Talking About Jacques Audiard’s The Beat That My Heart Skipped with our guest, director John Patton Ford
In this delightful episode of Movies We Like, we have the pleasure of welcoming director John Patton Ford to join us – Andy Nelson and Pete Wright – for an engaging discussion about his career journey and one of his all-time favorite films, Jacques Audiard's The Beat That My Heart Skipped. The conversation kicks off with John sharing a fascinating anecdote about how his appearance on our podcast The Next Reel a decade ago unexpectedly played a role in a legal situation involving one of his scripts. The discussion then shifts to John's experiences as a writer trying to break into the industry and his bold decision to transition into directing, which ultimately led to the creation of his critically acclaimed debut feature, Emily the Criminal.
John shares the challenges he faced as a first-time director, from his successful short film playing well at Sundance to getting his script for Emily the Criminal into the hands of the talented Aubrey Plaza. He shares how their mutual desire to showcase their talents in a gritty, compelling thriller helped bring the project to life. The conversation then takes a passionate turn as John reminisces about discovering The Beat That My Heart Skipped during his early days of filmmaking and how the film left an indelible mark on his creative journey. He effusively praises the movie's raw authenticity, captivating storytelling, and unforgettable ending.
The Beat That My Heart Skipped is a film that beautifully captures the complexity of the human experience, as the protagonist navigates the gritty world of the underground real estate market while rediscovering his long-lost passion for piano performance. We explore with John the parallels between this film and Emily the Criminal, noting how both movies brilliantly capture the idea of characters pushing their boundaries and expanding their sense of self. While The Beat That My Heart Skipped may be a lesser-known work in Audiard's impressive filmography, it remains a powerful and influential piece of cinema that continues to resonate with aspiring filmmakers and audiences alike. John's infectious enthusiasm for the film makes for a great conversation, leading to a truly captivating episode that is sure to inspire listeners to seek out this hidden gem and experience its magic for themselves. So sit back, relax, and join us on this delightful journey as we celebrate the enduring power of great storytelling and the films that shape our lives.
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About The Beat That My Heart Skipped
Talking About Jacques Audiard’s The Beat That My Heart Skipped with our guest, director John Patton Ford
In this delightful episode of Movies We Like, we have the pleasure of welcoming director John Patton Ford to join us – Andy Nelson and Pete Wright – for an engaging discussion about his career journey and one of his all-time favorite films, Jacques Audiard's The Beat That My Heart Skipped. The conversation kicks off with John sharing a fascinating anecdote about how his appearance on our podcast The Next Reel a decade ago unexpectedly played a role in a legal situation involving one of his scripts. The discussion then shifts to John's experiences as a writer trying to break into the industry and his bold decision to transition into directing, which ultimately led to the creation of his critically acclaimed debut feature, Emily the Criminal.
John shares the challenges he faced as a first-time director, from his successful short film playing well at Sundance to getting his script for Emily the Criminal into the hands of the talented Aubrey Plaza. He shares how their mutual desire to showcase their talents in a gritty, compelling thriller helped bring the project to life. The conversation then takes a passionate turn as John reminisces about discovering The Beat That My Heart Skipped during his early days of filmmaking and how the film left an indelible mark on his creative journey. He effusively praises the movie's raw authenticity, captivating storytelling, and unforgettable ending.
The Beat That My Heart Skipped is a film that beautifully captures the complexity of the human experience, as the protagonist navigates the gritty world of the underground real estate market while rediscovering his long-lost passion for piano performance. We explore with John the parallels between this film and Emily the Criminal, noting how both movies brilliantly capture the idea of characters pushing their boundaries and expanding their sense of self. While The Beat That My Heart Skipped may be a lesser-known work in Audiard's impressive filmography, it remains a powerful and influential piece of cinema that continues to resonate with aspiring filmmakers and audiences alike. John's infectious enthusiasm for the film makes for a great conversation, leading to a truly captivating episode that is sure to inspire listeners to seek out this hidden gem and experience its magic for themselves. So sit back, relax, and join us on this delightful journey as we celebrate the enduring power of great storytelling and the films that shape our lives.
Welcome to Movies We Like. Each episode, Andy Nelson and Pete Wright invite a film industry veteran to discuss one of their favorite films. What makes a movie inspirational to a cinematographer or a costume designer? Listen in to hear how these pros watch their favorite films. Part of The Next Reel family of film podcasts.
Andy Nelson:
Welcome to movies we like, part of the True Story FM Entertainment podcast network. I'm Andy Nelson, and that over there is Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
That's right. It is.
Andy Nelson:
On today's episode, we have invited director John Patton Ford to talk about Jacques Audiard's the beat that my heart skipped, a movie he likes. John, welcome to the show.
John Patton Ford:
Hi. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Andy Nelson:
It's a thrill to have you. I mean, we chatted with you, I think, 10 years ago when you had your script first on The Blacklist Yeah. Over on, on on our show, the next reel. We chatted with you briefly, because we were covering on that show, we were covering the, Alec Guinness film, kind hearts and cornets.
John Patton Ford:
Oh, yeah.
Andy Nelson:
And so we talked about you and your script. I think you've you've changed the name. It was called Rothschild at that time. At the time, you were saying you you were getting calls from people because, I think Mike Nichols people had, wanted to do a remake of kind hearts and coronets. I think that you had said that the Rothchild family had actually contacted you in concern that your script was named that.
John Patton Ford:
Well, you guys are gonna love this. So I completely forgot that that would that that's what we were talking about 10 years ago. There was a long and storied, shall I say, legal situation that lasted for years. And I With
Pete Wright:
the Rothschild family?
John Patton Ford:
I can't tell you. That's just a stupid thing. It sounds like I'm making it up. So it was part of the settlement that I can't publicly speak about. Oh, no.
John Patton Ford:
So alright. But I will say that I will say this. I will say this. That podcast that I did 10 years ago, let's just say, that played into the legal situation. They found the recording,
Pete Wright:
and
John Patton Ford:
it was part of your voices, and my voice was played back to me in, like, a deposition.
Pete Wright:
Oh my god. I gotta say, I if it was in a negative context, John, I'm sorry. But, Andy, I feel like you and I have just arrived.
Andy Nelson:
Is that what it is?
John Patton Ford:
It was I can tell you it was not in a negative light, and it it actually ended up helping things. So Oh, good. I have only a positive Avlovian response for hearing your voices.
Pete Wright:
Oh my God. God, that is crazy.
Andy Nelson:
That's crazy how things work and, you know, because I was gonna ask you with this conversation. I mean, we're here. We're gonna talk about ODR's fantastic film here in a little bit, but first, we wanted to talk about you and your career and and how things have gone since, I mean, since that initial conversation we had with you on the next reel about, about your script being on the blacklist. And it's at the time, you're just like, well, I'm trying to find these different directors. I don't wanna direct this at all.
Andy Nelson:
And here you are. You know, things have changed over the last 10 years. You direct your write and direct your first feature film, Emily the criminal, which is a fantastic film. In a year of fantastic films, it's like one of my favorite films of the year. And then now you're actually in the process.
Andy Nelson:
You've just finished production of this film based on your script.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. I did. I just shot it, over the past couple of months in, in South Africa of all places. We shot South Africa for, like, New York and New Jersey, which I don't really recommend doing, actually, but we did it.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
John Patton Ford:
And it's yeah. I mean, it's you know, God, that was 10 years ago. It's been a long journey. You know?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
And making that first movie put me in a position where I could make something much bigger and more elaborate, and we just happen to have the right interest from the right people. And, yeah, it it happened. Wow. Definitely happened. Right now, I'm about to start, editing the movie.
John Patton Ford:
I'm about to start post. So it's like 208 scenes. It's a lot. It's a lot.
Pete Wright:
And and, what's the title of it now?
John Patton Ford:
I actually don't have a title right now. It was shot under the working title, Huntington, but that will not be the final title. So this thing is gonna have multiple titles. I can't quite tell you what it's gonna be called when it's all said and done. But, you know, it's stars Glenn Powell and Margaret Qualley and Ed Harris.
John Patton Ford:
Cool people.
Pete Wright:
Do you know I I I was gonna ask, you know, sudden like, you've been working on this film with Glenn Powell while he became kind of the Hollywood it guy. Yeah. Right? Like, it it seems like just like 4, maybe 6 weeks ago, he was just a good looking guy, and now he's everywhere, and you had him.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. Yeah. Similar in a way, a similar story to Aubrey Plaza, I guess, in a scaled down slightly different sense. We now got Aubrey before she did White Lotus, and then we like, Netflix put the movie on their platform, like, the day that White Lotus was over. So it was Goodness.
John Patton Ford:
A lot of people working behind the scenes to time things in a very specific way that would benefit viewership. But with Glenn, you know, Hollywood's weird, man. Like, you you get around these people, you get around agents, you start to kind of wield the power of a major agency, and you begin to figure out that they kinda know what's going on. Like, they know what stocks to invest in that are gonna pop off in, like, 16 months. It's like investing in future futures.
John Patton Ford:
You know?
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Right.
John Patton Ford:
And although Glenn is becoming a thing now, they knew what was gonna happen a year ago. So I started started you know, I think I met Glenn in October of last year, we started talking. He was at this inflection point where he kind of he already knew what movies were gonna have his name on it this year, and he was looking to kinda diversify and have a slightly different 2025. This is at the end of 2023. So there's a lot of engineering and planning going on.
John Patton Ford:
It it wasn't completely random. Although I do say that we benefited from how well Hitman did and how well Twister is is doing. Those things could have gone anyway.
Andy Nelson:
And and also just that type of star too. I mean, he's somebody who had been around working with Linkletter for quite a while and so already kind of had those indie roots. It wasn't just, like, trying to just be the star right out out of the gate. And so I think it probably benefited you that he wanted to keep trying to do things that weren't just I mean, nothing I mean, I loved Twisters, but, you know, just something else that's not necessarily all the big blockbusters. You know?
John Patton Ford:
I think so. You know, he's just a big fan. He loves working. He loves making movie. He wants to do a lot of stuff.
John Patton Ford:
He's a very smart guy with very sophisticated taste. Even though he chose my movie. So at least he's got, you know, he's got a lot of stuff he wants to do. Do. Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. Good guy. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
Well, let's talk a little bit about your journey from getting that script on the blacklist and everything to finally getting Emily the criminal off the ground. Like, I mean, it it still took a number of years from I mean, Emily, the criminal came out in 2022. Cool. So there was still, like, an 8 year period from getting on the blacklist to finally getting that, you know, in front of people's eyes.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, that's a long conversation. I don't know how much you guys wanna hear, but this is a struggle. Like Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Just to put this into some context, I now specifically remember doing that podcast with you guys. It took me a minute, but I'm like, oh, yes. I even remember where I was. I was in my parked car at work. Like, I don't think I shared that with you guys.
John Patton Ford:
I was it was at at night, and I was doing this, like it's kind of like Uber Eats before Uber Eats. It's this company called LA Byte that I think got bought by something else. And I was on the job. I was sitting there doing the podcast hoping that I wouldn't get a call to go pick up some lasagna
Pete Wright:
or something. Oh my god. That makes everything so much sweeter.
John Patton Ford:
So that's that's what I was up to that time. And, and then what happened is that script I wrote, Rothschild down the skin called The Blacklist, which sounds like a bad thing, but is in fact a good thing. It's just a list of people's favorite unproduced movies from the year that led to a lot of meetings. Those meetings led to getting a screenwriting job, which allowed me to not do podcasts from my parked car at work. And that led to another writing job and another writing job.
John Patton Ford:
This kinda sounds like, oh, I'm doing great. But in actuality, like, these weren't great jobs. They didn't pay it that much. And working as a screenwriter is really tough. You don't quite know when the money is gonna come in, and you're not totally in control of the pay schedules.
John Patton Ford:
So I was just sort of hanging in there.
Andy Nelson:
And it's and it's writing jobs. And I mean, the in in Hollywood, a lot of times that means you're writing, you're part of a process, but you're not necessarily even getting credit on these things. Right? I mean, that's a lot of writers end up kind of in that world where all they do is come in and do touch ups and and clean up other scripts or take a pass on something, and then it maybe goes into someone else's hands, and you might never get credit for any of that.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. It's really true. I think that it's led to, like, writers being treated in a certain way. Kind of being treated as just, like, fungible. Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Like, if this one doesn't work out, we'll just drop them and get another one. You know? Like, the value of the movie is never predicated upon the the status of the writer. However, directors are quite different. I, as a writer, came to know so many directors.
John Patton Ford:
I began to work with them. I was sitting across the table from them in meetings. I was watching the way other executives responded to them, and I could see very quickly, it's just way better. Like, you're a piece you're a piece of the puzzle that they really need. They really need a director there to kinda brand the things and to attract actors.
John Patton Ford:
Right? The reason things get financed is because of an actor who's signed on board, but you're only gonna get an actor if there's a director that that actor wants to work with. So you're essentially a piece of bait for a studio. And no writer is a piece of bait except for, like, 3 of them, maybe. So I was like, man, that's you know, rather be on the other side of the table.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
So I wrote Emily the criminals and make myself and, you know, I was just lucky enough to get it going.
Andy Nelson:
Well, and getting it going is I mean, the the there's a lot that goes into that, especially when you've come into the industry as just a writer. So how did you start selling yourself as not just somebody who can direct something, but, like, I've written this also, and I want you to fund it for me.
John Patton Ford:
Here's how it went. And I'll be as clear as possible because if there's anyone who's still listening to this podcast right now with this rando guy, they probably wanna be a filmmaker and would really benefit from hearing this in a specific, like, non glib kind of way. So let me just lay it out for people. When I got out of when when I was in film school, I made a short film. It was 15 minutes long.
John Patton Ford:
It was called Patrol, and it went really well. It went about as well as you could hope a film school movie could go. Like, it's a piece of shit, and it's totally embarrassing. But in terms of student films, can't ask for much more. It went to, like, Sundance, and all these people sung.
John Patton Ford:
Then I got an Asian and a manager at Sundance. It's like the greatest thing in the world. This is the dream. Right? I was, like, 26.
John Patton Ford:
And then approximately nothing happened for years. There was years of me trying to, like, hang in there and pay off my student loans and writing and just trying to do it, but, like, nothing that was just impossible. And, so by the time that I finally began to work as a writer and by the time I finally endeavored to try to do Emily the Crumb, I had an old movie to show people. You know? Like, by that point, it was, like, 8 years old or something, but I'd still made it, and it had still gone to some reputable festivals.
John Patton Ford:
It was sold on to Sundance. And I remember, you know, Aubrey Plaza getting my feature script. And I remember at some point in the conversation, she goes, did you make a short film with Deshontes? And I said, yeah. And that was it.
John Patton Ford:
I don't think she ever saw it. She just needed to know, like, is this guy an asshole? Oh, no. Okay. Cool.
John Patton Ford:
You know what I mean? Like, she needed to know that there's something there reputable enough where she could go and defend the decision of me and my movie to her agents and her managers.
Andy Nelson:
Interesting.
John Patton Ford:
So that's kinda how it happened. Plus, I had the kind of personal faith. Like, I I knew if I could get in there, I think I can deliver because I've done it before. So that was worth that was worth everything.
Pete Wright:
As as the not speaking as the director, but as the writer, you're sitting there with Aubrey, and you're looking at at figuring out how to get her connected to the material. Do you remember what it was? Do you remember what she what she connected to in the script? I'm I'm curious how that what what that calculus is like. Right?
Pete Wright:
1st, the you're not an asshole. You had a thing that went to Sundance. But, also, what is it about the words you put on the page that she was able to resonate with? And was it the line, you wanna tell me what to do, put me on payroll?
John Patton Ford:
Actually, yeah. I think she was a big fan of that moment. I think that's one of the first things
Pete Wright:
That's a good moment, man. Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
I'm trying to remember now because I first met her in the summer of 2018. It would have been, like, 6 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So we had known each other for a couple years before we made the film.
John Patton Ford:
She had first off, let's talk about, like, how you get a script in your hands. How did she get a hold of that script? Did it come from CAA? Did it come from Courtney Kibowitz, her manager? No.
John Patton Ford:
When agents send you stuff, you might just stay in your inbox indefinitely. You know? You're probably like, that's, you know, some shit shit they want me to do so they can make money. But, like, that script that she got, Emily, the girl, that came from a friend of hers. It came from a very well known producer and editor who himself has won, like, 2 academy awards.
John Patton Ford:
And he sent it to her, like, hey. I read this, and I think you might be great for her. And she opened it and read it immediately because it came from that guy. She's like, oh, well, if he likes it, it must be alright. And so just having someone to vouch and kind of grandfather you in was a major thing.
John Patton Ford:
But then on top of that, I think it was just the kind of thing she never gets offered. It was very kind of point pointed and very blunt and very gritty in a thriller. She's done mostly comedy. So we both had overlapping, like, I don't know, if our if our endeavors, if our desires were, like, on a graph, we would both have this mildly overlapping area. Like, I need to make a movie really badly, and she needed to show people that she could do more as an actor.
Pete Wright:
That she's more than Parks and Rec.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. So that's sort of what happened. Wow. Outstanding.
Andy Nelson:
Quite a ride. I mean, it's a fantastic film. Certainly, everybody should check it out if you haven't seen it yet. Let's use this opportunity to shift our focus and start talking about this film that you picked, the beat that my heart skipped, directed by Jacques Audiard. Damn it.
Andy Nelson:
Coming into this film, I I'd seen a few of Audiard's films. I hadn't seen this one before, but I'd seen a prophet. I'd seen, rust and bone. He a director that, makes tough gritty films that I I really enjoy. And, I know I had heard of this film.
Andy Nelson:
And, certainly, I mean, Pete and I talked about the, Spanish apartment trilogy. So we were familiar with the actor Romain de Rees, from from those films. But I I hadn't seen this, and I didn't know what it was about. And and I also haven't seen fingers, which it's based on. But coming into this, I was really surprised by just how fresh it felt and how I don't know.
Andy Nelson:
There's just this sense to this story that it was about trying to figure out who you are, really. You know? And so I guess just let's start with I mean, how did you come to this film and and your do you remember your initial impressions of it?
John Patton Ford:
I think it was, like, 2,006 forever ago. 18 years ago. Was that 18 years? Yeah. Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
And, I was just really starting to kinda get into filmmaking. I was starting to make little short films, like, for real. You know, not just talking about it, but actually going and doing it. I think I was 23, and I was living in Charleston, South Carolina, which is close to where I'm from, you know, living in this little ratty apartment with, like, 5 other people. I just started watching a lot of movies.
John Patton Ford:
You know? I was, like, shooting short films and watching a lot of movies. I was kinda having my own little film school before I actually legitimately went to film school. And it was in the years when Netflix was first starting out. And to compete with Netflix, there was Blockbuster online, which no longer exists, obviously.
John Patton Ford:
But, like, the way it works is that, like, you'd sign up for Blockbuster online, and then you could get 2 DVDs in a mail. And then when you're done watching these, you could then take them into an actual brick and mortar Blockbuster. Remember those? And trade those DVDs in for 2 more DVD. So, basically, you could pay for, like, this really small fee, which I think might have been, like, $7 a month or something, and get, like, unlimited movies.
John Patton Ford:
You could just get in this infinity loop of movies. It was very silly. You could kinda tell, like, I don't think
Pete Wright:
I don't think this is a wonderful day now. Right?
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. It's like, I didn't major in economics. Yeah. I don't I think this is gonna work out. So, anyway, I started watching a ton of and it was this kinda magical time where, like, I had some shitty job.
John Patton Ford:
I didn't have a lot of, like, responsibilities. You know? We were just goofing around. I was playing in a band. It's great.
John Patton Ford:
And I used to just go to Blockbuster and just, like, walk around block can you imagine that? With absolutely no, like, agenda. I would just go to the foreign film section and be like, that looks good. I'll watch that today and just rent it and go home and watch it. Like, the I would do that all the time.
John Patton Ford:
And, it's just incredible. So anyway
Andy Nelson:
Those were the days.
John Patton Ford:
Those were the day. And it was funny because in my mind, like, the blockbuster foreign film section contained every foreign film. It's kinda funny to think about. I remember being like, here are all the foreign film. Wow.
John Patton Ford:
Look at them all.
Pete Wright:
Right? Right.
John Patton Ford:
Everything Everything Everything everything he has ever done outside of town. Is a whole hell. Anyway, I'd I'd clocked the, cover to the beat of my art skip a couple times for anyone wondering. It's got one of the greatest one sheets ever. Like, the original DVD release of it has the sickest looking cover I've ever seen.
John Patton Ford:
And I've ever seen and be like, oh, sick. Gotta get that at some point. And, and then when I was done watching fucking whatever army of shadows, I was like, alright. Let's try that. And I rented this.
John Patton Ford:
I took it home. I remember sitting there in my ratty apartment on King Street, downtown Charleston. It's like a 100 a 1000000 degrees outside with a 100% humidity. And, watching this movie, I remember it starts, and I'm just like, I was confused. I was like, oh, did this start in the middle?
John Patton Ford:
And I, like, went back to the menu. I'm like, no. This is the beginning. I'm like, okay. So I'm watching, I'm like, man, this movie really doesn't give a shit about the audience, does it?
John Patton Ford:
Like, it's just going, and it doesn't care if you understand or not. And it was like, 10 minutes later, I was like, wow. This is really, like I can't believe someone wrote this. And made it just seems like it's all really happening. Like, the level of verisimilitude is like mind boggling.
John Patton Ford:
And then it slowly starts to become this before you know it, you realize you're being told a story. It kinda sneaks up on you. And then I was just, like, complete I remember there's this part in the middle of it with the central character. I was, like, hypnotized by now, and there's this part in the middle where the central character is practicing piano in his apartment, gets frustrated, and leaves, and then he just goes for a walk, and we follow him on a walk. And I was like, this is the greatest movie I've seen ever.
John Patton Ford:
Like, I'm so in right now. What is gonna happen? Like, it just did not seem tethered to any kind of, like, did someone write that? It just feels so unwritten and yet compelling at the same time. And then we get to the ending.
John Patton Ford:
The last, like, 7 minutes of the movie. I'm like, that's the best ending I've seen ever. I cannot believe that. I can't believe that ending. The moment you figure out what's going on, you're like, oh my god.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. And the the way it goes into the ending cry I was completely floored. Now I think a lot of movies we love because they're objectively great. You know? Mhmm.
John Patton Ford:
This one, I think it has just as much to do with that moment in time in which I discovered it, as it does with the actual objective quality. But, you know, most people are much bigger fans of Rust and Bone or a Prophet. You know? This is seen as a lesser ODDD movie. It's one that people don't even really talk about much anymore.
Pete Wright:
It's one that's hard to find.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. It's really hard to find. You can actually watch it on YouTube in French, by the way, if you're curious, if you really wanna get confused. But it just hit me at a certain period of time in which I was just a sponge absorbing all kinds of things, and it seemed to be this bizarre thing out of complete the left field. Like, where did this come from?
John Patton Ford:
Who is this person who made this? And then imagine and no one had heard of him. I remember going to film school. No one had heard of this guy. No one's seen this movie.
John Patton Ford:
No one's like, who is this? And then 3 years later, he wins Cannes, and everyone knows his name. I was like, I told you.
Andy Nelson:
I knew then Right.
John Patton Ford:
I had a feeling about this guy.
Pete Wright:
It's extraordinary. It took me a minute to realize that it's a principally a piano movie. Right? First of all, like, I am mad for piano movies, and the fact that we get this guy who's a tough in the in the weird sort of underground real estate market and ends up being somebody who is, you know, an exemplary piano performer that he's trying to find that part of himself. The it's one of the most interesting pieces is watching Emily the criminal and this movie back to back that they're both we contain multitudes movies.
Pete Wright:
Right? There's that human experience of, I think I know who I am, and I'm not yet sure what I'm capable of, but let's explore that. And this, you know, beat that my heart skipped is is extraordinary because he is in this this role of trying to figure out, like, I I I think I know who I am. I'm good at this part of myself, but this thing I gave up as a kid, piano performance, is a thing I think I'm capable of of being too, and that's so hard for audiences to kinda to to kind of hold in one place. Same thing with Emily.
Pete Wright:
Right? Like, this this whole idea that she is this person who's just trying to pay her bills and trying to get her stuff done and is capable of this whole different side of her life that makes both of these movies, I think, really expansionist, human expansionist properties that I I I got an enormous amount of joy watching back to back. Like, they were just perfect.
John Patton Ford:
Hey, man. I hope so. I remember we we kept when we were making Emily, we kept saying, like, we're making an Odyard movie, but in LA. Like, if Zach ODR were like in his thirties in the little Los Angeles, like, what kind of movie would you make? Probably something that looks like this that has a lot of, like, Armenian people in it and like a lot of, like, angry driving and stuff.
John Patton Ford:
Like, I don't know. Like, it,
Pete Wright:
there's an actual sequence. Do it was it I I gotta ask if it was intentional because there's an actual shot where, you know, Emily says, you know, yeah, I could I could go easy. I could have a glass of wine and, like, then she's partying, and they end up in a stall in the bathroom with this high overhead askew shot. And that shot is also in the beat that my heart skipped. Did you know it?
Pete Wright:
Are we homaging here? Because it's it's so beautiful.
John Patton Ford:
Oh, yeah. There's so much. There's so many there's so many things I directly ripped off from that movie. There's so many things. There was an entire sequence that was directly a rip off when we cut it out because it just didn't work.
John Patton Ford:
But, that part in you did my hard skip where he goes to his dad's house and he's trying to get his dad to, like, give him an answer about something, and the dad's avoiding it. And he just starts destroying the apartment. He just, like, flips the coffee table over inside of his dad's house. Okay. It's the most frigging thing that's ever happened.
John Patton Ford:
We, we had that scene. There's a scene where Emily is trying to get an answer out of. He's such a romantic interest, and he's refusing to tell her, and she starts, like, wrecking his apartment. And, I learned that, you know, there's some things you can only do if you're Jack O'Neill and if your media just doesn't work. But it was I had fun completely ripping off a movie that most people have not seen and then taking the credit for it.
John Patton Ford:
It's a great position in the end.
Pete Wright:
But also totally, like, totally worth it. Like, it doesn't feel it it doesn't feel like ripping off. It feels like, oh my god. This is celebrating one of the greats that nobody's heard.
John Patton Ford:
Well, to be fair, the beat that my heart's killed is itself a remake Yeah. Of an American movie called Fingers from 1977 directed by James Toback. There's a James Toback's debut movie with Harvey Keitel.
Pete Wright:
Okay. So I haven't seen Fingers. Andy, have you seen Fingers?
Andy Nelson:
It's no. I I looked for it, and it also is very hard to find, harder to find than the beat that my heart skipped. I couldn't even find it on YouTube. I did watch the trailer so that I had a little bit of a sense of it, but it's a tricky one to track down. And I did read some reviews that kind of compared this to that film.
Andy Nelson:
And, I mean, it seemed to think that people were people felt that this film, while it was remaking it, was still respectful of what Tobac had done in that version. I don't know. Have you seen it? Have you been able to track it down? Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. Yeah. I have. I mean, I would say that ODi art is
Andy Nelson:
still on blockbuster at that time. Blockbuster.
John Patton Ford:
I'm right. Exactly. Yeah. I I I walked down to a RadioShack and got a copy. Yeah, I'd say ODY arts is a much better movie, but it's a, you know, that's a movie made by a guy with that point wasn't Shifty's and already made, like, 10 movies.
John Patton Ford:
Whereas, like, fingers is James Toback's first movie as a kid.
Andy Nelson:
So Right. Right.
John Patton Ford:
It's interesting. It it's interesting to look at it through the lens of, like, how were we Americans perceived by the French in the at that time? Like, American movies, like, those kind of, like, gritty seventies cop movies of, like, Mean Streets and The French Connection were so popular in that part of the world. And, it affected an entire generation, and Odeidard would have been a young man at that point. And then, you know, 30 years later, he goes and makes something that is just directly out of his own childhood and spits it out.
John Patton Ford:
And now we as Americans see it. It's this bizarre dialogue that's been going back and forth between the two countries forever. And it's, you know, fascinating to why. And then they make my movie, which is a complete knockoff. And,
Andy Nelson:
let's say homage.
John Patton Ford:
And now they're trying to they're trying they're trying to remake Emily the criminal in France right now.
Andy Nelson:
Are they really?
John Patton Ford:
Like, as we speak. Well, it's like a whole thing. That's why. That's I know. I I wanted
Pete Wright:
to get insert yourself into the conversation. That's fantastic.
Andy Nelson:
So you
Pete Wright:
can get
Andy Nelson:
it in in ODR's hands.
John Patton Ford:
Just happy to hear. It's alright. You'd be like, what is this?
Andy Nelson:
This this film, there's an element of this film that we've kind of touched on a little bit, but, it was such a fascinating part of the story for me. You know, it starts off with this conversation between, Tom and his friend. As his friend is kind of relaying this relationship that he is this evolving relationship he's been having with his father as his father is aging, and he now he's finding that he is the one who has to be the caregiver and taking care of his father. And that's a part of this film. We certainly see that with Tom as he is trying to figure out, like, he I don't know.
Andy Nelson:
My my sense of it was that it was kind of maybe a family business. Maybe his dad had also been in kind of these real estate sorts of this this shady real estate kind of this this sleazy sort of the side of real estate where you're dealing with a lot of, like, the criminal underground sort of people and, you know, planting rats in places, where you can just get tenants out, like all the sorts of dirty dealings that they're doing.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding strategy. Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Right. It seems to work.
Andy Nelson:
And his dad seems to have been in that, but is that a point in his life where he also can't really do it anymore and is is asking Tom several times over the course of the film, can you take care of this for me? This guy's not paying. And that's a big part of the story is using or looking at your parents as, I don't know, I guess you could say, like, inspiration or just a place to start when you're trying to figure your life out because that's where he ends up, in his life. And then, of course, we learn, as we've been talking about, like, his mother had died, I think, like, 8 years prior, and he had she had been a a great pianist, concert pianist, and he had given up piano at that point. But now after having seen her manager, it's kind of, like, reignited that passion.
Andy Nelson:
And now he's trying to like, that's kind of a catalyst for him to to refigure himself out. And so there it's it's a fascinating film because it's this journey about trying to figure out who you are and how you're gonna define yourself. Am I gonna model myself after my dad, or do I wanna model myself after my mother in this particular case? But it's also like these relationships of with your parents, and I don't know. It's it's a fascinating exploration.
Andy Nelson:
I guess I'm just curious, like, in the scope of that sort of relationship when you're dealing with, trying to figure yourself out, I mean, what are you pulling from that when you're watching this? Because I think there's a lot to say about those points.
John Patton Ford:
I think one of the things that I love, one of the things I've taken away the most from the movies of Jacques Audiard, all of them, is that he understands what story he's telling on, like, an atomic level. In a world where no one really knows what they're doing, I'd say he's one of the rare people who, like I think he might actually know what he's doing. There are, like, 4 people, and he's one of them. He just knows what story he's telling, and he understands what those themes are. And you watch this movie for the first time, and it just seems like this almost documentary level spontaneous thing.
John Patton Ford:
And then you keep thinking about it. And they're like, why am I still thinking about that? And you go watch it again, and you're like, holy shit. This like, he buried this thematic thing here so deeply, and yet he knows exactly where it lies. On the surface, the beat of my heart skipped is a thriller, right, about this guy whose dad who has to, like, perform crimes for his dad and then is torn because he also kinda wants to be he wants to do this other thing, but there's stakes either way.
John Patton Ford:
His dad's like, go collect money from me or they're gonna figure out a way to take care of this Russian guy or he's gonna kill me. You know? And he's gotta go do that and take care of this Russian guy. And then there's the piano, though. You have a piano recital call.
John Patton Ford:
You gotta, like, practice for that. It's like this thriller about, like, stressful agendas. And yet when you watch it multiple times, it's just about who are you gonna be like, your mom or your dad. That's it. And the decision to make his mom not present, she's deceased and has only a voice that we hear on a tape that he plays, gives her this kind of spectral presence over the movie in a very cinematic and very unique kind of way.
John Patton Ford:
It's just awesome. And just break like, the level of, like, understanding how to make those themes material and cinematic, it just okay. Let me give you an example. So his dad represents one thing. Right?
John Patton Ford:
His dad represents a life of being transgressive and kind of crime. I think his mom represents a life of art and genuinely kind of trying to express himself. And our central character is torn because he likes both of those lives very much and doesn't know which one he wants. His dad's world, his dad's life is always yellow. So in the movie, if you watch, his dad only wears yellow.
John Patton Ford:
Like, he's got a yellow jacket. He's got a yellow blazer. He's got a he hangs out in a restaurant that, sure enough, the walls are yellow. That's all yellow. Even his apartment, like, it's kinda piss yellow.
John Patton Ford:
And there's this like, everything that has to do with his dad and what his dad represents is generally that color in the show. Now there's this moment where a central character is driving along, and he sees his old piano teacher on the side of the road. He just happens to pass this guy. He used to give him a piano lesson. And he tries to pull over.
John Patton Ford:
He says, oh, I wanna talk to that guy. That guy represents some other desire that our central character has that perhaps he also wants to pursue at the behest of crime. And he tries to pull over, and you know what happens? There's this guy on a bicycle who rides past, and, like, he almost hits him when the guy, like, pounds the hood and he's like, ah, and the dude's wearing a fucking yellow jumpsuit. Interesting.
John Patton Ford:
Crazy. Yeah. And do you watch it once and you just think, oh, there's a and then you watch it again, you're like, this this is the level that ODR is working. Like, every little thing is like that.
Pete Wright:
But isn't isn't even the other piano teacher. Right? Isn't he wearing a blazer over, like, a mustard yellow sweater?
John Patton Ford:
Is he really?
Pete Wright:
I think he is. And that's
John Patton Ford:
my entire my entire, my entire hypothesis.
Pete Wright:
But it doesn't. I don't think it does. I think it actually cements it because here he is. Like, this is the alternative father figure. Right?
Pete Wright:
This is another guy who can give him opportunity. And, I I think it makes I think it makes total sense.
John Patton Ford:
Into the he's only gotten better at it. You know? If you look at, like, a prophet, it's even deeper in that direction.
Pete Wright:
Well, I'm I'm curious where you where you stand at the at the end because, like, great movies that trust the audience, I think there is a there is a character question that's open at the end of the movie. The what happens principally on the surface is he's going to you know, we see him drop off his former piano teacher, the Chinese woman, and and she goes in and he parks the car and comes back and notices that there is somebody else there. The Russian is there, and he goes about exerting violence on the Russian that originally murdered his dad. Then we get an incredible sequence just performatively, maybe one of the best I've ever seen of an actor displaying what it's like to finish a fight. The displaying what it's like to finish a fight, the adrenal rush, the shaking over the sink, like, it's just extraordinary.
Pete Wright:
And then he goes in and takes a seat and watches now that he has become sort of the manager, like, he's found his place. Is there ever a question about whether one of these lives is resolved? Like, to to me, I watch this guy, and I think, okay. He's he's found who he is in both parts. He realizes his true part as a musician, but he also is still capable of the the more violent pieces of his nature.
Pete Wright:
Do we have any sense that he's learned anything? What has he what has he moved on to?
John Patton Ford:
That ending is so effective and correct to me, but articulating it is sort of a task because there's so much going on. It's not a conclusion where our central character gets what he or she wants or doesn't get it and learns something in the process. It's not that kind of ending.
Pete Wright:
Right.
John Patton Ford:
It's an ending where our central character learns who he is and what his challenges probably for the rest of his life are gonna be. That's the end of the movie. It's a coming of age movie that is dressed up as a thriller. Like, you kinda feel like you're watching a thriller with, like, Russian gangsters in it while you're watching it. And then it's over, and you're like, I don't know.
John Patton Ford:
Actually, I think that was a coming of age movie, but I'm gonna be in his late twenties. Yeah. For me, it's like he we go through this whole movie and he he kinda learns that he doesn't need to be like his father, that he can do something else. And then he goes and commits to doing that something else. And then, you know, spoiler alert, a couple years later, he sees the guy who killed that.
John Patton Ford:
And what is he gonna do now? And he lashes out, and the the whole thing happens. Then he goes back to the edit, he goes back to the concert, and it's kinda it just feels like this is this big thesis that, yes, this guy can have a peaceful life and a noble life, and he does not have to be like his father, but his father's always gonna be there threatening and pull him in this volatile direction. That, like, it's not that that we get over things. It's not that we learn to live with ourselves.
Pete Wright:
That as a coda, I think everything that we see is that self actualization for our character doesn't always have to be pretty. Like, it doesn't always have to be tied up nicely. He's he's learned who he is, and he's still able to be at home in the ugliest parts of himself.
John Patton Ford:
To me, it's an incredibly, optimistic ending. For sure. I find a lot of happy endings to be, kind of condescending or patronizing because they're just untrue, and they're asking us to believe something that we know is untrue. And that's very sad to me. Ironically, most happy endings to me, I just feel kinda sad because I kinda go, yeah, but that's not true.
John Patton Ford:
Whereas this is this ending that's like it just levels with you. It's like you are always gonna be yourself, but you'll probably get better at being yourself as time goes on. But you're always gonna be yourself.
Pete Wright:
The happiness is that you understand it.
John Patton Ford:
That you understand it. You're gonna be this guy who beats another man to an inch of his life and then gets up like nothing happened and goes to a piano recital to support his girlfriend and sits there in the audience listening to the fucking music. Like, it's
Pete Wright:
covered in blood. Like, it's covered
Andy Nelson:
in blood.
John Patton Ford:
Oh my god. That and it also begs the question of, like, what does it mean to be cinematic? Like, what does that mean? That ending the the kind of meaning of it that we're chipping away at. It could have been stated in so many ways, but the way it works in this movie is silently.
John Patton Ford:
There's no dialogue for the last 10 minutes. I mean, there's nothing said. It's it's all done physically and with loving it and with music and with editing. I mean, it's off the rails.
Andy Nelson:
And so much of it was with that look that his wife, I'm assuming, gives him from the stage. She just glances at him real quick in the middle of her recital, and he just kinda gives her a quick smile. That said so much to me about, about where they were and where he was with himself at that particular point in time. He he seems content and happy with his life where it is right now. He's with her.
Andy Nelson:
He's he may not be a concert pianist, but he's doing something different, and he's doing something in that creative space. And I think that's there's a a certain sense of joy that he has with that. And, I mean, even if that dark side is still there. And I think that was an interesting element too. Like, he doesn't go through with it.
Andy Nelson:
And, like, would he have been able to go through with it 2 years earlier? Had he run into the Russian in that particular point in time? We never actually see him kill anybody. We see him do some pretty terrible things. But would he have been in a state where he would have been able to kill the guy, or is that just inherently part of who he is?
Andy Nelson:
And and that was the moment that he finally had to realize it that, like, I I'm not the sort of person who can actually go through it through it, this sort of thing.
John Patton Ford:
Because we get older, we accrue more people generally. Yeah. Like, you get older and you you oh, you have a significant other now. You have that person's whoever's in their orbit, their friends and family, and then perhaps children and perhaps you know, it's like you kind of gain people. And that moment at the end where he's looking at his now significant other on stage, there's this thing that always crackled from you that he the stakes are higher for him now.
John Patton Ford:
He has someone else to help and to support and to love, and he can't afford to go back and be like his former self, nonetheless, be as bad as his dad because that would negatively affect this other person. And the fact that that's all achieved in this one fleeting moment that might last, like, 5 seconds in the movie, it's just this is what I mean by, like, Odiard is the fucking best. Like, he is able to get these deep thematic things so cinematically and so quickly. It's just it's so impressive. And while other movies are so much more labored and they do it with dialogue and people talking and all this shit, it's like, ODR just does it.
Pete Wright:
Like, bang.
John Patton Ford:
There it is.
Andy Nelson:
You know? Well, even to the point where he sets up 2 potential love interests in the film, we never fully get a sense that the piano teacher could be a love interest, although it kind of felt like maybe there was a possibility there. But we certainly have the other love interest who is tied into the world of his father. Right? And so even in even in romance, he potentially has that balance.
Andy Nelson:
And it was it was great to see that even if he didn't succeed at his chance to have that recital and perform well, he still ends up leaning in that direction with with time.
John Patton Ford:
There's this, dramatic question or idea, really. The difference between a problem and a dilemma. There's this, dramatic theorist from the late 19th century, I think, named Lejos Egri. He wrote a book called On Dramatic Writing. That's like the only book you need to read for screenwriting.
John Patton Ford:
Actually, I take that back. It's just one of the best. It's great. And he wrote it before there were movies. Movies didn't exist at the time he wrote this book.
John Patton Ford:
One of the one of the things he talks about the difference between a problem and a dilemma, which the way he describes it is a problem is when your central character really wants something and is having a hard time getting it. It. Okay. Simple enough. A dilemma is when your central character is trying to decide between 2 or more equally appealing things under a time pressure.
John Patton Ford:
Just that alone. It's like, yeah, it blows my mind. I'm like, wow. This dude really knew what he was talking about in 1846. Like, this movie this is, for instance, like, Die Hard is about a guy with a prop.
John Patton Ford:
Right? Like, they kidnapped my wife. I gotta get back my wife. You know? Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
I don't wanna kill a
Pete Wright:
lot of people. I get
John Patton Ford:
back my wife. Whereas, like, imagine a version of the diagram is like, do I wanna save my wife? And maybe I
Pete Wright:
Right.
John Patton Ford:
That's the difference. And, we're something like The Godfather. There's a guy who does not know. Do I wanna go clean and just live with my wife, or do I wanna be like my dad? Which responsibility is more impression?
John Patton Ford:
Which is more important? And to me, it's movies with dilemmas that seem to last the longest that we get the most mild shot of. You know? If Hamlet showed up to his family's castle at the beginning of Hamlet and walked up to the front gate, and the guards like, yo dude, you should probably go. Your uncle straight murked your dad and married your mom.
John Patton Ford:
These things are different since you've been gone. And if Hamlet was like, what? I'm gonna kill him right now. Hamlet would suck. We wouldn't be talking about it.
John Patton Ford:
It would just be like an action play. You know? But instead, he is thrown into this dilemma like, oh, man. What should I do? Like, this is my home.
John Patton Ford:
I wanna live here. Should I just put up with this, or can I not deal with this? You know? And then he starts dating this girl, and she's like, why don't you just show up when you guys be together? Who cares who's in charge?
John Patton Ford:
You know? And then he's got the ghost of his dad showing up in the middle of the night. Yo. Avenge me. He's like, Jesus Christ.
John Patton Ford:
Okay. But I'm dating this girl. She says, let's just hang on. And he's like, fuck that girl. Like, it incredible mileage you get out of dilemma.
Pete Wright:
Are you working on this script right now? Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. By the way, it's just okay. Yeah. This is the stupidest rendition that I have with this happened. Ever.
John Patton Ford:
But the point that I'm making is, like, this movie, along with all of of the arts movies, they're always about people who are torn between two things. And it continues to dramatize it up until the last morsel of the movie. And then it just, like, runs out of time, and it goes into the credits, and that that dilemma is still going in your mind. You're still there, and it never leaves you. And it's just so painful.
Pete Wright:
Well, this this is, I I think, where we we go when we talk about, like, directors trusting the audience, that he doesn't really care if if we are resolved at the end of the movie, if we understand what's going on because it's okay to live in that liminal space of not knowing where which way the direct or the character has gone and feel resolved just knowing that we got to spend a a bit of time with this guy for 2 hours and however many movie, you know, years. And we got to know that he he learned a lesson. We don't get to necessarily know what it is, and ODR doesn't give a shit.
John Patton Ford:
No. There's a lot of faith in the audience, a lot of confidence in the storytelling. He's he has confidence that you're gonna be okay. Yeah. And and that's so it's wonderful to talk to someone who assumes that you're intelligent.
John Patton Ford:
It's very, very unpleasant to speak to someone who assumes you must not be so intelligent. And this movie knows that. I remember when I was a little kid, I stayed up really late towards the road warrior, mad max road warrior, which I've never seen. It's probably, like, 9 or 10. And watched it.
John Patton Ford:
The movie's great for a 9 or 10 year old, and he chucks all those boxes.
Pete Wright:
Mhmm.
John Patton Ford:
And then at the very end, there's this, like if you remember, there's this shot of Mel Gibson alone on a highway, kinda pulling back and leaving him alone as the sun sets. There's no one around. And there's a voice over, the narration. And the narration is like, oh, and the road warrior? That was the last we ever saw him.
John Patton Ford:
We don't know what happened to him. He's just a memory from, you know and then it just cuts to the credits. You're like, what? Like, what happened to him? You know?
John Patton Ford:
I remember as a kid, like, I couldn't sleep after watching that. And now I know, like, that is just expert level storytelling. What they do is they hand you the bag. They hand the audience the bag. You're here.
John Patton Ford:
Now it's yours. You know? Yeah. And that's just top level.
Andy Nelson:
It's it's smart storytelling when you're allowing your character to be shades of gray. And, I mean, you do get all these movies where your hero I mean, they feel a little too white hat. You know? They've got a problem that they've gotta figure out, maybe even a dilemma. Who knows?
Andy Nelson:
But it doesn't feel like they're, necessarily like a real person. You know? And I I think there's plenty of movies that way. And this film, I mean, we have this guy who he he does good things. He does bad things.
Andy Nelson:
He throws fits when he's talking to people. Like, he has it out with his dad's new girlfriend, and and then his dad afterward. Like, there are things that he's doing that you're like, okay. He can be not necessarily a great guy, but I'm still incredibly compelled by him as the protagonist of this film. And I want to I want to understand his journey because I feel connected to him, and I I too feel those those pulls in different directions.
Andy Nelson:
And how do I choose? And I think that's such smart storytelling, and the part of the filmmakers is giving us a sense of a character who has those sides.
John Patton Ford:
You know, there there's this book that came out a number of years ago on screenwriting book called Save the Cat that you may have heard of. Yep. Probably the most notorious screenwriting book, and it's called Save the Cat because its primary lesson is that you should have your central character do something really redeeming beginning of the movie, like, I don't know, Save With the Cat. And that this is an insurance policy to, make sure that the audience is engaged and and that they quote unquote like the central character. I can't fault that person for having heard that.
John Patton Ford:
There's certainly a lot of people who who do love movies that do that. I'm like, yeah. I I I get it. But for me, I kinda go, I think it's too simple. I don't think you're actually getting the heart of what an audience needs.
John Patton Ford:
They don't need to like the person. They just need to believe that the person's a real person. That's it. The minute you start believing that this is a full human, you're gonna be engaged. You might not necessarily, like, wanna hang out with that person in real life, but you you'll find yourself engaged because you're convinced that they're real.
John Patton Ford:
Whereas if someone does something really redeeming or nice or cool or whatever, you never believe that they're a real person. I think that movie can only compel you so much. And this this one, beat them my heart's good. This guy is such a real dude. Like, he just does stuff where you're like, I can't believe that happened in a movie.
John Patton Ford:
I can't believe they just let the central character do like, he meets his dad in a bar, and his dad's like, you should meet my new girlfriend. She's gonna show up in a minute. And then she shows up, and his dad gets up to use the restroom, and is left alone with his dad's new girlfriend and just says the meanest stuff.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. This
John Patton Ford:
is one of the craziest scenes. He's just like, oh, you're a model. You're ugly. I can't believe they gave you a job. Like, straight up.
John Patton Ford:
And she's very upset. She's like, what's your problem? I mean, it's like, what's your problem? And then his dad comes you're like, what was that? Of course, we know what that's about.
John Patton Ford:
It's that he Yeah. Right. He doesn't like seeing his dad with anyone else other than his mom that's no longer around. But, like, the fact that it played out that way, and yet you find yourself completely believing it. You know, like, there's nothing about that interaction that seems inconsistent with this character.
John Patton Ford:
Like, I believe that this is a real guy. That's the best.
Pete Wright:
Even his his assertions of violence, like, the the sequence that I can't get out of my head, and there's a lot of crazy I mean, there's there's fights and stuff that happen. But when dad essentially lures him on the premise of, the false premise of having a social engagement at a coffee shop and actually says, well, the guy that I need you to mess up is across the street. Are you kidding me, dad?
John Patton Ford:
Street right now.
Pete Wright:
And he goes in and kinda comes in the back door after dad kinda gets it handed to him, is not able to do what he needs to do, and hits the owner of the business in the face with a cast iron pan. Like, that is it is totally unbelievable, and yet I am a 100% in that moment because that guy, that movie guy would do that thing because it is so wrapped up in the complexities of the relationship with his father that he has not come to fully understand and communicate yet. It's it's amazing.
John Patton Ford:
This is the thematic thing. Like, there's so many movies that would just have a sequence like that because it's a septice and because it's the second act of things like that are supposed to happen. Or is this, like, it is so thematically on brand? Also speaks to, like, the level of this is another thing I love about this director is his economy of storytelling. Something that I really had to learn when writing screenplays.
John Patton Ford:
Like, he sets everything up. Alright? The essential character, he's a criminal. He's kinda working for his dad, doing what his dad wants him to do. That's really hard.
John Patton Ford:
But he has a good time doing it most of the time. And then he remembers that he used to play music and kinda starts getting back into music, but it's at odds with the whole criminal lifestyle he has. And then his dad's, like, come to me to be a car. He goes to me and says, dad has coffee shop. Right?
John Patton Ford:
And this is 25 minutes of the movie. So we're in the, like, first act break territory. And his dad's like, what have you been doing? And the kid's like, nothing. Hey.
John Patton Ford:
Didn't I play piano as a kid? His dad's like, who cares? And that's like and so I was like, I need you to do something for me. And we're expecting, like, oh, this is gonna be another criminal job. Maybe it'll be next week or something.
John Patton Ford:
The dad's like, I need to go get money. The kid's like, I don't wanna talk to me. And the dad's like, it's right across the street right now. You gotta do it. Just leave it to him.
John Patton Ford:
Just that level of, like, he knows exactly when to ramp things up and how to do it immediately in a movie. And then if you remember, our central character still refuses. He's like, no. And the dad's like, you're gonna make me do it? Fine.
John Patton Ford:
And then the dad goes over there, and we see through the windows, the dad get roughed up by this guy and thrown on the sidewalk, and he kinda sadly gets the coat up. And by now, our central character's like, oh, okay. I guess I'll go. Like, he just like, the and these guys are so they're just such incredible filmmakers. Everything is traumatized as far as it can go every single time.
John Patton Ford:
A lazier writer would have the central character just get up and go over there. But, no, these people know you gotta put resistance in front of your central character at all times and kinda dramatize out every single thing. I just go on and on and then he goes over there and he cuts his hand, if you remember, during this interaction. Oops. There you go.
John Patton Ford:
He cuts his hand. He can't play piano because it's wrapped wrapped in bandages, thematically putting the It's just like it on and on and on and on and on. Like
Andy Nelson:
Right. Right. Right.
John Patton Ford:
It is just the savant level of understanding of narrative.
Pete Wright:
Just kill
Andy Nelson:
What do you think of the title? It's, I mean, it's not fingers or whatever it would translate to in French.
John Patton Ford:
You
Andy Nelson:
know, it's very different and a little more perhaps music focused. What do you think?
John Patton Ford:
The beat that my heart skipped, it's kind of a jacking up title. I think it translates probably really poorly from whatever it is in French. That will be my guess. I remember seeing it on the shelf of Blockbuster and being like, that clearly does not sound like that in French. You would never title a movie that I just can't imagine this was made for American audiences or English speaking audiences.
John Patton Ford:
It is so deep it's so French. That's kinda one of its charms. You feel like you're seeing something that wasn't made for you. You know? And that's,
Andy Nelson:
I think, true with many foreign films. You know, you're seeing the translated version or whatever they think makes sense. And I think that's what's what's interesting because it ends up sounding not quite phrased how we would put it. You know? Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
But I don't know. There's something fascinating about the title that that also draws me in because I don't know if I fully understand it, but it's such an interesting
Pete Wright:
Hey.
Andy Nelson:
Phrase, the the beat that my heart skipped.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. It's weird. It's totally oblique and kind of makes you I guess the effective thing it does is that it makes you realize the movie is about something deeper and bigger than perhaps you'd think on the surface. It's not called, like, once upon a time in Paris or something. Like, it's the the title is so vague.
John Patton Ford:
And so, like, it kind of lets you know this movie is up to something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's bigger than the sum of its parts.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Any other performances stand out for you as as ones that really shine?
John Patton Ford:
Oh, man. All of them. I mean, talk about a casting in just murderers row of incredible French actors in this movie. I mean, Romain Doreen could have been could have crossed over in the states or whatever. Never did it.
John Patton Ford:
Stayed in France. You've got, Ari Attica. It's his love interest. She's an amazing she's actually Moroccan, which is something that's completely lost, I think, upon American audiences. That woman is foreign.
John Patton Ford:
And I think that changes well, we don't get it because we just hear French and think she's French. Nils Airstrip? I don't know how to say his name. R Airstrip Airstrip, the guy who plays his dad. This great French actor has been around since the seventies.
Pete Wright:
Worked a bunch with ODR, who I think wasn't he in profit?
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. Big TV actor in France in the eighties nineties. And this was kind of the primer for his role in a profit, which is what he's mostly known for. I think he won best actor at Cannes for that. And then he went on to star warhorse, Steven Spielberg.
John Patton Ford:
Right. Spielberg. Yeah. And I was like, who's this guy? So it's fun to look at this movie, get all these names that kinda became better known after the movie's the movie's wrapped up.
John Patton Ford:
And then you know whose first movie this is? Melanie Laurent. Oh. It's the girl yeah. There's, like, this she's in it for, like, 2 sec there's a very brief scene where he he is supposed to go do some reconnaissance, and he gets distracted by this beautiful girl and, like, flirts with her.
John Patton Ford:
And it kinda comes back
Andy Nelson:
to Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. The the decision to flirt instead of do the work comes back to haunt him later. And that was Melanie Laurent. She was very young, and this was her first
Andy Nelson:
name. Wow. I so young. I didn't even recognize her.
John Patton Ford:
That's
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Well, it was kind of the same with, Lin Dan Pham, who played Maolin. And, I just she looks so familiar. I looked her up on IMDB, and I didn't realize I've seen all of her, top 4 for sure. Mister Nobody, Ninja Assassin, and Endo Sheen besides the beat that my art skipped. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Like, you talk about a Murderers Row cast. Like, it's this is one of those movies that they just they're full of faces. Full of faces.
John Patton Ford:
Everybody's great. Full of faces. Amazing faces. And so lived in feeling and so not standard. Like, every single face is so specific even.
John Patton Ford:
Even the gromainder he is. Like, who like, I remember want seeing him and being like, this guy's a movie star. Like, he is such an odd so odd and yet so compelling.
Pete Wright:
Sort of a sort of Jeff Gold you imagine Jeff Goldblum.
John Patton Ford:
Really young Jeff Goldblum.
Pete Wright:
Young Jeff Goldblum or, Yeah. Just about that.
John Patton Ford:
Like a younger Christian Bale kind of there's something really edgy and
Pete Wright:
really Yeah.
John Patton Ford:
Edgy. Scary about him. Like, you're a little scared of him. You don't quite know what he's gonna do.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Right. Right. Right.
John Patton Ford:
Before we made Emily the criminal, I tracked down a DVD of Beat Them My Heart's Gift and gave it to Aubrey. And I was like, this is pretty much your plan. You're gonna be your version of this guy, this kind of sweaty, nervous. You're always moving. You're kind of ticky, and you always seem to be dissatisfied with everything that's going on in your knee.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. I remember her watching it coming back, and she was like, why have I never seen this before or heard of this? And I was like, exactly. Why has the world never heard of this?
Andy Nelson:
I know. It's so frustrating. It's it's such a frustrating thing. And, I mean, I don't know. Odyard's done, I think, just the one American film, the my the sisters brothers, I think he did, or the English language film.
John Patton Ford:
Weirdest, weirdest choice, strangest choice to make that movie.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. And then I and I know he's got a new film that just I think it just played at con the,
John Patton Ford:
it's called Amelia Pearl. Selena. Yeah. Yeah. He just made it with Selena moment.
John Patton Ford:
Yeah. Wow. It's just a
Pete Wright:
The guy's what? 72 years old or something, and he's just
John Patton Ford:
made a
Pete Wright:
movie with Selena Gomez.
John Patton Ford:
And just made, like, the hippest movie. It's like a musical
Pete Wright:
Well, and and the fact that it's like, you look at the you know, you watch the trailer of that movie and you look at the the press shots, and it's like, that is a movie that is so full of culturally resonant color that this movie does not have. Right? The this is a a movie where you talk about the intentional use of color, but it's all shot in kind of the drab. And it it feels like a totally a a totally different guy at a totally different clearly, a totally different person at a totally different time in his life. And still, I'm as compelled to see this movie as I am this one.
Pete Wright:
It's one of
John Patton Ford:
these people who, like, he does it a little different every time. You can always tell it to him. You have American oh, like, Steven Soderbergh will make a movie, and then he'll make another movie, like, 10 minutes later, and it's completely different. And you're like, how
Pete Wright:
is that business? The business and it'll make twists. Mhmm. And then
John Patton Ford:
he writes a book and he tries to sell some t shirts. That doesn't work. And then he goes back to making movies.
Pete Wright:
Andy did buy all of his t shirts, though.
John Patton Ford:
Did he really? Yeah. I've had a few. Yeah. And, like but it's similar in the sense that there's this thing about it.
John Patton Ford:
It's you always kinda know it's him. The how his movies never waste time. They don't have establishing shots or whatever it is. And, like, hoodie heart is that same vibe, but, like, he can always tell he's in there somewhere. Like, there's something about his not giving a flying shit about the audience and if they're okay with things that is consistent throughout his whole his whole career.
John Patton Ford:
Awesome. Awesome.
Andy Nelson:
Wow. Well, I mean, it's a fantastic film. I'm so glad that you recommended it, that you brought it to our attention so that we could talk about it today on this show. John, thank you again so much for joining us, again after all this time.
John Patton Ford:
Thank you, guys. I was I feel, kinda bad in talking about a movie that listeners may have a hard time explaining. So sorry about that.
Pete Wright:
We'll put the we'll put the YouTube link in it for sure.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. There's a YouTube it's on YouTube, and it's, I mean, it's a little it has some issues in it. The it does have some subtitles now, but the subtitles do start getting slower. But at least you can watch it. At least you can see it, and it's definitely something that's worth checking out.
John Patton Ford:
Can you not get it on, like, Amazon? Is it not on, like, Prime or anything like that?
Andy Nelson:
You can buy a copy of of, like, the the Blu ray or the DVD still if you can check it down. They'll they'll pop out. But, otherwise, it's not streaming anywhere. But it's it is on YouTube, so people definitely should check it out because it's a fantastic film. So thank you so much for bringing it to our attention.
John Patton Ford:
This was fun. Thank you, guys. This was a true total pleasure.
Andy Nelson:
Do you have any place online that you send people to follow you, or do you try to avoid socials?
John Patton Ford:
Not super active on that stuff. So I have an Instagram. I really only have it because the PR team on my previous movie kind of put their foot down on a certain point. So I've got, like, 5 pictures of, like, our press thing. That's it.
John Patton Ford:
But, I do use it all the time to, you know, message people and track other stuff. So, it's just John Patentford.
Andy Nelson:
Fantastic.
John Patton Ford:
And, if people have questions or anything, hit me up.
Andy Nelson:
We'll put it in the show notes. John, again, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it and, are thrilled to have caught up with you after all this time.
Pete Wright:
Well and I think at this rate, we'll see you in 2034.
John Patton Ford:
Oh my gosh. I
Pete Wright:
know. It it felt weird to say. It's it's really weird to say.
John Patton Ford:
Hold on. Let me do it now. Not sure I needed to hear that today. Thank you, Gus. This was such a pleasure and so nice to talk about something that I love so much that I never really get to discuss in a public forum like this.
John Patton Ford:
So thanks. Well, we appreciate it.
Andy Nelson:
And for everyone else out there, we hope you like the show and certainly hope you like the movie like we do here at movies we like. Movies we like is a part of the True Story FM Entertainment podcast network and the next real family of film podcasts. The music is chomp clap by out of flux. Find the show at true story dot f m and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, threads, and letterboxed at the next reel. Learn about becoming a member at the next reel.com/membership.
Andy Nelson:
And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, we always appreciate it if you drop 1 in there for us. See you next time.