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Convergence by Cato Networks is a show for IT professionals made by IT professionals. We'll talk about the most burning questions, hear bolder opinions and mostly learn about what is happening in the IT world today
Robin: [00:00:00] Product marketing for information technology services is a crucial aspect of any IT business. It involves effectively communicating the value and benefits of your services to potential customers, positioning them in the market, and ultimately driving sales. In this episode, we're diving into the future of it and discussing the latest techniques and tactics for promoting cutting edge products and services.
From identifying target markets to crafting compelling messaging, we'll share insights and expert advice on how to effectively market the technology of tomorrow. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn how to market the future of it with strategies for success. Welcome, Demetris. How are you doing today?
Demetris: I'm doing pretty well. And how about yourself? Oh,
Robin: it's a pleasure to talk to you. So before we get started, let's go on the journey. How did you get to where you are today? What's your career path?
Demetris: Ooh. Okay. So my career path, it's, it started about [00:01:00] 20 something years ago. I'm not gonna date myself, or it started a little more than 28 years ago as a systems engineer.
So I worked with a company called Extreme Network. . And then I moved on from Extreme Networks to a couple of startup companies that blew up in a negative context. And then I moved on from product, from systems engineering to. Doing a bit of a product sales specialist. I did a little bit of business development and then ended up in starting with product marketing and I started doing product marketing when I was with Juniper Networks and working out of Hong Kong.
And then it's just grew from there. You might say, I found my home in product marketing and this is where I've been ever since.
Robin: That's a great story. And with 20 or 20 plus not going to date you years of experience, you've probably seen how multiple companies have done product marketing or tried to technically market to the world.
So from your experience, has product marketing been the same in every company?
Demetris: [00:02:00] No, definitely not. In general, okay, so let's understand in general what product marketing that encompasses, so product marketing entails thought leadership en entails our speaking events, evangelism strategic meetings with customers and partner Content creation involves collaborating with field marketing, corporate marketing, and of various different teams within new organization.
I'd like to say that product markers were a technology poet. That we tell a story that helps connect or translate the technology of our process of solutions into a language and visuals that allows the customers to, to feel that this solution is what they've been waiting for all their lives.
To solve all of their IT issues in creating all of this content, we are trying to basically ensure that we are reaching and resonating the message to the desired audience and helping them feel that we are actually solving their core issues.
And of course, if the messaging is [00:03:00] not quite there, we are adjusting or adapting it as well. Now with some c. Some companies out there, they will actually define product marketing as a function that is solely responsible for demand gen or fuel marketing activities. And there's, in fact, there's a big well-known company out there that if fits this picture perfectly, Then other company where they'll have product marketing as a small subset of this, of all the functions that I mentioned earlier.
And they will take responsibilities like thought leadership, evangelism strategic engage for customers. and they will limit that to just the field cso, a field cto. Product marketing in companies, it really varies and it really depends upon the type of products that it, projects that you have.
It really depends upon also the size of the organization. And it really just depends upon your know how you feel. You can best take your product and marketing and bring it to your customers and make sure that you're resonating with your target.
Robin: I love that you [00:04:00] mentioned that high product marketing is different depending on the size of your organization.
Cause I know a lot of organizations mainly may only have one or two people running their product marketing organization and for a lot of companies IT product marketing is seen as something that isn't directly tied to the revenue baseline. So how do you market an IT solution? How do you get the good work out?
Demetris: That's a very good question. So I think you have to start off by not trying to tell the story of everything you do in one shot. Okay. Doing that, you start sound like some of the the bigger unfocused tech companies that are out there, . And there is one notorious one that their motto is, we gotta tell people about all of our.
But we have to realize that when it comes to product marketing, that there really is not a sweet spot per se, of marketing because every technology company will approach it differently depending upon the type and the strength of the [00:05:00] solution. Every one of us we want our customers to feel that and believe.
Only we can solve the problems that they're having in an efficient and effective manner but this is where the I think the differences are highlighted. Some will market their solutions as a by creating a, or you can eat buffet menu of features that are included in their product and try to convince you that you need each and every last.
Otherwise you're not even stopping The most basic problem this is common for a lot of cybersecurity vendors, to be quite honest. And many of their customers will tell you that they don't use 80 to 90% of those features anyway, and they probably never will. And then there are, cus then there's companies out there that they'll try to market their products by comparing themselves to everybody out there.
Even the more irrelevant competitors. It's almost as if they're trying to convince the. That they deserve airtime into space. And then there are organizations that are like Cato, that we market [00:06:00] architecture instead of features and position the solution based upon a common set of use cases.
Now these use cases, they speak to common problems that most customers are trying to solve. And by marketing these solutions and speaking to those use cases we're able to have those customer conversations. Begin like with a bigger picture and help us zero in on the specific challenge that a customer is having and then helping them work through that.
What speaking to use cases also accomplishes is that it helps a customer, believe it or not, identify a challenge that they are, that they previously may have overlooked or just considered part of doing business, not put those in air. But now that they know that this is actually a problem and this problem actually has a solution and there's actually a vendor who is able to connect to that problem and may have a solution for it, it now puts 'em in a different head space.
[00:07:00] Okay. And so this is how you know the strong vendors with strong solutions are able to market their products by focusing on architecture and focusing on use. The customers are of the problems that customers are trying to solve, and they try, and we avoid trying to get into this little feature comparison and give you this buffet menu because it really doesn't work for customers today, and that's really not what they're looking for.
Robin: When you go to a buffet, everybody just runs towards the crab legs. They ignore the rice, they ignore the potatoes, they just want the good stuff. I like how you mentioned scale . That's why absolutely , but you need to have it. It's your baseline. If your co, if your product can't handle networking, if you don't have rice, that's things that are assumed to be there now.
I like how you said that some of the problems can be solved by zooming out and looking at the bigger picture. Now the way I see a lot of it, and technology is like a jigsaw that the further out you zoom, the GRA greater you have of the landscape, but sometimes jigsaw [00:08:00] pieces are missing. So as a product marketing manager or pmm, how do you market the jigsaw pieces that don't exist yet?
And why does PMM do that?
Demetris: Oh, okay. So I'll say the short answer with that is, When it comes to marketing features that don't exist, don't do it , try to do so in my opinion it will damage the company's credibility and it will perform lasting damage to its brand. But I think we might wanna look at it from a different perspective and it and look at it as, , how do you how do you create a market that doesn't exist?
Okay. And I think that might be the better question. And in this case, you're trying to market a product or solution instead of just a feature. And when you think about it, this is consulted how sassy came about by defining the Sasse market before Sassy actually became something that people were talking.[00:09:00]
now, cus companies in this situation, they will create this market by understanding a problem or set of problems that exist, but no other product or solution out there adequately solves or you feel it can be solved differently, more effectively and more efficiently. Now, we would then defy a series of use case scenarios of these common problem.
Connect the shortcomings of the current technologies and solve these problems and then present the customer with a better alternative. So in this case we are presenting like a what if story as in what If you had a solution that did A, B, and C and it solved your problems for D, e, and F, what would you think about this solution?
Would you give it a. And with the very first customer that says, yes, I think I will give that a try. You've now just defined a market for your new solution. So I think it, it is clear like how you frame [00:10:00] the question not necessarily market a. Feature that does exist. But how do you create a new market that does not yet exist?
Robin: This makes PMM product marketing management more like storytellers than traditional marketeers. So if you are always adding new use cases or new solutions or new things that can be overcome with product enhancements, how do you build that brand narrative to resonate with that target audience without being disjointed from previous chapters of your story?
Demetris: I would've to say the quick answer to that is you gotta bring value, you gotta solve problems and don't bs the customers or the market and that, that's really all that that customers are warned from us. And doing so will create that that strong brand and have customers asking for you repeat.
Of course, we have to realize that not all problems are easy to solve and not all problems actually have a timely solution. These are extremely difficult [00:11:00] ones. They're unique problems and they require a bit more thought and strategic planning behind it, behind coming up with a solution, become coming up with the effective messaging and so forth.
And this is where company teams, including product marketing, especially product marketing, can help bring that value. When we are spending all the time with the customers and key partners, We are sometimes hearing about these unique challenges that that many of the organizations are facing and with their current solutions or previous solutions that just may not have been an ideal fit for community of common use cases.
So by working collaborative to help develop solution and in the associated messaging and positioning for that we can help resonate, help this resonate with costume. and help them realize that, okay, there's a different way to solve your unique challenges. And something else just popped into my head too, is that in creating a strong brand for an organization, you have to.
how can I put this? [00:12:00] You have to be true to yourself. Okay? We have to constantly ask yourself that that why question as in like, why are you in this market? Okay? Why are you trying to solve this problem? Why is it so important to you? Why is this type of customer, the type of customer that you want to help?
For example a sassy company, which Cato is. , they can go acquire a CRM company or a project management software company. But why would you? Is this who you are? Of course you wouldn't do that because you would dilute your focus and your resources. so helping to maintain and create that strong brand narrative that resonates with the audience.
It not only comes from being able to listen to the market and be thoughtful and strategic and delivering the solutions and the messaging and stuff like that to the market, but it also comes. Making sure you are being who you are in the market, saying true to yourself. [00:13:00] And companies that know, you, know why they're doing certain things, they will always remain true to themselves and also have a a very strong brand inside the market as well.
Robin: I think it's important for an individual as well to not lose their own personal authenticity because both far too many people end up becoming a mouthpiece just for the corporate narrative and lose sense of personal identity. So trying to keep that honest and true and being seen as a trusted advisor in the space is also a challenge and an important challenge.
So was that interest in your role? What do you find most engaging and what do you find most Challeng.
Demetris: I think what I find most engaging or what I like the most about my role is the fact that I'm, as a product marketer, you are you're touching so many different parts of the business in general and with my particular role.
I get to engage with so many different teams I get to engage with you. [00:14:00] For example, I get to engage with the sales teams the different marketing teams, the product management team. I get to do, I get to do a lot of things. And I think, but my favorite thing that most of your thing that I love doing is being involved with all levels of content development and content.
From the tofu, mofu, bofu. So top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, and bottle with fellow activities. I love to write so writing white papers, eBooks, laws, and so forth. It's a lot of fun for me and it's very easy for me to do. And like I say, I just really enjoy it. Also enjoy recording webinars and doing podcasts like this.
So I'm doing with you here, know. so these are some of the things that really bring out the. in my product marketing role for me, and this is what I just super enjoy, to be quite honest. Now the things that I find challenging is I guess we could probably do a podcast in and of itself, but I would probably say getting the messaging positioning perfectly perfect.
Now, I jokingly [00:15:00] say that I'm the world's most imperfect perfectionist It doesn't matter whether it is a strategic conversation with a customer or partner or writing development content public speaking, you name it, hitting the right message in trying to create that, that aha moment, that educational moment for for a customer or partner or whomever the target audience is, that's important to me, to be quite honest.
And there's really no sweet spot. When it comes to. to that to specifically marketing in general. So try as I may try as we may, as product marketers to get it perfect all the time. It's just not gonna happen and it's not possible. Now, it doesn't mean that we as marketers should just give up on trying to make the perfect pitch or the perfect set of content or anything and just start throwing stuff out there and hoping that it.
But as long as we never stop trying to get [00:16:00] it perfect, and maybe I should just say me and not put my perfection issues on everybody else, as long as I never stopped trying to get it perfect I never stopped trying to do the right thing for the, for for the customers.
And with content and everything, I think that's what matters most. And I think our customers and those that we deal with on a daily basis, I think they really appreciate.
Robin: But sometimes you honestly do just have to throw stuff out at the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes writing a blog or a webinar of producing a webinar or doing a podcast, it won't be perfect.
And accepting imperfection is part of the journey to perfection because if everybody was perfect, there will be nowhere to improve to, to achieve, and to nothing to strive for. But trying to find ways to improve is. So say you record a podcast or write a blog or produce some materials for the top of the funnel.
What data, what analytics, what [00:17:00] lines of measurement should you use to both inform and improve the product marketing strategies to make sure that your next one is even better? How do you use numbers to make life better?
Demetris: In general, we are based. The content and everything that we are generating is space fund engagement.
If if we're getting the clicks, we're getting the the call requests from customers who are reading the content if we're getting more POC requests from from customers based upon the content that we're producing out there, then we're. We are being affected, that we're resonating with the market, we're getting more opportunities for a sales team.
We're generating more leads for them. Then we understand that we are actually doing our jobs and we're. Material that we are creating is resonating so it really comes down to this data is everything and data analytics allows us as marketers to get a deeper insight into the type of content and understanding what type of content is actually working and whether it resonates with a certain customer demographic [00:18:00] and doing so, it also allows us to be able to what's the best way to work, what's the word to use here? Maybe to optimize the efforts that we're putting forth in order to achieve a, be achieve a better r o ROI for our efforts. So our job at the end of the day as product marketers is to position a product in order to drive a dead level of.
in the form of that, as I should for that adoption and retention. We can't achieve this without data, and this is why it's so important. And data allows us to to customize the content strategy that we have in, in anticipating some of the patterns that that our target market will have and identify some of these real opportunities.
It allows us to understand okay, so what are the customer problems? What are their buying trends? What are their decision processes? And a whole host of other key data points that allows us to adjust that messaging accordingly. And basically when we do that, and we're using data to, to get this type of information, and we [00:19:00] are acting on this particular data, we are now basically speaking to their solution needs.
We are incre increasing and that customer engagement, we're speaking to their needs and we are trying to, we are demonstrating them that we are trying to actually solve their problems. And this is one of the advantages of using data analytics in in.
Robin: And what about the things that aren't really data analytic?
Things like thought leadership and thought marketing. No. It's becoming more and more prevalent across the entire IT networking and security landscape to not just see a vendor to purchase a solution from. Instead, you want to partner with that vendor and you want to know that about vendor. It's delivering continuous improvement of networking services.
They want to be seen as being an industry disruptor. So what would you suggest around that level? Approach thought leadership. Is that data driven?
Demetris: Thought leadership is, let me [00:20:00] thought, leadership is not really data driven or No, it's not. No, it's not really data driven. Yeah. Can we ask this one all over again?
Okay. Thought leadership is not really data driven. It is more about express. An idea or series of ideas that demonstrate expertise in a particular specialty area or topic and and party this knowledge on your target audience. And in order to stand out in a particular market using DO leadership, you have to un you have to start from the basics and the basis really is new your audience and continue to learn about them.
So if you are, if you. Looking to impart knowledge on a bunch of C level executives. Okay? You have to un you have to know more about them. No. What's their decision process? How do they like to assume this information? Okay. And by doing that, you're demonstrating that you are a thought leadership expert.
Okay? Another way of demonstrating thought leadership from a marketing perspective also is being [00:21:00] very active on a social. Okay. And bringing fresh, new ideas so there are a lot of organizations that are, they're constantly belonging. They're constantly putting stuff out there, but. They're not necessarily new ideas, they're not necessarily engaging, they're not necessarily bringing customers in demonstrating kind of value to the customer in and of itself so it has to be react, but it has to be valuable.
And that brings us to the next point that I have here, is that the content that we're putting out there as well it in it, it has to not only demonstrate expertise in a particular specialty or area, but also needs to be valuable content. It needs to be something that they can. . It needs to be something that they can connect with that they can say, huh, I see this.
I have this problem. No, I think we can solve using this way, so let's give this company a call and see what happens. Okay. See what they, if they can help us. Okay. So it has to be valuable. Something the organizations can use. I think also Thought leadership. From a marketing perspective, [00:22:00] we have to be omnipresent with the content that we have.
So that means we have to be everywhere or a variety of places, and also delivering a variety of content as well. And this comes back to understanding your audience, which was the first point to start brought out understanding where your target audience likes to. their material, they, their that information, understanding what, where their favorite watering holes are, and then being there always constantly with new, fresh ideas of fresh material that's going to continue to keep them engaged and that's going to eventually bring them to you.
That, to ask you to help them solve whatever kind of problems that they're engaging that they're um, encountering at that particular time. I think another thing with. With thought leadership is that you also have to be aware of what your competitors are doing, and you have to be aware with not just what they're doing, but also what they're saying about you.
Okay? So staying up to date [00:23:00] there and being in tune with this, it also helps you adjust how you actually communicate through your target audience as well too, because g. They're going after your target audience. So you need to be there. And also countering that message and that position that they have against you, against their approach.
And I think my final point would have to be, it goes back to something that I said earlier. You have to be who you are. Okay. Now thought leadership, cause I mentioned it's about expressing ideas. It's about demonstrating. Your expertise in a particular area, different specialty you have to be upfront, honest, and genuine about where your specialty is and where your quote unquote capabilities and competencies are.
And understanding that, knowing where you are, who you are, and why you are doing what you're doing. I think it's gonna be something that the audiences out there are going to really, truly appreci. is going to demonstrate that yes, you are a thought leader in your field and that you are not [00:24:00] just giving them stuff that they want to hear, but you're giving them stuff that they need to hear.
And by giving 'em stuff that they need to hear, it's going to resonate with them a lot more. And then you're gonna remain in their mindset, in their psyches a lot longer as well too. So I think this is probably key for for utilizing thought leadership in in.
Robin: Everybody you engage with, they want something from you.
So you better just give them something that'll be useful for them. Exactly. Now, if you could travel back in time and give a young Demetrius some advice, once again on that topic of giving, what would you give them?
Demetris: I would probably tell a young Demetrius to. Just do what you do. Don't worry about anything else.
Just focus in what you love. Be who you are and then just let the chips fall where they may there's a time when you need to force it. There's a time when you just sit back and just let the game come to you. Okay? I would tell the younger de. [00:25:00] Understand when you need to do both.
Okay. And then just enjoy the ride and enjoy a nice, wonderful career in product marketing.
Robin: It was a pleasure chatting to meet Chris. Until next time, thank
Demetris: you very much, Robin.