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A weekly interview podcast hosted by Melissa Hague features Courageous Coaches who explore the grit and bones of what it takes to be truly courageous. Whether you're a coach, consultant, or a leader, join us each week to explore what it really takes to be transformational in your coaching practice, your business, and your life.
Hello and welcome to the Courageous Coach podcast.
Thank you so much for being here, whether you're listening or watching.
I'm joined today by the wonderful Alison Roberts, who I have recently met and already
enjoyed a very wonderful and intriguing conversation with.
So I'm really excited today.
Alison and I are going to have a conversation and we've got this kind of loose topic
around curiosity.
But as always, we don't know where this is gonna go.
So we'll see, but I know it's gonna be a good conversation.
So thank you for being here, Alison.
And let's start, as we always do, just tell us a little bit about you, Alison.
Thank you so much, Melissa.
So I am a qualified coach.
currently work in senior learning and development.
I am freelance and I run my own company, Comm's Lab, which is all around helping people to
develop the human skills that AI cannot replace.
So I want to take you back a little bit with my story because I was lucky enough to have a
father that
He's a scientist and he taught us to question.
He encouraged it actually.
He encouraged a level of curiosity um in all of us.
And he wanted us to test things out, to look for patterns, to challenge even his thinking.
So from a very young age.
My brain was just full of questions and I never grew out of that.
at the age of seven, which was a bit of a turning point for me, I can remember I was in
the playroom and my mum had organised a birthday party for me and I was waiting for all
the other children to arrive.
And I remember looking up at the skylights and I could see all the dust filtering through.
on the sun's rays.
And as I was doing that, I became aware of a level of communication that was out of
context for me, something that I previously noticed.
And that prompted a series of questions that in some way I'm still pursuing.
But the reason I want to highlight that experience is because it had a really defining
quality on my career and
It really encouraged me to understand that there are multiple levels on which we
communicate and to investigate how I could uh immerse myself in more of those levels in
order to connect better with people.
And the second thing that I want to bring up is that for me,
connection, communication, building rapport, all of those things have been in response to
trauma early on in my life.
And so when you kind of converge the two together, you can see how this journey has kind
of brought me to where I am now.
Yeah, amazing, isn't it?
what a, I was going to say, colourful story, right?
I just could feel your story and what a gift that is, right?
To be able to share a story and for someone that you are speaking to and sharing it with
to feel connected to that story.
And something you said, I think is really interesting to me because this whole idea of
curiosity and you said, you know, as a child, you were really...
encouraged to be curious and ask questions and challenge and, you know, which are all
things that as coaches were like, well, that's kind of what we do, right?
But but you also said and you never really grew out of it.
And I think that was such an interesting thing to say, because one of the things I'm
really conscious of is that I think certainly for me, there's a there was a lot of natural
curiosity in me as a child.
I
wouldn't have maybe didn't label it as curiosity, but really curious about the world.
And I was one of those annoying children who asked why and why, but why, you know, and
drove my parents probably a little bit mad, but you know, really natural curiosity to
learn and experience and touch and feel the world around you.
But I think I did grow out of it as I got older and became an adult.
And I moved much more into that space of wanting to be a knower.
And once I knew I was done, do you see what I mean?
That sort of almost like it was a destination to get to something to achieve.
And then of course I became a coach and suddenly everyone was going, curiosity, very
important as a coach.
And you must be curious.
And I'd almost forgotten how.
right?
Because it just, I'd sort of, I just unlearned it almost.
And so really part of my journey as a coach has been to really reignite that childlike
curiosity, right, around people and the world around me and all of those things.
I just, is that, I mean, I know that's not your story, but do you recognise that in the
people that you work with as well, Alison, do you see that?
Oh, 100%, Melissa, this is such a common thread that we're digging into here.
I was leading a course on women in leadership and one of the women's managers had said to
her, you need to be more curious.
And what frustrates me and other people about that is that is a meaningless thing.
That is a meaningless instruction to give somebody.
in the same way as you might say to a coach, you need to ask better questions.
Well, what does that mean?
Because better questions um do not allow for you to tailor what you're asking to the
individual.
And so I think there is a say-do gap there.
I think the gap is
We're asking people to be more of a certain thing.
And many people like yourselves have forgotten how to do that.
And they're suddenly standing there going, well, this sounds great.
Where do I start?
Yeah, absolutely.
What?
Yes, you're saying that be more curious.
I love that.
Ask better questions.
ah Yeah, but how do I do that?
Okay.
So, okay.
So this is interesting to me because curiosity is such an important part of coaching, but
it's also a really important part of being courageous because one of the important things
about courage is that we want to stay in the kind of
be a learner, not a knower space.
And that being a learner is where the curiosity comes in.
But of course, to be curious, we have to be vulnerable because we're saying, I don't know.
I don't know the answer.
I don't know where this might go.
And so there's a vulnerability to curiosity, I think, which also means as adults, we kind
of avoid.
Let's protect, arm up.
I don't want to feel vulnerable.
But it's actually our route to courage.
If we know that we want to be curious, and we're being told to be curious, but we're maybe
a little bit like me, it's not it doesn't feel natural, or maybe we've unlearned it, we've
forgotten how to be curious.
What?
Where would you where would you start?
How would you encourage, you know, one of your clients or others to be curious?
What would that actually mean for you?
So there's quite a lot to unpack there, Melissa.
But what I want to do is just start with the vulnerability piece, because I think that we
have a decision about how we choose to feel.
And for me, I don't see vulnerability as a strength or a weakness.
In fact, you can almost sideline vulnerability
when you make a decision to be in service of your client, because then you understand that
it's not about you and that gives you courage.
And it means that you bypass the slight resistance or the friction around vulnerability
because you're all about impact, contribution and service.
And so I've used that as a reframing tool with my clients and that's worked really well.
Okay.
And okay, so this again in, oh, right.
Okay, curious, I'm interested, right.
Hooked here.
So this is such an important part of the work I do as well, because I love that, you know,
vulnerability isn't a strength or a weakness.
And you also said something very important, which is I choose to feel.
Yeah.
indicating right that we have a choice and some level of choice about the feelings, the
things that come up for us.
And this is such an important part of emotional agility, right?
This ability to go, oh, okay, I feel vulnerable right now, or I feel sad, or I feel happy,
or I feel stressed, or whatever it is.
And I am curious about that emotion, right?
And Susan David talks about this as being emotions on
aren't directives, they're data.
And therefore, can we be curious about them?
And that's been transformational, I think, for me, in terms of, you know, regulating
emotions, emotional awareness, and using my emotions effectively in service and in the
work that I do with clients.
And I think that's what you're kind of talking about there.
How does that land?
Yeah, exactly that.
Exactly that, Melissa.
uh I think that if we focus too much on our inhibitions, and we are talking about courage
here at the end of the day, uh my inhibitions have got no place for me personally.
in how I approach my coaching relationships.
They are irrelevant.
And so I think that there is a mindset piece around this.
And I think that this is part of what it means to be a courageous coach and a courageous
leader, that you acknowledge your emotions, whatever they are.
and you validate them, we're all human, and you keep moving.
And that is what curiosity can do.
It can support us in moving through some of those um slightly challenging, slightly
uncomfortable emotions.
And I think the other thing about curiosity is that when you begin to embed it more
consciously in your life, and it is a decision, um
What happens is that those things become part of the curiosity process.
Mmm.
Okay, so now I'm curious about the embedding, choosing um intentionally to embed curiosity
in your, let's just say life, right?
Not necessarily just coaching, but in your life.
So, okay, so what could, not should, but what could embedding curiosity look like?
playfulness, I think, begin with.
I think it is being fascinated by others, the world around us, our environment, our inner
workings.
And so I start with things that fascinate me, new tech, AI.
There is so much out there that is fascinating.
So for me, it's more a question of trimming down what I find fascinating.
But fascination and then playing with it, playing with what we see and understanding
always that we know nothing.
It is very, very easy, especially like I'm 62.
I could turn around and say, I've had a 45 year career.
There are things I know a lot about, but actually all it takes is for me to have a
conversation with someone whose values are different, whose perspective is different, and
I realize I know nothing.
So playfulness, fascination, not being so attached to what you think you know, that you
inhibit new insights, new patterns, new information and new growth happening.
I mean, when you started to talk about the things that you're fascinated by, right?
I mean, what I noticed, you know, watching you as you were speaking is your energy shifted
immediately, right?
Oh, I'm fascinated.
And it is almost like a childlike, that beautiful childlike, my goodness, you know, what
could this be?
What might this be?
And so I love that idea of, what am I fascinated by?
And, know, what creates that energy for me as well?
And I always, I always say to people, actually, I say to people when I'm working with new
coaches, know, doing new, you know, doing their first coaching qualification.
And we talk about, obviously, they, talk a lot about listening as a skill, right?
And, and
this whole thing of someone speaking and what you're actually doing is you're preparing
your next answer, rather than actually listening.
the new coaches always say to me, but how do you stop that?
How can I stop that kind of thing that I've been doing for years as an adult?
And I always say, my only answer really, and like you say, I don't know this, it's not,
this is just,
how it kind of, how I keep myself present and listening is that I am endlessly curious
about what this person is gonna say next, because I don't know what they're going to say
next.
I might think I do for many different reasons, but I don't know what they're gonna say
next.
So I am endlessly fascinated.
Like, what is this, what's this person gonna say next rather than what do I need to say
next?
And that's a really, just a very slight shift, you know?
So I love that idea of fascination, because I think that's what it is for me, curiosity,
yeah.
So I think that it's interesting because we've doubled back on the part of the
conversation where we spoke about vulnerability.
And I made the point, it's not about us.
Once you take the spotlight off you and put it where it belongs, then these things become
a lot more easier, a lot more natural, and they flow as part of the conversation.
And everything then becomes a lot more human, a lot more real, a lot more in the moment.
That is something that I think takes a little bit more courage.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, absolutely.
And I think that there's something interesting here as well, because, again, I think that
when we do our kind of early kind of coach training, I say whether it's the first
qualification or the first course that people do when they learn about coaching, you know,
that we are and I say we because I know this is what I learned.
And I know, you know, other people have reported this as well is that
you know, often what we learn, it might not be specifically what we're taught, but what we
learn is it's not about us, it's about them, it's about the client, right?
And interestingly, what I see is that many new coaches translate that into, I must keep
myself distant and removed, disconnected, we might say, because it's not about me, it's
about them, right?
And I think that's a misunderstanding of the nuance of what it's not about you, it's about
their means.
And I think that's what you're talking about here, right?
Because we want connection and we want humanity because we're not AI bots.
So we want some of us in the connection, in the relationship.
But I think when you said mindset, I thought, yeah, it's this mindset piece of not about,
it's not me, it's them, right?
I think it's that service mentality.
oh And I think certainly from my experience of talking to my network and my own goals
around coaching is all about how we can empower people and how we can help them live a
more happier, more satisfying life.
So this is not about, this is finding a
where we can join and where I am prepared to step into the conversation uh as my authentic
self, but where I am.
curious in that I am monitoring my responses to ensure that they don't disconnect me from
the relationship and the discussion.
I think that's where that's where we're at with this and that and you know that that does
take some self-awareness.
a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
I mean, this whole piece around, you know, this whole series uh or this season in the,
podcast, we're talking about grounded confidence and curiosity is part of that grounded
confidence, but that's alongside, you know, self-awareness, mindfulness, know, emotional
agility, you know, there's, there's kind of component parts to it.
And you're right.
think being aware of self, how, you know, doing your own work.
on self, knowing what gets in your way, how things might happen for you, how to regulate
and notice what might be helpful here, because it's about the connection between me and my
client and what's my stuff, what stuff that I need to deal with in supervision or
reflection or whatever.
All of that is part of what we're talking about here, I think.
Alison, I want to come back.
to playfulness because you sparked something there for me because funnily enough, I worked
with a wonderful, wonderful coach last year called Ashley Crocker, and I'm a huge firm
believer in coaches need coaches to be coached, right?
And a wonderful coach and he works outdoors, which is where I feel often most alive, most
present and most curious is when I'm out.
in kind of nature.
Anyway, that wasn't where I was going.
But one of the things we worked on was playfulness.
Because again, um as an adult, I've kind of, or I had, I've kind of forgotten how to play.
And a lot of my play as an adult, as I uncovered, is what I call structured play, which is
still play and still valuable.
But this kind of free play was like,
No, I don't.
I want rules and structure and guidelines and handrails and I don't want a free play,
right?
And so I've been experimenting since during working with him, since working with Ashley to
really enhance my kind of free play because this idea of playfulness, I...
I really see this connection between curiosity and playfulness.
I can no longer disconnect them in my mind.
so playfulness, yeah, is so key to curiosity and therefore to courageous coaching.
But again, it's another thing that many of us have stopped or that's for children, it's
not for adults.
I'm a grown up now, you know, that kind of thing.
So it's so interesting that you mentioned
playfulness, because I'm beginning to love that word almost as much as I love curiosity.
I did not love it a year ago.
So, you know, there's work here for me, you know.
um I think on the playfulness part, I wouldn't say that I apply play in all areas of my
life.
But curiosity is one area where I definitely do because of where it's led me.
It's led me to new experiences, new ways of thinking and doing and behaving.
It's led me.
down past that I would never have dreamt of going.
And that is what has brought me, you know, the career that I've had, which has been a very
squiggly career.
But my, couldn't, uh when I was younger, do the career that I really wanted.
I wanted to be a school teacher, but I couldn't pass my maths level because I've got
dyslexia.
So, um
I've ended up in adult education, which is great, but all of that to say that at that
point there was a bit of a void.
I didn't know where my career was going to lead me.
So I played with options.
Then I played with the one that fascinated me the most and I jumped into that and I used
that as leverage to play with another concept.
And so I have jumped from industry to industry, environment to environment, because of a
playful approach to curiosity and a willingness to listen to my heart and my head in equal
measure and make the leaps into the areas that are the most fascinating to me.
And of course, taking the leaps into those areas that are, you know, of most fascination
to you is what strikes me there, of course, because I think what's implied is that in
doing that, you're taking the leap into areas that you don't where you don't know.
Yeah, correct.
I know nothing.
yes, like, okay, I know nothing here, right?
I'm not the expert.
don't know everything that I need to know, you know, that there's so that that's a real,
that's a courageous leap, then.
And, okay, so this is then bringing me on to the, thing around we've talked about, you
know, we've talked about working with clients and being in service of clients.
But of course, many coaches, know, in who are independent coaches, know, they're setting
up their own practice, their own business, maybe becoming independent for the first time.
So actually everything that we're talking about, or everything you've just shared there
around curiosity is true as well when it comes to your business, the kind of life that
you're creating for yourself when you become a coach or when you decide to start a
coaching business.
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, I um would never be so disrespectful to myself or to anyone else to insert myself
into environments where I clearly have no ability, no background um and no experience.
But to come back to the beginning of the conversation, because for me, human skills,
connection, rapport,
trust, listening, all of these things have been so core to my life and been like the
golden thread that's run through everything.
Actually, you can apply those in many different environments.
So for me, it's been sales, marketing, consultancy, then as I said, coaching, L &D, all of
those are people professions.
And so I have...
It's been a fascinating experiment to me that in each of those different environments,
I've been able to draw on a different level of skills, new perspective, fresh ways of
thinking.
And I have grown so much as a result of that.
One of the other things that I want to raise before we go on to the next subject is that
uh curiosity can be quite uncomfortable for people.
And as coaches, as people who are um keen to grow and develop so that we can be our best
selves for the people around us and our clients, I think it's incredibly important for us
to practice sitting with discomfort because you rightly said when you start your own
business, the safety nets are gone.
You are the safety net.
And that can feel quite uncomfortable and unfamiliar territory for people.
So what I advise my clients to do is to move into these new scenarios, new approaches
gently and mindfully and be the observer and recorder of your experience.
Gather data, understand where you're naturally good.
where you're struggling and either get help or double down on the areas where you're
struggling.
understand that this is a process and that you won't nail it.
I've run six successful businesses throughout my 45 year career.
I still feel like a business novice because now I'm starting a business, but the ecosystem
is so different.
Different.
Yeah.
definitely.
Okay, so right.
So where my kind of my mind went to there as well is this thinking about this idea of kind
of sitting with discomfort is that we, um you know, we're talking about this in terms of
coaching, you know.
in our work with our clients and potentially, you know, if you're running your own
business as well around that.
But one of the things that I guess strikes me is that
Well, this is my experience.
So I don't know whether this is true for anyone else, but certainly in my sense, something
I've become really aware of only really relatively recently is that if I want to be
courageous in my coaching work, if I want to exercise curiosity, I want to be able to hold
space and be present and
you know, do all of those things that we aspire to do to the best of our ability as
coaches.
I can't do those things in isolation, just in that coaching bubble.
I actually need to live my life in that way, if that makes sense.
So I also need to be curious and sit with discomfort and all of those things.
And in all aspects of my life, and I think that that
was like a bit of a realization for me of that's what being human, being a whole human
being in your work means.
It's not about work life separate, right?
So I've been finding ways to get really uncomfortable in my life or to sit with
discomfort.
Sometimes I have to force the uncomfortability.
Like I do something brand new for the first time.
Last week I went to a line dancing class for the first time in my life.
I was like, this is going to be a nightmare.
I'm not going with a friend.
I don't know anyone there.
I've never done this before.
I'm not, wouldn't describe myself as a dance.
I was like, do you know what?
I'm going to do it.
And I got to count, move, dance and sing along to some great music.
What a fabulous evening it was.
But that was an example of, I need to make myself a little bit uncomfortable sometimes
outside of just in the coaching space.
So this idea of sitting with discomfort, I just really like this idea of
It's not just about doing that with your client.
You need to experiment.
I love you use the word experiment.
You need to experiment with that in lots of different unique ways to really strengthen
those muscles, you know?
Yeah, 100%.
I think some of the conversations I've been having recently are about how we reduce
rigidity, which comes from habits and comes from other people's expectations, the
environment's expectations around us.
And I think once we...
become more more aware of it as you have.
You can then start to say, well, this bit is too uncomfortable for me now.
It's too big of a leap because kindness is really important.
So whilst I am unafraid to challenge myself and challenge others in a positive way, you
have to be kind as well.
And so it's about moving yourself along a timeline on the understanding that
That's what you're doing.
You are looking to remove rigidity and increase curiosity and therefore broaden your
experience and your ability to play in all areas of your life.
And that comes back to what we said at the beginning.
It's a mindset, it's a decision, it's an inner drive.
It is an intention.
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that.
It's because another thing, another episode that we've got coming up in the season is
around.
We talk about, we're going to be talking about mastery, but actually we're going to talk
about mastery and discipline.
And discipline is quite a difficult word, I think, for some people.
But for me, discipline is that intention.
I'm going to keep doing this and I'm going to keep trying.
And I, maybe I'm going to push myself to that edge, that edge where I say, hmm.
okay, this is about where I'm, you know, as far as I want to go right now.
But really, but there's a discipline required in order to do that.
Because your brain will kick in pretty quickly to go not safe, stop doing this, because it
thinks that you know, something dramatically terrible is going to happen when actually it
really isn't right.
So really that I love this idea of rigidity versus agility, right.
So when we when I talk about emotional agility,
The opposite of that, of course, is emotional rigidity.
And I think that something I, again, have sort of become aware of, learned recently, is
that we search for rigidity in times of uncertainty.
When we're uncertain, we want certainty.
And one of the ways we get certain is we say, right, well, I'm going to get rigid.
This is the truth.
This is the way.
This is what I know.
And actually,
You know, everything is uncertain right now.
feel like, and I say right now, I just feel that's life now, right?
Life is just uncertain.
It probably always has been, but the world around us is uncertain as well.
And so I'm really aware that in that uncertainty, my brain is going to do its very best to
find certainty for me because certainty is safe.
But I need to be able to sit in that uncertainty.
And like you say, you know, avoid or stay away from being mindful of that rigidity.
Whilst being kind, I'm just going to repeat your point, which is a really important point.
Whilst being kind and compassionate to yourself.
Yeah.
I think.
um
Trying to find safety in a world that we cannot control and that ultimately is never truly
safe in the true meaning of the word.
em
will not lead to peace and will not lead to happiness and is the death of curiosity.
I think
What I have found is that rather than discipline, which is a word that I really struggle
with, prefer habit.
And I have found that the more I play with big and little questions, different questions,
new questions, the more it becomes a habit, the more
confident and the more, yeah, the more confident I am because um doing different things
differently is a habit.
And so the more you apply curiosity, the more surprised you are, the more you realize you
don't know.
the more there is to know, the more excitement for me personally that generates.
And the more comfortable I am with the unknown, with discomfort and with um areas or
moving into new areas, forging new paths.
So I think habit is the precursor.
for confidence in all areas actually, not just in this area.
Yeah.
And it's kind of practice, commitment to, all of those.
Yeah, absolutely.
Rather than just say that word discipline just makes me feel like I'm at school and I get
a really visceral reaction to the word, right?
But it's a commitment to practice and to create habit and in setting intentions, keeping
going, all of those things, definitely.
Yeah, definitely.
Now, I the other thing that's just sort of niggling around in my brain, tapping away at me
is around this idea of curiosity, because I know this, again, this is part of my story,
really.
But I know that often, you know, I came out of employed life into, you know, setting up my
own coaching practice, you know, I have lots of different bits of my business, but you
know, the idea was to coach as much as possible.
And
What I realized quite quickly is a big part of my story, and I think others that
experienced this as well, is that where I'd come from corporate life, where everything, I
was rewarded for having the answer.
I was rewarded for being the expert in the room.
I was promoted, I was renumerated, I was praised, recognized for being...
the expert for having the answer for being the knower.
And I was, I was really, when I became aware that I wanted to step away from being a
knower and being into being a learner and being curious, I was kind of like, Oh, I didn't
realize how much that had become, I'm going to say habit ingrained, right, because of my,
in my experience in employment.
And so that's where the unlearning began.
Yeah.
And I think that that, you know, still catches me out sometimes.
I might be, you know, with a client or whatever, and I find myself needing to know.
And I think, I don't need to know, you know, lighten up and let's think about the
curiosity.
What would curiosity look like here?
So I sometimes think, I think what was niggling around in my head is that maybe there's
something about...
The system around us that exists around us also doesn't always encourage us to be curious.
And so it is a question, I'm not sure it's a question for you to answer, Alison, because
it sort of feels like it might be a bit of a big question because it's kind of like, okay,
so the system around us is encouraging us to be a Noah.
and doesn't really reward curiosity, but we want to break free of that, right?
We want to know, I want to break free of that.
And we've now got to unlearn all of those stories and all of that conditioning that we've
had for, you know, in my case, 25 years or whatever.
And I just, I kind of feel like that can be hard.
That's a hard, hard, it's not doable.
It absolutely is doable, but it's hard.
that sort of brings me back to your point around habit, intention, being kind to yourself.
Yeah, there's something in that, unlearning that's that's tough, right?
It's tough.
So look, um you are not the only person that's talked to me about this.
And I'm sure this is going to resonate so strongly with so many of your listeners who are
making the transition out of um the guardrails provided by corporate into a whole new
area.
What you've talked about is quite a deep and nuanced question actually, or series of uh
remarks because
When I talk to organizations about embedding curiosity, one of the first things is, does
your culture support it?
Or are you working on your, you know, your culture or your values in such a way that it
can support it in the future?
Because if you're not, there's going to be a disconnect there because of exactly what
you've said.
You're used to...
things being a certain way.
when you're suddenly, and by the way, there's an enormous amount of stats coming through
now around curiosity in the workplace.
And for example, in the last two years on LinkedIn, there's been 158 % increase in people
talking about curiosity, posting about it.
90 % increase on job postings requiring curiosity in the last three years.
This is not an engine that is going to start slowing down anytime soon.
And there are obviously rewards to the bottom line.
know, no company is going to promote a new behaviour or way of being if it wasn't to their
advantage.
Because times of change, as you've mentioned, we need
curiosity to innovate, to double down on that flexibility, to see and notice patterns and
um connections that we haven't before, to be more creative.
All of these different things are supported by curiosity.
So on one hand, we can see that there is this thing looming, which is becoming more and
more part of our lives.
And on the other hand,
we're seeing as you've rightly identified that our ecosystem both in and outside of work
is not geared up to support and reward curious thinkers.
So I just want to highlight something very quickly.
So I am a massive advocate of something called SQ, spiritual intelligence.
it's, I, this is not.
anything from me.
It's a lady called Danar Zohar, but I run workshops on it.
And one of the dimensions of spiritual intelligence through 12 and all is, and I'm
paraphrasing, beat to the sound of your own drum.
And another one is curiosity.
Okay.
So to me, we have a decision to make here.
Am I going to model curiosity?
and all the other things that I know are so important for me to survive and thrive in
environments of intense change and uncertainty, or am I going to beat to the sound of my
own drum, or am I going to play a smaller part in this?
And so the question I always ask myself, which helps prompt
me to the edge of discomfort and then leap is, will I regret this if I don't do it?
And I do not want to leave to finish up my life with regrets.
That is the one thing.
Everything else I can deal with.
I'll make mistakes.
I screw up.
I'm human.
know, all of these things.
I'm exploring like everyone else is.
But that's the one thing that I could not bear because it would feel like a waste of a
life to me.
So I think that we can find creative ways to talk to ourselves in such a way that we give
ourselves the strength and the courage to be the person that we know we need to.
in order to be able to thrive in the environment we're in today.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that is really powerful, Alison, right?
This whole thing about regret and not wanting to live a life of regret.
And you reminded me of this idea.
I think what's important for me, the question I think, which is along the similar sort of
lines that I'm beginning to build into my process, my internal process, is, you know, if I
do this, does it move me closer to the life I want to live?
Yes.
And it's, you know, it sounds like a big question, but actually it's a very simple
question.
I'm very clear on the life I want to live.
So this piece of work or this client or this social thing, does it move me closer to the
life I want to live?
Yes or no?
You know, yes, no, or maybe sometimes it's maybe, and it might need to be experimented
with.
But, you know, if it's a no, then I decide I choose not to do it.
this is such how we talk to ourselves that our
internal process.
And you know, it's so important.
Alison, I feel like that's a soup of just a really beautiful place for us to close.
But what I want to close with is is just kind of what I hope is a simple question.
But I'm curious about what would what would be the one thing that you would want to share
with with our audience who are going to, you know, primarily be coaches?
um around being more curious.
Ask the questions that you know you need to, but that may be a little bit uncomfortable.
Ask them.
Take a deep breath and ask.
Yeah, lovely.
and sorry, and follow your instincts with those and in your own life as well, you know, be
a bit more adventurous if you're being pulled towards something, give it a go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And live to the beat of your own drum, right?
Yeah.
Love it.
Alison, thank you so much for this conversation.
It's been wonderful chatting with you and thinking with you and being curious with you.
I've really enjoyed it.
So thank you so much for being here.
And take good care.
I will, and you too.
And thank you so much for having me on, Melissa.
It's a pleasure.
It's a pleasure.