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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: one thing before we
start, Ben, you've watched
the film Venom several times.
Ben: Oh yes.
Jeremy: Is that bit where Riot says
Venom get in the rocket, supposed to be
an evangelian like thing or reference,
or is it just lines up somehow?
EC: I think it lines up.
Jeremy: He very specifically is
like venom, get in the rocket.
Ben: I'm gonna say it
just lines up wonderfully.
If it had been in Venom
two, I would've said it.
It's an intentional reference
EC: Yeah.
Ben: like everything in Venom one
is just like accidental Lightning.
And then Venom two is just Tom Hardy
being like, everyone, let me cook.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Good evening, and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards that no one agreed to.
Tonight we're talking about
the Rel or is it Legacy Sequel
EC: Lega-sequel???
Jeremy: To the movie about scary movies.
It's Scream or is it Scream Five?
Why would they just call it
Scream Like it's the original?
Come on, you guys.
I am your host Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight I have a
panelist, cinephiles Encino Bytes.
First, they're here to challenge
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire Binary.
My co-host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you?
Tonight
Ben: Boy did this franchise.
Luck the fuck out by
casting a Pre Wednesday.
Jenna Ortega,
Jeremy: so the screen franchise is amazing
with like predictive casting of people
that are gonna be stars for like 20 years.
Ben: we also got a pre yellow jacket.
It's uh, Jasmine Savoy Brown.
EC: Yeah.
Was that pre Yellow jackets?
Ben: Yes.
by a few mobs.
Cuz this movie came out in January
and yellow jacket started in November.
And you got Mason Gooding.
Who, if he is not cast as m
mcu, cyclops fucking should be.
EC: Yeah.
Jeremy: We also got a just post
in the Heights melissa Barrera.
And this cinnamon roll of Eno
Bites, our co-host Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
EC: I feel two things,
two distinct things.
One old, two personally attacked,
like the second that they brought
up elevated horror, I'm like, there
was like two eyeballs on the screen
and they were staring right at me.
I am both being attacked by the elevated
horror and the fact that like all of the
teenagers, quote unquote, from Scream,
the first scream are now like parents.
Jeremy: Yep.
And our guest librarian, Batman
podcaster, and our own personal scream.
Monarch tj.
Fantasy.
Tj, how are you today?
TJ: Hello.
I'm good.
I am so glad to be here to talk
about Scream five or I'm gonna
offer up five cream as well uh,
Ben: Yeah, I'm here for it.
TJ: in Scream four, so five cream
Jeremy: Uh, this is directed
by Matt Burton Elliot and Tyler
Gillette, and is written by
James Vanderbilt and Guy Busick.
Based on the characters, some of the
characters a lot of the characters
by Kevin Williamson it's stars.
In no particular order.
Nev Campbell, Courtney Cox, David
Arquette, Melissa Barrera, Jenna Ortega,
Jack Quaid, Mikey Madison, Jasmine
Savoy Brown, Mason Gooding, Sonya Mar,
Marley Shelton, Skeete Ulrich, Heather
Montero, Adam Brody, Jamie Kennedy,
drew Barrymore, and Matthew Lillard.
TJ: That's a stretch.
Would you say they're starring.
EC: Matthew Lillard was nowhere
to, I did not see his face
once.
Ben: Okay.
So some of those later ones are voices
that were added into the four West
cheers segment uh, where they got a whole
bunch of past actors to come to, like
add voices to the crowd cheering four
West because This is the first Scream
movie after the passing of Wes Craven.
Jeremy: yes.
Matthew Lillard specifically is a
voice that as she passes by tells Mikey
Madison's character, Hey, nice house.
This is of course Matthew Willard's
Ben: Matthew Lillard also physically
cameos as the flame thrower
wielding ghost face and Stab eight
EC: No
Ben: a mo a movie I just flat
out want them to release.
Jeremy: Yes.
Because it's, they're like, oh,
it's directed by the knives out guy.
It was like, so, Ryan Johnson
made a scream Last Jedi.
Um,
Ben: Yes, and it's great.
Ghostface has a metal mask
and wields a flamethrower.
And my prediction for the actual plot
of Scream eight is that as reviled as
it is in the franchise now you will
get this next generation by Scream
eight, who's like Stab eight is
actually this unappreciated classic and
I'm gonna revive its like reputation
in the franchise by making it real.
Jeremy: That, that would be great.
Ben: That would be like how people
are like, the prequels are good.
And I'm like, I enjoy memes too, but
you cannot fucking convince me that
Phantom Menas is actually a good movie.
You
EC: yeah, yeah.
yeah.
yeah.
It's, it being good is
different from you liking it.
Like that's, and I understand that
there's a lot of things that I like, I
love, in fact, that are not objectively
quality in terms of the craft, you know?
Jeremy: Yeah.
I,
I rewatched all the prequels with my
daughters recently and the one thing
I will say is attack of the clones
was better than I thought it was,
but, That was like dirt bottom of
the list for me in the first place.
And I think this just really rewatching
it and just flipped attack of the
clones and phantom menace on the bottom.
Because as great as the music in Phantom
Menace is and the one fight scene in
Phantom Menas, it does not make up for
the rest of the armies and armies of
CGI robots against a flat green screen.
Ben: I will say one of the greatest
storytelling decisions I've ever seen
was being like, what if our villain
force was an army of killer robots?
But what if those robots
were both cowardly and dumb?
EC: I'm cute.
Jeremy: yeah, they're cowardly,
TJ: wanted to mention uh, drew
Barrymore also voices the principal
over the announcement when they're
like, oh, you have to go home early.
Ben: I did
TJ: And if we're gonna, if we're gonna
include all these people, you have to
mention my girl, Hayden Panier, who
also voiced cameo and has an image
on the YouTube page, like Easter Egg.
So
EC: wow.
There's a lot of eggs in this
TJ: she is alive.
It says Kirby Reid, survivor of
woodsboro attacks on the YouTube.
Ben: so this movie being, you know, very
explicitly, you know, meta and textually
about passing a torch down, it is also
very much behind the scenes as a new
kind of brain trust uh, takes over as a
new generation for the Scream franchise
in the wake of West Cravens passing.
Jeremy: And I will say when we saw
four, I think you mentioned this, but
like my, prediction for what the like
ending end twist was of four ended up
being what actually happens in five.
Um, Because when I was watching it, I
was like, Hey, wouldn't it be great if
it was actually all these kids that are
like fucking jazzed about stab movies that
were the ones like setting up all of this
to, get, you know, the old generation.
Ben: I'm so glad you brought that up
because when you were like theorizing that
in like our Scream four episode, it was
taking all of my Willow to just fucking
stay like stone face and like, and not
reveal that, like that's the next movie.
EC: Is that why your camera
went off for a minute?
Ben: Yes,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben: Because I would, I was
bra I was breaking, like I
could feel my face breaking.
I'm like, just switch it on.
So fucking switch it.
Don't give any clues.
EC: so two, two things real quick.
Apropos of five Kareem, which is one
of the worst things to say right now.
I just can't,
Ben: that sounds like
a very different movie.
I'm not saying I would also enjoy it.
EC: Was it originally advertised
with the number five as the S
TJ: No, so So you know, number four
had the four as the A and like for
years and years and years, it was
kind of like, oh, well if they make
another, it has to be screen five.
And you know, like the joke was,
oh, they could make the s the five.
And then when they finally announced it,
people were like, oh, are they gonna do
it five creams, like on the internet?
It was kinda like a jokey thing.
But then the cast and crew kind of got in
on it and they made shirts for everyone
behind the scenes that said five cream
EC: That's amazing.
TJ: yeah, so, so unofficially
it's five cream and Savo brown
calls of that too, all the
EC: Good, good,
Ben: of, of
EC: Bless her heart.
Bless her angel heart.
Ben: Before They released it, I was
very much being like, oh, why are
they doing that thing where it's just
where they get rid of the number and
they just give it the original title.
And then every single complaint I
had about it was literally just spat
back in my face during the movie.
TJ: Yeah, it makes sense.
Ben: I'm like, ah, scream,
you met a wonderfulness.
EC: I do love how up its own ass.
These movies are like It's
winking at me and I'm like, okay.
You know, well played.
But the other thing that I'm kind
of sad about is that the killer in
this movie was not Matthew Lillard.
And it was very, very well I
mean, it was, it was reasonably,
telegraphed because obviously the
ghost face in this movie is a hacker
TJ: Hey,
Ben: at, or at
EC: a serial killer.
Ben: or at least is on subreddits,
EC: I'm just
Ben: enough to being a hacker.
EC: I'm just saying the character, serial
killer from hackers and the character
Stu, do we ever see them in the same room?
Ben: That's true.
EC: They're the same person.
TJ: I will say, I literally
thought it was Stu watching this
in the theater the first time.
Cause you know, you're like,
where are they taking it?
And like they start out with the quizzing
at the beginning with Jenna Ortega.
And like she says, oh, it was Billy.
And he's like, no, it also was Stu.
And I'm like, oh my
God, it's gonna be Stu.
He's gonna be pissed that
he's been like neglected.
And Billy got all the fame.
Or maybe it's like a relative.
But no, I was entirely wrong.
EC: What do we think about spectral Billy?
Ben: I love it.
Are you kidding?
I fucking love ghost Billy.
Are you kidding me?
Old Sket.
Cosplaying is young.
Skeet hell, yes.
EC: He did a great job.
I don't know if they like cgi, his face
or whatever, cuz he was looking real good.
Like, I know he, he wasn't absolutely like
spit image of himself back in the day,
but I felt like it was very effective.
Ben: I think if they had tried to actually
give him like the physical proportions
of like 21 year old skeet hole, Rick you
would've gone more uncanny valley also,
if you have him, I think like looking
exactly like how he looked and screamed.
You have a bit of awkward like, hi.
It's like, hi Sam, it's me.
You're ghost dad looking, a visibly
looking a decade younger than you.
So just like psychologically, I think like
EC: yeah, I think that, yeah, that
is definitely, that tracks better.
TJ: It worked for me, but I want to
give credit to like, oh
yeah, he looks great.
And like Scream three, they've really
played with Sydney, seeing things
and it felt out of place then for me.
But I think maybe that laid down
the foundation for this to be
a little bit easier to swallow
because the franchise had already
done something like that before.
And just the fact that it's
skeet Ulrich and we're getting
it back, so like I'll accept it.
EC: I think five cream Was much easier
Ben: I I thought it was just like very,
I just thought it like, yes, skeets back.
I'm in like,
TJ: right.
If this is how I can get
him back, I'll take it
Jeremy: I kind of would've liked a
bit more of it because I feel like we
lost it in the middle of the movie.
And then like he came
back towards the end.
I was like, oh, that's right.
That's a thing.
EC: there were a lot of things
in this movie that were kind
of like we could have cut this.
You guys,
Ben: I'm not sure it
needed to be two hours.
I feel like this could
have been like hour 48.
EC: the whole like five different
fake outs with Wes in the house,
TJ: Ah, that's my favorite part.
Ben: I d i, I love the fake outs.
EC: I, you know, like if it was three,
I would've been like, okay, if it,
but it was like eight or something.
It was a ridiculous number.
Maybe it was just three,
but it felt like eight.
Ben: it made me hungry
for sushi, that scene.
EC: I mean, me too.
I, I was like, wow, we're really, we, we
know exactly what kind of plates he has
and what chopstick he has, and I don't
know if this is PR plot relevant, like,
TJ: Aw.
EC: yeah.
So,
Jeremy: thing he died because it
would be horrible to like be him and
survive and realize that you were
sitting in there like setting out all
your sushi stuff while your mother
was being murdered on the lawn.
EC: yeah.
Ben: think it's a good thing he
dyed because anyone who dyes their
hair blonde like that, probably
like just doesn't need to be alive.
EC: Yeah,
Jeremy: thought it was
EC: a few decades
Ben: That hairstyle was insane.
Jeremy: everybody's hair
Ben: Dy job.
Jeremy: original scream movie.
While that guy's standing there,
EC: I know, right?
Everyone's hair was weird.
Ben: fucking 13 reasons.
What the fuck,
EC: Listen, they, they can do it
like the kids, kids friends of these
days now that this movie is calling
me out for being fucking 40 and
Ben: the most relatable moment of this
movie was Jack Quaid going, hi, gen Z.
TJ: Yes.
EC: yeah.
And that was the thing too,
is I'm like, what Jen is he?
Then what mean?
I
thought,
Ben: he, deaf millennial.
EC: okay, cuz I, that makes me okay.
Ben: Jack Quaid is younger than I am.
He is definitely a millennial.
EC: okay.
I thought I was a millennial.
Like, people call me millennial and
I'm definitely, and I'm like, bitch,
I'm generation Y and I will, I will,
unless you wanna call me an evangelian
millennial, which is apparently a thing.
Or ducktails generation.
That's another good one.
everyone's like, oh, you're a
millennial, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He, the, I don't know, this movie
kind of broke me in a way, and this
is probably one of the most engaging
screen movies that I've watched, so, It
hasn't been like, well, I really liked,
which was the movie one where they were
actually on the movie set with um, Parker
Posey.
That was three.
Okay.
I really liked three
for like ironic reasons.
And this movie was, this movie
felt like it was made with love.
Jeremy: Yeah.
the, the fact that they shoot several
of the scenes that they, they put the
whole finale in the Stu Macher house.
They open with them like on the bench
together, like chatting in the same kind
of setup that we see the original crew.
And the first scream
EC: There was a lot of mirroring.
Jeremy: yeah.
TJ: It's literally a remake.
I love that
Ben: one thing that is very clear
between five and six is that these
are not people who got ahold of an IP
and are now just trying to like ring.
Money out of it shamelessly like they
are taking this like their reigns
of this franchise very seriously and
they have really approached through
both movies, just this franchise
with a lot of love and respect.
EC: Also, apparently Woodsboro
is back on the, on the West coast
now, and apparently now it's
Ben: Woods Woodsboro is two towns over
from Springfield and The Simpsons.
EC: Yeah.
But now it's like, bigger.
And Dewey would never be the sheriff
of Santa Rosa, sheriff of Healdsburg,
maybe Sheriff of Cloverdale, maybe.
But the one thing that I noticed,
not just like the fact that it, was
driving distance from Modesto, which
like them, basing anything in this
movie off of Modesto, California.
I
Ben: laughed just at the
mere mention of Modesto.
EC: okay, like, what else?
What now?
Bakersfield?
But,
Ben: either a producer or
a writer is from Modesto.
I
EC: oh yeah.
So just to give you an idea of about,
about Modesto it's in the Central Valley.
south of Sacramento.
It's like, It's in the no man's land area
of the Sacramento County trifecta there.
And uh, it's just like that picture
of the bowling alley that they have,
it's all like that.
Like, it's just, it's that,
Jeremy: Modesto is the most,
like, it's the town that
feels most, like it sounds of
EC: yeah, modest,
Jeremy: Modesto.
Ben: Normally
EC: So it's not Fresno though.
Fresno's just a trash fire.
Ben: oh yeah.
Normally when I watch these movies, I
definitely try to like, put on a bit
of a detective hat and to really try
to like, you know, put clues together,
try to guess motivations, try to
figure out who could be the killer.
I kind of like really put all that aside
cuz this one I was just laser focused on.
I really wanted Jack
Quaid to be a ghost face.
Like just from the moment he,
he was casted, I'm like, he will
be so much fun as a ghost face
and and
Jeremy: they really, they really do a
good job of hiding the stuff in here.
In a way that makes perfect sense because
like you think, like it's, it's clearly
two people fairly early in the, the thing.
So it's like, well, there's no way
it could be him and somebody else.
Cause he doesn't know any of these
other people he is now from there.
And how, how they tie that back
together is like, oh no fucking,
the internet dude in the, in the,
final act is like, oh yeah,
Ben: not
Jeremy: talk about movies on the internet.
Ben: the stab subreddit,
EC: Okay.
So Reddit, yeah.
Before we get into the recap,
we're, I just wanna get like these
little bitty things out of the way.
So on the subtitles of the movie, the
captions of the movie, when Mindy is
talking about the internet in the movies,
like movie internet forms and stuff
like that, she says four chan and then
the subtitles say, Reddit, like, and I
think it's like D R e A D i t or d r.
Yeah.
So I'm like, so we can say four
chan, but we're not gonna invoke
the name of Reddit on this.
We're just gonna call it Dread It.
So I thought it was like some stab scream
movie universe version of Reddit, and
then they said subreddit, not subreddit.
So I assume that that was
some kind of mistake, but
Jeremy: I, don't know.
There's literally nothing
you can say about four chan
that couldn't be proved true
Ben: It is legally
impossible to defame for Chan
EC: Four chan is kind of one
of those where I'm afraid to
invoke it by name a little bit.
Just I'm, I'm not so much
afraid, I'm hesitant.
Jeremy: appear?
EC: I just don't want that
Ben: like Candy.
Man.
EC: Yeah.
Like that four chan is
a, is actually curse.
It's its own like universe and it's like
the dark it's the hell raiser of universe.
Basically that's what four
Ben: something to the idea
of internet as eldrick being.
EC: Yeah.
The other thing I was gonna say is
that if I were to guess, I would
say that this movie is squarely in
Cloverdale because Cloverdale is cursed.
And it's definitely a place where
like mass murderers would go on
a rampage, although it's actually
a little bit outta nowhere.
TJ: You mentioned Reddit and I just, I
wanted to bring up that Jack Quaid during
filming was on the Scream Reddit and
was like interacting with fans and he
was like kind of getting in character.
So there's a whole account that
was Jack Quaid and it has since
been discovered which one?
Ben: Amazing.
EC: That's awesome.
This is, yeah,
Jeremy: the one last thing I want to bring
up is that I feel like we've talked about
the fact on here and, and it annoys me
in the other movies a little bit, that
uh, Dewey never talks about the fact
that his sister died in the first one.
And her ashes are like explicitly
just hanging out in the middle of
his, trailer living room in this one.
Um,
TJ: Well, when they say something
like, I know, you know how that feels.
I think she says to him, and
it's like, I feel like that's
what they're talking about.
EC: sister was stabbed seven times.
I know.
You know how that feels, and
I'm
Ben: should have, Dewey should
have been like, actually, I
have no idea how that feels.
Come back when your sister's
been crushed by a garage door.
EC: yeah.
Although, I mean, it's funny to
see that like Rose McGowan, Dewey's
sister is, is an urn, you know, like
she's not terribly like ceremoniously
displayed and she's never mentioned.
Whereas fucking
brandy,
Ben: can anything be
harmoniously displayed?
There's no ceremony.
EC: the
well, yes, but there was a very
like, Specifically placed a picture
of guns on the wall or some shit.
Anyway,
I don't know.
Like that's all I remember from, from his
apartment, other than him and his giant TV
Jeremy: got antique
pistols framed on the wall.
They're, they're like
civil war pistols.
EC: So the fucking alter to Randy
in his sister's house was bananas.
Like, I wanna know, did Randy?
No, Randy did die.
He did die.
Ben: Randy died in two.
EC: That's right.
TJ: And we met his sister in three
briefly cuz she delivered the videotape
Ben: And while it hasn't been confirmed
the rumor is that Chad and Mindy's
dad is the cameraman from Scream two.
EC: Oh,
TJ: I hope so.
EC: I
Jeremy: cameraman who's like, I'm
getting the fuck outta here and scream
EC: that's a significant age difference.
Ben: Which would why, which would
explain genetically why they are
smart enough to survive, because
EC: I mean, they barely did.
Ben: but I feel like one thing I noticed
in the rewatch was I feel like they both
like follow the rules in ways that like
harmonically earned them their survival.
EC: Mindy was kind of a monster.
Jeremy: I love that Mindy explicitly is
like, I'm not gonna have sex right now.
I'll die.
They're like, I'm, I'm more
than happy to make out.
But after that, mm.
Ben: Yes, Chad explicitly turns down sex.
So he lives and Mindy is
both gay and turns around.
So per the rules of four, she lives
EC: Yeah, the Chad, ch Chad as a
character is incredibly intriguing
to me because he is aptly named.
And I, I don't know how I feel
about especially, you know,
rest in Peace West Craven.
I do understand.
I don't know how I feel about the,
like the Chad Virgin Virgin Dichotomy
that is obviously here and the
virgin of this duo being called West.
it's a bit
unfortunate.
Jeremy: I feel like they named him
Wes, just so that he would be the one
that died before, like the party so
that they could all toast Wes, like,
Ben: exactly it.
No, that, that is what, 100% it.
Um,
Jeremy: to me, the finest piece of
cinema that has ever been produced in
the horror genre is Mindy like watching
the actor playing her uncle, watching
Jamie Lee Curtis and scream, and having
the, like, realization that the same
thing was happening to her just before it
happened, and then moving outta the way,
Ben: Incredible.
One of my favorite scenes in the
EC: that, that hurt my brain.
It was like looking into
like double mirrors.
It.
I think that was one of the
things about this movie that
just got me where I'm like,
Jeremy: Christopher Nolan could never
EC: yeah, I know like Christopher
Nolan could never like this, cuz
this is, this is not literal like
Ben: Nolan wishes he could
direct a scream movie.
EC: but she was looking at her uncle,
but a guy playing her uncle who's talking
to Jamie Lee Curtis in a movie that is
being watched in an, and it's a reference
to the original movie where the guy
who's plays her uncle is named Jamie.
And
Jeremy: it's,
it's
Ben: I mean, there's even a line
in the movie where Richie goes,
it sounds a lot like Halloween.
EC: yeah, God
TJ: mentioned queerness in the
movie, obviously through Mindy, but
I wanted to bring up the fact that
Ben: Andy Mindy's the
best character in the
TJ: and her friend, God, what was Amber?
Her friend Amber, they were supposed
to be dating, and in the original
script they were girlfriends.
And like even in the casting call, it
was like, we're casting two lesbians.
And then when they made the film,
it really seemed, and I I read the
original script, they literally just
like cut out like three different lines
where they reference each other as
girlfriends and like a peck on the lips.
Like everything else is the same.
And it's like they still really
read as they're dating to me
Jeremy: Yeah.
EC: Don't they almost
Ben: does
Jeremy: Amber very much reads
as, at least regarding like this
character as as her girlfriend.
She's very like protective in a way.
Like as much as I'm usually the like,
yes, just make them lesbians person
I'm a really glad they're not dating
in this story because I have seen
way too many horror movies recently,
especially involving lesbians where
one of them turns out to be evil
and tries to kill the other one.
Like for some reason
it's just from a trope.
I don't know what happened.
TJ: I'm like, give me all the lesbians.
Ben: it would've been very much like
the bisexual trope and just added
another element of like what the
fuckery too, the, her relationship
with ri, with like Richie.
TJ: My head Canon
is maybe they were dating but
they weren't out to the sister.
So they're like, you know,
not really telling her.
So it doesn't have to
Ben: okay, but either way you still
have Richie actually being with the
TJ: Yes.
Yeah, that sucks.
That was real bad.
Ben: so to me it's like that it's
amber and that she's the killer,
just would make any queerness.
Just like such a fucking mind field that
like I really don't mind them not doing
Jeremy: Be a real bummer.
TJ: I think the entire friend
group is gay because you can't just
have two of them dating possibly.
Plus Mindy's a lesbian.
One of them has dyed blonde hair.
I'm like, all right, come on.
Everyone
EC: they, they're all queer like
they're on the queer spectrum for sure.
TJ: Yeah.
Ben: This was a really interesting
one to watch, like host watching six.
Cuz the first time I watched this
it was, was all like, okay, here we
have this new group of characters.
It is that like new generation and like
they all felt very like expendable and I
didn't have much of an attachment to them.
And then after Scream six, it's
very much like, oh, y'all are the
new like Sydnee, Gale and Dewey.
Like, y'all are it.
Y'all really are the new main characters.
I'm attached to you now.
So it was really interesting going
back and watching five now having real
emotional attachment to those surviving
characters that go on to be in six.
EC: Well, I haven't seen six, I have
no jack shit about six, other than the
fact that they put the numbers in the
m and it's in the city or something.
I don't know.
It's
Ben: Yes.
It's in New York.
It's in New York and it's great because
I gotta admit, this being our third
movie at out of five in Woodsboro I'm
getting a little sick of Woodsboro.
EC: No, it's, I mean we don't
need it to be woodsboro.
we also don't need it to
be only two ghost faces.
But then, you know, this
movie did it anyway.
But um, there's two other things
I wanted to bring up before that,
that don't have anything to do with
progressive politics or anything.
They're just funny to me.
One,
When the fuck did they reboot flat liners?
Mindy says that they rebooted Flatliners.
TJ: Oh, that was a few years ago.
Jeremy: 2017.
TJ: Yeah.
Ben: Yes,
TJ: Yeah, I remember
Ben: Sutherland, and Elliot.
Page
TJ: That's what I thought.
EC: what,
Jeremy: Diego Luna.
It must have done really well.
EC: Yeah, obviously.
Cause it's so memorable.
Jeremy: What was your other point?
Cause
I have
one more too.
EC: oh yeah.
Um, My other point was that like,
now I know that Luke Wilson playing
Billy Loomis was a joke, but now that
things are getting like serious and
Billy Loomis is like the ghost dad.
Ben: It would've been great if like
she hadn't seen a picture of like
there were no pictures of Billy Loomis.
So instead, like in
her hallucination, he's
TJ: Yeah.
EC: that would've been fucking great too.
And they had that picture of Billy
Loomis on this screen and like
there's some documentary that
they're watching or whatever, like
behind the real story or whatever.
And like Ske Rick is super
smoking in the picture.
Like he's.
And he's like giving the camera,
I know he is like giving the
camera the bedroom eyes and I'm
Ben: He's making love to that camera.
EC: this is the only time that an actor
playing an actual like killer has been
a downgrade from the actual killer.
TJ: Mm,
EC: I just thought that
that was interesting
Ben: Like
EC: yeah,
Ben: normally it's like, oh,
here's a sch slub, but we're
gonna get fucking what's his face?
High school musical to play him.
Jeremy: Mm.
Ben: Someone
EC: yeah.
TJ: Yeah,
Jeremy: Zack High School musical.
TJ: I wanted to go what Ben was
saying earlier, that I, I think this
movie is going to age very well.
The first time around watching it,
like every time it was focused on
the new characters, I was like,
yeah, but like, where's Sydnee?
Like, I just wanna go back to Dewey.
Like, I don't care about this character.
But now the more time we spend with
these new characters, like going back to
five, I think is gonna, like, it's just
gonna age very well and get even better.
Ben: like slight spoilers.
Chad will become the Jimbo.
You didn't know this franchise needed.
EC: Are his biceps still
named Hobbs and Shaw?
Ben: Oh my God, yes, yes.
But that fast and Furious
reference fucking sent me
EC: Oh my God.
Jeremy: There's two references in this.
One is the Fast and Furious,
the Hobbs and Shaw reference,
which I was like, I love it.
Perfect.
The second one is the fact that Tara,
when she's in the, I think it's in the
hospital, is watching Dawson's Creek not
just Dawson's Creek, but watching
an episode of Dawson's Creek
that's about horror movies.
It's so deep because that show, like
what's on their features both Scott
Foley and Joshua Jackson, who have both
been in Scream and Dawson's Creek is
created by Kevin Williamson and like
the, the fact that all of that on top
of like, that it is also that show is
meta about film and everything anyway,
and that they like put this in there.
I have was like, oh my God, this,
this moment here is like, that's like
the double mirror effect of like,
EC: I don't wanna wait
Jeremy: don't know how deep that goes
EC: I don't wanna wait for,
Jeremy: for our
EC: or,
Yeah,
Ben: it's kind of crazy like Mikey
Madison plays Amber in this movie.
The other big movie I know her from
is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,
and it's kind of crazy that she
gets set on fire in both those
Jeremy: Mm,
Ben: right?
EC: guess so.
I mean, some actors have a thing
that they do and good for them.
TJ: Jeremy, you might have,
I don't know who Scott
Foley is, so maybe you said this, but
um, in that clip they showed of Dawson's
Creek, Sydney's brother's actor is in it.
So like she's watching something
with Sydney's brother on in that
Ben: my God.
They used the clip of,
they used Scott Foley.
Scott Foley, a k a,
the villain from Scream
TJ: Okay.
See, I didn't know his name in real life.
Yes.
So he has actually owned that clip.
Okay.
In my mind I'm like, okay.
So I guess her brother did some
like acting here and there because
he was in Hollywood and that's
him in the Scream Universe.
EC: All me, all media is just,
it is just a string of memes and
references in various sequences.
Ben: I wish The one thing that
they introduced in this movie
that I wish had played a bigger
role, is that creepy dude's.
Bright Purple Mustang.
EC: that plays red right hand.
Ben: Fucking
TJ: That's nephew and I feel
like they did nothing with that.
It was like
pointless.
Jeremy: Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yes,
EC: to Stu.
Jeremy: yes.
One last thing I do wanna point out,
and maybe this is progressive, I don't
know, but having the doofy hunky cop
be Chester Tam is pretty amazing.
You know, it's not often that
you get Doy hunky cop as a,
as a Chinese American actor.
So, you know, this guy also Chester
Tam, built like a damn truck.
It's a big dude like weird
that nobody comments on how
handsome he is in this movie.
Ben: it was, it was hard to get him
and Sam Barrera in frame together,
EC: yeah.
Ben: Barrera,
EC: yeah.
Ben: like you could tell they literally
struggled to like, just teach that.
EC: So yeah
Jeremy: uh,
Ben, you doing the recap,
so you gotta get to it
Ben: Yes.
Recap.
It is 25 years since the original killing
spree of Billy Loomis and Stu Macher
and still in the town of Woodsboro
High school student, Tara Carpenter.
We, we get older every day
EC: Tara Carpenter.
You say
Ben: a a reference.
Yeah.
How about that?
Sam
Jeremy: reference in scream.
EC: cod
Ben: Is that home when she gets a call?
You know that classic ghostface killer
call when we get ourselves a classic
ghostface killing opening except.
She survives cuz she's Jenna Ortega gun.
They ain't killing her off that quickly.
EC: She likes elevated horror, so she has
Ben: oh.
Yes.
That's important.
Yes.
She, she's big into our meta,
into our next generation of a 24.
Shit.
She likes that hereditary vi.
We, we, we stand an elevated horror queen,
EC: love you.
Say how you say the
bitch makes me so happy,
Ben: the village she may love
har elevated horror, but guess
what she is, as they say.
Meta textual, what do they call it here?
Meta Meta slasher who done it Full stop.
Which
TJ: wearing the colors
that Drew Barrymore wore
in the
original.
Ben: That's amazing.
Ah, I love it.
EC: And she's making
Ben: I
EC: the whole thing.
TJ: Yeah.
Ben: the best character, like meta textual
slasher who done it, just fucking nailed
what this genre is and really why this
series is able to be so successful.
Installment after installment who the,
who done it always keeps it fresh.
I've talked to him a lot about why I love
the who done it in this series Anyway, in
the bustling with Metropolis and Modesto
Tara's older sister Sam Carpenter is
working at the combination bowling alley
slash hospital slash town hall, I assume.
EC: Yeah, that's true.
Yes.
Ben: When she's informed by Wes
Hicks, the inexplicably blonde
friend of Tara about the attack.
She, her and her boyfriend uh, Richie
Kirsch played by Jack Qua, who is
just fucking wonderful in this movie.
Go and visit Tara at the hospital
where we, where her and Sam meet
Tara's friend group, Wes, Amber,
twins Chad and Mindy and l Mackenzie.
I love this friend's group because
never in a scream movie has a friend
group and more just at each other's
throats at the drop of a hat.
They are, they are ready to assume
any one of them is the killer.
Like this friend group has zero trust.
EC: Also, I have to mention that these
teens would rather survive than fuck,
and I think that that's true progress.
Ben: Well, you know, if you look
at the rates of teenage sex and the
chart going down, very true to Gen Z.
EC: Bless.
Jeremy: They,
TJ: you.
Ghost phase.
Jeremy: I am convinced they're friends
with the uh, or like, somebody's sister is
part of the body's bodies, bodies group.
EC: Yes,
Ben: Oh man, I could, I could very
easily see bar's, bodies', bodies and
scream taking place in the same universe.
Anyway, there is also lives ex
creepy hookup, summer hookup who
hits on teen underage teenagers.
Ben, who is Stu's nephew, we will
learn and he, after getting into a
fight with Chad is killed by ghost
face in just a really satisfying, like,
low key kill, like just sneak up and
then just a boop knife in the neck.
EC: and the red right hand plays, which.
Ben: Yeah, it's a good musical moment.
Meanwhile, like after like hallucinating
fucking after hallucinating fucking ghost
Billy in a, in the fucking hospital Sam
reveals to Tara the read that she's the
reason that her father left and their
family broke up, and after learning that
she was Billy's illegitimate daughter.
TJ: How did we feel about that?
I feel like we haven't talked about
Ben: yes.
This revealed that.
Yeah.
EC: I, I, I felt that it was better
than the random brother that Sydnee had.
Like, it was def definitely
better than the weird shit and
the weird twists in two and three.
Like I was, I, like, I didn't
give a shit about any of that.
And with her, I did, I mean, I kind of
like this legacy, the legacy sequel of
her being sort of also having a little
bit of that that, that haunting her.
But that is a, sort of
comes to her aid later.
And I just love, like,
who doesn't want a ghost?
Dad Qui Rick being like, now you gotta
Ben: funny would it have been though
if she was Stu's Legitimate daughter
and we got Ghost Matthew Lillard.
EC: I would've been, I, I am, I'm
kind of personally offended that
the creep dude is related to Stu.
Like I feel like it should
have been the other way around.
Like, I feel like it should have God.
Ben: again, Stu was a pretty creepy dude.
EC: Still was, but he's Matthew Lillard
though, so he's automatically lovable.
Like that's the thing about
Matthew Lillard, he is like,
Ben: that's
TJ: Maybe that'll be the
twist in the third one.
In in a seven.
We'll find out.
Her mom lied and really
she slept with Stu.
EC: okay, she just, she just wants
Billy to be her dad cuz he is hot.
Like that's it.
Like Billy said, even her dad,
he's just like some weird, like,
Ben: The reveal will be that like,
oh, then the mom went to the college
and slept with Timothy Elephant.
So the killer from
Scream to is Sarah's dad.
They're both ghost face daughters.
And then we can bring Timothy Elephant
back as, as Terra's Ghost dad, and they
can each have their own ghost face.
EC: I want,
Jeremy: justified as my ghost dad.
EC: God, I want, Mosquito Rick Goad
to be a recurring character so bad.
And then Sue also like Matthew
Lillard goad like, we need to,
Jeremy: Could you, but could you
imagine what being haunted by
Matthew Lillard would be like?
It'd be just like making a lot
of faces and doing a lot of
noises and be like, ah, did like
EC: that would be awesome.
Are you kidding me?
I'd be like, man, I'm not
afraid of death no more.
TJ: I still think if, if they're gonna,
Jeremy: is just, has a head,
just has a TV for a head.
Cuz you know
TJ: if five and six
were retellings of like one and
two, I think seven should really
utilize the voice changer in some way
and bring back everyone.
Ben: I, I really hope three
is like they're now filming
the Scream streaming series.
EC: I'm now just obsessed with the
image of this like fucking anime
dead Stu with a TV for a head.
But it's like Matthew Lord's face on the
TV and it's like fucking Max Headroom.
But he's also serial killer from hackers.
It's kind of feel like, God, it's
Ben: So anyway.
Yes.
EC: just like this.
It's every movie.
Ben: So anyway Tara is so distraught
to learn the truth and the secret Sam,
captain, why Sam hadn't talked to her
in five years, that she orders her
out and doesn't wanna see her anymore.
Richie, despite professing to have
never even heard of the Stab movies
sure seems to have some bright ideas
about pulling in veterans to help them.
So Sam and Richie go to visit Dewey,
who has unfortunately uh, divorced
from Gail and is living in a trailer,
being drunk and watching Gail on
the news and just be in like, you
know, a real act three O B one mentor
EC: Oh my.
He is very sad.
Ben: Yeah.
Def flags for days.
Unfortunately
EC: Yeah.
TJ: never found him hotter.
EC: I mean, no, he's
absolutely
Ben: out.
Yeah, he is.
That he is daddy.
He is.
Doy is so daddy in this movie.
EC: call him shitty Sam
Elliot, which I feel like
is is low hanging fruit for starters, cuz
they're like, okay, it's like a cowboy.
What's the one cowboy actor that we
can name off of the top of our head?
Sam Elliot.
And also he's not shitty, he's just sad.
Dewey gained pathos through
the series like that.
He is, his story I think is one
of the more important stories
to the stream scream franchise.
Sid, Sid kind of plateaus it badass.
Like, she's just sort
of like I am a survivor.
Cor, Courtney Cox, Gail Withers
also plateaued a badass, successful.
And Dewey is just like, did not
cut it for Gail because honestly
like Dewey would've had to either.
Become a fucking, I don't
know, like a model or something
which you could have done.
I
Ben: Or just being able to
deal with living in New York.
EC: yeah,
TJ: Yeah.
It sounds like it was
Ben: have just, he could have just
been a house husband in New York and
he just couldn't deal with the city.
EC: I think he was, I
think he just felt useless.
TJ: Yeah.
Ben: So,
EC: you know, and I'm like, wow,
I can really see, like, I don't
need, I don't need any explanation
of how this relationship ended,
Ben: like, we've talked about
it, how Sydney's character act
really kind of ended at three.
Like they really wrapped up Sydney's
character and you know, we talked
about how Sydney's character doesn't
really advance in four and I mean, it
really doesn't advance here in five
where it's like, this is almost where
she's almost like a ghostface killing
agent, where like she knows her too.
Like I love the scene where
her and Gail just instantly
know that Amber is a killer.
Like they just know it's
to travel right away.
But so really like, yeah, so
really Sydney's character art has
really already come to a Stop.
Dewey's character arc was really, and
development was really still very much
going strong into this fifth movie.
TJ: Yeah.
that's a great point.
And I totally see what you mean about
Sydnee and Gail kind of plateauing like,
like I love seeing them in that moment
of like, oh yeah, she's definitely
the killer and it's entertaining.
But it's like when you've reached that
status of being so, you know, like all
knowing in the franchise, like, what
can you really offer us at this point?
Besides that like fan service.
Ben: as weird as it is to have in Scream
again, to go back to talk a little bit
about Scream six, as weird as maybe.
Sydnee was still really necessary to
be in this one, to really help pass the
torch to that new, this new generation.
But as, where's this?
To have a scream movie without
Sydnee Prescott in Scream
six she really wasn't needed.
Like the movie really loses
nothing by not having sydnee.
Jeremy: Yeah, so I hadn't
seen five when six came out.
And I know there was a lot of like
people on the internet being like, you
can't have it without sydnee, but like
watching five now, it's so clear she's
not supposed to be in six because like,
there's just this moment where Sam
like goes over to her and Gail sitting
on the front of the ambulance and is
like, Hey guys, thanks for everything.
Like you guys are gonna go
your way and I'm gonna go mine.
But we'll always remember each other like,
Ben: Okay.
Can we talk about how also
when they're sitting on the, when
they're sitting at the back of that
ambulance, Gail's been fucking shot.
EC: Everyone's
TJ: fine.
Ben: chilling?
Why is she just sitting there
being like, I'm just chilling?
Like she has been shot in the gut.
TJ: right.
Yeah.
Their plot, everyone's plot.
Armor is crazy.
EC: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because like Amber gets shot, I mean,
as far as we know, Amber gets shot to
shit by Dewey and then is back, who
was just like, just kicking it later,
Jeremy: Well, no, Amber.
Amber gets shot in her body armor, like,
I mean, in one that would hurt like hell.
But there's a moment where like when
Dewey goes back to get her, like he
leans in and you can see that like the
bullets are stopped against body armor.
EC: Oh, I didn't, I didn't catch
Jeremy: yeah, it's just
before he gets stabbed.
So I was like, oh, oh no, they're prepped.
Ben: Chad has the highest fucking HP
you've ever seen in this franchise.
Chad is
Pokemon joke,
incoming Pokemon joke.
Chad is the BSY of the Scream
TJ: Oh my God,
EC: He is though, cause Bliss.
He's totally a him
Jeremy: Chad bleeds at
Evil Dead two levels.
Like
he is blood coming
gushing out of his thigh.
But he is like, no, I'm, I'm, I'm here.
TJ: I'm just
EC: Richie also survives a
gunshot to the leg pretty well.
But you know,
TJ: I think these new movies are
really establishing that characters
can live through things that they
could not live through before,
but like,
Ben: Characters absolutely can survive.
What would've been Insta Kills.
TJ: like, I'm stuck on this
idea of like Sydnee and
Gail being on a level where like,
like if what happened to Dewey in this
movie happened to Gail or Sydnee, I
feel like they would've lived, even
if they went through the same exact
thing because they, they're, they're
on a pedestal that we cannot touch.
So like, I just find it
fascinating that Dewey
Ben: God Dewey's death though.
The, the two knives going up.
EC: yeah.
That was rough.
Ben: I remember the first time I watched
it and tj, you were there the first
time I watched it, like I was horrified.
Like I was almost like screaming
at the screen like, no, no, no.
Like, it was horrible.
But it was also definitely the right
call that was able to elicit such
strong emotion for me and feel earned
and feel respectful to the character.
TJ: Well, and to get Sydnee back,
like that was the only thing that
could have got her to come back.
I think.
So it, it was necessary, sadly.
EC: Yeah, no,
I, you saw my, my note.
I was, I was live blogging
on the uh, on the, our chat.
And I said, fuck this movie.
I don't mean that cause I
actually like this movie.
Ben: my big hope, if they do bring Sydney
in back into the franchise, my hope
is that they'll reveal that there was
an entirely other ghost face situation
that Sydnee dealt with, like off screen.
Where she's just coming to just like, yep.
My yoga instructor was a ghost face.
I dealt with it.
Don't worry.
EC: it was like that.
That opens it up for like, you
know, screams the side stories.
TJ: See, I want that to be the whole
Ben: faces go, there's the ghost
faces still coming after Sydnee,
and now there's the ghost faces
coming after like Sam and Tara
EC: Yeah.
So where were we
TJ: I think that could be great.
Ben: recap.
Oh man.
So they asked Dowey for help and he is
like, no, but then Dewey feels guilty.
So he is like, yeah, cuz you
know, you gotta refuse that.
Call Hero's Journey motherfucker.
They go to the, like Martha Meek's home,
Randy's sister, where Mindy and Chad,
the Wonder twins of Scream are here.
TJ: He Don't skip my girl.
Ben: Oh yes, we get the, we get,
yes, we get the call between Cindy
and Dewey with the amazing line.
I'm Cindy fucking Frescott.
Of course I have a gun.
TJ: And she's, she has a wedding ring.
She's married to someone named Mark,
who is probably the cop from Scream
three.
Ben: definitely the detective from three,
A character.
A character who has survived this long
by never coming back to the series.
TJ: worked so far.
The scene is great just seeing them
interact, but like, it makes me
sad though, because someone pointed
out that like, she's surprised
when she answers the phone.
So obviously they haven't
really kept in touch.
So it's just, it makes me even
more sad than I'm like, oh, they
Ben: I I can't wait till they start
like intro when it's like, oh, when
it's like they introduce like Cindy's
teenage daughter into the franchise.
TJ: Scream 10.
Ben: Actually that could be a, if like
a target starts like targeting like
Cindy, you know, Cindy's daughter's
in high school and Cindy's the mom.
That could be a real way to
bring Cindy into the franchise
EC: I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn
into dust when that happens.
Like the second that they show Cindy's
teenage daughter, that's her age.
I'm gonna be like the curse and
then I will become a skeleton.
Ben: Dewey give some rules when the
trailer Dewey also fucking hangs
Richie as the killer, like immediately,
which Richie points out
later and it's great.
But then, you know, Mindy takes so
truly inheriting her uncle's role in the
series except she gets to kiss girls.
She explains the rules of the rel the,
EC: Is that a thing?
Is that like a thing people
TJ: at the, when this movie came
out, this was like the first major
thing that I had seen use that term,
and I had never heard of it before,
EC: Yeah.
TJ: but now it's kind
of a thing after that,
EC: Rel and Legacy Sequel I have
Ben: they were, I think they were trying
to come up with a term for, like a
phenomenon that was clearly going on,
but didn't really have a term for it.
TJ: I think so.
EC: Well, good on this movie
for making some more memes.
Ben: Yeah.
So they pretty much figure out that the
pattern of the killings is that all the
people being killed are related to, or in
some way related to the original scream.
Wes is scared, but then they
tell him that, Wes, that he
won't be targeted because nobody
gives a shit about Scream four.
TJ: Okay, this bothers me because it
doesn't make sense and like I'm trying to
jump through hoops cuz they didn't make
Scream four into a stab movie and the only
one that his mom could have been in is
the most recent one that everyone hates.
So it's like, okay, but
it's not,
Ben: it couldn't have been
Scream seven, that there couldn't
have been like stab seven?
TJ: I feel like they said
what the plot was cause
Ben: Oh, we did get, we did get, I, I
didn't account how exactly, cuz we did
get like step three is three and then we
did get like four, five, and six and like
TJ: So I think maybe seven was
like already made during four.
But cuz I did, I, I, I fell down a
well and did research at one point.
But I'm like, the only way this makes
sense is if they did, they rebooted,
but used aspects that really happened
in real life during the events of four.
So like, his mom is in the reboot.
I don't know, try to make it make sense.
Ben: Right.
Maybe they just used lemon squares.
EC: I do like that Wes is the
nerd and he gets the shower scene.
TJ: Oh yeah,
EC: we didn't
TJ: I I was there for that.
EC: Yeah, we didn't get any
of his butt, which I'm like,
TJ: It was tasteful.
EC: I guess, yeah.
I mean, technically he's
supposed to be a teenager, but,
TJ: He is my age
EC: I
mean,
TJ: in real life.
Jeremy: I mean that's,
that's every teen and scream.
Ben: yes.
EC: Okay.
Anyway.
Ben: But despite the assurance
that nobody cares about, scream for
Wes and his mother, sheriff Judy.
Hi Judy Lemon Squares Hicks, RT targeted,
we get a whole long ordering sushi like
sequence and getting set up her sushi.
EC: is that sequence, is
that sushi sequence so long
because it's a red herring?
TJ: But
Ben: God
Damn it, Emily.
TJ: can we linger on
this sequence cuz like
Ben: Ah,
EC: Well, the movie
Ben: over, done.
Podcast over.
EC: I'll, I'll continue the recap.
So they have, they don't have sushi.
Ben: Have
sushi.
Um, they
TJ: I'm so sad about this
Ben: They, but I will say Judy,
hi, sheriff Higgs does get a belly
full of knife, a full knife dinner,
EC: I'm a fan of knives and scary movies.
Which one's your favorite?
Ben: knives out, more like knives in Judy.
And Wes gets a very slow extended
knife through the neck in just an
absolutely brutal kill sequence.
Jeremy: Judy gets repeatedly stabbed
on her, like in the grass, in her
front yard, in broad daylight.
She is
just like, is relish murdering her?
EC: This is why it's important.
I mean, you, you have to keep
things in these things in mind if
you're gonna have a deep front yard.
So, you know,
Ben: yeah.
EC: simply safe, not just for the house.
TJ: I think this part's my
favorite part of the whole movie.
Ben: yes, because after this Gail
comes back Gail is about to introduce
herself as Gail Weathers, but then
sees Dewey and instinctively introduces
ourselves as Gail Riley and my heart
fucking shatters into a thousand pieces.
TJ: That whole
Ben: a,
uh, we get just a wonderful human
wrenching scene between Dewey and Gail,
and then Sam's like, wait a minute why are
the cops who are supposed to be guarding
my sister here and not guarding my sister?
And everyone rushes back and Dewey
and Sam rush back to the hospital.
And also Richie is there.
Richie does not help because he
is, because he is the killer,
but also because he is useless.
EC: And he's just watching
Netflix the whole time.
TJ: Well, and we're talking about
meta like the relationship between
David Arquette and Courtney Cox
in real life, how it mirrors Dewey
and Gail is so fun, like tragic
and funny to me.
EC: Is he?
I don't know this, this bit of lore.
TJ: Cause they like, you know,
they got together around the
same time and then they were
kind of struggling through four and then
they really got divorced in real life and
EC: oh, I didn't know
TJ: yeah.
So there's a lot of history even between
them as people like filming that scene.
I'm like, wow, that, that took
a lot of guts to have that real
history and be acting that.
Jeremy: And then he lost all
of them, the guts that is.
Ben: He did Also, if you're wondering
if this movie was a success yes.
It extremely was.
It made almost 140 million
of a 24 million budget.
EC: And well rated, I saw the, the
ratings on a litter box and yeah, I
was, it was pretty positive compared to
like a lot of the other screen movies, I
should say this, the squeak, the squeak.
Ben: yes.
Like this mo this franchise is doing good.
And then again, the next one, they
made a 33 million budget and made
almost 170 million at the box office.
So these movies are doing good
and Scream seven has already been
announced to being fast tracked.
So we could have Scream seven,
I think like by next year.
EC: Svin?
TJ: Well, apparently the directors
are making some monster movie and it
has Melissa Barrera in it, so I don't
know if that's like
Ben: it.
TJ: but I feel like I need,
they need time to get it right.
I think.
Jeremy: so they're making the Universal
Pictures Monster movie, but they're also
at least Burelli Open is making a remake
of Escape from New York, supposedly,
which again, I don't know that we
need that, but it could be awesome.
So
we'll see.
Ben: In this movie, though, at the
hospital attacked by Ghost Face Tara, who
trying to get away despite being just.
So stabbed like everywhere and just
like in agonizing pain, like with
every movement, it's horrible to see.
Um, Dewey and Sam arrived to save the day
and they almost escape, but Dewey's like,
no, I've been in too many of these movies.
I gotta shoot it in the head.
But is then distracted by tragic,
romantic phone call from Gail
and just, ugh, the aforementioned
gutting as Jeremy alluded to,
TJ: The fact that he dies looking at her
face and she's never gonna know is so
Ben: tears tears down my eyes,
EC: It's, I, I was transported.
I was transported.
There was some whiplash cuz I was like,
oh yeah, I'm still in a scream movie.
Like, cuz then, the pacing of it,
they were like, we can't really mourn.
I mean, they did mourn the shit out
of Dewey, it's the most mourning
I've ever seen in a screen movie.
Ben: They know they had to treat this
as like the most important death that
has ever happened in the franchise.
EC: Yeah.
they still moved on from that pretty
quickly, like comparatively, because
you know, it's a fast-paced movie and
they had to do that and that's fine,
but I
Ben: still active killers
on the loose, so they
still do have to deal with that.
EC: yeah, yeah, but like the
death of Dewey, I was still
like, Ooh, what'd you say?
And like, I was still kind
of in shock from that.
TJ: Yeah, the slow-mo shot of
Gail, just like breaking down
and the music, the part gets me.
EC: Yeah.
Jeremy: The fact that the killer says uh,
it's an honor after killing him is uh,
Ben: Which is a real, which
is also a really great hint
as to the motivation of the
TJ: Mm,
Ben: being a big fan, like a fanatic.
I mean, the line of the movie that
really just sums up so much of the
themes of what they're doing with
Ghostface was, and fucking Jack Quaid
just nails the line is when Richie
goes like, how can fandom be toxic?
It's about love.
EC: His performance was fantastic.
Like, I've not seen like
a ghost face killer reveal
character, be that fantastic.
I mean, the, what's her nuts throwing
herself into the glass table pretty close.
But his whole, like, performance was fan,
like, it was, a new level for a screen
movie, which I thought was really cool.
Jeremy: Both the reveals I thought
came together really well on this
cause
Ben: I love the suddenness
of it, of, of the Amber
EC: Oh, the Amber reveal
when she like fucking shot.
Anyway, we should
Jeremy: The girl's like,
I'm not the killer.
And Amber's like, I know, like is,
oh my
Ben: Okay.
Finish recap so we can then just start
getting into this movie's discussion of
toxic fandom and also just the weird,
crazy moments we wanna talk about.
Sydney arrives ga her and Gail
Mourne, and they talk to Sam Sydney
wants to Sam's help to stop the
killer, but Sam's like, well, no,
get g get the fuck on outta Dodge.
EC: yeah.
Ben: But they, you know, Cindy and
Gail they put a tracker on the car.
So the hunt is on.
EC: It's good.
They have great chemistry.
Ben: oh.
Yeah.
Like, again, just Sydney and
Gail are just like such old pros.
It's really fun watching them together.
EC: Get in the car.
Get in the car,
Jeremy: you want me to help you?
And the host of the
Morning show commit murder.
EC: yeah, I love that they're
straight up like, yes,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Gail says, correct.
Ben: yeah.
The plan to get out of, of town
is compromised by Tara can't find
her inhaler, so they go to Amber's
house to pick up the spare inhaler.
TJ: she's her
Ben: kept over.
Yeah.
That she kept over there from the draft
of the script where they were girlfriends.
and then there's a big party going
on because this is a scream movie
and a murder sprees going on.
So what else are you supposed to
do, but have a big fucking rager.
We get our big uh, for West Memorial.
And everyone's very
distrustful of each other.
Nobody in this friend group
likes each other very much yet.
EC: I think they just lived through 2020.
Ben: That's fair.
EC: You know, there's a, there's a
self-care movement going on right
now that I think is very important.
Again, the fact that these teens
prioritize survival over fucking,
and the fact that Chad is like, Hey,
I don't wanna fuck you right now.
I don't want our first time to be
like during this serial killer shit.
And I also think that, you know,
like there is a, non-zero chance
that you could be a killer.
So it's nothing personal.
And then she gets mad and he's
like, you're right for being mad.
Jeremy: That is a valid
EC: that's a valid response.
And I'm like,
Ben: We stan an emotionally
intelligent king.
EC: right.
Yeah.
Chad and Hobbs and Shaw,
the heroes of this movie.
Ben: Aw.
So both Chad and Mindy get attacked.
Real bad at the party.
Chad especially just gets so stabbed.
Whether it's turning down sex, whether
it is finally turning around to see
the killer, like coming up behind you.
Like, even if it is just like them
being rewarded by the rules of
the universe, like they do, make
decisions that I think earn them,
they're reprieves in this movie.
EC: So the basement scene
with Mindy and is it Amber?
TJ: Yeah, I thought they were
Ben: Mean, you know,
TJ: I thought they were
EC: thought I thought so
Ben: chemistry and that, that was the
hottest fucking scene in the movie.
That was crazy.
EC: It's weird cuz I didn't really
catch anything that was like overtly
gay about Mindy that wasn't like
gay about everybody else, you know?
But I also, you know, I watched
Yellow Jackets and spoilers.
She plays a gay character
in Yellow Jackets.
Ben: She also plays the
gay character in real life.
EC: I, figured if she was being
like repeatedly typecast as like,
this cool lesbian, so automatically,
I was like, that's uh, it's
tightest Turner from Yellow Jack.
And so I was
automatically,
Ben: Teisa,
EC: yeah, it is, it,
it is the association.
Ben: doesn't eat anyone in this movie.
EC: As far as we know
Jeremy: She, She,
seems to have an appointment for
after the, the film.
Ben: not, not in a
cannibalism way at least.
Wink, wink.
Gay sex.
EC: But yeah, like this, the sexual
tension, like I was sort of projecting
Ty's Turner onto this character, but
then I was like, oh, she actually is gay
and she makes out with a girl on screen
Ben: She's also wearing a, um, like a
pride pin for a good chunk of the movie,
EC: Yeah.
And I didn't notice that until
after she like, was talking
Ben: which does not really count.
Looking at you fucking mcu America
Chavez.
Uh, which is why I am glad that we get
that amazing line where she's just like,
I'm gonna watch movies, smoke weed,
and probably hook up with Fran says,
EC: Yeah.
Jeremy: she's got a real weed and
always sunny lesbian like vibe to her.
Just
TJ: yeah.
Ben: My kinda lady.
Jeremy: there are so many lesbians
in, in movies that are like a
particular type that is a film type.
This is much more like a type
I know in real life type.
EC: same, same.
Ben: This is the type I aspire to be.
EC: right.
Like that she is powerful enough
and, I haven't been this as a
lesbian, but I've been at this moment
where I'm like, I'm gonna do this.
In fact, this is how I, went on the
first date with my husband, is basically
saying what you're gonna do, like, I'm
gonna finish this thing, and we're gonna
go on a date, or we're gonna finish
this thing and we're gonna make out now.
you know, we don't need, we
don't need any subtext here.
Like, it's just, it's so refreshing and
beautiful that she's just like, I'm gonna
hook up with you after I smoke some weed.
TJ: The only reason I'm slightly bitter
about Mindy being a lesbian is because
obviously this was what Kirby was
supposed to be in the last film, and
now that she's back, I'm like, they're
not gonna let there be two women who
are film buffs and also both lesbians
textually and like Kirby is my Mindy,
I guess, from when I was a teen.
So,
Slightly bitter.
Ben: slight spoilers for Scream six.
Kirby and Mindy do share a scene that
pretty much boils down to the both
of them going, I know what you are.
TJ: Yes.
Like Kirby's obviously still gay.
We just have not been
told it textually yet.
Ben: Yes.
They all convene after Mindy is
attacked and we get the wonderful
amber reveal of her just holding out
a Dewey's gun from outta nowhere and
shooting live right in the fucking head.
It is so sudden.
I honestly forgot about living this
movie until I realized like, oh, right.
She's the one who amber
fucking shoots in the head.
Um,
And then like, fucking Sydney
and Gail arrive, like, and then
Amber comes out pretending to
be stabbed, which a Ruth said.
As we discussed, Gail and
Cindy see through fucking
EC: Right.
Ben: and just becomes an instant shootout.
They're all running around scared,
looking for Amber, Amber's hunting them.
People are going downstairs and
it's a big struggle for the gun,
EC: two lines here that I
really wanna uh, highlight.
One is being a sexually
available woman is empowering.
Um, yeah, that was the seventies.
It's, it's a little,
it's more complicated.
Two, the fact that Richie tells Amber
to fan out, and I'm like, you can't
fan out if it's just one person.
Which is,
Ben: he doesn't, he, he's just a,
he's just a film dork who's just
EC: he's, oh yeah.
And then I love it.
I love it.
Amber also survives being
shot and being burned alive.
Ben: Well, I feel like we, it kind
of needs to be Richie who at least
killed Wes because otherwise like
what insane super strength is amper,
like fucking pulling off where she
is just flat out being stronger than
someone like much larger than her.
Jeremy: I think
it's supposed to be Wes that
attacks, Tara the first time.
I think Amber's doing the phone stuff,
and I think Wes is the one that attacks
her because Tara is one of the few, like
assaults in a scream movie where like
ghost face does anything that's not stab
somebody, he straight up like, breaks
her ankle by like kicking it while she's,
you know, laying at an angle uh, which is
not like a traditional ghost face move.
Ghost face is usually just like run
over the couch trying to stab somebody.
But like they started a mall,
Tara, in that opening scene.
EC: Yeah.
TJ: And you said Wes
was bigger than Amber.
I'm like, are you sure?
Wes looks pretty tiny.
Ben: Wes is
TJ: You think that Twin
could defend himself?
Ben: is also, Wes is tiny,
but Amber is also very tiny.
Jeremy: Amber has
Ben: no, Wes is only, well, I mean,
it's definitely Amber who kills
Dewey, and so she does just fucking
lift that grown ass man up by
like a fucking shish kabob knives.
Um, that's true.
Yeah.
So Richie's revealed to be
the killer him and Amber.
They gather uh, Gail, Cindy and Sam in the
kitchen reveal their master plan to create
the basis for a whole brand new stab,
reboot movie with Sam as the villain.
It's fucking insane and
just really, really fun.
But Tara's still free running
around, making phone calls
and freaking people out so our
protagonists are able to fight back.
Fucking one of the greatest
moments in film history,
Gail, to get glorious revenge.
Dewey shoots amber so hard
that Amber turns on the stove
and is also set on fire.
And then Richie just gets stabbed by like
a million times cuz we get the new rule of
if you're a ghost face, don't let Sam have
a knife or you're gonna have a bad time.
Sam only knows one kind
of kill and it is overkill
EC: yes, but it's also, there is something
to be said about, the, the presence.
Someone who's been through it, as
Sydney's been through it and, being
a character with actual survival
instinct when you face off, you
know, one is definitely more real.
I feel like there's a bit of that going
on with Sam where she's like, you know,
I've, I've had to deal with this legacy.
There's this, part of me
that is kind of chaotic.
And I attribute that with my, secret dad
who's also a, a ghost and a serial killer
and, you know, whatever that is in her.
And I haven't seen Scream six, so I don't
know how that that pans out, but like
whatever that is in her is definitely
more real to her because she struggles
with it rather than being an ideal.
Character that the people who
are playing ghost face in this
movie are, if that makes sense.
But I think that the actual meaning
of it, and the meaning of it that I
choose to take from this is that being
a character, being like, a killer to
be a character and to be narcissistic
or whatever, is not going to ever
be more interesting or legitimate
or, powerful than being a survivor.
And I think that was also mirrored in
the movie with Sydnee with, with the
original scream because she survived.
And Billy and Stu were all
just ab obsessed with this
image of being movie villains.
You know, a lot of the screen movies
kind of have that going on in, in
various levels of, of intelligent ways.
In this case also, like the direct
reference to fandom was interesting.
I don't know if I felt like it
was really like that deep, but you
know, again, I don't give a fuck.
It's a screen movie.
Anyway, I've, I've
interrupted the recap again.
What, so the killers have been revealed
Ben: And they're dead now.
They have been burnt and stabbed.
And then Tara got their customary, oh
no, Amber's back to life, but it's okay.
She got shot in the head and everyone
has a big moment of like, they chill
at ambulances and, and Chad and Mindy
are alive, and Sam and Tara are sisters
who love each other and thus is the
next generation of scream protagonists,
forged in knife and fire and blood.
The end.
Jeremy: And as I said, we get an.
Nice, long goodbye Gail.
Goodbye Sydney.
Moment.
At the end of it,
Ben: Except actually only.
Goodbye sydnee fucking m C U style
like Gale Weathers will return.
And I swear to God, when I went
to see Scream six and theaters,
Gale Weathers just up appearing
on screen for the first time.
Got the biggest applause I've ever
seen in a theater, aside from Captain
America picking up mul near an end game.
TJ: yeah.
Ben: It's cap wielding mul, near,
and just Gail Weathers fucking
being Mother and scream six.
TJ: And Kirby coming back,
that also got applause.
Those two moments for
Ben: applause.
It got applause.
Gail Weathers coming back.
Fucking shook the theater.
EC: it's, it's interesting because like
in this movie, the reveal of Sydney
and Gail were both very, like, I can
see that being of, a applause moments.
Um, Tui's reveal in this movie was
just as sad as it was intended to be.
TJ: Aw.
EC: like slow Zoom trailer.
Tears for fears.
Mad World doesn't actually play,
but it's there in your mind.
TJ: If we never see Sydnee again,
which, if we don't, I'm gonna be pissed.
Be because I won a third movie in
this new trilogy and I want her
to team up with uh, Kirby and Sam.
But if this is the last time we ever
see Sydney, like, you know, I, one of
her last lines is like, I'll survive.
I always do.
I'm like,
we're leaving her in such a good place.
That part of me.
You know, I want her to keep that
happy ending, but I do just wanna
see her come back and kick ass
one more time in like a prominent
Ben: like
it, it doesn't feel quite grand enough to
be the final ultimate sendoff to Sydney.
TJ: I agree,
Ben: You know what I
mean?
Like as much as the franchise does
not need that character to continue
to thrive, like it'd be a shame.
It'd be a shame to truly never see
NV Campbell back in a screen movie.
TJ: right?
Jeremy: I think you
demerit it at this point.
I think you'd have to like bring back Stu.
You'd have to give her somebody that's
worthy of her killing them at this
point, because like she's proven, she's
proven to be immortal at this point.
So anybody else killing her is short
of actual Stu Macher like is not
going to, it's not gonna be a threat.
TJ: Yeah.
I, that's, yeah, I could get into that,
but I'll say I'll save that for next time.
I have a lot of feelings about Stu.
Ben: So this movie, I mean, I feel
like when it comes to talking about
issues and stuff, the big thing
here is got to be uh, phantoms.
I mean, and, and God knows,
we're seeing it more and more.
I mean, the harassment campaigns
we saw in the wake of Last Jedi uh,
you know, that's driven actresses,
especially, you know, people of color,
especially actresses of color Um, how
fandoms have led harassment campaigns
and driven them off social media.
I mean the Snyder cut fandom.
Do I need to, do I fucking
need to say anything else?
TJ: I think that was again, for next
time, but I think six kind of comments on
that a little bit too, as you're saying,
Ben, with especially actresses of color.
And I just wanted to bring up the,
like, Melissa Barrera was given such
slander on Twitter and online after
this movie cuz people were j roasting
her saying how horrible she was.
You know, comparing her to Sydney and, you
know, but she got a lot, a lot of hate.
And my defense of her is that, Her role
in this movie was purposefully muted
because, you know, we see her taking
those drugs to like suppress herself.
And so she is, you know, she's kind
of a blank slate to a degree to me.
And there's also just so much on
her character that she's juggling.
But by the end I think we really
see her come into her own.
Ben: I mean, and she's really character.
Like, I feel like, and again, so much
of it is like, this is, again, Sam is
definitely another character who really
will come into her own in the next movie,
is really when like the performance comes
to life, but also it's like, fuck you.
We've seen like, or like the, these
people not fuck you tj, like, fuck you.
The people complaining, like
we've seen it in some of my fans.
It's like, really?
You're, you're upset that your franchise
that used to be entirely led by straight
white leads is now in the hands of like a
pair of Hispanic sisters, a pair of like
biracial twins, one of whom is openly gay.
Like, oh gee, I'm so surprised the
Internet's being pissy about that.
TJ: Right.
Yeah.
There's not a, not a new white
surviving character to be found
Ben: No, Wes got fucking knife stabbed.
EC: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I will
TJ: or was.
Jeremy: I, I have mixed feelings
about Melissa Barrera in this.
I have mixed feelings about her in general
just because I've seen in the Heights.
TJ: Yeah.
And that's fair.
Like after this movie, I was
not, I was like, you know what?
If they kill Sam in six, I'm not gonna be
sad about it after six though, I think,
I think that'll really change your mind.
Jeremy: yeah, I, I think part of it,
part of the problem for her in this film
is that like they give her the longest
info drop in the middle of that hospital
scene where she just has to like, carry
the drama for like five minutes of laying
out this, like, this is the history of
our family and you know how our dad left.
Well, it was because I found out this
thing and like, here's how I found it
out and here's, you know, all this stuff.
And I was like, whoa, we could
have, she didn't need all that
information at that very moment.
We could have broken
that up over a few scenes
or.
We could have just left some of that out.
TJ: And I feel like she has like
three characters worth of baggage.
Like she so much going on.
Jeremy: and part of the problem with
that scene I was realizing as I was
watching it and then later in the
movie, is if I have a problem with
this movie, it's that it's underscored.
Like there is a lot of background sad
music in this movie in places that you
don't need to have background music.
Like that's a very like soap opera
scene that's scored very soap opera.
And then like, there's a lot of
stuff with Gail and Sydney later
that just has like strings under
it that don't need to be there.
You know?
I
TJ: think this is the first one
with a different composer I think.
Jeremy: yeah.
I think there's something to be said for
silence in horror movies sometimes, and
this movie does not allow that to happen.
EC: Yeah.
The, the, I think that definitely com
that definitely contributed to the
whiplash that I was feeling because it
was, the, the, these drama scenes were so
dramatic and yeah, that, that exposition
scene in the hospital, there was strain.
There was strain on
everybody and you know,
Jeremy: interestingly, it's sort of
the opposite of like the trend in
Hollywood because Scream, I think
is well known for its needle drops.
Like it just has.
A lot of pop song needle drops
in, in every, every iteration.
And then this one is like not too many
needle drops and a lot of like scoring.
That, I don't know, kind of,
it kind of feels outta place.
It kind of feels like if if Friday
the 13th were to try to score a
whole bunch of their stuff, you'd be
like, yeah, this doesn't make sense.
Like,
just just bring back the, just
bring back the horror music.
TJ: no, I I totally see that.
Like when I think of this movie, the
only song I think of is Red Right Hand.
Like I can't name any other song that
plays, whereas Scream Six, and sorry
to keep referencing the newest one,
but like, there's like at least four
songs that are like in my playlist.
Like, so I feel like maybe
this was something they noticed
and tried to course correct.
EC: yeah,
Jeremy: I mean, cause we just watched,
we just watched and talked about
bodies, bodies, bodies and bodies.
Bodies, bodies is shock.
Full of needle drops and it's
all like queer pop and hip hop
of like the last five years.
EC: Yeah.
Which I think would be cool if they
updated the soundtrack to be like, for the
Scream soundtrack to be as iconic, like
iconic songs from the current generation
as opposed to like nineties songs.
Jeremy: Yeah.
What's, what's the Gen
Z equivalent of Bush?
EC: I have no fucking clue.
I like, I like being on, you
Ben: Machine Gun Kelly.
Jeremy: Oh God.
EC: I mean, Bush had the
song named Machine Head.
But that's as bad as close as they get.
That's song rules by the way.
I don't care what anybody says
Jeremy: Got a machine
EC: Listen, that fucking the
guitar that, that's fucking cool.
Jeremy: Green two here.
EC: Bush was definitely like
the McDonald's Pearl Jam,
Jeremy: Listen, my uh, my high
school girlfriend was obsessed with
Bush, so you ever wanna hear me?
See, I don't wanna come back
down this cloud, it's, it's
EC: I forgot.
Did that one
TJ: me ask
You all
a
Ben: wasn't that the song that
they played in the co, like
every commercial for Titan ae?
No, that was like, can I get you?
Jeremy: Yeah.
That's
EC: I think, yeah, that was
Creed.
Yeah, creed is definitely like the
even more fast food version of Bush.
And they're also Christian, so
they're like the Chick-fil-A of Bush.
Jeremy: Oh God.
Ben: Oh wow.
TJ: I can't remember if
I've asked you guys this
before, but I'm thinking about like,
what character would you save if
you could save anyone in the screen?
Franchise, like obviously
Dewey.
Okay.
Besides
Ben: Parker Poey.
Parker Poey.
TJ: Okay.
Okay.
Ben: Absolutely.
Parker Poey not, don't even have to
think about that for a millisecond.
EC: these are characters that have died.
TJ: Yes.
EC: Okay.
Okay.
Sue,
Ben: not, Parker
TJ: Mm.
Ben: Lee Schreiber
EC: I have a branch and I'm so sorry,
but like
Jeremy: brand is Matthew Low.
EC: I mean, I have a lot of brands.
Let's be real, but yeah, Parker Posey,
in terms of people that I wanna know
that they unambiguously survived you
know, I want to know unambiguously
that Parker Poseys character survived.
TJ: Yeah.
EC: That's, that's, I'm just gonna, yeah.
Ben, you have a good idea.
I'm gonna steal it.
Ben: Go for it.
EC: I will.
Jeremy: I would probably go with,
with Stu, I would like, uh, I feel
like Stu has the most story potential.
I feel like Dewey died at exactly
the right time in the story.
Like
as it, it's for the same reason
that it hurts Emily, it's like
maximum amount of tragedy for Dewey.
Which like, that's sort of Dewey's
role in this entire thing, is to
be like the guy who is the goofball
character who is actually the
real tragic hero of the franchise.
Ben: It hurts so much because
it's executed so well.
TJ: Yeah, and it was so respectful
Jeremy: and the distance between
the way the, the movie treats him in
say two, where he has that comedic
limp to like five where he is just
like, I've been stabbed nine times.
I'm still gonna come help you guys.
Like
TJ: and his theme music comes
Jeremy: Yeah.
That the, Western theme music comes back.
I was, I clapped.
I clapped when the Western
theme music came in.
Ben: also showing just how much,
like what people can survive in this
franchise change is like, fucking Chad
gets stabbed nine times for breakfast.
EC: Yeah.
Ben: Chad, Chad, Chad.
Just fucking walk Nine.
Stab Chad.
Fuck Chad will fucking
walk off nine stabbings
EC: My, my biceps are
called Billy and Stu,
Jeremy: Hmm.
TJ: if I had to pick someone
to save, I would've picked
Kirby like three years ago.
Sarah, Michelle, Geller's character,
obviously loves Sarah Michelle Geller
up there, but after five I would pick
Wes, even though he has to die so
that we can get the four Wes scene.
Like he was just so precious and
the fact that he died, like setting
the table, it was just so sad to
Ben: Well,
TJ: And, and, and the fact that his mom
bites it, I thought he might make it
and
then he didn't.
Ben: It'd be fun to bring back uh,
Billy's mom as now it's like, yeah, it
is like grandma also a serial killer.
EC: Billy's mom.
Yeah.
That is a rough legacy.
TJ: Yeah.
EC: I, I mean I also have a very,
very personal connection with Sam
having like this sort of aspect of my
personality to be a, super hot guy.
That is crazy.
You don't have to keep that in
the show if you don't, if we
don't wanna like get too personal.
But I just, sometimes in the mirror
I see Ske Dorich and he says, you
don't have to put up with this
Ben: does does he also
urge you to murder people?
EC: Not so much.
Not so much.
But yeah, on a personal level, yeah.
It's more like ski to work being like,
you should take care of yourself.
And to you.
I know that is about as
narcissistic as you can get.
Maybe, or you feel like
that is the equivalent?
This is getting really weird.
Ben: power through it.
EC: of narcissism.
Okay.
Yeah.
So basically like him telling me that
I need to take care of myself is an
equivalent in terms of like extreme
self-centeredness that like to me
it feels like I'm a serial killer.
If I'm like, oh no, I'm
not going pay for dinner.
I don't know.
TJ: You
gave up.
EC: You can cut this all out.
Alicia.
It didn't really happen.
It was gonna be a funny bit in my
head, but I'm just really tired.
Thank you very much everyone
for coming to my talk about
my weird mosquito rick mirror.
I mean it's, it's a blonde chaos twink
and he wants me to, be crazy and I am
Ben: and, and, on that note, we probably
should start landing this plane.
Uh, start,
Jeremy: every person has two
blonde chaos twinks inside them.
And
Ben: set your seats to the upright
position and fold up your tray tables.
Uh, Is this movie Feminist?
EC: Yes.
Ben: Yes, agreed.
Jeremy: I
Ben: I mean, again, we got
Tara, we got Mindy, we got
like Sam, we got fucking Amber.
Liv is also there.
I guess.
Jeremy: Liv really has, Liv has never has
the character more perfectly captured.
The vibe of somebody who's not really
part of the group, but her boyfriend is
like,
Ben: yes.
Great, great call.
This is, and you got Hicks, Gaia.
You got Judy Hicks, Gail
and Sidney returning.
Jeremy: oh, oh, Judy Hicks.
I don't really like horror movies.
I prefer animated films and musicals.
TJ: Yes.
So good.
She was a good mom.
They didn't
Ben: was
EC: I
Ben: wall to wall.
Wonderful.
Like women characters from
hero to villain to innocent to
hardened from a wide variety of
backgrounds and sexual orientations.
TJ: My favorite meme from this movie,
which I don't know how, how popular
it is, but a lot of people deep in the
Scream Phantom Post, this split second
screenshot right before Liv gets shot
in the head and it's like this look of
blank nothingness on her face and people
just edit it with all sorts of random
Ben: I.
EC: pretty good.
Ben: So while Richie, while it's kind
of impossible to look away from Richie,
once he gets the ghost face reveal and
he is so much fun, I do wanna give a
big shout out for Amber's little eee eee
eee sound while she mimes the stabbing.
TJ: She's so good.
Ben: little moment.
EC: like Richie, like, he steals, he like
tries really hard to steal the show, but
he will not overcome that moment where she
just pulls up the gun and shoot like that.
That was so wild.
In ad left field for a screen movie.
And I was, I actually exclaimed,
I made a, I made a noise.
I was like, holy shit.
Jeremy: Richie's best
moment might be his death.
Where he says, what about my ending?
And I was like, it's
coming, motherfucker.
And she said, here it comes.
And did.
I was like, they did.
TJ: Sounds good.
Ben: I liked that it wasn't a
clean slash too, like it was a
fucking like rough throat slashing.
EC: And he was like, no, this is dumb.
It's like, that's right.
No one gives a shit,
TJ: Amber has a lot of good moments.
She's killing it.
But like her switch of where
she's like talking and she's
trying to get sympathy and she's
like, yeah, he died like a pussy.
She's a love the delivery.
Ben: I'm a big fan of Tara
coming in with the steel chair.
EC: Yeah, Tara.
Tara was good.
This movie also, like, it definitely
had some moments that were like,
hello fellow kids, but it was
definitely the least Hello fellow
kids movie since the first scream.
There was a genuineness of where it wasn't
trying so hard to be progressive, like,
you know, where that that progressive
heart on its sleeve, the way that, these
meta scream movies would very easily be.
Right.
Jeremy: Yeah, where the, the gay
characters are allowed to be real
people rather than stereotypes in
either direction because I, I feel like
there's definitely
Ben: the champion.
Mindy.
is
EC: Yes.
TJ: The only reason I don't like it
is I'm like, oh, the one black man
who lived through a screen movie.
Of course he's the father of
EC: Yeah, there's only one,
one black character that
lived through a screen movie.
Ben: I would say, I would say
that if the part of the whole
deal wasn't, every character we're
introducing is related to previous
EC: That's
true.
That's true.
Everybody's related to somebody and
they have to tell us no matter what.
TJ: And I just want Joel to
come back, so I don't care how
Ben: yeah.
That'd be great.
EC: Which one
Ben: Uh,
TJ: he's the man.
EC: Oh, that's Joel.
Okay.
TJ: Yeah.
Ben: But yeah, Mindy is
everything I aspire to be.
I mean, again, even we even get some
good not toxic masculinity in Chad.
Jeremy: I think this might be the only
scream that really uh, deals with race
well you know, two, two makes an attempt,
but they do also kill her one black
friend in just the quickest, dumbest, like
murder, standing around getting stabbed.
EC: Also, this movie has a slightly
more understanding of technology than
the rest of the screen movies, which
is, you know, I mean, we're not talking
about a lot of very high standards here.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think that's probably
new writers and new directors.
Yeah, because West Craven was great.
Technology in movies was
not really his forte.
TJ: Any of you watch Scream Queens?
The TV show?
Ben: I
did not,
TJ: I feel like we, you've gotta cover
it, like cover the pilot at some point
and please have me talk about it with you.
EC: I would love that.
Is that your recommendation, do you think?
TJ: Uh,
Yeah.
Now that I'm thinking about it, yeah,
I'll bring that back at the end,
Jeremy: The only thing this really
doesn't of our groups, of, of topics
that this really doesn't deal with
at all, is class because everybody
in Woodsboro, with the exception of
Dewey, I guess, is the same class.
And, and Dewey is only not that class
because he's unemployed, I guess.
living in a trailer by himself ended with
TJ: Yeah, I got the Vibe Stu's nephew.
It was like lower class, but
maybe he was just a douche.
I mean, not that obviously, not that
if you're lower class you're a douche,
Jeremy: hard to tell with
TJ: like, I don't know.
EC: yeah.
I feel like he's, he probably was
the same class as everyone, but
he spent a lot of money on the car
TJ: Right.
He did it to
Ben: he spent, he spent too
much time being dirt bag coated.
EC: yeah.
And like of course real life
things are more complicated, but
I don't think that was a class
TJ: No.
EC: so, yeah.
Jeremy: All that said, I
guess, uh, we recommend it.
EC: Yeah.
TJ: Yeah.
Jeremy: to that.
Ben: Most definitely.
EC: Yeah, I definitely think it benefits
from seeing the original scream.
I also think that you don't need to
see any of the scree before this one.
honestly, like, you can talk about
the stab movies and all that kind of
shit, but a lot of this movie is just
referencing the first screen movie.
And I condone that decision.
TJ: Yeah, no, I think they were
well aware that people stopped
watching after two for the most part.
but then if you watched
four, you get Judy.
So like, it's not that it's
completely unrelated from the
last one, which I appreciate.
EC: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I guess that leads to uh, what uh,
what do we wanna recommend for people
if they enjoy this or just in general?
Tj, what's your recommendation?
TJ: Yeah.
Might have given it away, but
um, scream Queens, the TV show.
I loved that when it was on the air.
It came out right after I got into the
Scream movies, so like, it really filled
that void of what I was looking for.
And like the Scream TV show was out
at the same time and it was like,
no, scream Queens is kind of more
scream than the Scream TV show.
And it's just very funny and meta and
uses technology well highly recommended.
And then I might have mentioned this
one before too, but um, Curse of Chucky,
which is, I thought of it because Emily
was mentioning Tara with her crutches at
the end, and you know, being a badass and
curse of chucky's all about a girl in a
wheelchair who is fighting off Chucky.
And it's amazing.
EC: yeah.
Okay.
Jeremy: Awesome.
Uh,
Ben, what do you got?
Ben: I know I've recommended
it before, but fuck it.
I recommend yellow jackets.
Jasmine si boy Brown is also in it.
A bunch of characters are
textually gay and the rest of
them are meta textually gay,
EC: I was gonna recommend that,
although I've recommended like
the last three podcasts, but
it, it's so good.
I mean, if you're, if, if if you
like the Scream movies, if you like
the nineties stuff if you're like
me and you just wanna feel ancient.
Um,
Ben: Want Yeah, something
slightly different.
I recommend succession.
It has nothing to do with
this, but it's incredible.
And as of recording it just
ended a few days ago and I
can't stop thinking about it.
TJ: I need to binge watch.
Ben: It's so good.
Jeremy: I haven't seen any of it.
TJ: neither.
I'm excited.
Yellow, you mentioned yellow jackets.
Like the second to last episode, there
was a scene that was very final girl esque
and like a chase, and I was like, Ooh.
Very, very horror final girl vibe.
I loved it.
EC: and Yellow jackets in the season two.
TJ: Yeah,
with the necklace
EC: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy: It's still, it's still on my list.
Yellow jackets
EC: Okay.
Yeah, they just finished season two.
it's kind of overlapping with
scream in my mind now because
I just watched it last night.
And that's another thing is that it does
have, like, back to back needle drop
Ben: Oh yeah,
they, they fucking love
their needle drops and
EC: Oh my God.
And they haven't, they haven't
needle dropped Trent Resner yet.
And coming soon to progressively
horrified Trent watch my new segment.
They've done the Smashing
Pumpkins, they've done Tori Amos,
they've done a lot of Morissette.
They've done like all of 'em.
I'm like, I'm just waiting.
Jeremy: Emily.
Emily.
Don't pretend.
Trent watch is a new segment.
EC: It's, it's now named, and Alicia,
if you wanna like, give it a little
stinger, or something like that, that
Ben: What is segment again?
EC: Trent watch.
That's why Trent Resner watch!
Ben: Gotcha.
EC: Um,
Jeremy: Recommendation, Emily?
EC: my recommendation is go and listen
to their original Scream soundtrack.
TJ: Ooh, by the vinyl.
I bought the one.
It's like red and beautiful
EC: if you have a, if you have a record
player, buy the vinyl or just buy the
vinyl and put it on your wall and then
get, like, you know, download the thing.
I don't think they have CDs
TJ: pretty.
It's a collector set, has a vinyl
for each of the four movies.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
EC: Nice.
Jeremy: Buying a vinyl is a very
scream way to celebrate the screen.
Just saying
EC: Also donate to organizations that help
relocate people who are being targeted by
TJ: Face.
EC: or well goes face, but also like
anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation
Ben: Yeah.
Yeah.
TJ: First, second.
I was like, where are you going with this?
EC: I just,
TJ: I was like, oh, you're being serious.
EC: I am actually being serious.
you know, I've, said a lot of crazy shit
this episode and much like the Scream
movie that we just watched, I think there
are times that it's good to be serious.
And, you know, sorry for the
whiplash, but you know, that's life.
Jeremy: to get a score
in behind you in the,
EC: Yeah.
I'll get a
Jeremy: the sound.
TJ: One day you have a scream three,
and the next day you're at scream five.
EC: Yeah.
Jeremy: For me, this is far from related.
But I actually got a chance to uh,
go out and watch a movie in the
middle of the day in a theater.
And maybe it's a good thing that
it was the middle of the day
because it was evil dead rise.
And,
TJ: Oh.
Jeremy: as much as I hate the Evil Dead
remake I really enjoyed Evil Dead Rise.
It is brutal and violent and bloody.
And if there's any, part of you
that is like, I don't wanna see
visceral, horrible violence on my
screen, don't go, just don't do it.
Uh, it's really rough.
But like, it also has an appreciation
for the, like, over the topness
of the original that I don't
feel like the first remake does.
I feel like my problems with the first
remake are best explained as the fact
that the one scene that they decided
to bring over wholesale was the lead
female character getting raped by a tree.
Ben: Oh, no,
Jeremy: like
Ben: the one thing they bring back.
Jeremy: yeah, they do uh, they
do, and they make it more.
So like that was, I think, the moment
that I checked out of, of that film.
It feels like everything in that film
is, moved towards rape and humiliation
of women as like a poorer thing in
a way that I'm not comfortable with.
Now, evil dead rise is like traumatizing,
if you like, are not okay with kids
in danger if you're not okay with
like extreme levels of violence.
Don't do it.
If the idea of uh, somebody
being attacked by having a cheese
grater drag down their leg does
anything for you, that's your film.
It, I I enjoyed it in a way that I was
like unsure about for a while and it
turns a corner at some point where like
the level of violence just gets ratcheted
up pest, torture porn stuff to like, oh,
this person is eating glass, and you can
see the pieces of glass like sticking
out of their throat as they're doing it.
TJ: it was hard to watch.
Jeremy: yeah, and I think it's, you
gotta have a certain like switch in
your head that just goes, oh, this
is ridiculous and I'm enjoying it.
TJ: Yeah, I was at those sorts of parts.
I was definitely squinting cause I didn't
wanna look, but I also couldn't look away.
Jeremy: yeah.
There.
And there's stuff like towards the
finale of this movie that like, I was
just cackling in the movie theater, like
horrible stuff is happening, but like,
finale is so big and gory and over the
top, and it feels like it gets what
Evil Dead is doing without necessarily
having the like Bruce Campbell level
of slapstick, which I'm fine with.
I know.
Like, that doesn't hit with the
same audience that is going to
the theaters to see movies really.
So like, I, I would recommend Evil
Dead Rise with a giant asterisk
that's like, know know yourself
EC: No thy self.
TJ: Yeah.
Well, I'm a, I'm a evil
dead remake defender.
But hearing what you just had
to say though, I'm like, I feel
like I need to re-watch it now.
Cause I loved it when I was a teen
and it was like the first one I saw.
So it has a, a special place for me
Jeremy: I don't know.
EC: come out?
TJ: in 2013, I think.
EC: Oh,
Jeremy: yeah.
I don't know how much of my distaste
for it has to do with my general
distaste for Fite Alvarez as a director.
Because that's well
established on this podcast.
I dislike don't breathe
of a fiery intensity.
But like, the fact that they uh,
do sort of replay the thing that
Sam Ramey was like, Hey, let me
take this out of my second film.
And then, come back around to like,
do a really slow, really close in
shot of one of the girls who's being
possessed, like pissing herself I
was just like, why is this here?
EC: Oh, yeah.
No, I'm
Jeremy: like it's
TJ: Bra.
You?
P p perverts out there?
EC: yeah.
Jeremy: yeah.
They're really like, yeah, she's
con been controlled by a demon,
so she's pissing herself now.
And I was like, the level of just
like humiliating female characters
and, and sexual and sexual
related violence in that movie.
It's just not for me but
Evil Dead
TJ: but Mia, I love Mia though at the
end, that's like the best part to me.
Jeremy: I think she's a wonderful
actress who has the misfortune
to be in two movies by the same
director that I really dislike.
All right.
That said go see evil dead rise or don't
you already know the answer to that.
Wrapping it up here tj, where can
people find you online and find
out boring about what you do?
TJ: You can find me generally on Twitter
or anywhere else under the username.
Troy Finn too.
You'll find me talking about books and
queer things and pretty often queer books.
So if you need a book
recommendation, hit me up.
I really like Dog Night and l
Campbell wins their weekend.
Those are two you could check out.
EC: I heard those are really
TJ: I heard they were good.
Actually, I'm, I've read one
and I'm reading the other.
So I have really, really enjoyed both.
So yeah, hit me up if you
need a recommendation beyond
that, but start with those.
And then I also do podcasting.
You can find me on all
sorts of shows, guesting.
And then also co-hosting Gotham Outsiders,
where Chris and I talk about Batman things
and DC things and just make them gayer.
EC: Awesome.
Jeremy: Nice.
As for the rest of us, you can find
Emily at Mega Moth on Twitter mega
underscore moth on instagram@megamoth.net.
Ben is on Twitter at ben lahan on their
website@benconncomics.com, where you can
pick up all their books and pre-order
l Campbell wins their weekend, they're
debut middle green novels from Scholastic.
I've just been told by an
excellent librarian that it's good.
Finally for me, you can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at Jro five eight
and on my website@jeremywhitley.com.
You can check out everything I write,
including the just released the Dog Night
that I wrote in Bree Indigo Illustrated.
It's great I think, but
other people say so too.
EC: Amazon recommended it to me.
Jeremy: hey i's
TJ: Cool.
Jeremy: I'm sure you've never
searched Princess on Amazon before.
EC: Oh yeah.
Jeremy: And of course the podcast is on
Patreon at Progressively Horrified and our
website@progressivelyhorrifiedtransistor.fm
and on Twitter at Pro Horror Pod,
where we'd love to hear from you.
And speaking of loving to hear
from you, we would love it if
you'd rate and review this podcast.
Five Stars helps new
listeners find the show.
Thanks again to TJ for joining us, and
thank you to all of you for joining us.
And until next time, stay horrified.