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Dive deep into the substance of sailing’s most engaging topics. During each episode, Teresa & Ben Carey catch up with 2 guests: cruisers, maritime professionals, and old salts — to discuss the lessons the ocean had in store for them.
AI Transcription:
Mediterranean & Kids - Oct 23, 2025
[00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to the Morning Must. I'm Ben. And I'm Theresa. We're the team behind more self expeditions and we're here to talk about what it's really like cruising around the Mediterranean. we've been operating more South Expeditions for about 11 years, and our programs are primarily in the northeast between Maine and Newfoundlands.
[00:00:17] Teresa: We've chosen that area because it makes for amazing sail training grounds, but in addition to our Northeast programs, we also wanna offer opportunities for longer expeditions. And so we're planning some big ocean passages for 2026, and in doing so, we might seize the opportunity to explore parts of the med
We might seize the opportunity to explore parts of the med, maybe even as a family. So that's why we're here today on this podcast to gather some intel about that.
Yeah. Uh, so keep an eye on our website because those offshore passage expeditions will be posted soon and those bunks will fill up fast. check out mors alpha expeditions.com and sign up for our email list in the meantime. And we, today we've got three guests with firsthand experience in the med, and we've got some questions of course.
So grab a cup of coffee or a chai and let's settle in and get started here with the morning mustard. I. Today's podcast we've got Sarah and Will Curry aboard their catamaran. Kay two of Vancouver and we've also got Jillian Greenwalt on the catch. I think it is the catch mug up. Great. So let's start, you guys with a quick position check.
find out where everybody is. We are currently laid up in Rockland, Maine. The boat's on the hard. We're gonna put the winter cover on and if, well, maybe next week, but, um, I wanna find out where your boats are, where you guys are at right now too.
I'll jump in. This is Sarah and our catamaran is currently hauled out for hurricane season in uh,Trinidad. And Will and I are physically at this moment in, uh,Vancouver, BC, Canada. Uh, here for a couple more months before we return to the boat.
Jillian, where are you at?
[00:02:08] Jillian: One of the Blark islands in Spain. we are making our way west to recross the Atlantic this winter. but we had some transmission issues, so we are waiting on, some parts.
[00:02:25] Teresa: yeah. Yeah. Isn't that just part of the life though? There's always something, I'm thinking about sailing in the mud and I think about, the other expeditions I've planned. For example, when planning a trip north, uh, we're thinking about iceberg season up here in Newfoundland and, and further north.
And then when we planned our trip to the Caribbean, we are thinking about hurricane season. So what should sailors be thinking about when they head to the med?
[00:02:49] Sarah and Will: have been sailing for, 14 years. Um, catamaran is actually our third cruising boat and we bought her sight on scene off a Facebook post, uh, in Greece back in 2022. And ironically we, we had, yeah, I know weren't, there's, there's more to that story.
There's more to that story, but we really weren't considering the med as a cruising destination at the time. We've done a lot of sailing in the Pacific and we kind of wanted to go to the Caribbean and then this boat came up, but we had, how old were they? Like two and a half year old twin boys at the time. And those flights and. how far it is from Vancouver seemed a little bit daunting, but the boat was amazing. Greece sounded cool. So we went and my goodness, it has been, it was, and still is our most favorite cruising area in the world.
[00:03:41] Teresa: The Med is, or Greece specifically.
[00:03:44] Sarah and Will: specifically the eastern Med, I would say.
[00:03:46] Teresa: Okay.
[00:03:47] Sarah and Will: Turkey, Greece probably is our favorite, but, what we didn't know that you should consider a lot in the
[00:03:54] Teresa: Hmm.
[00:03:55] Sarah and Will: is the heat and the weather. And I would say that the, the weather was probably our biggest issue in the med, of the reason that we crossed the Atlantic over to the Caribbean.
But the irony is that we miss it so much we're heading back.
[00:04:11] Teresa: That's amazing. I think you guys are so brave for buying, first of all, a boat unseen like that in a foreign country and with two little ones, I feel like that is so brave.
[00:04:23] Sarah and Will: when Sarah first came to me and she's like, I think I found our boat. And was like, oh, cool, where is it? And she said, Greece. I was like, not a chance. We're buying a boat in Greece. seemed too far at the time. Yeah. I don't know. Are we, are we brave or stupid? Luckily,
[00:04:40] Teresa: Maybe both.
[00:04:41] Sarah and Will: and it worked out okay.
[00:04:43] Teresa: Yeah. To be a little bit of both. To to be a boner. We bought ours in Panama, so, but we didn't have a little one at the time. Right.
[00:04:49] Sarah and Will: Yeah, yeah,
[00:04:50] Teresa: Well, Julian, you're there now. So what's the biggest thing you're thinking about when cruising the med?
[00:04:56] Jillian: we sailed into November, and then in January and February also we made tracks and then we sat for the spring um, Malta before we headed to Albania and Greece. And we did really love Greece. Um, it did get really hot, but then as. You get into late summer kind that August time, the sea temperature is so hot and you end up with really high cape indexes, and then it's like lightning season. Um, we, we ended up having to.
[00:05:34] Sarah and Will: stuff, right?
[00:05:35] Jillian: of what the Cape Index was like rather than like the wind. and now being in the rics, we knew we didn't wanna be in the RICS for October, 'cause we were last year and it was gnarly with thunderstorms coming through. But mug up, had other plans for us.
So we're here again. And, they have this weather phenomenon. the AC spanish acronym is DANA, Dana, and these big low system storms. Come barreling through with lots of flooding if you, the flooding, like in Valencia, is from these storms and then immense amounts of lightning. so we're, we're very anti lightening as most sailors are. so that's been a huge stressor for us, I think. And, and something that I didn't hear people talk about before we came here.
[00:06:25] Teresa: Yeah, I think lightning would be incredibly stressful. I wanna hear more about this Cape Index and planning your passages based on that, because I think that's probably not familiar to a lot of our listeners.
[00:06:36] Jillian: was just gonna echo what you were saying, that it's not something we realized about the med either, especially, kind of late summer and fall, but last August, I guess we were also in the Ric Islands and, You know, come to terms with how many weather forecasts you need to be watching when you're cruising in the med and all of the cape and all the things you need to really focus on. And we were in, where were we? We were in Majorca and we saw this Dana coming, this huge system coming. We were watching the French, we were watching all of them. And it was, it was actually quite visible, like five days out. And I said to Will. wanna be in these islands for this, you know? so we did an overnighter all the way to Lac Conte, and as we were like sailing through the night, that night, we saw a whole bunch of boats on a IS heading out to the islands, heading to Iha and for Terra. And the next two days later is when all there was, you know, the 80. winds and there were like eight or 10 boats on the beach and you know, it was forecast. It's just not everyone knows how much you have to watch for it and how kind of unpredictable it is. So that all being said, I was happy to leave the med and not have to focus on that.
[00:07:55] Sarah and Will: You know, the Caribbean, the South Pacific, it's easy. It's straight winds, you know what you're getting. don't wanna scare people because the draw of the med is there enough for us to head back. I think if you're smart about it and you do fall the weather closely, you're fine. And really it's only, it's seasonal for it's, it's really August and September that seemed to be the most prevalent for that kind of activity.
[00:08:15] Jillian: had, uh, we were with friends and we were in Mayorca and um, there was some chatter in a group that were in that was talking about the Dana systems, and he is like, well, I see it coming, but it just looks like rain. And I was like, no, like it is, it's a lot of rain, but it's gonna be a lot of lightning.
You just have to trust me. And he is like, the cape is only at a thousand. I was like, I
[00:08:36] Sarah and Will: Yeah.
[00:08:36] Jillian: I know, but just wait. And sure enough, we were in an anchorage together and we just, it was. I don't know. We had two or three days of hectic thunderstorms and lots of lightning. And another boat got struck by lightning in our anchorage.
Like it was just, it was really intense. and that's, and that's October. So.
[00:08:55] Sarah and Will: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Teresa: Right now I've heard about some,
weather patterns, like the Matel Mel winds in Greece or the Rocco's in Italy. Um, and and were these things that you experienced as well?
[00:09:07] Sarah and Will: Yeah, I mean, yeah, but those are easy,
[00:09:09] Teresa: Those are easy.
[00:09:10] Sarah and Will: consistent and like, yeah. And more so in the, dotes the c um, and you kind just a constant wind that you have to be aware of and it'll blow strong for days and days. but that's not like a, a weird weather phenomenon that comes outta nowhere.
So because it's predictable, it's really not that big a deal. You just have toconscious of it and be willing to get stuck somewhere for long periods. You hold up on a acute creek island and life isn't so bad. Yeah.
[00:09:38] Jillian: I will say with the
[00:09:39] Teresa: Okay. That's good.
[00:09:39] Jillian: north wind that comes, uh, from France down, like it's, it's just wind most of the time. Uh, but because of the sea state and you end up with really steep waves. So you just have to, manage your expectations a little bit with that too, I think more so than if it was that same amount of wind in open ocean, you know?
[00:10:05] Sarah and Will: Yeah, say that for us, when we were passing through, we also ended up timing our passages for pretty calm conditions. And I think that was also kind of like between all these systems and then also with kids on board. Um, and the kids hadn't crossed an ocean before, so we didn't wanna freak them out too much in the med. Uh, we, aimed for calm conditions. We had some nice slower sailing passage. We had, we had some nice spinnaker sailing, especially the RICS and, our, our passage, well, I guess isn't really med related, but from Kades to the Canaries, that was probably our hardest part of the whole crossing outside of the,
[00:10:41] Teresa: And speaking of kids aboard, Jillian, I, I've met Sarah and Will's kids. They have little ones just like, just like, are, uh, Jillian, tell me about your kids. What do you, who do you have sail with you?
[00:10:50] Jillian: We have a nine, 12, and 15-year-old.
[00:10:54] Teresa: So I wanna hear from both of you, uh, um, all three of you about education. Um, for us, we're really thinking about education for our child and how to balance their education with our work Should we be homeschooling or what should we doing? And right now we're kind of thinking it would be amazing to put haven into a local school.
And as a family, we're already studying French together and we're thinking it would be like a total immersion experience. Could be really great. Have, have either of you ever thought about doing this? What are your thoughts on education?
[00:11:28] Jillian: Um, I'm a huge pro homeschooler boat
[00:11:31] Teresa: We'll go.
[00:11:32] Jillian: that, that was our life before we moved a board. So I, um, and that's not to discredit what you're saying at all. And I did think about, France. We, we briefly talked about getting like a long stay visa for France. And uh, when I talked to another family who had done it, but on land, they were, they were, explained that France is very strict.
Everyone goes to public schools. So unless you have extenuating circumstances, like Olympic level athletes, like homeschooling just isn't in the cards. And I was like, well, that would be fine, except then I felt I would be tied sitting still for however long the school year is nine months. which is not why I wanted to be in the med, 'cause I wanted to go see things.
So for us, it, it didn't work out. it didn't match our goals, but I think it's a fantastic idea.
[00:12:22] Sarah and Will: um, our boys are, are younger. I mean, they're six now, so. Grade one age in our school system and we started out this whole thing. They've been on, you know, on board since they were babies on and off we're, we generally are on the boat six months. Six and six for the past, yeah, 14 years. we. Left the med to go to the Caribbean with the idea that then we would be on the boat during kind of the school year and we would homeschool and then back in Vancouver for the beautiful summer months. but this year we tried something different because we were back here in September. We actually registered them for grade one in our local school and they are thriving. So it's been a really kind of neat eye-opening experience to see how cool, like. Being part of the community is here. Yeah. Uh, our, our new kind of thought is to like a hybrid of like. Um, a semester in school in Vancouver, and then the spring and kind of the summer in the med with some kind of tutoring and,It's been pretty cool though to see them in like the public school environment and the, the teacher has been so amazed at how well the boys can adapt, have, have adapted.
[00:13:39] Teresa: Yeah.
[00:13:40] Sarah and Will: that's been their life since they've been born,
[00:13:42] Teresa: Adapting. Adapting.
[00:13:44] Sarah and Will: Yeah.
[00:13:45] Teresa: Very good at that. That's amazing. It is nice to hear that they're thriving. I, um, you mentioned community and I wanna talk a little bit more about community because this for me is very important and community in general is just an important aspect of a healthy lifestyle.
There's been, some research that shows that. Integrating into a community or finding a community can take, can take several years or, or more. And I think that would be even harder with a language barrier. So, as a family, we, we went and lived in Italy for, uh, three months, a few years ago. But there we were living in an intentional community.
Everyone was seeking community and connections at the time we all started together. It was kind of a built in community and there was a school for all the, all the children. So as a cruiser, how do you all find community while cruising the med? And what is that like for the adults versus the children?
[00:14:40] Jillian: we, by luck, a couple other boats had crossed before us last year and they hooked us up with a really great WhatsApp community of kid boats here in the med. So by the time we landed in Gibraltar, We were already connecting with kid boats. Of course they were going the other way, but it, it didn't matter.
It was just great to meet other kids, especially after a summer with nothing. Yeah, it is,
[00:15:03] Sarah and Will: the scabby? Is that the scabby group? Yeah.
[00:15:07] Jillian: it,
[00:15:08] Sarah and Will: That's great.
[00:15:10] Jillian: and I, I was like, we will find the kid boats. We will connect with the kid boats. And so we, we pushed ourselves to, follow tracks to find other kid boats. And we found some. In October last year. And then, we're able to buddy boat a little bit. but then when we got to Malta, we knew that there were already kid boats there in the marina. so we settled in for two, two and a half months and were able to make some good connections for the kids and for the grownups. and that was our summer crew.
We had one Anchorage in Greece where we had like, I don't know, a dozen other kid boats with us. It was pretty phenomenal. and I agree Theresa, I think community is really important. and we really scrapped some idealistic cruising ground plans that I had in favor of sticking with our new friends so that everyone, had friends.
[00:15:59] Sarah and Will: when we first came to the med, we, we weren't part of like those groups yet. And also our kids were a little bit younger, but we struggled a bit that first season, that first year to like meet other people because there are so many charter boats. And also it's like. You have all these islands and all these places to go in the med where people are just going, you're like, ah, we're going north, but they're going south or west or east.
Like the other places we've cruised, like Pacific Mexico for example, or even the South Pacific and the Caribbean. Everyone's following the same route. It's kind of like up or down a coast or through an island chain. It's not like. All these different directions. Mm-hmm. So we didn't really connect with anyone until we went to ION and Greece in 2024.
And then honestly, our social life was too much like with the kids. There were Way too many kid boats. It was so much fun. it's interesting though to see how. with other boats and other kid boats has changed a lot. You know, when cruised as a kid for one year when I was younger and I there was no starlink, WhatsApp, all these ways of connecting.
And so really we just had to get in the Dian, go from boat to boat. And now, especially in the med, you know, you hop in the Dini and you go over to someone else's boat and they kind of look at you like, what's wrong with you? You it's, unless
[00:17:19] Teresa: Oh wow.
[00:17:21] Sarah and Will: If, if you haven't communicated via WhatsApp or whatever, yeah,
[00:17:25] Teresa: Will do you miss that? Like hopping in the dinghy and I, I like that. That sounds like.
[00:17:30] Sarah and Will: I, still do it. I still get in the Dan and I'll always go over to our neighbors and say hi. I think it's also just, um, a smart safety thing to do, but I've normally already followed them on like all the apps. I know all about them. I know all their kids' names. I know where they last were. I know where they're going. And then I send Will over in the dingy.
[00:17:50] Jillian: uh, cruising in 2021 on the east coast of the us and it was like that will, like we still, um, every Anchorage the kids and I would get in the dinghy and we'd go around and meet people and you know, my kids were like voracious kid hunters trying to find other kids to play with. so it. we've gotten to experience a little bit of that, Especially in an anchorage where, you know, like the poor, the holding is poor. Like, I'll be like, we should go and meet our neighbors just in case. And, and it's paid out.
We had, a medical incident in Corfu wasn't us, but another boat in the Anchorage. And because we had already met our neighbor who was a doctor, we were able to, to get help right away on the scene. So, it's important to know your neighbors.
[00:18:28] Teresa: I'd love to, talk about the Anchorages 'cause I assume most of this is happening in an Anchorage. And, here in the US we're used to, just finding a cove to anchor in The Bahamas, the crib. It's very similar, and I understand that in the, in the med there's probably fewer anchorages.
And, and when you do find 'em, you have to be adaptable, like using, a stern anchor and a bow anchor or something tied to a rock as shore. And I know Theresa's done this in the Pacific Northwest because of the big tides, but let's talk about the actual anchorages themselves and things that are different or that you had to adjust to as far as anchoring.
[00:19:01] Sarah and Will: Yeah, really. ge generalizing. The med is, it's such a big area and each area kind of has different styles in the Greece, there's so many anchorages, there's so many islands. I mean, you can go anywhere and stern. Time to shore is actually pretty common. Uh, and in Turkey. Yeah. And in Turkey it's, it's the same way. We didn't go up into the Adriatic, but I've heard it's also kind of a, a similar style of mooring. one thing I will say is a lot of hear the stories like, oh, I don't wanna go to med. There's too many boats and too many charter boats and all that. true, you can always, but you can always find an anchorage to get away from it. Like we, it's very rare that we haven't been able to get away from the crowds. the lyrics in August was pretty busy. I mean, you just have to be used to a totally different type of proximity. Yeah. You know, like at when we first went over and especially like your med mooring on a busy town wall in Greece and you, you are like, why do those boats have like 15 fenders out? And then you're like. Oh yeah. Like your boat's gonna touch six other boats today. Like Yeah. You just have to like, you have to do a mental shift. We, because it's so weird coming from North America where like you never touch another boat. Yeah. And your
[00:20:11] Teresa: Wow,
[00:20:11] Sarah and Will: friendly with many boats.
[00:20:13] Teresa: that's crazy.
I'll give you a little, little story. We, when we bought the boat in, uh, Poros in Greece, uh, first of all, we never owned a cat before. And, uh, so there's a bit of a daunting learning curve on how to maneuver a boat that has a 25 foot beam. uh, like, okay, well we gotta, we gotta move from where we are.
And I said, okay, well we're gonna have to med more on the wall 'cause we got, you know, projects and things we gotta get done. And so we're going along the wall and there's basically, there's no spots. so I said to Sarah, I'm like, that's where we're going. We're going there. And she said, what do you mean?
Where it was a 30 foot boat that came out with like a not eight foot beam. Yeah. And created this little gap and will's like, there's our spot. like, okay, captain. So it was a little stressful, but um, the boat in there, but we, you literally have to like barge your way in. Push boats aside and I've heard of the stories of that, you know, doing that before we got there, but to actually experience it was a whole different matter.
Yeah. But by the time we left, we were kind of just used to that. You so used to it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:15] Teresa: I love this when, when Will describes the spot. It's this wide open gap where there are no boats. When Sarah describes this spot, it's the tiny little hole that you gotta squeeze into.
[00:21:26] Sarah and Will: Yeah, definitely. Definitely a tiny wall. Yeah. Perception's a little different there.
[00:21:30] Teresa: Any thoughts on that, Jillian?
[00:21:33] Jillian: It was a
[00:21:33] Teresa: Your learning curve for, uh, anchoring.
[00:21:36] Jillian: is spot on. Everyone drives around with their fenders out just in case. And, um, stern tying, stern mooring to the rocks in Greece was, I don't know. I thought it was an exhilarating experience. It was pretty stressful and we never had to tuck in super close, and we never tied to a town wall. We stayed in the Ionian and we just always anchored.
[00:21:54] Sarah and Will: Jillian, with your older kids, do you, if you're tying to the rocks now, um, do you send the kids to go do the lines? Because I can't wait for that.
[00:22:04] Jillian: fact, like I've never. Nope. Once I tied the rocks, I tied to the rocks, like physically got on the paddleboard and paddled out. But every other time he's, he's done it and he makes it like a challenge. Like, how, how high can I get this rope and then have to jump off the rock into the water or climb back down?
So, yeah. it's, we. do all hands on deck when we're anchoring and just if we're anchoring in a normal anchorage, like just everyone is available to help in case, just to try and keep the kids engaged. but when we're backing into the rocks, yeah, absolutely. It's the 15-year-old is, is, my number one helper for sure.
[00:22:41] Teresa: And can you guys, can you explain what that, that anchor or that stern tie is for?
[00:22:50] Jillian: they're like really deep in the middle and they're shallow up around the shoreline. Um, so if you were to just anchor, normally you wouldn't have swing room and you would only be able to fit a couple boats, but everybody will drop their, drop the hook, towards the center and then back at the wall or the, the shoreline Then you hand stern lines to, to someone in a dinky or a paddleboard, and they take them to the rocks and tie the rocks, and therefore you are in position. You have an anchor down, but you're, tied to shore in that way. You're not swinging, and you can fit a whole bunch of boats that way, just like around the edge of a cove.
[00:23:30] Teresa: I see.
[00:23:30] Sarah and Will: It's so true. We, we were in Fisca, in, um, Greece and a, a beautiful, beautiful bay. We arrived, we got one of like the prime spots 'cause all the charter boats had left that day. You also really have to monitor. Are charter boats and fleets and yeah, the
[00:23:45] Teresa: Which one?
[00:23:46] Sarah and Will: and then you can like get the good spots. we got this great spot and we were super happy. Our friends came in thought was next to us by the evening. There were two other boats in between us. Like you can literally walk from boat to boat in some of these popular pace places and we found that in Turkey as well. At certain Pines.
Yeah. Especially in, in the Gulf of Fater. Yeah. You get used to it. You do, you get used to it. And it sounds like to people that are looking for solitude, it sounds kind of horrifying, but um, it's not like you kind of just, you just get used to it. I don't really ever, it's worth it. Put it that way. It's worth it.
And then you, the evening falls and you look at your backdrop and you've got these ancient cities and it's swimming off the back, swimming off the back. It's like, it's, it's pretty incredible. I'm not gonna lie.
[00:24:32] Teresa: And you're heading back.
[00:24:33] Jillian: the back of the boat and the kids are playing and it's just, I don't know. It's really, it's really lovely. We were in one anchorage with our friends, so the kids had tied paddleboards from their boat to our boat as an obstacle course. And so when the charter boats came in, we, we left that there just to make sure, sure. Nobody came in and anchored between us.
[00:24:55] Sarah and Will: Yeah. Smart move.
[00:24:57] Teresa: sounds, this sounds pretty cool. I'm, I'm pretty excited. so. I wanna ask you guys about, some NAV tools. We're, we're big proponents of using paper charts here we're, we're in Maine and that's, you know, it's a great teaching tool for us. They provide the best foundation for, situational awareness and just learning to use your eyes and really look for navigates.
I think it's more than a teaching tool. Yeah, it, it is, but it's, it's really good for teaching tool. but we like using them in general, but when you're cruising thousands and thousands of miles and the med is what, 1300 miles long or so? So you're, you're nearly crossing an ocean when you just go from one side of the med to the other.
it's hard to have the paper charts for every area for that. Yeah. For that much space, uh, that much area. Um, so what have you guys been doing for, navigation resources and, and weather and that sort of thing? I'm, I'm kind of aware of, of an app called Navely, and I'm familiar with the Reeds almanacs.
Just curious what you've been using for navigation and weather resources and any of anything else that you've come across that you've found over there that's been really helpful.
[00:26:02] Sarah and Will: Ly no foreign land. We're pretty much all we have paper charts, but I. admit to having taken them out in very long time. predict wind, I mean all, really all online starlink. We're gonna actually get a spare starlink just in case. We're now after cruising for so many years without starlink.
We're now so heavily reliant on it that we need a backup for our starlink, like.
[00:26:26] Teresa: Um,
[00:26:27] Jillian: Um, Navionics for
[00:26:28] Teresa: oh boy.
[00:26:29] Jillian: and then we will use like Google satellite imagery. especially if we're looking for sand like here in the ballet lyrics. They're, very particular that you don't anchor on the sea grass. So be, if the light isn't quite right or the sun isn't out, trying to find the sandy spots is hard.
So we'll use that satellite image overlay to make sure that we're hitting it right and obviously yeah. Someone normally me is on the bow looking, but just for that extra peace of mind, What did you say? No foreign land? Absolutely. So in the Caribbean we would use like avionics. for Anchorages, and people don't do that here. It's all on Naval Eight or No Foreign Lands. So those are where we look for reviews on Anchorages. and then yes, predict one, but also the Windy app. Even just the free version for their lightning and their, radar we've used that a lot here.
[00:27:18] Sarah and Will: it's cool to have a,
[00:27:20] Jillian: Yeah.
[00:27:20] Sarah and Will: a paper planning chart, sort of a, as an overview, especially for kids like showing
[00:27:25] Teresa: mm-hmm.
[00:27:26] Sarah and Will: Um, but as far as like specific individual charts, uh, don't get me wrong, I love a paper chart, but we just don't use them.
[00:27:33] Teresa: Yeah. Hey Jillian, I want to ask a follow up on that. You mentioned something about not, not anchoring on the seagrass there. Where did you get that information from?
[00:27:42] Jillian: that was in the no foreign land. like around the islands, there'll be a question mark written in the
[00:27:47] Teresa: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:47] Jillian: it will say, do not anchor on the sea grass. And they have, there's a, a link to a website, a Spanish website that talks about it. But even we got fuel and Santa and they had a big sign at the fuel dock that was like, don't anchor on the sea grass. I think it's, they call it. Post Poston, posade,
[00:28:04] Teresa: it okay.
[00:28:05] Jillian: the grass, and it's a habitat for fish, they're, really protective of it.
[00:28:12] Teresa: I have another question about the paper charts. up here in Maine, I find it to be. better for navigation because you have to be so precise 'cause of all the hidden rocks and things that are very easy to bump into. And I think that chart plotters because of the delay with GPS because it sometimes estimates your position based on your past movement, and it doesn't tell you it's estimating, this is when it like loses signal and, or there's jamming.
But I, I've noticed enough of a delay and enough imperfections with GPS that I think that the paper charts are more precise and that's required here up in Maine at least. I've sailed other places where that's not a big deal. The bbis, for example, you can navigate with the place mat and be just fine.
But, what is it like in the med? is there a lot of hazards or things that you have to carefully navigate around or is it pretty straightforward?
[00:29:00] Sarah and Will: Yeah. Um, Theresa, 'cause we sort of similar navigation up here in the Pacific Northwest to
[00:29:05] Teresa: Definitely.
[00:29:05] Sarah and Will: Um, you know, a lot of like rocks and nooks and crannies that you gotta watch out for. The med is pretty easy. I mean, water visibility is really good. You can see things, there's, least in, in Greece and Eastern madd, there's very little tide. Um, makes a big difference.
[00:29:22] Teresa: That's good to know.
[00:29:24] Sarah and Will: used paper
[00:29:24] Teresa: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:25] Sarah and Will: needed to. And all the, the Navi and our Ring Marine, MFD, like it all seemed very accurate.
[00:29:32] Teresa: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:33] Sarah and Will: even like on those apps, like No Foreign Land and Navely, a coming into a bay, you probably have researched it and if there is some sort of hazard, it's normally marked right. On like little map of the anchorage or people have talked about it. Um, we were in, remember in Palermo we got stuck with engine issues and um, were in this Anchorage and we knew it wasn't kind of the. Best Anchorage and people had talked about getting hooked on different things and we tried our very best to kind anchor in a spot that we thought would be clear. Um, the visibility wasn't that great, but course we got completely wrapped around some sort of for option on object on the bottom. like a, it was like dive, uh, like compressor on the, on the boat and I could get down to it just using that, but I, for the life of me, I couldn't get us free of this hook that was like buried in the sand. So we had to hire a diver and then we to get both of our sail drives rebuilt, so we got stuck there in the marina. The mechanic had to get us in the marina to do it, and we were paying 200 euros a night for. It's was atrocious and we couldn't go anywhere. We were stuck in the marina.
So it was, it was not the nicest time for sure. But I put like on no foreign land or navely, I think I was use using Navely more heavily. I put on the little map, icon mm-hmm. Of where we got stuck.
[00:30:59] Teresa: Mm.
[00:30:59] Sarah and Will: one else gets stuck there.
[00:31:01] Teresa: That's nice. I wanna talk about the cost of sailing in the med. Like how often do you go to a marina or how often do you go out to eat or things to do with your family to like sightseeing, things to do? Are there free things or is it quite expensive there?
[00:31:17] Sarah and Will: mean, as far as the marinas go, like Greece is dirt cheap. Uh, could med more on walls for eight euros a night. Um, when we were in, uh, Sydney. In Simmy, what do we pay in Simmy? Well, in Simmy, the, the guy who was collecting, he came up and he said, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
The price has gone up. It's no longer eight euro a night. It's 10 euro a night, and this is like the most magical island. So it's that type of situation. Um, the middle med I call it, is very expensive in Marina. We did not go into marinas except for when we had to do the engine work. And then the outside of the med is pretty cheap again.
Like Southern Spain and Portugal. Yeah, parts of it. It's funny because a lot of people talk about scared of the med being so expensive. I actually found it, it's probably one of the cheapest cruising grounds that we've cruised in the Caribbean's. Way more expensive. Eating out is, is relatively cheap. Like in Greece, we ate out all the time just because it was. Accessible and good. You know, you can't get a bad Greek salad in, in Greece. You pull up to the most random beaches and you order a Greek salad and it's amazing. Like a gas station. You can get a Greek salad. Yeah. But no, we've actually, we were so pleasantly surprised by the med and the cost. We, we're used to a high cost of living from Vancouver, but we found it to be grocery wise and things to do wise.
Quite cheap, reasonable, and we're shocked by the Caribbean, um, expensive it is. And, um, part of the reason we're heading back,
[00:32:44] Teresa: That's awesome. when you said the middle met, I assume that means like France and Italy,
[00:32:49] Jillian: I agree. Uh, the food has been so reasonably priced I really love grocery shopping as a cruiser. it's so much fun to figure out what people eat and then try it out ourselves. as a family of five, we don't eat out a ton. We did eat a lot of euroes in Greece, though. but everywhere else, it, it's hit and miss. It depends on where, where we're at and what we're doing. We're, we're pretty frugal, so we'll pack our lunches if we're gonna be out for the day a lot of times. But, we're heavy, gelato buyers. We, that's like, you know, we made it to another country.
Let's have gelato. Um.
[00:33:29] Teresa: Smart.
[00:33:33] Jillian: the Virgin Islands, which is quite expensive. And the kids would be like, can we eat out? And I'm like, do you want to eat out here and have hamburgers or do you wanna have gelato in Italy? So, um, yeah.
[00:33:48] Teresa: It's only, it's only five weeks away. Can you delete the delete gratification? That is willpower.
[00:33:54] Jillian: Uh, I will say that being we're in a pizza right now and
[00:33:57] Teresa: That's pretty good.
[00:33:58] Jillian: are in, um, is a very touristy town. we're not eating out here. It's expensive to eat out anywhere.and we are in the marina because our transmission is broken and we were, we lucked out that they had already flipped to winter rates because it would've been astronomical to be here,
[00:34:15] Teresa: Ah.
[00:34:15] Jillian: Were still in their summer rates.
So.
[00:34:17] Sarah and Will: wanted to interject one little thing. We made the mistake in Greece of, our kids, or, or bribing them, I guess, with a gelato at every new island that we went to, just so we'd kind of. Of enjoy the passage, but then we went to like seven islands in seven days and had to hold up our end of the bargain. I was okay with it.
[00:34:36] Jillian: so happy.
[00:34:37] Teresa: when we were in Italy, of course we had to try the gelato. And I swear we tried it maybe a half a dozen times, and I never liked it. What? Come on now. You lie.
And then how about the healthcare system? when we were in Italy. We had to use the ER and the ambulance and so I was worried about the cost of that. And um, I was jaw dropped by how cheap it was.
I was not gonna lose my house over it. And so I, I wonder, have you either of you. had to use the healthcare system for, you know, checkups or emergencies or anything like that, and how did it go?
[00:35:12] Jillian: thankfully, knock on wood. Um, I have gotten some prescriptions from the pharmacy and it's been so reasonably priced. Um, and we, but we have had friends. That have gone for a checkup or to the hospital and, and like you say, it's, it's incredibly reasonably
[00:35:28] Sarah and Will: We really met anyone that had a bad medical experience. Like we knock on wood, we haven't had any issues either, but everything seems really cheap and when you get to the Canary Islands getting, remember was great. When we were talking stocking at medical kit, talking out the the medical kit.
Yeah. it in order with pharmacies and just go pick it up. Um, yeah, no, they're really helpful.
[00:35:50] Teresa: I mean, really the only things that break the bank in cruising the med is that is the middle med if you get stuck in marinas. that's about it. Like I don't ever really. Having any experience where we're like, oh my God, this is so expensive. Like, how are we gonna afford this? It was never, it was never like that.
[00:36:09] Sarah and Will: Yeah. And you, you asked earlier about like, things to do on land with the kids and I mean, there's just all like the free museums and old kind of places, cities, castles to explore amazing hiking. Turkey was amazing that way. Yeah. There was just so much to do
[00:36:29] Teresa: Okay. I wanna go. I'm gonna go. Let's go. Benji, did you, with this in mind, did you kind of speed through the middle med to some degree?
[00:36:36] Sarah and Will: Yeah, we definitely did because of the time of year, we just knew every kind of August, September, there's some sort of big system that's hit the last few years. Um, boats have. been caught off guard. So we did speed through it. And that's also part of the reason that we're heading back 'cause we'd like to really slow down, um, do justice to all those areas that we have visited.
A lot of the med by land, but by boat is even better.
[00:37:03] Teresa: Jillian, I know you guys spent a while in Rome, right? During the off season.
[00:37:07] Jillian: thanks to those winter marina rates, we got a really good deal and we spent, uh, we were gonna just stay three weeks in December and we ended up staying all of December and two or three weeks into January before we left. And it was, it was really fantastic, um, to take Rome at a slower pace and not just run through everything as fast as possible.
And December was a fantastic time to go because it was. know, raincoat and pants, but it wasn't, it wasn't too cold and it wasn't too hot. You know, all the reviews if you're in the coliseum and it's under the blazing sun with no shade for hours. And we didn't, we didn't have any of that. So it was, it was really lovely and we went to some more off the beaten path museums and, and experiences, and we did it all. mostly with public transit, uh, which is fantastic. And when we did rent a car, I think, I think it was 'cause it was December, I think we paid something like $15 a day to rent a car. So, yeah, it was a great experience.
[00:38:08] Teresa: That's awesome. Yeah. We're big fans of the slow travel. Slow travel. Slow travel. Yeah. Just spending a while in a place and getting to know it pretty well
[00:38:17] Jillian: Yeah,
[00:38:18] Teresa: if possible, if possible.
Yeah, so I was really inspired when you were saying you were there for six weeks or so, and it's like, oh, that sounds so luxurious.
[00:38:31] Sarah and Will: I want to ask about the, um, the orcas, the classic, getting to the med or, leaving the med. You've got that little wall of orcas. It feels like you've gotta punch your way through. And I have to be honest about this, like, we can look at the weather reports.
[00:38:47] Teresa: A lot of it can be predicted so well now, and we have access to those weather reports right on the boat with the satellite, um, starlink and all that. And we can, we can know. The currents, we can know a lot of things. A lot of the, the dangers that we expect on a cruise we can anticipate except orcas, except hitting these random floating things in the water that aren't on the chart, which would be orcas and containers.
And so that, that is always the thing I dream about at night when I have bad dreams. So I wanna know about the orcas.
[00:39:17] Sarah and Will: big stress. We came through there, um, last September, and obviously through hydro vein, we, we hear it from our customers all the time, so we have a lot of people buying hydro veins as they're, you know, going through that zone because they want to have the emergency rudder or, you know, backup steering system. But we have a lot of customers that have been hit by orcas and use the hydrogen rudder to get them into port. But it's, it's interesting because. I think I'm not underplaying, I'm not undermining, you know, what's going on with the orcas, but as with anything media, social environments, things do get blown outta proportion. Because there's a lot of boats that are going through those areas that are not getting hit. Yeah, I have a lot more confidence. Like, when we went through, we were, um, the recommendations from Rui of Orcas and he's got a telegram group that will blow up your phone. reporting their safe passages and having discussions about it. Um, Facebook. as well. And then also, um, all the sightings and incidents on a map. and I was involved with him and he gave us some great recommendations and, and we didn't, um, any orcas. That was last year when I think the orcas were at that time of year. All of the pods with the whales that are doing the. hitting. further north year has been kind of crazy 'cause they're all over the place. There's just kind of more spread out. Um, that being said, my confidence has grown in going through the area, which is why I'm not so concerned about going back.
know we gotta get through a little section and then we'll, we'll stay shallow and, and then I'm not that concerned.
[00:41:02] Teresa: to your point about there being a ton of boats going through that area and, and only a small number of them being hit, there's an even smaller number of them having any sort of injury or loss because of that strike too. I, I don't think I've ever actually heard of one.
[00:41:17] Sarah and Will: are the recommendations are very clear. So if you're, if you're right in the middle of where the orcas are hunting, you're probably gonna get hit. But if you stay shallow, shallow rather than 20 meters or um, you know, 10 meters deep. You're probably gonna be okay. Yeah, we, we were in Gibraltar and I just had assumed, I hadn't done a lot of research, but I had assumed that we were just gonna go across the straight south and then along the Moroccan coast and out we go. But the recommendation was to actually go north up to Kadi and then straight out straight west from there, which was the quickest route into deep water and the least amount of, or interactions.
It kind of seemed a bit weird 'cause we were going backwards. it totally worked out. And I think that, um, and boat got hit right in the middle of the straits that did the other route we were considering like a week later. Yeah. Yeah, but one of the recommend, one of the reasons for doing that, that to this guy, um, Rui, who runs a telegram group, was that if you're along the coast of Morocco and you get hit and you've got damage into Morocco and dealing with the aftermath of it is, be quite challenging and awkward versus to fix the boat going along the coast of Spain where, you know, they've got lots of resources and people who know what they're doing and there's no language barriers and all these things. so that alone to me was reason to go north and then cut out from there essentially.
[00:42:39] Teresa: That. Jillian, you're getting ready to do that section.
[00:42:44] Jillian: Yeah, we're
[00:42:44] Teresa: on your mind?
[00:42:45] Jillian: telegram group. Brew's been amazing and, um, came in late last year, in September, and we were lucky that most of the orcas were out on the Atlantic coast and not near the Strai. so we did had zero interactions. so I'm kind of, I'm really just for luck on luck that, it will be the same, going out. I think this year, the recommendation, lots of people are crossing from the rocket Gibraltar across to Morocco and then heading out. So I'm not, I will have to double check what the, the latest advice is, for the orca. Yeah.
[00:43:26] Sarah and Will: um, no, it, it's all very interesting and we're actually working on, with Hydra vein, like a, a program of people having a, a third rudder on board, like kind of a sacrificial rudder. Um, obviously Orca can take out all your rudders, you know, two cata around rudders, a ine rudder. it all. Um, having another, a third rudder on board. So we're kind of working with ru on like a trade-in a trade plan. Like you'll just borrow a rudder for the area. Mm-hmm. And then get it back, um, just to help cruisers in the area.
[00:43:56] Teresa: It's pretty crazy.
[00:43:57] Sarah and Will: I'm gonna write, we, and you can write, bite me on the one rudder that, that you want them to take. We c we, we call it the orca Rudder. Yeah.
[00:44:07] Teresa: I love it. I love it. All right. That's awesome. Well, I think we're gonna stop there. I appreciate you guys, you guys all talking with us. This has been amazing. Oh, it's really good.
[00:44:16] Teresa: that wraps up another episode. Oh, wick did. Good episode. A good episode of the Morning Muster. If you're interested in learning more or hearing more, make sure to visit our website http://morsealpha.com. And there's a podcast section right there on our website, and we have a lot of great episodes right there.
And then also, while you're cruising our website, check out. Our sail training expeditions. We've got an exciting season ahead, so make sure to secure your booth before they're gone. And that's morse alpha.com, M-O-R-S-E alpha.com. You can also catch us on Instagram where we're known as Morse Expeditions.
And until we muster, again, remember, sail with purpose and always stay found!
So Will and Sarah, where can we find your blog or your Instagram, et cetera, all of this stuff, or the hydro vein and the hydro vein, of course.
[00:45:08] Sarah and Will: Yeah, our Instagram is sailing dot kaa, KAIA, um, Hydrae, our website, Hydra Vein. an old defunct blog, um, sv kai quest.com that our, our South Pacific travels and, yeah, doesn't, hasn't been updated in about a decade, but there we go.
[00:45:29] Teresa: Wow. A decade. Mm-hmm. I feel that. I understand that dilemma.
[00:45:34] Jillian: You
[00:45:34] Teresa: Jillian, where can we find your info? Yay. She's doing it right. Bravo. Bravo.
[00:45:42] Jillian: well, I'm not on
[00:45:43] Teresa: But you mentioned TikTok, but why? Why TikTok?
[00:45:48] Jillian: Um,
[00:45:49] Teresa: Yeah.
[00:45:50] Jillian: I just have my personal stuff that I occasionally post on and, so yeah, you. You can email
[00:45:58] Teresa: Okay,
[00:45:58] Jillian: Theresa
[00:45:59] Teresa: cool.
[00:46:00] Jillian: it to me. I.
[00:46:06] Teresa: That's awesome. Oh, now we've become your email service. I and I, I like hearing your defunct blog. I think that it's just so, it's so hard to keep up with these things as we're traveling around, isn't it? And with children. And with children, yeah. She said a decade ago, kids come along. It totally is. Yep.
Agreed. Agreed.