the people
are doing that with us.
Can, can you give a couple examples?
Kevin Scheider: Yeah, we, well, I
know we wanted to wrap it up, but
Jake Jordan: is just- Yeah
Kevin Scheider: Yeah.
So it's just like- The names are
redacted ⦠we-- we're-- So now what
we're seeing is we are delivering
tax returns to our clients, and they
take their tax returns and they dump
it into Groq, which is a good thing.
I mean, sure.
Sure.
But it is asking very technical
questions like, " Why is form
number 6251 and what this numberâ¦"
And, and the clients are then
taking that output and they're like,
"Here's 20 questions the AI spit out.
Can you please answer these?"
And our management team's just
Mike Pine: just like,
Kevin Scheider: "What, what do I do?
This is gonna take me three
hours to, to get to the bottom of
Mike Pine: why we do what we do."
Kevin Scheider: And we did it right,
but- And we did it right, but the AI
is questioning things or whatever,
and they s- it's, that part is hard
because we don't bill by the hour.
So our management team's
like, "Do I reply to this?"
I'm like, "Just pick up the phone
and tell them, 'Hey, if you want to
meet, let's meet over the return.
There, there might be
some good points in here.
If you have concerns over
this, let's talk about it.'"
But I cannot sit here and address
20 questions about technical
Mike Pine: tax forms and
things like that, so.
Not to mention, when I get clients,
we get clients that come in with
these hair-brained tax ideas.
Like, we'll, we'll consult with them and
say, "Hey, look, this is a tax issue.
Here's some ways to do, to
handle it that you're gonna be
hit with in a couple years."
And they'll come up withâ¦
They'll go in AI and do massive
amounts of research, or AI does.
They come back with all these
hair-brained ideas, and I have to
spend hours and hours reviewing these
to tell them why they don't work.
And some of the clients are like,
"But, but ChatGPT says it does."
And then I was like,
"But I say it doesn't."
They're like, "Well,
show me the citation."
And I'm like, "I-- Fine, pay
me for two more hours, and
I'll go find you a citation."
It, it does get annoying.
One last thing.
I know we're going late.
I'm sorry I'm, I'm winded.
Long in the tooth, they say.
With security and AI, that's an issue
that, that concerns us, and this is
a roadblock we're running into right
now, is we're trying to get one of
the AI providers to provide us a
confidentiality and, like, a security
agreement because we have a lot of
confidential information of our clients.
Um, we-- It's, it's our professional
requirement, um, under so many different
reasons, to make sure that we don't allow
our client information to get out there.
Large language models, when you're
asking them questions generally, they're
taking your questions and feeding
it into their AI to improve the AI.
How do you know what
Jake Jordan: know what
you can share and what you can't share?
Yeah.
So anybody who's been in
blockchain or cryptocurrency,
they call this, uh, cold storage.
So, uh, in old school,
it's called a file cabinet.
It-- So you keep yourâ¦
And especially in finances and healthcare
right now, what they're-- They'll be
the last to adopt all of the things, uh,
just like education and universities.
Those are the areas where industries
are-- They're just the last.
So what me- that means is they'll put,
uh, transactional information, uh, emails,
calendar invites, uh, voice calls that
were allowed to be, uh, recorded, they'll
keep that in the AI-accessible area.
But then all the, the, the numbers and
the actual tax return stuff, you keep
it away from a network altogether.
'Cause there are horror stories, uh,
out there of AI going in and deleting
everything off your hard drive, um,
rebooting things, and these are big
companies this is happening in, who
have, who have just jumped both feet in.
Pioneers, God bless them, right?
That's why we have them.
But the, the answer to that is keep
your most secure stuff in your, you
know, your safe under your bed or in
your closet, and then everything else
they already have access to anyway.
Big Brother's watching.
The, you know, my phone in my pocket
is recording us right now, even though
it's not, says it's not recording.
You know, it's all beenâ¦
It's w- it's all out there now.
So just protect yourself where, and the
most important stuff, um, and then just
know the rest of it's already accessible.
So take advantage.
I mean, use it well.
Uh, I, I would say m-move
with, uh, caution, but with
Kevin Scheider: optimism
with your own stuff.
Yeah.
There, there was a day and time when
I was a first-time home buyer in the
early, like, 2000s or so, I would shred
Jake Jordan: mail
Mm-hmm Do youâ¦
Did y'all ever
Kevin Scheider: shred your mail?
Like- I still shred certain- But like
for-- It would be like junk mail.
Yeah.
It's just stuff.
And I would shred it because
my name-- I was like, "My
name and address are on there.
I cannot let someone dig in my trash
and know where Kevin Schneider lives."
That's it.
Heaven forbid.
That's it.
But now I just get it and I literally,
I check my mail and it goes right into
the trash 'cause I was like, you can
literally Google or go to the text now,
everything's online with the county.
Oh, yeah.
You couldâ¦
It's like, what am I protecting
myself from at this point?
It's almost to that degree where
I'm comfortable knowing, like,
Mike Pine: okay, my name and
Jake Jordan: address is out there.
What would
you do?
That's right.
A lot of
Kevin Scheider: That's right.
But- Most of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Unfortunately.
Unless you just wanna completely
Jake Jordan: disconnect
and go live in the hills.
Yeah.
In that
Kevin Scheider: Bosque, this is not
Jake Jordan: episode for you.
No.
Mike Pine: No.
Jake Jordan: No.
Yeah.
We'll meet you at the
wooden table with a, a
Kevin Scheider: candle and
Mike Pine: taxes that way.
Let's do that.
Kevin Scheider: just talk exactly.
Jake Jordan: Jerry Maguire.
That's right.
The seal.
Mike Pine: Awesome.
Jake Jordan: All right.
Different
Mike Pine: model.
Not as profitable probably.
Well, thank you for being here, Jake,
and I know for your viewers this
has been a very different episode.
We haven't focused so much on tax,
but y- you can't pass up and, and
put your head in the sand when it
comes to AI, and we, we felt like it
was really important to discuss it.
Um, it's not easy figuring out a new
way, especially if you're our age.
If you're the young kids like
my nephew, AI's like duh.
But for us, it, it's hard to
figure out how it can help you.
But if we don't invest the time, if
we don't bring in the experts, um,
we're, we're gonna be left in the dust.
So I would highly recommend you continue
to think about AI, figure out how to use
it in your business, um, and reach out
to experts when AI tells you something's
right before you accept that it's right
Jake Jordan: right.
right.
Kevin Scheider: Well, thank you
so much, Jake, for joining us.
Um, before we go, last time.
Do you haveâ¦
I- like, if someone wanted to work
with you, you do so many things on
the nonprofit side and kingdom work.
Mm-hmm.
Would you take maybe a minute and
just share, you know, what it is you
do, and if people are so inspiredâ¦
I mean, Jake is just a
tremendous man to even know.
So any of our clients out there,
Jake Jordan: uh, he does a lot of mission
work, so would you- Mm-hmm ⦠share?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, I mean, I'm a business advisor.
I've got a background in sales,
marketing, operations, uh, but I just
really like advising people who have
big vision, uh, like these guys, which
is why it was an instant sort of,
"Yeah, let's go figure stuff out."
Um, and so I sit on boards, and
I have a nonprofit with my wife.
Um, and so if, if you're ever
interested in talking about a big
idea and, and growing something,
I, I'd probably be interested.
But particularly if you are a follower
of Christ, uh, and you've got a big
vision for the Kingdom, uh, of God,
then I'm, I'm definitely your guy toâ¦
'Cause I would at least know somebody you
might wanna meet, uh, if nothing else.
So, um, yeah, uh, my information will
be below, uh, down in the description
Mike Pine: if you wanna reach out and
just have coffee, and I'm always open.
All right.
Please like and subscribe.
Um, thank you for joining this
podcast, and we'll see you next week
Thank you for listening to this episode.
Revo Taxpayer Advocacy LLC is not licensed
or registered as a CPA firm with the
Texas State Board of Public Accountancy.
I'm a CPA, Kevin's a CPA.
We have a lot of CPAs on staff that are
licensed and held to the same standards.
However, when we decided to be
revolutionary and change our
name to Revell Taxpayer Advocacy,
the state board would not allow
that and let us remain licensed.
They say we have to have one
of our names in the firm for
us to be licensed as a firm.
And guess what?
It's not us that's important.
It's revolutionizing the way you feel
about taxes and saving you money.
We are advocates for you, so we were
willing to drop our firm license even
though we're still individually licensed.