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Mark Rogers is the Market President of Big Brothers Big Sisters of West Central Texas. He shares how healthy and courageous mentors purposefully create discomfort to promote their mentee's growth.
Show Notes
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WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
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SHOW NOTES
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others you can mentor.
Speaker 2:Hey. How's everyone doing today? This is Zach Garza with the You Can Mentor podcast. I'm hanging out with my good friend, Stefan Murray.
Speaker 3:What up?
Speaker 2:And with our guest today, Mark Rogers from Big Brothers Big Sisters, Abilene
Speaker 4:or Lone Star? West Central Texas.
Speaker 2:West Central Texas.
Speaker 3:Sounds really official.
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 4:was under the impression that that Steph Curry was your co host.
Speaker 2:No. It's,
Speaker 4:it's Steph Murray?
Speaker 2:Steph Murray and Steph Curry that runs.
Speaker 4:Steph Murray
Speaker 3:and Steph Curry.
Speaker 4:I've never
Speaker 2:put those 2 together.
Speaker 4:You lied to me.
Speaker 3:My my 3 pointer is pretty shady.
Speaker 4:So
Speaker 2:Man. Actually, it's Steven, but sometimes I kinda feel French, so I call him Steph.
Speaker 4:You know who I wish was my mentor? I wish Luca Doncic was my mentor. Oh,
Speaker 2:man. He is tearing it up right now.
Speaker 4:I love Luca.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, Mark, it is great to have you here. And, I'm gonna pass it off to Steven so he can introduce you and kinda ask questions for the audience to get to know you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Mark Rogers is the market president of Big Brothers Big Sisters in West Central Texas. That sounds so official. Mark, we'd we'd love to hear more about Abilene just because no one's ever been there before.
Speaker 4:One time, Zach and I drove home together. No. You followed me home from Abilene, and we got lost. Remember that?
Speaker 2:I do remember that, man. It is easy to get lost out there.
Speaker 4:You took a wrong turn at, like, 121 and 183 or something. I had to pull over. Like Wow. This is before this is before map phones. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, map phones. Yeah. Also, just to give the audience kinda some of our background, I've known Mark since I was a wee child. We grew up together. So if it seems like we're being a little bit too,
Speaker 4:informal,
Speaker 2:that's because we are.
Speaker 3:So you guys both went to ACU.
Speaker 2:Woo. No cats. Yeah.
Speaker 4:That's right. Zach, I've lived here for 20 years this year.
Speaker 2:You're so old.
Speaker 4:It was crazy. I moved I moved out here in 99 Man. And I've never left.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Mark, could you tell us more about BBBS in Abilene and just paint a picture for our listeners of what you're doing over there?
Speaker 4:So Big Brothers Big Sisters is a nationwide organization. It started in in New York over a 100 years ago, and it was a it's actually a judge in New York started it because he was seeing all these these young men that were coming into his court that he was sending off to prison for little petty things, and he's like and and there was a you know, he's obviously seeing a a trend with all these kids. They don't have, like, a a father figure, mentor figure in their lives. And and, so that's that's kinda how it started. And then over the next, you know, the the next 100 years, you know, this process has, kind of evolved and gotten more scientific as far as the how we match and and screen volunteers and all that.
Speaker 4:So I am part of West Eagle, Texas is part of a bigger Big Big Brothers Big Sisters called Lone Star which covers Dallas, Fort Worth, and Houston. And actually, well, I won't get into all that. So so our mission is to build and support 1 on 1 relationships to ignite the biggest possible futures for youth. And so we have, right now, we got about 380 active matches in Callahan, Taylor, and Erath County, which is down in Stephenville. Always looking for for we got a 130 kids in the wait list.
Speaker 4:Most of them are boys. So we're, like, as you I don't know you've watched the video. I was on the local news, this week trying to get men to to step up and and volunteer. We ask our volunteers for a minimum commitment of 12 months and 2 to 4 hours a month. That's it.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Always looking for ways to make it even easier for people to sign up like we're starting a a a program in the in the spring called beyond school walls, and we've got it worked out where we're gonna go we get we got it a bus that is going from AISD, Abilene Invisible District, to one of the local magnet schools. It's gonna pick up Littles, and it's gonna take them to First Financial Bank downtown, and we're gonna provide lunch. It's like, okay. You wanna be a mentor?
Speaker 4:You you think it's important? Okay. Show up for work 7 times in the spring semester, and, like, we will literally bring the little to you. Yes. We're trying to just find all the ways that we can, that we can, make an impact on these kids.
Speaker 4:And I could sit here and tell story after story about, kids in our program and why it's such, it's so important. It's almost I I said it's on the news the other day. I said it's a it's almost a horrific need right now. It's like we've gotten so disconnected. Like, whereas a 100 years ago, we didn't need a mentoring agency.
Speaker 4:It was just like, mentoring was like basic cable. You just, you know, your aunts and uncles and your you knew your neighbors and the small think of small towns, everybody, oh, small town, you know, like, your neighbors, like, tell you, your parents what you're doing before. You know, it's like there's this accountability. Well, now that we're so disconnected, it's almost it's just like nutrition. Right?
Speaker 4:It's like a 100 years ago, you didn't have to, like, use willpower to avoid, like, Oreos because it didn't exist. You know? It's like like, what was inherently just kind of naturally around you was that was healthy. And, like, you were forced to to move in healthy ways and do all these things that was kind of your natural environment. And now you have to be super intentional about nutrition or you'll just, you know, turn into you'll be on, like, the my my 1,000 pound life and there's a crane, like, picking up out of your skin.
Speaker 4:You know? So so if you're not super intentional and and it's the same exact thing with community now. It's like if you're not incredibly intentional about community, it's just all kind of falling apart, and there's we're building robots now. What the heck? So, like, what you guys are doing is the same kind of thing.
Speaker 4:It's an incredibly important thing. It's like this intentionality, to to build community and to get kids, you know, somebody that's older than them, that cares about them, and is consistent in their life, to keep them from doing some dumb stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For sure. And, I mean, like, our our main question is if a if a boy grows up in a home where there's no father figure present or there's if a girl grows up in a home where there's no positive role model present, who is going to teach that kid how to be a positive and productive member of society? Right? Because
Speaker 4:Yeah. Kids are gonna gravitate to the loudest voice in the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Right? And if the loudest voice in the room is the kid a year older than down the street who's, you know, lighting frogs on fire and throwing them into people's backyards in a poop bag or something, you know, like like you used to do. What? That's you're like, that's not even a thing. Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's it's like yeah. Kids need that voice and, actually, you you and Ginny like stories. Here's a here's a here's one that I love I love to tell. I have a little brother. His name is Jacob.
Speaker 4:We are coming Monday, this coming Monday. So we're recording this on Thursday, 12th? Yeah, 12th. So this coming Monday, 16th, is our 3 year, like, match anniversary. So I'm taking him out.
Speaker 4:We're gonna go out with, like, a steak dinner. Right? And so he was in 3rd grade when we met. Now he's in 6th grade, and it's we we hang out every week, and he's part of the family now. He's just an awesome kid, but we love him to death.
Speaker 4:And, I guess it was last year. He was, I pick him up from school, like, a lot of times. Like, that's what we do. I could just go get him at, like, 3:30. I just go pick him up, and I've got access to our our church, which has, like, ping pong table and pool table and foosball.
Speaker 4:So we go up there and hang out or he's we go, you know, he comes to my house and helps me fix my fence, you know, things like that. And so one of the first things I would ask him last year when he was in 5th grade is he had this he doesn't care. He just wants to hang out. You know? Right.
Speaker 4:And so, we go hang out. We do our thing. I do I drop him off. And later that night, his mom texts me and says, Jacob just came to me crying with this note. And this note and I could I look it up and read it to you.
Speaker 4:It's just like the cutest note. There's all these, like, misspellings and, you know, it's just like the cutest, like, little kid note. But it was like but he hadn't gotten his folder signed and just the easy way out when I asked him was just to say no. Right? And then he and then he went on about his day.
Speaker 4:But, like, having me in in the picture, he's sitting in his room going, they're gonna find out. Mom my mom is gonna find out. She's gonna tell Mark. And then what is he gonna think? Like, I've got to I gotta confront this.
Speaker 4:I gotta fix this. So he writes me this note. So I called him and was like, we kinda talked through it. I was like, that I cried that you lied. That was a bad thing.
Speaker 4:But I'm proud of you for, like, stepping up and, like, and and kind of kinda running into some friction. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like, taking the the hard the hard path and coming up, and I was like, whatever your mom does is discipline, whatever she's grounding you for, whatever, like, you're just gonna accept it. You're not gonna complain. You're not gonna argue. You're gonna say, yes, ma'am, whatever it is. And and what I love about that story is, like, I want kids, like, today, when they're adults, to have developed those patterns of behavior.
Speaker 4:Right? Like, they're they're not gonna just always take the easy road. They're they're held accountable, and they're they're, you know, the way that and the way that they cope with things right now, it's like they're when they're kids and adolescents, like, how you cope with stuff and how you learn to cope with stuff in that that period is how you're gonna cope with stuff for the rest of your life. Right? And if you don't have that community around you, what, you know, drugs, alcohols, you know, whatever it is, however you learn how to cope in this in that those formative years is how you're gonna cope when you're an adult in the same way.
Speaker 4:Like, how you deal with adversity and how you learn to deal with adversity when you're in adolescence and when you're a kid is how you're gonna deal with adversity when you're an adult. You know, it's it's like any other habit behavior, like your nutrition, your movement pattern, like all that stuff. It's like how you do it now and when you're a kid is how you're gonna do it as an adult. You can change, but it's just a lot harder. It's like learning lang language.
Speaker 4:Right? It's like it's a lot harder to learn a language when you're 40 than it is when you're, you know, a a kid.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And, I mean, particularly kids from hard places are the least equipped to face difficulty, and yet you have the most difficulty.
Speaker 2:You know, just that story right there, like, Mark, can you just kinda go deeper into that and share with us just why it's important to honestly take take that step of being uncomfortable and confronting him on that. Right? Because, like, as a mentor, it's so easy. Just, hey. How's how's school today?
Speaker 2:Did, you guys enjoy watching the Dallas Mavericks game? Hey. Let's go eat pizza. But sometimes it's so uncomfortable to step into those difficult situations, but that's actually what our kids need the most.
Speaker 4:Right. Yeah. And it and this all kinda goes back to I was talking to Steven about, like, ways that humans were designed to eat, sleep, move, and manage stress. Right? It's like, let's look at this human design.
Speaker 4:Humans are not designed for constant. Right? We are not designed just to be inside at 72 degrees and have the water perfectly temperature and never be exposed to any sort of variation in our environment. Right? We are we are designed to have peaks and valleys.
Speaker 4:Like, there's all these positive things that happen, like, cold therapy. Like, there's all these positive things happening in these, you know, hot treatment that you I'm not I'm just talking about temperature. Right? So we're, like, our stress response is designed to peak and then come back to normal, you know. And and it's like, we we have to, you know, it's like, suffering produces perseverance, perseverance produces character.
Speaker 4:Right? Like, that's that's a that's like a biblical thing for a reason. Like, and so that that that is true through all domains of life. I mean, just think about, you know, like, I think about my grandparents, you know, they were my grandfathers who were in World War 2 and, like, those guys were just, like, the greatest guys ever had gone through some stuff. You know, it's friction.
Speaker 4:It's kinda like the way that I like to look at that. It's like they had gone through some friction way more than I have. Right? And so when I when I was doing all those long distance endurance races and doing all that, like, I still like, I started Taekwondo with my daughters in the summer and a mountain bike. And I'm I'm always looking for ways, to to kind of create that discomfort because if you don't, you're it's, like, it's you're gonna atrophy.
Speaker 4:Like, and not just your body, like, not just your biomechanics, but, like, your your mind is gonna atrophy. Like, we're outsourcing our brains, like, no like, we talk about maps, like, nobody knows what direction north is, like, nobody knows their friend's birthdays, nobody knows, like, we we we outsource all of that and we're our brains are atrophying, our minds are atrophying, like, our souls are not, being, like, tested. And and and so, like, you know, I've got all these different things. Like, I do, like, a 48 hour fast once a week, and there's some nutritional, like, health benefits to that. But, like, the main reason I do that is to, like, just kind of create some some uncomfortable, you know, just, like, some discomfort, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4:Like, I take I've taken cold showers for, like, 10 years. You know, it's like because every morning, I get in the shower and I put my hand on the cold water thing and I'm like, okay. Here we go. Right? And that little moment when you break through and, like, here we go.
Speaker 4:Cold water. Oh my gosh. Right? Like, that that's what we're missing in our lives. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Is that is that and and they're it's just like with you know, it's like the great example is, like, go to the gym. Like, what do you do in the gym? You are not growing. You are not getting stronger in the gym, right, when you are at the gym. You are getting weaker.
Speaker 4:You are, like, you are, like, tearing yourself down so that your body you have, like, this this nervous system response and this and this adaptation from that friction to get stronger. Right? And if you don't have that, it's just I mean, it's just like with everything else. Like, you think about, like, if you just have your arm in a cast for 6 months, what's gonna happen to your arm? That's what's happening to all of our, like, minds and souls.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Man, Mark, there's so much there. Dude, you just first of
Speaker 3:all, I gotta do some push ups right now.
Speaker 2:Like, you just spoke so much truth. And, like, I think what's so cool about being a mentor and what's so cool about and what's so powerful is as mentors, we get to kinda create these little, we'll call them sufferings. Right? These uncomfortable moments. Like, you confronting your mentee on him not getting his folder signed, that's a little tiny suffering.
Speaker 2:That's a little tiny area of discomfort that is going to teach him how to deal with the issue, and it's going to lead him into the ability to persevere. And when he learns that, that's going to develop his character. Right? Because this world is going to give him sufferings. This world is going to make it hard on him.
Speaker 2:But us, as mentors, we get to, on purpose, in a safe environment with intentionality, create these little tiny training grounds. Right? And man, that is just if a kid isn't trained in how to suffer well, how to deal with the discomfort in a healthy way, then he is going to respond out of his flesh, and it's probably not gonna be good.
Speaker 4:Right. And life isn't about avoiding obstacles. Right? Like that like, think about I'm gonna have a a happy life. It doesn't mean nothing bad has happened to me.
Speaker 4:That stuff is gonna happen to you, period. End of story. That's the deal. Right? Right.
Speaker 4:And so there's a great book by Ryan Holiday called The Obstacle is the Way, and it it kind of, like, the whole conclusion of the book there is and it's like, I hate that we have, like, all these these, like, metrics and, like, data telling us this stuff. It's like yeah. Like, because shouldn't we just know this? Like like, the a happy life is, like, when you when you are confronted by an obstacle that you figure out a way to overcome it. And and, like, in the suffering or the discomfort, without that, there isn't the joy, there isn't the happiness, there isn't that sense of, you know, I I accomplished something.
Speaker 4:I think about, you know, like, what's what's a a cooler, like, physical accomplishment? Running like a 100 like, jogging a 100 meters or these guys to do these ultra marathons. They're like a 100 miles in 24 hours. Right? Like, what like, think about, like, the level of suffering, like, associated with each of those things and then the level of, like, accomplishment and, like like, that the 100 mile race will change you as a person and teach you things.
Speaker 4:Right? So and those are obviously 2 very extreme examples, but, like, the same thing happens, like like, mentally too. It's like if you're not stretching yourself, if you're not learning new stuff, if you're not putting yourself in uncomfortable situations on purpose, like, you know, it's just you know, I I wouldn't talk to the Abilene High football team, before in their games. I do their the the radio call for the for the Eagle football team. And Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so, like, one of the things I was telling them, like, I kinda had this conversation with them about how struggling you need to find ways to struggle. It's like, right now, a high school football player, for instance, like, has that built in. Right? They're getting up early. They are in pain.
Speaker 4:They are going through that stuff. It's like, well, when you whenever you're done playing football and that day will come, you you gotta you gotta continue to find ways to struggle and find ways to to encounter friction so that you will always continue growing as a person. Almost done with the David Goggins book, Can't Hurt Me. He's that Navy Seal who turned into he had to go through BUDS week, like, three times because he he got out of the remote when he, you know, the first time broke his kneecap the second time. And so he goes through BUDS week 3 hell week, like, three times, and then turns into this, like, ultra runner and and, like, went and ran a 100 mile race in San Diego on 3 days notice with no training.
Speaker 4:I mean, just like and there's so many good principles on this topic in that book about, like, you have to overcome stuff on your own. You have to, be uncomfortable. And and you mentioned, like, kinda having those conversations with a mentee. One thing that I love, or I I tell tell my mentors, the people that are signing up, it's, like, initially, like, right when you meet a kid, you don't have the right to to coach them or to or to instruct them. So you shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 4:You shouldn't be wearing those those jeans that had their their holes in them or whatever, you know, whatever an old man says to a kid. You shouldn't be listening to that that Drake music.
Speaker 2:Hey. Hey. Why don't you get off your that their cellular device and pick up a book?
Speaker 4:Right. Yeah. Get off the lawn. So so talking to somebody about wanting a mentor and they're like, yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 4:I I I don't know. I wouldn't know what to say. Initially, it's just you being present. It's just you being there. It's that consistency.
Speaker 4:Right? That's the first step. Consistency, aka love. You are showing that that that there is love there, that there you care about them. Consistency.
Speaker 4:The second step there is, like, modeling the behavior. Right? So it's like parents that are eating pizza, like, telling their kids to eat the broccoli. Right? That's not gonna work.
Speaker 4:And then once you're consistent and once you are modeling that right behavior, then you earn that right to coach or instruct those kids. And so that's what I tell people initially. It's like, look, you don't have to have, like, this earth shattering meaning of life conversation the day you meet. Right? You've gotta earn that right.
Speaker 4:But then once you do have that right, then you've gotta step into those arenas and and and, like, encounter those things as they approach. And then I just kinda say, well, I'll deal with that later.
Speaker 3:I'm interested to hear more about, just like the the uncomfortability that a mentor creates. I I think most mentors when they're starting the relationship, they get into this mode of, like, I need this kid to like me. I need this kid to like me. And any thought of creating attention, is is a a negative associate. We have a negative association with that.
Speaker 3:And so I don't know when that transition happens. You kinda mentioned that we need to build trust and then get into a place where we're modeling those things. But but what what would you say to a mentor who is, like, yeah, not creating that uncomfortability? What's a first step?
Speaker 4:You know, I I think the fact that it was just like with you, like, you know, I I I've got 3 kids, 2 daughters, 10 and 8. My son is 6. They know that when I get on to them or if they're doing something they shouldn't be doing and I kinda, you know, you kinda have those moments of of instruction or whatever it is and it's not it's it's not fun, right, or, like, getting in trouble or whatever it is, they know that, like, I'm gonna be here tomorrow. You know? Like, I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And and so it's like once you once the kid knows that, once, like, hey. Listen. Like, you gotta do better in school, like and then and then you show up again, like and and they kind of start to figure out that, okay. This person is is constant, is consistent, is not going anywhere.
Speaker 4:I think, you know, that that's really, like I would say you can you can have those conversations, but but also in the same breath, like, you're going, alright, what time are we meeting next week? Right? Like, plan plan the meeting next week. Plan the next, outing, like, right after that conversation So they know that it's not like that, you know and and also, you know, you talk about the affirmation that that mentors need mentees need this, you know, we all need that. Right?
Speaker 4:Like, they're they're thinking the same thing. They're thinking, you know, the match introductions as we call them are are can you kinda seem kinda nervous? You know, the big shows up is kinda nervous. I hope this this kid likes me. And the littlest thing is the same thing, like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:Like, I've got all this, like I've always people in my life that that that aren't there anymore. Like, is this gonna be another person that just abandons me? You know, that kind of thing. And and so there's it it goes both ways. And so I think just really, like, strengthening the that pathway of I am not going anywhere is that that's all you need.
Speaker 4:And then from there, you can, you know, engage in healthy conflict, you know, just like you can with any other relationship in your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Another thing I was gonna say, mentors also can easily take on the idea that their job is to remove the obstacles from a kid's life. And so if he figures out he doesn't have a bed, it's like, oh, okay. Well, I'm gonna get him a bed. And that that helping this kid fulfill his potential is removing all the obstacles.
Speaker 3:But what you're saying is, no. The obstacles lead to him fulfilling his potential. Like
Speaker 4:Exactly. Yeah. So I think of, like, a I think of a a 100 I already mentioned a 100 meter dash. Here we go again. Like, I'm on a track, 100 meter dash in front of me.
Speaker 4:Like, I grew up, 2 parents in the in my house, you know, middle class. Like, my dad not not only didn't ever miss a game that I played in, he hardly ever missed a practice. He owned a bakery, as Zach knows. So he come to all of my football practices in high school, like, he still I started I have to mention Taekwondo. He comes and watches me sometimes at Taekwondo just to, you know, I'm almost 40 and he, like, still coming to, like, watch me do my stuff.
Speaker 4:Right? That's my experience. So, like, I'm looking ahead at at the track and there's nothing in my way, you know. And so I see kids in our program that have, you know, 800 hurdles stacked an inch apart in their path, right, and it's not about that yeah, you said it it's not about the the mentor coming in and, like, moving all of the the the hurdles out of the way. That would be the to me, that would be the worst thing that you could do.
Speaker 4:It's saying, okay. How are we gonna figure out how to get over these hurdles? Okay. Let's go over here. Let's do some box jumps and let's do let's let's run and and get where we get our bodies ready to jump over these hurdles.
Speaker 4:Right? And so when we get to the end, we've accomplished something and we know how to cope with adversity, we know how to handle stress, like, there's all these positive things and just removing the obstacles. I mean, look look at look around, like, look at, my my wife teaches at ACU and she has for 10 years, and so she has, like, juniors and seniors in college whose parents will call her to, like, argue about a grade. And it's like, what? You know?
Speaker 4:It's like, what? No. Like, I don't understand. Like, that's the there's a lot of that happening now with kids where, like, parents are just kind of intervening and, like, I don't want anything bad to happen to you. Like, they fall off their bike and you go over there and you coddle them and you're, like, okay, we're done with the bikes.
Speaker 4:Let's go get ice cream. Right? No. Get up. Get up and get back on the bike and let's go.
Speaker 4:You know? Like, let's figure it out. Like, there's there's not enough of that right now. And, like, that's what I love about this the taekwondo place that we're at, like, the parents are not allowed. Like, whenever we do belt testing, the kids have to go to the instructor and say, can I have my testing sheet?
Speaker 4:Will you sign my testing sheet? Like, they won't let the parents go get the testing sheet for the kid and hand it to the thing. Here's my kid's testing sheet. Like like, reinforcing those behaviors and you can do it, like, a little bit at a time on, like, the little on the small stuff. Didn't have to be, like, you fell off the roof, you know, putting up Christmas lights that your your parents, like, made you, made you do and then it's like, yeah, your leg's fine.
Speaker 4:It's like, you know, compound fracture, you know, and, like, tape it up. You know, it's like it's like the little stuff, like, you know, taking your dishes to the sink, things like that, you know, just the little things.
Speaker 2:Man, Mark, there's there's so much there, and I'm what you're saying is, as mentors, let us help train and equip our mentees to deal with the obstacles and to overcome the obstacles instead of removing the obstacles.
Speaker 4:Right. Right.
Speaker 2:Because that is training them on really how to fish. Right? How to Yeah.
Speaker 4:Right. Yeah. I mean, it's and this is all we we know all this stuff. Right? We know, like, teach a man to, you know, catch a fish for a man and you fed him for a day, teach a man to fish and, you know, it's like we we've we've heard that forever.
Speaker 4:But some somewhere along the line, like, we've got, like, a generation of kids that are, like, coming up. And now and and it's like the 2 extremes. Right? It's like we've got the kids who we're talking about who don't have anyone helping them, like, giving them the fish or teaching them to fish. And then you've got the other extreme where, like, you know, we're just giving them fish.
Speaker 4:Right? Yeah. It's like we need we need more of, like, the that that middle balance where we're all kind of, learning how to do things for one another, and and there's this community where we're I don't know if you you all read any of the Brene Brown books. My my wife is obsessed with Brene Brown, and so I've read some of those books. And she talks about choosing courage over comfort, and it's the same it's the same principle.
Speaker 4:Right? It's it's it's easier to not hold the door for somebody. It's easier to leave the trash, laying on the ground that you pass that you oh, I didn't I didn't put that there. It's not my trash. Just walk by.
Speaker 4:Like, that's the comfortable thing. Right? Like, 72 degrees, sitting down all day, like, that's the comfort. Courage is that uncomfortable part of that. Like, courage is when you see someone that's sitting by themself, like, it's much easier to not go over there and talk to that person.
Speaker 4:Right? It's it's you gotta, like, kinda suck it up. It's kinda like when you turn the cold water on, it's that kinda feeling like, I gotta go over here and talk to this person. Here we go. Right?
Speaker 4:And but you're gonna be rewarded by doing those things. Like, I so so teaching kids, pick up that trash when you see it. Hold the door for somebody. Like, teach them to to look for ways to improve the lives of people that they come into contact with because that's not always the the easiest thing. Right?
Speaker 4:That's that's the that's the comfortable thing. It's just to, like, I don't care what's going on around me. I'm not I'm not gonna help this person with, you know, whatever it is trying to get now. If Ted Bundy comes up to you and ask for help, run the other direction. Right?
Speaker 4:But so there's a balance there. That's why I'm like, how about that documentary? I'm like, alright, girls. My daughters. I'm like, if anyone in a cast ever asked you to help them with something.
Speaker 4:Right?
Speaker 2:K. So, Mark, so let's let's get practical. Let's get practical.
Speaker 3:Oh. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So tell me some common areas of uncomfortability, if that's a word. What are some common areas that you see that mentors have the opportunity to help a kid get uncomfortable to, to grow in perseverance and to grow in character? And then how does a mentor help walk their mentee through that?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. So, like, you can go to the extreme. So here's the extreme answer. So there's the guy that created the Spartan races, you know, that are all over the place, Joe Dacena.
Speaker 4:He's been on the Simplehuman podcast a couple of times, and he, like, he wakes his kids up every morning like 5 AM and they do these crazy, like, Atlas Stone workouts and, like, he carries around like a 50 pound kettlebell everywhere he goes, like, just to, like, create discomfort. Right? Because when you when you do that, when you when you finally get to where you're going, you put the kettlebell down and you're like you're like, oh, now I don't have this kettlebell. Right? So it's like that's the extreme version.
Speaker 4:Like you can like, okay. Alright, kids. We're going on a 20 mile hike instead of going to school. Let's go. Here are your rucksacks, you know, like they have, like, 80 pound dumbbells in them or something.
Speaker 4:Right? So, but then the other extreme there is, like, what we talked about, like, moving the the obstacles out of the way. And so it's just, you know, it is it's just finding those those little moments. And and I love the the saying or the little phrase, how you do anything is how you do everything. Right?
Speaker 4:So, like, kinda if you kinda think about that so, like, that really is a is a testament to, like, the small things. Right? So teaching kids, like, when you're with a kid, like and you're with a kid for an hour a week, right, like, you've you've you may not have a whole lot of of time, you know, compared to, like, of your own kids, but there you gotta find ways. Like, you know, take them and and do something like toys for tots shopping and, like or do a service project or go find ways to to to to help other people. Right?
Speaker 4:And, like, that so that you're really killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. You're teaching them about community and why community is important. Right? But you're also that that's also part of that courage over comfort, you know, finding finding friction in the everyday life. Right?
Speaker 4:And so, and and it's just, you know, coaching them up on, okay, you know, what are you struggling in school? You know, those are the easiest things, you know. It's like especially kids that are in school, what they're working on, how they're talking to their teachers, how they treat their peers. Like, I always say that when my kids get out of the car. I say, treat your friends like you wanna be a trade head as they're, like, running off, you know, just like if they're, like, driving that into their brains so that it becomes a habit.
Speaker 4:Right? It's like like, you know, brushing your teeth or, like, you know, like tying your shoes isn't something that you have to, like, okay. Hang on. I gotta put the left lace over the right lace and I gotta cross thing. And remember, like, you had to do that when you were learning how to tie your shoes.
Speaker 4:Remember? It's like you it took you, like, 9 years with kids. It's like, just let me do it. It's making you forever. Right?
Speaker 4:But, eventually, now you can, like, tie your shoes, like, while you're, like, you know, doing something else. You're thinking about something else. And so getting healthy behaviors or these kinds of behaviors that are, like, good for for all of humankind to be, like, just like the into the lizard brain, like, we're the same, where where your heartbeat and you're blinking and, like, all tying your shoes is is located, that's kind of the goal. It's like, I was with I was with my little brother. We were riding our bikes around STU.
Speaker 4:And there's this hill Zach, I don't know if you've been to the new stadium. There's, like, this big hill up that you can go up now. They, like, they, like, made this hill on the, like, north side of the stadium. And so we're riding our bikes up this hill and riding down, and we did that, like, 3 or 4 times because it's really fun to ride down the hill. Right?
Speaker 4:Well, we got, like, after we were done, I was, like, alright. Here's a teachable moment. I was, like, it's fun to ride down the hill. Right? Like, yeah.
Speaker 4:It was. It's like, it's just no work. You're just enjoying the the wind in your face and going fast. Right? That's great.
Speaker 4:Yeah. What what do we have to do every time to to be able to enjoy that? Right? Yeah. We had to work our butts off to get up to the top of the hill.
Speaker 4:Right? And and I think now, like, when we talk about, like, parents that are, like, you know, like, doing stuff for their kids and all that, too many of us, especially in in our culture, are in are are enjoying the downhill without without having to work. Right? Like, we're with credit cards and, you know, these diet plans that you don't have to you know, it's like, oh, take this sprinkle this on your food and lose a £1,000 or whatever it is. Like and that is a design.
Speaker 4:Like, that the design of that is the struggle and then the kind of the enjoyment, right, or the the the pleasure, the joy, whatever it is. And if you take out half of the equation, that's actually more than half because it takes a lot longer to go right up the hill than it does to go down the hill. Right? Yeah. And that's, like, when I was doing, like, long distance endurance stuff, like, that's where I always hated.
Speaker 4:Like, it's, like, I was bigger I was a bigger, endurance athlete, you know, like, I was £190, you know, these these guys out there that are 140 just flying up these hills. And it would always take me so much longer to go up the Stuart Hills. And then it's fun to go down the hills, but it's over too quick, you know, compared to how long it took to get up there. But that's, like, that's the whole point, you know. And so just, like, teaching the teaching kids in every little thing that they do that you don't get to have the enjoyment, you don't get to, you know, whatever whether it's finances, whether it's, like like, working out, whatever it is, without the back end or the front end of that equation, which is the struggle and the fight.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Which I I think for kids from a hard places, the entertainment, the enjoyment, the instant gratification, those kind of things can become so much more of a coping mechanism than for all of us. They're a coping mechanism for everybody. Every every everybody wants something to be easy, but how much more so a kid who's in a difficult situation, how that can create that dependence upon a coping mechanism that doesn't help them grow strength and through adversity and and all of those things.
Speaker 4:Well, that's why I mean, that's why I like drugs and alcohol. It's such a it's such a a problem. Right? It's like, you know, you don't have a a support system around you, a coping a healthy coping mechanism. When you're a kid, in high school, whatever, you you have, you know, a few beers and all of a sudden, you've coped.
Speaker 4:Now you're chasing that for the rest of your life, you know. And so that's the like, why, you know, it's so important to to develop those behaviors, the healthy behaviors, the healthy ways to cope with stuff and to to overcome obstacles and all that in these formative years. Otherwise, like, we're gonna just look around like all the just look at all the eviction and all the suicides. What the heck? What's the suicides?
Speaker 4:You know, it's it's crazy. Like, it's just the you know, that's another thing when I talk about, like, that you don't have to be, like, at risk to need a mentor. Right? It's like every kid nowadays is facing anxiety. Like, there was some study I was reading, some study that was saying, like, kids are, like, reporting the same, like, levels of anxiety today that, like, like, psychiatric patients adult psychiatric patients were reporting, like, in, like, the fifties sixties.
Speaker 4:It's kind of a scary thought. Right? It's like with social media, it's like now our brains are designed to see, like, 30 or 40 people in our in our entire life. Right? Like, this kind of ancestral mind kinda thing.
Speaker 4:Well, now and and and and a brain that really wasn't ever even designed to see its own face. Right? Think about that. Like, mirrors mirrors, like I mean, unless you're looking down in, like, a pool or like a or like a body of water or something, like, this is the only time you would ever, like, even know what you look like. Take that so, like, take that brain
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 4:And and implant it into a society where you take a selfie, pick the the best one out of the 200 that you've chosen, post it online, and then your whole self worth is is tied into the comments and how many likes you get. That is a short circuit, if I've ever that that is the most short circuit of all the short circuits.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's almost like you were observing what I was doing on Saturday night, taking all of those selfies and trying to put them on
Speaker 4:trying
Speaker 2:to put them on Facebook to see how many likes I could get. Let's say a mentor hears this podcast and they're like, oh my gosh. This is amazing. I'm gonna help create obstacles. This is the best thing ever.
Speaker 2:What are the basic rules that a mentor needs to know as he starts to begin to enter into this creating discomfort to help their mentee out?
Speaker 4:Well, man, I and that's that's a good question. I think I I I think I'm just gonna repeat myself, Talking about the consistency, and slash love is the first thing. Like, you gotta be you gotta be there. You gotta be present. You gotta model, and then you've got to coach.
Speaker 4:Like, you can't you can't just do the first two. Right? You can't earn the trust, and then when you have an opportunity, like, just let it pass you by. Like, you've got to to decide to kind of step into the ring when those when those opportunities present themselves, but you can't step into the ring before you've you've earned that trust. And so here's here's another story, another really good friend of mine, who has a little who lives with his great great grandmother who's, like, 90, no siblings, parents out of the picture, grandparent you know, it's like he's lived with different family members.
Speaker 4:He's he moves all the time. He has no consistency in his life. He's been in my my 5th grade daughter's class since, like, they were in kindergarten, so I've known him for a long time, got a match with a really good friend of mine, and they're, like, a perfect match. And they've been matched for, like, 6 months. And I was over at his house, my friend's house, and his little brother called him about it was, like, before school started and he was there.
Speaker 4:They were trying to figure out what they were gonna do, like, because because my buddy, like, takes him up for, like, meet the teacher. It's like that kind of a relationship, you know. And, at the end of the call, I heard my friend say, alright, love you too, bud, and hung up. And I kinda looked over at him, like, wait, it hadn't been matched that long, you know? And so we kinda I kinda looked over at him and he was like, yeah.
Speaker 4:Anytime we talk, anytime he leaves me a voicemail, anytime we are together and we depart, he tells me I love you. And if you know this kid, like, he's not like a real lovey dovey kid. He's an athlete. You know, he's he's 11 years old and he's, like, he's super energetic. You know, you wouldn't think of him as, like, a some a kid that would say that.
Speaker 4:And we so we kinda laughed about it. But I told Jen, my wife, about that, and and she kinda got tears in her eyes thinking about, like, the gravity of that. Right? Like, why does he do that? Why does he say that?
Speaker 4:Because he doesn't have anyone else to say that to. You know? And and it's like so so my buddy is, like, earning has earned that right because he's because he shows up and because he's consistent. And and that's really the the main thing. Like, you don't have to you know, I I know it's it can be scary when you think about you hear all these crazy stories, and, like, I've got I've got a board member who was matched with his little back in the eighties when his little was 6.
Speaker 4:And now his little is, like, in his forties and he's in his sixties, and they still they go to car shows together and they still hang out all the time. And, like, a new mentor, somebody that's thinking about signing up, hears that, might go, oh my gosh. Like, that's that's a huge commitment. I don't know if I'm ready for that. Like, no.
Speaker 4:That's not that's not what this is about. This is about raising your hand and and just saying, yeah. Let's let's do this And going through 4 4 Runner, you know, if you're in Abilene or or I mean, have the Big Brothers Beatrice any any sort of mentoring organization. Right? Rising tide raises all ships kinda thing.
Speaker 4:Just just deciding that you're gonna do it and you're gonna be consistent. And I really you know, the other thing is, like, telling people, like, if you can't commit to that 12 months and the 2 to 4 hours a month, don't sign up. Like, if you like, we got an air force base out here. If you're gonna be deployed in 6 months for 3 years or whatever, like, don't sign up. Like, that that's we we don't want more, like, abandonment, you know, in the equation.
Speaker 4:And so I think, you know, those are the easiest things. Just deciding you're gonna do it, being consistent, modeling good behavior, and then and then deciding to coach and instruct, when those opportunities present themselves.
Speaker 2:Tell me, some things that you see mentors doing that they need to stop doing.
Speaker 4:Parents, mentors, anybody, like like, thinking that the best thing for your mentee or your child or whatever it is is for them to feel no pain ever and nothing bad ever happened to them, and it sucks. I mean, as a dad, I don't want anything bad to happen to my daughters, you know. It's like they're in Tae kwon do, like, I wanna I wanna, like, send them off to college with black belts, like, with 3rd or 4th degree black belts. Right? Like, I I want them to, like, be able to take care of themselves.
Speaker 4:Like, I want to keep them from harm and, like, I I you know, you lay awake at night thinking about bad things happening to your kids or you have friends who something bad happens to their kid. Right? It's horrible. Right? But that's that's the deal.
Speaker 4:Right? So I think, like, mentors, parents, whatever, if you are, an an influential person in a in a younger person's life, trying to keep them out of harm's way is the number one thing I think people are doing that is that is decaying, our society.
Speaker 2:Well, if you guys were tuning in to find out what is decaying society, you heard it here first, folks.
Speaker 4:First. Society is decaying. We're all moving to the woods.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. This is so good, Mark. I really appreciate your time. Can you give us more information if anyone's listening and wants to get involved with big brothers, Big Sisters and your even your new initiative? I think it's called Defender.
Speaker 4:Yeah. The Defenders. That's a campaign that we have. I don't know if y'all have a CASA, a court appointed special advocate, program in your area. So we partnered up with CASA because they're in the same boat we are.
Speaker 4:Like, they need men. Like, they've got a lot little boys that that don't have a a male, mentor. So we got some funding from the local United Way to do this, like, male recruitment campaign. And so that's, you know, we have these axe throwing events, and it's, like, invite only. And so, so yeah.
Speaker 4:So that's that's one thing. So and we're calling it the defenders kinda like we're defending the potential of kids. Like, that's kind of the the the language that we're using. But you can go to so big brothers, big sisters, there's 3 b's and an s. So bbbstx, like the state, dotorg.bbbstx.org.
Speaker 4:And that's, like, if you're listening to Dallas, Fort Worth, Abilene, Stephenville, all around Houston, there are big brothers. There's big brothers in San Antonio, Austin, Lubbock, Amarillo, Midland, Odessa. I mean, it's they're they're all those are different agencies that I'm a part of, but yeah. You know, just and and 4 Runner, whatever. Like, find a mentoring, and it's and really the 1 on 1 is is is it's critical.
Speaker 4:Like, we're the only one I'm on mentoring agency in Abilene, Stephenville. Like, there's other mentoring stuff, you know, boys and girls clubs, things like that. I mean, you know, it's great. You know, every every person added to the equation is helping, but what we do is that 1 on 1 relationship, which is critical.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, Mark. Thanks, buddy. It's awesome to get to spend some time with you and hear your heart on mentoring. And, I look forward to to seeing you soon, my bud. Cool.
Speaker 4:Alright. Yeah. Anytime you need me to come back on, just let me know. This is this is great.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Marcus. You are the man, Mark.
Speaker 4:Alright. See you guys. See
Speaker 2:you, buddy.
Speaker 3:Although it was great getting to hear from Mark Rogers from Big Brothers Big Sisters. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it. Check our show notes to connect with Big Brothers Big Sisters in Abilene, Texas or anywhere across the country. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts that helps us get the word out. And if there's nothing you picked up from today's episode, let it be this, you can mentor.