Bankrupt U March 12 2025 | 3 College Money Traps

What is Don't Let College BANKRUPT U.?

Going to college is all about the game. Unfortunately, for most students and their parents, it's a game where only one team knows the rules. Kids applying to college, and parents looking to guide their kids, don't recognize there is a win/loss relationship to this game. Somebody will win and somebody will lose.

Drs. Bill Quain and Joe Corabi are college professors who pay you (students) back. They wrote the book 'Bankrupt U.'

Each show episode will look, in detail, at the book and all of the guidance Bill and Joe have for students and their families.

Topics scheduled to be covered in the show include:

1. What your college dosen't sant you to know
2. Do colleges really give a C.R.A.P.?
3. How American colleges view prospects, students, and alumni. (Hint: ATM's come into play)
4. The secret playbook your college uses to empty your ATM
5. Ten Money Traps
6. What your college didn't teach you.
7. The plays for your creating reicher alumni playbook
AND much more .......................................................

Dr. Joe Corabi (00:01.772)
Welcome to episode one of Don't Let College Bankrupt You. I'm Dr. Joe Carrabbi, along with my good friend and colleague, Dr. Bill Quain. We are the co-founders of The Professors Who Pay You Back and co-authors of our new book, Bankrupt You. Students, parents, and alumni are going broke and colleges don't give a crap. Now, crap is an acronym and I know we've got your attention with that acronym.

The acronym stands for Creating Richer Alumni Playbook because that's exactly what we're trying to do. Our mission is to help students, parents, and alumni become prosperous and successful. Now the book is available on Amazon in both paperback and Kindle. So we want you to go out there and buy a couple of hundred thousand copies for yourself and give some to your friends. And remember, we have a special prize for the person who buys the millionth copy of the book.

Put yourself in that running there. Today, the focus of our podcast is to help you watch for and navigate the college money traps that have been set for you. But before we get started, Bill and I had no idea how to start a podcast. And we want to lay that out for everybody. And then we began following Gary Stocker.

We've become huge fans of Gary's podcast this week in College Viability. We can think of no one who wanted to include on our first podcast more than Gary. And as I said, Bill and I had no idea how to get started in the whole podcast arena and Gary extended himself to us and for that we are very, very thankful. Gary is with us.

here today, he's going to be our facilitator. But to be honest with you, he's much more than that. And I'm going to let Bill speak a little bit more about Gary.

Dr. Bill Quain (02:09.881)
Yeah, thank you, Joe. We really didn't want to call him a facilitator because we had to pay him more for that. no, listen, Gary is the reason we're able to do this and we really appreciate it. he just has taught us so much and shared so much in a very generous way. So, Gary, we're just happy that you're here today. You're going to be kind of like the voice of the people here, the conscience of the people.

Gary D Stocker (02:14.495)
I'm not sure if the to

Dr. Bill Quain (02:36.795)
Unlike in class where our students aren't able to challenge us or else we'll fail them, you can ask questions and challenge us and get some good conversations going. We really appreciate it.

Gary D Stocker (02:49.885)
Well, gentlemen, thank you very much. And let's get the series started. And for those just joining us or watching this on the recorded version, there are 10 money traps in the book, Bankrupt Jew. And we're going to talk just about three of them today. And the first one is for those of you who've been around college for a while, there's something called FERPA, which is the family essentially protects students from parents invading their privacy. I'm making that part up, but that's essentially what it is. And Bill, you guys call that part of the

What's going on with that?

Dr. Bill Quain (03:23.013)
Well, the parent trap is when you take your kid to college, where he's under a contract or she's under a contract for a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of education, four years of their lives. And the college wants to slam the gate on you because the last thing that they want is you being too involved in your kid's choices that you're gonna make, that person gonna make there.

Hey, it's a balancing act. We know that because you want your child to grow up. But a lot of times when you ask your kid to grow up, you don't give them $200,000 and say good luck. So we want to get parents aware of just how much they need to keep involved with their child. So it's not a one and done. You're in college. Goodbye, good luck. It's, hey, we're in this together and we're going to try to protect the family fortune.

Gary D Stocker (04:16.243)
And then Joe, there's another part in Money Trap number one. And you essentially say in the book that parents who are financially successful are penalized in terms of how much financial aid is available to them. Is that right?

Dr. Joe Corabi (04:33.838)
Yeah, that's that whole calculation, Gary, the whole calculus about how financial aid is considered. You know what, if I could approach this, I want to pick up a little bit on what Bill said also, though, if you don't mind, Gary. You know, for years, we have, you know, as parents, we've been building, I call it the family business. And, you we've been building this family business. And we want that business to be successful.

So now when you look at it, colleges are a variable in how that family business grows. Now you wanna talk about, yeah, all right. So you have parents who have, well, they've worked hard, they've earned the type of standard of living that they're proud of and they want their kids to also share in that. And unfortunately, that can work against them when it comes to going to college.

college, I mean, that's a variable in the growth of your family business. Obviously, it could be positive or negative. But every single dollar that a college takes from you, right, affects the enhancement of that family business. So when you talk about, yeah, you're absolutely right, that your means can work against you.

Now, you know, there's other sides of that. You we all know about what cultural capital is all about. We know that very often people who have means also have created the pipeline for their kids to be successful in college. Yes, we know that, but from a strict financial standpoint, you're absolutely correct. If you've got the means, sometimes that's going to work against you and you're going to wind up paying more.

Gary D Stocker (06:23.143)
And Bill, I I've seen many references across social media and I because I've read that about the plus loan, the parent plus loan if you will. And I've seen a lot of folks say and even recommend that parents never take out a plus loan. What's your thought on that in the book?

Dr. Bill Quain (06:41.871)
Well, it's a dangerous thing. One of the things about a parents plus loan is, we talk about the return on investment in the college. And we measure, I don't like the way they do it. They measure simply about how much money you would make in your lifetime, which is only half the battle to pay it back. But guess what? It's not the parents making that money. The kids make that money. And so, when the parents take a parents plus loan,

there's no return on investment of that for them because most parents pay that plus loan off and it puts off their retirement. could be a lot of bad things that could happen. mean, the other thing too, and aside from money, which is obviously really important, the simple things that we teach parents to do in this money trap is to just simply stay involved. Make sure you know what courses you're

your kids are taking. We've got a real good example in there of a student of mine whose mother called me. the mother has been sending $8,000 a semester to the school where I teach for her child. And this has been going on for almost six years. And the kid wasn't talking to her. And she's asking me, well, I can't disclose it because of FERPA.

So what I had to do was I had to get the two of them together first. And then once I did that, then the mother was able to ask the daughter what was going on. then they got back together, which was a really positive thing. And then the mother became invested in the classes. It turned out that this girl, by the way, and this is one of reasons we call it the parent trap. It turns out that this young woman,

had failed or withdrawn from statistics. I call it sadistic, I think four times and was taking it a fifth time. And she needed that class to graduate. And she was about to withdraw again. And then we found out all these other classes she had withdrawn from. the mother had no idea why their daughter was still in school after almost six years and wasn't that close.

Dr. Bill Quain (09:08.069)
fairly close to graduation, we got it back on track. But because we were able to activate an alert on the parent track.

Gary D Stocker (09:17.919)
And so, Joe, it sounds like Bill is reading my mind because he's of segueing into the next question that I have. And the recommendation you have for parents on Money Trap number one is make your financial support of your child conditional upon them giving access to everything. Is that a fair statement?

Dr. Joe Corabi (09:36.832)
that's more than fair. Look, I have my own thoughts about regulations and families. here's the deal. I'm going to go back to what I said about the family business. Parents have been making sacrifices along the way. Financial. mean, just think of, you know, we've suffered through all the cuts and bruises. And then all of a sudden, going to, you know, we're going to turn it over to the college and we don't have a say. And I have a problem with that.

You know, I think it requires a sit down with your son or daughter and say, hey, look, you know, if I'm paying the freight here for you to go to college, I just want some input into these decisions. I want to know what's going on. And I don't think that's unreasonable. I really don't.

Gary D Stocker (10:24.863)
Bill and Joe, and I'll direct this one to Bill, we did the initial podcast on this a few weeks ago. And I know one of the things we brought up was your view, and you share this in the book, Bankrupt You, that colleges view students, and to some extent their families, as ATM machines, Bill. What do mean by that?

Dr. Bill Quain (10:41.627)
Well, they do. mean, see, you got to understand colleges are not thinking about your kid beyond the four to six or in some cases, 24 years that they're that they're in school, you know, they're only looking at them as, know, this is my, this is how professors, this is how the administrators, this is how the staff, not so much the staff people really, but the professors and administrators look at this.

Gary D Stocker (10:54.109)
Hahaha

Dr. Bill Quain (11:10.811)
This is our chance to empty as much money out of this student's ATM as possible for as long as we have them here. And that's what they're concentrating on. So they're going to require you to take four years of classes. A lot of those classes are going to be pretty useless. They're not going to contribute much to your future stability or ability to build your own family business at all.

And but they're very dedicated to it. And Gary and Joe, we all know this. I don't think most parents know this. The universities have set up tremendous in-depth algorithms they call enrollment management. And what they're doing is they're starting from the moment your child applies or even is interested.

And they're figuring out exactly what your financial position is so that they can make an offer to you. And we'll talk about this more in another trap, money trap there. But their whole idea is to decide how much do you have and how much do you have access to through loans. And they're going to encourage you to go into deep, deep debt if that's what it takes for them to get that money from your kid and keep the college open.

Gary D Stocker (12:34.175)
And in conjunction with that, you use the term in the book, bankrupt you frictionless. Explain that to the viewers.

Dr. Joe Corabi (12:43.02)
Yeah, think that's a great point too. Just think about it. It's not only colleges, but in that book, we also talk about a story when Bill and I were coming back from fishing, how I just got on the app and ordered two hoagies here on the East Coast. We call them hoagies. Sometimes they're called subs, but they're sandwiches. And I just simply went to a previous order and hit a button and bingo.

You know the subs were ordered and I went to pick them up. Nope. No hassle was already paid for and so many things in our lives are quote frictionless and and Whether it's a company whether it's a college whether it's a business You know, they look at doing that because with with the intent of quote making it easier for us Well, when you think about that making it easier to do what? It's making it easier to spend money Already, it's friction

less. So Bill and I advocate that spending money should be a little more difficult. I always say that spending money should be both calculated and strategic. It doesn't need that you watch every penny, but the point very simply is it's too easy. Colleges have it set up. They send you the letter that says, okay, you need a lab fee. Here you go. Send us $200 for the lab fee. Just boom.

All right, by the way, you want us to just charge the credit card that you have on file. So that's what we mean by frictionless. It's too easy to spend money. You need to tighten that up. It needs to be strategic and thoughtful. So yeah, that whole point about frictionless is right on target.

Gary D Stocker (14:31.903)
And so Bill, let's kind of pursue that frictionless model. This is something a little bit outside the book, but student loans, for example, and you talk about this quite a bit in depth in the book, Bankrupt You, student loans. And the way now we know the government is the monopoly on student loans. And we're seeing a lot of turmoil in Washington, DC. We're not going to do politics here, but speculate, Bill, what would happen if...

Private entities got back to loaning students money. Would we still see a frictionless approach to colleges, or might they create more friction?

Dr. Bill Quain (15:05.773)
It would create more friction, Joe and I, talk about friction less and friction more. And as far as I know, we're the ones that talk about that. Let's go back to these loans, all right? You know, when you borrow money, a student borrows the money or the parents borrow the money to pay their builder. Here's how the government has it set up. The government has it set up so you never see that money.

Imagine this, Gary. The woman I talked about a few minutes ago who was writing the $8,000 check every semester, her child had no scholarships, no financial aid type thing. And she was physically writing an $8,000 check. Her attitude towards that $8,000 was a whole lot different than if that student had been given an $8,000 loan.

which would have gone right from the federal government and right into the pockets of the school. So no one even thinks about it because the payments don't begin until six months after you graduate, as long as you stay in school at least half time. So even if private entities got back involved in it, yes, that would add a little more friction because they would be asking themselves, you're majoring in what? And you want us to lend you?

Gary D Stocker (16:33.055)
You

Dr. Bill Quain (16:33.081)
you know, you know, so that might change a little bit, but this frictionless thing and listen, the banks are going to try to be as frictionless as possible as well because they don't want you thinking about that money. It's, you know, you've got to make it friction more. I'm sorry, I get excited because this is money trap number two and it's, you know, we thought it was that important that we made it number two. It's just

It just drives me crazy. And you look at your life with credit cards and everything else, you know, the people in their lives, studies have been shown, and if they have a credit card, they actually imagine in their mind that they're making 10 % more than they're making from their income because they see that as almost as income. So frictionless will kill you. You got to watch it.

Gary D Stocker (17:21.855)
Sure.

Gary D Stocker (17:30.545)
And Joe, yes, there are certainly issues with the way colleges drive the business part of their operation, but colleges is valuable for millions. They go, they get a valuable degree, valuable learning, valuable experience, and those kinds of things. And in the book, you don't suggest this, but I'm going to put what kind of words in your mouth, that student loans are kind of a scam. But that's not universally the case. Or am I wrong on that?

Dr. Joe Corabi (17:58.636)
No, you're not wrong on that in any way, or form, Gary. But I think it goes back to, I think what Bill just mentioned, return on investment. Okay, what are you borrowing that money for? There are certain professions in our society where you know you are gonna get a return on that investment. I think that's part of the calculation. Go back to the friction more that, yeah, it's easy to go to college and

and pay for, quote, the experience. And you've heard me say this before, I think, Gary. If you're borrowing money for the experience, I'm not quite sure that's going to be a return on investment that's going to pay itself back. And I've always said, if you really want the college experience, go to a football game, because it's a whole lot cheaper. I think that's a, yeah, you're right. mean, look, I want you to go back to what I had said earlier.

Spending money should be strategic and calculated. Unfortunately, it's not a bottomless pit. The money is not there. Let's stop pretending that the money is there for most people. Yes, go back to your original question. Are there families that have the means? The answer, obviously, is yes. But that's not the case for everybody.

We have our young people getting into such financial debt and there's a carryover effect. How about starting a family? How about buying a home? How about your credit score being so low that you can't buy a car or if you are gonna buy a car, you're getting hit with an interest rate that is dramatically higher than others. yeah, look for the return on investment, Gary.

Loans are not necessarily a bad thing. Can you pay them back? Is the job you're going to get the type of job that's going to work for you?

Gary D Stocker (20:00.017)
So, Bill, scam or not?

Dr. Bill Quain (20:02.927)
Well, you say the word scam and then people say you're an extremist and that kind of stuff. we're not going to say scam, but here's the thing that Joe and I talk about all the time. And Gary, you know, we talk about building the family business. So here's what we're saying to people. Look,

know what you're getting into here, know that this is a business that wants nothing more than your money. I mean, that's which is what a business wants. So, you know, from a scam standpoint, you know, I don't think it reaches the level of scam. In some cases, it does. But for the general public, doesn't. just reach but it certainly reaches a level of a bad deal. But, but

Gary D Stocker (20:42.057)
Yeah, right, right.

Dr. Bill Quain (21:00.511)
And here's what I'd like to point out. And this is what Joe and I say. Because, Joe and I, when we wrote this book, and you know this, Gary, from reading all the way through it, that we give students lessons and parents lessons on how to create richer alumni. And we have a playbook for it in our book. So let's take this really valuable time here. I know it's, you know, I just want to make sure we all understand this. We're talking about

being careful of frictionless payment systems because it's going to cost you money for things you maybe didn't even need. here's what you want to do. You want to spend the rest of your life learning a lesson from this. You want to make, anytime you put money out, you want to make it friction more. And anytime you get money in, you want to make it frictionless. So if we teach students how to grow their value,

for people who are gonna get the money later in life, like employers or customers or whatever happened to be. You wanna make people paying you as frictionless as possible, and you wanna make the money you put out as friction more as possible. And if by going to college, you can learn that lesson, I'm telling you, that could change your life forever.

and a generation or two from now, they'll be looking at a picture over the fireplace and saying, I don't remember that person's name. That's what changed our family's fortune.

Gary D Stocker (22:31.391)
And Bill, let's talk about majors. And Joe, think, has referenced this a little bit. But Bill, we have historically, as a country, as a culture, as a society, let 18, 19, 20, 21-year-olds choose their life's income earning major, sometimes, of course, with significant parent input and sometimes with no parent input. What if we had a private, what if there's a model in place

that required a student to do some kind of aptitude or income awareness testing based on majors they were interested in.

Dr. Bill Quain (23:13.381)
Well, your choice of major, mean, you know, and we have actually, but you know, we'll talk about this more on another podcast, but when we get more deeply into majors and minors, but here's the thing. Here's another frictionless idea here. The colleges tell the students, pursue your passion. Now that's just about the worst advice you can give somebody.

Because an 18 year old, I don't know what your passion is, but it's not going to be to create a wealthy lifestyle that helps you and frees you up from stress and that kind of stuff for the rest of your life. And the colleges are going to have majors set up to attract you, not into a better life, they're going to attract you into spending money at college. You've got to ask yourself,

Joe and I advocate for and so far with Joe is it zero success or less than that? I forget. We advocate that colleges begin to teach, begin to begin to preach what they practice. Colleges are rapacious, know, money hungry institutions. I'm sorry. That's the truth. Okay. And, and, and

You can get a great education there. You can get a great deal if you do the right things while you're there. But we want colleges to start teaching people earlier the lessons of life. And they're just not doing it.

Gary D Stocker (24:56.009)
So Joe, same topic. I'm going to make you king, emperor, monarch of higher education, the higher education world, and outline what you believe would be the best model for helping college students choose that major.

Gary D Stocker (25:14.975)
What you say goes, Joe. What you say goes. Nobody's going to question it.

Dr. Joe Corabi (25:15.022)
Do I have to, how much? This is it, nobody's, all right, so this is a directive I can give, all right? All right, I'm gonna answer that question this way. Wow, that's a hell of a question, thank you, Gary. And thanks for putting me on the spot with that one, so I really appreciate that. All right.

As former high school principal already, we used to give the ASFAB, which is basically the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Test. I don't know if that's the answer or not. know, kids are 17 years old. They may show a certain skill set. I understand the value of those inventories. And I think you put some faith in it. But my recommendation is you've got to

You've got to understand what your field of study is going to yield. If you want to be a plumber, hell, you got to go work with a plumber. If you want to be a teacher, we need to spend more time in the classroom. Look, I'm an educator. I'll give you a perfect example. I spoke with one of my students who's a doctoral student.

She explained to me an apprenticeship program that our local, what it's called, intermediate unit, it's a centralized educational entity that supports local school districts. But anyway, they have an apprenticeship situation going on and it's absolutely mind-blowing. They take people without teaching degrees and they'll put them in a classroom and they work closely with a mentor teacher to learn the profession.

And you've heard me say this before too, Gary. We have these core courses or general courses that, to be honest with you, I understand the concept of giving people a liberal arts background and learning about things, but I'm sorry, the times have changed. We need to spend more time in exposing our students to, well, in the book we call it skill-based training.

Dr. Joe Corabi (27:31.182)
So I'm the emperor, right? So I'm gonna make my declaration. Alrighty. Let's look at college course options and start reforming what we do when the kids are there. All right. Let's spend more time having kids going out into the field with apprenticeships, internships, practicum experiences.

they have to put their, they gotta get their hands dirty. So my proclamation will be less time on a college campus, more time in the field.

Gary D Stocker (28:10.079)
You know, I'm going to jump in just to offer a perfect example. For those watching the show, I'm old. You can tell by the gray stuff on top of my head. And I had exactly that, Joe. I had did 90 credits at my public college a long, time ago and 12 months as an internship. Now, my original bachelor's degree was in something called medical laboratory science. So for 12 months and for 30 college credits, I learned how to differentiate white blood cells, whether somebody was anemic or not, whether a bacteria was pathogenic and what antibiotics would kill it.

how to make sure somebody could get a donated unit of blood without dying. Those were the most valuable 12 months I have spent in my entire 60 plus years on this planet because I learned specific skills and that's exactly what you're talking about. Now does it apply to every single major? I think I can make the argument that yes it does, but that's kind of what you're talking about. Specific skills, not just general principles. Joe?

Dr. Joe Corabi (29:05.196)
Yeah, no, no, you're right on target. Listen, and you know, I have a son who was a philosophy professor and I'm gonna tell you right now, the brightest, most intelligent person I have ever met in my life. And you know, I know I'll embarrass him by saying that. And you know, he and I have ongoing conversations about this. And you know, it's really interesting. He does understand that approach. And you know, I'm not gonna speak for him, but...

He's part of the core. Every kid's got to take his course, for instance, but he sees value in experiential types of learning activities. Look, Gary, I'm older than you. I don't even have any hair. I don't know how you can just... But the point very simply is I couldn't agree with you more.

I think the market is moving in that direction. really do. I really do. I think the market is moving in that direction. I think we're gonna go, sooner or later, we're gonna go back to the equivalent of the master, the journeyman, the apprentice.

Gary D Stocker (30:08.071)
Interesting, interesting.

Gary D Stocker (30:19.581)
Yep, fascinating. So, money trap five, Bill. Colleges want to take a bite out of your wallet. I want to focus on meal cards because it's not the most significant component, but it is nonetheless a financially, materially significant amount. Talk about meal cards and how they are an example of colleges taking a bite out of a family's wallet.

Dr. Bill Quain (30:43.835)
Yeah, and this is near and dear to me, Gary, because I graduated from a hotel school. so I graduated with actually with a trade because I graduated as a chef and had a great career at that before I turned to academics. So I know a lot about this. I've worked with campus food service people. They're in business.

But here's where it gets really deep. this is where, listen, folks, I'm not a conspiracy nut. I have seen the contracts. And the contract between a university and its food service provider is really interesting. There is a great article that we found. was actually in a student newspaper where the students were exposing some of the things that went on. And there's other articles out there as well.

The food service is a major source of income for the college. Now, not just for the food they sell to the students, but most colleges have events scheduled on their campus where people will come in and have a meeting there and that sort of thing. And they sell the food service for that as well. But the meal plans are designed to leave money on the table.

each year. The one meal plan that this article talked about was called the Fab 14. It was 14 meals a week that the students got for this plan. And each swipe, it was 14 swipes a week, each swipe was worth, I think, $18.16. And so if a student went to the cafeteria and had $10 worth of stuff,

They could just tell the swiper there to swipe it twice for them, you know, and leaving, you know, $6 on the, you know, that's gone. But then also what the students do too is if they're in that situation, they'll usually say to their friends, do you want anything? You know, because they don't want to waste the money. So they're going to get their friends to buy food, you know, too, on that card.

Dr. Bill Quain (33:07.771)
But here's the thing. So each swipe was worth $8.16. You got 14 a week. And for the entire semester, it was a $2,200 charge for that. But guess what? 14 times 15 weeks times 816 was only $1,800. So the college had built in a $400 breakage. We call it breakage.

Gary D Stocker (33:30.585)
Hahaha

Dr. Bill Quain (33:37.061)
point there for them for every student. This was a mid-sized college with about 10,000 students. Let's say 5,000 students were on that program. That was $2 million a semester in cost that the parents and the students got absolutely nothing for. In addition to that, listen to this, in addition to that, is a, with most colleges and their food service,

There is a clause in the contract which says you must maximize the yield from each student we have on campus or you lose your contract. These contracts are worth millions of dollars to these food service companies. It's big, big business. They know what you eat and they know how to keep money in their pockets without putting food out. It's frictionless.

You gotta make it friction.

Gary D Stocker (34:37.437)
Yeah, yeah. And Joe, last question, and this has to do again the same thing. You guys have a good recommendation in the book, Bankrupt Due, How to Beat This Money Trap. And you suggest that families, parents, give their students some financial incentives, which is kind of a learning lesson on how to beat this money trap. Describe that.

Dr. Joe Corabi (34:58.146)
Yeah, well, I think it comes down to basic budgeting. I think it's a great opportunity for parents to work with kids on budgeting strategies and techniques. Go back, it's just not a bottomless pit. There's X amount of money that has to be spent. And by the way, if the Fab 14 is not the right plan for you, maybe another plan is a better plan for you. But I don't think you just...

take the college's recommendation. Okay, well, most of our students, you know, select this plan. That may not work for you. Parents need to be on top of it. And goes back to my earlier comments. You know, parents are the ones who have healed the cuts and bruises, both emotional and physical. All righty? Well, you know what? Don't let it go. You still got to stay on top of your kids. You still got to be, you still got to guide them. And that's what we talk about in the book. All right?

Provide that constant guidance and part of that guidance is maybe there's lessons to be learned in how to budget, that where this money is going, how to spend this money and be prudent in the way you do it.

Dr. Bill Quain (36:13.206)
Hey Gary?

Gary D Stocker (36:13.929)
So Bill, yeah, Bill, I'll let you wrap this up. ahead.

Dr. Bill Quain (36:16.153)
Yeah, because again, we go back to this point where there is so much at college that goes to waste in terms of what could be great life lessons. And this is a fantastic example that, you know, your kid is going to graduate from college, hopefully, but even if they don't, they're going to be out in the world and they're going to have to learn how to feed themselves, that they have a family on a budget and that kind of stuff. What a great opportunity for you as a family.

to say, look, this is real life. These are the things you have to continue with. Again, Joe and I are trying to get colleges to build that into their curriculum as great. mean, imagine the differences of making students' lives if just the things we've talked about today actually became part of a curriculum.

Gary D Stocker (37:05.023)
And so Bill Quain and Joe Karabi are the professors who pay you back. This is just one in a series of shows we're going to do that delve deeply into their book, Bankrupt You, for parents, for students, of course, for family members, and for others in the higher education industry to really get a better handle on what a college's perspective is on the money side. So Bill, Joe, I suggest we continue doing this. Until then, for those of you making time to watch the podcast, watch the show, thank you very much. We'll be back soon with another show.