Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
AIC_Ep20
===
Liz Herl: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone.
Tim Caldwell: Welcome Liz. Thanks for having me back. We right back into it. Yes, we did. How, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. Yeah.
Liz Herl: To catch everyone else up on what we're doing. Mm-hmm. We're talking about the struggle of accountability and responsibility in young adults today.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. Huge topic. Mm-hmm. It's huge topic. It's probably one of the biggest complaints that we hear about millennials and [00:01:00] Gen X is that they're so hard to work with. Right. But we want to talk about. Kind of diving into this topic about accountability and responsibility and for viewers that are watching, we just wanna let you know that as Liz and I get better at this, we're learning how to kind of script our things out.
So we keep our notes fresh, that the information's flowing through. Yep. So you'll see us constantly looking down, but what we're doing is just, we've talked about this several times, so we want to have the hot points written down.
Liz Herl: That would only be if you're watching us. That's only if you're watching us.
If your word just in your ears. Yeah. Your right is right.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. That's
Liz Herl: right. That's right.
Tim Caldwell: What do you got?
Liz Herl: So, obviously this isn't targeting any generation. This is talk tar. This isn't targeting anyone. I don't want it to feel like we're looking at a generation specifically. We're not beating up on, we're talking about we're up.
Tim Caldwell: That's right.
Liz Herl: In general where our viewpoint is on accounts accountability and responsibility. Mm-hmm. And it does seem like, nowadays we're having a struggle in identifying what that looks like. Yeah. And how to utilize that. How to take up those big pieces at work, at school in our everyday life, in our [00:02:00] relationships, and how to kind of hold ourselves into a position of knowing what accountability and responsibility is.
This definitely goes into generations. What I mean by generations, 'cause I said we weren't, tech is looking at what we are created from.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: What did we see our parents do? What did we see our grandparents do? So when I talk about generational, right, like how did a resiliency and perseverance look from their perspective?
Tim Caldwell: Did we have any examples of what we're gonna be talking about? Right. Hardworking. Correct. Yeah. 'cause
Liz Herl: we have to learn how to maneuver and navigate within that, because their generation is different from the current generation.
Tim Caldwell: Were they even exposed to any of these stories of the sacrifice, right? Mm-hmm.
That, that, that had to go through it times where there wasn't much on the stove. Mm-hmm. You had to be, you had to be pretty uh, inventive. Resourceful, resourceful. Yeah.
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: What we're kind of looking at here is [00:03:00] if we're gonna cast blame, where do we target all that? Do, do we look at culture? Do we look at societal expectations? Maybe even, and most definitely technology. Mm-hmm. Right? Especially these phones that we carry that have become just a full on addiction of just constant notifications and dinging and pinging and surely they.
Surely they pay a part.
Liz Herl: Right? Well, versus casting blame versus understandable. Where it come, it comes from,
Tim Caldwell: right, right. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Because this isn't, again, in the form of attacking, it's the understanding of, I wonder how this evolved into what it is today. Right. In our understanding they're in. So what is the effect of not having that, maybe those lessons being taught what accountability and responsibility are from, I would say a full healthy perspective.
Because there are people that said, well, I know I did teach accountability and responsibility. Sure enough, from their experience or perspective, that could very much so be the case in broader [00:04:00] spectrum of how does this cause a problem in our everyday lives when what one person's perspective of accountability is differs from the other.
Tim Caldwell: Right? Sure.
Liz Herl: Sure. Right. how we have to look at those, how those. They have heart effects, right?
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely. And, you know, I wanna look at how society has its foot pressure on us. We recognize that we think that young people are just, they're frequently just overwhelmed by what goes on in their lives.
Not only are they having to deal with hormonal changes and growing up with maybe broken families or broken relationships inside, outside of school but they constantly have to deal with the peer pressure of all that goes on around them and their friends. And not just peer pressures, but what their friends do and what's trending versus what you do.
Mm-hmm. And being a bit ostracized by all that stuff. Being left out
Liz Herl: right. Nobody likes that feeling [00:05:00] of
Tim Caldwell: No, no
Liz Herl: feeling like they're. Non-included.
Tim Caldwell: Ghosted?
Liz Herl: No, no, no. Fear of being left out is what do they call it?
Yolo, you only live once or something like that. Oh. Anyhow. There is that mentality of, of feeling like, I don't wanna be f
Tim Caldwell: low,
Liz Herl: that what is fear left, missing out, whatever it is. Yeah. I don't know the acronyms, but that is definitely something that people have. It's just not something I have. So, yeah.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: What we're not doing, and I see this in my practice, and I see this in individuals and and in my own personal life, is we're not really developing a space to sit in and reflect.
Tim Caldwell: Right. On, we'll talk about that. Yeah. On,
Liz Herl: on ourselves. Mm-hmm. Like, it's constant, like you're talking about the dinging and the pinging and the, the next thing.
It's like we're constantly in this motion of movement all the time if we were to have the ability to. Sit and reflect within ourselves. I think that would really afford us some solitude and we have to consider what we're afraid of. Well, then we're gonna go into, I don't know if I'm [00:06:00] gonna be as good as, or I probably can't do this
as well as, so self-doubt starts breeding, right. Self-doubt turns
Tim Caldwell: into this fear of failure. Right? Right. The fear of failing every, and by the way, this isn't unique to being young. Mm-hmm. Right? This is anybody who's trying to do something new mm-hmm. And be, good at it a sport a profession.
But what we're trying to do is give some guidance or tips or make people more aware of the simple fact that this fear of failing, can be crippling. How can we assure people that taking responsibility and accountability absolutely are critical parts to accomplishing those things that need to be done.
You can't succeed at what you're doing unless you take some responsibility and accountability for what you're doing. If you're gonna be the boss, you're gonna take it. All
Liz Herl: right. So, one of the things I wanna touch on there is that when we're talking about self-doubt we have to understand what a hardship is.
So when you, we go into [00:07:00] what is difficult, what is challenging, and that's a little bit skewed nowadays of what is something I'm really enduring and I'm trying to manage. Yeah. And I'm trying to figure out the best way to resolve something. Yeah. What do I have to own of this and what is somebody else's parts?
Mm-hmm. And that critical way of, of, of separating a difficulty. Such as, as we were talking earlier, a difficulty isn't the fact that there is your favorite coffee shop is in open all time,
Tim Caldwell: right?
Liz Herl: So like, my whole day is ruined. I went to go in and Yes. And they had to close down because the barista didn't come into work or something.
I don't know.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And now my whole day is ruined and so I'm not gonna be productive and this isn't gonna happen. Oh yeah. It's like, alright, so you might wanna chill out there a little bit. Like that is not a hardship. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: Well these minor things lead to major things and if the more fragile they are in their own mental awareness and stability.
I didn't get my parking spot today. I'm, I'm here, but I didn't get my parking spot. I didn't get my coffee, I didn't get my Danish. They were out of my [00:08:00] favorite. And this turns into the excuse mobile all day. Mm-hmm. Having a bad day. Well, they're gonna hear about it too, right? Your coworkers hear about it.
Your work, your everybody's work. Okay. That's a, that's enough of that. What we need to do is start asking those, asking these questions that how do we reverse this? How can I start to instill in people this idea that just because I don't know how to, let's say, I'm not gonna own it.
Mm-hmm. That way I don't feel, I, I'm not gonna fail at it, right? Those are the things I wanna look at. And those are the things that when people bring this up where they're doing kind of half-assed work or they're not doing very professional work, or it's substandard, we terminologies become.
Popular of soft quitting is they're giving mediocre work and expect high wages. We need to get people to understand that these things can't exist. We all have to do our level best at what we do. And you'll hear me say this again and again, even in this discussion, that you can [00:09:00] be a boss without being the boss.
Mm-hmm. Do the very best you can.
Liz Herl: So when we're, how we're being impacted by this, I think when we're talking about the fear of failure mm-hmm. Because it is massive, right? Mm-hmm. Like we, everyone has it. There's no one that's not going to be avoidant. Well, I mean, you could be avoidant, but the reality is we want to feel like we're thriving in some way.
Yes. We're being successful. Yes. And when, however we perceive that we are not, that's gonna really play a major role in our impact on our mental health. Mm-hmm. And our ability to persevere, and be resilient. One of the challenges around hardships I wanted to reflect on really briefly is that.
And this may not be favorable for some people to hear, but I will be honest. And where are I would say our belief in trying to encourage, encourage one another kind of have it maybe have gotten skewed a little bit was when we went back or we, we created a participation award of when you are contributing to something.
Yeah. And it's like, but you did try so [00:10:00] good job for participating then the hard facts.
Tim Caldwell: But again, this is in the spirit of fairness.
Liz Herl: Right. But the hard facts are there are winners and there are people that have lost That's right. Which you're losers. That's right. I'm not saying that you're saying that you're a loser, but if you didn't, weren't successful, then you have to reestablish and renegotiate and try again.
That's right. So you weren't successful the first time. But I would say get into a mentality of that I feel like I. I did my best and I, look, here's my ribbon. That shows I did my best. No, you didn't win. And that's really the, the hard facts. So I need you to kind of gain an awareness of like, okay, so next time I'm gonna strategize and I'm gonna do this and, and this, we're looking sports related here a little bit.
Yeah, sure. Because I really wanna make sure like I, that we win. Mm-hmm. That we win that, that I'm successful at this. Yeah. And I really tried hard at this. Yeah. Versus like, well we all, we all went out for ice cream. Everybody got a ribbon. And so their, their status quo, right. Yeah. And being able to [00:11:00] just know that I think is, is really important how that can set us up for that lack of.
Thriving and perseverance and resiliency. You have to know that you fail
Tim Caldwell: how to handle mm-hmm. Disappointment and defeat. Mm-hmm. We don't teach that enough. Here's the example. We, as we talked about participation or it's, I've coached in the past and in team, team coaching, you'll have parents say, why don't you put my son in here?
He's the best. Okay. But we're a team. It's not team. Your boy team. My boy team. And you'll, you'll find coaches'. Kids play a lot and we, they get called on it too. You, you're the coaches' kid. But the example I want to make for people who do participation ribbons, when a race is run and we have a whole bunch of boys and girls doing separate races as they should.
When you have somebody finish first and finish last, but everybody gets a ribbon. Mm-hmm. All the same ribbon, you do an injustice [00:12:00] not only to. The participants, but to the audience. Mm-hmm. The, in the participants, the person who got the first, who really did win, he doesn't get any special recognition because everybody won.
Mm-hmm. The person who came in last and got a ribbon, he's now being falsely elevated to, to being a winner. Mm-hmm. You're not, and to the audience, you're now creating this two tier, we're all the same thing. Mm-hmm. No, that's not life. Mm-hmm. That's not life. We are different male, female experienced unexperienced.
Mm-hmm. We are different. Sure. And you can say we're all the same, but when it comes down to doing the job, we're not the same. And that's an injustice. Mm-hmm. And we have to correct that.
Liz Herl: Well, and this isn't you know, I'm not beating up the participation award. No, but it idea because it's emotionally thinking.
So what we have come to understand is what it does to an individual when, they feel that sense of, of failure. Mm-hmm. Like it goes into, I'm not good enough. I don't, [00:13:00] I'm not really good at this, but, and teaching that you know what, you tried really hard and that's really what matters.
Tim Caldwell: Good job.
Liz Herl: And that's what we have now. You have to look at what you wanna do differently next time. Like, there's the validation of your effort. It did matter. You weren't successful. But your effort did matter.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: And that's what you, children need that reassurance of understanding their effort mattered.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Versus what we have statistically known is that, you know, there's this berating, you know, you could have been more, you were so useless out there on the field, you could have done more. Well that's not very healthy at all. So versus any child feeling like that, let's give them all our participation so they don't feel less than, and this isn't about, we have to suffer a little Yeah.
In our shortcomings. Yeah. So under know how. To move forward in a more successful way. So for, again, I don't sound redundant here, but if we're not persevering into a healthier understanding of what we have to own when we didn't do something right.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Right. Like I should have made that move and I didn't.
So [00:14:00] that's on me that, that's my bad. Right.
Tim Caldwell: And next time when I see it, I recognize, I recognize I been here before and I change mm-hmm. Yes. Versus the insanity. I do the same thing over and over again, and I expect different results. That's, that's not gonna happen. Right. And as I've meant, I say this all the time, you've never met anybody in your entire life who's fallen to the top of the mountain.
Mm-hmm. Unless you're Paris Hilton or a Kardashian who had famous fathers mm-hmm. Or hotels or whatever the heck. Those people got to be famous, boom, almost overnight. However, they pay great sacrifice in strength and fortitude.
And they pay a price that we probably can't comprehend. And I don't think that's worth, but it's also, not only do I think that's a worthwhile sacrifice, if it's, you wanna call it a sacrifice, I don't think that's even fair to expect people to believe. You're not gonna be the people who go on and play professional [00:15:00] sports, NBA major league, soccer, all those, they're rare.
They're super rare. In a celebrity world, you can be pretty famous just by putting something out, but your success will always be compared to somebody else. And in life, especially in education and growing up, as in young people, we have to, you're gonna learn far more from your. Failures and you ever win from your successes.
Sure. Your, your failures will give you a resume of what not to do. Mm-hmm. Thomas Edison had 10,000 light bulbs until he found one, but in one of his famous quotes is, I found 10,000 ways not to do this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And in history, people will say, well, look, he invol in, in invented the light bulb. Babe Ruth famous for being a home run hitter. You know, how many people, how many times he struck out. Right.
Liz Herl: Well, and I mean, there, there's endless stories like that. I mean Yeah, sure. Michael Jordans for all the shots he missed, and I mean, Scotty Pippen, everyone. Right. There's, you could go endlessly into that and, and that's not even talking about other careers, but so society's [00:16:00] geo success, tell me, I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
Tim Caldwell: That's an important point and, society's idea that seems to be promoted. From all levels is that we need to be independent, we need to be self-made. Nobody's self-made. But this fact that we have to be our own boss and our own home and our own business owner and all stuff, that's great.
But that promise is a very hard one to make and to expect you to be able to do that, is rare because we know most people don't own their own businesses. And the people who have tried, they failed I don't know what the percentage, but it's very high that they fail within five years of starting even fewer in three years, people just fold up shop and it's because they come up against hard times and either they're able to stop, evaluate, and. Regroup. Mm-hmm. And begin to take some type of [00:17:00] incremental steps or changes, or recognizing this doesn't work and this does, they may not understand that to do that work.
You're poking the bear if you want to be the boss, because I. There's no nine to five, there's no 40 hour week, there's no vacations. Lots of times you're the last person to get paid and it won't be full pay because you gotta pay for everybody else. Now, if you're willing to take that on, know that it'll be a long, hard grind.
Mm-hmm. But for that to happen, you have to understand that no one is gonna come save you. Mm-hmm. Nobody is gonna be banks. Don't just knock on your door and see, see, you're struggling in it. You're gonna have to apply for that. Mm-hmm. And if you don't have a history, they're not gonna, they're not gonna risk that.
Mm-hmm. If you reach out to your family, they may not believe in what you're doing. Mm-hmm. You may be all alone. Do you have the fortitude to do that? Right. Are you willing to pick up a second job to make money so that you can afford this goal? Mm-hmm. These are the questions you have to ask.
And this is what we need to, these are the things we need to impart upon young [00:18:00] people, is. There's nobody coming to save you. Look to the people who will support you and keep you responsible and accountable to doing the right things. Be sensible about it.
Liz Herl: Right. And this all sounds really helpful and informative, what you're sharing.
Mm-hmm. One of the things that I wanna make note of is that if you are not taught any of this
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: I don't know what I'm doing. Don't, yeah. If you've never seen
Tim Caldwell: it,
Liz Herl: don't, I don't know what you're talking about. Mm-hmm. So being open to that education process of grinding and grit and disappointment and that would be another aspect of this, not internalizing all of your failures as I'm just not good at this versus this is just really difficult.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And I've gotta kind of give myself some grace and some understanding here that I'm learning a whole new aspect of something and I don't know what I'm doing. I shared this with you earlier, and that is when when we're starting anything new, this was just obviously an infant idea two and a half years ago.
The podcast. The podcast,
Tim Caldwell: yeah.
Liz Herl: And it was a neat idea. But then [00:19:00] it's like formulating that, putting that into work. The substantial amount of failures I've had at this point is laughable.
Tim Caldwell: But then I'm the same. Remember I, right. We discussed this.
Mm-hmm. Somebody had said, you should, you should. And I'm going but when we joined forces mm-hmm. We figured out, okay, now we, maybe there's more balance here. Mm-hmm. And we can support each other. Mm-hmm. Maybe being more supportive on this, and I give you good criticism and you give me good criticism and we grow.
You are on the right track here. Mm-hmm. In the fact that it takes a lot of work.
Liz Herl: Right. That's, that's the thing. You can't be afraid of the setbacks. The multiple, multiple setbacks that you'll encounter and just saying, well, you know, I. The most important thing is I believe in it. I have to keep doing that.
Absolutely. And seeing what comes of it, because it isn't the recognition of what others may perceive it to be as I really want to be helpful as much as possible. Yeah. Yeah. And if I can give information in doing so, that's what I'll [00:20:00] do. Yeah. Take it or leave it. At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to.
But when things don't start stacking up in my favor. Yeah. That's where I want to.
Tim Caldwell: Are we crushed?
Liz Herl: Right. Well, and that's where we're quick to start putting us into shifting blame of, of responsibility onto someone else. Like Well, and I have been burned in many ways. I mean, if I just utilize a podcast at, at its own in a website production and all types of different aspects, I could simply say, well, this wasn't successful because I was promised things that didn't work out.
It wasn't my fault. Yeah. Because these people didn't perform their their duties. This is why this has suffered. No, I had to be like, all right, so now what? I, I gotta figure out another avenue here.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And. And
Tim Caldwell: you did,
Liz Herl: right? Absolutely. But we get into what I'm trying to share here is that we want to shift blame when things do not go.
That's right. Yeah. According to our plan. Again, that's lack of accountability and responsibility.
Tim Caldwell: And in all truth, there's a few days of just wallowing in your own, oh my gosh, what have I done? I done. Absolutely.
Liz Herl: There's plenty of [00:21:00] times that I'm just like, what is this? Why am I doing this? And being able to, then again, no one is to blame.
I have to be able to see
Tim Caldwell: No, somebody is to blame.
Liz Herl: Well, fair enough. But what I'm saying is, but you are
Tim Caldwell: taking responsibility that I can fix this.
Liz Herl: I can, I can navigate it. I can navigate this, I can figure it out. This is like, I know this really sucks. I got screwed over. This is what's happened. Yep. But yes, guess what?
I'm gonna figure it out. Yep. So. When we're going into that we have to be cautious not to go into this perfectionism mentality as well of being like, I've gotta make sure this is pristine and this is perfect. And that's really hard because specifically in this kind of setting, we are really being vulnerable, being out with the public and sharing our education and our experiences.
And you're like, well, did I sound okay? Yeah. You know, and it's like, well, I'm just giving it to you real, and this is the way it goes.
Tim Caldwell: That's the self-doubt thing. And Right. This is a lesson I just learned from a really, a dear guy who kind of got me back into training, just, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago back into heavy working out because I had hip injury and it was really, really [00:22:00] tough.
But you pulled it out and. It happened to be that I shared many of the same aspirations and we joined forces and we figured out, okay, we're gonna get this done. Mm-hmm. But like I said, there were a couple times like, Ugh, man, I got gut punched too.
Mm-hmm. Financially by thinking some people could. It's empty promises like you were Right, right. Provided services, they follow through. Mm-hmm. They, they, they promised me some different things, and when you turn back, by the time you've paid out all this money, you realize, well, I'm doing this all by myself again.
Mm-hmm. You're not doing anything. You, it's empty promises. So these things can really punch, gut, punch you. Now can you get back up?
Liz Herl: Well, yeah. Can, and because what I'm talking about here is if we just shift blame onto the hardship of the people that let you down in an experience, then you'll kind of fall into that dynamic.
Sure. With every aspect For sure. You'll go into it with any encounter that you have, like who is responsible for why this didn't work out. Yeah. Right. So there were going to that pushing deflecting responsibility onto someone else.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And we have a society that [00:23:00] right now there's a lot of, I call 'em champion reels of like, you know, you can do this.
Let go. Don't let people affect you. Yes, yes. Easier said than done. And it's all easier said than done. That puts unrealistic expectations on um, absolutely. Individuals I shouldn't let it bother me. I don't have to let things affect me that much. I can just, I would say persevere, but can we just deflect off of our own responsibility?
Tim Caldwell: If you want me to just be. Disconnected me, become a sociopath. I, you know, sure, I guess that works for your formula, but everybody has different arrangements. But mine is, is to address this, this societal thought that instant gratification is right around the corner.
If I just do, let's say there's 10 steps and I check all 10 boxes and they all look good, does that assure me success? No. Mm-hmm. It doesn't. I've used the analogy that what's the difference between a formula and a recipe? Let's say I give you the formula [00:24:00] to make chocolate chip cookies. Why don't they taste like grandma's cookies?
Mm-hmm. It's the same thing because grandma has her own special way, and I would say it's love and passion that goes into it. That's the same thing in the instant gratification thing, is you can do everything right and it doesn't turn out right. Now, do you have the fortitude to pick yourself up and try again. I used to listen to a man talk about he, he was a metal worker and he, he made forged a lot of stuff and he was always talking about how much he marveled about Japanese swords, the finest swords ever made come from Japan. That, that the metal, if you don't understand, has been folded over 200 times.
They've taken it, they flattened it out, and they fold it and they fold it and they fold it Now. That is, that is work that you cannot understand. Mm-hmm. And, and to put out an entire sword, a beautiful, beautiful sword, only to test it and the sword breaks. Can you imagine what a, a master sword maker [00:25:00] must feel?
Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh, where did I go wrong? Anyway, back to the forge. Mm-hmm. Right? And that's how he masters his skill. That's what it takes, is for people to understand that it takes hard work and it return, it requires you pounding at it all the time. What requires them too is if you are a master or what you're trying to do as a professional, can you stop and reflect and go, here's where I made my mistake.
You know what I remember I didn't have exactly what I needed that day, so I substituted that. There's your mistake, right? Mm-hmm. Or in business I was a little short on this, so I use this, or my, my go-to guy wasn't here, so I use this.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Or I outsource something and I usually do it myself.
Liz Herl: Or maybe you don't even figure it out,
Tim Caldwell: or maybe you don't even figure it out,
Liz Herl: right?
But it is what I'm hearing there
Tim Caldwell: mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Is the stop start. Mm-hmm. We talked about that earlier. You're right. Stop start. Yeah. The stop start that the stop start is incredibly exhausting because we're stopping to maybe reflect see where something [00:26:00] isn't matching up and something self-evaluation.
Right. And maybe we find the resolve, maybe we don't, but then we start again. Right. And it might be starting completely over. Right. And that's what's exhausting. And so that perseverance and which is really a need of understanding. Everyone has that ability.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: You absolutely have the ability to be perseverant in really difficult times, even when you're like, I don't know what else there is to do.
Then move. Then move. But it is the understanding that how do we do the stop start over and over and over again and not get the immediate gratification of success,
Tim Caldwell: abandon that, because that's a lie. Right? That's a lie. What I did, I failed to mention is that society has been taught that I can build a house in half an hour on HGTV.
Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. All I have to do is find this passionate builder. Mm-hmm. No. Mm-hmm. There's months in planning. Months in construction, the money. The evaluations, the permits, it doesn't happen in a half an hour. It doesn't happen. Stop thinking like that. We see that on cooking shows.
We see that. All these things. It doesn't happen. Your your crime shows.
Liz Herl: I was [00:27:00] gonna say, I was talking to you about the crime shows that the crime shows, like you can start a crime show and then within 45 minutes they've gotten all their forms. Yeah, yeah. All the blood, all everything back. And you know, all the dna NA and everything.
Yeah. And it's like, yeah. That doesn't even ever, and my mine comparably work
Tim Caldwell: mine in science. I used to love CSI, the original CSI and I would always marvel at when the crime happened. They don't give you any idea how much time passes, but it's almost like a lab guy just waiting, let me read those blood samples.
And you, it gets that done. Right? No. Doesn't have anything else going on. It takes weeks. Mm-hmm. Sometimes months, sometimes never. And yet here you can solve every crime. That's not how it works. It's not how it works.
Liz Herl: We do live in a quick abandoned society sometimes when things aren't going well.
Yeah, we do.
Tim Caldwell: Um,
Liz Herl: I do share if you're doing a project or you're doing something sometimes pausing and stepping back is really, really important to kinda regain clarity. What am I working on? Whether it be a communication, whether it be building something it can work in any aspect
Tim Caldwell: yourself.
Right. Self-improvement,
Liz Herl: being able to sit back.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: [00:28:00] Take some stock and then refocus and then reengage.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: But when we, fall into, one of the things that we kind of, glossed over here, but we didn't really touch on is. Our emotions mm-hmm. Of how we're feeling.
Mm-hmm. We fall into the sadness in the emptiness of the failure or of the disappointment, whatever it may be. And we reside there and then we abandon whatever it is that we are working on because this is just really too difficult. Yeah. And I just don't think that it's really necessary.
I can do something completely else and feel better and find, is that the
Tim Caldwell: plan BI
Liz Herl: mean, it could be, I suppose. Is that
Tim Caldwell: the way where we abandon the thing and we go try something else?
Liz Herl: Right. Could be, yeah. Yeah. That, that's
Tim Caldwell: unfortunate
Liz Herl: because we get into the idea that my emotions can they have that much power over me.
Sure, sure. Right. That I, if I feel so emotionally fatigued in something, then I have the right to abandon it and move on and do something else. Well, that isn't really a successful to lead that kind of belief system [00:29:00] in life because. I don't know where it is. Somewhere along the road in, I would say maybe the last 20 years, that there is an understanding that life isn't difficult.
Like life is hard.
Tim Caldwell: You didn't get that promise. It's full of hardships. You didn't get the rose gardens
Liz Herl: all the time. It's suffering, it's challenges. And now we're trying to gloss over that with, if someone's being unkind to you, how do you talk to them and how do you say, you know, I don't really appreciate that.
And someone can say, we're trying to maybe teach in society. I'm really sorry that that was an experience you had with me. That wasn't my intention. Mm-hmm. 'cause I, I, I wasn't trying to be unkind to you. Mm-hmm. And okay, fair enough. That's good. But if I can either accept that or hold you hostage to your emotions, but I mean, by that is I can then say, well, I don't feel like they were really sorry enough.
Oh right. Like, and so I'm holding myself in that state. Yeah. And of. You know, [00:30:00] unfairness or whatever, and that leaves me stagnant to growth.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Being able to take any responsibility of what the next steps of my life are. Yeah. Like, well, you don't understand. I've had a very hard life. I've had challenges.
Yeah. I've had disappointments. Yeah. And I, I just need, I need to sit still for a while. Okay. But what's your while?
Tim Caldwell: Well, we know that movement is life. Mm-hmm. It's just in our, in our pret taping interview we talked about in nature mammals run other mammals off. I mean, when a, when a mama has bears and they're big enough, she either just abandons them or she literally runs them off.
Mm-hmm. She'll fight 'em, she'll scare 'em until they run away. Mm-hmm. And then they gotta go live the world. Baby birds can't stay in the, can't stay in the nest. Mm-hmm. The parents just leave. That's nature. We are more highly, intelligent than that.
But the truth is, is we can't just play the victim the whole time. And if we're gonna get wrapped up in our victimology we have to let people [00:31:00] understand that life is hard, but you're gonna get through it and you need to educate yourself. We have phones sitting right here. We have, we have the whole world at our fingertips.
Mm-hmm. And rather than scratching it, sliding cubes around, we could be watching a video on how a guy does something. Mm-hmm. You were, you were talking about home repair. I talk about when I've, whenever I do some type of automotive repair that I've never seen before, there's a guy who's done it.
Mm-hmm. He's filmed it. It's right in front of me. Are you doing that are we spending the time to exp expand, expand our education?
Liz Herl: Right. But if we're lost in that emotional disappointment, no.
So we're wallowing in our, our setbacks.
Tim Caldwell: You've lost your focus because you're swimming in your own.
Liz Herl: And no one's saying, self get up. No one's coming. Right? Yes. Yes. And I know the, the sounds a little rigid and a little direct, but the reality of it is, is like you have to learn to encounter these hardships and disappointments of others and not internalize them as your failure, but as people being people sometimes.
And one of the things I, I wrote down a note here that my quick story of [00:32:00] being able to pivot, redirect, and address something that's off outta left field that I, I shared with you earlier that, some odd years ago, I won't say how many years that I went in and I had done two phone interviews.
Oh, Uhhuh. And then they called me in for an interview. So I went into this room and as I walked into this room it was a panel interview and that was not discussed with me. Yeah. I was not prepared for a panel interview.
Tim Caldwell: They're gonna sit you down in front of. Right. I was a bunch of people there.
Liz Herl: I was on a alongside of another table in front, in front of six other people, and I was like, what? In my mind I'm like, what is going on here? I was not prepared. And they were just like, oh yeah, this is a panel interview. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Sounds good. And I totally winged it, but I was like, in that moment, talk about if we wanna talk about anxiety and went through the roof.
I was like, oh my. And
Tim Caldwell: mind you to pull back the curtain, that's one of your biggest fears, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like talking in a bunch of friends people.
Liz Herl: That's why it's really funny that I have a podcast. But anyhow. Um, But I was just like okay. So I just sat there and I was like, well, here we go.
You know, fake it till you make it a little bit. And [00:33:00] got the position and it went really okay, but it was a really uncomfortable, isn't that interesting? Isn't that interesting? Super uncomfortable. Isn't that
Tim Caldwell: You got the position? Yeah. Yeah. Now here's because I'm awesome. I always give this, little story about self-improvement. I built fine furniture for about a decade. It was great. Worked with great guys, really talented guys. But I've never built furniture. I've been a good builder, but I've never built furniture. One day I walk into a place in South Wichita open these amazing doors, and I look in, there's all this beautiful stuff.
I still don't know what's going on. It's like a museum. And then I look over in the, I look through the window and I'm watching people work, and I see they're building furniture. I go, wow, that's really cool. So I watched and I watched and I watched, and I, I figured out who's in charge. That's this big guy and this big guy's walking around the shop and he's checking things.
And he finally comes to the door and I step out in front of him,
Liz Herl: put out your hand. I put out my hand because no one's watching.
Tim Caldwell: Put out my hand. I shook his hand. I told him, my name is Tim Caldwell. I've been building my whole life. I don't know what you do, but if you show me, I'll do it just [00:34:00] like you told me.
Mm-hmm. And he hired me. Mm-hmm. Sure. Now, the reason he hired me. Is because flat out, I'm not bringing any baggage with me. I'm not gonna bring, this is how I used to do it and I'm not gonna do it. I told him, you show me and I'll do it like that. He hired me because that's exactly what he did when he was a kid.
Mm-hmm. And those things are lacking in the people who want to reach out and make communications. We were talking about people who said they're applying for jobs. Mm-hmm. And how many interviews have, you know, I've been unemployed for six months, but how many interviews have you done?
None. Mm-hmm. How many applications have you sent out? Six. That's not good. You need to be sending out six a day. Mm-hmm. You need to be driving around in your car until you find a place that you think would work and go in and shake hands with somebody. That's how you're gonna get a job.
Liz Herl: Living in today's society, I'll, I'll push back on that.
That is the fact that, okay. Yes. It used to be you walk in and shook hands. Mm-hmm. Now it is very technologically driven. You have to be able to work with technology and compute something [00:35:00] into taking your resume and yes, AI formulating it into something that will meet a job description of their algorithm because it's all AI generated.
But all of this is information that you can achieve True. And, and look into it's like if this isn't working, what will work? So there's the perseverance. There's that, you know, absolutely critical thinking.
Tim Caldwell: I'm not poo-pooing that, but my pushback on your pushback is this push, is it, this is paper and ink.
Yep. And when, no, this, this will never convey you. Mm-hmm. And if you have the energy and you have the, this is your billboard. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. They can look you in the eye. Absolutely. And tell if you're, if you are shining them, they'll know it. Mm-hmm. If they believe in you or they, you know, they get the impression that this is a good guy.
Mm-hmm. Let's hire him. Mm-hmm. They're gonna hire you. Most of what I think we need to look at, in truth the causes are we don't have the mentorship we used to.
Mm-hmm. Right? We don't have, we're looking at the fruits, maybe even into the next [00:36:00] generation of times got pretty good for us post-war diseases under control. This, this whole after World War ii, this whole myth of living on credit, owning a home, working hard, going into debt, but just keep a buy now, pay later.
Mm-hmm. That all got and got us into this hamster wheel where we're just, we're kind of just moving through life only to pay bills. And then we don't, we die with nothing. Or maybe even debt. But when we get into education, education is still trying to say, you need to go to college. You need to do all these things with all of the aspirations to go on and make more money.
Mm-hmm. Well, okay. But I don't believe you need to go to college for that. If you want an education, go get a job. Go get a job doing what you want to do and be patient. Pay your dues and paying your dues requires hard work. Doing jobs you don't particularly, care for and maybe [00:37:00] working with people you don't care to work with.
But those are part of the hard dos and it's only through those experiences will you learn. Well, I've seen this, I've seen this, I've seen when things go bad. I can handle it. I know what people are, I can depend on. Now this isn't you as a boss, this is just you as an employee. But I know who I can ask when I'm having trouble too, in confidence.
But we also have the simple fact that notifications our time expenditure, we're not sleeping well. We're not exercising. Seven out of 10 people now in the United States are obese. Mm-hmm. Seven outta 10. Mm-hmm. And it's keeps going up. Sure. Life expectancies drop. For the first time this year, as a side note, the first time our national population has risen, did not come from birth.
It came from immigration. Meaning we didn't have enough babies to move the needle on our population. That's a nation that's really suffering. So how do we teach [00:38:00] young people? You have to be in a room with people who are passionate about it
and go find further education. Let's say you graduate, don't need to go to college, go to a seminar. Go meet with people. Go ask somebody who's in charge of something, can I take you to lunch? Always broadening your education, right?
Sure. Again, you have the entire world at your fingertips. Sure. And you can listen to whoever you want, but you should be broadening your, you should be broadening your horizons.
Liz Herl: Well, the one thing I would definitely say is that you're responsible for yourself. You are, you are responsible for yourself.
Specifically in young adults. You are responsible for everything that happens. And that is a lot of pressure, and that is a lot of struggle therein, but it's packed full of opportunity and experiences and delight and joy. And if that is not considered for a young person, a young adult, this is [00:39:00] what leads us into problematic pieces of all aspects of our life.
It bleeds everywhere. It goes into your workplace, it goes into your relationships, your family. If I have the idea that my responsibilities of my actions, my statements, my behaviors are someone else's you made me feel this way because of your actions. Mm-hmm. Therefore, you should be accounting for yourself.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: I shared this with you earlier and this has become problematic and something I see a lot and to hear a lot about is when. If you have, now I wanna be clear here. If you have two individuals that are trying to have a constructive conversation around a conflict or a disagreement, and someone is hearing emotional feedback and they don't care for what they're hearing.
And saying, this is what I experienced in what, or this is what I heard you say. Now you're just trying to gaslight me into what you're wanting to believe.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: So those, we have to be careful of this terminology nowadays because it's [00:40:00] being misused when we're trying to have constructive criticism in our dialogue.
It's now you're just trying to gaslight me into whatever it is that you think, no, I'm trying to give you my perspective. I'd like to hear from yours. Sure. And no, now you're trying to manipulate me. And so all of that is very cautionary as, as
Tim Caldwell: emotions go up our logic and reasoning and understanding maybe even cooperation drops.
Liz Herl: And so that further removes us from the accountability of our communication in ourself mm-hmm. Of. Of, I can deflect that onto this other person because what is happening there is you are igniting emotions in me that I'm not sure how to manage.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And so when we, that's emotional and dysregulation.
And so when that starts transpiring, I want to alleviate that as quickly as possible. Yeah. So if I shift the blame to you and I put you in a place where you're like, well, wait. That's not what I'm saying. So then you are gonna get lost in our transaction. Yeah. And as soon as I start dysregulating the whole system, I can get to a actual, in my mind mm-hmm.
A [00:41:00] calm state Yeah. Of saying like, okay, well that was really uncomfortable, but you didn't address the meat of the issue. Sure. You didn't walk in the valley. Right. And we're not also teaching that we're, we're deflecting quickly away from our emotions, our responsibility to them. So if someone says something, so when I'm talking about relationships, so an interaction happens and someone makes a comment to you that really bothered you to be able to have the, the knowledge and the awareness of self to say, you know, the, I just wanted to touch base, like the way you mentioned this kind of, you know, kind of felt like it didn't, it rubbed me the wrong way.
Yeah. And the other person, you're kind of
Tim Caldwell: calling him on that, right? I'm gonna make sure you didn't mean that personally, but you
Liz Herl: Well, I, first of I'm taking it personal. You're taking it personally. Yeah. I'm taking it personal.
Yeah. And I just wanna touch base with you on, because I don't want that to be a part of Yeah. Our dynamic. Yeah. And if it's like, oh, well actually I was being kind of, I was being rude so I shouldn't have said that. Oh, yeah. That would be someone owning their, their behavior, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Or, Hey, I'm sorry you took it that way.
Yeah. I, that wasn't my intention. Yeah. Versus [00:42:00] if, hey, you know, I don't know why you have to always act like that. That's right. Like, you're always doing this, you're always trying to make me feel bad. You're always, well, what are. You are insinuating what that transaction is. Yeah. Versus like, let's kind of call it what's going on here?
Yeah. And then I get to decide if I want to engage with you further in my life.
Tim Caldwell: That's a great segue to acknowledging what we need to be accountable for and responsible for. Right. Let's say in a scenario you're working your boss comes over and kind of makes a comment that kind of ruffles your feathers a little bit.
Like you're good at your job, everybody knows you're good at your job. Typically he's pretty pleasant, but today ruffles your feathers. Mm-hmm. Are you gonna be responsible enough to come to your boss a little bit later and go, Hey, you mentioned something to me earlier. I wanna make sure that I got this right 'cause I kind of took that wrong.
Mm-hmm. But you said, mm-hmm. Am I hearing that correctly? You're holding him accountable and you are being accountable to yourself too. Right. You're being, you're saying to yourself now. You're responsible for what you said. Correct. I wanna make sure that I'm hearing it properly. So that's a tool, right?
That's [00:43:00] Oh, absolutely. That's definitely a tool.
Liz Herl: Well, that's a maturity tool first. Absolute. Because you have to humble yourself to be I call it the one down position in, I have to be able to step down and say, okay, wait a minute. Not internalize this. Not personalize it to an emotional state of like, I'm so dysregulated, versus like, yeah, it doesn't feel great.
It's like, ooh, that kind of feels uncomfortable.
Tim Caldwell: Well, and the, and the boss too, it's now in his court. Mm-hmm. Because you, preemptively said to them, I took it this way. Am I, I'm making sure you meant that. Like that. And the boss needs to go, gosh, I didn't mean it to sound like that. I didn't get my coffee.
Mm-hmm. I was late for work. Whatever. I'm
Liz Herl: really glad you said that. 'cause I wanna jump in real quick. Absolutely. Because generally when we call people to the carpet mm-hmm. On their, their. Most importantly, their communication, their words, their actions, they're, we go into a defensive mechanism.
Tim Caldwell: The shifting blame thing. So
Liz Herl: the shifting blame Yeah. Of like, well, you know, that's not what I meant by that. And, you know, I, what I was trying to say was this, this, and this. You know what? Fine. Still don't pick that up as ownership. I wanna caution people there, [00:44:00] leave it in their realm. Like, okay, well enough, I know that now I'll go make sure to make these changes.
Exactly. Or whatever. It's, and then you walk away. I'm not going to own their dis, dis dysregulation or disruption, whatever it is, and I'm gonna leave that in the room with them and I'm walking out.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely.
Liz Herl: But that isn't something that's taught. It's normally like, it's not taught. And, you know, he's being such a, you know, and
Tim Caldwell: those jerk or whatever, that that is a tool and that that's, that's a maturity thing.
Mm-hmm. You're not just going in there and you're not blowing darts and throwing bombs. Mm-hmm. You left it in his lap. And now, now. There's a, strength that comes from that is this fear that not everybody's gonna like me. There it is. Right there it is. And let's say, you know, I watch my, I watch my boss, he talks to everybody pretty pleasantly, and he doesn't talk to me very pleasantly.
You could ask him, I suppose you could ask him, especially if it's an ongoing thing. You know, I notice you don't care for me too much. Is there a reason for that? It may be a complete misunderstanding. Mm-hmm. It could be that your [00:45:00] boss is jealous of how good you are at doing your work. It could be that more employees like you more than like you, or
Liz Herl: they don't tell you
Tim Caldwell: or they don't tell you.
Liz Herl: Everyone's looking for the reasoning and sometimes you don't get it.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. And sometimes the boss just goes whatever. Mm-hmm. And walk off. Right. You need to, you need to go look. I'm done hug, trying to hug this cactus. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna do my thing. And, you do your thing as best you can.
Right. And if it comes up to something like that, I mean, we're, we're going way down the rabbit hole, but that's what HR is for. Mm-hmm. Let's resolve this, if this is something like that. But this is holding him accountable and responsible. You. Accountable and responsible. Nobody's looking out for you but you.
Mm-hmm. And I tell this to people all the time. If you feel like you're being unjustly, you need to first bring it to the person who's doing it. If you don't get resolved or if you can't have amicable relationships there, you need to take it to the next level. But be brave about it. Mm-hmm. Be brave about it, because people will quit.
Mm-hmm. I've always said people quit [00:46:00] leadership. They don't quit a company. They don't quit an organization. When leadership is bad, you lose people. Mm-hmm. That's the military, that's everything. Sure. Well, that's when you have bad leadership, you have bad leadership, you have bad.
A bad company. Right? And you wanna be a part of something winning or something you believe in. Express yourself. Stand up for yourself. These are tools,
Liz Herl: right?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Most importantly. And you know, that that fear of not being liked is kind of like fear of missing out. It's really problematic when we get around people that for some reason are just other, just don't care for our, for our demeanor or our presence.
Yeah. It's like, I don't even know what that guy's deal is. Yeah. Like, I don't even know what's going on. And that's where self-doubt kind of starts breeding its thing. And versus saying like, well, I'm not really sure what's going on with them, but I'm not gonna try and like, it's a practice art of it is.
I am not going to like, whatever your D is, dude, I hope you figure it out. Yeah. But I'm just gonna kind of stay in my lane. That is, that's a maturity too, of, of understanding that too.
Tim Caldwell: Especially if this person is a peer and is of no [00:47:00] threat to you.
Liz Herl: Even if they're, I mean, either or, I would say even authority, you know, as long as you're respectfully engaging and doing what you're supposed to be doing in your profession or what, if we're looking at jobs specifically here, but if I know that, say you're out with a bunch of friends and there's this one person that just seems to be giving you all kinds of hard times.
Yeah. Like they just jab at you every time they can. They're like, what does this guy do? Side guy
Tim Caldwell: and snide and cynical and
Liz Herl: all these, you know, just, just pecking on you. Just, just, just annoying you. And it's just like, what is this guy's deal? Why doesn't, like, I don't know why he doesn't like me. Not everyone is going to like you.
Yeah. And I will briefly share, 'cause I shared with you earlier Yeah. My Sears story that when I was I was 16 years old and I worked at Sears in the department store, and a woman was returning an item,
Tim Caldwell: worked in suits.
Liz Herl: At this time I was in juniors, but I've worked in Bids juniors course,
Tim Caldwell: a career shaping juniors of Sears.
Yes, yes. Hey, I
Liz Herl: worked at Sears for a long time, wasn't it? Not that they're all closed, but anyway, that's old kind dates me. Hey. Yeah. [00:48:00] Hey. Anyhow I, this individual came in to return an item, our policy. She was outside the policy. I couldn't do it, no returns. I just informed her of the policy and said, I'm sorry.
And I had never, in my young 16 years of my life, seen an individual respond the way she did with yelling and loss prevention. Called me and they're like, Hey, is everything okay? And I'm like, I think so this woman's really upset, like I was so taken back from her behavior and her yelling and her screaming at me and calling me names.
I was eventually the manager did show up because she was just adamant that this was gonna happen and it didn't.
Tim Caldwell: And the manager backed you.
Liz Herl: 100% backed me. They're like, no, this is our policy. This is not acceptable. And, and we moved on. But I remember I went into the dressing room 'cause I felt like crying and I did.
And I called my mom on a landline because we didn't have cell phones.
Tim Caldwell: That's how old you are. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: I'll never forget I told you this earlier, this was such a, a point of my life that I recall very close to my heart. She was just like, yeah, I know. [00:49:00] You're gonna find a lot of people like that in your life.
There's gonna be a lot of people that do this. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, you're supposed to be reassuring me. You did nothing wrong, sweetheart. You did everything right. I didn't get that. She's like, I know this doesn't feel great, and I'm sorry that it happened, but it's gonna happen again.
And I'm like, well, this is not good news. Yeah. And I'm like, but I did nothing to provoke it, mom. Yeah. Like, that was my thought. I did nothing to provoke this kind of reaction. She's like, yeah, and it will happen again. Yeah. And it's happened many, many more times. And that was a great lesson in that moment.
Tim Caldwell: Yep.
Liz Herl: But she's like, get ready, it's gonna happen again. Absolutely. And that was a, a very good lesson that I've actually taken absolutely. With me into my adulthood of people are gonna disappoint you. People are gonna have poor behaviors.
Yeah. But this isn't on you. And she was very clear for that. Yeah. She's like this, you did what you're supposed to do. And that's the way it is. And I couldn't understand, it wasn't about this woman not liking me, but how we can respond this way. And now we see in social media, people recording each other's outlandish behaviors and [00:50:00] responses of being belligerent and things of that nature is mm-hmm.
If it's entertainment versus, it should be really concerning that, that we think that. This is appropriate ways to respond, so
Tim Caldwell: not to. Yeah. And, and we know that that's not the appropriate way, especially to a young person. They don't understand that. They don't understand it at all.
Liz Herl: Right.
Tim Caldwell: But the idea is that, that you're teaching
Liz Herl: them to respond that way.
The idea is I'm
Tim Caldwell: slapping you down and you don't tell me what to do. Right. That kind of thing. My, my lesson comes from the military and that is there's an old saying, if you can, if you can make it in the military, you can survive in jail. Mm-hmm. Well I lived in a birthing compartment that was 41 by 29 and 72 men slept in that thing.
Absolutely not. And you are crammed in there absolutely tighter than a prison. But the comradery that goes on, if you got somebody you don't get along with. Alright. I don't like you, you don't like me. Let's just agree. We, and you stay the hell away from him. Right? That that's it. Yeah. Now that's, that's a man's perspective, right?
A a woman's perspective. There's a bit more social stuff [00:51:00] that goes on around, oh, there's a lot more emotional social pieces there about, about that. That's just not to be derogatory, but there's more emotional stuff that goes with that stuff. It can get pretty catty, but in easy, in
Liz Herl: rare.
Tim Caldwell: But the my point that I wanna make about all of that is UB you.
I'll be me. We, we used to have comp, you know, we'd do stuff all the time. Building who can build a wall faster, who can put up bricks faster? Who can do that? Well, you don't like me because I'm right-handed. Mm-hmm. I can't make you left-handed. I can't do, I can't, this, everybody's different. I'm not gonna play in the nba, but we lean
Liz Herl: too much into that emotional feedback.
I know, I know. So one of the things that I, I really like this earlier when we went over it that it, it's actually. It is a dangerous aspect of it is dangerous if we do not teach accountability. Accountability, especially to our younger generation. It weakens the fabric of our community. It does. And society thrives with people that, that we can rely on, that are successful, that are, are making appropriate actions and achievements and perseverance and all of those things.
Yeah. [00:52:00] And, and this isn't
Tim Caldwell: this, this isn't hyperbole or rhetoric. Right? Right. This is truth. It really does weaken us. And, and the reason it weakens us is because if you're not accountable and responsible for your quality of work, your quality of work continues to drop and drop and drop and drop. And pretty soon we have planes falling outta the air and mm-hmm.
Ships that sink and cars that explode. Mm-hmm. And you gotta be held responsible. Now, those are huge examples, right. But let's say that in your relationship. In your relationship that goes into work or how you problem solve at home? If you, if you honestly are not living up to the fact that, well, she asked me to do stuff and I don't do it on time.
Okay, whose fault is that? Mm-hmm. You don't have to remind me every six months to do something. That's a silly statement. Mm-hmm. Why didn't you do it the first time? Because I'm tired. Why didn't you do the second? Yeah. I'm tired. Mm-hmm. Now, now let's work that out. Mm-hmm. We can, let's talk about, you know, when I'm, I know you're tired.
I'm tired when I come home too. Let's figure ~this~ out. Mm-hmm. Let's alternate, let's take tired, whatever. Those are skills, tools. But you [00:53:00] gotta, at some point, somebody's gotta look in the mirror and go, I can only be responsible for you.
Liz Herl: Without accountability, we have no progress.
That's right. And that's a real true progress, and That's right. Understanding that we are, we have to learn to understand we're responsible for our actions, our statements, our engagements. We are responsible for that. That's right. No matter what you feel provoked by you, were ultimately responsible for your res for your response therein.
Yeah. And it's not, well, you said this, therefore I responded this way because you made me feel a certain way. We,
Tim Caldwell: we see it all the time. Right. A a a lady says something to a lady in passing, and that lady hits her words isn't an attack. Mm-hmm. But were weaponized. But they weaponized words and I felt attacked and I hit you.
Mm-hmm. Okay. You escalated right off the bat. Words are just words. What value they are, you have to decide. But if you let everybody just push buttons, you're just gonna be a punching bag your whole life. Well, we're
Liz Herl: talking about mental resiliency. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Right.
Tim Caldwell: Exactly. So, [00:54:00] big question, Liz, what do we do about this?
What, what, what tools can we do to help people navigate this? The reason I say, the reason I say we have to make a decision is because an indecision in a tough spot is a decision. Mm-hmm. True. Right? Let's, if something has to get done on time and you just procrastinate when
Liz Herl: people say, I'm not gonna make a decision.
You've made a decision. You've made a
Tim Caldwell: decision. Mm-hmm. That's right. And that decision, and the reason being is I like when people say, I don't, and I don't do politics. Well, politics is moving all around you. Mm-hmm. You need to make a decision. Because it will at some point swallow you up. Yeah. If, if you are not interested in politics, by golly they're interested in you.
'cause you're paying into things, you're doing these things. I use politics only as an example because people don't like when I talk about question, but, but when, but the whole point behind making a decision means am I going to drag people through needless suffering because I won't make the decision or make the sacrifice [00:55:00] or am I going to make the decision And everybody else knows, I know this is gonna be difficult, but we're gonna suck it up, get it done, and go on.
Right. Right.
Liz Herl: So it's the, the ownership of self that we have to look at, like how do we own that? That's a really challenging place to be in. Like when we have to know that my decisions I have to own. And I really want individuals to understand that. Creating yourself some consideration grace. In a, of knowing that you're going to have setbacks that that's going to happen.
Like versus thinking, everything's going to assured,
Tim Caldwell: completely assured right?
Liz Herl: Completely have certainty and assurance that things are working out. And you're winging it. That's life. Life is winging it. There's no instructing manual. There's no, absolutely not. And we have to have that awareness within ourselves.
Like, I need to like, take a minute to be like, I gotta take a beat. Like, this is some really crazy stuff going on, and I just need to kind of give myself some grace. Mm-hmm. And check in and say like, what is happening? And I, I need to [00:56:00] kind of reassess, realign, and then refocus myself and go right back to it.
So we do have to make sure we're doing that as well as, as checking in with others.
Tim Caldwell: But Liz, we know, unless you're, unless you're. A hermit. Mm-hmm. And really sequester your life. And Well, and
Liz Herl: some people do that and some people do that. It's unfortunate.
Tim Caldwell: But we know there's got to be somebody out there you can ask for help.
There's plenty. And it doesn't, mental help, financial help, emotional help. Mm-hmm. Just social help. Mm-hmm. Can you just help me? Mm-hmm. I want, I wanna learn how to talk to somebody. Mm-hmm. Can you help me? It's usually always gonna be an elder. Mm-hmm. Right? It's always gonna be somebody older than you or more experienced than you.
But the more important thing is you're asking for help. Don't, do not be shy. Nine times outta 10. I would venture is that. If a young person comes to an old person and they sincerely go, I'm having trouble with this, and please use grownup words, don't grunt and show emojis, would you just use some conversation, say, I'm trying to get [00:57:00] something done.
Liz Herl: That might be their generation to, I know,
Tim Caldwell: which is a problem, but you need to use your words, you're grownup words and say, I need some help here. And in all likelihood, you'll have almost everybody try. Now you have to decipher what's good and what's, what's gonna fit, what's not gonna fit, what, what can you tolerate?
What are you ready to accept? And I told you, and then try to apply.
Liz Herl: Correct. And I told you this earlier that a lot of times, so people are like, well, I have asked for help and no one's helping me. Then ask somebody else.
Tim Caldwell: That's right.
Liz Herl: Then keep asking. That's keep searching. That's that it's, and when I ask for help, I'm looking for insight to resolve something that I've already put the framework to, by the way.
That's
Tim Caldwell: right.
Liz Herl: I'm not asking for help for maybe from scratch. You should have an outline of what you're building. Absolutely. And say, Hey, can you see. You know, where I've got some holes here and help me fill in these holes. Yeah. And knowing that if someone says no, then ask somebody else and just continue to really advocate for yourself because it's important.
You know,
Tim Caldwell: something that just popped into my head too is about [00:58:00] asking help offer help.
Right? You there, there, if you've been in a position for a while and you see new people come on and you see them struggle, don't let 'em just struggle. Don't, don't let them just flounder in their indecision because that was you.
Mm-hmm. Wouldn't you appreciate it if that, that's the, that's, that's the inverse of that is mm-hmm. Offer help. Mm-hmm. Right. Use your, use your words. So, in the gym business, mine is, if you see people in the gym and they're struggling or they're over there and they're, you know, they're, you know, they're high school kids and they're all rubber and magic, and they wanna see how much they can lift, great.
But you might go, Hey guys, can I show you something? Mm-hmm. Or. How about I put you through a or whatever. I'm a, I'm speaking from a coach, but even if you've been in the gym for a long time, and you might run a reach in and you guys guys gotta be careful. You're gonna hurt yourself and you might get ~some,~ eh, go away old man.
You may hear that. I, I, I've heard it, but you know, go away. Old man. Oh yeah. And then I kill 'em. No, I'm kidding. But what, what, what, what happens is at least you offered. Mm-hmm. And if they decide [00:59:00] not to, but you know what, the proof is in the pudding. That's right. When you can, when you can go through it and, and people recognize you're good at what you do, then that's your part.
This is part of the solve too. You gotta help them too.
Liz Herl: Sure.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Sure. And you know, as we come to a closing, we're wrapping up. I just think that the one thing that, you know, we had some real direct talk today around accountability and responsibility. We did. And I wanna make sure that there's an understanding of self-compassion.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: One thing that is important, if I'm not really shown what this looks like is, can sound really foreign. It sounds like. That's a great idea, but I don't know where to start and, and the starting point is always. Right there at the very beginning of saying, I don't know what, where to start. And asking for help is, is kind of evolving in that too.
It's like you, you say, well, I have an idea of how I wanna do something different. Mm-hmm. But I don't know exactly. And I may fall back onto traits of like, I don't know. Mm-hmm. So I don't do. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well no, I don't know, but I've gotta figure out how to do. Mm-hmm. [01:00:00] Right. And understand that this process, that you're always growing, you're always evolving, you should be anyhow, of what your abilities are.
That's a great self-awareness piece of like, I can always. Just build on what I, what I already have. But then what? I don't know. I'm just building, I'm continuously building Sure. But doing in a, in a way of don't be unreasonable. Don't put yourself in unrealistic expectations. Yeah. Which most, which most people like to do.
Yeah. Be a little kind to yourself, know that you're growing, that you want to take responsibility when things aren't going right. That is a really tough moment to be in because then you're having, you're having to look at, I'm gonna step up to the plate here. Yeah. And this is gonna be really uncomfortable.
Yeah. And I'm gonna do it though because this is the right thing to do. It's the responsible thing to do.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. You just had a little bit of an experience with your young one going to the dentist. Mm-hmm. Everyone's gotta go to the dentist. Right? Right. This isn't easy. Right. We all gotta mm-hmm. We gotta do some things we don't want to do.
But you know what, yeah.
Liz Herl: I, I [01:01:00] did, I told her, I said, we have to do hard things, and this is a hard thing.
Tim Caldwell: There's, there's some, there's plenty of times in our life we've talked about this. You say it frequently. Is that life is frequently struggle. Struggle and sometimes a lot of struggle and some hardship.
But every so often they're sprinkled in this glimmer of, Hey man, this is win, win, win. You know? And I, what a great day. What great weather? Mm-hmm. Are you recognizing the good? Can you see the flowers? Mm-hmm. Popping up out there in the gravel. Can you know the stuff in the sidewalks? Is it pretty? Yeah.
You know, life isn't perfect. Business isn't perfect. Mm-hmm. Accountability and responsible. It's not perfect. It's not easy. I can't, it's not easy. It's not, it's, it's hard to teach. But, you know, what's interesting about all of this is that we are not alone. Mm-hmm. We're not meant to be alone. Correct. If, find yourself, find fellowship in the gym and find fellowship in your church.
Go see your pastor. Go see your rabbi. Go see whoever you need to see. Mm-hmm. Your mother, your father, whoever you're close to, [01:02:00] especially people who have had experiences and they've told you stories about the war and the depression and the man. You wanna talk about hard times. Mm-hmm. It's not even, it's not even relatable.
Sure. But it's different. Mm-hmm. So find out people who can do that. And like everything we do, Liz, we just ask people to try. Mm-hmm. Try, try your level best and be a good person. It's like to the best of, to the best of your ability. Absolutely. Absolutely. Any closing thoughts?
Liz Herl: Just that for people to always be mindful of themselves.
Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: And that
Liz Herl: you are a work in progress always. Yeah. And that, that's actually exciting. It's not daunting that you get to look at yourself every day and see what else is new. One. Last thing that I would say that you mentioned there is that yes, we've talked about life is very challenging.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: But we have such beautiful, blissful moments of peace and happiness that I think that we've tried to expand those. So we should always be blissful and happy. And the reality [01:03:00] is we have moments of those, and then when we have them, we should really relish in them. Absolutely. Because the challenge is always there and that's life.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. That's, that's, that's exactly, that's, that's beautiful. I, I'm always gonna tell people, take care of yourself. Treat people like you'd want to be treated. And as always, Liz, I always want people to stay tuned to our Anchored in Chaos podcasts We're learning and we still enjoy it and we're getting some things right.
That's nice. And one day we'll make some money at this, but you guys like, share, comment follow along this is a learning experience for ourselves. Always. Yeah, always. Thanks everyone. Thanks everybody. Bye-Bye.