OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness

In today's episode of "Church Doors Open," we're delving into a crucial conversation about how churches should approach and support individuals experiencing homelessness. Join us as we explore the dos and don'ts when someone in need walks through those doors. We'll discuss real-life scenarios, share insights from professionals working in the field, and uncover strategies for fostering empathy and genuine care within church communities. From the pitfalls of treating the homeless as a nuisance to the transformative power of compassionate outreach, this episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand their calling to serve the most vulnerable among us.

**Brandon Wallace (01:27)**: Explains that Search and Rescue involves actively seeking homeless individuals in Dallas County to provide aid, build relationships, and introduce them to Christianity.

- **TJ Detwiler (01:44)**: Describes the Men's Care Team's role as engaging with homeless men who visit their facility, fostering relationships, and offering help in knowing Jesus and getting off the streets.
- **TJ Detwiler (03:11)**: Recounts a personal story reflecting the harsh treatment his brother faced when visiting a church, which further alienated him from seeking help or returning to church.
- **Brandon Wallace (05:15)**: Notes the importance of treating homeless individuals with tact and honoring their dignity, highlighting the dehumanization they often face.
- **TJ Detwiler (15:38)**: Emphasizes the crucial role of relationships and social interactions in helping homeless individuals feel valued and connected, beyond just meeting their basic needs.
- **Zac Whitley (16:21)**: Shares that Watermark Church integrates relational and mentorship approaches into their support for the homeless, offering both immediate aid and more sustainable support via health and job programs.
- **Brandon Wallace (17:55)**: Discusses understanding and addressing the specific behaviors stemming from trauma among homeless individuals, urging empathy and mindful interaction.
- **TJ Detwiler (21:12)**: Explains the profound impact of trauma on cognitive functions and behavior, making it challenging for homeless individuals to plan or engage with help programs effectively.
- **TJ Detwiler (31:34)**: Clarifies that effective help often involves multiple interventions and numerous interactions due to the complexities in the lives of homeless individuals.
- **Zac Whitley (36:55)**: Reflects on the challenges of imparting help, emphasizing the importance of listening and adapting aid to the needs of homeless individuals without enforcing a predefined plan.
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Creators & Guests

Host
Wayne Walker
CEO and Pastor Wayne Walker serves as the CEO and Pastor to the homeless at OurCalling. In 2001, Wayne, along with his wife Carolyn, started serving the homeless community in Dallas. They founded OurCalling in 2009. During his youth, Wayneā€™s family actively pursued the scriptural commandment to ā€œlove your neighbor as yourselfā€ by modeling the life of Jesus to scores of foster children whose own origins represented generations of human brokenness, dysfunction, sexual exploitation, and abuse. Early exposure to these destructive forces set him on a path to recognize the long-term effects of trauma, which often lead to homelessness. While completing his Masterā€™s Degree in Cross-Cultural Ministry from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wayne befriended and ministered to men and women in the homeless community. During that time he began to establish personal, discipleship-oriented relationships with homeless individuals, many in the same urban setting where he and his family continue to work today.
Editor
Orange and Teal Productions
caroline@orangeandteal.org
Designer
Sarah Katherine

What is OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness?

A Podcast by OurCallingā€”the goal is to be a learner. What can we learn about serving those experiencing homelessness? Even though we have years of experience, can we step back, take a fresh look, and rethink everything we know? OurCalling is a Christian nonprofit (501 c3) serving the homeless community throughout Dallas County in Texas. Our team helps people get to know Jesus and get off the streets every day. Last year, we helped individuals exit homelessness over 1,300 times. We have a facility in downtown Dallas, and our street outreach teams visit over 4,000 locations throughout the county. We serve about 10,000 individuals experiencing homelessness each year. We partner with the most amazing organizations and recognize that we are stronger when we work together.

Wayne:

Today, we're gonna talk about what churches should do and maybe shouldn't do when someone experiencing homelessness comes to their door. How do you address a homeless guy walking into the lobby or showing up at your church service? Maybe some of the things that have happened bad, but how we can learn and care for each other with a church partner and with folks that work with the homeless community every day. Who is our calling? What our calling do to help the homeless?

Wayne:

The nonprofit. We care with dignity. Our calling Can't

TJ Detwiler:

help but think about the definition of Christian

Wayne:

We connect with intentionality called our calling to our calling we build community with integrity. Calling our calling This is our calling and our podcast, a word on the streets about homelessness. Well, Today, we're gonna be talking about, churches and churches that have homeless friends that show up in their parking lot. Right? Someone experiencing homelessness shows up at a church service, and and so here I'm here with Zach and Brandon and TJ.

Wayne:

So tell us who you are and what you do and where you work.

Zac Whitley:

Hey. I'm Zach Whitley. I'm the director of city engagement at Watermark Community Church in Dallas.

Wayne:

Awesome.

Brandon Wallace:

And I'm Brandon Wallace. I'm the search and rescue manager for Our Calling.

TJ Detwiler:

And I'm TJ Detwiler. I'm the men's care team manager for Our Calling.

Wayne:

Wow. And so what is search and rescue in men's care manager? What does that mean? What do y'all do?

Brandon Wallace:

So search and rescue were basically care ministers that jump in vans, and we go out all over Dallas County searching for the homeless, interacting with people, building relationships, leading them to Christ, and seeing what we can do to help them off the streets.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah. And for the men's care team, we're here local in the facility. And in our each day, we have about 2 or 300 men that walk into this building, and we're here to meet those guys, develop relationships, and ask them our 2 vital questions. How can I help you know Jesus, and will you let me help you off the streets?

Wayne:

So same job in the building, outside the building. Mhmm. That's cool. Zach, you're at Watermark. Disclaimer, I go to Watermark.

Wayne:

TJ, you go to Watermark. We have a number of staff members that don't go to Watermark, some that do. But we wanted to talk today about this because churches have this challenge, or at least for many, it feels like a challenge to them. What do we do? There's a homeless guy that showed up on our campus, and they'll call us once you know, there's a homeless guy panhandling, or he shows up at our our singles event, needs all the food, or, you know, someone's in in the parking lot, or someone's behind our building.

Wayne:

What's that your church has taken a very strategic approach to doing this. But before we talk about that, let's talk about some of the bad examples. You know, we've had churches that call us and say, hey, there's one behind the building. Can y'all pick them up? Like, we're animal control or something.

Wayne:

Right? Or they look at a homeless person, like, they're less than, like, there's this person on campus, can you get them off? Because they're not they don't fit in with our community, and we want them to go out. From you 2 guys, from your perspective, what do you think it makes, one of our homeless friends, our neighbors, feel like when they get treated like less than by a church?

TJ Detwiler:

Well, I've got one, and it's actually a a more personal story. You know, I used to be homeless myself, and my brother Adam is still homeless. And he was in Dallas, and I've been trying for over 10 years to try to get him to come to church, to try to share the gospel with him, to try to to that moment when he says, okay. I'm ready. And there was a time that he finally said, I'm gonna go to church, and I wasn't with him, but he actually went.

TJ Detwiler:

He's like, just look up on the map. See where see where there's one local. What do you recommend? And I recommended a good church. And he spends most of the money he has.

TJ Detwiler:

He takes an Uber over there. Now you think he's homeless, so he comes inside with a huge camping backpack. Right? And he walks in the doors, and the first greeting he gets is security. Right?

TJ Detwiler:

He gets security greeting, which I understand. This person they don't know, they've never seen him before, comes in with a huge backpack. Who knows what's in it? And in our world today, I get that. But it wasn't taken to another room.

TJ Detwiler:

It wasn't taken somewhere in private. Right there in the lobby, pour out your backpack, and they make him dump out all of his belongings. Think a man on the street's homeless. There's dirty clothes in there. There's all kind of private stuff.

TJ Detwiler:

It's everything that he owns as everybody else is coming into the church. Yeah. Hundreds of people walking past him, several security guards around him, pouring out his belongings, his life belongings on the floor in front of everyone. Now think about that. For a decade, I've been trying to get him to come to church and trying to get him to just walk in the doors and hear the gospel and hear a sermon and go and be loved.

TJ Detwiler:

The first thing he gets though is, who are you? You're dangerous. You're not welcome. And he's embarrassed and shamed. And he hasn't asked me about church since.

TJ Detwiler:

And so we gotta think about that. Right? When churches are are having people come in, there is that need for security, people we don't know, people coming in with large bags, this kind of thing, but there's gotta be a balance between security and love. Right? How do we keep ourself our our property and our members safe, but also love those who are coming in the door that have all of their belongings with them because they don't have a home.

TJ Detwiler:

They don't have a car.

Brandon Wallace:

Right. Absolutely. I mean, there's tactful ways that you can address somebody that you don't know or or maybe looks a little bit strange and, do it in a way that still honors the dignity of of that person. You know, we talk about all the time here at Our Calling how a homeless person will go, Wayne, help me with this, what, 2 months on average without hearing their name.

TJ Detwiler:

Mhmm.

Brandon Wallace:

And so they they already feel less than by the way they're they're treated and perceived. And so when they walk into a church and, you know, something like that happens, it it just exacerbates, you know, all their all their thoughts.

Wayne:

The church should be a place where you feel welcomed. Yeah. You know, it's it's sad that, you know, you watch a TV show that I watched growing up, probably shouldn't when I was a kid, but cheers. You You know, it's a bar where everybody feels welcome. Everybody knows your name.

Wayne:

It feels comfortable. But then you go to a church, and you don't usually get that feeling. If you don't look the same, don't smell the same, haven't dressed the same, you know, you obviously one of these things is not like the other. Right? Like the Sesame Street song, someone walks in and they don't look right, they get that kind of feeling.

Wayne:

It's not just the snicker from the kid or the parents that holds their kids clothes. It's the church staff themselves that often can be very off putting Yeah. To someone who's there. And let's be honest, why are they there at church? They're there because they're hungry for truth.

Wayne:

Yeah. You know, they're not looking for a group of people to pray on. They're looking for some kind of hope, the same reason that everybody else comes into church. You know, you think of a single mom in her car, pulls up to a church, knocks on the door in the middle of the week. She's looking for some help.

Wayne:

I have a friend that used to be a volunteer with us regularly. She now lives in North Dallas. But she presented herself at 15 different churches as homeless as a test. So she has 2 kids, single mom with 2 kids, and she and her kids got in the car and they kinda filled it up with stuff and, you know, bunch of packages and stuff from McDonald's and fast food. And she presented herself at 15 different churches just to see how they would respond.

Wayne:

She was on the outreach committee for her church and wanted just to kinda get a a pulse of what North Texas was like. And she went to all these churches, and only one single church asked her if she knew the lord, if she had a church home, and welcomed him and said, we would love to minister to you and your family. We'd love for you guys to be a part of our community. The rest of the churches were very clinical or even wouldn't open the door for her. Would through the glass, tell her you gotta go somewhere else.

Wayne:

Or would say, you have to fill out this form, and we'll give you a gas voucher. But if you've ever been here before, you can't come back. And all this other mess, only 1 church said, do you have a church family? We'd love for you to be a part of our church family. Do you know the lord?

Wayne:

And was welcoming. And to me, that's just a slap in the face. How does that, you know, how how how does that feel when you think of the words of Jesus? You know, Jesus told us to love our neighbors. And even a lot of the people he was around, he was around the poor.

Wayne:

He was around people that were prostitutes and tax collectors and people that were lepers and peep kind of the outcast. And he kind of spoke against, you know, putting the, you know, the the rich people in the front row and the poor people on the back row. How do you think Jesus would respond to a church that would not welcome people in need?

TJ Detwiler:

Wow. I think about the woman who had to fight her way through the crowd, who the disciples even wanted to keep back, who just within a a tiny bit of faith reached out to touch his garment. Right? And even when he turned around with surprise and the guys the the disciples are like, oh, we're so sorry. Like, she shouldn't have touched you, and what do we need to do and all this stuff?

TJ Detwiler:

And he's like, no. No. No. Listen. Let her through.

TJ Detwiler:

Let her through. Please let her through. Mhmm. Because the tiny bit of faith that she has just to touch my robe has healed her. Right?

TJ Detwiler:

So I think there's so many times that we have these things set up to keep people at a distance when the Lord is like, no. No. Clear the path. Let them come through.

Wayne:

Like the children. Let the children come to me. Yeah.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah. He he

Brandon Wallace:

he dined with tax collectors and sinners, and, you know, that's one of the things that he got in trouble over.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Wow. I'm glad churches don't aren't full of tax collectors and sinners. You know? You know, if they stop everybody that looked weird, I think I'd get tackled at the door. Yep.

Wayne:

You know? But some churches have a different response. You know? And Watermark is doing a great job. You know?

Wayne:

And who knows? They may not have always done a good job, but right now, they're doing a great job of welcoming people. I'm sure at Watermark what's it like, Zach? Do y'all have people throughout the week that come up to the church?

Zac Whitley:

Yeah. Absolutely. There's certainly no perfect church or perfect process, and we've benefited greatly from just our learnings and our work, with you guys. And I would say, any given week, we're getting what we would call just a walk up. Any area, any nature, any sort of conflict, people looking for things or crisis of marriage or mental health issues, not just homelessness.

Zac Whitley:

I'd say we get 3 or 4 a day that walk up to the church, not knowing where to turn, not knowing a best next step, but we see it as just a huge opportunity, to get to love and serve those that walk in our front door. I can only imagine what it would take to have nothing left, no support system, no safety net to turn to strangers at a church that you either neighbor or you found on Google and you decided to walk in and ask for help?

Wayne:

Yeah. In our mobile app, we have a list of, you know, of course, homeless shelters and addiction recovery centers and medical services, but churches. And sometimes I wonder if even the churches should be in there because sometimes churches don't seem to be as many of them don't seem to be as welcoming. We've actually had churches contact us and say, take us off the app. Wow.

Wayne:

Because we don't want homeless people showing up at our church, which is really, really sad. Yeah. So let's start the conversation of of we talked about why kind of a homeless person would come to a church. Right? They're looking for connections.

Wayne:

They're looking for some kind of help. And we've talked about some of the bad stories. Right? What what is what is the goal of a church? Let's just talk about that.

Wayne:

Honestly, kind of random wide question, but when a church a church exists, for what purpose? And I know that's kinda wild and someone's gonna judge what you say here. Right? But what's the purpose of church? Just from all y'all's perspective.

Brandon Wallace:

Right? I'm guessing it has something to to do with making disciples.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Yeah. I would hope so.

Zac Whitley:

To glorify him. Yeah. To welcome in his family. Yeah. Be a part of calling people home.

TJ Detwiler:

To love your neighbor as yourself. Yeah. And I think to be a picture of Christ to the dying world.

Brandon Wallace:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Wayne:

And churches have these, groups within the church that they recognize, hey. That's a specific group. Let's minister to them in a different elementary ministry, maybe a junior high ministry, high school ministry, ministry for elder, older folks, you know, the legacy ministry, old folks of the church. We have a ministry maybe for married couples or almost married or about to not be married, whatever. We have all these different ministries.

Wayne:

Why do you feel that churches, especially those that are in urban settings and see a lot of poverty, often don't have specific ministry towards the poor that come in their church? I feel it's interesting. I was talking to a church that has a lot of homeless folks that come to their church. And I was asking them, you have a youth pastor? Yep.

Wayne:

You have a singles pastor? Yep. You have one for men women's ministry? Yep. Do you have anybody that's specifically for the urban needs of the church?

Wayne:

Why do you guys feel that that's not a bigger priority?

TJ Detwiler:

I think it's because people don't feel equipped. Right? Mhmm. You have a youth pastor because he used to be a youth and he knows what it's like to be a youth. Oh, yeah.

TJ Detwiler:

You have a marriage ministry because you have an older couple who knows what it's like to be a younger married couple. Right? You have a recovery ministry because somebody knows what it's like to have been an addict and to come out of that successful. Right? And I think with homeless ministry, it's really hard to for people to relate and to understand how to engage, And not a lot of churches have somebody who used to be homeless Mhmm.

TJ Detwiler:

Who has found their way out of that. And so who leads that? How do we engage with these people? What do we do? Right?

TJ Detwiler:

What's what's the goal? What are the solutions? And I think a lot of churches don't have those answers and don't know how to engage.

Brandon Wallace:

Yeah. I think that I think that's true. I mean, the closest you're gonna get is probably a local missions pastor or outreach pastor. And, but, you know, for a lot of those folks, again, they, you know, they they've never been homeless. Maybe they've never even volunteered at a organization serving the homeless.

Brandon Wallace:

So, yeah, it's it's just they feel very unequipped. And and in in a lot of cases, I think just intimidated by the homeless.

Wayne:

And when they wanna get involved, what often happens is they just try to figure out how to do some kind of felt need ministry. Right? Churches will start a homeless ministry, you know, 20 years ago. That's kinda how our calling started. We were the homeless ministry of of a church.

Wayne:

And so, you know, they'll gather some people around, they'll put some food together, they'll go around town and pass out food. But in many churches, it really doesn't go beyond that, just kind of those felt needs. And I always think that's kinda weird. You wouldn't serve any other group in the church that way. You wouldn't gather all the single moms and hand them a bag of stuff and say, hey.

Wayne:

I hope it gets better. You know, you wouldn't gather the high school kids or the senior citizens of your church and do a feeding. Right? We only use feeding when we talk about homeless people or cows, which is really terrible. Right?

Wayne:

We we would figure out how to minister uniquely to the needs of these people. With kids, you'd play Xbox and talk while you're playing games, you know, you talk about, you know, the challenges that a teenager has. And with a singles ministry, you do kind of the same thing. Where where do you feel like churches could minister to people in their communities that are dealing with extreme poverty or homelessness? What are some creative ways that you think that they could actually engage people that are homeless?

TJ Detwiler:

I think one of the greatest needs for somebody who's on the streets is relationships. Right? We're out there on our own alone 15 hours a day just in my own head. Right? I'm the only one I'm having conversations with, and those don't always go well.

TJ Detwiler:

So I think the biggest need that a church can provide is help with relationships. So it's not just about a meal or a shower, which it needs. It's about sitting down at a table with somebody and just talking with them, developing a relationship. Ask them about their life. Tell them about yours.

TJ Detwiler:

Right? It's not even about giving them stuff or getting a hotel or paying for all these things or whatever. It's just about developing a relationship so they don't feel like they're the only person on the planet and so that they actually start to believe I do matter and people care, and I think that's important.

Zac Whitley:

That's good, TJ. We're prepared as a church with what we would call an on call system to kinda meet those more immediate short term needs. I'd be happy to explain more on that. And, Wayne, this might be further down the road from your question, even beyond meeting those immediate needs, we wrap relationship and mentorship around everything that we do. And so we're fortunate at church like Watermark.

Zac Whitley:

We know it can be intimidating to walk in on a Sunday morning. We're equipped with our coffee shop, and people are ready thinking beyond hospitality of engaging people. And maybe they've got a why they're sitting in that seat in the coffee shop alone and not inside our main auditorium. Or we've got the chance to point people to Watermark Health, where they're getting ministered to, not just for their physical needs, but their spiritual needs and connected to other ministries that have to do with recovery or economic well-being. And so, we got financial literacy, which many homeless walk through as an entry, as a front door into the church or a jobs connection program, even entrepreneurship as they graduate and advance, based on their level of stability.

Wayne:

Brandon, you, I think, went and spoke to the Watermark staff about trauma informed. Right? And I feel like that's very different. You kinda talked about it a little bit in your own experience of being homeless of the trauma that you experience. How does the trauma that someone experiences on the homeless in the homeless community, how should that be approached in, you know, just engaging someone in that space?

Wayne:

Yeah.

Brandon Wallace:

It's a good question. I mean, I would say, you know, first, just just recognizing that somebody who's experienced trauma, somebody who's homeless, you know, you might see some things that are weird that, you know, they might be talking to themselves. They might, you know, have some kind of strange behavior. And I just think it's important, you know, to not, the best you can, try not to let that freak you out. Because just because somebody is acting strange or different than, you know, the normal person that's walking through the door, you know, doesn't mean that they're inherently violent.

Brandon Wallace:

And and I think that that's one of the misconceptions or assumptions that that people have about the homeless, is that they're they're violent, they're unstable, And in some cases, that that could be true just like with any any person. But but someone who's experienced trauma, you you know, they they need a a special level of of care.

Zac Whitley:

Braden was really helpful when he came when you did that training for us. You gave me this great imagery of thinking about the Netflix special stranger things, and living in the upside down world. And that upside down world is just a little bit more gray. It's foggy, full of shadows, and just generally creepy things, things that you wouldn't see in your normal world. Mhmm.

Zac Whitley:

And the language and the visual that you gave us of when you've experienced trauma and you've lived in that upside down world for so long, the brain and the body kind of wants to return to that upside down world. Mhmm. And it's hard to pull someone from that without truly diving in deep, sitting with them for a long time, being invested in a relationship, and that gave us such helpful visuals and language to train our staff.

Wayne:

Yeah. So we all love fight or flight. Right? It's a god given thing that Yeah. When something happens, we kinda jump and we we kinda freak out for a moment.

Wayne:

Car's about to hit you on the side of the road, you jump out of the way. A dog's running towards you. You know, you kinda freak out. Well, our friends that are experiencing homelessness kinda get get stuck in that mode because all day long, trauma or danger is all around them. They're can't sleep well because someone's gonna wake them up with a brick.

Wayne:

Right? Someone's gonna wake them up to try to steal their shoes or assault them in the middle of the night. Everywhere they go, they're not supposed to be there. They're not wanted. The only person who may call their name is a police officer who just stops them for no reason at all and is gonna run their warrant.

Wayne:

You know, if I'm walking down the street, I won't get stopped. But if, you know, if a homeless friend's walking down the street, they may get pulled over and by 3 different cops in a row. Right? And so you kinda they get stuck in this fight or flight mode, and it causes such a a hijack of their brain that they're always kind of on alert and can't get out of that mode, and it causes, you know, those weird behaviors. And if we're not sensitive to that, just to pause and recognize that this person's lived through hell.

Wayne:

Now someone that lives has lived through hell needs us to to approach them tenderly and with a kindness and a grace that is beyond what, you know, we would need sometimes or expect anytime but would want if we were in that same space.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah. There's this this wild thing that happens with trauma too is it really messes with our the frontal part of our brain. Right? It messes with our dopamine receptors. It messes with all those things.

TJ Detwiler:

And this is gonna do things like it messes with our memory. It messes with how we view the future and thinking even about tomorrow, how we logically plan our next steps. All these different things happen. And so what trauma does, and sometimes you'll experience this when you're talking to somebody who's homeless, is you can't look past today. It's hard to think about what's gonna happen in a month.

TJ Detwiler:

It's hard if somebody sits down and lays out this logical plan with me to follow it and walk through it to success. And that's why we see failure over and over where somebody gets the first step and they'll fail there, or they'll forget what that part of the process was or all these different things that happened because the trauma has caused so much damage to them. And it can take months months of stability before you start to think clearly, before that starts to wear off.

Wayne:

And it's not just the trauma. You haven't slept well Yeah. In years. You haven't eaten a healthy meal in years. And so I know if I miss a couple of hours of sleep, man, I'll act like a fool.

Wayne:

And so I can't imagine not sleeping well, not eating well, all the abuse on the streets, the environment, the mosquitoes, the fire ants, the heat, the cold, all that adds together. And then you try to walk into a church. Yeah. And you just wanna sit down and worship. You know, most of our friends that have told us nightmare stories about going to churches, they just wanted to worship.

Wayne:

They just wanted to sneak in the back and listen to the music and get a good sermon and sneak out, which is what most people wanna do in church. Yeah. In that moment, though, they get traumatized by a place that's supposed to comfort them, that's supposed to welcome them, that's supposed to greet them.

Zac Whitley:

Yeah.

TJ Detwiler:

And like Brandon said earlier, it reinforces the thought that they already have in their head that I don't belong in there. Right. They don't want me in there. Right? And it just reinforces that and reinforces the trauma.

Brandon Wallace:

Yeah. And and there are those those bad approaches that churches can have or or individuals can have that we talked about earlier, they're they're actually expecting that, probably. They're they're not expecting to be, you know, treated kindly and and with dignity. And so, it it's just important, you know, to take that you know, go the extra mile and and show that person, you know, that you truly care.

Wayne:

So what should a church do? Right? Sunday morning, guys in the parking lot. Maybe he's just walking in the door, and you think he wants to sit down and worship. We're not talking about panhandling.

Wayne:

We can talk about that in a minute. Guys panhandling in the parking lots. But what should a church do? What would you want the other staff at Watermark to be doing when a person walks in who obviously, physically, you look at them and you're like, this guy's been sleeping outside for a while. What would you want them to do, Zach?

Zac Whitley:

Well, I'd say what we've done is started with a relationship, with a partnership, with an organization like Our Calling who's been able to equip us. And lots of the things that you guys talk about as the non Our Calling expert at the table, those can be really scary and intimidating and almost like I could freeze up in not knowing what to do or how to deal and address with some of those things that you outlined. And yet what we do and what we talk about and what we train on is, I know I've been uniquely equipped by the holy spirit, and I know what it looks like to love my neighbor or treat others how I wanna be treated. And so we enter into conversations with our homeless neighbors, very similarly to we would as anyone else, but with a healthy understanding and wisdom that there's probably some trauma and some baggage. And so I tell all of our team, we get to train twice a month on what we call a staff on call.

Zac Whitley:

So at any given time, 2 males, 2 females are ready and prepared, to welcome, greet someone into our church. And our church is is open 7 days a week, basically, from 6 AM until 10 PM. And so we have walk walk ins often. And so we train them to to receive them and love them and care for them just like anyone else. And yet there's a healthy respect and a healthy training needed, to engage in the question of of homelessness, and that starts with just a quick needs assessment.

Zac Whitley:

I'd say 50% of the time people are coming in and honestly not not asking for anything, but they want a break and they wanna find some rest. They want some brief shelter to either cool down or to warm up or to charge their phone, in the church should be a really safe space to do that. And so they're not met with secure security guards first, kinda like your story alluded to. They're met by a staff of Watermark, guys like me that get to welcome them into our church. And then we get to have a real and honest conversation learning about their history, learning if they have any friends or family, taking an assessment on the questions that you have trained us to ask.

Zac Whitley:

And so we ask, do you know Jesus, and can we help you get off the streets stealing our callings verbiage? And depending on how they answer those questions, we get to share our faith with them, and we also get to point them to what we know is the next best step is coming to our calling and connecting them to your team.

Wayne:

Wow. I love that. And and I love that because guys have thought about what we're gonna do when it happens, not if. Mhmm. Right?

Wayne:

And you've, I guess, kind of assigned staff as your job Yeah. Today, you know, to do whatever. It's your job. Just so I could someone's job to make the coffee or someone's job to pass out the bulletins. It's some people's job.

Wayne:

You're gonna be in this space ready to greet someone, and we're gonna equip you and ready for that conversation.

Zac Whitley:

Yeah.

TJ Detwiler:

That's right.

Wayne:

So you guys do training twice a month Mhmm. For different staff members to get ready for that. And the conversation, I'm just repeating what I heard you say, was about relational just like you would anybody else that comes in the church. Yeah. And really helping them kinda figure out, hey.

Wayne:

How can we help you in the way the church does, which is helping people know the Lord, but these people also have some physical needs. And, you know, if you need help getting off the streets, we have some friends that that can do that. Mhmm. You told me a story earlier. If you could, share that story that just happened recently.

Zac Whitley:

Yeah. Yeah. And so, again, practically speaking, our our staff on call is for a whole week, and so we're prepared for those conversations basically from Tuesday to Tuesday. So much so that we have to tell our bosses, hey. If if someone walks up, I'm gonna have to step away from a meeting.

Zac Whitley:

And so we prioritize anyone and everyone that comes in through that door for a whole week or in this case, calls in on the phone. And so I met a new friend about 4 weeks ago. His name is Wilford. And Wilford called from South Dallas where we happen to have another Watermark campus, and he saw Watermark Church on the sign. Wasn't willing to go in, but he called the main number.

Zac Whitley:

And he told me as I was the first person to receive him through the phone, he basically led with, I can't be dealing and I can't be stealing anymore. There's gotta be a better way. And so over the course of 3 weeks, we talked every single day. I outlined his clear next step of our calling. I took an assessment of, does he know Jesus?

Zac Whitley:

Does he have family? He could articulate his faith and got to talk about where his hope comes from and, what does it look like to take a next step to get unstuck, and yet he didn't really know how to ask for help. And so I was able to connect him to your team where he got placed into a short term shelter for basically 24 hours. He had to give a yes to get there. He had to give another yes to then go into some sober living in Houston.

Zac Whitley:

All the while, my one week of staff on call has now turned into a 5 week in going relationship with my new friend, Wilford, where we start every day with a good morning. How are you doing? How was your day yesterday? And we end every day, at least with me, providing some encouragement. Like, it took a lot of courage.

Zac Whitley:

It took a lot of bravery. You had to say yes. People care about you. The Lord cares about you. And now I've got to send him a care package.

Zac Whitley:

I've got to share a Bible and write notes in it with key verses. And I anticipate and I hope that a relationship like this, will go for weeks to come. And all that because I was prepared, not just because I was staff on call for that week, but but because I was equipped with the tools, the resources, and the understanding how to engage in the discussion.

Wayne:

And what's crazy about this story is you've never face to face met this guy. Oh, yeah. All over the phone.

Zac Whitley:

All over the phone. And, that day that he gave our calling, someone on your team, the yes to go to Houston, we we would talk a few times a day for 5 or 10 minutes Yeah. Just to figure things out. And that morning where he knew he was gonna get his Greyhound bus ticket and head to Houston, he said, Zach, do you have FaceTime? Like, does your FaceTime work?

Zac Whitley:

Like, I gotta see you. I wanna talk to you. And you could tell his the language he used, the amount that he talked, the joy that he had, Obviously, many things are changing or changing in his life, and we got to FaceTime and talk for 30, 40 minutes, right before he went to Houston. And now I'm connected to his family. Like, he trusts me to reach out to his family where, unfortunately, because of past sins or breaking trust, his sister and his brother are calling me with a trust but verify.

Zac Whitley:

And I've gotten to basically share not Wilford's whole story, but get to share that staff on call experience with them, getting to know them, inviting them into my life, inviting them into Watermark, learning about their histories and everything beyond just Wilford who was my staff on call 5 weeks ago.

Wayne:

That's awesome, man.

TJ Detwiler:

What a

Wayne:

cool story of just something that happened because you decided, yes, I'm gonna take the on call, and I'm gonna answer the phone. Mhmm. I'm gonna step out of that meeting and take a call because it's my turn. It's my shift. Right?

Wayne:

And then you pursued a relationship with a guy. In in in what's cool with that is you just didn't say, hey, this is a church and there's a nonprofit that works with the homeless. You should go there. But that you connected this relationship where you're still in a relationship with him, connected into a relationship with our team in ways that we could help. And, you know, we didn't just send him to Houston to get him out of Dallas.

Wayne:

We specifically sent him to Houston. Why, TJ?

TJ Detwiler:

So, actually, the the funny thing about Wilford is he's he's a good example of this too. It's because you hear that story and you think everything just worked out perfectly. Like, that's just great, and that's not the case. Wilford was often unreliable. He often didn't call back.

TJ Detwiler:

He was often ready for an Uber ride when we weren't ready to send it. We'd send an Uber and he wouldn't get in it. You know, there are all these things that happen along the way that made it a little difficult, to be honest, just because life on the streets is difficult, and we understand. We had to be really patient as we are. And as I advise anyone listening to this, you need to be.

TJ Detwiler:

Right? But the cool thing is when he finally did, when he finally accepted the call, when he finally spent some time talking to us, he never came into our facility, but he ended up having that conversation with Andrew. Right? Because the guy on our team? Yeah.

TJ Detwiler:

Because when he didn't come in, I was trying to think of how do I still get this guy the time that he needs and still have us be available when it's not always I'm not I'm not always there. Right? And so I even connected him to somebody else on our team. So there's 2 of us now. So when he calls, one of us is free, and Andrew spends time talking to him, spends time giving him these suggestions, spends time telling him about all these programs, spends time doing that with him.

TJ Detwiler:

And then once he found the program he needed, we had that intentional conversation, like, what are your needs? He needed recovery. Recovery community. Mhmm. Right?

TJ Detwiler:

Long term, he needed those things. It was gonna take a while to get him into that. And so in the meanwhile, we got him into a shelter, got him stable there. Right? And then from the shelter, once the program opened, then we got him into that.

TJ Detwiler:

Right? So there's a lot of things that happened that didn't seem perfect, but he kept he kept calling. He kept being willing. Right? Yeah.

Zac Whitley:

He showed a willingness. Yep. Y'all gave him a few options, and, I'm glad he picked Houston. I'm glad he picked anywhere other than Dallas, probably.

Wayne:

Away from the playground and the people you've

TJ Detwiler:

been fooling around with.

Wayne:

Yeah. The

Zac Whitley:

language that we use, change your playmates, change your playground.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah.

Zac Whitley:

And that's already been healthy for him as he shares about his 6 new roommates in his apartment, and not the 6 old roommate roommates when he called.

Wayne:

In the house. Yeah.

Zac Whitley:

The dope house, in a surrounding neighborhood, and just the difference in him is just night and day.

Wayne:

And that's really the goal is to connect people with the resources they need. He's now in a healthy community, and that's kind of one of our goals here is to see people in a community with integrity is what we call it. We're not just trying to get people off the streets. We're not trying to just get them into housing. Everybody that shows up in our parking lot has been in housing before, but really to get them into healthy community, community with integrity, and to get him into a place.

Wayne:

And you guys gave him options, but the place that he chose was 1 we a partner in Houston so that he can start that long recovery process. Yeah. So when a church comes, to us and says, hey, you know, there's a homeless guy in our parking lot or we have lots of homeless folks that show up in our in our front lobby. What do you guys all suggest that that church do from the church's perspective and from a nonprofit that works with the homeless community's perspective? What would you tell that church to do?

Brandon Wallace:

I mean, I would tell them to do exactly what Zach talked about. You know, find a way it might look totally different than the way it does at Watermark. But, you you know, get a team of people, get get some some members there, and and equip them to go out and engage those people and just and just build a relationship. Do do a a basic assessment. You know?

Brandon Wallace:

Ask them how long they've been out. You know? If they have family, what, you know, you know, what their current needs are. Just just really start there to get to know them rather than simply calling, you know, a place and saying, hey. Come come and check on them.

Brandon Wallace:

Mhmm.

TJ Detwiler:

Yeah. I would say, from my perspective, when when you're engaging with somebody, I think a big part of is asking what they want. Right? In that conversation, we're gonna figure out what the needs are. We're gonna try to understand what's gonna be best, whether it's gonna be recovery or whether it's gonna be a discipleship or whether it's gonna be shelter, you know, what these different things are.

TJ Detwiler:

But a lot of times, we picture somebody, and we wanna put them in the box we think they fit in. Mhmm. Right? This person's an addict. Obviously, you need recovery.

TJ Detwiler:

I'm only offering you rehabilitation and nothing else because that's your biggest need from my perspective. Mhmm. Right? What if that person's not ready for that? Would I get him into a shelter?

TJ Detwiler:

Would I help him with something shorter term? Would I continue that relationship if they wanted to stay on the streets a little bit longer? Right? I think there's that thing that we miss, we always ask we we always miss asking them what they want. Mhmm.

TJ Detwiler:

And how do I help you get to that? There's this big thing in in spiritual leadership that I think the I think the goal is we've gotta help them get to where they are, from where they are, to the next step, right, of where God wants them to be. And sometimes we're always trying to hit that home run. You know? Mhmm.

TJ Detwiler:

Where do we want them to be? What apartment do they need to get into? How do we get them off the streets? It's just about finding that next step and helping them decide what that is.

Brandon Wallace:

Yeah. I mean, my natural tendency is to, you know, try to come at them with my agenda, my plan for them. And, so it's, yeah, such a good point to ask them, you know, what they want. Yeah.

TJ Detwiler:

What do

Wayne:

you think, Zach?

Zac Whitley:

I think it it's definitely most frustrating. The worst of me goes in as a problem solver

Wayne:

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley:

And gets frustrated when those steps don't work or when someone won't take my advice, with the solutions that I've outlined for them. And the realities are, most people aren't ready. The realities are a story like Wilford's, happens maybe 5% of the time, maybe. Y'all would know those percentages. But for the church to be prepared, to be hospitable, to give a dignified response, to really love those and be prepared because they will come.

Zac Whitley:

They will walk in. And how would you wanna be treated if you were in that circumstance and and you walked in those doors?

Wayne:

So what I'm hearing you guys say is to minister to them like there were anybody else in the church and not to treat them different, to really figure out what's best for them by listening to them. Yeah. Nobody wants a stranger to tell them what they should do with their life. No. None of us would.

Wayne:

Right? But to listen to someone, get to know them, and walk with them, you know, it's easy in the church world to look at things like sin and say, hey, that's the biggest issue in your life. Well, their biggest issue in their life may not be their drug of choice. It may not be their lifestyle. It may be that they just need to take the next step closer to Jesus and let him deal with those things.

Wayne:

And that next step might just be a relationship where we meet for coffee once a week with

TJ Detwiler:

a guy. It might be a phone

Wayne:

conversation that builds this relationship because then you have relational equity when now the guy calls you because he trusts you. Now you've got some relational equity with his family now. Right? And that's kind of what you guys are doing when you're visiting people under bridges and visiting people in our facility. I mean, a stranger doesn't walk up into our facility or you guys walk up to someone under a bridge and say, hey, I've got a brilliant plan for the rest of your life.

Wayne:

You need to trust me and go that way. No. I mean, you're building relational equity with 1 person at a time, and a church can do that in a lobby with someone carrying a camping backpack just like they could someone carrying their gold leaf new $80 bible they got from Lifeway. Right? So how do we minister to someone that's experiencing homelessness is really like we minister to anybody else.

Zac Whitley:

Wayne, it's helpful, I believe, for the church, the team, even general church member to understand your role versus God's role and the realities of helping someone take their next best step. I think y'all have said, y'all have taught me I'm responsible to someone, not for someone.

TJ Detwiler:

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley:

And the reality probably is also that I'm responsible to them for a short period of time. I might not get to see the end of that story, but I also don't need the burden and the pressure of being responsible for someone's life, for their redemption, for the reconciliation of all their relationships, for their future outcomes. I'm responsible. My role is to be prayerful and encouragement, be along their side, to be responsible to them, pointing them to their next best step.

Wayne:

In the process of serving people experiencing homelessness, churches still have to have rules. Rules that really don't apply just to those folks, that apply to every folks, every person there. I remember, we used to go to a church where our kids would sneak in and go to the coffee bar and open up all the little creamers and start drinking them all. We'd have to tell the kids, no. You can't do that.

Wayne:

Right? The churches have to have rules about backpacks. Right? Maybe they don't let anybody bring backpacks in. Even the high school kid that just got out of, you know, gym practice, they just tell them, hey.

Wayne:

Leave your bag in here with security or something, you know, not empty it all out. They've gotta have rules about people that are maybe panhandling in the parking lot and just conversations with them. Hey, man. That's that's not for here. Right?

Wayne:

We wanna help you in other strategic ways. Are there any specific rules that you guys think that impact people experiencing homelessness when they go to a church, that a church still has to set some healthy boundaries and say, we we can't do this. I know a lot of churches talk about giving people

TJ Detwiler:

money

Wayne:

or Mhmm. Or gas vouchers or hotel vouchers. And, you know, from my perspective, it's easier and and probably healthier or for churches to set healthy boundaries and those things and just say, look, We either give everybody some money or we don't give anybody some money, or we connect people with things that are much more important than money. Mhmm. Like permanent solutions to get off homelessness.

Wayne:

What what rules do you think kind of apply in areas like this?

Brandon Wallace:

Yeah. I mean, the money's a big one because, there's a lot of churches that, you know, simply fall into that. Trying to think.

Zac Whitley:

Oftentimes, we'll lead. We'll kind of early on in the conversation.

TJ Detwiler:

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley:

It's helpful to let people know what you won't do. Mhmm. It can accelerate, expedite the conversation. And when it comes to money, we we lead with the if you're here for a dollar, you're not gonna get a dollar. If you're here for a hotel stay, you're not gonna get a host hotel stay nor can you sleep here overnight.

Zac Whitley:

You can hang out until 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock when the coffee shop closes, but you can't hang out overnight. And you're not allowed to panhandle. You're not allowed to ask for food or ask for money in the church. And our coffee shop team, is is staff, and they get trained similarly.

TJ Detwiler:

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley:

One of our boundaries is if you're unwilling to take a next step, and our next step is come to our calling. If you're unwilling to take a next step, you have about 2 weeks that you can hang out in the coffee shop and read and charge your phone and, follow the rules as anyone else does in the coffee shop. But sometimes it's more art than science, but about 2 weeks of unwillingness to take a next step, then it's, I'm sorry, you can't you can't hang out here anymore.

Brandon Wallace:

Yeah. So when you, when you give people those rules, I'm assuming that you probably follow that with, we can't do this, but this is what we can do

Wayne:

Mhmm.

Brandon Wallace:

Or this is what we do do. That's right. And we we do the same thing in our calling. It's like we this is not what we're about. We can't do this, but we can do this.

TJ Detwiler:

Mhmm. Yeah. And here's the thing too. These are the same rules you have with the whole congregation. Right.

TJ Detwiler:

If I come in and say, hey, man. I don't feel like sleeping in a home today. Can I have a hotel? Would you get me a hotel room? Probably not.

TJ Detwiler:

Right? If I came in and started asking all of the other people for $5, somebody would probably say, hey, man. You shouldn't do that. Right? If I came in and wanted to stay past clothing and sleep in the church, somebody would say, hey, man.

TJ Detwiler:

You you can't do that. Right? So these are the same rules that apply for everybody. They're not specific rules that apply to a person who's homeless and not. And I think clearly communicating that helps because then it helps the person not feel like they're being isolated, they're different, or they're being treated in in a way that everyone else isn't.

TJ Detwiler:

But how you say it matters.

Wayne:

Yeah. It's like a guy that wants to just conduct business at church, pass out his business cards or sell, you know, vacuum cleaners or insurance in the parking lot. You wouldn't let that happen either. Right? And so we're we're not calling out one person because of their socioeconomic status.

Wayne:

We're we're setting up standard boundaries that apply to the whole community, the whole congregation. You know, another conversation for another day, but, you know, we we at some point, we wanna talk about people with severe criminal backgrounds that come into church. Just quickly, I'll I'll share this as we close. I had a church call me a while back and said, hey. It it was a friend of mine.

Wayne:

He's an elder at a church. I don't go to the church. But he said, hey, Wayne. We have we wanna have an emergency elder meeting tomorrow. Can you be on the call with us?

Wayne:

I'm like, I'm sure. What did I do? No. We just want your opinion on something. And so the next day, I get on the call with this Zoom call with all these elders from this church in Dallas, and they said, hey, Wayne.

Wayne:

We have a guy who's coming to our church, who's a registered sex offender, and we wanna know really how to minister well to him, how to care for him, how to love him, how to disciple him in a way that's healthy, in a way that sets healthy boundaries, but we really don't wanna kick him out. We want don't wanna push him to the corner or the curb. We really wanna know how to love him, which floored me. Yeah. Because usually, I get the other conversation.

Wayne:

How quickly can we kick this guy out to the building? And to me, it's just a an illustration of there are churches that wanna know how to step into, you know, sticky situations Mhmm. To love people that may be hard to love, which honestly each one of us in some part of our lives have been really hard to love and are willing to go the extra mile to make disciples and to love their neighbors as themselves. And so that's so cool to see. Mhmm.

Wayne:

Well, thank you guys for this. And, our prayer is that churches would just be gracious and be kind, or that they would call us if there's any way we or any churches, not even in Dallas. There's other homeless service providers in cities around the country that would love to partner with churches, and churches don't have to do this by themselves. And so we just appreciate Watermark reaching out to us and in ways that we can serve. And there's ways that we don't know when we reach out to our other home service providers, but ways we

Zac Whitley:

can do this together. Yeah. Well, thanks, Wayne. Thanks, TJ. Thanks, Brandon.

Brandon Wallace:

Hey. We've learned

Zac Whitley:

a lot from you guys. Really appreciate it.

Wayne:

Awesome. Thanks.