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Thoughts and ideas on education, culture, psychology, social science and more from our academics, students, alumni and wider community to create lasting and evolving change. Podcasts brought to you by UCL Institute of Education (IOE), the world's leading centre for education and social science research, courses and teaching, and a faculty of University College London (UCL).
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You're listening to IOE Insights, the UCL Institute of Education podcast at University College London.
Voiceover 2:This is Academia et al. The podcast for anyone and everyone. Figuring out life in academia.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:This is Academia et al, the podcast for early career academics. I am Zeinab El-Khateeb, I'm a lecturer and teacher education at the IOE, UCL's Faculty of Education and Society. In this series of episodes, we are going to hear stories about academic journeys, achievements and legacy, which we hope will inspire you to embark on your own adventure as an early career researcher. Today, I am delighted to welcome Professor Lynn Ang to the studio here with us. She is a Professor of Early Childhood Education and the IOE Pro Director and Vice Dean Research.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:Her role involves leadership of the IOE's overall research strategy and all research related areas of her research, and her research interests including the interdisciplinary field of early childhood education and international development. Lynn, welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining us today. First, it would be very helpful if you could provide the audience with an overview of your academic journey and progression to the present day.
Lynn Ang:Thank you very much. I'm really pleased to be here and to share with you my experiences and my academic journey. So, I've been an academic and a researcher for over twenty five years now. I've had a very long career and a very illustrious career as a researcher and academic. But I had a kind of non traditional start to academia, because I started my career as a preschool teacher.
Lynn Ang:I was trained as a kindergarten teacher, a primary school teacher, and I was working in the classroom, which I was very pleased about, and I really enjoyed my time with the young children. And I suppose my academic journey started when I decided to do a Masters. And I did my Master's at the University of Lancaster. This is going back many years now, so that was in the 1990s. And I decided that I really wanted to learn more about research.
Lynn Ang:That was something that really interested me. So I did a Master's in Literary Studies, actually in the University of Lancaster. And then I was very fortunate that I managed to obtain and was awarded a scholarship to do a doctorate at the University of Stirling in Scotland. So I actually lived in Scotland for many years, about seven years, or over seven years, and really enjoyed my time there. And I was very fortunate because I didn't think I was going to get a scholarship then, and it was one of those scholarships that was very generous and supportive, where I was able to embark on my PhD studies and had stipends to cover my fees, but also I was given a teaching fellowship at the same time.
Lynn Ang:So that gave me a really good start, I think, in academia, where I was able to do my doctorate as well as learn about teaching and working in higher education. So, you know, I feel very fortunate to have had that opportunity. So I did four years of my PhD at the University of Stirling, where I very much enjoyed myself, and that was really how my academic journey started, where I was able to learn from many other academics what it was like teaching in higher education. I taught across the levels, including access programmes, and that means courses to help students and candidates before they even get into undergraduate programmes. So I taught from access programmes to undergraduate, and also to Master's programmes.
Lynn Ang:So that really gave me a really good insight into what it means to be an academic.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:Of course, and I guess when you work with the children, I mean, as they say, if you can teach three years old, you can teach any age group. Okay, wonderful. The next question leading to what you've just talked about, which professional accomplishment or initiative do you consider the most significant to date?
Lynn Ang:I suppose the most significant, I have to say, is obtaining my doctorate. As everyone knows, even I'm backing on a doctorate, it requires full time commitment. It is a highly demanding journey to do doctoral studies, but it is also very rewarding and fulfilling. And I can absolutely say I have been through the whole ups and downs of a doctoral journey. It was not easy, as I am sure everyone who has embarked on a doctoral journey will know.
Lynn Ang:It takes a lot of commitment, perseverance, but also confidence, and really a lot of time and personal commitment to do a doctoral study. Once you embark on it, of course, you would not want to then stop. You want to keep going, and make sure that you complete it. So I would say that is one of my most significant achievements, but also the most, I think, transformative. Because once I obtained my doctorate, I felt like a whole new world has opened for me.
Lynn Ang:I was able to do more interesting research, I was able to apply for jobs and work in academia, and I had a whole network of peers and colleagues that I could work with and collaborate with. So I think getting that doctoral journey from the time I decided to embark on my doctoral studies and then to complete it. That was, I think, my most significant achievement. So I would highly recommend anyone who is interested in academia and research to just be very brave and to embark on that doctoral journey, because it is not just the degree that you obtain, it is the confidence that you then have in knowing that you have earned a degree of really highly specialised work, be a specialist in what you are researching in. So that has really been a pivotal moment in my career.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:Wonderful. This is really inspiring even for me as well. I'm a staff member and I'm also a doctoral student. I have two hats at the IOE. I completely agree with you, Elaine.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:It is a journey that pulls you in, you know. You've got to just to continue this journey, isn't it, till you get there. It needs a lot of time and it needs a lot of effort and commitment above all. Thank you so much. It's really insightful for myself and also other doctoral students at the IOE.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:Were there any individual who inspired your intellectual development? And if so, did your research focus align with their interests?
Lynn Ang:Absolutely, I wouldn't say there's one particular individual, because I've been so fortunate to work with so many brilliant individuals, so it would be difficult for me to name one person. I would say there were many, many individuals. I was very fortunate to have worked with some brilliant academics, and also mentors I have had along the way, who really encouraged me, supported me through that journey all the way from my doctoral studies to when I became an established academic. So of course, in my doctoral years, I had my supervisor, my supervisory team, but also I would say the students around me. I remember at the University of Stirling, we had a whole group of students, a cohort of around five or six of us, who were all from different disciplines, should say, and all from different backgrounds who came together and did our doctoral studies together, and we really encouraged each other.
Lynn Ang:So I took my motivation and inspiration from my friends around me who were on that similar journey, and we encouraged each other to make sure that we all completed our doctoral studies. We are all now in very different walks of life, but I think that was instrumental. So I would say, when you do embark on your doctoral studies, it is really important that you have a group, a network of people around you, not just your academic supervisors, but also your friends and your fellow colleagues that you work with on that journey. And then when I became an academic, of course, there were academics and colleagues who really supported me in my career. Just to give one example, the late Professor Peter Martin, who actually is in a different discipline, I have to give him credit because he was a professor, and of course I say the late because unfortunately he is no longer with us, but I still remember he was the person that was instrumental in supporting me getting my first grant.
Lynn Ang:So this was many years ago now, and then, when we submitted the grant, there wasn't an online portal. We still had to do it via a mail postage, you know. And I wanted to go for my first British Academy grant, and as a junior researcher, was very uncertain, reserved about my project, but also how I was going to construct it in a way that would speak to the brief of the funders. And I still remember speaking to Professor Peter Martin about it, and what he did was, was looking back, absolutely generous of him, was to give me his whole folder of his successful grant. All the handwritten notes that he had written, all the papers that he had put together, and he literally gave me that folder and said, Lynn, you take this, and you go away and have a look at how I have written it, what I have done, and you use it as a model, and do as you think would be helpful for you to use it as much as you want it, so that it is helpful for you to construct your own grant.
Lynn Ang:Now, of course, it was a very different topic and a very different funder, but that really helped me to look at how a successful grant looks like, and that actually then really gave me the insights and the knowledge to construct a really strong submission. And that was how I got one of my first grants from the British Academy. So I was really pleased, and I hope that colleagues who are at the early start of their career in academia will find those mentors, and you will find those brilliant people who will help you along your journey. I would say never be afraid to ask for help or for support if you need that. So I think that was really important for me.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:Absolutely. What academic advice do you have for early career researchers? This includes staff members and also students to achieve success, which you have already touched on earlier, but if you would like to explain it further and to give advice, please.
Lynn Ang:Yes, I would say my main advice would be to keep your options open. I think academia now is very different from when I first started. I would say I was perhaps fairly focused in knowing that once I obtained my doctoral degree, would go into academia, and I would then become a lecturer, and a senior lecturer, and so on and so forth. And I am very pleased that I have done that, but now, I think in the current landscape, there are many, many different roles out there for students who are embarking on this research journey. You could work with an NGO, you could work in the international field, you could work in the policy arena, you could also work in research institutes and research organisations, not just in a university or higher education.
Lynn Ang:So I would say, keep your options open, talk to people from different sectors, and I think that is really important, not just in higher education and in the university, but in different sectors, to think about what options you have, and what different roles are out there. I think it is very important to think about diverse research careers. When you obtain the doctorate, or even when you are doing your Master's, there are options out there that you could use your degree and really apply the knowledge that you have learnt to different careers, not necessarily in academia. But of course, if you are focused on an academic career, then I would advise, yes, absolutely, use the networks that you have in the university, meet with different people, talk to not just academics, but also professional services staff, to really get an understanding of what it means to be part of that research administration. What is involved, for instance, in submitting a grant?
Lynn Ang:What is involved in terms of building those networks of collaborators that you would need to support you in putting together your first grant? So I would say, think widely, keep your options open, and just be confident what you are and what you do. I think that is really important. I would also add, that to think about academia and working in higher education as a very rounded career, in a sense that it is not just all about research, and of course I say this as a vice dean research, but also research is just one component of your career, in say, in a university. You also have teaching, which I find absolutely rewarding.
Lynn Ang:I would say teaching remains one of my greatest pleasures. One of the achievements that I am really pleased about and proud about is being the Principal Fellow of the Higher Education Academy. For me, that was really important. I still remember when I submitted an application for that, not many people understood why I was working so hard to try and gain that qualification or that award. Because they say you are in research, and you are very much embedded in leading research, you don't necessarily need this award.
Lynn Ang:But for me, it was about not just being a good researcher, but being a good teacher and being a good academic, means being able to translate your ideas and your knowledge, to be able to impart them to different people, and to work with students across the level. So across my career, I have worked with students across the levels, as I said previously, for access programmes to undergraduate, to Masters, to doctoral students. And that is something I am very pleased about, and I find it absolutely immensely rewarding, which is why I was so pleased when I was awarded the Principal Fellowship. So I would say teaching is another important component of an academic's life. I have worked across from three to four years all the way to mature students, and I find it immensely rewarding.
Lynn Ang:I really hope that students out there will be able to go on and do better and better things, and be able to achieve their ambition in whatever they want to do.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:Excellent, that's really inspiring. Thank you so much for joining today, It has been very informative. Please follow the link in the show notes to find out more about Professor Elaine Long's work, as well as discover more podcasts from the IOE. And if you like what you've heard today, please give the IOE podcast a five star rating on Apple or Spotify. This will help us reach more listeners who may also enjoy the podcast here.
Zeinab El-Khateeb:I'm Zeinab. Thank you for listening and have a good day.
Voiceover 3:Academia et al is brought to you by the IOE's Early Career Network and IOE Marketing
Voiceover 3:and
Voiceover 3:Communications. The podcast is presented by Zeinab El-Khateeb. The theme music was composed by Ronnie Zhu, editing by Teresa Baker of UCL Educational Media, and Jason Ilagan is the executive producer of the IOE podcast.
Voiceover 1:Thanks for listening. Search IOE Insights for more podcasts from the IOE.