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Eggheads is the go-to podcast for egg industry professionals who are interested in leadership and innovation in the egg world. Host Greg Schonefeld explores the evolving world of modern egg farming, from the latest in cage-free innovations and organic certifications to navigating the economics of large-scale production. Whether you're an egg producer, supplier, or involved in poultry genetics, this show provides the insights and expert discussions you need to thrive in the industry. Crack open the science, strategies, and stories behind the egg industry’s biggest challenges and opportunities.
Ryan Bennett:
This is an opportunity for you to tell your story or your customer, the public at large, but at the same time, I think doing that in a vacuum and creating that would also be a mistake. It'd be the industry talking to the industry. It'd be everybody patting each other on the back, like, "Look at how good we are. We are awesome." But at the same time, if you're not actually connecting with anybody and being, I think, real about whether what we're doing is working or not, then I don't think we're going to make any progress.
Greg Shonefeld:
Hey there. Welcome back to Eggheads. I'm your host, Greg Greg Shonefeld. My next guest's journey into agriculture began on a livestock farm in Maryland where he grew up deeply involved in 4-H and livestock judging, which eventually led to a scholarship to study at Kansas State.
Ryan Bennett:
Hi, I'm Ryan Bennett. I'm the executive director of the US Roundtable for Sustainable Poultry and Eggs and the International Poultry Welfare Alliance.
Greg Shonefeld:
Ryan Bennett began his career in public policy, working with organizations like the National Grain and Feed Association and the National Milk Producers Federation, where he lobbied on behalf of farmers and helped develop the Farmers Assuring Responsible Management program. Realizing that many of the pressures on agriculture were coming from within the supply chain itself, he transitioned from lobbying to focus on sustainable practices. Ryan's work at the US Roundtable for Sustainable Poultry and Eggs focuses on fostering a holistic, outcome-driven approach to sustainability. And it all starts with defining what sustainability means.
It seems we hear that word daily, if not more, and my brain goes straight to the environment, but as we'll learn from Ryan, sustainability is more than that. It's about the key practices and the key areas that can be continuously improved for long-term success. He champions a framework that encourages self-assessment across the supply chain, emphasizing the importance of solid data to track real progress. By allowing members to chart their own paths based on specific goals rather than rigid standards, he supports innovation and adaptability, ensuring that every operation, from large integrators to small farms, can identify areas to improve over time. Ryan's approach underscores the complexity of sustainability, reminding us that effective change happens not through a one-size-fits-all model, but by meeting each producer where they are.
Ryan, great to meet you. Thanks for coming on.
Ryan Bennett:
Yeah, good to see you, Greg.
Greg Shonefeld:
Getting started, you've touched a lot of different parts of ag, from beef to dairy to grain, and now poultry and egg. I do want to hear your thoughts on, just in general, perception versus reality and agriculture and what you've seen over the years. Can you elaborate on some of those misconceptions?
Ryan Bennett:
I think there's misperceptions that we have about the public and who's behind some of these things and what they're thinking and why. I do always try and keep that in mind, but obviously sustainability is a complex thing. A lot of people talk about it being like one of those skinny birthday balloons that you'd get from the clown, that if you tamp down on something here, another thing might balloon up. We really try our best to find those win-wins. Those don't always exist. A lot of the things that have made us very successful from being productive also seems to correlate with things like greenhouse gas emissions being lower, especially on an intensity basis. So per dozen eggs or per pound of chicken or turkey, those more efficient systems without maybe the pasture-based types of systems don't necessarily have a lower carbon footprint.
And so rather than focusing on the production system or the specific practices, we're really focused on trying to meet people where they are, no matter how they're raising eggs, because there's a place for all of that, and obviously there's demand or those things wouldn't exist. But at the same time, telling a truthful story and a story that captures what people are doing well, but also where they need to do better, and focusing on those things because there's a lot of different areas to measure, and in order to really work on those things in earnest, you need to be able to narrow down what you're working on. You can't work on them all at once. So I think our system tends to allow people to have some things to hang their hat on and show where they're really doing well, but also focus them on those areas that they want to improve on and show progress on over time.
Greg Shonefeld:
At the US Roundtable for Sustainable Poultry, Ryan applies an outcome-based approach similar to programs he's worked on in the dairy industry. His team measures various sustainability factors, from greenhouse gas emissions to HR and safety, tailoring assessments to ensure practical improvements across poultry operations.
Ryan Bennett:
What I'm doing here is measuring all those different areas from a higher level and all the way through the supply chain, so that's another part of what we do is that multi-stakeholder perspective from farm to fork we have included in our membership, and I think that's an important part of learning about those misperceptions from the consumer and then the customer relaying where they sit and what they're feeling, thinking, hearing, and allowing the full supply chain to learn from one another.
Greg Shonefeld:
Yeah. Well, I think you hear the word sustainability so much that it almost loses meaning, and you hear it in all facets of life, and then here you are looking at it specifically as it relates to poultry and egg.
Ryan Bennett:
Most people struggle with the definition of sustainability, and it is being used as a buzzword, as a marketing tool. You go to industry conferences now, you go to the trade show, a lot of people have sustainability on their booth. We like to say environmentally sound, socially responsible and economically viable, but what that actually means underneath of that is complex. So it's like saying what's the best country in the world? I think you would probably go to data around what their gross domestic product is or what their healthcare outcomes are or what their education outcomes are, or what their food and housing availability is or what their job numbers look like to be able to make the case for whatever that is. So this is a similar type of question. When I'm asked about what makes something sustainable, I say environmentally sound, socially responsible, economically viable, but what actually underpins that is a lot of different data points that we're trying to bring together in one package to tell that story.
Greg Shonefeld:
And what are those data points? Environmental metrics like greenhouse gas emissions, water and land use, and waste management. Social measures that cover animal welfare, worker safety and community impact, and economic indicators like cost efficiency, profit margins and market demand. Together, these data points create a full picture of sustainability that helps producers track progress and make informed decisions.
And then part of what you mentioned before too is the stakeholders you have involved, and I think you said from farm to fork. Can you talk a little bit more? Because I guess part of what you're trying to do is get people at every step of the way on the same page of what this means and be working in the same direction.
Ryan Bennett:
It's not me sitting in a room somewhere developing these metrics. These are our members that are creating these and doing that off of the advice of sustainability experts, but also throughout the entire supply chain. So throughout that process, we would share the grower point of view or the integrator processor point of view, or if they were highly aligned, we might just show them as a production in general. And they might be high on, "This is what is important to me for sustainability," and then we would share retail and food service and they might be low on something. Well, then we would facilitate a conversation through the roundtable about why is that important to you and not as important to the other, and vice versa, why are you so worried about these types of questions or these types of metrics or this type of data as a retail and food service company, and the growers might've been lower on that list.
Obviously, the ones that were both high-high are easy ins, the ones that are low-low or easy outs, but having that discussion across the supply chain then allowed our members to share, "Well, this is what I do, this is how I do it, and these are the pressures that I'm facing. This is how I feel. This is what it looks like to be me." And it allows people's voices to be heard and develop a deeper understanding that I think allows us to move forward. We really need to continue to facilitate that exchange of living a day in my shoes and feeling my pressures, both from that production level up through the retail food service companies that are the end buyers that are selling this to you and me at restaurants and grocery stores, but then also on the other hand, allowing those retail and food service companies who also are feeling unique things and experiencing unique pressures that maybe aren't always understood by the folks further down the supply chain and production.
So I think that entire process of building that understanding and quite frankly building that trust, because building that trust happens from a personal level and through sharing data. It's not just through sharing data. It's also building a space for people to be able to interact with each other and tell each other's story and learn from one another, and then that data sharing experience is also just another layer of that transparency and trust building exercise that I think ultimately will yield better outcomes for how people develop their policies within retail and food service, of course, but also from a production level in terms of understanding why their customer's asking these questions. It's not just coming out of nowhere sometimes.
Greg Shonefeld:
In all industries, we constantly hear about the importance of metrics and the power of data, but for data to mean something, it has to be rooted in real world needs. That's where Ryan and his team come in. They work to unify voices across the supply chain, from farmers to retailers, making sure these sustainability metrics actually reflect the real pressures and goals on the ground. What does that do? It builds genuine trust and transparency. This open forum they've created allows members to share their challenges, align priorities, and in the end, shape a unified sustainability strategy, one that speaks to consumers and drives meaningful policy.
So this is an ever-evolving kind of thing. I guess the world continues to change and you continue to have these conversations and work together to solve problems.
Ryan Bennett:
Yeah, it is ever-evolving. The American Egg Board recently took a look at the surveys that their members are receiving from their major customers and compared that with the framework. I think what they found was that the framework was really close to what was being asked by the major retail and food service companies to egg producers. And at the same time, this space changes all the time. What the emphasis, what the flavor of the day is, what the issue of the day is is always changing. And we developed the framework during COVID, and if you remember, there was a lot of social unrest, a lot of issues with race were in the news all the time, and you see that reflected in what the American Egg Board looked at, that we actually had more questions on those types of people type of issues than what people are asking today already in 2024.
So these things are changing all of the time, and it's up to us to remain relevant, and so this next year we're doing our second version of the framework where we'll re-look at things, try and make things better. But I do want to also emphasize, we're not just doing this for the retail and food service company. There's things that producers feel are very important to sustainability that I think it's also important for our retail and food service members to know and understand. It's not just a, "Let's build this to keep our customers happy." I think that is definitely a very important part of this and one of the big drivers for this that I had talked about before, but it's also about equipping them with things that they might not know that they need, biosecurity, as an example.
We have an entire section on biosecurity that we were working on well before AI really hit the United States, and that type of data would be very good for our members to have in their back pocket that, "Oh, look at all the work that my suppliers are already doing on biosecurity to focus on these issues."So if they're asked by their shareholders, by the media, by their customers, those types of things, they would already have that type of data.
Greg Shonefeld:
Ryan's program goes beyond the typical pass, fail, audit or ranking system. Instead of judging performance, it empowers members to see where they stand and chart their own course forward. While some members have dedicated sustainability teams leading on innovation, others are just getting started. Ryan and his team guide everyone from recognizing early progress to taking next steps, creating a model of continuous practical improvement across the industry. But how does this roundtable approach work?
Members start by self-assessing their sustainability metrics, measuring things like energy use and efficiency on an aggregate basis. Once they have this baseline, they can see how they stack up against others in their field. For those who want to go further, Ryan's team provides a roadmap guiding them step-by-step, whether it's setting reduction goals or adopting new energy practices. This aggregate data also lets the roundtable identify broader trends and even connect members with initiatives like state conservation funding to help them overcome barriers to progress. With this system, each member can decide how far they want to go on their sustainability journey, focusing on areas where they can make the biggest impact.
And the people who are involved in this, say from a farming perspective, who are adopting this continuous improvement mindset, I take it those would be the growers that have elected to be a part of this roundtable. So then they're coming in here, probably they're seeing a value in this, they want to keep growing, improving. Do you see them adopting this continuous improvement mindset well?
Ryan Bennett:
I've definitely seen a lot of movement. In some cases, we've got people wanting to go even further and faster than we can keep up with at times. I think that can be a good thing for sure. At the same time, there's been... When I started, there was a lot of people that were still saying, "You're talking about some of this greenhouse gas stuff. We're not getting asked about it," whereas now, they are, and figuring out how to help those folks I think is very important going forward.
Greg Shonefeld:
To be clear, the push for greenhouse gas reduction targets is primarily coming from retail and food service companies, especially those that are publicly traded. Many of these companies are under pressure from environmental NGOs to adopt science-based targets which set specific thresholds to curb emissions and limit global warming. These standards are trickling down to the farm level, meaning growers are increasingly being asked to report on emissions tied to production factors like feed. This shift towards carbon reporting is becoming the norm across the supply chain, reinforced by new regulations from bodies like the SEC.
Ryan Bennett:
I think that's going to be something that's going to be around for a long, long time, is reporting your carbon emissions, and that's before you even get to the fact that the Securities and Exchange Commission required some level of reporting for a lot of their companies that are registered with them. So anyways, there's a lot going on in the carbon space that maybe people weren't asked about when I got started that is now going to be just a way of doing business going forward in the future, in my opinion.
Greg Shonefeld:
I am curious, talking about labels, how should some of these farms or stakeholders navigate the balance between marketing their improvement and actually seeing improvement in their operations?
Ryan Bennett:
Yeah, I'm definitely not here to tell somebody how to run their business or what they should or shouldn't do, and we're pretty clear about that. But what we're also very clear about is that we like to keep it real and we want our members to keep it real as much as possible. So there's a lot of people saying that we're greenwashing things or not believing what we're doing. I think it's important to say what we mean and mean what we say in terms of what our actions are and how we're conducting ourselves, and so I do think that there needs to be some minimal level of science-based, data-based accuracy in what we're saying and what we're not saying. We're here to help be a part of that, but there's a lot of people doing creative things to market themselves, some of which is good, some of which is bad.
It's not my job to tell them how to do their marketing, but I do think that we're only going to set ourselves up for success by telling the truth and doing what we're saying that we're doing. And I mentioned that this is just the start for greenhouse gas emissions, for example. I think that what we're building needs to be built on solid ground and we need to keep our principles straight now and built on the right types of cornerstone or building blocks, so that way, in 10, 20, 30 years, we've lived that principle approach and we're not regretting doing something for short-term game now. And so that's my biggest message, is I want to basically be able to keep it real and do what we're saying that we're doing, and doing it correctly with the right kind of principles.
Greg Shonefeld:
Is there an element of maybe playing offense versus defense in this, or opportunity there? I guess I'm just thinking, if I hear, okay, greenhouse gas, that's something out there, I don't know, in society becoming an expectation, and then the retailers have to measure it and then we all have to fall in line. That's a little bit more defense, right? And where I wonder, some of these things that you're doing to define things and really say what sustainability is. If you get this whole supply chain in the room like you have, and that room is saying, "Hey, this is sustainability," shouldn't that mean something? Because you've gotten the people who are at the ground level looking at it, making it happen. I don't know. Could that be put out there?
Ryan Bennett:
I think you hit the nail on the head. So I think without an initiative like this, we are basically positioning ourselves for someone else to define who we are and what we do and why we do it, and the sustainability aspect of our businesses and what they think that looks like. I don't think that conversation should come fully defined from the industry. We're a multi-stakeholder group. We want to include the different voices, but certainly the industry should be a big vocal player in what those definitions look like, how they're going to be made into the future, where we're going to be investing our time and resources, and I think that's what we're trying to do here.
The offense versus defense, that's exactly how I describe it, is that we are doing a lot of defensive things in this space and we like talking about what is scary and how we are going to stop that from happening and how we're going to defend the industry. But at some point, we've got to go onto the offensive and I think work to a point to where we can start to do some of those types of things. Because I think the rules are going to be written for us if we're not at the table, and I think like we've always said, we've got a lot of good stories to tell. We just never tell them.
Well, this is an opportunity for you to package something and tell your story. This is an opportunity for you to tell your story to your customer, the public at large, but at the same time, I think doing that in a vacuum and creating that for yourselves would also be a mistake. It'd be the industry talking to the industry. It'd be everybody patting each other on the back, right? Like, "Look at how good we are. We are awesome."
That messaging is perfect for us, but at the same time, if you're not actually connecting with anybody and being I think real about whether what we're doing is working or not, the messaging and those types of things with the right audiences, then I don't think we're going to make any progress. We're not the only game in town for offensive coordinators, but I think we are a big part of the playbook if done correctly, and that's really what we're trying to build, is to get to a point to where we can get off defense on some of this stuff and maybe get on the offense.
Greg Shonefeld:
When it comes to communicating with consumers, there's a unique challenge. Unlike some industries where brands speak directly to the public, in agriculture, it's not always so straightforward. The retail companies in Ryan's group have some insights into consumer trends, but Ryan's focus is on aligning the entire supply chain first. From growers to processors to retailers, the goal is to build a unified approach that can resonate with the public. Only then can they start thinking about how to deliver a clear, consistent message that connects with consumers.
Ryan Bennett:
If you look at our supply chain and all the different players that are involved to get this product to that consumer, how are we going to come with any kind of message that is impactful to a consumer when we're not even all on the same page? And so we're focusing there before we can get maybe to the consumer piece. I won't just only complain about consumers, but consumers are extremely fickle. I think that's a fair thing to say, but at the same time, I think it's always important to keep them in mind. We're really trying to build that trust and that cohesion within the supply chain to get on the same page, so that way, if we are able to ever get to that point of speaking to the consumer, we're coming with a unified message.
I think that was a step one for us, but I did just want to mention, a lot of people love to talk about the consumer, what are people buying? But there is so much of this that is influenced by other groups as well. And I'm not saying that I like it or love it, or sometimes I don't hate it, sometimes I do, but the investor space, and I'm not just talking about activist investors, I'm talking about a lot of institutional investors are really putting a lot of focus on this. I mean, insurance companies, banks, large institutional investors like BlackRock, there's just a lot of other players in this space and I think people realize, and I'm not afraid of talking about it because I want people to have an understanding of what reality is. There's a lot of different people impacting this space right now.
Greg Shonefeld:
And that probably extends beyond agriculture, right?
Ryan Bennett:
Oh, for sure. Basically anybody that's publicly traded right now is receiving that same pressure, for sure. It just so happens that a lot of our emissions don't come from within our four walls of our company. A lot of it is grain that might be growing several states away, those types of things, so it's a challenge for us as an industry if you look at the complexity of our supply chain.
Greg Shonefeld:
Before we run out of time, I do want to touch on the other arm of what you're working on, which is animal welfare. And so at the same time you jumped into the US Roundtable for Sustainable Poultry and Eggs, you also stepped into this International Poultry Welfare Alliance, as I understand it. Can you talk about how animal welfare also ties into this conversation about sustainability?
Ryan Bennett:
So if you ask production, what is the number one issue? When I started, for sustainability, it would be animal welfare. It wouldn't have been greenhouse gas emissions, and that's not some sort of formal survey. It's just what I was hearing at the time. What that group, the International Poultry Welfare Alliance Group really realized is that these countries are going through the same challenges, but maybe a year or two or three years apart from one another, and shouldn't we all be working together on this rather than spending a lot of time and resources that are being wasted on these one-off issues that seem to be popping up really everywhere over time?
That group's global in nature and really working to, once again, build cohesion. It's also outcomes based. They have a key welfare indicators that are being measured on a lot of different birds around the world right now that looks at, I don't care where you are or how you're raising your birds, but how are they interacting with their environment? Are they doing well or are they not? And what is the outcome of that genetics plus environment that you're giving to those animals? What is the outcome for welfare?
We are learning a lot about each other around the world. Obviously in Europe, it's more of a regulatory model. In the United States, I'd say it's more based off of industry action, the marketplace. And then South America has probably more of an export-based model, and then Asia is really interesting to me from a welfare perspective because a lot of people think, "Well, they're growing so rapidly, they just want to be able to have enough chicken and eggs." And while that's true, their GDP is getting to a point to where you're starting to see those consumers act more like you would see in Oceania and Australia and North America and Europe.
It's not the same, it's not going to be the same thing that happens that happened here and in Europe in terms of how welfare has evolved as a topic, but they are on the verge of creating their own story. And that is a huge, huge consumer base for poultry and egg products already that continues to grow over time, because as we all know, as people enter the middle class, as they get more disposable income, the first thing that they want is animal protein, so we are trying to help be a part of that as an example.
We're also trying to help transparently communicate about what welfare is and what it isn't using outcomes-based key welfare indicators. So that group's done a lot of really interesting things. There are a lot of really neat, highly intelligent people from production, from retail, food service, from academia, looking at how do we measure welfare and how do we improve and communicate welfare?
Greg Shonefeld:
As we've heard from Ryan, sustainability in poultry and egg production isn't just about hitting metrics. It's about aligning diverse voices across the entire supply chain. From environmental goals to animal welfare, Ryan and his team work to create flexible outcome-based standards that resonate worldwide, acknowledging regional practices while still driving toward measurable improvements. The US Roundtable for Sustainable Poultry and Eggs along with the International Poultry Welfare Alliance facilitates a collaborative space for producers, retailers, and consumers to come together and build a unified approach to sustainability, one that allows for the experts who bring the products to market to take a proactive approach to defining best practices. By creating open dialogue and focusing on real-world data, Ryan's approach sets the industry on a path to continuous improvement, ensuring that these efforts are impactful, transparent, and ultimately sustainable.
Big thanks to Ryan Bennett for keeping it real and breaking down the realities of sustainability in the poultry and egg world. Ryan and his team's work brings together everyone in the supply chain, from farmers to retailers, around goals that actually make a difference, without losing sight of the real challenges on the ground. And hey, thank you for tuning into Eggheads today. If you're enjoying the show, make sure to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Instagram and LinkedIn. If you're a true Egghead, leave us a five-star rating. Your comments and feedback help us evolve the show. Until next time, I'm Greg Shonefeld. Talk to you soon.
One last question, Ryan, how do you prefer your eggs?
Ryan Bennett:
Definitely scrambled, definitely scrambled. My wife hates it, but I love scrambled eggs. I love an egg sandwich, just an egg sandwich. Not even an egg salad sandwich, although I also love an egg salad sandwich, but just an egg sandwich, breakfast sandwich in the morning on a Saturday is the best.
Greg Shonefeld:
So you'll just scramble eggs, put it on a piece of toast. Any mayo?
Ryan Bennett:
Put it on a piece of toast, salt and pepper, and if you really want to get fancy, a little bit of mustard. Don't knock it until you try it. You could even put a little bit of mayonnaise on the bread, and once again, don't knock it until you try it, but it's good.
Greg Shonefeld:
Mayonnaise is a must in my book. I love egg salad, so I could go for the scrambled eggs with some mayo on bread. I buy that.