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Interesting people, insightful points of view and incredible stories on what’s popping and not popping in marketing, tech, and culture you can use to win immediately. Brands, Beats and Bytes boldly stands at the intersection of brand, tech and culture. DC and Larry are fascinated with stories and people behind some of the best marketing in the business. No matter how dope your product, if your marketing sucks your company may suck too. #dontsuck
DC: Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds. We are at you with a special edition of Brands, Beats, and Bytes, and this is What's Poppin? What's poppin LT?
LT: What's Poppin March Madness is poppin D.
DC: Oh yeah, so that is what's poppin Brand Nerds. March Madness. We are in, this is the Thursday. Where all the games began.
I think, uh, well, I know all the men's games began. I don't know whether women's games begin today. I think that might be, uh, tomorrow, but anyway, the tournament kicks off today. Um, you all know, we'd like to do special editions. We did one for the Super Bowl. We're doing one for now. And this year is a little bit different LT. Let the Brand Nerds know what's happening with the March Madness.
LT: Yeah, it really is interesting. You know, we've, we've seen a lot in our years, both as fans and as corporate partners in this world. And, uh, so this is what we wanted to hit you from both angles, brand nerds. So we're going to give you a couple of key metrics.
So, uh, branders for those who may not follow us follows the NCAA does a selection show before each of the men's and women's tournament and the TV partners do the selection show. So. Um, the CBS in and Turner does the men's and ESPN does the women's. So D, would you hazard? So I'm going to give you some numbers. So the ratings for the men's selection show for this year was 5. 91 million viewers, which in today's television climate, that's a lot of people, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it was up 16 percent versus last year. Check out what the women did this year on ESPN. Um, they increased 52%. from 2023, their women's selection show with 1. 94 million viewers, which is by the way, the highest rating that the selection show has ever had. So that gives you some indication of what's happening both in men's and women's games and the trajectory of both. Also, I'm going to hit you with some other key ratings from last year, from 2023, the women's championship game between LSU and Iowa drew 9. 9 million viewers, which made it the most viewed women's college basketball game ever. And by the way, if you're thinking, oh, well, that's great for women. It was also the most viewed pop college basketball game on all the SPN platforms last year, men's or women's. So by far the number one rating on all the SPN for college basketball, men's or women's. And the final four, so that was the championship game, the actual final four, so it's the final and then the two semifinals, was also that most viewed weekend for, for on record, where they had 6. 5 million viewers and was an 87 percent increase from 2022. Conversely, the men's in 2023, the final between UConn and San Diego State was the lowest rated NCAA ever drawing 14. 7 million viewers again, still more viewers than women. But yes, yes, yes. Trajectory right? Um, in 2022 for context, there were more than 17 million viewers to see my North Carolina Tar Heels play Kansas, which are obviously the two real blue bloods of blue bloods. Yeah.
DC: Right.
LT: Have a lot of followings. So those are just some key metrics as we go into 2024 and, uh, us talking about this. So D what's your reaction to some of these numbers?
DC: Not surprised either way, men's game, uh, and the numbers you listed there or the women's, uh, game and the numbers you listed there. Many moons ago, uh, there was a brilliant sports commissioner. His name is David Stern. You know him well, LT. Rest In Power, David Stern.
LT: Yep.
DC: Former commissioner of the NBA, uh, Adam Silver, who's currently the commissioner, was the deputy commissioner under the iconic David Stern. David Stern made a decision in the 80s. The way to grow that league was through star players, not the teams, but star players. And here we go at that time into the, uh, Magic Bird period as the players, uh, also Dr. J was around then they then hand the torch to, uh, to Jordan. Jordan then brings along or the league brings along Kobe and Shaq and AI and the list. Goes on, but it was a players based strategy, star strategy, and it is the sport today, professional basketball, where arguably the players have the most power.
Now let's go, let's connect that to the women's, uh, college game today. It is about the players and the personalities. One could say that with the retirement of coach Saban from Alabama, uh, this year, and coach Krzyzewski from Duke several years ago, and then, uh, your great coach who coached at Kansas and at UNC, uh, what's the brother's name again?
Roy Williams. That in the world of sports today, the two most relevant coaches is. are coach Prime from Colorado and Coach Don Staley, head basketball coach of the South Carolina Gamecocks, the number one seed in the tournament today. One could also argue right now that Caitlin Clark Yep. Is the number one personality in all of college basketball, whether men's or women's, and you've got Angel Reese and you've got Juju out in South Carolina.
So none of these numbers surprised me because I think the sport of the women's basketball game has the bigger personalities.
LT: Totally agree with you. And it's, it's backed. I look this up, right? And again, some of this is dubious branders, but you'll have to go with, uh, with me here, uh, for some other metrics.
I'm going to hit you. So Caitlin Clark. According to SportsKedia. com has a three, makes 3. 1 million from NIL. Angel Reese, again, as you alluded to from LSU makes 1. 8 million on the men's side, the number one. Uh, college basketball player in terms of N I. L. It's Bronny James. That's LeBron son with all due respect to Bronny.
That's not really because of his game. It's because of his lineage, right?
DC: I agree.
LT: Yeah, right. And then the next earner again, this is according to, uh, to Onethree.com. It's Hansel Emanuel from Austin, P., who has a huge social media following, and he, uh, he makes 1. 2 million. My man Armando Baycott, shout out. Tar Heels. Um, he makes about 930, 000 a center for North Carolina, but look at even the money, because, you know, the, the women, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese are household names for sports fans, right? The men aren't, Bronny only is because of his, because of his dad. If we're being really truthful, right?
DC: Yeah.
LT: And so that that's so true, but I got to call out the, the infinite wisdom. This is the NCAA where I just, they just don't understand sometimes how much Tony Kornheiser, who we love D on PTS.
DC: We love, we love them and Will Bond.
LT: We love them. One of the things Tony says about all big sporting events. It's a television show, right?
Yes. So because it's a television show, you have to be aware of that. It's incredible that they have Iowa and LSU in the same bracket.
DC: That's a tragedy.
LT: It's unbelievable. So they're going to lose one of them for sure for the final four. It's it's not setting anything up that they, they just, they just need to be smart at what are they doing?
That's terrible.
DC: Yeah. If, if you have and the final four LSU, Iowa, South Carolina, and this is no disrespect to the other teams. And Yukon, uh, for example,
LT: or uSC 'cause USC is up and coming in the women's game too. Or,
DC: or USC. Yeah. You, you've got something that, that's a TV show. Yeah. To Tony Koen, he's point, uh, that, that's a TV show.
Uh, why do you think this is happening?
LT: I just think that it, the NCAA is clueless. I, I just think that, um, you know, the folks who, who run the show over there don't really understand that it's a TV show and that it's not putting the fix in or anything. They have to win to get there. But what we're saying is to set up accordingly where you can actually.
At least put in motion what would be best for the sport. That's what we're saying. That's what we best for the sport. And of course, if Caitlin Clark and Iowa, who's who are not a number one seed, who they can't make it there, then they can't make it there. That's on them. But why, why set it up beforehand that that just doesn't make sense.
Um, and I just find it's interesting these sports fans, there's so much more yak about the women's game. And I think you, you put it perfectly with what you led with the NBA. There are stars in women's college basketball and through no fault of the men, you know, the best players leave and I give, you know, I'm a full supporter of that.
So the best players leave and you don't feel the same connection because they're one and done. I will say this, my Tar Heels. R. J. Davis and Armando Baycott, they've been there a long time. Um, they have, yeah, they were both prominent players in the 2022 team that lost in the finals. And so I will tell you this as a, as a, uh, a UNC alum and following that team. You do have some, uh, continuity because you have those, but let's face it. Neither one of those guys through, I have great respect for him. Neither one of them are going to be stars in the NBA. So they don't become people that the overall sports fan is glomming on to see like a Caitlin clark is.
DC: Larry, last year's tournament, I realized something that flipped that I, that got by me.
And part of it is exactly what you're talking about now. And that is, uh, on the men's side of the bracket. Uh, if they're truly talented, they want to go to the league. So they're in, they're only in college, as long as it takes for them to go to the league, they want the exposure and they want the money on the women's side with NIL in particular.
Some of these college athletes will take a paid decrease.
LT: Yes.
DC: When they go to the, uh, go to the, uh, to the league, the W. Uh, but, but here's something that stuck with me, Caitlin Clark, when she would make these long, ridiculous three point shots. She would, she would put up the whole, like, you can't see me, the whole John Cena, you can't see me.
And when they played Angel Reese and the LSU Tigers and lost, this is Iowa, Angel Reese put up the same sign to Caitlyn Clark, like, yo, you can't see me now. And that's the kind of, um, trash talking, if you will, that I'm accustomed to seeing in the NBA. And I used to be accustomed to seeing. In men's college basketball.
I don't see that anymore in men's college basketball. I see that in women's college basketball because the personalities are bigger. They are bigger
LT: and you know, what's interesting, you bring up the money equation and we, and we, again, we brought it up with Caitlin Clark. I mean, she's prominent on state farm commercials with NBA players like it's, you know, and, and brand nerds that there's a reason for that because she has a real following.
What I think is really interesting is that she's already announced that she's going to WNBA, even though. The WNBA has pretty strict salary caps. She's not going to make a lot of money, uh, from the WNBA, but I would imagine that she's already talked to, uh, the folks that she, you know, her corporate partners.
And I would have to imagine that her status is even elevated, uh, beyond that, unless she's just doing it for pure basketball reasons that she just wants to play with the best players because she could come back next year. And she's already in that. She's not. Yeah. I would say.
DC: I agree, Larry, but what I don't know is when you get to the NBA and the league has sponsorship deals.
Does that preclude some other companies who don't have a lead deal, but might be a competitor to someone that does, does that preclude them from saying, I'm going to do a deal with you, Caitlin Clark or Angel Reese. Or if Juju goes pro, she probably won't, won't, uh, after a freshman year, but she could. Does that, do they say, I don't, I don't want to go in that area because I'm going to be dwarfed by the NBA, or do they think of it as a guerrilla move?
But I will say this is that, full disclosure, Brand Nerds, I mentioned Coach Prime and Coach Staley earlier. We have a great relationship with, uh, with Aflac, uh, Garth and Mal and Mad and Alex, and then the Dagger fam, all of the Dagger fam, um, uh, Mike, Mike P and the crew over there. We work well with them.
Our companies work well with them. And it's just amazing to see someone like a Coach Staley be a States person for the entire game of basketball. It's just amazing to watch her represent the game of basketball, both domestically and globally. As you all know, they had a, Oui play game, , in November to start the season with South Carolina played Notre Dame in Paris. So this is a thing. This is a thing.
LT: Well, and you, you raised something else too. When you think about the prominent coaches, In the women's game, again, you think of Dawn Staley, right? And, and obviously, uh, you have two, two of the, you know, most prominent coaches, um, in women's college basketball, uh, history at Geno, right?
DC: Geno yes.
LT: Over in Yukon, Geno Auriemma. And, uh, and of course, uh, you know, down here at the farm in Stanford, um, you have a woman who has been, and I'm blanking on her name, sorry, I, uh, I'm, I'm picturing her now. That's all right, we're gonna,
DC: keep, keep talking, I'm gonna find it, I'm gonna find it.
LT: So you, you have, you have, the women's college game has coaches that have, that have that longevity and, um, and people know the coaches.
In the men's game, there's been a big transition. You mentioned Coach K, you mentioned Roy Williams, you know, those people have transitioned on, the John Thompsons, the Bobby Knights, who were larger than life, Jim Boeheim, you know, those folks are no longer there. And so, there hasn't been the same, uh, there hasn't been the same, uh, thing that's happened where these coaches have become larger than life in the in the men's game and Tara Vanderveer.
Thanks D is uh is who I'm just blanking on and Tara's got the all she's the she's the number one wins A coach of all time in all of basketball right now. Uh, her Geno's very close, but, uh, they're, you know, they're right there. So there's also that going on in the women's game too. So the women's game has a lot of great things going for it.
And the men's game is in serious transition. Let's put it that way.
DC: Here's my challenge to the brand nerds out there who are running brands and businesses. Maybe up until now, uh, for your brand, uh, or business, you have thought of using men, uh, as, as athletes, either amateur or professional, you've thought of them in the lead, uh, position or role for your brand.
Cause even in State Farm, what you have is you've got, uh, you've got Jimmy buckets. From the Miami heat, he pops up first. Then I think Caitlin comes and then after Caitlin, then there's a, there's a Reggie who says, Oh, an old pacer. That's part of the joke. They have Reggie Miller.
LT: Yep.
DC: Reggie Miller. Thank you. So she's a part of a, like a collection.
LT: Right.
DC: It starts with, it starts with Jimmy Butler. Jimmy.
LT: You got to start somewhere though. That's a prominent position.
DC: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what my challenge is to the, to the brand nerds out there. Is to do what Aflac is doing. Push those chips out there, lean in really, really hard to the women's side of this from a personality perspective, because it could be better for your brand. Might be better.
LT: Yeah. And the other thing to mention we we've circled around it, but I want to hit it directly because the men's game doesn't have stars, right? Um, because of what we said before, because the best players You know, and by the way, some of the, some of the best, um, some of the best players now in the end, in the NBA are, um, are international players as well.
Right. So you don't, you used to get the best players coming through college basketball and some players like Jonathan coming on the warriors. Who was from Africa, but has lived here since he was 13. He didn't play college basketball. He went straight to the G league. Right. And so some of these great, um, some of these great players never even see college basketball.
And so now all of a sudden they're not relying on stars and what happened last year, um, you have what the best thing for TV ratings for the tournament. Many people have talked about this. a great upset in the first round or two. So you see the Cinderella story and we can all relate to that. But ultimately in the final four, you want the North Carolinas in the Kansas.
Yes. And, and those, those blue bloods, Kentucky and whatnot, who are, uh, who people really know in either love or hate. And they're going to, and those are going to draw ratings. So that's the ideal thing to happen in the men's side, but it's because. You know, back in the day, D, when we, we remember when Jordan was playing in the NCAA tournament, when Magic and Bird played in the final.
DC: Yeah.
LT: They were the two best players, like, it was star power and all these other things. Now you just don't have any star power, so you're relying on all these other things.
DC: Yeah, I'll say this and then we, we can go to the close. Yep. I didn't watch, uh, the play in, uh, for the 16C versus 16C. I think it was Virginia, Virginia against Colorado State.
LT: That was one of the games.
DC: Yeah. One of the play in games. And, but what I heard was that there were 59 minutes of real time between, uh, uh, buckets for Virginia. Now, Virginia won a national championship in 2019 brand nerds. That's five years ago, 59 real minutes between buckets. Between a field goal, you got that kind of thing happening.
That's not a TV show, Larry. That's not a TV show. So, Hey, more power to the, uh, to the women, more power.
LT: More power to the women, that's what we say. They've, they've got the up and coming. They've got the up and coming brands, brand nerds. That's what we're really saying. So keep your eye out on that. And, uh, with that, we're gonna, we're gonna hit the show.
Close, uh, brand nerds. Thanks so much. For listening to this what's poppin edition of Brands Beats and Bites. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman, Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom DiOro. That is he, and if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share it for those on Apple Podcasts.
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