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What happens when life puts obstacles in your way that you just have to tackle? Turns out three Rugby League icons might be able to help.
Making it in elite sport, staring down the competition, overcoming challenges in the game and in life after rugby, Adrian Morley, Shaun Lunt, and Barrie McDermott know what it takes to keep moving forward. From the highs of big wins to the tough calls of retirement, Changing Rooms is about what happens when the final whistle blows — and how lessons from Rugby League translate into resilience, growth, and finding a new path.
The conversations are raw and no-filter — stories of comebacks, transitions, and big turning points that show what it really takes to adapt when everything changes. They’re perfect for young people facing life transitions from education to work, fans of sport seeking insight beyond the game, or anyone navigating career or personal change.
Join us as we swap stories from the pitch and beyond, and share the lessons, laughs, and honest truths that can help you figure out your own next move. Whether you’re looking for resilience strategies or just some inspiration from people who’ve been there, you’ll get insights that reach further than the game — from the Changing Rooms Squad.
About the Hosts
Adrian Morley
Adrian was never just tough — he was one of the most feared forwards in Rugby League, the first British player to win both NRL (National Rugby League) and Super League titles, and a leader who thrived in the biggest moments. After years at the very top, he knows what it means to push through pressure, face down setbacks, and then figure out who you are when the roar of the crowd fades.
Shaun Lunt
Shaun’s career had it all — Grand Final wins, England caps, and the highs and lows of playing for some of the biggest clubs in the game. But he’s also been brutally honest about injuries, mental health, and the personal battles that shaped him. Now, he brings that same openness to coaching and mentoring, offering lessons on resilience and reinvention that hit home well beyond sport.
Barrie McDermott
Barrie built his reputation as one of Rugby League’s fiercest enforcers, a no-nonsense presence for Leeds Rhinos and Great Britain. Since hanging up his boots, he’s carved out a second career in broadcasting, combining sharp analysis with the same humour and straight talk he was known for on the pitch. Barrie’s story is about toughness, loyalty, and how to evolve when one chapter ends and another begins.
Barrie McDermott:
Welcome to Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect. Where a few of us ex-pros bring you stories from the pitch and beyond. I'm Barrie McDermott, and I will be joined every week by Adrian Morley and Shaun Lunt. Legends, mates and proof that life after rugby is full of lessons, laughs and the odd knock-on along the way. Together we talk about challenges, change and what keeps us moving forward on the field, at work, and in life. So let's get stuck in.
So here we are. First podcast episode one. Have you ever done a podcast before, Moz? Veteran, aren't you?
Adrian Morley:
No, I've done a couple. Did one down under with James Graham. Did one with Kyle Amor, but I've only done a couple, so I'm excited.
Shaun Lunt:
I've only ever done the one with Stevie Ward and Mentality. And that was a couple of years ago.
Barrie McDermott:
So just to get it out of the way. Adrian Morley, nickname Moz.
Adrian Morley:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
You haven't had any other nicknames have you?
Adrian Morley:
Not that I can repeat on the podcast there. But yeah, Adrian Morley, Moz, that was me nickname.
Barrie McDermott:
Shaun Lunt. Lunty.
Shaun Lunt:
Yes, well, obviously you don't need to be a rocket science to think what rhymes with Lunt.
Barrie McDermott:
Have you ever had a nickname?
Shaun Lunt:
Well, I have, yes. I got called meathead as a kid.
Barrie McDermott:
Why?
Shaun Lunt:
Because I had a big head and then it got abbreviated to meaty. So still my mum, when I'm ringing, my mum will go, "Hi, Meaty, you okay?" And stuff like that. So yeah, that stuck with me, but thankfully-
Barrie McDermott:
That's an engrained nickname when your mum's calling.
Shaun Lunt:
It is, yeah.
Adrian Morley:
What about you, Baz?
Barrie McDermott:
Well, I'm Barry. I've always had a shortened version of a name. But I did have a nickname, I have many nicknames that I don't like.
Shaun Lunt:
Is that from opposition fans?
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, I didn't like them, but I think the one that I quite warmed to was given to me by Gary Mercer when we played here in your time, Moz. He's called me Barrie Bike Rack. He reckoned if I lay down on my front, I have a big backside. I've still got a big backside.
Shaun Lunt:
A big bun then.
Barrie McDermott:
You could park your bike in the groove. I didn't mind that one. Yeah, I didn't mind that one. But we're here. The podcast is called Changing Rooms. We're talking about leaving the boot room, the changing room, and transitioning into another room; a boardroom or a meeting room or any kind of working environment. But this was once our working environment, Headingley. It's good to be back here.
Adrian Morley:
It is good to be back here. It's changed a bit since I was here, but the facilities are fantastic and holds many special memories.
Barrie McDermott:
You too as well, Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, I was very fortunate to, obviously, I was a bit different to you guys where yous were a permanent player here, where I came on two stints of a loan deal. And I've been made to feel welcomed. It's probably one of the best clubs that I've been fortunate to play at, so it's always good to come back here and I've always felt welcomed.
Barrie McDermott:
Our first show, we're going to be diving into what comes at the end usually, and that's retirement and transition. Happens to everyone. I want to start with you Moz, because you retired into your late-30s. Were you 37, 38?
Adrian Morley:
38, yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
When did you know it was time to retire?
Adrian Morley:
So I knew that season. I knew me, my performances were dipping, I was still holding the place down, but I knew I wasn't having the same impact on games anymore as I used to. I used to be able to get the game by the scruff of the neck, some big hits, some big, big runs. And it does have an effect, when you used to being really above average. And so I was 99% made up I was going to retire, and then we signed Oliver Gildart on loan from Wigan. And I used to play against his dad. Anyway, but then I was just here in Wigan, he was given the details to the guy who does the programs and he give his date of birth and he wasn't even born when I made me debut for Leeds. So I just thought, better at me age now and retire.
But it was nice in the fact that I was going to retire that year anyway, but the coach, Ian Watson, he come up to me about a month before retired and said, "What you doing next year, Moz?" When I said, "I'm going to retire." He said, "If you do, great, you've had a good career, go with our blessings. However, I want you to carry on next year." Because he said, "You're still a positive influence around the place, you're still holding your position, you're still fit enough." And it was a nice moment because even though I still retired, it's nice to know that the coach wants you rather than saying, "Your contract's up, there's the door, see you later." It's nice to know if I didn't retire I would've potentially had another contract there.
Barrie McDermott:
And sometimes it is a sharp exit. Lunty, what was your circumstances?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, so for me it was around COVID actually. So I'd spent 10 games back end of the 2019 season back here at Leeds. I'd an illness called sepsis, which sort of rocked me. That took everything from me in terms of my playing ability. So I knew I wasn't at the standard that I needed to be. I dropped down to League one with Batley and then COVID hit. So for me, I was quite lucky because again, when a lot of people retire, it's that next day everyone else is still playing rugby. But for me, it was a national hold on rugby, nobody could play. So for me, it was a bit-
Barrie McDermott:
So you didn't miss it?
Shaun Lunt:
No, so I didn't miss it. And to be fair, when I was coming back from the injury of sepsis, my head wasn't there. I wasn't there mentally. So I was actually looking for a way out of rugby. So it sort of gave me a little back door out of rugby. A bit like when I'm on a night out in pub, through the back door and I'm gone. So a bit like what I did to rugby league, to be fair. It was good. I sort of stepped out the back door and never played again.
Barrie McDermott:
You say that though, because a lot of people don't realize that it's not just you, is it? It's not just the player, it's the backroom staff, it's your mum, your dad, your wife, your kids. You're going to have to sit down with them all and say, "Look, I'm not feeling it anymore." How did that conversation go for you?
Shaun Lunt:
So for me, I don't have a lot of family around me. I've always, obviously, I'm from Cumbria, so my brother lived in Australia and my dad lived in the Isle of Man. So there was only myself, Grace and my two boys. I think they were actually glad because I was getting to the point where I had to play on painkillers, painkilling injections. And then they could... Obviously, you can't see it, but when you are in it, they see everything that you're going through. After the loss, you're down, you're grumpy, you're having to go at everyone for no reason at all. So I think my wife was really pleased that I hung my boots up because I'd been through such an arduous ordeal with the sepsis, I think there was more relief than anything.
Barrie McDermott:
Before I get to you with the family bit, that ability to understand where you are mentally, your body, your body's not right, you're not going up for it, but there's an added level of stress when you get into the backend of your career. And it's that, am I going to get selected?
Shaun Lunt:
Exactly.
Barrie McDermott:
Am I going to get picked? And it's awful, isn't it? The worst thing in the world is coming home to the family and saying, "I'm sorry I've ruined your weekend. I've not been picked this week."
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, because everything is around rugby. As a rugby player, you live... Your weekends are your Mondays and your Tuesdays, you can't go out a drinking on a Saturday if you're playing on the Sunday. It is that, and not being around other people, being in the same household with everyone that you're seeing day-in, day-out. It is a massive mental weight on your shoulders.
Barrie McDermott:
And, Moz, Salford was your last club, so you'd have had every man and his dog asking you every week for tickets. What was it like when you had to tell everyone that, "That's it, I'm done"?
Adrian Morley:
No, it was a relief really because I played for more than 20 years as an international. And when I wanted to retire, my final game was at Hull KR actually, final ever club game. And then I remember the bus ride home, it's a couple of hours to Hull, and a few beers. But I was just sat there-
Barrie McDermott:
A few?
Adrian Morley:
A few beers.
Shaun Lunt:
A few too many.
Barrie McDermott:
You've never had a few.
Adrian Morley:
No, no, I was sat with Weller Hauraki actually I got on great with him.
Barrie McDermott:
Nice guy, Weller.
Adrian Morley:
He just kept passing me the beer. Had me lad, Leo, on me lap. He was about seven or eight, but I was dead emotional, just had me a-
Barrie McDermott:
Why, why were you emotional?
Adrian Morley:
Well, I just had my third kiddie week or two before that. But at the end of the game, virtually all the Salford fans stayed behind and a lot of the Hull KR fans singing, "There's only one Adrian Morley." And it was lovely. It was really nice way to finish. But just coming back on the coach, I was, I don't mind admitting it, I was crying. I was happy thinking about the career. I was sad because I knew it had finished, but I was content. So them two hours, having a beer with the Salford guys, was a nice way to finish.
Barrie McDermott:
So just share what the next couple of weeks had in store for you? Because typically at the end of the season, both of you would've a break, go on holiday and then really quickly after a couple of weeks you're thinking, right, I need to get back going now to make sure I hit pre-season. What were the next few weeks like, Moz? Hazy?
Adrian Morley:
Very, very different. Well, because we had the newborn in the house, it wasn't... Not as rock and roll as you would've thought. My wife actually got poorly, she got pre-eclampsia. So it was tough. But when you do finish the normal season, you've got a month where you don't really have to train if you don't want. In fact, they actually tell you not to train just to help your body.
Barrie McDermott:
They didn't do that with me, Moz.
Adrian Morley:
Help your body recover and... Well, you've got a different metabolism to myself. But they tell you not to do anything, let your body recover. And I was doing that. But then I knew in four weeks time I'd have to go back to training. So it was strange. What was a relief to myself, I said, "Right, I've trained all my life, 20 odd years, I'm going to abstain now." And I took about three or four months off with a baby, didn't do any training. And I thought, I've earned this, I deserve this. But then I felt absolutely terrible that I'd put weight on, and I just felt sluggish.
And then as soon as I started going back to the gym, my mood brightened up and everything else. So it did have an effect, because I thought, why have I done that? Because I used to love the physical side. I used to love training when I was a professional. I thought, why have I suddenly stopped that now? But just my mentality at the time, maybe I had to get it out of my system. But soon as I started training again, got into a routine and felt miles better in myself.
Barrie McDermott:
And Lunty, try not to think about your regime now in terms of how you look after yourself. What were you like those first couple of weeks or months? Because you finished... Batley would be a part-time basis?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
Were you part-time? What were you doing for a job?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, part-time. So I was doing resin flooring at the time. And again, going back to COVID, so that all stopped. So probably about six months after retiring, I played on a game called Call of Duty. And I was literally, I got addicted to it. I really did. I've got a very addictive personality, so I literally, you'd have a headset on, you'd have people from all over the country. I'd have all my mates back home in Cumbria, and we literally used to get on there about eight o'clock, play Call of Duty, go for some food, play Call of Duty, and I'll be on there till about three o'clock in the morning. My wife was not happy. We can laugh about it now.
Barrie McDermott:
And why do you think that was, by the way?
Shaun Lunt:
Well, probably looking back now, probably filling a void. I was bored.
Barrie McDermott:
So you've swapped the pitch for-
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, swapped the pitch for that.
Barrie McDermott:
For a headset.
Shaun Lunt:
I'm part of the team. I'm playing games, banter on the mics. And yeah, I was replacing that I get up and do something. I just replaced it with gaming. And yeah, that turned me into a slob. Put on weight, like Moz was just saying there, felt awful. And then got to 108 kgs and then realized that I had to sort myself out and me wife sorted me out with job in childcare and said, "Right, you go do that or I'm leaving."
Barrie McDermott:
And did either of you, at the point where you've started to put the former career behind you, did you feel like you were missing out? You get to a game or watch it on TV or come across your mates and think, actually I wish I were back there?
Adrian Morley:
No, the only time I missed it was... I was involved at Salford on the commercial side. The only time I missed playing was on game day when I'd have something to do in the changing room. I'd go in, and you could smell the atmosphere and the tension and I'd go in and my heart started going like that. I thought, oh, dear. I'd have to calm myself down, thinking, it's not my job that now. I'll leave it to these youngsters. But the only time I missed it.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, just going on that. If you're retired too early, you've still got that itch that you want to scratch, don't you?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
And what age were you, 31?
Shaun Lunt:
I was 32.
Barrie McDermott:
32.
Shaun Lunt:
32.
Barrie McDermott:
You were 37?
Shaun Lunt:
38.
Barrie McDermott:
38, sorry. Yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
What about you?
Barrie McDermott:
34, I was. I was absolutely shot to bits, strapped up, injections. My body had let me down, but I still thought I could do a bit more until I'd made the decision, or had it made for me. I did my last year here and then did a short three or four-month block with Widnes. I still thought it was all right until I stopped. And then, not the adrenaline, because the adrenaline only spikes for so long, but whilst you're used to managing pain, being in pain, compensating. Once I'd got over the fact that I didn't have to mentally and emotionally get myself ready for the weekend, it's like, yeah, I probably needed to stop anyway.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
But they reckon, don't you, you're the last one to know, aren't you?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
You're the last one to realize.
Shaun Lunt:
Everyone can see. [inaudible 00:13:39]. A lot of people, well, certainly for me, I was only playing for the money. I didn't have anything else to fall back on. So I was thinking, I'm retiring, I've got two kids, I've got a wife, I've got to provide for, I've got bills to pay. That's why I was playing. Like I said, I've never missed a game in playing because again, that's what I didn't miss is the soreness, waking up after the game day.
Barrie McDermott:
I do.
Shaun Lunt:
The sleepless nights.
Barrie McDermott:
I still miss that now.
Shaun Lunt:
No, it's probably why I look a lot better than you do, mate. That's why. It's the stout. The stout and all that.
Barrie McDermott:
We'll have a teeth competition, shall we?
Shaun Lunt:
I think I've already won that.
Barrie McDermott:
Because Moz will lose, hands-down.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly.
Barrie McDermott:
There's two avenues I want to explore. One is the identity, as in, both of you would've been Adrian or Shaun, the rugby player. And then that loss of identity would align to that, is the loss of structure. So being told what to do, what to wear, what time to be there, and having your full week mapped out. And for lads who grew up in a northern house and a working class mentality, you're free then at weekends when you've denied yourself the chance to go out with your mates and have a drink and enjoy what life and socializing is about. And then suddenly to be let off the lead, Moz. What was that like? So again, there's a couple of things there. So the loss of structure, the loss of identity, and then where was your mentality and discipline within that?
Adrian Morley:
Well, we go back a long way, Baz, as a youngster, I used to love going out and that was my thing. But coincided with having kids, my wild days were gone really. So at this point when I retired, I've got three kids and I still used to like a drink, but they were few and far between then.
Barrie McDermott:
So you thought to yourself instead of, that's it, I'm off. I'm like a dog off a lead. I'm just going to dedicate myself to the rhythm of the home and the kids?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, luckily I was still employed in Rugby League, although not playing. So I was quite happy to go about my business, but family took over me. That was my focus really. I remember the first year I weren't playing, we booked to go away at Easter. I'd never been away Easter in my life, and I just couldn't believe it. I was like, wow, it's a fantastic life being a professional Rugby League player, but you'd have to sacrifice a lot, and you do... There's certain things you can't do, which the normal man just takes for granted. So I was happy to be on civvy street and just live a normal life.
Barrie McDermott:
Loss of structure, loss of identity, was something that affected you?
Shaun Lunt:
So for me, for the structure I thought I wanted... I was looking forward to not having the structure thinking that I needed it. But as you all know, being in that rugby circle, you sort of become institutionalized to rugby, and all you know is rugby. And then when I saw, like you were saying about that, I was let off the leash and I didn't have nobody telling me what to do, what time I was there, that's when my head imploded. Because I didn't have to be anywhere at a certain time, I didn't have no one telling me what to do.
And I was like, all of a sudden I'm a grown man and I've got to make my own decisions now. And that was probably the hardest part because again, when you're in a rugby team, you've got people around you, people are making the decisions for you. So you can sort of take the coward way out and say, "Well, that was wrong because you made that decision." But when it's your own and you've got the autonomy of it all on yourself, that's when it plays on you. That stress starts to play on you. So for me, I need structure in my life, I still need it today. And it's implementing that structure in my life.
And the identity, and I'm not just saying it, but for me, I don't look at myself as I was a big star. I always admired like, Moz, yourself, Keiron Cunningham [inaudible 00:17:18]. In my eyes, they're the ones that are the superstars. And for me, I was just that little kid from Cockermouth that used to be a plumber that managed to achieve all of his dreams, and very fortunate. So for me, I never looked at myself as that the identity... So the identity didn't bother me, but it was that structure of getting up doing stuff.
Barrie McDermott:
I want to just talk about transition now. So I always describe it as snakes and ladders, but I have to be careful because the kids look at you and go, "What are snakes and ladders?" You're going up high, you're getting to the top of your tree. As in, you were an exceptional rugby league player, good professional, somebody who was valued in the changing rooms, to the bottom. You go down a snake and then you're in civvy street and you've got a couple of different choices, haven't you? You've got to educate yourself, which means you've got to ask, which isn't always easy for us. Or you just go and do a manual-laboring job that gets paid whatever, 12 quid an hour, and everybody sees that as a failure. Which route did you take?
Shaun Lunt:
Like I said before, the wife, going through COVID, because I was playing games all the time and she said, "You're getting a job." So her brother was working in childcare at the time, and there was an opening as a night worker. So I worked through the night. So I took that, and it was absolutely brilliant. That got me back on track. I was working with kids that are vulnerable kids, they didn't have no structure. So again, I took what I've learned in rugby, good morals, a good positive outlook, and I started channeling into them and working with those guys. So I went into the child care industry for probably about two year after I played. And I learned a lot about, obviously, a lot about working with vulnerable kids. But also a lot about myself as well and just how much I'd sort of struggled throughout the years.
Barrie McDermott:
What was the biggest challenge for you, do you reckon?
Shaun Lunt:
For me, it was getting to know myself. I was hiding behind that rugby player for so long, and then all of a sudden I'm not a rugby player and then I'm learning about all these kids and I'm like, wow, I've doing this, I've been doing that. And you sort of getting to know yourself. And again... Talking about that reeducation, is that I had to re-educate myself and doing something new. I was taking that diplomas and stuff like that that I never got taught about. So it was a really tough one. And again, in a world full of people, it's a lonely place at times. I didn't have anyone to turn to. It was just myself.
Barrie McDermott:
It's quite intimidating going back into a classroom, people are listening to this and think you've got X amount of Super League games, you've got all these things that you've done and you've seen and you've achieved. But scary going back into a classroom, what were you like, Moz?
Adrian Morley:
Well, I was quite fortunate that I got a chance to stay in Rugby League. Not every player gets asked to stay, and there's not that many jobs at all. It's not a huge sport. But I stayed at Salford Red Devils, in me home town on the commercial side now, it wasn't something I thought I'd go into and I am glad I did it. Everything I've done post-playing, I've learned something from it, and I've tried to better myself. And then I coached down here at the Rhinos, coached the academy.
Barrie McDermott:
Brian McDermott, was that?
Adrian Morley:
Yes, coaching wasn't something I was ever aspired to be, but when I got an opportunity I thought I'll try it. And I did, and there were certain parts of it I really enjoyed. So I did that for a year and then I was a bit of a loose end really. I didn't want to coach. I didn't want to be involved in rugby really in many capacities. But then my best mate, he was running his recruitment company at the time, and he asked me did I want to get involved. He just said, with your profile as an ex-rugby player, think you'd be good at business development. So I tried that. And again, really enjoyed it. But being in an office environment, because I'd never worked in that before, it was exciting. And I was like, yeah, I'm working in an office. But yeah, it was good. It was different from what I was used to, but something I quite enjoyed.
Barrie McDermott:
I'm going to ask you last sort of question on this topic. What were the three things that you learned as a professional sportsman that you took into civvy street? You still have it in your repertoire now that you think were the most helpful?
Shaun Lunt:
For me was, again, it's probably my morals, what I live by. I think Rugby League's one of the, well, the toughest sport in the world. And I think if you can go out there and knockout each other for 80 minutes and shake someone's hand after the game and say, "Well done." And then you get on with it. So integrity is massive, my resilience going forward. Again, there's times where like I say, I'm playing in the middle against you big boppers in the middle and you just relentless running at you, and you just got to keep going no matter what, you got to keep going.
Barrie McDermott:
Just by the way, when you go like that, just be clear that you never played against me. That's why your nose is like that.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
And you've got no gaps in your teeth. But anyway, no, I get it.
Shaun Lunt:
That's because I went to Turkey, that, mate. That's why I've got no gaps in my teeth. Well, I ran at him plenty of times, and I went round him, that's why.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, you've been to Turkey?
Adrian Morley:
No, no. Natural, these ones, aren't they?
Barrie McDermott:
Three things. So I'll get your three before I give you mine.
Adrian Morley:
Probably just one thing really. And that's there's no substitute for hard work. So, as a player, I knew I wasn't the most gifted, weren't great at passing of the ball, kicking of the ball, but I knew what I was good at and that was the bashing the badge. How can I be a great or a better player? So it was to be as fit as I possibly can, strong as I possibly can, as big as I possibly can. So if you do that as a professional, do that in your day job, it'll take you far.
Barrie McDermott:
I think I've got three things, and you might agree with these, you might not. I've got a complete lack of fear of failure. And I think that comes down to whenever I trained, I would often train with the best player. So if it was an agility, I'd grab Rob Burrow. If it was a strength session, I'd get big Wayne McDonald. If it was a skills session or something that was added on, I'd spend time with Kev because he had that discipline to do it. Boxing, Dave [inaudible 00:23:36], I would literally go with the best at that. So I like failing to learn. I've got good time keeping, aren't I? You know that. For somebody with lots of things, I like to rest in position. And I think it comes from, "Get back where you're supposed to be and then decide what you're doing." So I'm always, "Get where you're supposed to be, then figure out what you've got to do."
And then the last thing is I can take criticism. If I'm in the wrong or if somebody says, "Do you know what? I think I've got a better way." I'd accept that. What I found is when I offered that out in civvy street, it wasn't always accepted because if you point out what people are no good at-
Adrian Morley:
They in the wrong.
Barrie McDermott:
They're not really interested, are they?
Adrian Morley:
Right.
Barrie McDermott:
So them the three things I like to sort of just dwindle down and go right, if I can stick to them, then there isn't much that phases me.
So some really good stuff there lads. Think we're going to come back, get you bits of advice for the audience, but it's time for a bit of fun. I thought we could talk about your most memorable game. Start with you, Moz.
Adrian Morley:
Well, I've been fortunate enough to play in quite a few finals for my club sides, but for me, I think it's very special when you represent your country, whether that be England or Great Britain, it's always magical when you're lining up with 17 of the best players in the country and you sing the national anthem, it's pretty special. So it was down under when we played the Aussies, 2006, in the Tri-Nation. And it was against the Aussies. No one gives a chance. And we went out there and we won a famous victory against the star-studded Kangaroos. Me club coach, Ricky Stuart, he was the coach in the Kangaroos at the time. So it made it extra special.
And it was when Willie Mason had the infamous incident when he punched Stuart Fielden and then Jamie Peacock ran in and flattened him. But it was everything a test match should be, it was brutal. You couldn't get away with a lot of that stuff now.
Barrie McDermott:
Aw.
Adrian Morley:
But yeah, exactly. But it was magical. That's the last time an English side, or Great British side, has beat the Aussies. So it was great to be involved in that.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
For me, I've got three. I'm going to be greedy and go with three. These are really impactful on my career. So we've got the 2009 Challenge Cup final. The year before I was at Workington, saw that the sort of rise from playing in Championship One to then going on the biggest stage of a Challenge Cup final, starting. I can remember walking out, I was actually playing against Moz. And yes, you did win, I know that, I do remember. And yeah, just coming out and all I can describe it was the Gladiator scene when it comes out into the Coliseum. It was a lovely hot day and it was a fantastic game, wasn't it? And I scored, I got one disallowed. So it was the memories, for me individually, for that game was massive.
I can always remember someone telling me, I can't remember who it was, but they said, "It goes like a flash." That week leading up to Wembley going down there, staying down there, enjoying the whole atmosphere. He says, "It's gone like that. Gone in a blink of an eye." So he said, "Take everything in. When you go out, have a look around at the stadium, have a look and absorb everything." And I remember when we were walking out, we were getting let out, and I was just looking up and it was just amazing. It was the atmosphere, getting tingles. And I was just, again, this young boy at the pinnacle of his dream walking out. And yeah, unfortunately we got beat that day. But for me, for where I come from, that was amazing. That Challenge Cup final on TV, everyone watching.
And then obviously the next game, memorable for all different reasons. And it's the million-pound game when we got beat by Salford. So we played Salford at home. We were eight points up.
Barrie McDermott:
You were at Hull KR?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, Hull KR at the time. We were eight points up and there was four minutes left on the clock. And they managed to score in one corner, they scored in the other corner, and they leveled it, y missed both kicks so we went into golden point. And again, just watching Gaz O'Brien... He actually popped up on my feed the other day, him hitting that drop goal. And yeah, remember him just hitting it, hit it so sweet and he hit it that well. He hit it from his own 45 and it's probably landed in the [inaudible 00:27:58]. And then he just, obviously, he's set off running. I'm stood there, everyone's in disbelief looking at each other. I've got my wife crying, kids crying, my brother just looking at me like this. And then you've got fans running on, fighting. And that was pretty much like a movie scene. It was something out of Walking Dead. And again, that was the last game of the season. So then that takes me on to-
Barrie McDermott:
You win this next one.
Shaun Lunt:
Yes. We're always going to finish on a positive, don't worry. So I've gone positive, negative, and then positive. And it was the following year actually. So we were playing Widnes Vikings at home. Again, still at Hull KR. So we spent a year in the championship after getting relegated and we were playing against Widnes. And I could always remember because Gil Dudson had the ball and they were going attacking our line and we were winning by two points. And this time I should have pressured, and I clocked off this time, and he passed the ball out wide and he would've got us where Ryan Shaw intercepted and went full length and scored. And that put the game to bed.
So I went from 12 months previous to absolute out. All the negative emotions, the anguish, the anger, and then just went to total jubilation afterwards. Remember again this time the kids coming on crying in happiness this time. So yeah. So again, them free games have had a real pivotal part on me and why they're the most memorable ones. Yes, I've been very fortunate to win a grand final against Moz.
Barrie McDermott:
When I was thinking about the question, I was thinking I automatically, my brain went, excuse me, to the worst moment. I don't know whether you played in 2003, Moz. You did actually, yes. Did you play in the second game?
Adrian Morley:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
I started-
Adrian Morley:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
There was a set of circumstances, which meant I was one-on-one with Brett Kimmorley. I missed the tackle, scored under the sticks, we lost the second test and it was a disaster. You cost us the first test.
Adrian Morley:
Well, debatable, that was.
Barrie McDermott:
You and Steve Ganson, between you. And then I was around, I was culpable for the second test. So my mind automatically went to that. But you brought up a good point about Great Britain in 1994, very similar to you, I think, Lunty. I was in a team where I was surrounded by people who were the best of the best. My heroes were on both sides. So the lads I was sat alongside and the lads I was sat against. And it was like an out-of-body experience. I was nervous, but that nervous energy just turned into-
Adrian Morley:
Excitement.
Barrie McDermott:
... excitement and determination. I started on the bench, I just wanted to get on the field. I just wanted to rip in.
Shaun Lunt:
How old were you?
Barrie McDermott:
I was 22, I think. Yeah, 22. '94.
Adrian Morley:
Because you come from nowhere. I'll be honest, I'd never heard of Barrie McDermott playing at Oldham. And I thought, who's this guy? Anyway, I was pleased what I saw. He brought a bit of aggression and confrontation to a-
Barrie McDermott:
I didn't have a clue what to do. So Ellery Hanley, who was my coach, Ellery just put his arm around me and he says, "I just need you to be as good as you can be today. Do what you're good at." He said, "When you've got the ball, I want you to get the meters, play your ball quick, make some space and time for people outside you. When they've got the ball, just have some fun, Barrie. Just get stuck in." Which I obliged. [inaudible 00:31:21]. And I enjoyed it, I enjoyed it. And it's funny, so two weeks before I played for Wigan... Very, very, when I look at it now, I don't regret anything, but it was-
Adrian Morley:
Sironen.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. I think I'd got locked up, I'd got sent to jail now, and I've caught him. But I got on the pitch and the first carry I've got, I can see Paul Harragon, Paul Sironen, Glenn Lazarus in front of me. I'm like, there's no hiding here. I'm just going to have to get it out of the way. And I ran as hard as I could and I ended up going through the other side. So my boost was like, I can do this. I'm all right on this arena.
So favorite game, I think yours is a special game. I think yours is a special game. You've got all those memories around it, but inevitably, you mentioned Rob there, there's always a little moment that takes the edge off it. There's always a moment that brings a bit of humor to it. Sometimes it's dark humor. What's your funniest memory?
Shaun Lunt:
Probably like I say, funniest memory was probably more comical than anything. It was actually, again, going back to the 2012 grand final, there was myself, Magsy, Kallum Watkins. We're sat at the coffee shop opposite the hotel where we're staying. It was the morning of the grand final. And we're all just sat there having a talk. And Magsy brought up about this guy that was giving him some stick on Twitter. And I was like, "Is it such and such by any chance?" He was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Oh my God." I said, "I've had the same problem with him." So what happened was, [inaudible 00:32:53], I played against Wigan down here and they were beating us. So I've jumped out, tried to kick the ball over, Brett Finch's caught it and scored. He's giving me a load of crap after it.
So as I do, I'm one for revenge, so I've sat on that. He's hammered me. And then later on in that year, we played Wigan at Huddersfield in the semi-final of the Challenge Cup, and we beat them. So there's me chirping up against him, giving him some crap, and thought I got me own back. All died down. And so these guys beat us in the Challenge Cup final. Again, chirping away. He's got me back. So I was just like, I can't get away from him. And then it was the semi-final of the grand final and we played Wigan at Wigan.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
I can always remember it, because I started at nine because Magsy got banned for that game. And Rob and Kev were six and seven. So we beat them. And I got the phone out, was about to bag him. And I was like, no, I can't do that. No, keep that in your pocket. So put it back in your pocket, forgot about it. And then obviously a week later we played these guys, beat them in the Challenge Cup and sent him a picture with me holding the trophy. And the caption, "He who laughs last, laughs the longest." So that was my little [inaudible 00:34:04].
Barrie McDermott:
Did you find out who it was?
Shaun Lunt:
He was actually a Cumbrian as well.
Barrie McDermott:
Was he?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, one of me mates, Lee Mossop, that used to play for Wigan Warriors, he knew of him. So yeah, he was just a mouthy, a mouthy guy from Cumbria.
Barrie McDermott:
Ignore keyboard warriors.
Shaun Lunt:
Exactly, yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
That's the advice, isn't it?
Shaun Lunt:
That's what I learned.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, I learned that. [inaudible 00:34:23].
Barrie McDermott:
And as well, another good piece of advice, don't engage with imbeciles because they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. That's what I got taught. So Moz, I know you'll have loads of funny stories. You've played in some incredible teams, but always around big characters.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, big characters. I mean, Rugby League, it's quite an extreme sport played by extreme people. So a lot of the lads are quite daft, shall we say. But yeah, probably my favorite teammate was Terry Newton, really. As tough as he was, as good as a player he was, he was an out-and-out joker as well. But he knew went to flick the switch and be serious, and he knew when to have a laugh.
But my funny story about Terry was, he didn't mean to be funny on this instance. So we all used to get our mouth guards made at the start of the season.
Barrie McDermott:
I know this story.
Adrian Morley:
You know the story. And he didn't try it on during the week. Anyway, we got to the game. So I seen Terry messing about with his mouth guard. It didn't fit, and it just kept falling out. And what you used to have was glue to spray in your hands and it helps you catch the ball, stops you knocking. Anyhow, he went into the showers and I heard, tsst-tsst. And then I heard, urgh, urgh, urgh. Terry come out, he had glue all around his mouth. He'd sprayed glue in his mouth guard, and stick it. Anyway, so right now we're ready to play, but no one could warm up for laughing. But then we played in the end, we got the win. But yeah, so that was his-
Barrie McDermott:
Great lad. Nasty.
Adrian Morley:
Nasty, yeah. Got a bit of nastiness in him, that lad.
Barrie McDermott:
But I'd say, when you think about the game that's played now, he'd fit in the modern, won't he? Because he was smart and sharp.
Adrian Morley:
Oh, he could do everything. As tough and as ruthless as he was. And you're right, nasty. He had so much skill and was so tough as well. And 15 years last week since we lost Terry. Sorely missed. Great guy. Best mate in the game.
Barrie McDermott:
That was brilliant. I could do this all day, but I think it's time to wrap things up. We had a great chat earlier about retirement and transition. Let's go back to that and get some takeaways from the audience. Start with you, Moz. Was it a feeling of emptiness or freedom when you come to the end of your career?
Adrian Morley:
It was freedom, really, Barrie. As much as I loved my career, I won't change anything, it was fantastic. But when it does come to an end, it's a relief and it's just like, yeah, I don't have to train now, I don't have to play now, there's no pressure. Which were all great, don't get me wrong. But at that stage, in that time in my life, I was happy to be free.
Barrie McDermott:
Emptiness or freedom?
Shaun Lunt:
Again, freedom at first. And then again, we always mourn what we don't have. We complain about being told what to do, when to be there. But then I realized that I thrived from that. Getting up and doing nothing and playing... There's only so much Call of Duty you can play until you get bored again and then you want that structure back in your life. So, for me, it was just really, sort of a really awkward feeling. I didn't know how to respond at times and whatnot. But now, finally, I've got over that stage and now I'm working now and getting into the next chapter of my career and embracing it as well. And looking at it like I did when I first started out with rugby, that it's a new chapter, a new beginning, and cracking on.
Barrie McDermott:
You put it on record that after that period there was a transitional period, but there was a recognition that you needed to retrain, re-educate. What advice would you have for people who were looking at a change of jobs, a change of roles, they'd have to upscale or upgrade themselves to perhaps leaving school and going on to further or higher education. What advice would you give people?
Adrian Morley:
Go into any new experience open-minded. Don't be blinkered. Go in and attack it with a bit of gusto and a bit of enthusiasm. We are fortunate having a previous experience with Rugby League, there's a lot of transferable skills in Rugby League into the working life. So find out, search what you are good at, what your superpower is, and then just transfer that and try and apply that into your new role.
Barrie McDermott:
Then lastly, what advice would you give to people who are transitioning? Because this has all been about transitioning from a player to the working environment. It might be somebody that's leaving school, not doing A-levels, going onto an apprenticeship, reached a certain level but needs to go back in up-skill and upgrade themself and educate themself. What advice would you give people listening on that regard?
Shaun Lunt:
I think it's okay to be scared of that challenge. It's a daunting challenge, it is, I've been there myself. It's embracing being comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. That's when we learned through hard times, that's when we grow. And if you can flip your mindset around it, that the glass is half full rather than half empty and embrace it and really challenge yourself to grow and just apply that to something new and enjoy. And you know what? You might just like it to.
Barrie McDermott:
And Moz, you've had to do something similar; transitioning from a player to an environment at Salford in a management role and then coming to be a coach. And then with the jobs and roles that you've got now, what's your advice to people who have a challenge around education, up-skilling or upgrading themselves? And, let's be honest, when they're in an environment where they're a little bit intimidated and they may be hesitant in asking questions.
Adrian Morley:
So go into any experience with an open-mind. Me old coach, Dean Bell used to say, "I don't believe in luck, but the harder you work, the luckier you get." And it always stuck with me. That's why I always worked really hard. So me advice is work hard and see how far that gets you. Whether that's training, playing, or any different role, work hard and see how far it gets you.
Barrie McDermott:
Some really good stuff there, lads. And I'd only probably ask that, never be afraid to ask a question. And ultimately, if you go at it with an energy, a passion, and a drive and an enthusiasm, I think people will recognize that and want to help you along your way.
It's been a pleasure to dig some big topics today. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your honesty. We'll do it again sometime soon.
Shaun Lunt:
We certainly will, Baz.
Adrian Morley:
Definitely.
Barrie McDermott:
So if you're watching or listening, subscribe or like or whatever tickles your fancy.