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What is the best supplement for me? What potency is right? What does the research show? Is it worth the money? These and all of your other supplement questions are answered here. Jared St. Clair brings well researched information so that you can make more informed decisions regarding your health, specifically focused on how to effectively use natural supplements to optimize your health and Vitality. Of course supplement and food choices aren't the only factors in optimal health. Jared also shares a regular series of Emotional Vitality episodes that will help you release the negativity that may be holding you back and embrace your full potential. Vitality Radio is not JUST about health, it is about HEALTH FREEDOM. Jared provides needed insight into the current threats to your health as well as the threats coming from government agencies, pharmaceutical companies and modern medicine as a whole. With over 35 years of experience in the natural products world, and a hearty dose of wit and sarcasm, Vitality Radio isn't just educational but entertaining and enlightening.
Richard Passwater
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[00:00:00]
Jared: Welcome to Vitality Radio. I'm Jared St. Clair, and I'm your host each and every week. I am really intrigued by the conversation that I'm about to share with you, , because this topic is really hot right now. You may have heard the word collagen getting thrown around. , it's in so many articles and so many different publications online right now, and people are talking about not just collagen, but how do we make more collagen?
, should we be using collagen as a supplement? What can it do for everything from things like leaky gut to joint health, to bone density and bone health, and all of the. Possible benefits of collagen, but one thing that I don't hear a lot of people talking about are what are the things that our body needs to make more collagen?
And that's what we're gonna talk about today. I've got [00:01:00] Richard Passwater Jr. Joining me on Vitality Radio. Richard, welcome to the show.
Richard: Thank you for having me. It's a real honor and privilege to, be here today. Enjoy listening to your, , podcasts and, I'm excited to be part of it. Thank you.
It's exciting to have you. Before we started recording, we talked about how both of our fathers are, , longtime natural products industry people going way back. In fact, our fathers were born a year apart, from each other back in 36 and 37. And, , as, , old timers in the industry, it'll be fun to reminisce about this stuff and how it goes.
But let me tell my audience a little bit about you First. You're the medical and educational director with Bio Minerals, , nv, which is a Belgian manufacturer of a product called BioSil. Now BioSil, if you've never heard of it, has been around for a long time. It's, been the standard bearer, I would say, of really well researched silica.
And so that's, who you're representing today. You [00:02:00] graduated Kum Laude from the University of, it says the University of Georgia in Athens, Georgia. Is that accurate?
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_richard_passwater_jr-71ishb7nf_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: It's University of Georgia. Sorry
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_jared_st__clair-xta7zwm1b_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: That's what I thought.
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_richard_passwater_jr-71ishb7nf_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: I must that's the National Champion University of Georgia.
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_jared_st__clair-xta7zwm1b_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: I figured it was Georgia, but we had a little typo there. I wanted to make sure I got that right.
, you've held a variety of research, quality control, and technical sales positions in the dietary supplement industry, and you've written over 120 articles, been guessed on over 250 radio and TV shows and now including this one, and co-authored two peer reviewed scientific studies and also the co-venture of three patents and several patent pending applications.
So what's really interesting besides your vast background, is where you're coming to us from, , Turkey, , after a, real big earthquake apparently.
Richard: Hi, I'm calling in from Istanbul. Fortunately, we're very safe here. Istanbul is up on the, like, where the Pacific Northwest is the, , upper [00:03:00] West side. And most of the quake activity was down in the central, southern part near the Syrian border. , here we, , didn't feel the rumble, , but they are transporting some seriously, , injured, patients up here to some hospitals that, are near where I'm staying.
But, I, , get to, oh, go ahead. Sorry about that.
Jared: I was just gonna say, I think you hold the honor of being the longest distance interview that I've done up to this point. So coming from all the way from Turkey.
Richard: , thank you for having me. It's, I'm amazed with the modern technology and how you make it easy and fun to, , connect halfway around the world.
Jared: Yeah, it's really cool. And of course you're in the lobby of a hotel, so if you hear some clinking and c clanking, a little bit of background music, that's what's going on there. But really thrilled to have you. So a little bit of background here. We just talked a little bit about your background.
How did you get involved with, with Biominerals, the people who make the BioSil?
Richard: I was very fortunate., in 2004, they were looking for, a technical based, , person to help, , be like a liaison between their, , proper r and d staff and, , [00:04:00] different regulatory bodies and medical communities. , and, , our are different, partners around the world that, , distribute bio.
And, , the, , Mr. Allen Nik, I used to always say he's like the founder, but he didn't, but he was the one at the, the steering wheel. Him and his son Ransick made it what it is,, today. And,, he recommended me, for the. And it's been very fun ride, getting to travel around the world, talking about the importance of collagen different strategies, rejuvenated throughout somebody's,
Jared: I was gonna say, it must be interesting, , working for a company that is an international company that's not located here in the us, , where you get to then see how supplements are in various different parts of the world. , and I think that would be quite fascinating whenever ever, I don't get to get out there that often, but I've been to Europe a few times and one of my favorite things to do is to stop into a little health food store and see what it looks like, what's their store like compared to vitality here in Utah. And it's [00:05:00] always fun, especially to get a seed brands that I recognize oh, is a brand that I carry and it's over here in a different language. It must be a pretty fascinating thing that you do.
Richard: Yeah, , it's a lot of fun. , like as an example here in, , Turkey, Solgar is king, and when you walk into store, , it's a big gold set and very recently was in Dubai and, , and Dubai, blue Bonnet. It's huge. And I work with Gary Burrows, the owner of on it years ago, and I had no idea they did business like that in Dubai.
And to walk into the stores and see 300 different products of his, it was a real treat. I learned something in each country, how they marketed a little bit different, how they positioned things. And I also appreciate the freedoms that we have in the United States, , where we have a much a bigger assortment of, supplements available in the states and.
Although we can't talk about,, curing diseases, , I think we have more freedoms talking about , , the way that the products impact the physiology. , and,, one can better communicate, , the [00:06:00] benefits and help people, , decide which form of magnesium's best for them. , where in some of the other countries, they don't have very many forms of magnesium and you can't say much about it.
And it's hard to help people, , the same way as in the US So learn things. But one of the things I, that's some of the freedoms we fought hard for in the states are quite meaningful at the.
Jared: Yeah. And it's easy, like everything else in life to complain about what you have or don't have, , without having that perspective. That's interesting because of course, part of the that I do on Vitality Radio, my listeners are well aware is, , complain a bit about, F D A and C D C and government overreach in our healthcare and all these different things.
But, , thankfully we do have some laws that protect us , , quite well. I work with, , Distributor in the UK and , there's a lot of things I can't sell to him that are on my shelves as over-the-counter supplements, here in America. So I absolutely agree with what you're saying there.
So let's talk about this topic of [00:07:00] collagen. Collagen, like I said in the intro, is super hot right now. Everybody's got a collagen product or a collagen boosting product. And of course there's a plenty of research as to why collagen matters, but I wanna get your perspective on it cuz I'm actually really curious what you'll have to say on this.
First off, for people that are somewhat unfamiliar with collagen, what it is, where it comes from, what it does in the body. Let's start there.
Richard: Collagen is a strong, flexible, fibrous protein. And it seems to be the body's go-to material whenever it needs to make something that's, , both strong and flexible. And it forms the, , framework of all connective tissue in the body. And to me, it's, one of the most fascinating proteins in the body, if not the most fascinating one.
, it's tremendously, , flexible pound for pound. It's stronger than steel even. , and,, the place you can observe it the most is, in the skin. The skin's about, 75% collagen, where it gives, skin it's, thickness, it's, strength. It's what [00:08:00] reflects light from the skin to give somebody a radiance or glow.
And generally, when somebody thinks about collagen, Often think about the skin, but it forms the framework of, bone bones, about 30% collagen, where the collagen, gives bone its, flexibility and its ability to absorb energy and bend rather than break. Chalks very dense calcium, but you can break it with your fingers.
Modern bone researchers think that bone strength is actually 80% of the strength comes from the collagen in it. , joint tissues generally go 70 to 90% collagen blood vessels are, in the 40% collagen range, lungs and gastrointestinal tracts get up in 60, 80% range. Some places and an often overlooked area, mucus membrane.
That's like the skin inside the body, inside of your gum and ears and nose. , and you actually have, 200 times more surface area inside your body than you do skin. , and that, that's, collagen based tissue as [00:09:00] well, and can be, depending on, the thickness of it, somewhere in the 40 to 60% collagen range.
So at the end of the day, when you look at somebody's body, it's about five to 7% coll. So this puts, your average man somewhere, nine to 13, 14 pounds of collagen, and your average woman seven to, 11, 12 pounds of collagen. So quite significant portion of somebody's mass when it comes down to it, especially considering, properly hydrated persons like 60 or 65% water.
So if you discount that and take a look at the solid material, , and, five to 7% of , , the gross weight, , colluding the water is collagen. This is a very important, , part of the body. And, , it's constantly being, , attacked by things, , free radicals, sugar stress hormones like cortisol, tear it down, homocysteine injury, , sometimes medication side effects, , tear it down, , and it needs to be rebuilt. And a group of, , French [00:10:00] researchers recently estimated that to repair five sets of tissues, not all the collagen in the body, but five sets of tissues. It's most of the collagen in the body at the end of the day. , the body needs to make one pound of collagen every five days. It's much more dynamic than thought, even just 10 years ago.
And, , if somebody's gonna properly repair themselves in the same condition that they are, they have to make about, , a pound of collage in every, , five days to, , to keep the status quo. If they wanna, ,reverse time or better, themselves, they have to produce more than that. And if they don't, , then they will deteriorate.
And it's, , it's like a bank account. You start every day with a certain amount, you lose some, you have the opportunity to make some more, and then you end the day with a different amount, and it's never too late to, , influence that. And you can do measures to, , slow down the amount you're losing and you can do measures or take measures to, , facilitate the growth of, , new collagen as well.
So it's, , something that as people we can really, roll up our sleeves and [00:11:00] make conscious efforts to, , approve both ends of the equation. And, it's one of the reasons I like BioSil so well because, , it does address both the collagen laws and the, , generating new collagen as well.
Jared: Okay, so I, you brought up a lot of really good stuff there that I . Want to dive into. Let's first start with, one of my favorite things to talk about on Vitality Radio are what are the things that we can do to protect ourselves, , from these various losses? I talk a lot about protecting ourselves from the loss of, , good bacteria in the microbiome by, not avoiding antibiotics and not using antibacterial things and this kind of stuff.
But you mentioned specifically there are some things that we can do to avoid collagen loss. Let's talk about those.
Richard: We're very lucky. And, , a lot of ways that, , the number of collagen generating cells, , in the body, , doesn't really change after, , somebody's about 10 or 11 years old, the concentration of the fibroblasts family of cells, , pretty much the same. So from a [00:12:00] biochemistry point of view, it's a good thing.
The factories that make collagen are there, and the average person generally loses about 1% of collagen each year in their adult. And, , it's something that doesn't have to happen. The machinery to make the collagens there. It's just the machinery's not functioning as well. And it's generally because the, , factory workers, , which in the case of collagen or the enzymes that, , are used to assemble and mature collagen generally don't function, , as.
And then, , people as they get older, they often will do more things to destroy, , collagen., there's the, two sets of the equation. So, going back, to your question on what we can do, , or to avoid collagen loss, I think that the big four sets of things that destroy collagen or homo. which is a byproduct of, of, , methionine metabolism. Methionine is a scarce amino acid in the diet, and, the body's a wonderful piece of machinery. And [00:13:00] when it metabolizes methionine, it makes homocystine and it's designed to convert that homocystine back to methionine or to another scarce amino acid called cystine.
B6 converts it to cystine b12, folic acid. And, , choline converted back to methionine. And unfortunately, as people get older, , they generally, , don't absorb these, , B vitamins and b vitamin like compounds as well. And they do more things in their body to increase the need, , for these B vitamins.
, so they don't have as much to neutralize homo. , and the homocysteine levels generally, , elevate. , and then as the, , homocysteine elevates, the homocysteines chemically corrosive to collagen and it interferes with a enzyme called lial oxidase, which is required to make collagen. So it suppresses new collagen production as well.
So the homocysteines particularly damaging cause it destroys what you.
Jared: Let me ask you a question about that really quick before you move on. I'm very curious. So with someone that would be dealing with the M T H F R mutation, [00:14:00] and struggles, then of course with the assimilation of Folate and b12, b6, things like that, would that person be more likely to struggle with collagen production collagenloss?
Richard: Yes. That's a very good point. , I haven't been asked that before, but, I think you're right on the money. much of the, especially fortified foods, , with the, in it, , the people with the mutation don't properly convert it to, you're properly methylated into the active form. So they're only like relying on,, methyl folate as an example, or methyl cobalamine, , that's found in the diet as opposed to, , other forms, , that. people without the mutation , can process correctly. So they generally have, , struggles with, , finding adequate, B12 and folic acid in the body. , and, they don't have as much, , left, , to neutralize homo, , and then that, will, , facilitate collagen destruction , and challenge, , collagen metabolism. So they're at very high risk to have collagen, , related,, problems,[00:15:00] it's something they can address, , by, supplementing with, forms that don't need process. They can beat the mutation by,, taking, , methylated, , forms of those. Also, , as an example, choline, , doesn't need, , methylated, to function in, the homocysteine or it's not affected by the mutation.
So it's something that those people can take as well , to help spare some of the B12 and folic acid. A lot of these, nutrients for some things are interchangeable. And if you give an example, a lot of choline into the body, , the body can save B12 for other roles. If it's not using it to, , neutralize homocysteine, it can use it to activate osteoblast cells to make bone as an example.
, and it, you can use it to build osteoblast cells to better make bone but if you're using all your B12 to, neutralize homo esteem, then it's not there to, , activate osteoblasts to build bone. , so if, there's a hierarchy and, , some of the things like neutralizing homo the body is a little bit more flexible, , and.
Eating a [00:16:00] more diverse diet, , picking up, , choline in its metabolite. Betaine can often save, , folic acid in, , b12, , to do more specific roles that specifically require those., so it's a very good question. I apologize. I rambled a little bit with the answer cause , it's a novel question I hadn't, been asked before, the was bit rough.
It, did it make
Jared: Yeah, I think so., and it's an important thing, right? This whole M T H F R thing is a whole different story for a different day. We don't have time to do that for three hours, which is what we'd need., but I think it's important cause I know I, I have a lot of listeners that either know that they're dealing with that mutation or , are concerned that they might be dealing with that mutation.
And so whenever something like this comes up and we talk about something so structurally critical as collagen, I think it's important to, to dive in there a little bit. Back to what you were saying, cuz I did interrupt , the big four homocystine was number one, one of the other three.
Richard: And then you have, , Stress hormones, especially cortisol, is very much homocysteine. It destroys what you have and suppresses new [00:17:00] collagen production. And the body's fight and flight response really, , saves energy for your brain, your lungs, your heart, , skeletal muscles. And, , it doesn't deem, , repairing itself long term as a high priority when it's scared.
Body will down-regulate collagen production and, , destroy collagen trying to make fuel. and, it can really take a toll. Generally, if you take a look at, , somebody under stress, you can see it in them over time. A politician often looks like their grandfather or grandmother after a term, and then they get outta office and they start to look better again.
Glycation, which is a violent reaction between sugar and a protein, , destroys, collagen. And then there's a group of, , secondary reactions called advanced. Glycation in products they call 'em ages. , there's a lot of wonderful work out area of the country where you are in those against collagen.
And, they will destroy collagen throughout the body as well. The ages are secondary reactions to the glycation and they can also be introduced, into the body by environmental [00:18:00] pollutants. Often when you breathe in things that have been burnt and when you eat charred foods and things they'll often be loaded with, gly, advanced glycation in products.
So where I'm from, we like to eat barbecue sauce, we like to burn meat with, and then slather it with barbecue sauce, and it's very tasty, but you're destroying collagen, when you do that. And then, , free radicals, especially sunlight and, , variety of different, , environmental pollution., I forgot to mention with, glycation, , diabetics as an example, are often, , look, , 15% older than they actually are.
And that is often because the, , sugar regulation problems that they have, they end up with high glucose levels in the blood that reacts with the collagen, damages the blood vessels, which leads to circulatory problems, and it also damages the skin. And they, they generally look 15% older than they're cause of that that damage due to the high blood sugar levels.
For our friends, the free radicals, again, of environmental pollutants especially sunlight , it's overexposure to the sun. Different types of Byproducts from energy [00:19:00] production, leaky mitochondria can cause excessive free radicals that can damage collagen in the body.
So I like to put those those are the big destroyers. And then the time in somebody's life when collagen losses to is the greatest is in the first five years after menopause. Some of this has to do with less estrogen in the body after menopause, the ovaries don't make estrogen anymore.
Only the adrenal glands do. So estrogen levels go way down. And estrogen supports collagen production. So, there's less estrogen telling the body to make collagen, but that doesn't really explain why there's such a big loss. It explains why there's a reduction of what's being made.
But after menopause, there's an enzyme that makes choline, it's called ethyl amine methyltransferase, and it's called pimped and p emt. And this enzyme makes. And it requires estrogen to work. So after menopause the body really slows down or pretty much stops making choline. And because it stops making choline homocystine levels tend to rise.
And cholines also [00:20:00] involved in managing stress responses. And generally people that don't have enough choline have challenges managing anxiety and stress. Adequate choline. People with adequate CHO or more than adequate CHO generally have better stress response and better cortisol levels where people with suboptimal choline intake have more anxiety higher cortisol levels.
Generally after menopause the. Choline levels go way down. Homocysteine and cortisol levels go up. And I think that's why there's such a big loss that occurs after menopause. And it's something that doesn't have to happen. It's not easy to manage stress, but recognizing that there's uh, Increased nutritional needs is something people can address. They can take additional choline, they can take additional B6 and vitamin C and magnesium that are involved in managing stress. And then if necessary they can try different stress response techniques, behavioral things. And also there's a variety of other pharma, GABAs and asandra extracts and lots of other different things [00:21:00] to explore theanine and other techniques they can talk to you about in the store depending on their specific situation that they can take as well.
Any minute somebody spends uh, better managing stress is a minute well spent. And it's also a minute that's gonna help protect your collagen. So those are, in my opinion, the big things that destroy collagen and for the most part, They're all stuff that people can manage to some degree, and people can make a very significant difference in their life by, recognizing that these are things that destroy collagen and making meaningful change and taking action in areas that they might be at high risk.
Jared: Yeah, so that's a a really interesting list because like you said I like the words you used for the most part. These things can be managed because stress isn't going away for any of us. But there are so many things that we can do to enhance our body's ability to work through stress, everything from breath work, to meditation, to even one of my favorites that I talk about on the show. Curiosity as to why you're feeling the [00:22:00] stress and trying to understand what's happening in your own head. I've been taking notes. I don't always take notes during my own show, but you're giving me so much good information here. So I'm taking notes and now I think I might have to do a whole show on hoisting, cuz I think that's something. Maybe a lot of people listening aren't very familiar with, but it's a really critical component to our health. And so we'll talk about that in more detail on another episode of Vitality Radio. But basically, we're wanting to manage homocystine, we're wanting to manage stress. We're gonna eat less sugar, less charred food as you mentioned maybe skip the burnt ends if you're at the barbecue place, that kind of thing. And manage our free radical levels, which is a combination of, of stressors that create free radicals, as you mentioned, environmental stress, but also physical, mental, emotional stress creates free radicals as well. So , those are the big four. They're pretty big. And I'm actually very seriously thinking that this is, this might be an episode two to tack onto this, cuz I think we can talk about those in more [00:23:00] detail. But let's stop there for now as far as what we can do to prevent collagen loss. Let's talk about what the body needs because one of the things that you said very early on that I think may have peaked some people's interest, because when we talk about collagen, most people think of it as a supplement. And I don't think that there's necessarily anything wrong with that. I personally do take collagen myself and we sell collagen at Vitality. I think it can be a very useful thing, but I always look at, okay, what's the body supposed to do if everything's working like it should be? And one of the things that the body is supposed to do if everything's working like it should be, is make collagen. So what helps us make more collagen? How does that process work?
Richard: Collagen is a a fascinating protein. The only downside to it is it's regulated by more than 40 genes. And it's a complicated protein to make. Proteins are put together in chains by linking together different amino acids. The body [00:24:00] makes a messenger, r n a template, which is like a puzzle frame, and then the body puts amino acids.
There's transfer r n a that goes out and gets the right amino acids, brings 'em in and puts 'em on the template in the right spot so the amino acids are lined up in the right order. So you need protein and you need the the right proteins that are going to be either containing the amino acids you need or that can be made into the right amino acids. Our product one of the ways it works is by helping the body make the two most prevalent amino acids in collagen, which are one third, glycine and prolene. And prolene is the second most abundant amino acid in collagen. This is where collagen supplements, I think, can come in as well. When you eat collagen supplements, they're either digested in the gut into the amino acids that can, be used to build collagen later on, or they can be absorbed as peptides. And then in the pro collagen recycling system, they get broken down into amino acids, which can be used to form new collagen.
After the body gets done, making the [00:25:00] initial, what they call alpha chains then there's a series of at least 10 enzymes that are involved. Sometimes you'll see numbers as high as 13. Sometimes people say there's not that many but there's at least 10. It's a safe area to talk about that need to process.
And they have to link they have to modify the chains to link them together to form triple helixes. And then they have to link the triple helixes together to form thin fibers called fibers. And then they have to bundle the fibers together to form fibers. And then they have to form a matrix or a fishnet outta the different fibers.
And these enzymes require keys to turn them on. And generally enzymes that are processing proteins like this, they require a vitamin key and a mineral key to start them up. And at least five of the enzymes require orthosilicic acid, silicone to turn on, and at least seven of the enzymes require vitamin C as a key to turn them on. And then irons involved. And some you need copper as a co-factor and one zinc and a couple. And [00:26:00] these are minerals that are in vitamin C is a vitamin that are required to help make collagen. And we got started working with BioSil investigating it for bone health cause bone's, 30% collagen. And we were gonna commercialize a anabolic bone complex making a bone builder. And we quickly learned that most of the consumer interested in it. Anytime you generate collagen has to do with skin. I once gave a lecture to 650 orthopedic doctors in Orlando about the hazards of Biphosphonate trucks.
And the questions weren't about, I thought they were gonna tear me up afterwards. But the questions were about have you studied this for skin? We quickly went the skin direction, but our product really works by activating the enzymes that are involved in processing the developing collagen to mature it. So I like to say the factories that collagen are built in are the fibroblasts and the factory workers that live in and around the fibroblasts. That actually make the collagen. Those are enzymes. So [00:27:00] our product helps the enzymes in the collagen supplement is a great way to get protein, if you need it, additional or better proteins in your diet.
You can really start a fight at a nutrition conference talking about how much vitamin C you need or how much protein you need. But I would say that especially in older people, you're probably looking at 40% of the population that's not getting enough protein in their diet. At least if you wanna go with a bigger number, I'm not gonna argue with you if I give a bigger number, somebody's gonna get pen their ears back and type in
But collagen supplements can be very helpful in many people. But I think product like BioSil, a product like vitamin C are your first line solutions that help everybody. Cause everybody has to activate enzymes to process the protein that they get in their diet into collagen.
And I think that's the first thing that people can do. Then if. They find they're not getting enough glycine or the body can make glycine a couple of different ways, but it can only make a little bit bio [00:28:00] cell can help optimize that. But, taking a glycine supplement or taking a collagen supplement, it can help make sure you get.
More depending on the situation, somebody's in collagen supplements can be a very complementary thing to do along with the vitamin C along with BioSil to further support collagen production. But I very much like what you said more eloquently than how I say it. I always like to work within the body's natural physiology, supporting that first, and then there's often a need to provide like a remedial or a foundation level of something else to help.
And collagen supplements can certainly be something to consider. There's often a variety of what we'll say non-animal or vegan type. Mixes of different amino acid sources that mimic amino acids that are required
so there are a lot of options depending on somebody's situation. But these are not two of the same thing. It's two very different ways to address supporting college and.
Jared: So I think this is a really important point to make. There [00:29:00] are a lot of different things that we can do to influence collagen clearly both directions, right? Collagen loss as well as collagen building get, I've talked about a condition called sarcopenia on vitality radio before, which is mostly in older adults in America, about 50 plus seem to struggle more with sarcopenia, and one of the biggest reasons they believe that happens is a lower intake of protein generally.
So just making sure we're getting enough protein from, whichever sources you choose to get your protein from. Collagen supplements being a great source of protein and a pretty bioavailable source. But there's also, again, the flip side with the the stress management homocystine and free radicals.
So this is a pretty big picture that we're painting, but there's a few things that I wanna kind of dial in on First, I'm curious, you mentioned glycine and proline. You said there was one other amino acid collagen is made up of just three amino acids. Is that right
Richard: No, sorry.
Jared: Or not? Collage
Richard: It goes glycine something else, which is usually proline 34% of it gets converted to [00:30:00] hydroxyproline, and then there's a third amino acid, and then it starts again. Glycine, proline or hydroxyproline and something else. There's a debate on how many types of collagen. 23 is a figure that's often used. Sometimes you'll hear bigger numbers. Other times people think that those are genetic abnormalities. These other types of collagen, it's a little bit misleading. Cause 93 or 94%. Collagen in the body's generally, type one the most prevalent, in the skin, the bones, the, tendons, ligaments mucus membranes, blood vessels.
Type three is often made when the body can't make enough type one. It's plan B. If the body has to make a scar quickly, it tries to make type one. If it's just not able, it makes type three. It can make a lot, but it's sloppy. It's not high quality, and then the body tries to tear it down and remodel it over the next two years.
Type two is a specialized slick collagen. It's in the cartilage generally where it's known for. It's also in the eye in a couple of places and on the end of some bones the ear. And it's only the [00:31:00] end of all long bones in the cartilage as well. Helps the bones glide instead of grind.
But they generally start with 17 or 18 different amino acids, and then some of the lysine gets converted to hydroxy lysine. And then some of the proline gets converted to hydroxyproline. So it starts with 17 or 18, and then it gets converted to 19 or 20 depending on the different amino acids.
But it comes in those triplet codes
Jared: Okay. No, that's okay. I wanted to make sure I clarified that because I got a little confused myself. So basically what you're really talking about, if I'm understanding you correctly, and I wanna make sure that everybody is understanding, this is basically when we're talking about collagen production in the body, we're talking about some key components that have to be present.
We need the vitamins and minerals that turn on the production or turn on the enzymes, the enzyme keys, as you mentioned, we need the specific amino acids. And those amino acids that we definitely need are the glycine and the proline to start creating that that higher level of collagen production.
Is that accurate?
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_richard_passwater_jr-71ishb7nf_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: Absolutely. You said it.
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_jared_st__clair-xta7zwm1b_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: [00:32:00] Okay. And so then we do need to make sure that we're getting enough vitamin C, we need to make sure we're getting enough protein. And then you mentioned this, and of course we've gotta talk about this whole silica thing. Silica, also known as s silicone or s silicone. Which is of course a naturally occurring mineral.
If you think about in nature, one of the primary places you find silicon. Sand. And it's an interesting thing because when I think about it, and I'm trying to explain this to people at vitality, I say, can you imagine eating a a spoonful of sand and saying, okay, body break this down and use it for something, right?
It's not an easy mineral to assimilate. So what's happened with BioSil as I understand it, and I really want you to dig into the the research that we know about this is you've put silica into a highly bioavailable and usable form that the body can then do what it needs to do to build more collagen with.
Richard: Now. That's right. The, generally the body only absorbs silicon in the form of ortho [00:33:00] acid. Ortho means one, so it's a single acid molecule. And this is found in nature in mineral water. It's the most prevalent. . And when rain water, it's generally a pH, somewhere between four, 4.3, 4.5, it filters through the sand.
And if it's volcanic sand, it generally has more silicone in it and some of it gets hydrolyzed from the pH, the low pH and it becomes worth AIC acid. So waters like VALIC and Fiji. Generally have the highest amount of orthosilicic acid in it. And and sometimes processed foods that are made from grains that have a lot of silicon caught up in the fibers in the husk.
As an example, beer is one of the biggest sources of orthosilicic acid in the north American diet. And some bone researchers go as far as saying that. It may explain to some degree why. Men have better bones than women cuz they have a higher orthosilicic acid intake cuz they drink more beer.
When they cook they cook the barley and the [00:34:00] silicones in the husk. It's poorly absorbed when you eat it, but when they cook it at a high temperature with the agitation, some of it gets converted into orthosilicic acid. So we basically take that orthosilicic acid.
And we combine it with choline the B vitamin like compound. And it keeps both of them. And it makes it highly absorbable and it's absorbed in everybody. It doesn't need to be digested further by the body. You get real good reproduction when wide range of people take it.
And they have very similar absorption on it. It's easy to study and it was invented at University Antwerp to improve research on orthosilicic acid. And we've sponsored more than 25 years and 20 million of research on it. It's clinically proven to make.
Clinically relevant or meaningful changes to hair, skin, nails, bones, joints and the most recent research is with oral health with gums the jawbone and and getting implants to better incorporate into the gum government, the the jawbone. So it's it's clinically proven to improve [00:35:00] collagen metabolism throughout the body.
I would say 80% of the interest is with skin and hair and nails. But it does support collagen structures throughout the body. And it's one of the real joys working with the product. We sponsor research. It's independently conducted research by university personnel.
We do some of the groundwork showing that it works and showing it's safe and China's. Estimate how it's going to perform so you can properly power or decide how many people you need in the studies form to, to show statistical significance. And, but the actual studies are done by individual, independent research.
Jared: Yeah, that and there are a lot of studies and one of the things that I, of course, people are, I think a little bit leery of when it comes to natural products is, maybe the evidence is more anecdotal than it is studied. And of course Richard, you and I go way back to when there wasn't much real.
The university research on supplements at all back in the sixties and seventies and now we know there's a ton of great research on everything from fish oil [00:36:00] to l arginine to collagen and silicon and all these things. And so one of the things that I love about BioSil, and one of the reasons I'm so confident recommending it to people is because there is a lot of really solid research proving its efficacy.
So can you share with my listeners some of the things that we know and that have been proven in this research in terms of how BioSil can impact the body's ability to improve skin and bone and joint and all these other areas of health?
Richard: Yeah, the study I'm asked about the most was actually the first ever double-blind placebo controlled study that showed something you put in your mouth impacted your appearance. And it was a 20 week study where half the women took a placebo, just had plant fiber in it, and the other half took ACell liquid BioSil that was sprayed onto plant fiber.
It's the same capsules you sell in the store. And they took two a day and they looked the same as the other capsules. And the women taking BioSil reduced the depth of their [00:37:00] fine lines by 19% while the fine lines deepened 11% in the placebo group. So it was a 30% difference over the five months.
And then the skin elasticity, the measurements were. Taken over on the side of the forehead where the crow's feet form they sent shockwaves through the skin wither ter. And the measurements improved in the BioSil group, worsened in the placebo group. It was 89% difference after the five months.
And modern dermatologist believed that the loss of skin elasticity is actually what starts the wrinkling process. So if you can show there's an improvement in elasticity, it's the first step on, like reversing the wrinkling. It's interesting. Collagen is very strong, but it doesn't stretch where elastin stretches a lot and it recoils.
So if you look at skinny jeans, they don't look good on me., they aren't wrinkled. They're about 95% cotton and 5% spandex in the spandex keeps 'em tight on your leg. Which some people that's [00:38:00] a good thing, mean not so much. But in the skin it's the same. Where collagen serves the role as cotton, giving the thickness and the strength and the maximum that the skin's gonna stretch is determined by the.
Collagen. But the elastin it pulls back and how tight it's gonna be and how wrinkle free it's going to be. So when the elastin breaks down it doesn't recoil back. And so you have a regular pair of jeans. They have the same thickness as a pair of skinny jeans.
But it doesn't fit the leg very tight and it generally is more wrinkled. As you lose elastin in the skin the collagen just expands and becomes looser. And then as the collagen starts to decrease the micro relief deepens and becomes fine lines, and then they deepen and become more noticeable wrinkles.
But they used to think it was just the loss of the collagen volume, but now they think that it's really the loss of the elasticity that's triggering the problem. And so they're looking for elasticity changes first, and that's what we clearly saw in this study, there was a very dynamic change in improvement in [00:39:00] elasticity and a significant improvement in the depth of the wrinkles. It really showed that the product was working on a, a variety of levels.
Jared: Yeah, that's really fascinating. I hadn't understood that elastin aspect of it, but it makes perfect sense and I love the analogy cuz it's real easy to see what you're talking about when it comes to the skinny jeans. So the elastin aspects I think that's important too, to shine a little bit of light on that because we talked about the things that you can do to support collagen production in the body.
We talked about the things you can do to prevent collagen loss, but apparently when we take collagen as a supplement or we take protein that can then eventually become collagen in the body. Maybe that's part of the job. But it sounds like the ortho, I'll never say this right, orthosilicic acid.
Am I saying that right?
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_richard_passwater_jr-71ishb7nf_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: That's perfect.
vitality-radio_v-richard-passwater-biosil_jared_st__clair-xta7zwm1b_2023-feb-21-1650pm-utc-riverside: So the ossa there that's in the bios sill bonded to the colon is also we believe then making elastin not just collagen or supporting the production of Elastin.[00:40:00]
Richard: Yes. There lastin has a very different structure to it. The the way the fibers are put together is quite different. But at the end of the day, . The elastin and collagen are more similar than they are different. They're the only two tissues in the body that contain hydroxyproline.
They're both made by fibroblast cells, and they need the same enzymes many of the same enzymes to make collagen and elastin. The template that's followed in the way the enzymes link the little pieces together is different. Very different. And the end result is two radically different structures.
But when you look at their core components they're more similar than they are different. BioSil can increase the production of both and protect both collagens. A little bit more dynamic we think, than elastin, but both of them are being lost and made all throughout somebody's lifetime.
And BioSil helps both sides of the equation. And it's never too late to to start. The best day to start was yesterday. The second best [00:41:00] day is tomorrow. And in the old days, , there wasn't even a test to test for elastin. They looked for hydroxyproline, and then they said it was all collagen.
It's really an overlooked and underappreciated protein in the body. But now you can stain them with different dyes. And then you have to measure the total and based on the color try to estimate and then subtract out the elastin. And generally people, the skin's about generally 75% in a healthy person collagen, and about 5% elastin.
As people develop less youthful skin, that elastin level may decrease into the three. 2% range. Sometimes you'll find people with more elastin in the skin. But when I give a figure greater than 5%, there's somebody,
a nice, conservative public health at bay.
Jared: And that's interesting because like you said, with the jeans, I love that analogy. I'm gonna have to borrow that from you. But a pair of skinny jeans a pair of, yoga pants, a pair of socks, generally [00:42:00] speaking, gonna have a very small percentage of spandex in there or Lyra or whatever they're using as the stretchy component of the material.
But that small percentage is really critical. Without it, they don't And they don't bounce back, like you said. So a little bit of elastin. Essentially goes a long ways. So we're running real short on time here, but I want to hit a couple more things before I let you go. I'm very curious about that.
There are, I would say there's three main things that most people think about with collagen. And as you've said and I've certainly witnessed this myself, most people are thinking hair, skin, and nails particularly skin as a biggie. And of course it is a big thing that people are concerned about.
But we also think about joints when we think about collagen and joint health. And we think, I think a lot about gut health too. A lot of people talking about that. What do we know about BioSil in those two areas before I let you go?
Richard: Joint health, there is a a wonderful study. It was a 12 week study on men and the men had moderate to moderately severe joint discomfort. It was grade three generally. And they took either [00:43:00] or placebo two capsules a day, the same ones you have in your store and for 12 weeks.
And participants were given a womack, it's a Western Ontario and masters arthritis criterium, a gold stand to gauge health. Somebody's knee health and they use it for hip health. Some studies is impacting their life. There's I think five questions for. And BioSil reduced pain, 48%.
It was about 27% better than the placebo group. There's three questions. I think about range of motion. BioSil increased the range of motion 35% better than the placebo. And there's 17 questions about the difficulty doing daily tasks. These are not tasks that guys are gonna brag about at the bar, trying to impress women or each other, but they're very utilitarian type things like putting on socks in the morning, going downstairs, getting out of a car, getting out of a bathtub push going shopping.
Just basic tasks that if you're in pain, it's gonna impact your life. Why? So reduce the difficulty doing those tasks. I think it was 26 or [00:44:00] 27% better than the placebo group. And in a 12 week period, the researchers also looked at two markers of cartilage breakdown the CTX two, which is a marker of type two collagen breakdown and comp, which is the non collagen component.
Cartilage Bio put the the turnover of collagen back into a more normal range than they, it was quite elevated at the start of the study. The people were losing a lot more than they were making. Their collagen was clearly deteriorating. And I think the reason it worked so fast was the fluid in the knee the synovial fluid.
Is hyaluronic acid based. It's about 70% hyaluronic acid. And the orthosilicic acid can link together the hyaluronic acid polymers to improve the structure so it better cushions the joint, and more importantly, it better transports nutrients to the chondrocytes. So the chondrocytes can get the oxygen and the the nutrients it needs to better repair and remodel the cartilage.
They don't have blood flow. There was chotes. They need to get the nutrients through that fluid, and the better [00:45:00] condition the fluid is, the better the chotes function. I think that's why it worked. So quickly. It's not an area that we have studied so far.
The most recent study had to do there were two studies that were done concurrently. One was in people with a condition called peri implantitis. It's a. that occurs in certain number of individuals that have dental implants. Dental implant has a screw, and you put in the in the, and to grow into the, it's a spectrum.
And there's a debate on what is peri implantitis. Sometimes you'll see a number as low as 5%, and you'll see a number as high as 30%. And it depends on what definition is used. So I'm gonna use a like a more aggressive definition, say it happens in 30% of the cases. And , the gum and the the bone don't grow into the implant very well.
And some people it actually forms a capsule and the body tries to push it out. And in this study the participants took two BioSil capsules for one year. And actually the gum grew back. I got telling [00:46:00] story and, forgot the figures.
It was 61% better improvement in the group taking BioSil compared to the placebo for the receding gums. The gum actually grew back 7% and the bone loss stabilized. The placebo group lost 21% where the B bio group was 19% better than that. And it Really showed that it improved the collagen metabolism in the gum.
And at the same time, a different group of researchers looked at receding gums and these were much healthier people that it was more of a people with peritonitis, just receding gums. It's very common as people age. And the deeper pockets improved and the most improvement was in the shallow pockets. The depth on probing and the bleeding on probing was significantly reduced in the group taking bios and just a six month period, you saw good results in three months and excellent results in six months. So that was the newest study. The results on that one were presented at the greater New York dental Academy.
And the the implantitis studies was [00:47:00] published in bmc oral Health. Those are the, the two most recent published ones. The the most recent finished study was on skin, was a group of women that took BioSil and a vizi scanner. Looked at eight parameters over 90 days.
And all the women improved at least one parameter in the average woman improved in four parameters in 90 days. There was also another very recent study on postmenopausal women with brittle nails. And it's very common position condition affects 20% of the US population and 40% of postmenopausal women.
All the women in this study had brittle nails. The women in bios group took two BioSil capsules for six months and a hundred percent of the BioSil group improved. 56%. Hadn't completely normal nails at the end of the study. And the other 44% had much improved nails.
At the end of the study 30% of the women had splits along the nails or cracks, and none of the women had cracks. At the end of the studies the ridges improved in [00:48:00] 70%. I normalized completely in 70 of the, that had ridges. It was quite interesting. Six.
Jared: Yeah, for and of course people need to recognize that this is a process, right? We're literally building tissue here, whether it's your nails, your skin your hair or the gums in the mouth. And so it does take a little bit of time, the studies that you're siding are anywhere from three months to six months, which is not that long of a time to see a really substantial improvement and benefit, which I think is incredibly impressive because again, it's a process to just get that stuff to grow.
Anybody that thinks about their fingernails and how they grow and how often you have to clip your nails and things like that. One of the things that's funny, I hear from. Customers at Vitality fairly regularly. When I sell biosys. I've never had to cut my nails so often, right? They notice they're growing a lot faster, but also a lot thicker without the ridges, without the cracks, the peeling and all that kind of stuff.
And it's funny too because a lot of people take BioSil specifically for nails. lot of [00:49:00] people take specific, specifically for joints or for skin, but one of the things that I think I always hear pretty much across the board it seems is when they were taking it for some other purpose, they come back and say, I can't believe what it's done for my nails.
We hear that all the time, which is really interesting. So we've gone way over time here, Richard. And what I'm gonna do, this is a radio show locally, which where I am on a time limit, but it's also a podcast where I have a little more flexibility. So we'll cut this up just a little bit. We'll get the full show out to the podcast community and we'll get almost all of the show out to the radio community.
So if you're on radio you'll hear things cut up just a little bit more. And if you wanna hear. Every word of the conversation jump on Vitality Radio podcast on your podcast app and you can listen there. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners since we are over time anyway?
Give you a couple more minutes if there's anything else that you think people need to know about BioSil and what it can do for the body.
Richard: I'd like to stress that collagen and elastin are dynamic tissues that are constantly remodeling in the [00:50:00] body. You need to make about one pound every five days and it's never too late. To take an active role in that bio seal is a wonderful solution. Cause it helps. On both ends of the equation, it helps protect the collagen and elastin keratin you have, and it helps make your body make new collagen, elastin, and keratin to better repair itself.
And it can be whether a standalone product or a core to your beauty or joint or bone health stack it's something that can make a meaningful change in your life. I encourage you to talk to Jared and his team or read more about bios on our bios website. Or go to PubMed gov read nih database that contains a variety of studies on C h os A.
That's kinda the trademark term for choline, stabilized orthosilicic acid. They can search it for there. And and thank you for the time and the privilege and honor to participate on your program today. And thank making fun for me. I something every time I one your program,[00:51:00]
your fun. Thank you.
Jared: Thank you Richard and I the feelings Mutual was a great conversation. I'd love to have a one in the future and maybe even go a little bit deeper on this topic cuz it's clear that you have no shortage of information to share. So let's just wrap this up by saying a few things that I'd like to do to maybe tighten up the information because one of the things that I know you're listening right now and you're saying, okay, so I just learned all this.
Now what so let's talk about that just real briefly and then we'll finish this up. First off we touched on a few things that I think are really important. We need to make sure we're getting enough protein, that we're eating good, clean sources of protein optimally. And this is all coming from my point of view, but I would anticipate Richard probably agrees here clean, organic sources of protein that we're getting enough in our diets as far as that goes, that we are covering the basic base of nutrition.
Vitamin C is important. You mentioned copper, of course, we talked about amino acids, and of course the silica which we [00:52:00] know if it's in a food source or a water source in the ortho. salic acid, I think I'm saying that the ossa that's in you mentioned Fiji water and VVC water being options that have a high level of naturally occurring silica that is bioavailable, that can be a useful tool.
And of course, BioSil can be useful. So we have to cover the bases. We need to watch our stress levels and do things that we can to reduce our cortisol. Again, breath work, a lot of things like that. I am going to do a follow up show, and I'll do this solo but we'll talk a little bit more about homocystine and the glycation and the stress and some of these things that we can do that are preventative and of course adding.
I, I love what you said, Richard, about, it can be a. A solo nutrient the C H O S A and it will do great things because the studies that you've done on BioSil were done on just BioSil versus a p placebo. But if we then add the vitamin C and we add the copper and we add the zinc and we add the [00:53:00] collagen and the protein and these things, then we can only anticipate even better results and probably quicker results.
And so these are the things that you want look at because we're always talking holistically when it comes to the human body. We have to look at the full approach of what makes us healthier, what causes us to break down, and what causes our body to build itself back up. And when we do this as a team effort, of course, we're always going to get the best results in the show.
On the show description, we'll have links to some of the articles on PubMed. We'll link to the biosil.beauty site. We'll and I'll even list some of these other things that we've talked about so that you can thumb through those, the show description and make sure that you've got a clear understanding of what we've discussed, cuz there's been a lot of technical information shared, but really important stuff.
Richard Passwater, thank you so much for your time on Vitality Radio. I appreciate it very much joining us all the way from Turkey in a uh, in a hotel [00:54:00] lobby. Very much appreciate your time and your education on this topic.
Richard: Thank you Jared. I really appreciate the opportunity and thank you.
Jared: All right, and for you listening, I hope this has been a great show for you. If you like what you hear, go tell somebody. Share this episode of Vitality Radio. If you have questions about anything that you've heard, you can call us at (801) 292-6662. That's 8 0 1 2 9 2 66 62 or jump on our website, vitality nutrition.com.
You can find BioSil there, which will also be linked in the show description, and you can open up a chat if you have questions at vitality nutrition.com. Thank you so much for listening to me. I'm Jared St. Clair, and this has been another episode of Vitality Radio.