Creating an Environment for Spiritual Growth with Dr. Bill Donahue

Today's episode comes from a small group conference at Saddleback Church. The session speaker is Dr. Bill Donahue as he shares about how to create an environment for spiritual growth in small groups.

Dr. Donahue is one of the most well respected and accomplished speakers and small group practitioners, having written several books and taught at the collegiate level. He also is a coach and leads cohorts at the small group network.

To learn more about small groups, or to share your own small group ministry experience, find Steve Gladen and others at https://smallgroupnetwork.com, our facebook group, or join our community at https://go.smallgroupnetwork.com

★ Support this podcast ★

What is SG² Steve Gladen on Small Groups?

Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.

Hello, and welcome to F G squared.

Steve Gladen the global pastor of small
groups from Saddleback church polls

from his over 25 years of experience.

To encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.

And this episode, we're
going to be hearing from Dr.

Bill Donahue, as he's speaking at a small
group conference at Saddleback church.

Bill Donahue has decades of small
group experience, both practical and

academic as he is also a professor.

And has written many
books on small groups.

Today, he's going to be walking us
through creating an environment of

spiritual growth for your church.

So let's listen and learn together.

Bill Donahue: I'm Bill Donahue, and
look forward to sharing some time with

you about how to create an environment
for spiritual growth in groups.

And um, lead, like many of you, a group.

Uh, on Friday mornings, and I'm in, I'm
involved in a neighborhood community,

which is, uh, something Randy Frazee
talked a little bit about or hinted at or

described as he told his story yesterday.

And uh, Randy and I work
very closely together.

It seems like when people see us
teach or hear us that maybe we're

kind of in competition, we're not.

We work very much together in
birthing communities and within

those birthing small groups.

And it's a transition time for us
at our church in trying to do that.

So, uh, we're having a lot of fun
trying to, uh, a new model in place.

So today we're going to talk about
what it means to create, as best we can

from our side of it, uh, an environment
of spiritual growth, an environment

conducive to that in a small group.

And we are primarily environmentalists.

That's really kind of what we are.

Uh, Paul said, you know, I
planted, Apollos watered,

and God caused the growth.

So there's this sense that That we
don't really cause anything in the way

of growth to happen, but obviously we
are responsible as hosts, as leaders,

to craft environments and to invite
people into those environments.

Now I wish I had gotten this when I was
a small group leader, but I did not.

Um, in my first group.

My first small group was actually
a pretty amazing experience.

Uh, I had come to faith in Christ
and about a year and a half

later, having been in a group,
someone said, you should lead one.

And so I picked four people that I knew.

A couple of them were people I
played high school football with.

It was three guys.

One was a new Christian.

One was what I would
call a nominal Christian.

I wasn't sure where he was.

And one was a seeker, a non
Christian who had questions and was

asking questions about the faith.

And I thought, what a great start.

And so I gathered these three
people and me together and we formed

the core of a brand new group.

And I just have to tell you, by
God's mercy and God's grace, in six

weeks I was able to grow that group.

To one.

And, uh, it really was God's mercy
and grace for the participants.

Uh, because I was the one left.

And I had a great quiet time,
uh, that last sixth meeting.

I thought of writing a book, how
to turn your group into a quiet

time kind of thing, but I didn't
think that's, that's a big deal.

And so it was very frustrating to
me, and I couldn't understand why.

Why did they not want to come back?

Why did they not feel like
this was a great environment?

After all, I had given
them a classic curriculum.

It had all the blanks for them to fill in.

I asked them to fill in the blanks.

They filled them in.

I asked them the questions when they came.

I made them do their homework.

I said they had to be on
time, and then leave on time.

Why wouldn't you want to be part of that?

Well, the reality was, um, I
didn't understand what that

environment was to truly be about.

And so I've had to learn that over the
years, and God has truly been gracious.

Um, but I realize as I look back,
I made a couple classic errors.

And the first error was that I really
didn't understand what it meant to create

this kind of environment and what it
really meant to have a growth environment.

I was confused about some things.

And the first thing that we're going
to put up that you can see on the side

screen, and they're in your handout.

The PowerPoint will simply guide us along.

It's not new info.

But if you are experiencing post lunch
syndrome and you depart for a few

moments, when you come back, look at
the screens and you'll see where we are.

Uh, I always encourage people,
fold your hands and put your head

down if you're going to sleep.

At least you look spiritual, some people.

Alright.

Uh, the first error was, I didn't
understand the difference between

having a meeting and building a family.

Having a meeting and building a
family, as you can see on your notes.

And there is a comparison here between
the two that I want to explain,

because here's what I discover.

I ask people, I say,
tell me about your group.

And they say, it meets Tuesday nights
at 7, and we're studying Romans.

You just described a meeting to me.

Now, if you'd asked Jesus to
describe his group, I don't think he

would have gone about it that way.

I think he would have said,
well, let's start with Peter.

First of all, man, Peter,
he's an amazing person.

You know, he's excited.

First he's in, then
he's out, then he's in.

But he's a great person.

He has a great heart.

And I remember one night at
his mother in law's home, we

healed people till midnight.

I mean, you should have seen
what the community was like.

Oh, and let me tell you about Andrew.

He's like a little puppy dog.

You know, he's just this young Christian.

And he'd go down this story, and I
think he'd just say, Oh, you want me

to talk about my little community?

Well, how much time do you have?

Because he would not describe a meeting,
he would describe a relational community.

I'm using the term a family.

And so here's some
distinctions between the two.

A family, or a meeting,
is more about structure.

And a family focus is more on nurture.

It's not that they don't have structure,
but it's a nurturing environment.

In a structured meeting, we
have time for learning and

specific focus for the meeting.

Time to talk, time not to talk.

You know, no one asks,
when does your family meet?

That's just, that would be odd.

If you said to someone, you know, my
family meets Tuesdays from 7 to 9.

It'd be odd.

Because it's not a meeting,
it's a relationship.

So the nurture side is more about process.

How are we growing together,
supporting each other, supporting

each other through times of pain and
loss and being there for each other.

So, there's a distinction there.

Uh, as you can see, a meeting is an
event, a family is a relationship.

A meeting is interested more in length.

And a family, I think, or a community,
more about the depth of their experience.

You know, in a meeting, we're thinking
about beginning to end and how do we get

through the meeting and the components.

And in the family, it's not so much So,
beginning to end, as it is, what kind of

depth are we experiencing as a family?

What kind of relationship?

Are we a mile wide and an
inch deep, or are we really

growing together as a family?

To compare the two, a meeting is
more about what we study, a family

is about more about what we learn.

It's a learning community.

I want my group to be a learning
community, not just a studying community.

It's a learning community.

Studies about content, learning.

You know, they say all learning is
the result of failed expectations.

You know, you hear great content
or a theory, you go out, you

try it, and it doesn't work.

That's where you learn.

You go out to hit a golf ball
and you expect it to go straight,

and that doesn't happen.

You learn, or you should, or
that's going to happen a lot.

But it's in that moment of experience
that you discover, am I a learner?

And so, that's what the family or
community side should be about.

And then meetings tend to be closed.

You don't like someone to come in
20 minutes into a meeting, an hour

into a meeting, and break it up.

You know, if you have a meeting in
an office environment, you know,

you know, you got some work to get
done, and someone just shows up, hey!

You know, it just disrupts everything.

But it's hard to interrupt
a family, a community.

So this whole idea of being a community is
what I want to make sure you understand,

and I think you get that conceptually,
but I wanted to compare these two,

because I think, as group leaders, many
of us, or even as those who lead group

leaders, we think in terms of meetings.

I'll ask people to describe their group
ministry and they'll tell me when the

group meetings are for their groups.

And that's a piece of it, but
that's not the whole thing.

And so we have this bent to events, if
you will, these meetings that take place

and that's the only thing we care about.

So I focus on this more communal aspect
and, uh, I like, one of my favorite

writers is Jean Vanier, uh, who, uh,
wrote the book Community and Growth.

I highly recommend it.

And though his background is Catholic,
and there's some Catholic theology in

there, I think you would gain much, if
you're not, you know, tuned into that,

from a lot of what he says, probably
90 percent of what he says, about how

to connect to one another in community.

He says, a loving community is
attractive, and a community which is

attractive is, by definition, welcoming.

It's a welcoming community.

A community which is closed can become
stifling, and suffer from dissension

and envy, and may cease to be alive.

Love can never be static.

A human heart is either
progressing or regressing.

If it's not becoming more open, it's
closing and withering spiritually.

A community which refuses to welcome,
whether through fear or weariness

or insecurity, a desire to cling to
comfort, or just because it's fed up

with visitors, is dying spiritually.

So he says communities are open
and they're alive and they're

organic and they're vibrant.

Within communities you have meetings, and
that's the way I'd like you to see groups.

That there are set, focused,
catalytic meetings within the

context of a broader communal life.

And the degree that you can
have those two working together

I think will bring the kind of
environment you want for life change.

So my first error was not understanding
the difference between these

two, uh, environments as it were.

The second one was not understanding
informational versus transformational

use of the text, of scripture.

I'm not going to go into this long
because there's other workshops on this.

I think the Be Still workshop is
focusing on how to use Scripture

and meditate on it through Lectio
Divina and some of these disciplines.

But there is this sense as we gather
groups together, what is the role of

truth and how do we approach the Bible?

And I want to compare these two because
this was the second big error I made.

I had employed the informational
approach versus a transformational

approach to the Bible.

I had a teacher who said, uh, you
know what we need in this world

are more disillusioned people.

I thought, maybe more tax paying
people, maybe more responsible

people, but more disillusioned people?

And he said, yeah, people who
had their illusions dissed.

Because we tend to operate in
a certain frame of reference.

Some call it a paradigm, some
call it a way of thinking.

And we tend to approach the
text in an informational way.

What does it say, how can I use
it to fix something in my life?

That's not a bad thing,
it's just sometimes it's

the only way we approach it.

And so let me compare, again,
informational not being bad, but just can

we move beyond it to more transformational
experiences around the text and around

the living word, the author of the text.

So in this comparison, I, I have a couple
of things, you know, just, you can see

them on your sheet and we'll roll them
up on the screen as I talk through them.

Uh, the difference in
quantity versus quality.

Quantity asks, you know, are we there yet?

It's a famous question from
your kids, are we there yet?

It's interested in completing the journey.

Getting through the Bible in a year.

Not a bad discipline.

Just the emphasis there is on
getting through the quantity.

The quality approach
says, How long do we stay?

So we used to love about my
kids is, Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?

And then we'd get there, and then
they'd say, Do we have to leave?

Do we have to leave?

Because they liked being there.

And sometimes I feel that with the Bible.

We'll get into a text that's
very rich and very deep.

But if we're on a quantity approach,
it's sort of like, sorry, gotta leave

there now and move on to the next spot.

And people are saying, wait
a minute, there's a deep well

here I wanted to drink from.

It's, ah, sorry, but we're moving ahead.

And that's the tension you face with the
informational versus transformational

sort of view of Scripture.

We know that truth does not always
Uh, mean the amount of knowledge

that we have, because knowledge
can puff up, the Bible tells us.

So, it, it's not a bad thing, so please
hear me, I'm, I'm comparing these to kind

of go kind of beyond the informational
so that we don't just live there, but

we tend to get sort of stuck there.

Second thing is it's
linear versus holistic.

We march through Genesis to
Revelation, I like to say we're

jazzed by Genesis, excited by Exodus.

Lost in Leviticus.

Numbed by numbers and
duped in Deuteronomy.

We just get lost along the way somehow.

I mean, people start these
Bible reading programs and you

know we did it as a church.

We had, we were all doing it together.

And somewhere in book 4, there it
started to drop off pretty quickly.

And some of that's a discipline
issue and I'm not saying

it's a bad thing to do this.

Remember that.

What I am saying is, if you're driven
by everything has to be linear Just

because the Bible's books were put
together in a linear fashion doesn't

mean it has to be read that way.

You know, you've studied history, you know
things that are taking place in 1st, 2nd

Kings, and those areas are, there's psalms
written about that, and so it's good to

bounce back and forth between those two.

As you're going through the book
of Acts, it's good to read some

of the epistles that Paul wrote
through his journey in Acts.

Because they're not linear, it's
this full narrative that's going on.

And so to simply do the linear kind
of approach can kind of cramp things.

The holistic view allows us to look at the
whole person, the whole story, and connect

it to the text that we're looking at.

So that was another
insight for me at the time.

By the way, a book that really helped
me with this was Shaped by the Word.

Shaped by the Word by Robert Mulholland.

Shaped by the Word.

You could Google it or Amazon or
whatever you do to find stuff.

Um, but he goes through this
informational versus transformational.

I'm summarizing some of his
thinking and some other things

that I've seen and used myself.

Uh, what's our attitude?

It can be more critical,
and I mean critical not in a

negative sense, but to critique.

The informational approach tends to be
critical like a scientist is critical.

Where the heart toward the
transformational approach tends to

be a little more, you know, I'm not
in control here, I'm, I'm gonna be

a little more humble with the text.

And so we tend to be skeptical
and to analyze and to dissect,

versus to experience, and to open
ourselves up and say, okay, I'm not.

I don't know what you're saying here, God.

I just need to have an open
heart and to listen to you.

I, I'm not pretending to want
to tear all this apart yet.

I want to meet you first.

So that's a little bit of a shift.

Individual versus communal.

Uh, I like to say this, you know,
learn to study the Bible for yourself.

Just don't study it by yourself.

Learn to study it for yourself.

Learn to glean truth from it.

Learn to read it and use a commentary
and to Here's what others through the

centuries have said about this great text.

But then don't just keep it to
yourself and think that you've

gained all knowledge there.

You enter into community and we all
share what we are learning from the text.

And then God shows up with spiritual
gifts of people who teach and bring

clarity and discernment and wisdom.

So yes, learn to study it for yourself.

But I just encourage people,
don't study it by yourself.

And people are kind of,
it's just a Western thing.

It's kind of like me, my
Bible, and my spiritual life.

And that's so counter Scripture.

Scripture really tells us
that we need one another.

And so I want to, uh, When we tend
to be more analytical of a text, it

tends to be just for me and about me.

Problems versus people.

Like I mentioned earlier, the
information approach says, you

know what, there's issues in my
life that need to be addressed, and

I need to find them in the text.

Now, again, I just did this this morning.

I was looking at some things about
some speech I needed to do in a

conflict resolution with someone, and
I went to Proverbs and I looked for

verses about how to use the tongue.

It's a wise thing to do that.

What I did wasn't wrong.

There are times to mine the information
from the Bible to use it in a setting.

But I don't want to be limited
by that approach to the text.

It's also about people and their hearts
and their lives, and so the text is

a story, and the story of the Bible
helps me relate to people's stories.

So it's not just information that I
glean to use to solve problems, but

stuff that should work in me to make me
a better person as I relate to people.

I realize sometimes in the informational
approaches I was doing with that group,

it was more about studying Jesus than
knowing Jesus, a big mistake I made.

And I would just ask it this way, would
you rather be dissected or discovered?

Would you rather be studied or
known, examined or experienced?

See, I think sometimes when we come to
the text, particularly the Gospels, we

don't pause long enough to meet Jesus.

We just want to hear what he said
again and kind of use it in some way.

We want to kind of take him apart.

Why did he say this?

Well, I think he was doing that.

Okay, it's not all bad.

But if we stop there, we never meet him.

And so Jesus was very frustrated
with the religious leaders of his day

for doing that consistently to him.

And he said, you know, as a
matter of fact, the way you look

at the Bible, he said, He said,
I think it was in, uh, Luke 5.

He says, we You study the Scriptures
because in them you think you

have eternal life, but you refuse
to come to me and have life.

And that's the difference, I think.

They wanted to kind of study about
God, but they could never meet God.

The Pharisees never did that.

Actually, that was, uh, John 5, 39, if
you want that verse, where Jesus said

that you diligently study the Scriptures
because in them you think you have life.

But you refuse to come to me.

Studying Jesus versus knowing Jesus.

Studying Jesus leads to pride.

Knowing Him leads to humility.

Studying God or studying
about God will define God, but

knowing Him will reveal Him.

Studying God corrects us,
knowing Him surrenders us.

Studying God will help us judge
others, knowing God convicts us.

And so I, I just, I lay that out there
too, and it's not just about studying,

it is about knowing and meeting Jesus.

And then finally, do you want
to be a master of the text

or be mastered by the text?

Uh, more of our ancient traditions
in Christiana used to use this

phrase, to do life under the word.

It was an image of being submissive to
the word as it mastered us, as we let

truth work in our hearts and souls.

And I was trained to be
a master of the text.

And that's not a bad thing, to
learn the Bible and what it says.

But we should also be doing life under
the Word and to be mastered by it.

So we ask the question, not just
what does it say and how do I

understand it, but what is the
response of my soul to this truth?

And in the community in which I live.

And so with that as a backdrop,
those were two big errors.

I was approaching the Bible and
how I use truth in a group wrong.

And I misunderstood the
function of a meeting.

That it was a place of community
that transcended just an event.

And, uh, I didn't create an
environment for growth with that.

I've had to learn over time
that there's other components.

And what I'd like to take us through
now are some, sort of, three big

ideas about the environment that
you can create in a proactive way.

In a group.

So having that as a backdrop that,
Again, there's a way we approach truth

and a way we approach how we gather.

Those two things are the initial
parts of the environment.

So entering into that kind of
environment, I want to talk about

three things I think Jesus did as
he worked with his little community.

One of the things I love to do
is see how Jesus led his group.

And, uh, I would go to school
on that if you're group people.

And a classic text, it's not the
only one, but John 13 through

17, we have an extended And if
you have a red letter Bible, you

see it's almost all red letters.

It's an extended time of
Jesus with the twelve.

And you see him teaching,
you see him praying, you see

him leading them somewhere.

They have some dialogue.

It's great insight into what
Jesus did when he gathered

with his little community.

Now, it's not this big prescriptive
formula kind of thing, but I

think there's insights from it.

And I realize that Jesus did
a number of things, but he

had some big concepts there.

And one of them was this idea
of the fellowship of the table.

That the first thing that
Jesus did is he used the table.

He called people to the table.

The table was a centerpiece in
many ways of Jesus both theology

and his practice and ministry.

And I think we need to rediscover that.

I know Randy hinted at that a little
bit yesterday and talked a little

bit in his session about that.

But Jesus did a lot of his
ministry around the table.

He had dinner with Pharisees.

He describes the marriage
supper of the lamb.

Jesus shows up to, for, to turn
water into wine at a wedding.

And so if I am a person who, you
know, is wealthy or poor, or black or

white, or male, female, wherever my
background is, whatever my story is,

when I come to the table and there's
some food, or there's that environment

that's like that, it says, you know
what, we're on equal footing here.

And people ask me, what do you
think is the best ingredient to

make a small group successful?

Food.

And I used to laugh at that and
go, ah, but I have discovered that.

And it doesn't have to be a big meal,
but I know when we gather on Friday

mornings, we get a bunch of guys
together before most of them have to

head off to work at a certain time.

And the food's a big deal to
come in and have some coffee and

something to eat and start to talk.

We spend probably a third of our time in
the kitchen before we move into a circle

where we're We're talking about scripture
and praying and doing other things.

And I used to, I used to
lament that time years ago.

I used to think, when are we
going to get to the real deal?

Missing that that was
part of the real deal.

That those table fellowship moments
were the places where hearts

started to get tenderized and
people's stories came out and where

some of their needs were exposed.

And so I believe the table
truly is that kind of place.

So Jesus says, I've, I've eagerly
desired to eat this Passover

meal with you, he said to the.

To his followers when they
entered the upper room.

And that upper room community was
really built around that table.

And in Revelation 3 20,
it's an interesting passage.

We often use it evangelistically,
but you know, Jesus says, You know,

I'm going to stand at the door.

I'm going to knock.

If you hear my voice and you
open the door, I will come

in to you and I will do what?

I will dine with you.

Interesting phrase.

You and I will share a
meal, a rich fellowship.

You will eat of me, my bread, my life.

We will share that together.

I will eat with you.

And so I like to take this down to
practical small group level for a moment,

and I say, okay, if the table really
is important, how do we translate that?

Because I've experienced this, as
you have in life, in certain ethnic

groups, the table really is central.

I had a very strong Italian friend
in college, and he would, uh, He, he,

he was just a real huggy kind of guy.

We traveled across the country
and stopped in Chicago.

I never knew I'd live there one day.

And we stopped at his house on a trip
we took across the country one summer.

And, um, Pete invited us to
a Sunday dinner at his home.

And there was just the three of them.

His mother, he, uh, he
had lost his father.

His mother and his sister.

And two, uh, three of
us who were traveling.

And, uh, we came and sat
down at the first course.

And his mother brought out,
I think it was 30 sausages.

Each eight inches long.

Put them out there in a bowl of pasta.

And we ate to our hearts content.

And we went in the other room and we
waited for dessert, or so I thought.

And after 30 minutes, she called and
said, Time for the second course!

We came back in, there was
a big bowl of meatballs.

I'm not kidding, probably 80.

And another bowl of pasta.

And something else.

We did this four times.

And then we had dessert.

It took four hours.

And I just, it was, I was amazed.

I said, why does she make so much food?

He says, well, first of
all, it's convenient because

we'll eat this all week long.

But my mother likes to do it because
she likes to have time around the table.

And she likes to create a place then
where she's free the rest of the week

to just bring the food out and heat it.

So she can engage in conversation and
not be in the kitchen the whole time.

It was just a value for that family
to be together and experience time.

There was no drive
through community there.

And I think I want to call people back
to that in small group life and say, what

does the table really look like for you?

And then as I unpack the metaphor, I
realize there's a lot of kinds of tables.

So I want to walk you through some of
these and ask you to do a little analysis,

because we're going to have a little
interaction in a minute around this.

I want you to assess, where's your
group in relation to this right now?

What kind of table are you experiencing?

Is it a kitchen table?

The kitchen table is kind
of this comfortable place

where the family gathers.

Central to food.

I don't know about your house,
no matter what we do, we can't

get them out of the kitchen.

Our kitchen cannot hold the
people that are in there.

It's not a big kitchen, but when we
invite company over, they stay in there.

They sit on top of things
they should not be sitting on.

And I say, you know, the,
the living room's over here,

why don't we move in there?

And I'll, I'll lead the way, and I'll look
over my shoulder, and no one's following.

Because the food is still in the kitchen.

So we have to take the food and take it
into another room to get them to go there.

Because that feels like a safe place
to everyone to be around the kitchen.

Uh, maybe that's the feel of your
group, regardless of where it meets.

Maybe you meet in an office complex,
or maybe you meet at a restaurant,

or in a home, or wherever you meet.

Does it feel like a kitchen table?

Is it kind of that warm,
friendly, family environment?

I find sometimes the conference
table is what my group is like.

It's where you do, you, you confer,
you solve problems and address issues,

and Design strategy for the group.

You make decisions about
things that are important.

And I've been through seasons of that
where we are conferencing as a group.

I mean, we're really wrestling with
a decision about life or about a

direction or helping someone process
a decision that may be life changing.

Someone processing a job change or a move
or a crisis related to a family issue.

And that's when we confer.

The table functions that way.

Maybe yours is functioning or has from
time to time as a negotiation table.

Where we courageously address conflicts.

And name truth.

And say, you know what, we
need to work through this one.

Maybe it's more like a coffee table.

Not a lot of boundaries.

Very open and relaxed.

Kick your feet up.

It's cozy, it's warm, there's no limits.

Come when you want, leave when you want.

That's kind of the feel
of your group right now.

And that has a season.

Maybe it's a seminar table where you
really do take this book and say, we've

got some profound truth to discuss here.

We need to wrestle with it.

We need to learn it together.

Because I find myself in seasons
where I've had the kitchen table

where I'll come in and I'll say, hey
guys, you know what we're going to do?

We're rolling up our sleeves today.

We're diving in here to something
that's going to just challenge the socks

off of us and we're going to wrestle
with some really difficult truth.

And there's a time to do that.

And then maybe it's an operating table.

Or maybe The spirit is using his scalpel
on someone's soul, or a number of them

in the group at one time, and it becomes
a place where it's really cathartic.

I mean, people's lives are truly being
opened up, and they're dealing with

sin issues, or brokenness, or the
first time they've told their painful

story to someone, and their hearts are
right out there in front, on the table.

So I want you to look at your table for a
moment, and just reflect on that, and talk

about it, maybe with someone else, and
say, where are we, or where are we headed?

And then to reflect on this, Is there
a kind of table atmosphere we can

create that we haven't used before?

In other words, maybe you're the kind of
leader or host that takes people off into

the conference table because you feel
pretty safe around the conference table.

But maybe it's time to get
around the negotiation table.

Maybe the 800 pound gorilla is
sitting there in the room and no

one's named it or looked at it.

Now it's time to say, you know
what, there's an issue in this

group and we need to name it.

Ooh, maybe we need to go there.

Or maybe you've been there and
it's time to sort of kick back.

Maybe you've been in an intense
period of study and you're

saying, You know what we need?

We need some gatherings
where it's coffee table time.

Where it's a little looser
and a little more open.

And it's not so much, did
you do the assignment?

Did you read the text as it is?

How you doing?

So check in on that for a few minutes and
then I'll call us back together again.

Where's your group right now?

Okay, uh, you had a chance to
check in on that a little bit

and reflect and maybe assess.

As a leader, I try to keep that in
the back of my mind, not to, not

to manipulate the group in any way,
but to really see, you know, have we

gotten into a season where we're stuck?

Are we a certain kind of gathering
around the table, and could there

be new creativity brought to that?

So, uh, and also for a reality check,
part of a leader's job is to name

reality, and if the reality is,
this is the kind of community we

tend to be, let's talk about that.

Is that where we want to stay?

Or do we want to experience
broader, uh, table gatherings?

Uh, the next, uh, thing, uh, related
to this is looking at some table

manners, uh, using that metaphor.

What are some habits or manners
around the table that help create

that environment where the table
feels like a healing place?

And here's five that
I'll touch on briefly.

Uh, care, uh, creating a culture
that says, We are for you.

We are for you.

We really reach out to all people.

I'm there for you regardless of
background, regardless of story.

I care about you.

I like to read some of Brennan Manning
in his book, A Glimpse of Jesus.

He talks about the kind
of table Jesus had.

And he says the phrase,
he entertained sinners.

Suggests that Jesus was often the host and
may have rented a hall more than once as

he did at the Last Supper, a larger room.

The guest list would include a ragtag
parade of donkey peddlers, prostitutes,

herdsmen, slum lords, and gamblers.

A social climber, Jesus was not.

Status seekers in today's society are
selective about their dinner guests

and make elaborate preparations for
people they want to stand well with.

They wait anxiously to see if
they will be invited in return.

Consciously or unconsciously, the
power brokers and social gadflies

of our day do not underestimate
the ritual power of meal sharing.

Jesus's sinner guests were well aware
that table fellowship entailed more

than mere politeness and courtesy.

It meant peace, acceptance,
reconciliation, fraternity.

As Hans Kung notes, for Jesus, this
fellowship at table with those.

Whom the devout had written off was
not merely the expression of liberal

tolerance and humanitarian sentiment.

It was the expression of his
mission and message, peace and

reconciliation for all, without
exception, even for the moral failures.

The table is an important place to
show care and to welcome folks and

to express the concern for their
lives, their stories, their needs.

And sometimes that's the more obvious
one in groups, and most of us get that.

I mean, people come together, and
it's rare that a group doesn't care

about people, though it can happen.

It's amazing sometimes what
can happen with people.

I was just, you know, flying out
here, and um, A woman right behind

me had a, maybe one year old.

She had a backpack.

She had a bag filled with
paraphernalia that I'm so glad

our kids are past the age of.

Uh, bottles and things people drool
into, and all kinds of stuff in that bag.

She had another, her
purse over her shoulder.

She had a duffel bag that
probably weighed, because

I picked it up, 40 pounds.

And she had that on her other side,
and she was pushing a stroller.

I don't know how she did this.

And she was moving down the aisle
and bumping into people, and they

were stepping out of the way.

And.

And I don't always do this, so I'm
not doing a pat on the back thing, I

just did the, do you need any help?

And she looked at me as if to say, oh
you have spoken the words, oh wise one.

You know, she was just dying
under the weight of this.

And I didn't get to do a lot with her
because it was right at the plane, but

I took that big heavy red shoulder bag
she had, and she folded up the thing,

and I just carried a couple things, and I
handed it to the flight attendant, because

I had two bags, and I said, take this.

And it was interesting, his initial
response was, Like, that's not my job.

And then I went, she needs your help.

And he said, are you with her?

What has that got to do with it?

You know?

Well, I'm not with her, like, I'm
not her husband or anything, but

she needs help, what does it matter?

And then he went, oh, oh,
oh, and he took care of it.

But it was just interesting to me,
and I had this reflection, how easy

and how simple it would have been
for me, because a little voice in

me was going, you're too busy, get
to your seat, you got work to do.

And I'm sure everybody else that
passed by had the same voice.

And in that moment, thankfully I
responded, I, and to my shame as I sat

in my seat afterward, the Holy Spirit
went, you need more moments like this

'cause you tend to go past people.

'cause you're so busy, so important.

And, uh, I, I just think even
in a circle we can do that.

Someone can need help or, or,
or need to be cared for and we

think someone else will do that.

Their family will take care of
that, that friend will take care

of that Susie sitting over here.

She'll take care of that.

When the Holy Spirit's
saying no, you show care.

So that creates a great environment
around the table if we're

truly caring for each other.

Safety, to create a come as you are
culture, as John Burke describes in

his book, No Perfect People Allowed.

Create it in a come as you are culture.

That's a safe place.

A place where grace rules.

We don't want to leave
people where they're at.

We want to call them to truth and see
what God will do with their lives,

but it's not up to us to change them.

It's up for us to create a
safe place where they can meet

the living God and His truth.

A place of authenticity, let's
be real, let's put the cards on

the table and stop playing games.

So James makes this comment about
how if you look into the, the

word of God, it's like a mirror.

It's like a person who looks in a
mirror and if they look in the mirror

and see their face and then they walk
away and forget what they look like,

it's like looking into the word of God
and understanding what it says and then

walking away like you never read it.

Um, and not being real with the truth
about who you are and what God is doing

and pretending you didn't see that.

It would be like saying, no,
I don't know what I look like

after looking in a mirror.

Something warped about that.

Now safety and authenticity go
together to create a very open

environment around the table.

Now I want to read you a couple
comments of people and the things

they will say in an environment
where safety and authenticity rule.

Uh, we had some people fill out some
cards, uh, in a context I'm not going

to describe at length that was very
safe, where they described what they

were struggling with, and I'm just
going to read them to you, uh, with

permission and anonymously, but, um.

We had talked about the prodigal and
coming home, and the story of the

prodigal son, which as you know is
more about the father than the son.

About a father who still stands with open
arms, regardless of what the son has done.

The son turns to come home and
he says, You know, maybe this

God won't take me back, this
father, because I've strayed away.

Maybe I can come back as a slave.

Maybe I can live away from the home and
the property where the slaves live, and

I'll get three square meals a day, and
at least I'll have a roof over my head.

But the father says, No, I'm
going to take you back as a son.

Despite what you've done.

So we talked about that, and And in the
context of that, I asked people to write

down what it meant for them to come home.

And in the context of safety
and authenticity, these are

the kinds of things they said.

Lord God, thank you so much for loving me.

Thank you for healing me and
believing in me and blessing me.

Thank you for giving me
so many passions for you.

Thank you so much for
the help you give me.

Thank you for teaching me and
leading me toward worship.

I am so, so, so, so sorry for my
messing up and messing with porn lately.

I am so, so, so sorry I
don't spend my time with you.

I am so, so, so sorry
I don't trust you more.

Lead me, Lord.

I don't want to lose this kind of feeling.

I love you.

Amen.

Father, I acknowledge my
critical judgmental ways,

especially with my husband.

This has not only separated
me from him, but you too.

I'm sorry.

Forgive me and make me new.

Make my heart new.

Draw me to you and away
from that critical spirit.

For the Wednesday and the Wednesday
before and all the days, bring me

home from the last eleven years.

The food, the lack of, and too much of,
and the throwing up, and the exercising,

and everything else bring me back.

I am tired of being so sad all the time.

I am tired of going to sleep every
night crying and alone and dreaming

of the man who will kiss me goodnight.

I am tired of feeling unwanted,
unloved, and undesirable.

Lord, I need you to be enough.

I'm not ready to believe
in more than enough.

I just want even barely enough.

Father, meet me in my addiction of loving
sweet foods and snacks and the taste

of alcohol more than your eternal gift.

And then finally this one, um, Dear
Abba, I'm so tired, tired of others

demands, but mostly the demands, the
incessant demands I put on myself.

Can I come home?

Can I come home to your
place of peace and rest?

All I have found here
is angst and heartache.

And I'm not strong enough.

I am so tired.

I look over my shoulder and
see you, arms outstretched.

I don't have anything to give.

Let's rest, love, your daughter.

That's what happens in safe community.

People feel open to share stuff
they're challenged with because

they'll be met with grace.

They can be authentic because
they'll be met with grace and truth.

But they're not going to get shamed
and beat up for struggling with sin

and having passions and having failure.

Growth is another component of the
table where we urge and encourage

one another to take steps forward.

We spur one another on to love
and good deeds, as was mentioned

earlier today in one of the sessions.

And then help.

We offer our resources.

That's such a neat thing to
watch people show up with

resources, financial and other.

And that's the real test
of me of some communities.

Will they put their money
where their mouth is?

It's amazing to watch a group of people
actually part with that which the world

says is our treasure, and to give it
to people who need that kind of help.

And I've experienced so much of this.

I know many of you have.

We just have to be reminded of
what this kind of help means.

It can be little things.

Help with someone this
season on their taxes.

Help with someone cleaning
out a part of their house.

We had a flood in our basement while I was
in, uh, away speaking, uh, out of, out of

the States, actually the continental U.

S.

And we got a phone call at four o'clock
in the morning from an insurance person

asking us about the water damage to
our basement and I was like, excuse me?

And the person who was house
sitting for us had called them

to tell them of the disaster.

So it was a beautiful moment.

And uh, I watched as we could not get
home, a whole neighborhood community

gather around and empty stuff out of
the basement and dry things out and call

insurance people and set up everything.

I mean.

They took care of a real mess.

Somebody sent me an email and said,
We're kind of glad you're not here.

Um, but you know what?

Don't worry.

Enjoy the time you have.

You'll have enough to deal
with when you get home.

But we've got the bases covered for you.

I mean, sometimes health in that kind
of situation is just, it's everything.

So that's a good, that's
some good table manners.

So I just ask you, look around your table.

How are the table manners?

And if these are values or practices
within themselves around the table,

I would ask you to look at those.

And maybe this is a great group
discussion and say, Hey, here's

five things, or you pick three.

And say, How are we doing?

How are we on the authenticity area?

How are we in the caregiving
and the help showing area?

How are we doing with urging
each other toward growth?

And, is this a safe group?

I remember a guy in our group said,
You know what I'd like to have?

I want a well lit group.

He said, what's that?

He said, a group where we can shine the
light of truth on it, and that's okay.

I want it to be well lit.

We don't have to hide secrets
and stuff in the darkness.

We can show up as we truly are
and watch God work on our lives.

I'd love to have a
group like that someday.

Can we move toward that?

It was a phrase that stuck
with me, a well lit group.

Very biblical kind of phrase.

And so, that's some
things around the table.

The second, uh, sort of big idea
Jesus had in the upper room.

And was a part of his ministry,
was the ministry of the towel.

Now these three words that begin
with T are all in the text.

We're going to talk about
table, towel, and truth.

And since we're at Saddleback,
I thought I'd do that.

So we'd have the three T's.

Just having a little fun.

Uh, table, towel, and truth.

I really think that's the
way Jesus sort of worked.

Call people to the table, put
on a towel, serve them, and

spoke truth and practiced it.

So, in this whole table area, I want to
show you something first and then let

the values sort of speak for themselves.

I have a video clip I'd like to show you.

It's some people who decided,
as a group, they were going

to pick up the towel together.

And, uh, this is, uh, what's happening
in some of our neighborhood communities.

So you're going to hear some neighborhood
kinds of conversation going on.

But this is a leader telling their
story, actually a coach of some

leaders, on how both their group and a
group they were coaching got involved.

In a tragedy that was taking place in
the neighborhood and decided to show up

in someone's life and the power of The
towel and how that can transform people.

Let's watch this clip for a few minutes

Video Speaker 1: It became really
clear to me that I was Supposed to go

do something that really didn't fit
into my agenda I just really was not

sure that I was supposed to do this
or maybe I was even afraid to do it my

friend Dorothy her brother in law Dan
was diagnosed with a form of leukemia.

And in a two month span of time, their
four month old baby was hospitalized.

They had Dan's diagnosis.

They were, he lost his job and therefore
the medical insurance and their home

was in danger of being foreclosed.

So she

Bill Donahue: had thought of
writing a letter and asking our

neighborhood to support them
in a variety of different ways.

And basically my response to her
was just, just write the letter

and just see what God does.

Video Speaker 1: I enclosed in the
note, or in the letter, I added a little

portion that said, even if you can't,
um, give a gift or donate to the family

at this time, would you please fill
out an index card just with a message

of hope for the family and sign it.

And then we'll put them in a blessing
book and give it to the family

with any gifts that we receive.

Some of the women from my small group
went to my neighbor Dorothy's home to

give her the gifts from the neighborhood.

And, um, we had the blessing book
and inside the book we wrote a

little message to the family.

Um, Dan and Sue were not believers.

We wrote in the front, Dear Dan and
Sue, God speaks to us in three ways.

Through his word, through the Holy
Spirit, and through other Christians.

This is a gift from God.

Merry Christmas.

I opened up

Bill Donahue: the envelope and, uh, it
was just a staggering amount of money

that the neighborhood had collected.

And there was also a big blanket
in there that my neighborhood made.

And in this big bag that they had
brought were all kinds of wrapped

Christmas presents for the kids.

And it was just It's unbelievable,
just a mind boggling thing, and they

had a book that everyone who brought a
donation of any kind had written just on

a little card, a prayer, a blessing, a

Video Speaker 1: something.

It was a few days after Christmas then
that Nick and Dorothy, my neighbors, went

to visit Dan and Sue, and they talked
with them, and Dan told them that he

knew his life was going to be different.

Because he couldn't believe there
were all these people that cared

about him that he didn't know.

Bill Donahue: He went, it was several
days after Dan and Sue had received

this gift from the neighborhood.

And my husband walked
over and talked to Dan.

We prayed in their, uh, in
their living room together

after a good long conversation.

And, um, Dan was really ready
to have God come into his heart.

Video Speaker 1: It was, it was
a really neat thing to just know

that our neighborhood had somehow,
and ultimately our small group had

touched the lives of these people.

And it was shortly after that time
period that Dan went in for a bone marrow

transplant to Loyola down in Chicago.

So he

Bill Donahue: was in the
hospital in the beginning of

February and started the process.

And, um, just, you know,
horrendously ill and very, very sick.

And in through February and into
March, um, went towards the end of

June, he went back into the hospital.

And just kept getting
worse and worse and worse.

And in July, July 10th, he
had a minor heart attack.

Because his body was just
Beginning to fill with fluids

and everything was shutting down.

And they had to put him on a ventilator.

And he looked at my sister,
and he said, The Lord is here

with us, so it's gonna be okay.

And, uh, we walked out of the room and
we were able to come back in about 4.

And, uh, he was unconscious and
just, you know, laying there

letting the machine breathe for him.

And he just kept, about 4 o'clock, sort
of having heart attack after heart attack.

And he died at 6.

30 on July 11th.

Dan's with Christ because people
went and did things to help him.

It was the community around
here that did things that, to

this day, I don't understand.

Video Speaker 1: I was really
resistant to the idea in the beginning.

Maybe I was afraid that people would
be upset that we were asking for money.

Um, and I knew that my life was crazy.

It really, um, changed my heart.

I just, I just at one point said,
you know, whatever you want, God.

And it just unfolded into this huge
event, um, affecting their life in

a way that I never even dreamed.

Bill Donahue: We need to love each other.

And, uh, when you hear it, when
it tugs at you, do something,

because you just don't know.

And I can't tell you how wonderful a gift
is when you actually know the ending.

I know you have lots of stories like
that too, they're powerful stories.

And it reminds us of just this, put a
towel over your arm, begin to serve.

And here's some things I see from
that story, it's just, kind of,

sort of, what are towel habits?

Because Jesus did this, he picked
up a towel, he created this

humble place, a place of humility.

And, uh, washed the disciples feet.

And it was a metaphor
for his servant spirit.

Matter of fact, Philippians says that, in
some translations it says that, although

he was God, he took the form of a servant.

Greek scholars have looked at that
and said, you know, it can just

as easily be translated, because.

And that our tendency might be
to have translated, although.

But rather it might, it might,
supposed to read, that because he was

God, he took the form of a servant.

And that rings so true with
the character of Jesus.

And so, what are some TAL habits?

And having another's mindset.

This, friends, is just, you know, it's
something we always have to push for

in such an individualistic culture.

Having another's mindset.

Uh, another flight story.

This was a year or two ago.

I was on an airplane.

It was obvious everyone was freezing.

We started to take off and, you
know, I travel a lot, so you have

these kind of interesting situations.

And the airline industry
is a service industry.

And 95 percent of the time there's
amazing people doing, you know,

incredible heroic service there.

And so I want to affirm that.

And that's why the odd ones
really stick out to me, and

you wonder how they survive.

Because in a service industry,
hotel, you know, if you're staying

in a hotel, you know, if they treat
you crummy, you're not coming back.

I mean, they're service industries.

So we're on the plane, and people, it's
taking off, and everybody's reaching

up and turning off their blowers.

And it's still blowing because it's
coming in from the main system.

And the temperature's dropping.

10 degrees.

Then you see people getting
jackets and putting them on.

And you see people grabbing blankets.

There aren't that many.

They're fighting over them, you know?

And so the flight attendant walks next to
us, comes down the aisle with a serving

thing, and we're just all freezing.

And so I said, uh, It's
just really cold in here.

And she said, I'm okay.

That's exactly what she said.

And I tried to be, you know,
keep my cool, as I, I was.

Uh, and I said, uh, you have a
sweater on, and, uh, you, you

know, you have long sleeves, as
a lot of us with short sleeves.

And I just couldn't help but notice
a lot of people putting blankets on.

I just thought maybe it
was getting a little cool.

I mean, this is what happens.

You just looked at me
like, what's your problem?

And then said, well, if I get a minute,
I'll see if I can check in on it.

Now, I just wondered how That happened
because so many, you know, flight

attentive folks are so service oriented.

Yes, how can I help you?

You know, but that kind of
stuff stands out so much.

And then I realize again in my life,
I look and go, do I have another's

mindset when I show up to my group?

Or am I showing up going,
what can this do for me today?

How do I need to grow today?

What issue can it solve in my life?

I wonder if people will care about me.

Maybe I'll get to share a lot today.

Or do I walk in and say, God,
what are you doing in this circle

and help me to be others focused?

What is the need I can meet?

What is the prayer I can pray?

And it's a growth edge for me.

And it's a discipline
that we have to take.

And it does stand out.

When you are or you are not others minded.

Listening attentively.

I remember being confronted about
this myself, sitting across the

table from an attorney, whom I
developed a relationship with.

We got together weekly to have a
lunch or a breakfast, and just pray

for each other, and be encouraging,
and challenge each other to grow.

And in the midst of one of those, he said,
Hey, I just gotta speak some truth to you.

A lot of times, when I'm sitting across
the table from you, you're looking

around the restaurant while I talk.

And it says to me, You don't give a
rip about what I'm saying right now.

It's, you're distracted.

And I, you know, I love you, I care about
you, but That happens more than I'd like

to admit and probably more than you know.

And that was a tough moment.

I have to confess, I hated
the guy for about 24 hours.

It's because he was truthful.

And the Holy Spirit's whispering,
He's right, He's right.

And so there's this thing in community
that happens in a relationship where

you realize the way we serve others
sometimes isn't doing something with

our hands, it's being attentive.

It's listening.

It's looking someone in the
eye and asking them a question.

Tell me more about that.

So really, that happened to you?

Why was that exciting for you?

Man, tell the whole group that story.

That's incredible.

To be attentive to someone
is a way of serving them.

Identify needs in your group,
uh, and they'll be popping

up all over, as I mentioned.

One thing I served, or I noticed in this
video, and I notice in groups, take risks.

I like when the woman said, you
know, Carol goes, And so, you

know, it was a little scary for
me, but I decided to do this.

Take a risk.

Serve someone in some way.

Risk will always challenge you to grow.

To place yourself in
uncomfortable situations is

what spiritually forms people.

That's why serving is so
central to spiritual formation.

It's not like we do
discipleship and we serve.

No, discipleship and
serving go hand in hand.

We have to remind ourselves of that.

First time I had a chance to speak.

I was new in seminary, I was going
to school there, uh, in Pennsylvania,

and I was involved with a little local
church part time, and doing some other

odd jobs, and someone said, Hey, I
know you've been learning to do a

little speaking in school, would you
like to use your newfound whatever,

or try it out, but I got a gig for ya.

A speaking gig.

Uh, okay, what is it?

I'd never done one of these, I taught
a Sunday school class at church, and

all I said was, well, it's speaking
to some folks in a, kind of a care

home, I mean, it's in kind of a, It's
just some teens in a situation where

they need some extra care and support.

It was a quick phone call.

I said, oh yeah, I'll do that.

So the day before, I call and go, can
you give me a closer snapshot of this?

It was right around Valentine's Day.

He says, oh yeah, I meant to tell
you, one of the reasons we wanted

you to speak is we wanted you
to speak on the topic of love.

And you're going to run into about,
there's about 13 gals in this class.

They're all about age 15 they average 7
to 8 months pregnant and have no husband.

And I said, do you have another
gig, uh, that I could do?

I have to tell you, I put down
the phone and thought, what have

I got to say to these people?

Some young whippersnapper seminary
guy who doesn't know their pain.

I'm going to walk into a room, and I did.

I walked into that room, and here was a
bunch of young pregnant gals who had no

husbands, and they looked at me like this.

And the subject was love.

And you could see they were going,
yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about love.

Been there, tried that.

And I have to tell you, I don't remember
what I said, but I do remember kind of

putting my notes aside once I got there
and just trying to identify with them

and connect with them and encourage them.

But it was a stretch to realize I've
got a huge chasm to come across here.

And if you had given me a Sunday
school class to teach on some

doctrine, I would have gone pfft.

Probably walked in and
felt really confident.

This was a humbling experience.

And very risky for me,
and I think for them too.

And it's just those kinds of
environments stretch us and change us.

And so when you're sitting there in your
circle, or you see a need outside your

circle, and you wonder, should I really
challenge the group to go meet that need?

No, they might feel like I'm
coming on a little strong.

Challenge them.

Hey, let's roll up our sleeves
and go do this some weekend.

What are you kidding?

Yeah, let's do it.

And see what God does.

Take some risks.

And then help people use their
gifts in ways that, that can

be just deployed for service.

And there's been a lot of talk
around that this, uh, session, and

I won't go into that in any detail.

The third component I think Jesus
called people to, as I mentioned, not

just to the fellowship of the table
or the ministry of the towel, but

to practice and live out the truth.

It was a big value for Jesus.

If the table provides a healing
place, And the Tao creates a

humble environment, I think the
truth truly produces a holy place.

The truth is a, creates a holy place.

And the Old Testament, uh, the psalm
that says, Lord send out your light

and your truth, let them lead me,
let them lead me to your holy hill.

God's light and his truth
always lead you to a holy place.

And those holy places
are dangerous places.

Burning bush encounters
can be dangerous places.

I like to listen to Erwin
McManus, like many of you.

I love his teaching.

It's provocative and it's challenging.

He came to Willow Creek and taught and
he said, You know, Paul went to some very

dangerous places in his ministry, but none
of them were dangerous until he got there.

Because when Paul showed up,
he created all kinds of havoc.

Everything was going pretty good
until Paul showed up in Ephesus.

He started preaching about the one
true God and the idol makers had a fit

because people were turning from idols
to the one true God and they were losing

business so they tried to kill him.

In another setting they had to leave
him out through the wall in Jerusalem

to get him out of the way because
people were going to kill him.

So everywhere Paul went he
created dust and dirt and havoc.

In Acts 9, you ever read
his conversion story?

It's an amazing story.

I shared it with some folks
that might have been here from

Saddleback a few weeks ago.

But when you look at Acts 9 and
you see how Paul came to faith.

And you see what happened
initially, and how he went out

and started sharing his faith.

And the disciples were very concerned.

And that's where they had to sort
of cover for him a few places.

And it says, Paul was active
and, you know, running around.

The disciples were worried, and
they had to let him out of the

wall, and, you know, all this stuff.

And it says, finally the disciples put
Paul, they sent him back to Tarsus.

And it says, and the church
experienced a season of rest.

You read it.

It's exactly what it says.

It's like when Paul left
town, the church went, Whew!

What was that?

What was that that just came through?

I don't know, but it was wild.

It was crazy.

I can't imagine him in his younger days.

Uh, what a character.

But there's something about, uh, truth
when we start to name it, proclaim

it, and practice it that creates a
dangerous place in a good kind of way.

You know, the forces of evil
don't like truth at work.

Truth discussed, truth meditated
on, truth debated, okay.

Truth practiced, uh oh, got a problem.

So let's look at some truth
training, and it truly is training.

John Ortberg was great around Willow
Creek, he would use this phrase

over and over, there's a difference
between training and trying.

You can try to run a marathon,
you can train to run a marathon.

You can try to practice truth or
you can train to practice truth.

And when you train, you ask for wisdom
and you say, God, today I will try to

take a step out today and I will actually
practice what you are talking about.

I will give, I will share, I will
love, and I will take actual steps.

And I may fail, but I'm going to
begin a training program that, that

says I will do certain activities.

I will immerse myself in scripture.

I will devote myself to prayer.

I will connect with a community.

I will open my life up.

And I will do that on a regular
basis because I want to learn to be

a person who can put the truth into
practice and not just talk about it.

So some obvious ones
are to obey scripture.

Just flat out obey it.

Not always easy to do.

I mean some of this stuff is like,
I get this Bill, but you know

what it's like in those moments.

Now here I am, I'm on the staff of
this great church, Willow Creek, we

have a reputation in our community.

I was with State Farm Insurance,
still am, not a plug, just reality.

I had two fender benders within about
two days of each other, both my fault.

Both very close to one another on my car.

And I called State Farm, this is 15 years
ago, I picked up the phone and called

State Farm and said, I've had an accident.

And there's been a collision and I need to
have someone come out and look at the car.

And I talked to the guy and I
said, you know, it's my fault.

I kind of backed into someone as
they were backing, it was my fault.

And I hung up the phone and the
Holy Spirit was all over me.

There was not an accident.

There were two accidents.

And someone probably real discerning from
their industry would figure that out.

But that wasn't the point.

It was just, since they were
so close on the car, I was

thinking, you know, two for one.

And, and here's what
my mind started to do.

Yours probably does this, maybe.

You've paid into this group for years.

They owe you.

It's just a claim.

It's just a deductible.

They're going to have to do the
same amount of work on this side

as that, and it's just a few
more brush strokes of pain, and

Bill, was it one accident or two?

Why do you keep asking that question?

So I picked up the phone, and in a
moment of humiliation, not humility,

said, uh, I need to correct my
story, and I said, I'm really sorry.

I don't want to embarrass me.

Or my church or anything else.

I said, you know me.

I said, I just lied to
you a few minutes ago.

And I told him.

And he said, well, I appreciate that.

And whacked me with another claim.

Cost me about, it probably cost me
about three or four hundred dollars

because of back to back accidents.

I don't know what it actually cost,
but that, that cost was nothing, right?

The cost of my soul was another issue.

And so sometimes obeying scriptures,
easy as some of these things are and

they sound really like, yeah, I get that.

In those moments where particularly money
is involved, tithing, oh, yeah, but,

I mean, it's tax season, God.

I may get hit with a big one.

Yep, you might.

It's just, just obey.

Trust me.

Wonderful song.

Trust and obey.

Love to sing it.

Hate to live it.

I mean, I think I'm growing, I hope
I'm growing a little where I'm learning

to love to live it, but the carnal
side of me says, do it your way.

Confess weakness.

This is a great practice of the truth to
actually say, you know, like Paul did,

I'm well content with weakness, with
insult, with persecution, with distress,

because when I'm weak, you're strong.

God's strong in me.

Now, I'd love to read that passage,
but again, it's another thing to

name it in front of a group of
people and say, you know, I'm weak.

I need your help.

Jesus said that we need to turn and
repent and become like children.

That word repent means to turn.

Unless you turn and become like
a child, he says, you can't grow.

And part of becoming like a child is
to name simplistic, simplistic kind

of sonnet, child level realities.

I am weak.

I need help.

I need help.

Now, here's the reason this really
builds community in a group.

Um, if I walk into a small
group and I say this, Hey!

Amazing week!

I just got a 10 grand bonus from work.

They moved me to a new corner office.

You should see the desk.

I have an awesome view.

My kids reports came in from school.

Straight A's across the board.

I got Harvard calling.

Anyway, full scholarship.

And, um, we're about to go on a
Hawaii vacation and somebody's

footing the bill for it.

Can you believe it?

Because there's a little
business deal tied into it.

It's not going to cost me a dime.

How are you guys doing?

Now, I'm not so sure, though
I hope they're mature enough

to celebrate my success, that
that's going to draw them to me.

It's just, you know, Parker Palmer says
there's something about our weakness

and our frailty and our brokenness
that draws us together in community.

But that our pride or our success or,
you know, even the good things, I mean,

it doesn't mean we shouldn't share
them, but that's just not the kind

of stuff that people feel drawn to,
because they can't identify with that.

But when you say, I'm weak.

I can't handle this temptation.

It keeps coming at me.

And if I'm in a vulnerable situation,
I'm going to give in again.

Because five other people in
that circle go, I know exactly

what you're talking about.

I sit there too, and that temptation
comes and I go, Ah, it just eats at me.

And you've created a bond then, where
together in community, you can face

sin and trial and temptation together.

Because you've formed this bond as
you practice truth by saying, I will

confess the truth, and that is, I'm weak.

I admit wrongdoing.

That's a thing we should
all say in our group.

We try to do that as a community.

We will admit wrongdoing.

I just respect this guy in our group
who just, uh, he's a CEO of about

a 450 million company, and he had
a subordinate in another state at a

location, and he went in and he just
blasted the guy about his performance.

He was telling us this story, and he
said, I remember I walked out of the

room, and I said, what have I just done?

I have just destroyed this
man's soul with my words.

And he said, it took me a little
while, but after about an hour, I

called him on the phone, I said, let's
go, come downstairs to the eating

area, let's have a cup of coffee.

And he said, the guy came like, oh
no, he's going to wail on me again.

And he said, I just stood there for
15 minutes and apologized to him.

And I thought, that took such courage.

Because the guy had done things that
required him to kind of be forceful with

him and say, you know, you're really
messing up here, but the way he had

done it was he just tore the guy down.

And to see a person who has great
authority, who could just fire the

guy and hire someone he'd rather
work with, come down and say,

I'm the one who did wrong here.

Such a powerful thing.

And to admit wrongdoing in a community
opens the door for others to do that in

a way that God's redemptive grace can
cleanse that sin and help us all grow.

Extend forgiveness to one another,
um, you know, Henry Nouwen said

that when you do this you allow
the other person not to be God.

Love that phrase.

They're not perfect.

How many of you know David Bradley?

Anybody know David Bradley?

Know of him?

He just retired from IBM a few years ago.

You're real glad that David Bradley
lives and worked for IBM because David

Bradley invented Control Alt Delete.

Yeah.

A lot of you are like,
Oh, David, you're the man.

How many times have you been in a
situation, depending on your computer,

that And what you use, but control, alt,
delete is like, thank you very much.

I remember, I wish I had that.

I did a paper in seminaries,
a Greek exegesis paper.

You know, this big complicated
thing in the Greek text.

And I had not done certain things I
should have been doing with the computer.

And it, I needed a control, alt, delete.

I lost a whole three and
a half weeks of work.

I had to start over again.

The old dog ate my thing, you know.

This was like the, the
computer ate my thing.

But, uh, The idea of being able to reboot.

There's something about forgiveness
that says, Can we reboot?

It's just reboot.

Get the thing back up again and start
like we didn't have that problem.

It's not ignoring the sin or any of that.

It's just saying, I forgive you.

I truly do.

I love you and I forgive you.

The power that that has, the way that,
when we practice the truth by extending

forgiveness, it has great power.

Nowen writes this in his book,
In the Name of Jesus, which

is a book about leadership.

Again, I recommend it, In the
Name of Jesus, by Henry Nowen.

It says, It's precisely the men
and women who are dedicated to

spiritual leadership who are easily
subject to very raw carnality.

The reason for this is that
they do not know how to live

the truth of the Incarnation.

They separate themselves from
their own concrete community.

Try to deal with their needs by ignoring
them or satisfying them in distant and

anonymous places And then experience an
increasing split between their own most

private inner world and the good news
that they announced when spirituality

becomes spiritualization life in the
body becomes carnality When ministers

live their ministry mostly in their
heads And relate to the gospel as a

set of valuable ideas to be announced.

The body quickly takes
revenge by screaming loudly

for affection and intimacy.

Christian leaders are called to live
the incarnation that is to live in the

body, not only in their own bodies,
but also in the corporate body of

the community, and to discover there
the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Confession and forgiveness are
precisely the disciplines by which

spiritualization and carnality can be
avoided, and true incarnation lived out.

Through confession, the dark powers
are taken out of their carnal

isolation, brought into the light,
and made visible to the community.

Through forgiveness, they are disarmed
and dispelled, and a new integration

between body and spirit is made possible.

Very healing.

Practice the truth in your little
communities with forgiveness,

confession of what's wrong,
and then express convictions.

It's okay to express convictions.

When we extend grace and we tell
people we accept them for who they are

and all that as they show up, we're
not saying we don't have convictions

about truth and about right and wrong.

So, we can stand on that truth.

That's part of practicing
the truth as well.

And so that's the, that's kind of
what I wanted to leave you today,

to remember a couple big ideas.

First, we're environmentalists.

This environment of how we view
this gathering called a meeting.

You know, is it just a meeting or
is it a catalyst to a community?

And then how we work with
the truth in a group.

Is it purely for information or
do we lean too strongly that way?

Or are we really asking of
it to change us and shape us?

us.

That's that one part.

And then to do some things around table,
towel, and truth and think, okay, how do I

call people or invite them to the table in
a way that's fresh and new and engaging?

How do we encourage one another
to put a towel over our arm?

And how do we practice this
truth that we love to learn and

read and study and pray through?

And I think if you work around those,
that's about the best you can do is

say, God, here's, here's my side of it.

If he was, I'm, I'm doing my best with
others who lead in this small group.

to create an environment, and we invite
you to show up and have your way.

We don't control it.

We simply make invitations
into this environment.

Jesus did that and in John 13 He
said, you know, do as I've done.

Do exactly as I've done.

First He did it actually, and then
in John 17 and at the end of John 13

as well, He says, just do what I do.

Practice what I practice.

And so, uh, I wanted to
emulate Jesus in that way.

Uh, what it looks like in
reality in my little community

is about a guy named Roger.

Roger, uh, says some amazing things,
and I, it's been amazing to see what

the table towel truth sort of thing
has done in his life and in his family.

Uh, I asked people about a year and a half
ago, I'd led a number of groups, I moved

into a new neighborhood in the last few
years, I've gotten to know people there.

A group I was a part of had ended.

And so in our new neighborhood strategy,
I got to know people in the neighborhood.

Some of them attended
Willow, some did not.

And, uh, I eventually
put a group together.

And I remember asking, in this case it
was a men's group, I asked these six

guys, do you want to get in a group?

And the answers were pretty quick, yeah,
because we built some relationship.

It was, hey, you know, why don't we
meet together once a week and encourage

each other and pray and talk about God?

And they were like, yeah, let's do that.

And so, uh, a couple weeks later we
were having breakfast and I said,

I need to ask you why you said yes.

When I said, would you like to
be in a group, why'd you say yes?

And I went around the circle.

And John, who's my stay at home dad in the
group, said, I wanted adult conversation.

You, uh, mostly women would understand
that more than some guys here, but,

Uh, John's just very active in our
community, uh, on boards and stuff.

But a few years back, uh, he
and his wife both working.

And, Career sort of took off
financially and his was sort of ling.

And when they had another child
decided he would stay home.

And, uh, he's been a great guy and a
great servant to the neighborhood and to

our families and just, just a neat guy.

He's our real down to earth kinda guy.

John prays like this.

Um, God.

Uh, this is John.

Uh, he a, it's a pretty new believer.

He said, God, this is John.

And, uh, one time he said this, I know,
uh, when you look down on our group

here, you see a can of mixed nuts.

And, uh, that's what we are,
and very sincere, just like a

Peter kind of guy, you know.

So there's John, and, uh, you know, uh,
Al talked about needing a safe place.

He had come to faith through
basically an AA kind of group

where he really needed grace.

His wife had, uh, gone from a top
position in a corporation to within

three years becoming a gutter drunk.

And he had to live through
and deal with all that.

And at the time that she left the
home, he had three, five, seven,

nine, and eleven year old at home.

And had to come and kind of
put that back together again.

And, uh, he needed to be in a kind
of an Al Anon kind of group because

of what he was dealing with with his
wife and trying to process all this.

And through that came the faith and,
uh, learned that, he said, I'm in

a group because groups are safe.

In his experience, groups are safe places.

And I could go around and around
the table, but there's Roger.

Roger says, I'm here because even though I
don't believe, You treat me like I belong.

That was a powerful statement to me.

The second week of our meeting, he
said, you guys, you treat me like

I'm one of your family, even though
I don't believe what you believe.

And through the Tao ministry,
we've been able to serve him by

providing books for him to read,
and just being alongside his family.

I had a chance to baptize his wife
and three children, and said, Roger,

when's your time going to happen?

And it just was fun, kind
of challenge him that way.

But I've been able to serve his family.

He asked me to baptize
him when they were ready.

He said, could you be
the one that does it?

And I said, sure, I'd love to.

It was just a way to serve him.

And our group has served
him and he served our group.

It's a Motorola engineer and
he's fixing some stuff at my

house around computers and stuff.

So we serve each other.

And then the truth issue.

He was sitting at our
church just a few weeks ago.

We provide what we call
alternative communion, meaning.

People that missed our Communion service,
which we don't have every week, we

try to have it pretty frequently, uh,
you know, the elements are out, and

there's, there are people to guide
people through Communion, even though

it's not done formally in the service.

We say, if you missed this week,
you know, come forward, we have a

section over here, like you would
do over here maybe, and we'd have

people help, help you take Communion.

And he showed up there with his wife
and three kids, and they were all

sitting together, and I noticed he was
taking Communion, so I went and I sat

next to him, and I just waited till
he was done, and I was doing the same.

I had traveled that week and was not
there for service, so I took Communion.

The bread and the cup, and
we were there together.

And so after a few minutes of
prayerfulness and quiet, I just turned and

said, uh, I have to ask you a question.

Why did you What's going on in your mind
when you take the cup and eat the bread?

Because I was curious.

He said, well, look down the aisle.

I'm just so thankful.

Look at this family.

So to him, it was an act of
saying, Thank you, God, for

what you've done to my family.

It's interesting.

And I said, well, you know, Roger, and
I did this very subtly, I'm condensing,

and I said, you know, Roger, most people
that are taking this right now are

recognizing Christ's redemptive work on
the cross, stuff we've talked about, and

we went real quickly over some of the
components of that and what that meant

about salvation and his relationship
to be reconnected with God through

Christ and again, that kind of stuff.

And I said, it doesn't sound
like you're quite there yet.

He said, I'm not quite there yet.

And I said, what's holding you back?

He said, I got two things.

Is the Bible from God?

Do I have to believe that?

Second, what about my Muslim
and Jewish friends at Motorola?

They're really good people.

Why are we better than them?

Great questions, not ten second answers.

But it was a chance to practice truth
by listening to him, asking follow up

questions about why that was important to
him, not to just go, oh, I got some verses

for you that will clear that up, Raj.

Oh, some of that was in the conversation.

I answered.

We interacted.

But he needed to know that I cared.

And the reason I knew that he
knew that I cared was he turned

and said, can I ask you this?

Do you ever have doubts?

Now, in that moment, I knew the future
of our conversation rested on that.

And I said, of course I have doubts.

I mean, there's certain things I don't
have any doubt about, but I always

have times where I go, God, I just
read how you interacted with a group of

people here, and I just don't get it.

And I said, but here's one thing I don't
have a doubt about, the nature of God.

I said, I can't answer all the questions
that might be out there and answer them

well, maybe for you, I don't know, there's
things that are just hard to answer.

I mean, there's answers for what
he asked, but I mean, there's

some big questions out there.

I said, but I've watched God
in people's lives and in my

life over the last many years.

And I have found them to be true and
faithful in every single situation.

And then I look at this book, and I
look at people's stories about their

interaction with God, from over 40
different authors, over 3 different

continents, over 1, 500 different years,
and kings, and poets, and priests, and

fishermen, and they all say the same
thing about His nature and His character.

And so, I feel very strong about this
God who I've come to know and love.

But as to being able to answer
every question that comes up, I

don't, I don't feel like I always
have that ready at my fingertips.

It just, it was just that moment
to go another step further.

And I realized that conversation
was possible because every

Friday, Roger sits in a circle.

Where we try to be the table.

We try to put the towel on.

And we try to live, talk,
and practice the truth.

And that will lead to those
kinds of conversations for you.

And I trust that.

They will be transformational
in people's lives.

Uh, I've got five minutes.

So we're early, and you can actually, if
you want to slip out, you can, but I'd

like to take, if we can, I know it's a
big group, if there's a couple questions

about this environment, you say, hey,
can you clarify this, or quick question,

we'll do that for two or three, and let
you go a minute early into the sunshine.

Those of you from the
area, you don't care.

The rest of us, we do,
so I understand that.

Any questions real quick
if there's something?

Otherwise, I'll hang around for a
few minutes and you can come up.

Yes, sir.

You gotta yell.

Yeah, what do you do
at your first meeting?

Yeah.

Yeah, real quick.

I'll answer this and I'll let you go.

At a gathering, a first meeting maybe
of a group where you have a bunch of new

people show up, it's highly relational,
highly social in the sense of connecting.

It's beginning to ask people a little
bit about their story, like I did.

I did this in the second, but in
the first meeting I also asked.

Tell me a little bit about what
you're looking for from this group.

Because if they said yes, I want to
be a part of it, I'm interested in

what they hope to achieve through it.

Is there a goal they want to achieve?

Is there a relationship
they want to build?

Do they want to know more about God?

Why are they here?

And I begin that as a starting place.

And maybe read a scripture that
defines what is community about.

Something from Acts, something
from, Ephesians, something that

says, you know, we're here together
to help build each other up.

That's the goal of this community and
begin to unpack that a little bit.

That would be my first meeting.

Some food, some storytelling, getting to
know what people expect from the group

and what they also expect to bring to the
group and start that kind of conversation.

Hey, thanks folks.

God bless and have a
great rest of your day.

Don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.

And to dive in deeper get more resources
or join the small group network just

head over to small group network.com.