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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the grazing
grass podcast episode 121.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
most profitable way to ranch and the most
environmentally friendly way to ranch and
produces the most nutrient dense food.
Cal: you're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's show, we have
hunter Lehman of grazing lands.
Hunter was on the podcast about
11 months ago on episode 64.
And hunter made a big change.
Went to work for grazing lands,
and we're going to talk about
his journey in the last year.
And what they're doing at grazing lands,
and then we'll dive into some genetics
they're working towards on the ranch.
And wrap it up with the
famous four questions.
We did run into a few issues.
For one, the tail end of my audio
was cut off from the interview.
So.
I've had to rerecord some of
it, which caused some problems.
Then the second thing is not really
related to this particular episode,
but my computer had fits today.
Took way too long edit at this.
It normally doesn't take me this.
Long.
Anyway, it's a really good episode
and I think you'll enjoy it.
10 seconds about my farm.
I am doing something I don't like to do.
I am clipping some pastures.
I am mowing.
brush hogging I don't enjoy
it, but I'm trying to keep
some of the sericea lespedeza.
Trying to knock it back.
Back and keep it from all
going to seed this fall.
And a couple of my pastures.
A couple of one, a mainly where they
reclaim land Cerisa or sericea was one of
the, the main grasses they put in there.
And it has responded wonderfully
to my grazing management.
Which tells me I need to
improve my grazing management.
So I'm working on that, but I'm cutting.
Cutting that, um, sericea down.
So that we don't have it going to seed.
Not my favorite.
Favorite activity.
Because sometimes you've
got to do some of these.
Activities to get to
where you want to be.
10 seconds about the podcast.
I'd like to say thank you to Tom and Joe
for becoming a grazing grass insiders.
Appreciate that.
Thank you for your support.
Let's talk to hunter.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Hunter
we want to welcome you back
to the grazing grass podcast.
We're excited.
You're here today
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Thank you, Cal.
I appreciate you having me back.
It's been, almost a year, but a
lot's changed in that almost a year.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: We are excited to
find out about that and speaking of that.
I looked it up last year
Your episode was in July.
So just about 11 months later
Find out what's going on for you.
When we left you last time, you
were managing a hunting property
and you were doing some grazing
with Vince and going down, down that
path, I believe you were still doing
all stock or cows at that time.
So tell us a little bit about how your
journey's evolved and where you are now.
yeah, so we've we've left that place
and moved a couple hundred miles
north and east near Stockdale, Texas.
I'm still heavily involved with that
ranch and still helping them and going
back monthly and consulting for them.
Just because we love that place
and love the people and the family.
And we moved there when we were married
for six months and we brought our son
home to that ranch and, it's, it was hard
to leave, but we have had an opportunity
up here that, we'd be stupid to pass up.
So just they didn't
really give me an option.
I had to do it or regret
it the rest of my life.
So we're, yeah, we're still
heavily involved there.
And Still using the virtual fencing there.
I helped them hire a guy
to do the day to day stuff.
We were running the place as a
hunting ranch as, my day job.
And then
nights and weekends, we leased the
grazing and ran the cattle on it too.
And so we found a guy to do the day to
day stuff, run the hunting ranch, and
he's also helping out with the Cows.
But the good thing is, with a low
input system and virtual fencing,
there's just not that much day
to day stuff to do with the cows.
So it's working out okay so far.
The since last time we transitioned there
to cow calf with a static cow herd, we
were trading cows, getting, buying bred
cows, getting the calves out of them.
And that was just having to
train new cows all the time
with the virtual fence
was just too much work.
And and you could also, as they get
trained, you can get pretty creative
with how you use the virtual fencing.
And so having a well trained static
herd is pretty valuable on that place.
So we made that transition.
We kept the best out of the last
group that we planted on just selling.
And added to them a little bit.
So we went through the hunting season
with well trained cows, which was nice
because while we were busy hunting, we
didn't really have to worry about whether
they were staying in or not, and then
and we actually we grazed some Sacco
Wista, which is, it's gulf cord grass.
It's a extremely productive grass.
But the problem is like very
productive, like four or 5, 000
pounds per acre productive, but the
problem is if it gets over the
top of your toe of your boot,
it's not palatable anymore.
So only way to really graze it is
to burn it and then put the cows
on it as soon as it comes out of
the ground and just try to keep it.
And I'd never done that before.
I was hoping to get 30 days
out of the patch we burned and
it'll grow green year round.
It's got such a root system.
It doesn't need very much
soil moisture to stay green.
And so our plan was to
graze that over the winter.
And I was hoping to get 30 days
out of it and we ended up getting
70, 75, something like that.
Oh, wow.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
happy with how that worked,
but it's not, even when it's young like
that, it's really not that palatable.
They don't really like it.
And so we ended up having to squeeze
the virtual fencing down where there was
zero other grass other than that Sacoista
to get them to graze it, because they
were just chewing everything else down.
They would
not go out there.
And so that virtual fencing worked
great because they were really on some
grass that they didn't want to be on.
And we didn't have any problems with them.
Getting out.
And so I was really happy with that.
We were under stock, so we
added some cows to that herd.
And we had a technical problem on some
collars that we didn't know about.
Until, we were thinking, man this
group of cows is really hard to train.
Wow, me, they're stubborn.
Man and this is probably the let's see.
The fourth group that we've trained.
And so we are starting to figure it out.
And we're like, shoot, man, we thought
we had this thing figured out with like
these cows are, man, they're stubborn.
So I got to talking to folks
at Vince and maybe there's a
problem we don't know about.
And they got to digging and
figured out that we had collars
that were not being managed.
And we had, so we, so there's
some technical problem.
Luckily, it's something that they
can fix on their end, like remotely.
And it's just taking time to
update it, every individual caller.
So now we're working on gathering
everything, putting them back in,
into a hard fenced area and start
the training all over again,
because none of them got trained.
So, but that's part of being on the
cutting edge, I guess there's going to
be technical difficulties, but everything
was going so great and I was so excited.
Okay, this is going to work.
This is, this is these cows that
have been here for six, eight months.
They're really, they understand it.
I love it.
And then as soon as I thought that right
around the corner, we had, we're trying
to train cows and then having technical
difficulties while we're training it.
So it turned into a bit of a wreck,
but we're coming out of that now.
Um, hopefully we'll get them retrained
and get that going good again.
Like we had it in the winter, but.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Yeah,
if you're not having some kind of
problem, you're not trying hard enough.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
When you start talking about putting
shock collars on cows, that it's
pretty, you should expect some problems.
So
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411:
Just on those shock collars.
Have you felt how hard
they shock or have they,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
yeah,
they I wish I could remember some,
one of the events, people on a podcast
one time he said like the voltage and
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
gosh, I wish I could remember, I
think it's less than a thousand volts,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
so it's, it's a heck of a lot
less than a good hot wire.
And I've tested it on accident, but I,
I test, I
tested one on accident one time
and it's really not that bad.
It made me drop the collar, but
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Right.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
so and that's a good thing because
if they, if you leave a calf behind,
they, a cow's going to go get her calf.
She'd
just walk Right.
through it if she's got
her calf over there.
So you want that, but you
better do your training right.
Because if you teach them that
they can grit their teeth.
Then that's just the way
they're going to handle it.
They're just going to grit their teeth.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: I know
years ago when I had a few goats and
I had one of my livestock guardian
dogs and they were not staying with
the flock like I wanted them to.
So I decided I bought one of those
shock collars that you bury the fence.
So I just ran that fence along my
perimeter fence, just a five acre paddock.
And I was making a few
YouTube videos at the time.
So for the YouTube video I talked about
putting it in, and then I shocked, I, I
tested it out to find how bad it shocked,
which To be honest, I'd rather take
that than my electric fence out here
that'll pop you and my funny bone hurts.
I don't like touching that.
I did throw down the collar, but
yesterday I threw down a reel,
and that cost a lot of money.
At least nothing broke, but I
thought I had I have zammer hooks.
On the end of my reels, I love those
Zammer hooks, but here's one negative.
I'd moved it to, so the line was dead.
And I was at the other end, just an
eighth of a mile away, so not far.
And I'm rolling it up, and I'm not
being careful because I think it's dead.
That thing bit me?
Oh!
I get back up there, it slid against
my post, and the carter key or the
wire that was in that post was hitting
that live part of that zammer handle.
I was not impressed then.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
Good night.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: You're
having to do some retraining, but
that's going to happen as you're, with
new technology, like you brought it
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
So hopefully this second round of training
with the collars working goes the way the
last three rounds did and
we'll be rocking and rolling.
If we have problems over, over the spring
and summer, it's really not a big deal.
But we better
have our ducks in a row by hunting season
or we're going to have some issues.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
We got until September to get
everything lined out and working
good and cull the ones that are
not going to be, not going to work.
So
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So you're still involved
with that cow herd up there.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: yes,
sir.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Still, yeah.
Still helping them with their
wildlife management stuff
and and pretty much managing the, that
cow herd with the exception of, the
day to day checking water and mineral
and when, and when we move them,
you know, And
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: And I
think you had mentioned before you
had some cameras on some things.
Being two hours away, are you able
to get on a camera and see them?
Or are you using a heat
map from the vents?
I
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah, I can see where every individual
cow is on the virtual fence.
And and I can log into the, if they
have the cameras on the waters, I can
check water, but I don't ever do it
because the guy that, that look, we
lucked out and hired a really good,
Manager to take my place.
And so he, he does a good job and he,
and he's there as the wildlife guy, but
he knows a thing or two about a cow.
He day works and stuff.
So he's pretty handy and I've
gotten to know him over the last
few months and I, trust him.
So it's nice to have a a good
manager there that you can count
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
It helps me sleep at night.
I don't have to worry
about those cows at all,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: oh, I'm sure.
Yeah.
But, and you do have that peace of
mind that you can get on there and
see where they're located and stuff.
That's pretty cool.
We're going on a vacation in a couple
of weeks and of course there won't
be any problems, but I'm just going
to have to hope the cows stay in.
Not that they wouldn't,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411:
Having a heat map would be
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: So
Hunter, tell us about your new
position and what you're doing now.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
I'm running grazing lands now.
Grazing lands is, Owned by Soil Works
Natural Capital, which is a fund that is
investing in regenerative agriculture.
That was started by a couple of guys
who are kind of experts in building
businesses in the software space and
they They both for different reasons,
just found regenerative agriculture
and just got passionate about it and
went down the rabbit hole that we've
all gone down and, read all the books
and watched all the YouTube videos and
they're just, convinced that this is the
most profitable way to ranch and the most
environmentally friendly way to ranch and
produces the most nutrient dense food.
And so they are zealots.
But they're not ranchers.
But what they do well is
buy and grow businesses.
And so their contribution to
regenerative agriculture is to
run these businesses really well.
So they
started acquiring some businesses within
the regenerative agriculture space.
So they own Pasture map,
they own grassroots carbon,
they own power flex fence.
They own range ward, which is
they have the razor grazer.
And then they own grazing lands,
which is the operational the
ranching business in the fund.
So we right now just have
cattle, you know, any room in
it is possible, I guess for us.
Who knows where it leads, but right now we
just cow calf on a lease, all leased land.
And so I'm running that.
So left the.
the.
deer hunting industry behind
and doing just what I love.
But in Texas getting away from
hunting is in, um, big city deer
hunters is never going to happen.
So having that background.
And knowing how to handle those
guys and those relationships and
knowing how to graze places where
recreation is the priority is going
to be valuable for us as we expand.
But right now, we lease a, we lease
the grazing rights on Pajarito
Ranch, which is in Pandora, Texas,
between Stockdale and Nixon.
And and then the, there's other.
The hunt, the landowner leases the
hunting rights out to somebody else.
So we share the ranch with hunters.
So it's very similar to where it
came from is except it rains a lot
more, there's cool season grasses.
I've never seen any cool
season grasses before.
And and which.
Was awesome.
I had so much fun learning about
that this year, but I screwed
up, like a thousand acres.
I just totally let go to waste.
And right now it looks like it's August
to
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
because all those cool season annuals
have died and the warm seasons are
coming, but they're hiding underneath
all those dead cool seasons.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
I'm like, man, if I'd have known
what I was doing, We would have been
moving a heck of a lot faster, and
we would have got in here and done
something with this cool season forward.
I'm learning a lot, but really excited
to, to be at grazing lands and have the
potential to make a, make an impact.
Just doing, just being in cattle all
day, every day, instead of nights
and weekends is awesome for me.
But, we have a big mission and, we want to
facilitate regenerative agriculture being.
The status quo in America.
And um, that's a pretty daunting task
because paradigms are hard to change.
And but that's our mission.
And so we have three avenues to get there.
We were number one, we want to prove it.
So we're operating ranches
regeneratively at scale so that we
can be a case study and say, look.
This is a, this is not 10 acres that,
you know in, in our backyard, like
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
we're doing this at scale, this is a real
business and we are, enjoying profits
that are beyond what the industry expects.
And this is why it's because of
these regenerative practices.
And so that's one avenue.
We want to prove it to people.
And then in, in order to
lease a ranch, It's gotta be
a minimum size for us, right?
Cause we want to staff it
with a rockstar manager that's
paid well and equipped well.
And we just can't, we can't afford to
do that on a hundred acres if it's not
right next to, a place
we're already leasing.
So what do we do with those places?
Because we've had, a few people come to us
wanting us to lease their 150 acre place.
And.
I love that.
I'm honored that they came to us.
I just can't, it's too far away.
I can't justify hiring a guy to
run 150 acres.
So what do we do with those places?
Because they're excited about regenerative
agriculture, and we want to see
regenerative agriculture on their place.
So that led us to consulting.
So if we can't operate it
ourselves we still want you have
these practices on your place.
So if it's not big enough for us
to justify staffing with a full
time guy we're still gonna help.
And we're a for profit business,
so we're not doing it for free, but
we we don't want to turn
anybody away that's fired up
about regenerative agriculture.
And then the last thing is If we're
successful in that there's going to be
a big need for the genetics that work
into that type of management regime.
And so we're working on developing those
genetics now so that when we do succeed
in our mission we have, we are the
source for those regenerative genetics.
And I'll stop there cause we're
going to get into that later.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Yeah, we're
going to jump into that a little bit
later for the overgrazing section.
Now, one thing you mentioned there, it's a
case study or the guinea pig just to show.
I hate to use a guinea pig because.
Lots of ranches are doing
this, but you guys are doing
it on scale there or at scale.
Are you all providing?
You mentioned consulting.
Are you all providing classes,
providing pasture walks?
Are you still in the stage
of getting the ranch there?
And how long have they been doing that?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
um, so.
We've done a couple, they've done a
couple of pasture walks, not since
I've been here, but just got here.
They did they had Steve Campbell out.
If, yeah which I love Steve.
I've listened to, if you just
search Steve Campbell on whatever
podcast app you use and just
listen to everything, every episode
he's ever recorded, probably listened
to him two or three times because he
just like dumping knowledge on
you, like nonstop so they had him
out, that was a cool pasture walk.
But haven't done much of
that educational stuff.
I would love to get that going.
They've been leasing this place.
They've been leasing
Pajarito for four years.
They started trying to grass finish.
And and Pajarito is great in
theory for grass finishing because
it has green grass year round.
There's so many cool season grasses there.
It's like a 50, 50 mix.
And so as long as it's raining, you
have cool, you have green grass year
round, which is, in theory would
be great for finishing, but I think
what the, I wasn't involved with the
business at this time, but I think the
problem was long dry periods and, when
those pulses of moisture come, they're
great and they grow a lot of grass.
For cows, but for for stock, you're
trying to get finished on grass.
You need that consistency.
And, every day in that dry period,
if you're not supplementing them,
that's, they're just going backwards,
especially the ones that are near finish.
Like you really need
that finishing ration.
And we,
when you go into a drought and you've
got a hundred animals that are, close
to being finished and they just hit the
brakes right there, that's so they, they
just determined this is cow calf country.
And
and so they, they shifted
over into cow calf and And
then got hammered with a
really bad drought last year.
The total rainfall for the year wasn't
that bad, but it like all came at once.
And then they had several
months of just nothing.
And it was a exceptionally
hot summer last summer.
They just got, hammered with
that heat and just no rain for
months there in the summer.
And, um, and so that really hurt them.
They had to do some destocking and stuff.
And now we're finishing up restocking and
so far it's been it's been a decent year.
I think we're behind on rainfall
a little bit, but coming from
Cthulhu, moving a little bit east.
It's like everybody around here is
complaining about the drought, but I'm
like, man, it looks pretty good to me.
So it's all perspective, but
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: and a certain
point in there, I don't know exactly, I
should pull up a map of Texas, see exactly
where you are, but you go two miles, two
miles, sorry, you go two hours west of
me, it starts getting pretty dry there.
It's a different world pretty quickly.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
right.
Yeah.
And really this is cow country,
between Austin and San Antonio and
Houston, that is cattle country.
And were we were grazing cows in
goat country down there in Cotulla.
And so it's a totally different
ball game for me now, managing
totally different environment.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411:
and you mentioned.
Earlier about some cool seasons that
maybe could have been managed a little
bit better, but, you'll get there.
Have you found some other challenges in
moving to that lot more rainfall area?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Not yet.
Thing that, that you never have
to worry about foot rot and you
almost don't have to worry about
insects in Cotilla, when it rains,
We'll show up, but you go
through these long dry periods
and mosquito can't find a place
to live there.
There's nothing and the flies
are really not bad when it's hot.
I thought about maybe, there's some
problems that almost everybody has that
I've been ranching in the edge of the
desert that I haven't had to deal with.
But the guys that were before
me at grazing lands did a great
job of selecting the right cows.
And so they are, I've just lucked out.
I started with a cow herd that
is just really well adapted and
they've, they've never had any.
Dewormer, or any fly treatment,
or anything like that, and,
they just make a living.
And it was, trying to create those
cows, I imagine, would be, A nightmare.
And getting to start with those kinds of
cows that just, have that parasite insect
resistance built into them a game changer.
So I imagine there would be some,
if you moved, if I brought the
cows with me or something, I
imagine I would have some trouble.
These cows though, they are thrifty.
They are tough as nails.
And like I said, they came through the
drought, raised a calf and got bred last
year in some pretty harsh conditions.
So the ones that got to stay.
They're some pretty dang good cows,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: yeah, isn't that
saying you can't move cows south and east?
You want to move them west and north?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Right.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Yeah.
I know I did get some northern cows
down here a couple years ago and I
have zero of them still in the herd.
It's and it's hard to
make a generalization.
I've heard that generalization.
I can't make it on the small numbers I'm
working with, but it did hold true there.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah,
Yeah.
I, to, to an extent hardy is hardy,
but yeah, there is some stuff there.
If if that cow family for generations
has never had to deal with a parasite
load and now all of a sudden there's
a huge parasite load, that's I could
see that being a problem, I San Pedro
Ranch is in Carrizo Springs, which was
west of us when we were in Cotulla.
I know the manager there they're
very low input beef master.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
And follow the Lassiter principles
pretty closely, and they send
a lot of bulls to Florida.
And this
is like very dry South Texas
brush country.
And they send bulls to Florida
and have been sending bulls to
Florida, like by the potload.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Working.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
And they must be working cause they're
sending them to the same ranches.
They keep buying
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
and so those bulls are doing it, they are
as low input gets, and they do a really
good job of not propping anything up.
And sometimes hardy is hardy, but,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: right.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: but
so far I've lucked out just by inheriting
some, a really good hardy cow herd that's
adapted to that environment already.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411:
And those Lester principles,
they're following them closely.
They're getting rid of all the lemons.
They're keeping all the good stuff.
Yeah,
so you mentioned cow calf there.
Are you all doing any stockers
or is it all cow calf?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
not right now.
Not right now, we've we were
understocked intentionally and that,
that was, decision was made before
before I got here, but I was, I
would have done the exact same thing.
I think that was a great decision.
And then those rains
came early in the year.
And so we've been getting back
up to normal stocking rate.
As the place sits right now,
it's probably a 300 cow ranch.
There's some opportunity for some
brush work that the landowner and
the hunters are all on board with.
That can really jump
that stocking rate up.
It's a pretty brushy place
especially for this area.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
there's a lot of pasture in this area.
But so there's a lot of potential there
for us to get that stocking rate up.
Um, they stocked all the
way down to 200 cows.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
so we were significantly understock.
So we're stocking back up.
I think I think our plan at least for
now is to be slightly understocked on
our main cow herd that we're proud of
and that we're developing genetics with,
and then stock around that with whatever
the market wants us to stock with.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
So we've been we've been buying some
undervalued cows undervalued from sell by
perspective and, um, and yeah just I
think it's very valuable to have the
core herd be less than your stocking
rate or your carrying capacity.
If you're stocked to the gills with
cows, you love, and you're proud of
human nature will not allow you to make
the call when you need to make the call.
And and
then if you're trying to get to that
stocking rate, it's a lot easier to
start making exceptions for cows that you
have no business making exceptions for.
And so by keeping that the main cow herd
our primary enterprise, significantly
less than the total stocking rate or
carrying capacity for the ranch, and
then stocking up to carrying capacity
with something short term And something
that is undervalued in the market.
So that's the plan going
forward, at least for now,
but I'm known for wadding up a
plan and throwing it in the trash,
starting
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: but you've
got to make those plans So you have
the ability to wad it up and throw it
away just that planning is beneficial
going forward now at the other
ranch You're using virtual fence.
Are you using virtual fence here?
Or are you doing some poly wire?
How are you managing your cows there?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
Polywire.
And a lot of it.
With the brush, we can't get,
we can get some pretty nice
densities on certain pastures.
There's some stuff that's open, but the
majority of the ranch is brushy enough.
It's hard to get them to add a good
stock density because it's just.
Limited by places to run a wire.
So we actually just did a pretty big
project with a brush cutter on the front
of a skid steer, just making lanes to put
poly wire now.
And so now we can now we can
fence a lot more than we.
We're fencing, but yeah,
everything's polywire.
What we do because we're in like,
we're fencing a little bit bigger
areas than other people are, is we we
buy the empty reels from Range Ward
and we have a razor grazer that we
use, we only have one and we really
need four, but we're not going to go
buy four.
Um, but we buy those empty reels and they
hold, they come with I think one mile.
Or half a mile of that, of the
rope, like the bigger stuff on it.
We take that off and put,
it'll hold two miles of the
PowerFlex nine wire mixed metal
stuff, like regular poly braid.
It'll hold two miles of that.
So we typically put like a mile
and a half on those big reels.
And then Rangeward also sells a
real stand that works real good.
Just pop those reels on there
and then unroll, just put it in
the back of a buggy And drive to
unroll it and then step in posts.
And I really liked those three
eights ground rod or not ground rods.
Those three eights fiberglass rod posts.
Because it, when it starts getting
hot and dry and I start getting real
angry, trying to step in posts and it's
a nightmare when it's wet, it's much
faster to be able to just loop those
pigtails on and step them in and just go
when we've got plenty of those, but
man, when it starts getting dry.
Give me those 3 8 fiberglass rods and
a rubber mallet, and I'll go to town.
Get
stuff in a lot faster,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: i, I posted
this in the group the other day.
Someone was talking about they sharpened
the ends on their O'Brien tread ends.
I'm like, I never have to do that.
I,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
yeah.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: And
they're like the frozen ground,
or if it gets super dry, it gets
dry here, but it's never too bad.
We have frozen ground,
but it's never too bad.
It's guess that's a humble brag,
but it works really good for me.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
No I look, I think back to like, when I
first discovered this regen stuff, and
watching Greg Judy videos, and he he'll
like, just throw those suckers and stab
them in the ground.
And the internal come back by and
come behind him and clip the wire on.
I'm like, man, you don't know how,
you don't know how good you have it.
I'm out there with a rubber
mallet beating on these
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Now I did.
When I first started, I used
those three eighths fiberglass
rods and I'd take during summer.
I'd have to pound those in some.
I couldn't just push him in enough,
but most of the year they were fine.
So yeah, everybody's got their own little.
Nuisance, what's the one deal?
What's your unfair advantage?
Then and we always have something
that's an unfair disadvantage for us
as well that we have to work with but
that's okay We focus on the advantage
Now you mentioned you
got lots of trees brush.
I know on least property.
I have the place with brush With
honey locusts all over, and I couldn't
make a straight line with two posts.
You should be able to with two posts.
It took a ton more time to put up
fences there than it does on my other
properties, because I can just take
off, find me a point, and walk to it.
Was a huge time crunch, or time consumer.
Anytime I moved them over there, I had
to double my time of putting up fences,
even though the fences may have been
shorter, but Usually a bigger area
because the number of trees, number of
rocks, number of cactus to deal with.
Yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
We do a lot of fencing.
We do a
lot of fencing, but we've also have a
Power arm from Range Ward and it's a
it's got a, it's got a seven
way plug on the end of it.
And it plugs right into your pickup
or your side by side at the back.
And that powers it.
And you stick those big
reels, range word reels on it.
And just press a button
and it reels it up.
And so that's really nice.
It in Cthulhu, I was using, when we
were running polywire there, I was
using, I had rigged up a little deal
where I had, I could use a drill
for reeling up those long deals, but I was
burning up drills left and right, doing
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: And
so it's really nice to have this power arm
To reel up those long stretches, and
then now that we've done the project
of add those lanes, now the program is
we run a long stretch and then we can
cut off of it with half mile reels.
So they, Gallagher makes those they're,
three to one geared reels, but they're
the mega size or whatever, but they hold
a half mile instead of a quarter mile.
And we don't get to run a quarter mile.
At a time, very often, I think we only
have two quarter mile reels on the place.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh Yes.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
so most of our stuff is longer than that
but now that we've added those lanes,
now we can run a half mile at a time
instead of having to run a mile at a time.
And now we're cutting, we're able to
get a little bit more stock density and
still not anywhere near where I want, but
we've got plans to get there with some
water infrastructure, some brush work.
And so there's a lot of.
Potential on this place to get, it's a
5, 000 acre ranch.
And this is, the standard stocking
rate for set stocking, conventional
management is 10 acres per animal unit
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
But we're, it's not 5, 000
grazable acres, there's a
Creek running through it that is
heavily wooded and that it's about
a thousand acres, and then there's
probably 2000 acres of brush.
And that grows, the brush
grows a little bit of grass.
Not near as much as you do out
in the open pastures, obviously.
Um, so yeah there's
tons of potential here.
There's plenty of ground.
There's just not enough grazable acres.
And but we've got plans, we've
got plans to mitigate that.
And and so we've got a lot of room
for growth just on this place, and
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
If we can add to it, add other places
to it, then we're really cooking.
. cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: And you mentioned
earlier, grazing lands is actively
looking for ranches to lease and manage
regeneratively in a sustainable way.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
We, it would be, our longterm goal is
to, we want to, our number one thing
is we want to prove it to, to people.
We want to have a place to take
ranchers who are considering a change
and show them our numbers, show
them the ranch, show them the cows.
And say, undeniable
look at it.
And so to be able to do that in
multiple environments would be great
because everybody's always gonna
say yeah, but that won't work here.
It rains more over there or it
doesn't rain as much, it's always a a
reason why it won't work on my place.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Right.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
yeah, so that's our goal is to is to
apply these regenerative principles.
At scale on multiple different
places, and prove it works
because we believe it, we believe in not
because not because we, read a couple
of books, but because we've done it.
I've made the change in Cthulhu.
I saw the results.
The, the one of the board
members, he doesn't ranch, but
he owns a ranch and he's seen it.
Those practices work for
him on his own property.
And the, the founders of grazing lands
they saw it work on their own property.
So we're going into this, not.
Wondering if it's going to work.
We know for a fact, it's going
to work where we just have
to prove it to everybody else
and to all the conventional managers and
something that, that kind of wears me
out in the regenerative community is we
approach conventional managers they're, we
demonize, like we talk to them about how
their soul is blown away or it's washing
away, or you're doing such a terrible
job or you're killing your dung beetles.
And we just beat them up, tell
them they're doing it wrong.
And you're never gonna, you're never
going to convince anybody that way.
Tell them they're
going to make more money.
That's what, that's how you, so that's
really our goal is to prove that this
is the most profitable way to ranch
And say, Hey, you want to make
some, you want to make some money?
You want us to, can we add 150
percent to your bottom line?
Come let us show you how to do it.
And I don't know anybody who
wouldn't show up for that.
If
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
start talking to them about soil
microbes and mycorrhizal fungi and dung
beetles, their eyes might glaze over.
But if you start talking to
them about their bank account,
I think you got their attention.
So let's stop demonizing conventional
managers and telling them how
terrible they are at what they've
given their whole life to.
And let's help them make more money.
And so that's our approach to it is
we're going to go prove it and we're
going to document every step of the way
and all of our failures and successes.
And and then, when we feel like we've got
a pretty dang good case, um, we're, we
will have something to show to people.
And yeah, I don't, like I said,
I don't know anybody who wouldn't
show up to make more money.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: And
I, but you also touch on that
other point that's so important.
We demonize those conventional
farmers saying you're doing it wrong.
We, we don't fully know their context.
That's the best they're doing.
I spent a number of years in
a classroom and you get these
teachers, who would yell.
And I'm like, don't yell.
But what I came to realize, that's
what they had in their toolbox.
So education for these managers, so they
understand some other ways and realize
that when it gets too stressful, they're
going to go back to what they know.
We can get them to take those steps and.
and not tell them they're
doing everything wrong.
If someone came and told me I'm doing
everything wrong, first off, I'd have
to admit, yeah, you're probably right.
But I'm not gonna listen very good.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
Your humility is probably why you've
been willing to accept a new method.
But yeah, I agree.
Like the, Dave Pratt is fond of saying
everybody's doing the best they can
giving, given the situation they're
in, the stresses they're feeling or
their background.
Nobody's trying to screw their place up.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Yes.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
And so to just attack those people,
it's not going to get us anywhere.
Yeah we're going to we're
going to prove it and then
we're going to show it to them.
And then all along the way, anybody who
is ready to go and fired up about it.
We'll help them get started.
And and I talked to a lady the
other day that's just real jazzed
up about regenerative agriculture.
And she is just, she's ready to go.
She's fired up.
She's ready to go buy a bunch of fence and
buy a bunch of water line and put it in.
And she's, but she's like.
I don't even know I don't
even know where to start.
I believe in this.
I know that this, but like, where the
heck do I put the first fence post?
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
and so that's something, we've, we
have made all those mistakes before.
And so there's no reason
for her to make them.
We can save her a heck of a lot of time.
So yeah, so while we're
proving it, we'll help you.
Anybody we can along the way
and and yeah, that, that's,
it's really fulfilling to me.
Like I said, it's, we're not doing it for
free, but it's a really fulfilling part
of the job for me to see those places.
Because those small places, those are
places that, that's their pride and joy.
They
might have worked their whole life to
save up the nest egg to buy that place.
Or
that was granddad's place
or something like that.
That is their pride and joy.
And so it's when they get fired up
and they're convinced and they are
ready to rock and roll there, those
are some fun people to work with.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411:
Oh, yeah, I imagine
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
that's been really fulfilling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: going
on there for you at Grazing Lands
and excited for your opportunity
there and to see how it continues.
But it's time for us to transition
to our overgrazing section or the
severe grazing section, as we're
fond of calling it sometimes now.
And for today, We're going to talk
about your genetics program because you
alluded to it a few times that, hey,
we've got to get cows that'll work in
this environment that will function here.
Can you just take off from there
and tell us about what you're doing,
your goal with your genetics, and
what you're using to get there?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Yeah.
So the, um, the baseline of it all is
something I've heard repeated a lot.
It's form follows function.
And so we're don't, we
don't care about horns.
We're using all polled bulls, so I
guess that'll take care of itself.
But,
We've got cows with horns,
we've got cows of every color.
Does she raise a calf, an acceptable calf?
Does she breed back on time?
Does she stay in condition?
And does she do all of that?
Without being propped up.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: oh
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
and so that's the basis of it all.
And so how we get there.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: principles.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Exactly.
I've enjoyed listening to your Lassiter
episodes and and yeah it's, and, input
costs get out of control, we're pretty
convinced that eventually people to
come to the regenerative side is not
really going to be all that hard.
I don't know if that's going to happen
in my lifetime, but at some point,
there's going to be the
only way to make money.
And we might be there now, honestly.
We've record high prices and there's
people that are still going to
lose money in the cattle business.
So as those input costs continue to get
out of control the only way to make money
is going to be to pull the rug out from
underneath them and see what makes it.
Now, again I'm extremely lucky that
the guys that came before me did a
great job of selecting the right cow.
And I'm starting from a great base.
The herd, the cow herd is probably half.
Beef Masters,
they were actually bought as
heifers off of one ranch and to
be in the grass finishing program.
And they were on the ranch when
they decided to go to cow calf
and they were ready to breed.
They're like, shoot, let's,
they're doing pretty good here.
Let's turn a bull out on them.
And their three-year-olds now
haven't with their second calf
at their side, and they are.
They're rock stars.
I love them.
And then the rest of them are just,
there's blacks and reds and modded
faces and all kinds of stuff.
It's just what came through the
crucible that was last year on those
cows and did well is still there.
And what that ended up looking is a lot of
different colors, but everything is slick.
And shiny coats
and in really good shape
and small ish frame.
There are some, a handful of big ones
out there still, but pretty much the big
frame cows they fell out of the program.
And medium to small frame cows we're
just real fertile and stay in good shape.
And so now where do we go from here?
I think we're starting from a great place.
But so our.
Our first round of breeding under
my management is going to be a
bit of an experiment, and I'm real
excited to see how it works out.
So we have we'll have nine bulls.
And three of them will be I'll
call them Pharo type red Angus.
They actually
came from two of, two of the three
came, one of them is a Pharo bull,
the other two came from Southern Reds,
Michael Vance.
But they look just like
a Pharo red Angus bull.
They fit right in and And then
three beefmasters, beefmaster bulls
from San Pedro Ranch and Carrizo
Springs that I talked about and
then three African influenced bulls.
And that's our severe grazing
topic is those African genetics.
And I don't know, have you seen I
don't know if you're in the same
Facebook groups I'm in, but it
seems like this African stuff is
coming in to the regenerative space
with some fury.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: a few
years ago, I couldn't even told you
what breeds or what they even meant
when they said African genetics,
but I'm seeing more and more of it.
Elizondo, Jim Elizondo,
With Machonas?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: Yes.
Mishonas.
Yep.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: And and
then Pharo even has some African
genetics in some of their composites.
So you're seeing a lot more of this.
When you think about African
genetics, what are you trying
to accomplish with them?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
The breeds we're using
are are Senga type cattle.
So
They're Boss Taurus.
Yeah, they're Boss Taurus.
The breeds that are gonna be that
are gonna make up these bulls are
Centipole, Thule, And, Meshona.
And
The I went to Texas A& M Kingsville,
and there's a genetics professor
there, his name's Steven Lukfar,
and Cal, I know you love genetics.
You oughta look up Lukfar Ranch.
And you could make a
book out of his website.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, yes.
I think that name looks
very familiar to me.
I'll have to look it up.
I can't place it right now,
but it looks very familiar to
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
yeah,
So he's I don't know what his IQ
is, but I don't see how he could be,
he, I think he's blown past genius.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: yeah.
I'm almost up to triple digits on IQ.
I'm working on it.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
I think, I feel very comfortable saying
he's a literal genius cause I think
he's well past the threshold.
Probably the smartest man I ever met.
He he was my professor for genetics
and statistics at Kingsville.
And and so he had two passion projects.
He's retired now.
But one was he did a bunch of genetic
stuff on rabbits, on meat rabbits, and he
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, so he
does the, he's the one who started
Tamuk, the Texas A& M Kingsville,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: Yes,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: line of
New Zealands, and they have, they're
very heat tolerant, and then he
also developed a composite breed
rather than the New Zealand line.
Sorry, I also know too
much about meat rabbits.
Go ahead, Hunter.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Okay.
You're filling in some blanks for me.
I couldn't have told you what they
were called, so I'm glad you knew that.
Yeah so he and his, he's
a, just a wonderful man.
His whole goal in that was to take
those rabbits to third world countries,
because that is like the most efficient.
Protein
meat to especially being able
to raise in an urban environment
really cheaply and efficiently.
And so he went to some third world,
I don't know which ones, but he
took rabbit systems and taught
farmers how to raise these rabbits.
And and so that, that's
a super cool deal there.
But then he also had a lease place
right outside of town in Kingsville.
And he developed a cattle breed there.
And he calls him S.
T.
A.
R.
S.
South Texas Angus Red.
And,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: okay.
So I've heard of Stars.
I'm familiar with him because
of his work with rabbits because
I did have some meat rabbits.
Currently, I don't.
I'm actually looking for some more Tamuks.
I just need them closer.
And that's what I call them, T A M U K,
I'm not sure what
everyone else calls them.
I have an oaky accent and can't
pronounce words, so that's what I
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
It's funny stuff,
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: them.
But I haven't found any I like real
close to me yet, but I'm looking for
a few, like I need something else.
But I've heard of the star composite, I
didn't realize it was the same gentleman
that was involved with the meat rabbits.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: Yep.
Same genius.
He, and so all of our, like, all of our
problems, genetic stuff that we had to
work out in class was on his cattle.
And so I was pretty familiar with them.
And so when we started breeding cows and
Cthulhu, I started with a star bull there.
And I'll tell you what I'll
do before this comes out.
I'll take some pictures.
We have our first calves
on the ground out of them.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
And first ones that we're keeping
all the way to we, we sold some as
pairs, but, and man, they look good.
They are just, they came out of
the cow, slick, shiny, oily coat,
and just beautiful looking animals.
And so I'll put some pictures
on our Facebook page, but.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh, okay.
Wonderful.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
page.
But so it was really happy
with the star genetics there.
And so we're, there's a ranch that I
sourced that bull from that got, they
bought him as a yearling from Dr.
Lukar, and they're in Cthulhu.
And and so they happen to have I'm sorry.
Let's go back to the stars.
South Texas Angus Red is made up
of Senepol, a third Senepol, a
third Tuli, and a third Red Angus.
And the goal was to make a hardy
subtropical breed that will do
everything a Bos Indicus cross would
do without the Bos Indicus problems.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Oh,
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
that was his goal.
And these African breeds the
centipole came from N'Dama cattle
that were developed on the St.
Croix Island.
So they came from Africa, but then
they spent 500 years being developed.
At St.
Croix Island.
So they washy grass, parasite load,
insect resistance, all that stuff.
And then the two league came from.
Zimbabwe, where there's very similar
to the Meshona big rainfall events
and wet rainy season, so same
stuff with the insect and parasite
resistance, but then also long dry
periods where they really had to
hunt for your grub and travel a
long way to water, and so they
they had to be able to do both.
Those things of, digest lignified
grass and and also make use out
of washy grass and, make a living
in a puddle and on the desert.
And so they and also, the, just the
culture of the, all those cattle that
became their own breed were just tribes
domesticating the ones that were,
Able to be domesticated, and the way,
and the culture of management for,
generations, there has been a lot of
hurting, during the dry season, they
herd them to water and herd them home.
And a lot of times they corral them at
night to protect them from predators.
So they're they have a
strong herd instinct.
They stay together on
their own really well.
And they drive really well.
They're just, they're gentle as can
be, but they understand pressure.
They're not, you can't
scratch them on the head.
But you just give them a little bit
of pressure and they just walk off.
And so the,
they're really docile.
So they bring all that boss Indicus
toughness to the table, but just with
some really impressive disposition.
And and so that's what Dr.
Lukefar is trying to do with
that three breed composite.
And so towards the end of.
Of his project there, he started adding
Meshona to it, which Meshona same,
similar to the similar environment
as the Thule they were herded.
They were come from an area where
they get all the rain at one time.
And, there's also just the
culture there, Americans have.
Even poor Americans have money burning
in their pocket that they can't wait
to use to prop up an animal, like
we just, all we want to do we just,
I, we complained about how there's
no money in the cattle business, but
as soon as we get a little money, we
spend it on propping up our animals,
right?
It's just not an option in Africa.
Those tribes were not, they didn't have a
feed store down the road to go buy feeds.
So those animals just, it was when
humans started selecting animals
there, it was nature plus one.
It was just, just given
natural selection a nudge.
And so it was a positive thing
when humans started in, in, in the
West, we, in, in America, we've.
When humans get involved, it's a disaster.
I'm a little worried about this
African stuff becoming popular because
it's only a matter of time before
somebody starts marketing, these
African genetics for weaning weight.
The first time I see that, I know it's
over, but luckily for now, at least the
only people who are really using these
genetics are regeneratively minded and are
probably not propping them up with inputs.
So for now, anyway, we
haven't molested it yet.
So he started adding Meshona to the
mix, too, at the end, and then he ended
up selling his herd to a to a Faroe
Cattle Company cooperative producer.
To further
develop that star breed.
And I should have looked
up the name of that guy.
It's on Dr.
Luke Farr's website, who the guy
who owns those cattle now,
but
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: up.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410: they
are going into that that heat tolerant
composite that Pharo is selling now.
And so they are part of the Pharo program.
Now the breed that Dr.
Lutfar started, but there were still
some in Cthulhu they're out of a star
cow, a third centipole, third tule,
third red angus AI'd to a Meshona bull.
So these, all three of the bulls
that we'll be using are half maona.
One of them is half maona,
half sineal, and the other
two are half maona, half star.
And
Those, they're almost all, with the
exception of that third red Angus mother.
They're almost all African genetics.
And yeah, so that calf crop
is gonna be a third African.
influenced a third beef master bulls and
the third, Pharo type red Angus bulls.
And it'll be a really, it'll be really
interesting to see the difference there.
And then like I said,
form follows function.
I this African stuff.
It's, it's interesting.
It's different.
And in theory and, but, at the end
of the day, whatever produces the
best calves is what's going to, is
what the program is going to be.
And so we're going to stumble on
some combination of all these genes.
And if we continue to use good bulls and
continue to not prop up the cow herd,
10 years from now, we will be, we will
have something that we're really proud
of and and yeah, so this this little calf
crop we're having next year will be a
very cool experiment and that'll answer
a lot of questions for us and we're just
going to go where it leads us, and, to
be honest, I hope that when we look at
that calf crop, we say, Holy smokes,
look at those African influenced calves.
That is the way to go.
We're rocking and rolling,
but there's been some people,
concerned with carcass traits.
If you go to there there's an
American Meshona website and
they've done some studies.
They've done some, um, and the
half bloods seem to do really well.
I think they, I think the full bloods they
tried to grass finish them or something.
There was, it didn't grade that
well, but they had some half Angus.
that just absolutely kicked the tail
of the full Angus calves in the feedlot
and they're not really feedlot genetics.
I think they're just efficient.
So I don't know that I
think the jury's still out.
You're there's a lot of people who
are, who'll give you a lot of negative.
Uh, thoughts on, on, on these machonas
or any African stuff really, but
what makes the cow calf guy money is
weaning the calf without any inputs.
It's not, if we have to sacrifice
some weaning weight to, to get breed
up and, Successfully weaned calves.
That's, what's going to
make the cow calf guy money.
So I don't know we'll see.
But yeah I'm rooting for, I'm rooting
for the African stuff, and then, and.
We, maybe it's a cross, maybe it's
it's probably not going to be a herd
of nothing but African cattle, it's
probably going to be some composite.
Cause think about the hybrid vigor
of a composite, like a beef master,
and then a composite, like a star.
Where you have, those genetic, like that
has to be the maximum hybrid vigor that
you could possibly produce right there.
And yeah I'm just excited to see it.
It's going to be a cool experiment
and I think there's, obviously the
hardiness is cool, but but the, what
really excites me about it is just
the culture that they come from,
the management that they come from.
This is not just and
granddad's management.
This is all the way back to when they
were domesticated out of wild cattle,
and it's been, it's, the rug has been
not, they didn't pull the rug out.
There never was a rug, and
they've never been propped up.
And I think that's a little, it draws
people to like, Corriente and stuff.
I know you've got some Corriente,
is that there's a little bit of that
native Um, hardiness left in them that
haven't been totally molested by, man's
influence and our just strange desire to
want to just spend money on cattle and
so that's, there's a lot that excites
me about the African genetics, but the
number one thing for me is the culture
that they were developed in is a culture
that produces docility and hardiness
and otherwise they just they died.
We'll keep some heifers and then and then
that'll really start having fun then when
we start breeding back those heifers.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: That's a
wonderful and interesting discussion
about genetics Hunter and it'll be
interesting to see how that program
goes how evolves for you be interested
those updates however it is time we
transition to our Famous four questions
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cal_1_05-15-2024_173411:
They're the same four questions
we ask of all of our guests.
And to get started Hunter our first
question what is your favorite
Grazing Grass related book resource.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Last time I said man cattle and veiled
and that still is, is a big, is a
has a big influence on all aspects of
management, but, and especially the
African genetic stuff because there's
a lot in that he writes a lot about
breeding and in the cattle section.
But I'm going to say there's,
I think I have one for you that
nobody said before Dick Richardson.
I'm bringing him up because he's
had a big influence recently on me.
And as we developed our grazing plan.
at pajarito.
around Dick Richardson's grazing strategy.
And it's really interesting.
It gosh, we could do a whole
podcast just on this grazing method.
But to keep it short he.
He gives you a system to follow,
which, satisfies the human mind.
You, you, we want a prescription, but you
can't manage nature with a prescription.
But built into his prescription is
the adaptability and variability
that's required to manage nature well.
And it's just, it's beautiful.
I love it.
We're not doing it perfectly because
there's just Contextual challenges, but
we are Dick Richardson adjacent, and
so he's had a, I've and unfortunately
there's not, he doesn't have a ton
of stuff out there, but if you look
up Dick Richardson grazing naturally.
Is what he calls his business.
On YouTube, there's a
couple of YouTube videos.
He's a great speaker.
He's fun to listen to.
He, he's funny and yeah,
that's look him up.
Everybody ought to look him up.
He's great.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Wonderful!
I'm not familiar with Dick Richardson's
grazing strategy, so I'll have to look
that up and, and take a gander at it.
Hunter, our second question, What
is your favorite tool for the farm?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Here lately at grazing lands, it's been
a horse and I know that might be uncommon
in the regenerative world, but we've been
and trying to move frequently in brushy.
Uh, paddocks.
And there's a lot of, as, I'm sure
and all your listeners probably know,
there's a lot of problems and wrecks
that can happen when you're trying
to move pairs frequently, especially
in pastures that you can't see.
You can't just look
across and check, right?
Even when you can,
sometimes you have problems.
And so we've tried to graze a little
bit more severely so that when
we move them, they want to move.
That way we can leave a gate open and
they can go back to get a calf and they
want to get back out of there when they
go back to get their calf and that's
helped, but having, but calling them in
the front and having a horse in the back.
is the only reason that we have a
herd that's still together and not
spread out all over the damn ranch.
It's been so valuable and really I, I
think I did it initially just for fun.
I just wanted to be horseback and
golly getting those stragglers up,
especially with smaller calves that
don't really want to get up, getting
them up and getting them to the
herd and getting them all moved.
It's saved our bacon this year.
And then also, these cows there
are, like I've said multiple
times, I really love them.
They're really thrifty.
They're not super gentle.
That's another reason why I'm excited
about these docile bulls is to get
that, maybe in that next cross.
They're gentle out in the pasture.
You can ride right by them.
You can almost touch them, but when
you get them in a pen they want to
trot everywhere with their head up.
And we started working them horseback
and it just, everything got quieter.
Everything got calmer.
They just like to be worked horseback
and you get off and start walking around
on foot and close quarters with them.
It starts to get a little stressful.
So yeah having a horse on the place
and getting to getting to do some
horseback stuff has really helped us out.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Excellent.
Now for my cows, someone showed up on
a horse, they'd probably be trotting
around with their heads held high.
, I do enjoy riding a horse, but we
sold our horses a few years ago
because they weren't providing
anything to our bottom line.
Some days I do think maybe I need a horse.
Anyway.
Our third question, what would you
tell someone just getting started?.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Had a a potential intern ask
me this question recently.
And I'll answer it from the perspective
of somebody just getting out of school.
I think if you're not, when
I got out of school, I was.
chomping at the bit to get married.
And and that was the best
decision I ever made in my life.
But if you're not planning a wedding,
when you get out of school, then
go and travel and work and try to
work, go work at a dairy, go work
at a feedlot, go work in the East.
Where it rains a whole bunch and you
got fescue problems and then go work in
the West where it never rains and you're
in big country and try to get as, four
or five different places in four or
five years that are all very different.
And at some point during that deal,
you're going to find something that
you say, holy cow, this, I love this.
And that's, and then go do that
but do it before you have kids
because once you have kids, that,
that stability is so attractive
and you will you just won't do it.
You just won't go take risks because
you have bigger responsibilities, and
and so I think, fresh out of, whether
it's high school or college, I think
you can learn more doing that right
out of high school than you could, than
your friends are learning in college.
But yeah, I would say go
do a bunch of internships.
Ranches are always hiring
and yeah go travel and go do
a lot of different things,
.
So go and and go have, get those
experiences and expose yourself,
and you will learn a ton doing that.
I think you'll blow your college
education out of the water.
Going and working.
Excellent advice.
And lastly, Ben, where can
others find out more about you?
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
So we're on all the social
Facebook, Instagram, Tik TOK.
I am not a, I'm not by nature, a
social media type person, but I see
the value in it because again, our
mission is to facilitate regenerative
agriculture being the status quo.
And I can't.
honestly say that if I'm not
trying to get the word out and
showing people what we're doing.
And that stuff is work for me.
Like I, it requires discipline, and
I played baseball and I did, I worked
my tail off at baseball and I thought
that I was disciplined because I worked
my tail off, but I loved baseball.
It didn't require any discipline.
I wanted to do it.
I don't want to, Record a
TikTok video and post it.
It is, that is work, but
I'm getting better at it.
And somebody gave me some good advice.
A videographer for PowerFlex that came
out told me, he was like, you need to get
a TikTok and you need to post every day.
And I said, every day.
And he said it's one minute,
eight year olds do it.
And I thought, you're right.
So if an eight year old can
do it, then I can certainly
do it, but I'm working on it.
I'm getting better at it.
And it is beneficial.
There's been great conversations
started because of it.
And, yeah.
And so now that I'm seeing some like
results from it and seeing, seeing
some reach and stuff it's, um,
it's a little bit easier, but it's
still, it's just not in my nature.
So I'm working on that.
So be patient with me there.
We were there Facebook, and then we
have a good website grazinglands.
com.
But if you just search grazing
lands on any, whatever social media
you like to use, you'll find us.
cal_1_05-15-2024_173411: Wonderful.
Hunter.
We'll put those links in our show
notes and hunter, we appreciate you
coming on and sharing with us today.
squadcaster-9fe3_1_05-15-2024_173410:
Awesome.
Thank you.
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
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