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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
What is your opinion on someone, like, mentally, like, strategic wise? What, what should they be aware of when they get into the industry? What types of resilience do you think someone coming into this industry needs to have?
Nick:They need to understand that lots of people well, not us fuel, but everyone Woah. Will have an We are kind of life now. This is what I always wanted to say. We are alive. And we're officially live.
Nick:We are officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment. Well, you know, talking about about next year, you know, let's say, you know, I mean, you are a senior designer. I'm a senior designer.
Nick:Together, we have decades of experience or two. We know what to do. You know, we we we you've been around the block. We know know the things you know, where everything is evolving into. But let's say someone's completely new, and they read, you know, sad messages on on Reddit or LinkedIn, has yet another Figma is dead, UX is dead.
Nick:Like, where do they start? Like, what should they do if they have no experience, they are completely new, and they want to get started?
Tyler:Yeah. So if they're interested in jumping straight into product design, what are the things
Nick:they They they just found out, like, hey. User experience helping users, psychology behind it, or maybe other sites. I'd like drawing, you know, UI, animations. They want to get into product design maybe somewhere in 2026 or 2027. They want to Mhmm.
Nick:Have a job. They currently have like, they're completely fresh. Like, what's the first thing or the first three or four things they should do?
Tyler:Yeah. I think number number one for me is mentorship, and that comes in two parts. So one's one's active, one's passive. So find yourself a mentor. There's a bunch of platforms that you can find where your goal is to shadow or get advice from that specific person who's in the industry that you get looking to get into.
Tyler:So find someone with with five, ten years of experience and just understand the work that they do. The other part of that is find two or three different designers that you like their work and just copy and repeat.
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:I think I think you're when you're getting into a new area, it's about copying what you see until you develop that muscle and to be till you define your personal style. So I think learning from one end, from a mentor, and then putting things in practice is is a really good step. There's a plethora of different things you you can do afterwards, but I think that might be the first step for me. So get a bit of guidance from someone instead of kind of floating in the ocean hoping you'll land on what you should be learning.
Nick:Mhmm. I think there are I I I agree. Let let's say that first, but I also think there are, like, two steps before in what you're saying. You say, like, find a mentor. There are platforms there, but, you know, what to look for in a mentor, and and what types of platforms are you talking about?
Nick:Like, do you have a specific starting point there for listeners?
Tyler:There I mean, there's what? There's ADP list. There's there's a bunch of different platforms. You can actually actually, LinkedIn might be a good source. So, like, just type in product designer senior and then click on people, and then start following and and starting conversations.
Nick:Okay.
Tyler:I think designers in general are always open to help other designers because we we know the value of it. Mhmm. So I would start there. Start following designers, reaching out, messaging, see if you can jump on a coffee chat. I think that's a great place place to start.
Nick:Right. So so what you're saying is that the person you are looking to be mentored by, they it's not required that they advertise themselves as, hey. I'm a mentor. You can schedule a call. Like, you can also just message a designer you find inspiring.
Tyler:I think so. Yeah. Because you also have to because I I think I think it's here's a strategy. So I think finding a mentor, one, is the end goal, but you have to find similar to, like, a psychologist, you have to find the right person for you. So it's about speaking to different people in the industry and seeing the vibes that you get.
Tyler:So, like, you're speaking to different people who works in different industries. So, like, do you like finance? Do you like ecommerce? Do you like these different like, find experts in those specific verticals and see and taste and see what kind of space you enjoy.
Nick:Nice.
Tyler:And then you'll get a sense of, like, the type of people that you like to interact with, especially if you're jumping into product design as a brand new space and you've never been exposed to it at all. I think speaking to a lot of people is the first step and then going to conferences, just just meeting people in general, but then finding that one specific person that can be in your back pocket that has your back.
Nick:Right. Yeah. That makes sense. So, you know, I I noticed a lot of, you know, newbies, people coming into this field, they are confused by the different keywords that we use. So one, just a quick double check, like, UX coaching and UX mentoring.
Nick:Like, is there a difference, or are they just two words for the same thing?
Tyler:I think they're the same. Just, like, I think it depends on how the person is applying it or how how they're trying to teach it.
Nick:Right. Do you think they people should when an entry level person, should they pay for coaching right away or see if they can find a bit of free help first?
Tyler:Yeah. I mean, because you're I'm assuming that you're not going foot like, you're you you've discovered product design, and it's interesting to you. I can't imagine someone wants to jump headfirst to product design without understanding what it what it entails. So do some of the free stuff. Dip your toes in.
Tyler:See if you like the space. See if your interest was valid. And then once you're fully pod committed, I definitely I definitely recommend paying for it if if it's the right person that gives you value.
Nick:Right. So not in the beginning. You know, what you said in the beginning about, you know, trying a few people out and then only when you find the right one, then perhaps. Alright? So, I mean, they they can always book a call with you.
Nick:Right? Sure. Yeah. And for me also, like, you know, full disclosure, like, I offer paid coaching, but there's always, like, the free intro call, You know, like you said, to get to know each other, see if there's a fit, and then that free meeting always has, you know, a couple of takeaways already, you know, to to give people some value right away. You know, it's more about just getting to know each other.
Nick:I want them to feel like they took something from the meeting. I think that's very important. You also mentioned copying, you know, doing you know, copying people until you see the patterns and are able to create your own thing, but you need tools for it. And, you know, assume someone is a complete beginner. They know about this thing called Figma.
Nick:Mhmm. You know? But they also are bombarded with Bold and v zero and Cursor, Webflow, Framer, all, you know, Squarespace, even, or web WordPress. What tool should they use or start with to learn before they can start copying people?
Tyler:Yeah. I mean, this is gonna be an unsurprising answer, but Figma will be the the tool of choice. There there is temptation to jump into, like, bold cursor, the five coding stuff. But, again, you need to learn to walk before you run. So Figma is a really good tool.
Tyler:There's the free tour the free tier that you've since upgraded from. So
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:It won't cost you a thing to start with the free tier of Figma. The tools. Learn how to draw your your different shapes of rectangles to make a UI. That's a really good starting point. I think that, yeah, as a tool.
Tyler:And then here's what I'd recommend. I would choose a framework to to copy or learn as well. So back in the days, material design was like the library of choice. So Mhmm. It has, like, fundamentals, how you structure components, how you should lay things out, color theory, etcetera.
Tyler:It's like the the the skeleton of, like, what apps kind of use to put together. It's it's something that both designers and then developers reference when they're building an app. First step, just try to replicate some of those components from a library, whether it's I don't know if Bootstrap is still a thing.
Nick:It is. Yes.
Tyler:Yes. Like, Bootstrap, any of those tailwind like, any of those libraries
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:Try to replicate within that system. So I think what's really important is that, like, when you're on the job working, you're not just designing the way you did this freely. There is, like, a structure you need to be bound by because you're not just designing for yourself. You're designing in collaboration with your peers so that your engineering PMs, etcetera. So Mhmm.
Tyler:To make things efficient, especially if you're working in an enterprise, you want your designs to be implemented quickly and not a lot of pushback.
Nick:Right. Right. Okay. So, you know, start with Figma. Start may you know, copying what people are doing.
Nick:So do you say, you know, just go to a website and see if you can recreate it? Is that what you're saying?
Tyler:I think so. I think it's the hard UI skills you should learn first. So, basically, just dribble your your heart out. One of those find one of those find one of those sites that just has, like, really nice work. And, again, find a designer or two that you really like their work and just try to recreate it.
Tyler:That's, like, the very first step so that you're you're refining your UI skills that's getting polished. I think that's step one. Eventually, you'll learn that if you look at most shots on Dribbble, that the UX is terrible. But,
Nick:like Mhmm.
Tyler:That's part two. Yeah. It's refining your UI skills. Part two is making though those UIs make sense. Like Mhmm.
Tyler:Some of the dashboards you see on Dravula are just, like, a bunch of components stuck together, but I don't know where anything leads or where the information is coming from. Yeah. So part two is understanding user flows and how information is passed from one step to the other.
Nick:Mhmm. So yeah. So for for you know, if if you're a complete beginner and listening to this Dribbble with three b's is, you know, is is a a social platform to share, you visuals of your work. You know? Very good to good to know.
Nick:Like, I know what it is. You know what it is, but it's it's a website. It used to be invite only. You know, it used to be all about, you know, the basketball metaphor. You had to be drafted to to be allowed in.
Nick:Were you? Like, I remember back in the day, I I I was drafted the way before they became fully open, and it was really it felt like a big achievement. Like, it was, like, 2018 or something like that.
Tyler:Yes. I remember I remember out in the wild harassing people on Twitter who had, like that was the thing of of the day. It was, like, someone posing, I have three invites. Who wants one? Yeah.
Tyler:And then, like Yeah. Everyone would raise their hand running saying, hey, please
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:Please give me an invite. And then the the proper parlance was to thank the person who invited you with that first dribble shot
Nick:Yes. Which was kind
Tyler:of interesting. So it was like a a rite of passage. Like, congratulations. You're part of the club.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I remember that fondly.
Nick:You know, it's there's a bit of UX there that we can unpack, you know, the the feeling of being part of an exclusive club, but that's, you know, it's not for today. A similar website, you know, people often call it the new Dribbble, it's Contra, c o n t r a. Mhmm. It's because Dribbble is making a few choices that that some people do not really like about external links and and and whatnot. Like, I'm I'm a bit neutral there.
Nick:Like, I I feel dribble every now and then for a bit of inspiration, visual inspiration, but I'm it's not a platform that I actively use, so I'm I'm not in the know enough to be able to have a, you know, good opinion about their changes. But lots of people are moving to contra Yeah. Which is very interesting. One thing that keeps floating my mind is what you said about, the hard skills first. You know, you have soft skills and hard skills.
Nick:I think if you have hard skills only, like, you can still design, but you might struggle selling your design and convincing people. But if it's the other way around, like, if you only have soft skills, you know, a good talker, you can convince people, people like you, but you cannot design, like, that's perhaps even worse. So I'm inclined to agree with you to to just design all day. Just live and breathe Figma the whole time for weeks before you even try and apply for a job or anything.
Tyler:Yeah. I think there's a that's a good point. So, like, the soft skills are super important. They become actually the most important thing later. But I think your what I think I would urge early junior designers or, like, people who are starting to get into industry is that at a certain point, your hard skills or your design skills starts to become diminishing returns.
Tyler:So Yeah. You don't have to be the 10 out of 10 designer. Get to a seven. That's good enough. At that point, the soft skills are become very super important.
Tyler:So, like, how you communicate because you're collaborating with others, selling your ideas because, like, just because you designed a super well polished thing doesn't mean it's gonna get approved and move forward with a client or with the team. You have to give reasoning. Backing up your design decisions becomes very useful, like, to have those strong soft skills.
Nick:Yeah. This is more of a phase two thing. How about resources? Because now we are talking you know, become a part of the community, talk to people, get coaching and mentoring while building hard skills. But there's also theory, you know, and and reading, like or watching perhaps.
Nick:Like, do do you have any any opinions or recommendations perhaps on any, like, useful resources people can can use?
Tyler:Yeah. There's the so the Nielsen Norman Group. So if you wanna search for the website, nngroup.com, they have a really good they're like the what is it? Just like just the what would you even call them? They're just like a resource that you can refer
Nick:to. Founding fathers, perhaps. Yeah.
Tyler:The founding father. Exactly. They have a really good resource of, like, UX best practices. And there really is the the go to spot for any UX designer wanting to back up the work that they're doing. So they have a bunch of, like, certifications, videos, training, etcetera.
Tyler:They're really, like it's a really good place to start. You can't go wrong. Yeah.
Nick:They you know, certifications are very expensive. Wasn't at least last time I checked. Not sure if that's changed, but they back in the day, they used to have, like, in person events where you can do you know, you can collect five credits. And then when you have five, you can do a certification. And then back in the day when you got one of those certifications, they were you know, it's a a seal of approval on top of your experience, basically.
Nick:Lately, I think also they've become less of an influence based on, you know, social media posts. It's a bit of a gut feeling. I'm not sure if that's that's if that's true, but I think so. That being said, how about books? I'm 33, but maybe I sound like I'm 50 now.
Nick:But how about books?
Tyler:I don't know if I have any advice on a books for you, to be fair.
Nick:Maybe maybe, you know, not not a book in particular, but, you know, book reading. Like, does it make sense today's age?
Tyler:I think depends on how you consume information. I think books are a really good tool if that's how you like to consume. I think whether it's a book or maybe even YouTube videos, that's good as well. I know I'm a more I have books. I read books, but I can I like consuming while I'm doing other things, and that's how I kind of retain information?
Tyler:So if I have something on the background, whether it's a podcast or something like a tutorial, that's useful. That's how I like to consume.
Nick:Yeah. I'm a bit in between. You know, I like to consume information while doing other things as well. So that's why I'm I'm all about audiobooks. So when I have to drive to, you know, a fifty minute drive to a client, you know, that gives me fifty minutes one way and, like, and back.
Nick:So almost two hours of time to listen to a podcast or listen to a book, you you know, books that I'm driving. And then the same goes for a workout or or having a quick walk outside or going to a grocery store, and I enjoy books there. If but I really agree with you what you're saying. Like, it depends how you like to get information. Some people are listeners, some people are readers, All those are, you know, viewers.
Nick:If you are interested in books, the strange thing I'm going to say now is that the best design books, in my opinion, are not about design. You know, everyone will probably recommend the design of everyday things, and don't make me think, you know, to read the classics. And, yes, read those books. But the book I read just finished earlier this week was the book oversubscribed by Daniel Priestley, and it's about, you know Okay. Yeah.
Nick:Quite quite literally, you know, getting people for you to be oversubscribed, meaning that you have more people wanting to work with you than you are able to facilitate at any given point and how to make that happen. And while listening to it, this audiobook, I had lots of moments like, oh, that's useful for your career and how you position yourself and how you sell your skills and services, that kind of stuff. You know? So it's not about design, you know, about UX and psychology and and all that kind of stuff, but it's really helpful in how you present yourself. And I think that's the key area lots of designers can can grow where I can grow myself.
Nick:Yeah. So those are good books. Then you also have books like Factfulness about, like, gut feeling and biases that people have. So tons of book books I can mention that I won't do now, but those two are really helpful, like, nondesign books for designers.
Tyler:Yeah. I think if I were to recommend one design book, I think Jake Knapp's sprint book is really useful. It's just if you want to understand how people really kind of design things in in, like, a business, like, the iterative approach, like, how to cut down to a core idea Yeah. In collaboration with your your teammates to get, like, an MVP out. I think that's a good I really like that book.
Tyler:It's an old one. I'm not sure if it's still relevant. I think it still is. That's a good one for me.
Nick:It sounds relevant. I okay. So that's that's books, you know, other resources. Lots of people ask about the Google UX course. And what do you think?
Nick:I mean, it's free, but is it is it relevant or useful? Is it time well spent?
Tyler:For UX course? I'm just a
Nick:Yeah. Sorry. The Google one, you know, the the free Google UX one? I see people
Tyler:take it. Maybe. I've not taken the Google course. Mhmm. Maybe it is.
Tyler:I feel like that's just a funnel to get people to Google. I think that's, like, just a a way to sift people in. Probably. They probably have some really good courses.
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:I wouldn't say no.
Nick:Okay. Only thing I want to say there is that it's not as magical as as some people hope it to be in a way that, you know, magical, that it's it's not going to be a job guarantee for you. Like, you know, it's not like you can sit back with your certification. Like, okay. Now I have it.
Nick:Now I will get a job. It's a starting point. But I also think, like, there's a big focus on the design thinking, you know, the five steps in order. Mhmm. Then if you don't get do not get too attached to that order, you know, then it's it's a good starting point.
Nick:I don't think it's a waste of your time. I think it's if you're a complete beginner, it's fine to take it.
Tyler:Do you think there is anything what is your opinion on someone, like, mentally, like, strategic wise? What should they be aware of when they get into the industry? Like, what maybe I'm pointing and I'm kind of feeding you guys here. Like, what types of resilience do you think someone coming into this industry needs to have?
Nick:They need to understand that lots of peep well, not lots of people, but everyone will have an opinion about your design work. You know, in in the previous episode, you mentioned, like, UX designers being, like, in the the top of the burnout lists. And I think in part, that's either because, you know, designers, we care. You know, we are about the user and and very about and that kind of stuff. So we really care about what we're doing, but also, like, everyone lots of you will get lots of feedback, you know, just to quote the legendary meme, like, make it bigger.
Nick:Can they make it pop? Make logo bigger? That kind of stuff. Like, it's a meme for a reason. It's because we all have to deal with that type of feedback, you know, weekly, monthly perhaps.
Nick:So you need to be able to handle strange feedback. Let's call it strange feedback or harsh feedback. You know, you need to be ready to to handle it. Strategy wise, I don't think you need to do too much as a junior designer. I think when you're you're a junior or a senior in any field, like, junior does what people ask him to do.
Nick:And then when you are a senior, they nobody asks you anything specific. You just know what to do. You can stand on your own two feet. So yeah. I mean, for junior, not so much strategy yet.
Nick:You'll learn that on the job on your way towards senior hood, basically, if that's the right word.
Tyler:That's the right word. Yeah. I think I think your your first point is really, really important. Like, I think design is the one thing that everyone has an opinion on. Unlike development work where you can't really not everyone has that expertise.
Tyler:Mhmm. It's it's seen as like a black box that only developers understand. Yeah. The visual nature of what we do opens up for critique because everyone thinks they're well, I mean, everyone is a designer, but everyone thinks they can do what what you do. It's because it's it's visual.
Tyler:It's tangible. They it's like, we can push things there and make it pop, like you say. The that's when the the the soft skills come into play where it's really about managing people's expectations, explaining things. Everyone has opinion, but it's about it's your job really to present well and educate the audience or who you're presenting to on the reasoning why you're suggesting this this this flow, this particular mock up website, etcetera, that's when the soft skills really come into play.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. And also just to design knowledge. Like, when they ask you, like, okay. Why this structure?
Tyler:Mhmm.
Nick:Like, a someone is completely new. They don't know because they're still in the the mimicking phase. Like, they are designing. Like, their their inspiring designer friends are designing. Like, they don't know yet.
Nick:With that being said, I think it's also good advice to start black and white only, you know, in your your really early days. Really like, not in a wireframe way. You know, it it can be high fidelity. So high fidelity meaning lots of detail. But if you leave out color and shadow and gradients and animations and all that kind of stuff like the the cherries on top, like, if you focus on structure first, I think it's it it will be way less overwhelming for you.
Nick:Like, just figure out how to make a page or a design or a form that's easy to read and understand.
Tyler:Yeah. I think it also strengthens your, like like, your architecture moss muscle. It's like making sure that the flow makes sense. So, like, you're not, to your point, distracted by the color. It's like, how does this flow kind of stitch together?
Tyler:Does all this information make sense?
Nick:Yeah. True. We're and just realizing we're really forgetting the whole AI side of things. You know, we're we're talking about hard skills, soft skills, resources, reading, courses, that kind of stuff. If someone's a bit scared, like, I will invest two or three years into my career Mhmm.
Nick:But then I'm ready to get a job, wouldn't AI have replaced me by then? What will you tell them?
Tyler:AI is not the replacer. It's the enhancer. It's never gonna replace anyone. Like, we've seen all these automation tools. Like, the differentiator is the human part.
Tyler:So, like, looking at Uber, that was great until it wasn't. And Mhmm. The that human interaction is the most important part. You should learn the tools. Here's my here's my thought.
Tyler:It's not gonna replace you. You should be able to learn the fundamental hard skills. And then once you've mastered it, learn how to automate or leverage AI to do it faster. So it's it's about AI is a basically a delegation tool
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:Based on skills that you've already mastered or or do well. Right. It's not a tool to use because you are not familiar with that space and just to automate it. It's it's similar with, like, the AI tools and, like, develop and, like, cursor, etcetera. Like, if you don't know what cursor is spitting out, you're basically just spitting out tech debt.
Tyler:So it's like, don't be afraid of any of the AI tools. They're just they're tools at the end of the day. It's like a Figma. It's like a True. Photoshop.
Tyler:It's just another tool in your tech
Nick:stack. Yeah. So that being said, I would recommend people to start manually. That's the the correct way to phrase it. No AI tools yet.
Nick:You'll first understand what to put in and how to validate what comes out. Mhmm. And only then start doing tools. And what what we said in the previous episode, pick one tool and stick to it. Like, one image generator.
Nick:I mean, today's week, who knows what happens next week, but then today's it's, you know, Gemini for images. I personally like Claude because I'm very, like, design plus plus build building focused. If you're more design focused only, and chat GBT is fine too. Just pick one and get used to it. Yeah.
Nick:Keep it simple, basically. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a bunch to to go by. So, you know, if we summarize it, download Figma today. Yeah.
Nick:Create an account. Connect to people on LinkedIn, people who share stuff, visuals for you to look at, see if you can talk to them and and rebuild what they are doing. And then there's a whole bunch more that I want to talk about, like how Figma is connected to CSS frameworks and blah blah blah, but I feel like that's going to be a bit overwhelming for someone who's completely new. So let's not do it right now. Yeah.
Nick:Of course. But I I want this to be positive because it's a great day and age to become a designer. I really think AI is or, well, design is, you know, AI is safe. Like you say, it's going to be enhanced. It's to be a wonderful time to be a designer.
Nick:So, yes, please go into design, and do not let your spirits be be be crushed by sad and toxic stories that you read online because it's probably not as true for you as it might seem at first. Yeah.
Tyler:I think design is and always has been and will, going forward, be the differentiator. So it is not being replaced. Tools are getting better. The differences between different softwares is really well ex like, traditionally well executed design, so I wouldn't have any worry there.
Nick:Yeah. Same. Alright. And, you know, as always, you know, like we did a few episodes back, if you you really feel stuck, if you need help, just comment under our videos or send us an email because, you know, every now and then, we will do an episode like the one for Loric where we are going to look at someone's situation and and try and help them out. So it's a, you know, two experienced design coaches in one video, thirty minutes of super advice, you know.
Nick:So let us know if you're really stuck. And who knows, you might end up in one of our videos. There you go. Alright. Well, that's it for the for this episode.
Tyler:Yeah. Till next time.
Nick:Till next time.
Tyler:That was a great episode. So if you like this content and wanna hear more, please like and subscribe.
Nick:Yeah. And if you want to see more, please go to designtablepodcast.com, Spotify, Apple Music, all the big players, and more.