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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of youth sports parenting in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Liron: Okay.
Ready?
Ready.
Alright.
Make sure you, uh, make sure you laugh at the joke again though.
Yeah.
That's the, Matt, we made it to episode two.
You owe me dinner, man.
Yep.
Welcome to Chasing the Game where we try to untangle the maze of US Youth soccer as parents, as fans, and as people who grew up playing the game ourselves.
You more than me.
Of course.
We've had the privilege to spend some time with a really special guest, Luis Robles, technical director of MLS Next.
Personally, this is super exciting for me.
Um, my son who plays goalkeeper, loves Ironman, Luis, so big, big deal.
And for all of us parents, kids navigating this system, he represents something unique.
He has lived it as a player, as a dad, and now is a leader within Major League soccer, youth development.
This conversation is a special one, and we split it in two parts.
Well, first of all, frankly, one part wasn't enough, and
considering this podcast is free, no one should complain.
Okay, so we're gonna talk about Luis's path from growing up near the Mexican border, discovering soccer late, making it all the way to the Bundesliga.
Then back to the MLS, then we'll dig into what he's building now at MLS next, and what does that mean for us, his families, players, kids?
Matt: Man, I, uh, I love this conversation and, uh, for me it was just fascinating.
I mean, Luis, as a former pro, as you mentioned, who's now technical director of MLS.
The dad of a, of, of a player who's going through the system at the moment too.
I just really appreciated his candor, uh, his thoughtfulness around each of the topics, which are difficult.
Um, and it was just a great, great conversation with him, uh, with the incredible growth of MLS next in this country Youth development platform, which is directly tied to Major League Soccer with very close ties to US soccer and the respective national teams, both youth and, and men's.
The stakes are
high and the pressure is high, and I think that there's a lot of people who are trying to get it right, and I think Luis is very much at the top of that list.
Um, and we're lucky to have him in that sense because of his experience and his commitment.
In this conversation, we really aim to learn how MLS next perceives its role in growing the sport.
What's working, what still needs to change.
What does accessibility really mean when travel and costs are so high?
And how do you balance creating elite professionals with the reality that such a low percentage actually become professional soccer players?
That's what we're chasing in this episode.
The insight from someone who's been a national team, goalkeeper, a leader in MLS, and now a dad, depending on the sidelines, just like the rest of us.
Liron: Yeah.
You know, two parts, lots of stories.
Enormous amount of gushing on our side.
Hopefully some answers.
Let's get into it.
Here's part one, Luis Robles.
Luis, thank you.
I can't tell you how much we appreciate this.
Um, so you kind of have the best of both worlds for us, kind of the golden child for this,
what this podcast is trying to do.
Sorry, man.
I, I call it as it is, Luis: I haven't been called a Golden child since I was eight, so, oh, this is what it takes that out, Liron: what it takes.
Luis: So this is, this is a really new thing then, huh?
Liron: I don't know if I told you, but, uh.
Lavie, which is my son played the Luis's son on two weeks ago.
It got destroyed by them.
Eh?
It's okay.
I don't know.
It got destroyed.
It's okay.
Second half.
Ugh.
I don't know.
Yeah, I was pretty, pretty impressed.
Do you like, uh, does he enjoy his time in, uh, Cedar?
It's been excellent.
Luis: Yeah.
And honestly, he's been such a gift for me in my position at MLS next at Major League Soccer to experience it as a parent.
Because then I get to go back to work and try to make it better Liron: and just Luis: constantly find a way to make it better.
Liron: Ooh, wait.
That is amazing thought.
This is what I'm Matt, this is what I'm talking about.
See, this is what, this is the kind of stuff we need.
Matt: So, Luis, just, just by way of background, Lauren and I met through our boys who
are both, I guess mine's a late 2011.
Uh, Lauren's son is a 2012 playing for like a grassroots like EDP type of team seven years ago.
Nice.
And you know, Levi's playing at N-Y-C-F-C.
My son, up until January was playing at Med Oval, had spent time at Fa Euro, so also at MLS next.
And like kind of the trials and tribulations of going through the, the system.
I also played at four years at Division III College was in ODP and all that stuff, and, you know, lower in the, in the eighties and nineties, the golden age of you soccer.
Yeah.
So this comes from a place of.
Like we believe there's a lot of people trying to do the right things to make soccer better in this country.
We both love this game tremendously and love our kids and the kids that we get to spend time with.
Right.
Yeah.
Through, through all of this, and as you know, it's fairly complicated and.
You know, we're trying to bring people on who have had different types of experiences, and there's gonna be a lot about player journey and parent journey.
We'll have
coaches, we'll have technical directors, academy directors, you name it.
But the goal is, is not to talk about what's broken.
The goal is to try to talk about what's working, what people are thinking about.
Like quality of play.
You know, we've obviously seen you on the circuit talking about it a lot, so that's a a, we want to certainly get into it, but we want to cover off your journey and your experience and all this stuff too.
Luis: Incredible.
Liron: Great.
So yeah, I Matt: look forward to it, guys.
Thanks for having me.
Awesome.
Liron: Okay, so Luis, welcome to chasing the Game.
Look, we're coming here from a few angles.
We're we're parents, we're soccer fans.
We had kids playing the game.
We grew up playing the game.
I personally always dreamt about being a goalie, so we'll talk about that a little later, about the.
Humiliations and tribulations I had from my dad not being good enough, which obviously I try to, Luis: oh no.
Liron: Yes, yes.
That's too bad.
Yeah.
I try to be the opposite with my son, who is incidentally a goalie and adores you to knowing end.
When he heard that I was interviewing you today, he said, can I sit in?
And I go, absolutely not.
You cannot sit in.
Oh no.
Of course he can.
And nah, of course he can.
Can't be too kind to the kid.
Um.
So unfortunately for you, Luis, you've done it all in our eyes.
You've really started at this kind of preambles American life.
Grew up in the system here, went as a exported goalie into Germany, which Americans are, have been known to do in in the nineties, and then came back here, played at Red Bulls.
MLS founded the league as the league that we know.
Were one of the fathers of that league.
Now you're on the professional side of, as an architect for the next generation, and you have a son that plays in MLS next.
So all the cze, but let's get started, right, Matt?
Matt: Yeah, I'd love to go.
Um, Luis, take us back.
You grew up in Arizona.
What did the youth soccer scene looked like when you were growing up?
Luis: It was dramatically different yet, and it's.
Own way.
There's still
similarities there's, but when I think about growing up in Arizona and playing soccer there, I lived really close to the border of Mexico, like really only 15, 20 minutes.
So I actually spent a lot of time playing soccer across the border.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
I grew up in a tiny little town and I didn't pick up soccer until later, but I would say that there were some flashes when I was younger and I would play.
Rec, I think our town was too small to even have a YSO, but I did play rec, but I was a baseball player.
My dad's from Puerto Rico.
My mom's from South Korea.
I grew up a baseball player and all of my ambition from when I can remember playing sports up until the moment I switched sports was to be, was to be a professional baseball player.
Hmm.
Liron: Wow.
Luis: When, when did that change for you?
When I met Sean and much to the dismay of my dad, that friendship really was life altering.
So in fifth grade, I was playing all stars.
I met this kid named Sean.
He was pitching, I was catching, and when all star season was finished, I was gonna play fall ball.
I was convinced I was gonna play Fal ball, but.
Like the team wasn't that great.
We're going to sixth grade and I just thought, okay, well I'll, I'll wait till, and it's Arizona, so like you can play baseball in the winter and, and then of course in the spring.
And so I'll wait to join the team in the winter and I'm gonna go check out what this guy Sean is doing and we go to this select team tryout.
No idea what that means.
I love that.
I figured out very quickly.
Five minutes in, I was well out of my water outta my depths, and they cut me the first day.
So this is where the story actually kind of gets kind of interesting.
A couple weeks later, goalkeeper for the team hurts his hand.
And that goalkeeper's mom says,
my son is gonna be a professional baseball player, so he shouldn't be playing goalie.
And so then Sean was like.
Hey, my friend who's not on the team, he's, he's willing to play goalie for the team.
So that's where it started for me.
And this is where it gets really funny.
He ended up becoming a professional baseball player.
He ended up pitching for the White Sox and the Cubs, and I think the Pirates for, I think he was in the Majors for like six years.
That's unreal.
Yeah, that.
That's actually how it started.
Liron: I smell a Hollywood movie here.
Luis: Well, I wouldn't go that far.
Maybe a Hallmark Matt: movie.
Meanwhile.
Did Sean, because you were a catcher, did he automatically, did he just raise your hand to say he can play gold?
I think Sean just wanted to be on Luis: the team.
Yeah.
And then at school the next day he's like, Hey, the team, like, you can come back and join the team, but you have to play goalie.
I was like, sure.
I don't care.
So that's how it started.
Liron: And, and for you to play what, so you were kind of growing up and did, before you started playing, did, did you see a lot of soccer around you or was a sport you wanted to play?
No,
it didn't matter.
This is what, so, Luis: and, and so that's a story to be told at a different time, but this is what makes me so excited is that 32 years later when the World Cup is here in 2026, there's gonna be so much attention on and, and really so much judgment.
Evaluation on where we are as a soccer country, and some people are gonna be super cynical, some people are gonna be super positive.
I'm just glad that people are gonna be talking about soccer.
Matt: Yeah.
Luis: And when we look towards the World Cup and where we're at as league major League Soccer, when you say, did we watch soccer back then?
I mean, at 11 years old I was, it was 95.
I remember sitting and watching the very first Unlost game in Eric Aldo scoring late in the game against DC United.
Like I remember that moment, but even when you looked for soccer, you couldn't find it.
I remember the Fox Soccer Channel.
We'd have to wake up at two or three in the morning to watch games abroad.
And now I saw a crazy statistic that in 2024, in the 365 days in that year,
soccer was on TV in the United States.
351.
Matt: Yeah, no, it's incredible.
I mean, Lauren and I talk about it.
We both live in Brooklyn and you walk around Brooklyn on a Saturday or Sunday in the parks.
And you see disproportionate number of kids wearing soccer kits as opposed to American football, even the NBA.
And I understand there's certain areas where that's different, but it's just incredible.
And like it always brings a smile to my face that I see these kids all, every age, every socio, like everybody is wearing a soccer.
I mean, there's so many kids who are playing and who have found this passion 'cause the exposure.
And that's part of what we're trying to accomplish here too.
Like create more.
Remove some of the barriers where we can, or create, remove some of the opaqueness to it all.
Mm-hmm.
Because there's more people who want to be involved in it, and I think it's a struggle for certain people or certain communities to do that.
Mm-hmm.
And we want to do our part Luis: it, it's also sort of a challenge too.
Now the nice thing is some of 'em we're wearing messy jerseys, which
means it's inner Miami.
But if you even just take away the messy part, there's, I'm in the subway when I take the train to work.
There's kids everywhere wearing soccer jerseys and a lot of 'em are foreign jerseys.
So what's great about it, and I think this is part of the evaluation that comes with the 2026 World Cup, is that soccer is here.
It is a big part of the culture, and yet the challenge that I feel is how to we, how do we get more kids wearing Major League soccer jerseys?
Mm-hmm.
It was something I felt when I played for the Red Bulls.
It's amazing that these kids are wearing all these soccer jerseys.
They're not wearing Red Bull jerseys.
Mm.
And I think that's part of the challenge as well.
And it's part of the evaluation as we look at this country and the soccer culture within this country and the role that Major League Soccer plays.
Matt: Can I, can I just double click on that real quick?
So you're the technical director for MLS next, and I'd love to get into your remit as part of that role, but just a question leading into that.
And you said something really important about kids wearing MLS jerseys, and I think a part
of that is the branding of individual players.
Part of it is young players coming through the academy who become first team players.
What, how, what's the connective tissue between MLS, next MLS, next Pro and MLS, and what are those conversations about ensuring that 15, 16, 17-year-old kids who are ready.
Are able to get the type of time and minutes that they need in order to start creating that sense and that following in this country for players like that.
So take, Julian Hall is a great example, right?
Mm-hmm.
I think of a local kid.
Mm-hmm.
Grew up and played at multiple clubs in New York City is playing first team at Red Bull.
Yeah.
That's Luis: not a simple question, what you just asked there, that's, that's match for you by the way.
There's a lot to unpack, right?
When you talk about these young aspiring athletes within this country.
And them wanting to showcase their ability on the big stage that is Major League Soccer to make it to the US national team.
And what role does Major League Soccer play in help developing those players?
What role does MLS play in giving those players an opportunity to showcase themselves?
And then really, what role does MLS play in dictating soccer culture in this country?
So much there that I, I don't know if we have enough time to talk about all of it, but what I will say is as we continue through MLS next to invest in player development, it's to attack all of those and next, in and of itself won't be able to solve all of that.
But what I can share with what we're doing right now and what we're excited about is bringing the game to just to more players, creating more accessibility for.
A player pulled that for the first four years felt really exclusive and it was about the elite of the elite.
And my problem with that, this is something that I bring to the conversation internally, is that soccer isn't for the elite, soccer's for everyone.
And Major League Soccer isn't for the elite major League.
Soccer's for everyone.
And if we can define Pathways and Pro provide opportunities while providing an opportunity for everyone to play the game.
I think that's closer to what we're looking to do.
Mm-hmm.
Now, as far as Julian Hall playing for the New York Red Bulls and Julian Hall being on the field every single time, that's a byproduct of that work because when I was in Germany, I got to experience a period where the DFB, which is their federation, went all in using the lever that is the DFL, which is the Bun Liga to.
Enhance, optimize, increase the level of competitiveness to their national team.
And so when I was at FC Kai Law, which was the first club I ever played at, I got to see that initiative play out in the soccer culture within that
country.
Instead of a young player who was on our roster getting one chance or five chances, they got like 40 chances.
Mm-hmm.
And the reason they did that is because if they could create as many opportunities as possible for those young players to play, create the safety for them to make mistakes and grow, then they saw not only was that going to enhance their product, but it was gonna have a natural upward positive effect on their national team.
Right.
And so in, in our own way, I think.
We're on the precipice of that, Liron: so.
So just a little bit on that, because when you say grow the game, this was something I heard you in other interviews.
So when I grew up, I grew up in Israel, there was basically kind of the rules of the backyard.
You played with everybody, different ages.
It was just complete chaos.
Everybody.
Everybody played soccer, right?
But then only the good ones continued on to play at whatever.
Clubs were in Tel Aviv or Ramad gunna, wherever you were.
But the ones that weren't good enough, they just kept playing in the backyard.
The question is, are we trying to grow where we're adding more players into the pool, or are we trying to give more opportunities to the good players and develop them better?
The ones that do make it above that first level.
So how, how do you, is growth numbers more players or is it more opportunity or better development for the small numbers of players who are.
In that elite area Matt: and, and just one other or, or is it developing more professionals?
Luis: It's all of the above.
And the reason I say that is you can play the sport and enjoy it and not feel each and every time you step onto the field, Hey, I just wanna be a professional.
I think there's, there's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of those kids, and you just want to be able to provide an opportunity for them to play.
And then of course there's gonna be that subset of those players that.
That's all they think about.
They're obsessed about that.
And you want to be able to provide for that as well.
Knowing that when we think about the
product quality that is Major League Soccer, the one area that we really have control over that we can affect is the domestic product.
So it's like you're doing both, which is a huge challenge, but it's a challenge worth undertaking and it's gonna take time.
Sure.
It's something that's gonna be solved overnight.
Liron: So in Germany, when you played you, you brought up that example.
I, and I know, uh, I always look up and mean the Germans, there's always these systems about sometimes there's no scores until a certain age, or they play four V four five.
I mean, they always have these, hold on.
Luis: What'd you say?
That's a really important point, right?
Because I don't think that's widely known in the United States.
Liron: Okay.
I want, so I want to hear it from you.
Luis: Like the fact that there aren't keeping score.
And I think if you say that in some.
Sports circles within parents, they'd be blasphemous.
Liron: Yeah.
At a young age.
They don't keep scores.
I, I know that for a fact.
Right.
Luis: And I had a conversation with the football association, the fa, which is the federation in, in England, and
they only have standings for U 18.
Like that is a wild thought.
For an American parent.
Liron: Well, we love to win is why we came to this country.
Hey, hey, we came win to win.
And, and again, Luis: that is within the fabric of the American mindset, which is it's for better or for worse.
That is us.
Like we don't watch the Olympics cheering on the silver medalists.
Liron: No, no.
Luis: Right.
We want to see great.
We want to be Liron: sick of winning.
Luis: Exactly.
Part of the American sports culture.
And I just think it's really important that we acknowledge that it isn't like this everywhere.
And I'm not saying we have to be that.
But having as many reference points as possible helps with perspective, and I, I'm definitely not saying we're going that direction.
It's just really interesting.
And again, because of your background and, and what you've experienced.
It's not like this everywhere.
Liron: Sure.
But, but Luis, how do you take, so soccer here is considered, let's say it's not a top sport.
I dunno, whatever the numbers are, it's, I don't really know, but in a
way you're trying to almost change a system or try to, it's one thing if, let's say we did it in basketball where the, the American basketball talent pool is the greatest in the world and we can make our own rules.
But it's seems there's a perception where you are already playing catch up.
Playing catch up to the rest of the world, both on the national level and on the league level.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, talent pool and et cetera.
But already you're making changes to very fundamental things, which are maybe the Germans can do it because, well, and Luis: maybe that again, like for better or for worse, that is my mindset is the nice thing about next is it's being funded by Major League Soccer.
Liron: Yeah.
Luis: Right.
And maybe that doesn't get talked about enough and it gets really complicated to talk about that.
So this is why it really should never be the narrative.
The narrative is we're trying to grow the game and we're trying to develop the next generation of professionals and, and I don't say players, I say professionals that will impact the professional game.
Liron: No, I lo But that
connection, SM mls next is important.
That connection you just brought up that that actually is an important point.
Luis: And then that's actually what makes us so unique.
It's not just in soccer.
Like the a a U is not directly connected to the NBA American legion's not connected to Major League baseball.
I mean, I just think of, I mean, those are the ones that come to mind.
You know, what's the other one?
The Flag Football organization.
They're, they're, there's marketing with the NFL, but.
The NFL is not connected to that league.
Um, and so MLS next, what's unique about it is that it's, it's funded.
It is, it is a direct connection to major league soccer and now that actually starts to mirror what's happening around the world.
But it's such a complicated story to tell.
And, and there was, there was something you said that I thought was really important.
You said that the history part, and it takes time.
I was watching a game a couple weeks ago.
It was.
And actually it was just last weekend, it was LAFC versus Club America.
Mm-hmm.
It was the, it was
Bill as the $10 million game.
It was crazy.
Did you guys watch that game?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's unbelievable.
Incredible, right?
It one of the best major league soccer games I've ever watched.
And yeah, you can say there was something on the line and this and that is like.
To me, I would love to see that to be the standard for MLS.
And that's something that I'll continue to push until I'm no longer a part of this game, because I believe we can get there.
And this $10 million game, $10 million game.
But there was something that the commentator said that I think is really, really important.
Club America was established in 1916, LAFC was established in, so they have 102 years of history tradition.
And culture shaping soccer as their advantage, whereas LAFC just started seven years ago and it's amazing to see what they've done.
And having stars like Carlos Vela come through and really launch that franchise has been incredible.
And that's just part of the story of Major League Soccer is
in 30 years.
When you look at the World Cup in 94, we've made massive strides, and yet we still have a long ways to go.
When you look at a storied franchise like Club America, and then you can look across the pond to Europe, whether it's Byron Munich or Manchester United, they've just been around for so long, so better comparison to a, Manny United is like a New York Yankees.
Mm-hmm.
Who's been around absolutely since early 19 hundreds.
Whereas MLS is just so unique in the sense that it feels like it's been around for a while and it's accomplished a lot.
But we're so early innings because we're only three decades in Matt: Luis.
Um, I'm not gonna lead you to the promotion relegation discussion because I thought you were actually about to go there.
Um, instead I want to ask you a question about, wait.
What's Liron: relegation?
I dunno Matt: about, about the funnel in, in America, the size of this country and the number of youth players.
Um, I've often heard that the funnel is a blessing and a curse being it's as large as it is with the geographic footprint we have of this country.
Right.
You think of England, you think
there's 20 cat one teams in their youth system.
The furthest they have to travel is three hours, right?
That's right.
Yeah.
To play any of their teams, it's, it's much easier.
When I played Luis: in Germany, the farthest that we had to go from Southwest Germany was Berlin, and I can't remember, but it wasn't more than a four or five hour train ride.
Yeah.
So maybe in a car it was eight hours and, and I grew up in Arizona, so when we played in our youth league, which was a state league.
I lived way down, whereas I played an hour and a half, like I had to travel an hour and a half every day to go to training.
And then when we played state league games, it was in Phoenix, so it was three and a half to four hours.
And then if we wanted to go to real competitive tournaments, it was Southern California, so it was an eight to 10 hour drive That just felt normal for us.
Matt: Yeah.
I, I don't think we have enough, we don't talk enough about the unique challenges.
Mm-hmm.
It's easy to complain.
Lots of people do it, but the challenge is that you have ML sn next has the other elite leagues have is real when it comes to the number of players, the player
pool coaches, to your point earlier, right?
I mean for ML sn next you have to be a b licensed coaches coach to be a B licensed coach.
It's an arduous, time consuming, you know, process to get there.
Um, Liron: but isn't that another barrier?
Luis: I mean, all these challenges is really what energizes me.
The game's given me so much.
It gave me an opportunity to go to college, got a scholarship, so I got educated.
That changed my life.
It gave me an opportunity to go abroad.
I got to experience the world that changed my life.
My wife and I had three kids here in New Jersey.
It's some of the best years of our life.
I, when I was retiring back in 2020, for me, the mindset was simply, it's time for me to turn around.
And give back to the game that's given me so much.
And I guess my mindset was simply like, how do we make it better for more people?
And even I, I ran into Maxi Morales, right, incredible, maybe, maybe the most important player to have ever gone through New York City fc.
And he's thinking about what's next?
And I was like, maxi, it's time to give back to the game.
Stay.
We need you.
Coach MLS has given you so much now, please.
You, you alone staying in Major League soccer is gonna elevate what we're doing.
Um, but that, that's simply what it is, is there's so many challenges and you could get overwhelmed with how challenging it is because the size of our country is pretty much the continent of Europe.
And you can break down the parts of the country into different regions, and that's the size of the countries in, in, in Europe.
But that's part of the challenge and it's, it's a challenge worth.
Undertaking and try to solve.
And with this idea of like, how do we just make it better?
Make it better for the game, make it better for the families, make it better for the players.
So then when you look at the funnel, when the DA launched, which was after me, so I graduated high school in 2002.
Went to college at the University of Portland and I was hearing
about this thing called the US Development Academy.
So I didn't get to experience it firsthand.
And then it's sort of poetic.
'cause when my career came to an end, it was just after 2020, that's when the DA came to an end.
Hmm.
That's when they dropped it.
And then that's when Major League Soccer took on the challenge of launching a new league called MLS Next.
And you, it's almost like Major League soccer, and I was very fortunate as a player, I got to be part of the leadership of the Players Association.
And so we would sit and we would negotiate CBAs with the owners.
When you're at the table, you really start to understand some of the challenges that they're experiencing, and that's where you try to find those compromises with this idea of progressing the game and until you actually hear some of the challenges that they're experiencing, it's so easy.
From afar to be like, we want more money or we want this, we want that.
Um, but the idea is, is we had to collaborate and find solutions together.
And that's something that we did during COVID to bring the league back to play, but to find a solution together.
And this is where we're at now, is how do we collaborate with our current membership to try to solve some of these big problems.
While also adding new membership, because that's what's also so exciting about the upcoming season 25, 26, is there's people within the space that when we launch this new tier, instead of just cannibalizing what we're doing, let's, we went with the approach of like, Hey, this is what we like to do and if you want to join us, amazing.
If we can do this together, we're gonna serve more families.
We're gonna serve more players.
And then it goes back to why I think we have an advantage over the da.
And this isn't a criticism, this is just, I guess the way that I see it is the DA funneled up to the national.
Liron: Mm-hmm.
Luis: But in each age group, there's only one national team, which means that you are only serving 25 to 30
players.
Tiny.
Liron: Yeah.
Luis: It's tiny.
In a country that has millions of players.
But now the advantage that we have in Major League Soccer is we have 30 clubs at the first team level, at the Major League soccer level.
And now we have this other tier of next pro that's gonna be even more clubs.
And the idea is how do we create all these funnels to get players to those teams?
And so now, instead of the 25, 30 per age group that the national team was serving, we're able to, with our MLS clubs.
Serve those 25 or 30 times 30, and then those still funnel up to the national team.
Yeah.
So now how do we continue to open up that funnel, get more players into it while providing them a good experience, which is a big challenge.
And now we're starting to get into the nitty gritty of some of the challenges that my group has taken on.
How do we make this more affordable?
Well, let's try to reduce travel.
How do we make this
a better experience for the families?
Well, if we have double fixture weekend, every single weekend, like imagine this, go through this scenario, right?
Like within MLS next we have two buckets of clubs.
We have our MLS academies, right?
So your New York Re bulls, your New York fcs, your Phillies, and then you have the other bucket, which is non MLS.
Matt: Mm.
Luis: And there's some fundamental differences, but the challenges are still the same.
They want, their passion is to develop players.
And so an MLS Academy, the coaches, it's a full-time gig.
So from the morning they wake up until the, when they go to bed like that is their job.
Like that's what they're focused on and on.
Non MLS academies, those coaches might have jobs, they might have nine to fives, and then for sure their passion is to be on the field.
So let's take that coach, focus on that coach.
If that coach is a nine to five, and as soon as they get off work, they want to get to the field because they're so excited to coach.
Like where in there are they game planning?
Like when are they able to create IDPs for the
players?
When are they thinking about just the little details that are required to continue to progress this thing forward?
And some do it meaning that they, they don't sleep, but then they go into the weekend and they have a game.
And a lot of these guys have multiple age groups, so that means they're on the field for five to six hours.
And they may have families.
So then they get home, they deal with their family, and then on Sunday they do it again.
Like from a mental health standpoint, like how is that good for that coach?
How is it good for that coach's family?
And then how is it good for the kid?
Like the players, like you want to think you're getting the best from that coach, and yet we're asking them for a fraction of a full-time salary to go and just pour themselves out for these kids.
Yeah.
Matt: It's, it's, it's, so again, Luis: this is like one of those moments that we get to help.
We're gonna minimize double fix your weekends.
Mm-hmm.
Why is because then that coach on Sunday gets to have a life, right?
And like, these are little things that we can activate.
And we can change within our own league, hoping that it has
a massive impact, a downstream impact that then continues to grow Matt: over time.
Can you just not eliminate those double fixture weekends when we go from New York to New Hampshire for one match?
See again now, I love that you brought that up, right?
Luis: Because the Northeast is probably the dream scenario for travel New York to Boston is, is about four hours.
But New York to New Hampshire is now six.
New York to Rochester is six.
And so you want to be pragmatic about it.
If you're gonna leave your market and you go that far, it makes sense to have a double fix your week.
And why?
'cause even that helps reduce costs And, and these are the things that we're thinking on top of how do we develop coaches?
How do we better develop players?
And our group constantly thinks about how do we reduce costs?
And we're not even talking about the people that live in Colorado that have to travel to Texas.
Right.
They have to get on planes.
Like how do we help them reduce that cost while also going up against attention
that we want to be playing against the best.
And if that means that we want to be playing against the best, we have to leave our marketing go somewhere else, like how do we help minimize that?
Um, these are really big challenges and it's challenges that we are constantly evaluating 'cause we want to solve them.
We want to be able to create a competition that optimizes player development.
That develops better professionals.
That gives a great experience, but it doesn't cost an arm andal leg.
And it is tough because when you look at the cost of, let's call it competitive sports, competitive soccer.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Clubs have fees.
Yes.
And the fees usually charge it.
It's, it covers the field costs, which in some places can be really expensive.
It covers the referee costs, it covers the lights, it covers whatever stipend you're paying for the coach.
It doesn't cover travel, and travel is so expensive.
Matt: Yeah.
It's by far the most expensive aspect of the, that experience.
And we're not, and by the way, soccer's not alone.
I mean hockey, baseball.
Basketball with au I mean, it, it's, it's across the board and I think sometimes we get caught up that it's just soccer, but it's far from soccer.
I mean, it's the story across all competitive sports in this country.
I think soccer don't.
Yeah.
And this Luis: is why it's so important that we acknowledge it and we just try to find more, knowing that we can't shrink the country.
Matt: Yeah.
Right, right.
Have, have you talked about, um, I love that you guys are really focused on reducing these barriers because it's what we talk about amongst a soccer parent community all the time, and it's really important.
Do you talk at all about making the league, so the Northeast League for MLS next is maybe 50 16, 16, 17 teams.
Would you divide those leagues in two and maybe have, so the teams play each other three or four times a year instead of twice, and then you have a tournament or two.
To try to reduce some of that travel or the costs end up being, I'm sure you're looking at all these different options and do the cost ends up essentially being the same.
We're looking at all of these options Luis: now.
The northeast is our easiest.
'cause you can drive everywhere.
Yeah.
It the
frontier That's Colorado and Texas like.
We're constantly looking at how can we solve this.
The southeast, we found ways we split up into subdivisions and I think the subdivision implementation has been really effective without getting too.
Much into the details.
It's simply, it's on our mind, right?
Because accessibility is a huge piece of it.
And if the financial part is what is not allowing the game to be accessible, then we have to be serious about finding other ways to help that we, we haven't solved it.
We'll continue to solve it and we'll continue to work on it.
But yeah, the subdivision piece is something that we introduced last year.
We're going even deeper this year for the upcoming year, 25, 26, because we're just thinking about families.
Yeah.
Liron: Yeah.
I think one thing, another thing not to discount is the personal training, the expense of personal trainings that the environment creates.
So I know from my years in soccer here and, and definitely in N-Y-C-F-C, there's a very large disparity
between.
Families on a economic scale, but one of the most debilitating thing is the extra expense of extra training, training outside your clubs.
I mean, it becomes kind of a, an ecosystem of, of endless expense because you gotta be the one that, the fear of missing out.
Right.
And you, you will take all your savings to help your child get to a certain place.
Mm-hmm.
And the stigma of soccer being kind of the free for all cheap sport that it is around the world is not happening here right now.
Luis: No, it's not.
Yeah, that, that's a really tough one.
Right?
Because you never want to discourage a parent If they can do it, hey, you shouldn't do it.
Like if, if that's what you're able to provide for your kid, great.
I think something that we've been really cognizant about that we want to find more solutions to is just this idea of playing all the time, like as much as they can, and it's unstructured, it's just pickup.
Uh, I've been challenging my son
recently to just tell your friend because that was my upbringing, was pickup at 4, 4 30.
I went to the city park.
There were adults there, and we just played.
I would play before I went to my training.
I, if my training was early and I was able to make it back, uh, on the weekends.
I just knew people were playing and, and I'd love to find a way for us to just encourage that, that when there's open spaces, kids are just playing and, and again.
When we think about double fixture weekends, if it's just we're absorbing the family's weekend, those kids are not gonna be able to have that.
But pickup soccer in this country is, it's there.
How do we just continue to encourage it as much as possible?
Because, I mean, I'm, I'll be honest, that was a huge part of my soccer journey as a high schooler and being so close to the border of Mexico.
It was easy to find a game and, and something I said a couple weeks ago when I was in my town and, and some adults were playing and they're like, oh, there's kids.
I was like, yeah, but this is for the next
generation.
Like, I get it, like you, it's cool, but it's not like you're playing in a league.
It's, it's just playing soccer.
Um, we want people to be playing soccer as much as possible.
Well, you brought up, because that's what you start to see in other places around the world.
Liron: Exactly.
'cause you brought up your son and you're trying to encourage that.
When I look at Levy and.
Where he is between school travel to practice the outside practice.
He barely does not get unstructured play.
So he's always playing within his age group, a year up, a year down, whatever.
I'm not impressed by that.
And that's it.
It's always watched by coaches.
It's always watched by parents.
There's never this kind of loose, you know, Lord of the Flies kind of thing.
Which, which, that's one of the wonderful thing about soccer when, when you see it in other go to small countries, Croatia, Uruguay, Iceland.
Why?
Why are, why are we seeing so much talent in such small places?
It's basically everybody's playing soccer all the time.
A lot of it is unstructured and I don't know how, how do you introduce something like that?
Here you see it, for example, in Brooklyn, you see it in the
basketball courts for basketball.
That you see.
It's a, it's a normal thing to see.
I don't see it in soccer that much, Matt: but, but you know what?
I think even in other sports, I think it's, it's, I mean, I just heard an interview the other night with LeBron and Luca, Don and Steve Nash, and they were talking about it and LeBron was saying how we've gone fully away from kids playing multiple sports.
You go, he walk, he drives by courts.
He barely sees kids playing anymore.
Luca, Dante in Slovenia now, it's all organized.
He grew up playing pickup all the time.
Right, so I, I would argue it's probably less so there's less of that going on in other countries where it was only that in the past.
It doesn't mean it's gone away, but I think go back to the time part, it's the same thing.
I mean, if you have team training four nights a week, and to your point it's taking you two hours to get there and back and you have homework and you're expected to be a kid and, and go to school and go get good grades and do all those things, it is just really difficult to find any unstructured time.
And then unfortunately
they've all got phones.
And when it comes to having free time, that's generally where they go.
Luis: Yeah.
I saw this quote the other day, like, I think Jalen Brunson where his, his dad said, there's, you have three choices.
There's school and uh, there's just social life and then there's basketball and, and.
You get to choose two, two to three, and one of them is school.
So Yeah, exactly.
I was like, that's a great quote.
I don't know if you actually said that, but that's a really interesting quote.
Someone asked me the other day about U 13, if we'll ever go younger, and I only bring this up because of something which you just said.
I may get slaughtered for saying this, but I don't see why we'd go younger.
And the reason I say that is.
Like I'm an advocate of not specializing too early.
Yeah.
Liron: No.
Luis: Right.
Like I, what I want to hear, I played baseball up until I was 14 years old.
You cannot tell me that baseball didn't have a positive impact on my ability.
Um, and so do I think that kids should really start to think about
specializing in sport in middle school?
It feels appropriate, but every kid's journey is different.
Mm-hmm.
And so now we have to recognize that Major League soccer, just the impact and the influence that we have.
And, and if we just keep going lower and lower, then are we promoting this idea of specialization too early?
I mean, some experts are gonna, not gonna pretend like I know the answer to that, but I'm just sharing with you that I don't have, um, a massive desire to do that because it's just so important for kids to be kids.
Yeah.
And at at U 13.
Now I get it.
Like now my son and, and maybe your kids are similar.
My son is in a subset where he is obsessed.
Like this is all he thinks about and I see myself in him and that's great, but that doesn't mean he's gonna make it.
I know he's a long ways from making it.
So this is why it's so important.
For even me as a parent that I just like, he just needs to be a kid.
Yeah.
Like if it's gonna work out, it's gonna work out.
Figure out.
How do you direct Liron: that when he looks at you and what you've done?
If that's if, or maybe that's a conflict, like
how, how do you do it as a dad, just right now, as parents, how do you, how do you keep him on track?
On the other hand, with your background and where you came from?
Is you saying, I would love for in deep inside, I'd love for my son to go in my path, or is it actually, you know what, uh, it'd be better if he didn't.
Luis: Well, when he gets home from school, I don't say, Hey, go start training right away when he gets home from school.
Like, go hang out with your friends.
Right?
There's the training's later tonight, and what happens normally on a school night is he comes home from school.
The expectation is that he's, if he has homework, he does it, but then we live in a neighborhood where there's kids everywhere and he goes and he just enjoys it, and then he's home by four 30 because practice is at five 30.
And then when practice is done at seven and I pick him up, we'll go to the field again and we'll play until the lights go out.
I mean, it's just Liron: can't be better.
He Luis: enjoys it.
There's nothing better.
Right?
If he did enjoy it, I wouldn't ask him to do it.
But now you have this mix of he a kid and then he also gets to pursue a passion that he has seemed
to, to develop.
Now my daughter, who's eight has joined in, but okay, here's another example.
I didn't care if my daughter played organized soccer until she really asked.
And it's now seven, eight years old.
And when we go and train, she went and trained us at one time and it's, we train hard.
She's like, oh, I don't want to go.
There wasn't a part of me that was thinking, oh my gosh, she's not gonna make it as a professional.
Like she's eight.
And if she wants to do it, she'll gravitate towards it.
'cause she'll want to get better.
And she sees that there's an opportunity to do that.
And lately she's done it.
Do I expect her to go every single time?
No.
And by the way.
I don't ask my son to go, it's when he asks me, I've committed to say yes.
If he asks me to go and play and he wants to train, I'll say, yes, I'll do everything I can no matter how long my day was or how old I feel, um, I say yes.
And Liron: you made sure that he doesn't become a goalie, right?
That's the best thing I could do for Luis: my son.
That was exactly, I was at this gala the other night, and it wasn't even for my son's club, it was just for another club that invited me and, and I went and I, I talked to some of the parents, a huge New York FC fans, huge Red Bull fans, which is, it's kind of cool just to hear some of their stories.
I was telling my wife this the other night, one of the dads came up to me and said, my son, when he played for N-Y-C-F-C, he's now in college, but when he played for N-Y-C-F-C, he wore 31.
And even though it was for the other color.
Oh wow.
He like modeled himself after you.
I was like, that is so cool here.
That's so cool.
You know, like it's not something you think about when you're playing.
It's not something you think about.
Even afterwards.
But when a parent comes up to you and says that, it's like, wow, that's, that's really cool.
And if anything, again, those are one of those moments that energize me.
Like, how do we just like keep making this better?
Like how do we make MLS next the top youth development center in the world, how do we make Major League Soccer the best league in the world?
It's gonna take time and it's gonna take some really
great people to do it, but it, it's worth it.
I mean, what's unique, Liron: right?
What's unique about the United States in a way is that you, we do have the numbers.
Mm-hmm.
And we do have the families that are willing or can pay for some sort of a system to run, which is unique.
It's not something, it's Luis: interesting you say that because then you have to ask the question, is it the fields or is it the factory?
And it seems like to me there's plenty in the fields.
So what I'm motivated to be a part of is how do we optimize the factory?
Yeah.
To develop those players and.
Right.
These are two different conversations in the sense of how do we grow soccer, and then how do we develop better professionals?
And I do think that we have the responsibility to do both, but those are also two different conversations.
Is.
How do we continue to give the game to as many people as possible, make it fun, make it affordable.
This is why m less go is so important, but then for those
players that this is really what they want.
How do we optimize the factory so that when they become professionals, they're better professionals than the professional I was when they become professionals, right?
They're elevating our national team because part of our goal is isn't just to make major League soccer, the the best league in the world.
It's.
How do the men's national team win a World Cup?
I, and that's what this community needs to be motivated is like, how do we help Liron: Men's National do get the best?
We 17 players in the world right now?
How do we not we got they gotta be here somewhere.
Gotta be someone right here.
We're gonna pause here.
Uh, in the second half, Louise delves into the nuts and bolts of ML Snicks, more technical topics such as reducing travel costs, coach development.
And how data and video are transforming the scouting process.
It's eye and ear opening.
Look into the future.
The next half goes deeper into the future of MLS next and how all these decisions affect our kids directly.
Don't go anywhere.
Part two is coming up in a
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See you, Matt.
Matt: See you next time.