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Lead Tennessee Radio features conversations with the leaders who are moving Tennessee forward. Topics include rural development, broadband, technology, legislation, policy and more. The podcast is produced by the Tennessee Broadband Association.
Intro:
The following program is brought to you by the Tennessee
Broadband Association.
Lead Tennessee Radio, conversations with the leaders moving our
state forward.
We look at the issues shaping Tennessee's future: rural
development, public policy, broadband,
healthcare, and other topics impacting our communities.
Andy Johns:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Lead Tennessee Radio.
I'm your guest host, Andy Johns, pinch hitting for Carrie and
Trevor.
And joined on this episode by Scott Goodale, who is the vice
president of fiber network design and implementation at JSI.
Scott, thanks so much for joining me.
Scott Goodale:
Thank you for having me.
Andy Johns:
We are here at the Tennessee Broadband Association, Kentucky
Rural Broadband Association Joint Conference here in Franklin,
Tennessee. And Scott is one of the great speakers on the agenda
who is kind of leading us through ideas
and concepts this week.
Scott, your topic is on "The Art of Mastering Project
Management." And I know that's something everybody can stand to
benefit a little bit from managing their projects a little bit
better.
Tell us a little bit about what the session is about.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. Thank you.
The biggest component of our session was how do we be more
efficient, and in all approaches, how do we add value?
The clients or the ISPs are receiving an immense amount of
money.
They've also saved up their money over the years.
And now is the opportunity for them to build out, increase their
subscribers, use it as matching funds or any other
funding source they have to continue to expand broadband and hit
the, I guess, the keywords of
"broadband for everyone."
Andy Johns:
One of the things that surprised me that I've never heard a
project management person say before is, is you're encouraging
folks to kind of, at times a little bit get away from Gantt
charts.
I thought project management folks loved Gantt charts!
And I know we may have folks who are driving right now, so we're
going to try to keep it lively and, you know, not too far into
it. We don't want to put anybody to sleep.
But you know getting away from Gantt charts is not something
I've heard many project managers say that they're in favor of.
Tell me a little bit more.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. So Gantt charts are great for the very beginning.
It lists out what tasks you have.
It gets into ownership, but at the same time you get wrapped up
in them, and an individual can get twisted
around. We're behind on one line item and ahead on another, and
it's going to come into conflict.
So we've kind of tossed those out.
We understand that they do provide value, but in our projects,
because of the pace we're moving and the resources that
we're allocating, we don't have somebody dedicated.
And a lot of our ISPs don't either, just to updating a Gantt
chart and keeping it current.
So we've moved on to more of a goals and milestones based
approach, where we all know our job.
We all have our areas of expertise, and we understand what tasks
need to be completed to move the the ball forward.
So we've set up a little more strategic and definitive approach
of we have 7 to
10 milestones depending on what the scope of the project is.
And that allows us to know what yard line we're on.
If we want to use a football analogy, every first down, that's
where we're at.
Additionally, we don't get twisted around a serial approach.
We are more of a parallel approach.
We're going to attack from all angles.
Andy Johns:
All right, unpack that for us a little bit, a serial approach.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. So in a lot of cases, people say, "Okay, let's get a
preliminary design, and then we're going to go get our permit
applications. And then we'll wait till the permits are submitted
before we move into detailed design, before we go into
contracts." And it's more of you put one foot in front of the
other, and you have to complete a task before you start the next
task. Under our approach, we kind of divide and conquer.
And so therefore while designs going on, we're filing for
permits, we're starting to plan and get contracts in place,
notifying bidders of potential projects that are coming up so
that we are already two steps ahead.
And you'll hear me say that a lot.
The old Bart Simpson quote was always thinking two steps ahead.
He was always frustrated by Homer, who was as not smart as he
was.
Andy Johns:
That's a kind way to put it. Sure.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. He always was two steps ahead of Bart, and that's what I
tell my team.
You need to be two steps ahead and know what's coming.
We are the experts, or your engineering firm is the experts, and
therefore, they should be able to forecast what's going to be the
next roadblock stepping stone or stage gate.
Andy Johns:
And that's the thing that's come up a lot talking to vendors and
ISPs here at the conference this week is,
you know, most cases, this is a once in a generation, once in a
lifetime, time period right now where folks can
can build and expand broadband networks to connect folks here in
Tennessee.
Most ISPs are going to get a shot at this once.
Folks like yourself have done it enough times, helped other
folks with it where, like you said, you're helping, see those
roadblocks that are that are coming up.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. And a lot of these things are fiscal responsibility, as
well as efficiency.
As you pointed out, once in a generation, now, this funding
source has finite durations.
As we know, there's Enhanced ACAM that's going to expire at the
end of 2028.
We've still got ARPA or CPF that's October of 2026.
So they have these funds that are being released that have a
terminal.
This is the last date you can write a check, right.
And so having an efficient approach to project management so
that you can complete it on time or ahead of the
deadlines is very important to all of our clients.
Andy Johns:
The three main elements, and you talked about it earlier, but
with any project management, you're basically looking at cost,
scope and time.
And all of those are very connected, especially when you've got
as much going on as broadband providers are here in Tennessee.
Right now when you're talking to folks, what are you hearing?
Which one of those is stressing folks out the most?
And how do they interplay when you're looking at cost, scope and
time?
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. And that's a great question because good, fast, cheap has
always been the
three-legged stool that you have there.
We use scope, schedule and budget as a comparison there, the
critical constraints.
Current day and age, it's not the cheap that has people driven.
It's the time and the quality.
So we have to meet specifications because this money that we're
putting in has to create an asset that lasts for a generation.
Secondly, fast, we have a limited duration of getting it
constructed so that we get reimbursement.
And then the cheap portion is, of course, we're looking for all
fiscal responsibility.
We want to make sure the clients, either it's matching or
they're 100% grant funds, go as far as possible, serve as many
clients, or serve as many subscribers as possible.
So that's probably though on the latter side of where things
are.
The awarding agencies, whether it be the state or the federal
government or even general funds, understand that with inflation
and with constraints for material, we ran into some roadblocks
with that in the last two years, starting to come
back into some normal ranges.
But the material delivery lead times are still going to be a
concern as we finish out this year and go
into next year ahead of BEAD.
Andy Johns:
Yeah, and we talked about that a little bit on some of the other
episodes, some of the other speakers have brought that up is
that, you know, by the time, you know, just looking at what one
of the speakers yesterday said, I forget if it was the Tennessee
Broadband Office or the Kentucky Broadband Office.
They've got 40 ISPs pre-approved to do these projects, and you
start multiplying that out.
Maybe only half of them get approved final or whatever it's
going to be, we don't know.
But that's just one state.
So you're looking at that many projects going on here.
And then next door in Kentucky and Georgia, all the other states
are going to be doing that.
There's going to be real scarcity when it comes to labor,
possibly with supply chain.
Hopefully that's a little better than it was a couple of years
ago.
But there are so many factors that go into completing a project
on time, and so many of them are out of your control and out of
the ISP's control.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. And out of our control is –
Andy Johns:
Maybe that's not the way that you would phrase it, but –
Scott Goodale:
No, no, that's I mean, we have certain levels of influence.
What we have to do is try to predict the future.
Andy Johns:
No big deal, just predicting the future.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. The ISPs, as you pointed out, most of them will get one
opportunity at this, and it's a huge opportunity for
them. Some of these ISPs have been owned by the same three
generations for, you know,
60-80 years.
Andy Johns:
Right.
Scott Goodale:
They started with copper, and now they've moved on to fiber.
One thing we are seeing, though, is they are willing to accept
help.
They may not have the internal workforce to do it, and they
realize we've got to reach out.
And that's what companies like JSI are here for.
We can give you some expertise.
We can give guidance.
And it's an a la carte.
If you just need help with project management, we have tools
that will help.
If you need help with design or inspection, contract
administration is another one that people really stumble over
because of the legal aspects of it.
So, as you were saying, these individuals, the awardees are
opening up to
an outside agency or firm to really let them be guided.
And that's all we're asking.
Andy Johns:
Yeah. And you know, when you've got this much going on right now
asking for help, there's certainly nothing, nothing wrong with
that.
Scott Goodale:
No, sir.
Andy Johns:
Kind of, and you've mentioned it a couple of times, but getting
into accountability, because that's a big part of it.
Both you guys being accountable to the ISPs, to your clients.
But then, you know, we talked yesterday about some of the
requirements with the BABA, you know, Build America, Buy
American. There's a lot built into the BEAD process specifically
to promote that accountability.
So you guys are working not only to be accountable to your
members or to your clients, but they are
working to be accountable to their end customers and the
taxpayers.
There's a lot of accountability built in, but I'm sure it's
something that everybody still has to work towards and make an
intentional effort there.
Scott Goodale:
Absolutely. And accountability is something that I really
emphasize on my team.
We emphasize when we kick off the meetings or kick off the
projects.
Both accountability between the engineering firm and the awardee
and reciprocated.
But as you pointed out, there is BABA requirements.
There's labor law requirements.
There's taxpayer obligations.
So all the reporting that goes in with it, it's a frequent word
you'll hear on our conversations, especially
during the initial setup of we're going to be holding the client
accountable to allow us and communicate to us
to get them where they need to be.
Another thing you'll hear me say is help them get out of their
own way.
Because they have always done things at a pace –
Andy Johns:
In a nice way.
Scott Goodale:
In a nice way. And sometimes it's just as blunt as that is.
Let us help you get out of your way because you've been doing
things this way for two generations.
You've asked us for our help because we need to speed that
process up.
And that's really where we are respectfully candid with them,
that the approaches
of the last two generations when it comes to telecom build out
won't get you where you need to be in the timeline you're working
with.
Andy Johns:
Interesting. Okay. So you're seeing it.
I mean, we're accelerated to that point.
That's an interesting, interesting thought nobody had brought up
so far is that what's gotten you here won't necessarily take you
to the next spot, just based on on the accelerated timeline for
these.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. And if you have a small project, if you're a, you know, a
350 subscriber ISP.
And you get a $2 million loan that you need, or a grant, that
you need to spend over five years.
Yeah, you're going to be able to pull that off.
Andy Johns:
Yeah. Piece of cake.
Scott Goodale:
Yeah, but we're looking at projects where Enhanced ACAM or even
some ReConnect projects are
400-500 miles that they have to have built out by the end of
2028 and get environmental permitting and get clearance and
everything. So those are the ones that really catch you off
guard, because there are so many hurdles you have to clear
before you can even start putting duct in the ground.
Andy Johns:
Definitely. Well, as we're wrapping up here, last question I
normally ask folks, what advice do you have for folks that are
looking to either improve the way?
Obviously working with JSI, I imagine would be one of one of the
pieces of advice.
But aside from that, what's some advice or a takeaway that you
would have for folks that are looking to get better with their
project management? Or for some folks, like you said, kind of
taking a big step into the size and scale of some of these
projects, something they've never, never done before.
What advice do you have for those folks?
Scott Goodale:
Yeah. So of course, reaching out to JSI, and one thing I want to
throw out with JSI is we're a full service, but we're
also here to help. We want to assist the ISPs, the awardees, get
more fiber out to the masses.
If you only need help with contracts, we can help with just
that.
Or you just need help in guiding you through the environmental
clearance process.
Those are services that we offer like an a la carte select what
you need, and use our expertise to get where they need to go.
The other things are, like we mentioned or talked about a little
previously was, you know, Harvard Business Review
has some great little, you know, less than 25-50 page books that
you can pick up some good tips
on how to improve the efficiency of your team.
One thing that we talk about is effective meetings.
You know how to deal with difficult people.
Internal training really will help speed up that growth process.
It is a little bit costly.
You know, you still have to take somebody's time away from doing
their daily work, but, you know, devoting some time and resources
to building your team is immeasurable.
Andy Johns:
And that's so important and interesting that you touched on it,
because there's been several sessions where that internal
communication and internal training, making sure your team is
ready.
It seems like that's something that's been brought up a lot.
I know this, I said last question was last question, but you
brought up a really good point there that that's been brought up
a lot. I feel like more so than in the past at this conference,
that getting your team ready.
You know, not just the technical training, but also the
understanding of of what's what's going on, what's at stake and
how they can be more efficient and more on board.
It seems to be a big piece that everybody's talking about this
week to make folks more effective.
Scott Goodale:
Absolutely. And it's not just about when you're spending your own
money, but as we went back to the BEAD or ReConnect or any of
the grant funds, there is a regulatory obligation that comes
with that and making sure your team is aware, knowledgeable and
understands what is at stake is very important.
And that's part of that.
You know, let's get our team ready before they have to be ready.
And so small little training classes, go out there, look on RUS,
look on USDA or NTIA.
They have little seminars, webinars that you can attend.
I think JSI has webinars as well that might be like 20 or 30
minutes just to give you the background of what the
obligations are, what your regulatory compliance requirements
are.
Even down to what is prevailing wages mean?
What is Davis-Bacon mean?
And what do you have to do to be compliant?
So great little 20 minute sessions like that will make huge
differences in the knowledge base of your team.
Andy Johns:
Perfect. Thank you for bringing that up.
Scott Goodale:
Thank you sir.
Andy Johns:
He is Scott Goodale, vice president of fiber network design and
implementation at JSI.
Scott, thanks so much for joining us.
Scott Goodale:
Thank you very much for having me.
Andy Johns:
And thank you for listening.
I'm your host, your guest host, Andy Johns with Pioneer Utility
Resources.
And thank you for listening to this episode of Lead Tennessee
Radio.