Disney’s Wine Master: George Miliotes on Pairing Wine with Rollercoasters

What happens when passion meets purpose in the wine world — and a little Disney magic? George Miliotes, legendary Master Sommelier and the visionary behind Wine Bar George at Disney Springs, shares a journey as rich and layered as a vintage Bordeaux.

From crafting wine blends for Olive Garden to building one of the most dynamic wine destinations in the country, George brings hospitality, humor, and high standards to everything he touches.

🎢 Bonus: We challenge George to pair wines with iconic Disney rides — think Guardians of the Galaxy, Tower of Terror, and Expedition Everest. His answers? As bold as a Napa Cab.

📍 What You’ll Learn:

• George Miliotes is a trailblazer in the wine world and creator of Wine Bar George
• How growing up in hospitality shaped his love of wine
• The surprising stories behind his wine collaborations (yes, Olive Garden!)
• Why Coravin changed the game for by-the-glass programs
• His inclusive, no-snobbery approach to wine education and service
• Why mentorship is key to cultivating great wine professionals
• How Wine Bar George is redefining wine culture — one pour at a time

Whether you're a sommelier-in-training or just here for the vibes (and the vino), this episode brings out the soul behind the service — and a few unexpected twists along the way.

🔔 Subscribe for more deep dives into wine culture.
🎧 Listen now on YouTube + all podcast platforms
🔗 Full episode and show notes at winecentricshow.com

Conscious Strong has an April retreat to Italy - mention Wine Centric for a $250 0ff click the link!
We’re grateful for the support of our episode partners, including Fearrington House and 

Creators and Guests

Host

Matt Weiss

Account Executive at Winebow 🍇 | Host & Creator of The Wine Centric Show 🎙

What is The Wine Centric Show?

🎙 Bringing wine stories, tips, and expert interviews to everyday wine lovers. 🍷

[00:00:00] Winebar George: we're gonna have a really, really good time doing it. And we're gonna get to taste the great wines of the world because, um, you know, how do you sell a Ferrari if you've never driven one?

[00:00:16] Winebar George: Welcome to the Wine Centric Show. Here we are inside of Disney Springs Resort and shopping extravaganza. And today, as always, I have a titan for you. This man is a Titan of Disney World, of Walt Disney World. He created Wine Bar George. And that is his name. He is a master sommelier, Mr. George MTIs. Well, Matt, I've never been called a Titan before, so it's a good day today.

I, I dub the Awesome George, let's just, uh, jump right in. Sure. How did this, how does this happen with Disney? I know you ran the California Grill and you started, but Correct. Do they tap you to become the, to start a wine bar in Disney Springs, or how does that work? So, um, yes, they asked me, uh, I've worked for Disney for what, eight years during the nineties to early two thousands.

And I think I did pretty good work in California Grill. Yeah, I think so. Um, and then, you know, went and had my life for 15 years at Darden opening up what was it, like, 75 restaurants in 15 years for them. Um, and then. Um, Disney called me back and said, Hey, you know, we got one last spot here at Disney Springs that hasn't been developed.

Um, would you like to take this piece of dirt and turn it into a wine bar? Um, and so there is a connection that I did good work at Disney, but you gotta do good work and you have to be able to play well with the group also. And so, um, when the time came here for a wine bar, they thought of me. It's pretty impressive because it's also a unique position you're in.

Darden, for those of you who don't know, Darden is probably the largest restaurant holder corporation in the world. I would think so. I would think so. Yeah. Yeah. And you said in your time there, which was 15 years, you opened 75 restaurants. I mean, we're talking what Olive Garden what are the, what are the other?

So the restaurants I opened while they own Olive Garden and they own Longhorn, the restaurants I opened, um, and helped out, out at, were, um, capital Grill, seasons 52 and Eddie V's. Okay. Um, although I will tell you that, uh, I was tasked at one point with reworking the flavor. Profile for olive garden's entry level, white, red, and rose.

And I'll tell you, there's a whole different set of angst when you're putting your name on something that's at the lower end, right. The budget end and is large volumes a hundred K. 'cause you're putting the olive garden label on those Absolutely. Like those are the house red, white and rosette. Correct.

And so when you know that's a lot of cases of wine. Yeah. That if you make a mistake, it's not like that can just simply flush through distribution. Like a hundred cases could because it wasn't for a hundred cases. Okay. So I love this. So you get to go, this is, and we're gonna get obviously your master sommelier.

So you're validated right off the bat. I don't even have to go into your, uh, history, which we'll get there. But, um. So you go with Olive Garden and you go to a specific winery? Yeah. A company like is that gala or They work with Cabot In, in Italy. Okay. So we're in Northern Italy and it's funny because at the winery, um, it was as much maybe.

I know what marketing is thinking and wants, and I know what language to put it in to the winemaker, right? Um, sometimes you're like a translator. Correct. There is a translation that, hey, we still want them to appeal to the average palate, but we also want to make sure that there's still lively wines.

Sometimes, you know, the easiest route is let's put sugar in it and make it taste good. Um, and that's great, but the appropriate level of sugar with the appropriate acid balance makes for something that's alive and delicious and that people wanna order a second class of. And that was the whole idea with that process.

And marketing knew what they wanted 'cause they still wanted it to taste good to the average guest. Um, but they also knew they wanted to sell more wine. And saying that to the wine maker was a fairly fun and easy, um, project once they knew what they, what the goal was. So Olive Garden comes to you and says, we need to change our.

Wines by the, our, our main wines. We need to make them, we wanna make them better, we wanna make 'em better. Mm-hmm. And then you get to say you, so you are translating in your head what better means. Mm-hmm. Like, because you could have also gone the other way. Wait better Like the masses, like you said, want sugar.

But you translated say no, we needed more zippy, we needed more balance. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. And then so you get to go to the winemaker and then are you in tasting trials? Oh yeah. Blending trials. Oh yeah. Do you even get to like, decide which vineyards go into, which do you get that part? Um, they bring, uh, as I remember, they brought probably 10, 15 different samples of, red was the first thing that we did of red.

And we tasted through the 15 samples. They, you gotta listen to what the winemaker says. 'cause there is one wine that you had to choose that's gonna be the base for it, but you gotta make sure you have the appropriate volumes. Um. And so we tasted through those and then we started blending and adjusting and got to where we needed to go, where everybody was happy.

But it's funny, I don't wanna task the wine maker either with Yeah. Um, hey, I gotta have this amount of acid and this amount of sugar, and I don't care what you think is a wine maker. That's what I want. I want him to be proud of the wine too, is when he's proud of the wine, it's gonna be a better wine also.

Um, and so yeah, that's the process. But yes, we got to pick between the 15 ish samples, which one was gonna be the base, um, and then went from there and then did it with White and Rose also. Give me, give me 30% more of the mm-hmm. Profile. Seven and, mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolute. And how long does, do you do that every vintage then?

No, no, no, no. They, the winemaker at that point knows the profile Okay. That they want. Um, and so we did this one vintage and we would taste. Like if they're gonna change to the next vintage or if they feel there needs to be a radical change. Not radical, but there's gonna be a significant change. They'll send samples back and forth.

Gotcha. In that situation. And so just to give us a idea, like what type of volume is that? Like how much in, in, back in those days this was, this was what, like, uh, the early two thousands? This would've been No, it's been more like mid, mid 10, like 2008. Okay. So somewhere between eight 12, you were already a master at that point?

Yes. Okay. Can you give us an idea of what the volumes on like, um, I don't remember the exact, but I think, you know, like there had to be around a hundred thousand cases of wine going on there. That's incredible. I think between the three, yeah, it's fun, but there's a whole different type of angst Yeah.

Around high volumes. And when you. All right, so take a step back. Yeah. If I have all the resources in the world and crop a single vineyard to two tons, and the single vineyard is five acres, I got one thing to focus on there. If I'm trying to make a wine that's delicious to a wide range of people at a price that is affordable and allows the restaurant to make money and the guests to still buy the wine, which one is more difficult?

I don't think one is more difficult. They're both difficult. It's just that one we never think of being as difficult because it's not expensive. But making good tasting inexpensive wine, I think is, it's not easy. It's not easy. No. And I, I just think that the confluence of being a master sommelier and then you think about, oh, now I have to make wine for.

100,000 cases for the Olive Garden is such a different skillset. It is. Um, but you actually are uniquely prepared to do that because as, uh, the story or the legend goes, you started, uh, stocking wines in your father's delicatessen. I did. That is, uh, legend and the fact when I was, um, I don't know, somewhere around 11 or 12 years old, those child labor laws in Florida were different in the seventies.

Um, my dad would take me in and I'd wash beer glasses and clean plates behind the, we had a long butcher block bar where we serve sandwiches and beer and wine. Um, but then at the end of the shift, I'd go back to, we had a wall of wine, was probably about as big as this wall here. And, um, this is a dramatic.

Um, style deli. Um, German wines are the first things I learned a lot of. But remember this was the mid seventies in Orlando. We were one of maybe two or three places that sold top end Bordeaux, you know, and like Napa Valley was just starting to catch fire. So I can remember, you know, selling 74 Mondavi Reserve and 74 Sterling Reserve, um, wines that, you know, back in the seventies, those were the icons of Napa Valley.

Now things have moved way on from Napa. You know, Sterling was family owned. Sure. Um, and Ssha Newton, who owned it then with her husband, she was very upfront with us. She was like. If Robert Mondavi hadn't come by once a week during, during the making of the wine, I don't know what we would've made. Okay. Um, which is all very cool.

'cause you know, we think about Napa as this big place now. Um, but back then it was a small place and everybody was tied in. I'm not saying everybody doesn't still help each other because I know they do. Um, but I think it was a little bit different world back. It's a rising tides mentality. Correct. And but also what a vintage to start with.

74 was It's classic. Classic, you know it. Yeah. I have some, uh, 74 clo Deval in my cellar, actually. And one of the great wines of Napa Valley. That's right. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, not all the wines have stayed good. But the ones that have are, are, are really, really good wines. Really good wines.

Um, was your father the chef as well? So my dad wasn't a chef. And at the, at. The deli, like we serve sandwiches and then higher end food products. We're one of the first, like we think today anybody walks into a grocery store, there's Brie, there's real Swiss, there's Havarti, there's Daise, there's all kinds of these selections of cheese.

Right? In the seventies in Orlando, or really in just about every city in the United States, your average grocery store did not have those things like Cheddar, Swiss, yes. American Cheese. That, that was pretty much it. That was it. Yeah. Um, but like we brought in real Swiss cheese, um, that we used. We variety samso, all kinds of, like, we had a hundred different cheeses you could choose from.

And so, you know, that was my base and. And food and like my family is ethnically Greek. Um, and so food and the mealtime has always been something that's very important to us. Sure. And so my dad made a very easy transition from the corporate world to being this, you know, relative, this entrepreneur in the seventies doing fine wine and um, and gourmet foods.

And he'd pride himself on if, um, you know, uh, somebody of European descent or who'd moved here, came and said, Hey, I wanna try to find this product. He'd go and try to find the product. Yeah. Um, and so that was my base in what was done. And you know, it's funny you don't, in the seventies when I was learning what a German wine label was and I was 16 years old, and I could explain the ins and outs of what happened in 1971 with the re kind of forming of German wine labels.

Um. There's never any angst about it because I learned it when I was 16. Right. You, you know, when you try to learn something when you're 30 and you gotta remember it, that's one thing. But when you learn it as a natural thing, it's like, oh, that's awesome. And I knew that when I was 16 and so it never goes away.

Um, and while it's gotten more complicated with time, um, and, you know, everything morphs. My basis is as strong a basic. And there was a German guy who'd sell my dad German wines who'd come in from Germany three times a year, and he's the one who taught me how to decipher the label. Um, and my dad didn't know I was gonna be a master sommelier.

He didn't even know what a master sommelier was in the seventies. Yeah. Um, but that's was start of my training. Yeah. And just even how you're talking about cheese is Yeah. And the fine foods, foods. Big point is, is it's part of it. Yeah. Right. No wonder like you were unique, you were in a unique position to become somebody who is a.

Titan of taste. Bring it back. Ah, it's all good. Yeah. Speaking of which, George, I'm just going to pause for one second. Sure. 'cause I gotta pay the bills. There is a woman that also helps us. Her name is Lauren McLaughlin, and she does a, a business called Cons Conscious Strong, which, um, combines wellness and wine as she does these curated trips where, you know, she fuses movement, but then also great food and great wine, uh, where I'm sure within Germany or Greece, you can help her on the next retreat.

Yeah, you let me know. I'll we're not just drinking some, uh, I I, I, we could talk all day about your father's deli and how it was back in the seventies and how it set you up. But tell us what's in our glass. So we're drinking, um, if you want the, uh, the, uh, the, the nutshell is we've got some, uh, as non-interventionist produced, she blanc from the lair and Francis there is now this is Nicholas show, Lee, um, Lavo clo, the old, uh, vineyard.

Um, and so 100% Chenin Blanc. But as you know, and I'm sure a lot of the listeners know, um, the very first really winery to get serious about biodynamics and to lead the pack with this. Um, and I love opening it, um, right before we started because this wine will change, um, just in the hour that we're gonna talk.

Yeah. But we could leave the three glasses in here for a day or two and come back and it would still be complete and changed, but still a wine. That's delicious. Um, and I always, I love to tell this story. Last year I did a blind tasting where we used one of the Jolie wines and I emailed the Jolies, um, and the daughter emailed me back that we would like you to the.

Tasting was on a Sunday at, um, we started at one o'clock. She was like, we'd like you to open the wines and decant the wines on Saturday night. Okay, at 9:00 PM Leave them in the decanters until 1:00 PM um, before you served them for the tasting. Now it was a tasting for a hundred people, so I didn't have the wherewithal to do it at nine at night, but I came in that next morning, um, opened all the bottles, decanted all the bottles, then rough decanted each one of the bottles to get the oxygen on them.

So it's a very interesting to me wine in that, um, the wine is alive and when we think about white wines not oxidizing immediately and going flat, this is one wine where you can decant it or not decant it, but it's always going to change and I think just become more and more and more delicious, um, as it gets more oxygen.

What's interesting about that is because you poured this outta Corvin. Yep. And it is absolutely for me, it's singing outta the glass. Yes. And you know, she blanc can be a little bit muted aromatically at first, but this is like, but there's nothing here. I'm, yeah. And it's gonna continue to be, uh, it's gonna continue to show how beautiful it is.

So, yeah. And I wanted to pour for talking. This is a fun line to pour 'cause you don't see it all that often. Um, and. You know, I, I'm not trying to segue into anything, but the Corvin is as major a part of the success of the restaurant and our wine program as any other part, because you can come into the restaurant and you can buy any wine and any amount that you want.

And for our higher end product that maybe we don't move a bottle a day of. Right. That's using the cor of it. Yeah. No, that's a perfect segue actually. Um, I do want to hear more about the Jolie family, but Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about, 'cause we're at Wine Bar. Wine bar towards the wine bar named after you your creation.

And you have you have been named Best Wine Bar, wine List in the world. Mm-hmm. Uh, by, by a couple of publications. I believe it's by the World of Fine Wine, by the World of Fine Wines. And, um, that, that is one of the thing is you call yourself an egalitarian Yes. Uh, sommelier. So yeah, talk to us about that, about how you set up the program.

What was the vision for it? So, um, the idea, and there's two levels of this egalitarian thing that I wanna make sure that I touch on. Um, first is that all the great wines are, I don't wanna say hoarded, but all the great wines go to great restaurants and most of the great restaurants like selling them by the bottle.

Um, and that puts a cap of entry for a lot of people who aren't gonna buy a thousand dollars bottle of white wine or a $500 bottle of white wine that they've never tasted before, um, or they've never heard of before. And so our first thought was, we were familiar with the technology of the Corvin. Mm-hmm.

Well, why can't we do everything on the wine list that goes from Moscato at $8 a glass to Lite or Latour or Margot at, you know. $500 a glass. Why can't we serve 'em all by the ounce? And the guest tells us how much we want, and if it is served out of the corvin, myself or one of five or six other sommelier comes, brings the bottle to the table and explains the wine to you.

Right? Um, and so, and when I say five or six Psalms, we also have some servers and some bartenders who we allow to serve, to use the Corvin also who've been with us the whole time and know about all the products that they're serving. Um, and so we wanted to be able to open up the wine world, um, to people who love wine, but wouldn't necessarily think that spending 2000 or a thousand or 500 or even $250 on a bottle of wine, um, is what they do every day, but they still wanna be able to try these wines and experience what's going on.

Yeah. And so you have, is it 190 selections? We have around 220 selections, two 20 now. Okay. Yes. My, I hope my wife doesn't listen to the, uh, the podcast. How do we get to 220? But it's around there. Is she, uh, responsible for the, for the books? 'cause I, she reporter in the, she does your partner in this. She is my partner in this.

And I just, I wanna make the point. A lot of times people think, oh, the person who does the finances is in the back, or like, my wife and I are on equal footing as to how this restaurant is run. Um, and so we look at everything. I do love telling a story when the first patch of of, uh, first growth Bordeaux came in a week after we opened.

Um, and I hadn't made her aware that it was gonna be a $15,000 invoice. I was like, oh my God, she's gonna kill me. But it all worked out. She had, she was ready for it and made sure we had money everywhere to do what we needed to do. Was that a situation where you thought, instead of asking for permission, I'm just gonna ask for forgiveness?

So here's, now I wanna, it is not Okay. Here's, I, we've been working with Chateau Margot to get specific wines. Okay. But, you know, they have a master sommelier, an American master sommelier who runs, um, part of their distribution program. So we picked, mindfully picked about three different, we picked three or four different vintages at that point, but that was done six, eight months out because they had to get to the Cortier in France and then the importer and then get to us and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah. And so in between striking the deal and making Leanne aware that, oh, they've arrived, um, kind of, not that we weren't opening up a restaurant that. You know, the restaurant took up a lot of time and a lot of effort, so it kind of snuck up on me. Um, yeah. Nobody is perfect whether I'm a Titan or not.

Yeah. Nobody's perfect. That's right. You're human. Um, what I, I, I struggle with the core event to be honest with you. Um, and obviously it seems like you're a firm and supporter of it. Yes. So, do you ever find struggles? Do you ever find inconsistencies? Not that I don't know if you have any ties to COR event or anything like that.

I, I'm the li we are the largest buyer of argon capsules from Corvin in the world. Okay. Wow. Um, so I do have, we are intimately involved with them and we love their piece of equipment. Um, but like anything, yeah, you have to use it properly. And again, nothing is ever perfect from time to time if we have a bottle.

Where, you know, we get to, we've served 20 of the ounces outta the bottle, but we've served those 20 ounces one ounce at a time. Right. And we pierce the bottle 20 odd times. Maybe it does make too big a hole. And the last four ounces oxidizes when that happens, we have to throw it out. And that's just the way it is.

That happens a minimal amount or a number of times. Yeah. And so, like I'm a businessman first and foremost. If it didn't work, you would get it out. I wouldn't do it. Yeah. But it does work. Okay. Um, and as time has gone on in the beginning, we served a lot of just single ounces of, of wine. And now, um, we still serve a lot of single ounces, but we also do.

Um, you know, two ounce pours in full glasses or maybe somebody gets two glasses. So it's not always trying to serve a bottle of high end wine one ounce at a time. That helps with the situation as we become more used to it, but we train everybody how to use it that's allowed to use it. Okay. And it works.

How often do you do quality control? As, you know, let's say we were opening this bottle of the view, the, the view clo, um, side by side, um, you know, open regular with the cork and open with a cork. So this is how I would say we watch, um, how it goes. Guests are never afraid to give feedback first and foremost.

Um, and if they don't think the bottle's right, we will of course taste and have a discussion with the guest because sometimes, and. There's always balance. Sometimes the guest will ask, is this right? And we'll taste it and we can say, yes, it's right. No, you are correct. The other day I opened up a very famous bottle of wine, um, one bottle, the g the, the table poured and drank it.

The second bottle that was opened was not, was not good, no, it was not equal to the first bottle. So we went to a third bottle and the third bottle was equal to the first bottle and the second bottle, um, it was going back to the distributor or has gone back to the distributor, but the wine was not right, we do, um, we do a couple things. When we pour ounces, um, I will smell the, the vessel that we use as a measurer and I'll know if the wine is, that's my job. Okay. And Zach and Juan, um. And Sean and Zacharias, they all know, and Freya all know what is up with if the wine is right or not.

But are we at the point now where we're doing comparisons all that often? No. 'cause we know the product works now earlier on in the first years that we're doing it, first year that we did it, yeah. That was fraught with tension. And we taste and be sure now, uh, I'm confident of what we're serving. What made you decide to go with Corvin then?

Instead of saying like in the beginning? Obviously it's, well, we say it's more cost effecti effective to use. Uh, Corvin probably. But then you think about the cost of the capsules back from being in business versus putting in matic machines all over. So here's the thing with the animatic machines, so I got nothing against them.

Yeah, because they're using the same technology, right? Like so it's inert or on gas, correct. Yeah. Um. I wanted an emphasis put on a interaction between two human beings. Could I have taken an easier route and filled the two floors or part of the floors up with animatic machines I could, and made you, you know, put your credit card in and, and, but that makes for less of an experience.

Yeah. Whereas me coming to the table with Corvin and pouring your wine, which I still, I'm here anywhere from three to five days a week, sometimes six or seven days a week. Um, you get a knowledgeable person who comes and talks to you about the wine with the animatic machine 200 animatic machines or a hundred matic machines.

I don't know if, um, I'd much rather be a, and I don't, I don't wanna say I don't care about the cost 'cause I do care greatly about every cost. I run a business right. As I said, but I'm much more excited about. Taking the wines to the table and showing the guest that I am about them going up to a machine and getting product out of a machine.

Yeah. That, that, um, and like if, no, it's a great distinction. Even if we just have the machines behind a bar and you ordered it, but then do you see me bringing the bottle to it? You can't bring the bottle to the table. It's coming out of a tap in a remote location so the guest doesn't see the bottle. Yeah.

And, uh, hear me out on this part of the Yeah, please. Thing like this swine in particular is about as obscure as it gets, so it's hard to even find it on a wine list. Right. But if you are interested in biodynamics and natural wine making and all that low interventionist and stuff, this is one of the touch points.

So if you come in and you order it. I want you to see the bottle. And as importantly, I'm a sampling program for them where, no, you don't go into any wine shop where they're pouring this wine for you to taste that. Just the, we got three bottles of it for the whole year. Right. But you can come in and if you're like, oh, that's one of the original people who is the non-interventionist doing everything on site.

Yeah. You can have an ounce or two ounces or three ounces, um, and try it where there's no other place in the world that you could do that. Or even probably going to the winery right. Is your only option to do that. And so, um, that's one of the things that for the finer, harder to get wines or those that are ultimately tiny productions, we.

Give them an avenue to make sure that people can try their wines. Okay, so let's talk about, um, I, I love that distinction because I think you're right. The face-to-face is what you're here for and want to get into. So two work here as a sommelier, you have to be a minimum certified level through the court.

Um, alright, so this is a interesting premise I take, what I really want is somebody who's intelligent Yeah. And passionate and wants to do this right. But it is hard work. Like I have a tiny place where we receive probably a hundred cases of alcohol twice a week. Yeah. That a som has to put that up. A professional puts that up, right?

It's not like received by a receiver and then they're, no, we do this, um. And so I gotta have people who want to work in the business. Um, if you're an entry level sommelier, but you have extra knowledge and you just haven't sat for the certified, we're gonna put you on a fast pass path to get to the certified.

Sure. And then, let's be honest, pass advanced. You gotta have as strong an arm as if you're gonna sit for the masters. That's the level that there is. So I can't look at the, at the pool of somes worldwide and say I gotta have people who are advanced sums on my floor. But yeah, certified is the or ready to take the certified as the minimum kind of level that we would look at.

Um, but. I stress every single day here is ongoing education for that person. And if I'll take Bryce as one of my bartenders mm-hmm. Who we do it loud, Bryce and Paul, we allow to use the corvin. They both came to us with outstanding spirit knowledge and outstanding beer knowledge. And maybe growing wine knowledge after seven and a half years you could have an experience with them and not with me.

And you'd be like, wow, this is a pretty cool place. They got wine knowledgeable people here. Right. And so I always wanna take the long view of, of how, um, we hire and how we train people. And you can't expect anybody the expectation that there's some one day, one week, one month, one year program that's gonna make somebody Why knowledgeable?

It's just not true. Yeah. It's experience, right? Yes. Yeah. It has to be a calling. Yeah. And so we want those people who feel it's calling. We're gonna help them with becoming whatever level of sommelier that they wanna become. Um, and we're gonna have a really, really good time doing it. And we're gonna get to taste the great wines of the world because, um, you know, how do you sell a Ferrari if you've never driven one? How do you sell a wine if you haven't tasted it? We focus very much on some of the hardest to get wines, but a huge portion of the good work that I feel we do every day is, um, if you know nothing about wine, but you wanna come in and start. Uh, you can come in and have an ounce or two of what we call entry level wines that we have the equal amount of passion of finding really top quality well-made wines.

Yeah. So if you want to know what lightly sweet German Riesling should taste like, we have ACH oats blue label Yep. Made by a guy, and I know you know Johannes. Yep. Their family's been making wine in the Mosul since the year 1600. They are as high end of winemakers as there is 'cause they make some of the greatest German wines that are really, really expensive.

But they also, um, have an arm that makes entry level wines Yep. That are delicious and still site specific and are what they should be and the best work that we do. Is not preaching to the choir who's already ready to drink good wines. It's finding ways to get people into the wine, um, business and the life of wine and food together.

And that's like when we think about our business growing right now, that is by far and away the most important thing. And don't kid yourself, it can be, it can start with frozen wine drinks, which we sell fca. We've sold Freeling, right? Frale, whatever you want. We have, it's all the gateway. Correct. And, um.

Oftentimes we forget that drinker because we feel that it's only about spending a lot of money and having the finest. But there's a whole range here, and every part of that range has to be served if we wanna have an ongoing business, um, that spans, you know, more than one generation. And so this is very important to us.

So I'm curious about that because here we are at Disney, right? Mm-hmm. And maybe some, and, and you look at the, I don't know if you, if they ever ask your opinion for like, the selections inside the park, because I had had this impression that, you know, that Disney had really made a culinary turn, a stylistic shift towards upping the culinary.

But, uh, having my experience in the park these last couple days, I'm sorry to talk to your bosses like that. I wasn't blown away by the culinary option. And certainly even at the wine choices there, there was like sangria or like a wine cooler type of things, here's what I do know. Um, there are places on property, uh, apart from me where you can get really a really good culinary and wine experience.

You know, whether it be the Flying Fish or Citrico or Kappa. Um, they're all restaurants that have a strong culinary tradition and a strong wine inside the parks. Um, no, those are more at the hotels Okay. That are around, um, the parks. And like, I, I have more than enough to do here on a daily basis than, than help out with, um.

With this. And I do think, you know, at some point it has to be about, um, servicing best the guest who is in the park. And I don't, again, I don't have enough data on that Yeah. But there are places on property where you can get a pretty good wine and food experience.

Okay. No, no doubt. And I think that there's that, but I guess then it goes back to the question of like, of thinking, okay, I've just gone through the park, right? Maybe I have my kids, or maybe I'm just with my wife or my partner or whatever. Yeah. Uh, spouse. And then, you know, maybe let's say for example, I'm a beer drinker and my, my partner is a wine drinker, so they're like.

Wine Bar George. Well that's for you. But then I think what you're getting at, and I'm talking myself into this Yeah. Is you are going to have something for them. 'cause they might be here and say like, okay, I'll try the freezing. And then, and like we're a full, we serve beer and we've served drinks. Yeah.

And like I'm, yeah. Alright. It's my child. So it's beautiful. Right. Everybody's of course, child is the most beautiful thing that there is. Um, like I look at my restaurant and I'm so proud of our spirit program. I'm so proud of our wine program. I'm so proud of our small but very, um, very worked beer program.

And Chef Ron and I worked together at California Grill back in the nineties. Okay. Like our food program. Yeah, well I don't torture any of our food. Um, or we don't, or chef will, doesn't. Um, what an interesting choice of words. Torture. And so I'm not saying there's anything wrong with going to the place where you get 20 courses over three hours and each course is one ounce and that's all cool.

And that's a, like art. There's different levels of art and I'm all down with the high level of art. Um, but I'm also, when I'm showing the world's greatest wines, I don't wanna say I want simple food, but I want food that's well prepared, appropriately seasoned and delicious to go with the wine that's served at the right temperature in the right glass.

That's delicious too. Yeah. And that's my focus. And you know, we have 12 small plates. We have a cheese board, a charcuterie board, and then a big board that's cheese and charcuterie together. Um. And then, you know, we got three entrees and two family style entrees. So I got 25, 30 items on the menu. Um, and so it's tight.

Um, and it's focused. And if you really, if you want oysters, there's another place that serves oysters here on property. Yeah. Um, I don't have the room to do it 'cause I'm a small restaurant and so I focus on what I can do. Right. And that's delicious and relatively simple and good. Um, and in and, and in. No, I'm in no way slagging off the guy who, you know, has 30 different ingredients on the dish.

And it's two ounces and it's second. Yes. And hey, there's, there's a time and there's a place. My place is not the time and the place for that, but like, you wanna have a really cool experience that covers food. Can cover mixed drinks and can cover wine. Hey, I say bring it on. I'll go up against any restaurant in the world on those, on those things.

I love it. Uh, no, it makes sense. Uh, your take on the hospitality and, and the fact that like the wine is kind of the star of the show here and the food needs to support the wine, Correct. So that's simple and understandable. I wanna play a little game with you.

Sure. Let's play a game. I like games. Games, um, so we're inside Disney, of course. Mm-hmm. And I assume you've been on most of the rides in the park? I've been on a lot of the rides in the park, yes. Okay. So I want you to build me a flight as if I'm coming to Wine Bar George. Right. And I've just ridden through.

We'll make it like you just did the Tower of Terror. Tower of Terror. Exactly. We did Guardians of the Galaxy, Mount Everest, the rock and roller coaster, which by the way is It's pretty rocking. That's pretty rocking, man. I had to close my eyes. So, so well you could pick three or four, um, and maybe include my personal favorite, the avatar, flight of Passage.

Have you done that one? Um, I have. Okay. Um, so yeah, build me like what's the right wine pairing or flight level. You could either do it a pairing or a flight as to build my emotions as to just doing those. You get must again, the game. So yes. So Tower of Terror as it goes up and down and all around. Um, I think we start here from the Tower of Terror.

It changes. All the time. The other thing about the tower terror I love is it's never the same, like the ride itself. Oh, it's never the same. It's not, no. The they, because I don't think I'm going back. They have it, they have it tweaked to where like one time it'll go straight up and then halfway down, then back up, then all the way down, then back up.

And then the next time you're on it, it will go part of the way down back up part of the way down, back up. And so it's always a different ride set. And I think with Jolie's Wines in particular, I love that. Yeah. They're always gonna give you this very unique ride. Vintage to vintage wine. To wine. Okay. Um, I'm marking that down.

I think with Avatar. Um, we're, because it's about flying, um, I'm gonna stay in white wine world and strangely in France, but we're gonna go. Further East to Trimbach and close St. Hune, um, which, you know, the greatest Riesling, um, or one of the greatest Rieslings in the world. Um, what's the current vintage on the, uh, I think we're on 19 right now.

Yeah. Which is the, was the hundred vintage from them or 50th vintage that they made? It's on the, I'm looking at the label right now, but I can't see what it says. Um, I'm, can I go get up and go look? Yeah, go do it. That's the fun of doing this this way. That's right. So 2019 is the hundredth anniversary of Close eight Hune.

Um, and I love that they hold the product until they feel it's ready. Um, I also love that it comes in a three pack case. Yeah. Um, and at first I thought it was just Google translator being wonky, um, because on the, their piece of literature about it, it says confidential. The wine is of. Production is confidential.

Okay. Um, and then I really started thinking about it and whether it was just an oddity of Google Translate. They're people who love Riesling and love it for their whole life and have never heard or seen that wine closing to you. Yeah. And so there is this thing about you either know about it or you don't, which is kind of the definition of the wine being confidential.

And guess what? I'm here to make it unconfident. Um, because it is one of the great wines, the world, and it soars at every level. Oh, you're good at this. Um, to me and you have the clo. So it's like you're in that world of yes, you're on this one world. That is, it does focus around that one world. Love it. No doubt.

Okay. Alright. Where else do we got? So guardians of Galaxy, what wine am I getting shot at? It could be the post ride. Like, right, what do I need to, what do I need to calm down from this? Or that's, I'm gonna go with that. I'm gonna shout out to one of my, um, my favorites of, um, and it kinda, how can I put it?

So expensive. Wine is this thing where we all look at what's going on. And some people think $80 is expensive. Some people think $4,000 is expensive. True. Yep. Um, but it is when you drink it about flavor and does it taste good or not? And so there is this back and forth jerkiness between what is really a great wine or not a great wine.

And how does expense focus in on that? El Tito is a winery from Rioja. Mm-hmm. Prime Reserve. A level made by the Goran family. Um. On my list, it's 160 bucks a bottle. Okay. And here's my premise. Mm-hmm. It's different than Chateau Latour at $2,000 a bottle, but one is not better than the other. They're both delicious wines.

Yeah. And on another level, we talked about Johannes and his entry level. When it's 90 degrees out and I'm sitting with a cheese and charcuterie board out on the patio, I'm sorry, I'm as happy drinking blue label Qua Toine Riesling as I am drinking something that would be 10 or a hundred times the price.

Yeah. And so there is this, I know Herky jerkiness about where happiness and satisfaction lies. All me. With wine. Yeah. And some people it is about the expense of, Hey, all I want is my guests to be happy. And if part of the happiness is spending that money on a great wine, which I, I am that way too. Yeah. I was in France in June for a wedding and we went out to a great restaurant and we popped for a expensive bottle of wine that, hey, it was everything we would've desired in that wine.

Um, but then there are other times, like I said that, or you know, my best laugh is people ask me after we have the, uh, sometimes I'll put the cell box, um, entry level qua past wine in a blind tasting. They're like, well, what do I drink this with? And they're like, my youngest loves Chipotle. So the cross-cultural ness again, the herky jerkiness, yeah.

Of no rice, no beans, but Carida avocado. Cheese, lettuce, sour cream, um, and then the corn salsa and then the red sauce. And like a good helping of red sauce. Mix that up. And you can't tell me that, that with really good lightly sweet German Riesling is one of the best cross-cultural things ever in the world.

And you can do it for, you can do it every day if you wanted. Yeah, that's right. I love it. It's Gerkin. Mm-hmm. And, um, what's wrong with Gerkin? I like it. I like it too. And I love the fact because as you know, red wine, it's very, I mean, red sauce is very hard to pair with white wine, but you're right, that sounds like an unbelievable, uh, parent.

Yes. Amazing. And so, uh, there's just so much fun stuff in the world of wine and food together. But go ahead. Is there one more? Uh, well there is one more, but I just wanted to say how. Like, you're so correct because, and this is so just Disney, uh, appropriate, but you know, you're standing on the rides, right?

And some people might be, and it's all personal to you of what's scary to you and what's not. For example, Guardian's of Galaxy, we were on there and we were talking to this 5-year-old and he is like, I'm not scared. This is no problem. You know, this is an easy ride. This not, doesn't go fast at all.

Meanwhile, my wife is like, you know, three sheets to the wind, like wobbling after we get off of it. So it is, it's just like wine though. It's your, it's like a dope. Yuck. My yum. You know, I like this. You don't like this. I like to spend this much of money. This for me is value. This is not, so, yeah. So, and this part of this relates back to looking somebody in the eye and having an interaction with them as to where the point meets of.

Of having this great time with what to them is a great wine and everybody is different. And if it was up to an animatic machine, nothing against a animatic machines. Yeah. Um, but it can't be a machine thing. It's gotta be you and me looking at each other and talking about it and like, we're not afraid to point the prices on the menu and is this in the envelope of the price that you want?

'cause if it's not, you know, we get equally excited about somebody ordering, um, or saying I love Crew Bole. Well, crew Bole is re is almost never over a hundred bucks. Or Yeah, if it is, it's the top end Foy yard. And uh, yeah. Uh, what's his name? We're getting, uh, pretty pricey. I'm starting to get pricey now, but I saw I got off here.

I have Chen on the list that's like, it's, I don't know, 65, 70 bucks a bottle on the list. And it's as delicious as anything else for. That's on the list. And no, you didn't come in and say, I only drink top end of Napa Valley Cabernet, or I only did drink classified Bordeaux. Which we get excited about those people too, but there is this fun of you say you like K Bole.

Well, I know I'm gonna have to work for my dollar, but I'm gonna make sure I find you something really cool that you're happy about. Yeah. You still have such a love for this wine, like as a business person at seeing wine on the biggest end of this spectrum in terms of selling for, you know, working Darden restaurants and stuff, and then bringing it back here.

I have to, I'd be remiss since you're still very active in the court. Yeah. Um, and you know, the way we connected was through former guest max cast Yeah. Who's also a master sommelier. So you, you passed ma ma you became a master in 2007. What's your relationship with the court today? Obviously I, I would think it's pretty strong.

And what are your thoughts? Yeah, and just like everything that's gone on and Sure. Where it's going. So 2007. Seems like a long time ago. Well, was a different, I mean, is it different world? It was like what, for example, now there are, is it 270? Three? 71 or three? One of the two. I don't remember. 200, let's just say 273 Master sommelier in the world.

Back then it was 150, I think. Okay. So, so, um, I'm still rept tight with the quartermaster sommelier. I teach intro classes, I teach certified classes, or I administer certified classes. Um, and I love the fact that I'm a master sommelier, you know, apart from finding the right human being to marry and having the three kids, um, it is one of the penultimate things of my life.

Um, and an integral part with everything. There are peaks and valleys. Yeah. Um, and there is the ability to do better. On a daily basis. And um, it's funny, I was reading something about Danny Meyer talking about how, um, he takes his wins every day, but he knows even on the days that he wins, there are probably three other things they could have done better.

Yeah. And so, um, at the court, we have to continue to evolve and we have to do better. Um, yes, we had some heartache and I think we're on the right path to making sure that heartache never, um, happens again. And being a more open, um, group while still being as difficult a group, um, to become part of is important, um, because.

We all had to pass at a level to become a master sommelier. And so the rigor that's around tasting theory and service has to remain at the highest level. Yeah. Well, at the same time, we do have to have a, a more wider view of, of the world and what a master sommelier is. And so there've been, I think, you know, we've had to work at that.

Yeah. I don't think, uh, sorry, just to push No, go ahead on that for a little bit. Go ahead. But I don't think that was the issue of like the, it didn't seem to me like it was much more like, it was, it seemed misogynistic, it seemed very, and, and you, you know, I went through the court. I was a fan of at least the certified level, but, um, but it seemed misogynist and not racist.

Um, and that, and that, it was really difficult for, for, for females. And it was, I think the problem. Did, did you find, I guess a better way is did you find yourself pulling back when all this stuff was kind of illuminated or did, did you know about this stuff? And like how, personally, how did you personally for me, I Was it a surprise to you at the level that went on?

Yes. This surprise surprise to me. And I would simply say like I have my own personal set of morals and guidelines that I go by. Yeah. And we can go downstairs and look at the people we're mentoring, whether it's at the beginning of their time in the court, all the way to people who are sitting for their masters.

And I have every orientation and I have every color of human being who we've worked with and continue to work with. And so. Uh, I will say, you brought up the term misogynist. There are a lot of misogynists in a lot of different professions. Yeah. That if we pro, if we choose to take a microscope and look at Yeah.

Um, and so yes, there were individuals who rightfully so needed to either be removed or be held accountable for what they did. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. No doubt as to this. I don't want to get into the nitty gritty, I think, um, yes.

Yeah. We don't have to name names. Just shocked is absolutely the word. Yeah. And like, I disappointed. Disappointed is as equally strong a word as it could be. And just, and in another way for some human beings let down. Mm-hmm. Um. In that, you know, when you're in the mentor or teacher relationship, you do have some modicum of power over the situation that should not be abused. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for going down that road. Yeah. Maybe we'll get, uh, back to business for a moment. Sure. Um, and I know as you might hear, there's sounds of this restaurant starting to per there is a restaurant that we're operating.

You know, it we'll just take a few more minutes. Yeah. We're, um, the, so as a single business owner, small business, well it's not a single business anymore. You opened up a outpost at the airport, which is pretty cool. We did. Um, I gotta imagine, I mean, you're youthful. Uh, to me you seem full of energy and passion.

But how does one who's worked at that level of the Darden or the capital grills in the seasons 52 of the world, kind of then think about this restaurant, where it's going and, and now other opportunities and scaling that, especially with the personal inter the interpersonal interactions that you wanna create.

So, um, I've done the thing where there are a hundred restaurants that I gotta go see in a year. Yeah. Or 75, or even 50 or even 25 restaurants to see in a year. If you take the 25 restaurants and you divide 'em by 365 days and a nor and a relatively normal life, uh, it's a deep breath trying to run multiple locations for sure.

Um, so I love this one location. Um. The location in the airport is a licensing situation where, because it's in an airport, you have to have an operator for you and that type of thing. So I don't wanna think, say it doesn't take any time. 'cause it does take time to make sure it's done right. But it's not the, you put your name on it.

Correct. It's not the same amount of time as here. Have we thought about other locations and will we continue to think about other locations? Yes. Um, but my name's on this location. Um, and is there maybe someday the opportunity to do Wine Bar Zach by George or Wine Bar Juan by George or whoever the human being would be?

Um, maybe, but right now I like my 80 families that live outta my restaurant. I like taking care of 'em and knowing everybody's name. I like making sure that everything is right in my little world here. Um. And it is our golden goose that we need the pet every single day to make sure the golden goose is happy.

So I'm not saying I wouldn't build more or that the right opportunity won't come up, but it would have to be with somebody else who has my, um, level of knowledge, drive and care, um, to make it a unique and a special place. And I'm, I don't think of myself as old, except when I get up in the morning, my knees hurt and I am trying to get going before that first cup of coffee.

Um. And so yeah, one location is brilliant. Was good? Yes. Okay. Maybe that person, uh, will be your son who is a burgeoning soer advanced. Well, we don't ever want to tell anybody what to do. Yeah. But, um, that would be a really pretty great thing. Um, he is summing up in Chicago and Yes, is sitting for the, the, the computer part, the computer knowledge part of the advanced exam here in about a month.

And so we're very proud of how he's progressed through the world. He knows imminently more than I do about the production side, having worked five or six harvests. Um, and he's got a pretty, pretty good demeanor and service also. Yeah. So we're, um. Both my wife and I are very proud of him. Just like we're proud of our two daughters also.

So, um, we'll see how that rolls. Alright, very cool. And the other thing is not for nothing. Yeah. If you let 'em go out on their own, they can see how green the grass actually is when they're not in the, you know, when you're in the yard, you may not see how green your grass is when you're out of the yard in somebody else's yard.

There's the acid test. Not saying anything bad about anything, just saying, I hope that works out. Do you guys ever do, uh, blind tasting one p ones with each other? Um, we will taste some things flying from time to time. Okay. Who's, does the old man still usually wait or, um, it's usually like, we'll pour something blind for each other and not really go, I won't pour, it won't be one-to-one kind of thing.

We may like, I may open something up and pour and say, Hey, tell me what it is, or vice versa. He's a really, he's a pretty good taster. Okay. But at the beginning of his, like. Tasting is an experience thing too. And like by the time we get to the master's level, you should be able to put your nose into glass of Pinot noir.

And it smells like Pinot noir. Yeah. And you have to have tasted that many times. Just like, um, Patrick Mahomes throwing an out pass to one of his receivers. A simple out pass. He can do that in his sleep. Yeah. It's the Paul Skees guy, I think is how you say it. It's a pitcher for the pirates. Yeah. Um, I saw something where he was saying, it's actually kind of boring that I do the same thing and if I'm, if I'm mis I am paraphrasing here.

Yeah. But he's like, I've done it so many times that I get up on the mound and I know exactly what to do. Like knowing what Pinot noir is in a blind tasting and Sauvignon Blanc. It should be like that. Yeah. It's, I step onto the rubber. I get in and I know I'm gonna whip that ball right past this Vater.

Yeah. Um, and so that is about experience and practice. Paul Skees has put in the time that yes, throwing his fastball is on one level boring. Right. To him I'm sure. Was he just, I know what I'm gonna do and I'm gonna do it. I'm do. And so with tasting in particular, if you're not practicing and tasting all the time, you're not gonna become a master, so, yay.

Yeah. But it's much better than being a marathon runner who has to go out and run 10 to 15 miles every morning. Right. I've gotta taste five wines every day. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Right? Yep. So there it is about a, and it, you know, my boy's 25, there's still plenty of time to taste and become a master song, and you gotta continue tasting all the time.

I tell that to all the people that are mentors. You gotta taste all the time. Taste all the time. There you go. It's a hard job. You run them through the six tastings. Mm-hmm. I guess what's your goal for that? Like, do you want to teach them how to taste like a master psalm or is it gaining through blind tasting, enhancing their appreciation of wine?

What do you like, what, what is your hope for somebody, for the most people to walk away with on those? So, um, there is this wasteland in many ways of truly fun things to do for adults. And we go to the movies, we go out to eat. But for an hour and a half to come blind taste three whites and three reds. And now hear me out on this one.

I'm gonna go a little bit deeper please. Like, we used our sense of smell when we were emerging from the cave to smell other people, to smell danger, to smell fire. We used our nose every single day to stay alive. Mm-hmm. For eons and eons and eons. And nowadays, what do you use sense of smell for? Um, yeah, well smell your food.

Okay. Yeah. But not, there's not, it's not a survival in any, but I truly, truly believe, and this is why some humans become incredibly obsessed about wine and um. In, in their life is one day they put their nose in this glass. And I can describe minerality, I can describe a little bit of sweatiness here. I got yellow apple, I've got honey, I've got honeycomb.

All those things going on in here, something deep in your brain is awakened that this instrument can do so many things that we really don't use it for anymore. And so blind tasting is using a part of your, um, of your makeup that maybe you're not used to exercising. Just like, hey, going and running or Peloton or whatever it may be.

Yeah. Is a fun thing. 'cause you're using your instrument. Um, using this instrument. I truly think people enjoy doing it. Um, and my. My kind of love for doing the tastes like a master som is that guests get really involved and enjoy it and want to come back and do it again and again. And they can do it once a year, twice a year.

I don't care what it is. Mm-hmm. But it's a fun adult thing that um, there's not something else out there like it. Yeah. So a short answer to that, which I think is brilliant is if you're coming to the blind tasting, if the only thing you get out of that is just practicing your, your, your sense of smell.

Smell. It's a win. It's a win. Yes. That's great. But there are people come back, like most guests, if they're not, you know, I get guests from the UK all the time. They can only come when they're over here, but they come and it may be two years before I see 'em again, but they're, oh, I was here two years ago and we haven't been to Florida since, but we made sure we came to the taste like a master when.

When we are here. Awesome. That's what it's all about. Amazing. Yeah. Well, this has been great, George. It has been good times, has such a, such wonderful answers to all of my questions. Uh, your story is unique and your passion is so fervent. One of the, not one of the few, but one of the, um, the flagships in, in our wine world today.

So for those of you out there, uh, you're coming to Florida, you're coming to Orlando, you're looking for a fun adult experience, come to Wine Bar George. Come meet George Ottis and you will eat and drink Deliciously. Awesome George. Thank you Matt. Yeah.

​