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Welcome to The Pilot Project Podcast, your premier source for stories and insights from pilots in the RCAF and mission aviation - brought to you by Skies Magazine! Whether you're an aspiring aviator, navigating flight training, or simply fascinated by the world of military and mission aviation, this podcast is your guide. We sit down with pilots and aviation professionals to hear their thrilling experiences, lessons learned, and expert advice on resilience, training, and the skills needed to succeed in this exciting field. Strap in - we’re ready for departure!
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Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And with me again today for the conclusion of our discussion on special operations aviation in Canada is lieutenant colonel Chris Bray, commanding officer of four two seven Special Operations Aviation Squadron. Chris, thank you for being here once again today, and welcome back to the show.
Chris:Yeah. Thanks, Brian. Looking forward to continue our, discussion today.
Bryan:Listeners who are just jumping into this series and would like to catch up can check out episode one to hear about Chris's experiences in training and his early days in the special operations aviation world and episode two as we talk through what makes four two seven such a special organization. Today, we will largely be discussing the training that air crew receive under the SOTAC course. So we have talked about SOTAC at a high level. I'd love to get into that a bit. For listeners, SOTAC is special operations tactical aviation course.
Bryan:We have talked about kind of what it is. Why is it so important?
Chris:Yeah. So this is how we standardize the intake and baseline the training for new aircrew. The course is truly world class. It takes many elements from our allies' training models, but also adds so much more to account for many of the lessons learned that we had on real world operations. So by providing that training at an early stage in the career, it really sets a great foundation of things, you know, they will see in their career moving forward, delivering those, skill sets, but also captures that training at the right time.
Chris:Because historically before SOTAC, you may receive many elements of this training, but throughout an extended period while you're on the flight line, this allows us to provide that training upfront before they get too busy with their careers.
Bryan:So kind of in the past where it was almost a mentorship process, this has been more condensed into formalized training.
Chris:Yeah. So it is, formalized, professionalized training to kinda get them to that, that endpoint. It's a great course. And in fact, what I will mention is there's certain elements of the course that we have opened to the RCAF, as well. So specifically the, SOA mission planning phase of that course, we have invited elements of the RCF out to, partake in that, because that makes us better as an organization so that when we do have RCF elements supporting a cancel of commission, which is almost always now that we have a certain baseline understanding of, you know, how do we plan and execute missions?
Chris:Because, you know, every fleet plans differently. And this is a way just to bring convergence to that planning. It allows kind of mutual understanding of the capabilities as well. Mhmm. So, you know, we'd run this course once a year.
Chris:And, each year, we invite a fairly large cadre of RCF on this course to partake in the mission planning, aspect of it.
Bryan:I was thinking initially like, oh, you're you're saying like other Tackle units or something. But from what you're saying, I'm guessing you're talking about, like, people from the j model fleet to plan, like, tactical air deliveries and how would that interact with your operations or higher level sustainment or a bunch of different supporting various platforms.
Chris:Yeah. We we not only invite, you know, the tactical aviation, side of it, but also other fleets within the RCAF. Increasingly, our, you know, exercises and operations require different platforms. So, like you said, having members from four three six, bringing that c one thirty aspect to our mission planning is extremely important. So, yeah, it's open to the entire RCAF.
Chris:And, each year, we get more and more representation on it, which is, excellent so that when we do conduct force generation or, operations together, we start with a common baseline understanding and language.
Bryan:I would think too that the benefits are multiple in terms of you guys learn what can you realistically expect from these fleets. You don't plan in a vacuum and then it turns out like they don't arrive on a real operation and say, hey, we can't do that. Like, that's not how we do this. And then they also learn how to plan around special operations type missions.
Chris:Yeah. So it's, mutually beneficial that our SOTAC students on the course start to get, you know, those CAPES briefs, but also understanding how did those fleets employ their capabilities Mhmm. Which helps us. So when we do planning, we know those considerations. So we're not kind of finding that out in theater or in crisis when we should really just be getting down to how are we gonna solve this complex problem.
Bryan:Yeah. A question I had about the SOTAC course is when you started doing SOTAC, were folks like you who had been in the unit grandfathered, or did you all have to take SOTAC?
Chris:Yeah. So eventually, we were all grandfathered. You know, there's many of us who are still at the unit who are a part of its conception and development. So I remember the day that we whiteboarded some of this.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:So, yes, we're all grandfathered through, you know, previous experience or training. So while we have the same course code now, it's ultimately through experience. But we've put that experience into SOTAC so that, you know, the training that we wish we had on day one back then, is provided upfront.
Bryan:How do you go about generating SOTAC qualified aircrew?
Chris:Yeah. So the course takes significant resources from an already busy unit, but the end result is absolutely worth it. The course from a planning and execution perspective takes the majority of a year Because as soon as one serial ends, you're already planning for the next one. It's a six month long course. So you have six months of kind of execution and six months of preparation planning for the next serial.
Chris:And like I mentioned, flying is only part of the course. It also has fairly large modules of, planning ground tactics, professional development, cancel offcom cultural briefs. So while the flying phase draws heavily on our instructors, there's other phases that pull heavily from people that have more of a combat arms kind of experience or background as well. But we really put in the effort to make sure that this course remains world class. We don't like to cut corners on it.
Chris:And as much as possible, I keep this the force generation priority for us for the year because we see the benefits of what it produces. I have
Bryan:a couple questions. Are air crew and support trades doing extra weapons training as part of this training? If you can talk about that.
Chris:They do advanced ground handling. So not uncommon to what, may exist on the combat arm side of things. So it it's not necessarily soft specific. Mhmm. But we train for a very specific scenario.
Chris:So as you know, like aviation, you can find yourself isolated very quickly.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:So we we kinda work backwards from the worst case scenario of, let's say, a down helo or even just you have, you know, an emergency in the aircraft and you have to, you know, controlled in a controlled fashion, put the aircraft down. But what do you do at that point? And you may have to do that in a contested environment. Mhmm. And you can't always rely on, you know, a theater response to assist you or to recover you at least right away.
Bryan:Yep.
Chris:So we we work backwards from that what if scenario. So we teach air crew not just the evasion side of it, but, how do you do, you know, break contact drills? How do you navigate? You know, we reconfirm some of those series skills that you get taught, in the RCAF.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And then ultimately, how do you, protect yourself in a way that you don't become a liability to, say other ground forces that need to remain focused on the mission.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And then how do you wait out for recovery? So we we run that scenario, and all our training is based specifically on that on that kind of what if worst day scenario and we provide all the required skill sets, so that you can be successful. That's awesome.
Bryan:That is a gap in training that I felt pretty keenly when I was flying over the desert. There's probably pretty good reasons for that. Partly just it's much less relevant to our normal wheelhouse. Also, the realities of shooting down a high level aircraft, probably a lot less likely to survive frankly and get into that scenario, versus a helicopter that has a better chance of putting it down safely. But still, I think that's incredible training that must really give you some confidence when you're operating in some of those environments.
Bryan:That's really cool to hear.
Chris:It goes back to kind of our ethos that we talked about of walking the dog on all plausible scenarios and developing training that addresses that. And, you know, when you look at the contemporary operating environment, it's not a bridge too far to think that we may have a helo that ends up on the ground for one reason or another.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And you can't wish away that problem.
Bryan:Right.
Chris:So providing an experience to these, you know, young air crew and provide them a set of skills to fall back on if they ever find themselves in that situation is extremely important. And I'm sure we we would all be extremely grateful we took the time to deliver that training if that day ever happened.
Bryan:Oh, a 100%. I mean, you do enough kinetic operations and eventually just statistically, something like that can happen. I mean, I'm putting together an interview right now with Adam Raymore, who was the copilot for Blowtorch six one, which for listeners was a Chinook that was shot down in Afghanistan. And we're gonna talk about that hopefully in the next few weeks. We're gonna do an interview on that.
Bryan:It happens. So to be prepared for it, obviously, is much better than to just hope it doesn't happen.
Chris:I think it's something we we all need to, take a look at, specifically looking at the current, operating environment. You know, I think we've we've matured that training package pretty good right now. So, that's something that we're gonna continue, doing. And that's a part of, you know, professionalizing soft aviation is the fact that we deliver training to consider these plausible scenarios.
Bryan:Awesome. The other question I had is you mentioned it is a twelve month cycle, about six months execution, about six months planning. Does that mean the course is evolving fairly regularly? Because if it was just obviously a set curriculum, you know, you'd have some logistics to plan around, but mostly it wouldn't change. So I'd imagine you must be keeping things pretty current.
Chris:Yeah. So it is a fairly mature course right now. And, you know, broadly, we know what it looks like year to year, but we do tweak it based off of, and this is by design to make sure that we don't kind of stagnate and get too stuck on the way we've done things. Mhmm. We add training to it based off of, you know, things that we see that's happening, around the world.
Chris:We're not afraid to add a few days of additional training here and there to make that course more relevant, and to ensure that it it continues to adapt. So while, you know, the 80% of it is set and we know what we're doing, we we ensure that, you know, that other 20% remains flexible to add, you know, kind of last minute training that we see a need for. But the training does run, straight. There is no break. It runs for those six months straight for those students.
Chris:So it's definitely a personal commitment that you, kinda have to undertake. It's, physically demanding, mentally demanding, and you really do have to bring kind of your best self to it to be successful.
Bryan:Is it essentially a selection course?
Chris:So while it's not selection, it is pass fail. You you can fail this course if if you do not meet the standard
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:Which has happened. So it's not considered selection, but you are able to self select if you don't meet the standard.
Bryan:Okay. Where do people typically come from in terms of professional backgrounds when it comes to the folks you'll be seeing on SOTAC?
Chris:Yeah. So, in terms of background, I will talk about pilots in a minute. But broadly, if you look at the course year over year, there is no rhyme or reason to who's on that course. You know, you could have a pilot who comes from a different fleet or community. So it's not always tech aviation that we pull from.
Bryan:Okay.
Chris:This year, we have, a student who comes from a very surprising background, and there's tons of diversity on that course in terms of people's background. You know, people who did an occupation transfer to say pilot or wants to become a door gunner. So you never really know who you're gonna get. But broadly, the course, we mainly pull newly wing grads from Portage. So I'd say three quarters of the pilots, come from Portage, and the other quarter comes from, you know, multi tour pilots.
Chris:I would say the majority of those come from tac aviation, but it is not uncommon for us to have someone not from the tac aviation community, but from another fleet, across the RCAF. The other trades are flight engineers, door gunners, and, ASOPs who are the sensor operators on, Vigilance. So you could
Bryan:have, for example, f eighteen pilot who wants to work in special operations aviation and they could apply for that, do their rotary wing conversion and and come and work at four two seven.
Chris:Yeah. Absolutely. And, we've had people from the, CP one forty community do the same thing.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:So we'll coordinate that conversion course for you to, you know, come to four two seven. So, really, there's no there's no barrier to enter soft aviation. You just have to kind of have the the desire to do it and kind of go through that journey of doing that, you know, conversion training. But once you have, you know, you're in the pipeline and we'll we'll kinda take it from there.
Bryan:I know that door gunners is often a very interesting thing to a lot of people. I know within Tackhill, they're pulling door gunners. I don't know if they're still doing it this way, but they were pulling door gunners from army units. Are the door gunners within four two seven different?
Chris:So generally, they still do come from combat arms experience or background, but they do tend to stay at the unit longer just because of the additional skill sets and training that we provide them. So because they conduct SOTAC, and other training, they tend to stay at the unit longer than just maybe at a conventional tacky vision unit. You know, two years with us is not sufficient. We we need more time.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:But, yeah, we still pull from the, conventional army for that from combat arms. And, we do get great support there from the conventional side. But also we still every once in a while, we'll get someone from within cansoftcom to get trained as a door gunner.
Bryan:Okay. What kind of traits are you looking for in someone who wants to move into soft aviation?
Chris:Yeah. So number one, definitely teamwork is extremely important just because we work as a crew concept. Having overall professionalism, great attitude, learning capacity, and baseline fitness. For me, they're my traits that I look for. But on the pilot side, specifically, the kind of that attitude that you're a cansoftcom officer first, and a pilot second.
Chris:So, you know, while you will have a great career as a pilot, you are an officer in CANSOFCOM, and that comes with, you know, a certain, you know, level of responsibility and expectation as well.
Bryan:What does that look like in practice?
Chris:So when a pilot specifically comes to four two seven, that is a a career choice,
Bryan:and
Chris:you come within our CAG, our capability, advisory group. So as you may be familiar, there's the various CAG's within the RCAF. Mhmm. Soft aviation has its own keg, so it is, truly a career choice.
Bryan:A keg is a capability advisory group and is the body of expertise on each community. And it's also a group that basically we think of the pilots as belonging to when it comes to determining career management and postings.
Chris:So while you will be employed as a pilot and you'll progress as such, You know, at at some point in your career, you will give back, in terms of, you know, going to cancel off HQ, filling in staff roles, or on the operations planning side of things. So it's that expectation upfront that, you know, coming to four two seven as a pilot, the days of staying on the flight line for fifteen years straight, those those days are kinda over. And just realizing that, you know, you're an officer first in this command and that comes with a certain amount of expectation and responsibility.
Bryan:Yeah. And we've talked about this on the show before that, you know, most pilots just wanna fly. But, there are benefits to taking a ground tour as well with sometimes I don't know. I mean, it may be different within the, soft world, but generally speaking, a little more stability, a little more predictable schedule. It can be a good break for everybody for you and your family.
Chris:Yeah. And, you know, doing those jobs at the headquarters or another KansoffCom unit, it makes you a better aviator. Mhmm. So when you come back to the unit, you will be better at risk management, understanding higher commander's intent, how to integrate better with the ground force. You understand what, you know, the the government is expecting of you or out of the command.
Chris:Mhmm. So it's an extremely important part of your professional development as an officer in CanSoftcom to walk away from the flight line just for a little bit and and, you know, broaden your horizons
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And, you know, learn different perspectives through different roles.
Bryan:Yeah. I also find that people who have done those roles tend to experience maybe a little less frustration when they're back on the pointy end because they understand like, well, you know, this is why this is happening this way. This is why we can't just do it this way. You sort of get the reasons and the driving forces behind some of the decisions that are being made.
Chris:Yeah. I know every time I have left four two seven, I came back better than when I left. Mhmm. I had a better appreciation for what was happening up and out. I understand the why behind the what.
Chris:You know, at times you may not agree, but, you know, disagreement does not disloyalty. And at least it gives you that, that perspective.
Bryan:Just rounding off the discussion on SOTAC, what do you think is the dividing line between the people who are and are not successful on that course?
Chris:Yeah. So I think it's people who sometimes it comes down to teamwork. People because, you know, we we tend to draw in type A personalities, I think within kansoffcom in general, but specifically speaking to, you know, So attack, sometimes being type a personality and being a good follower in team player, they don't always go hand in hand. So at times, we we may have to develop someone a little bit more on one thing or the other, you know, provide them some teamwork skills or on the other side, you know, give them some skill sets to kind of step up and take charge into, be a leader. But, you know, what makes someone effective on course and even after course, is, you know, being adaptive and being proactive to solve problems.
Chris:If you see a problem, solve it. If you don't have the information, go seek it. But something else that I truly look for is, maintaining a good attitude and sense of humor. Some of the best, you know, people I work with at four two seven, and this is not just, you know, SOTAC students, is people that are highly competent, but they're amazing people to work with. Mhmm.
Chris:They have a great sense of humor, and they're the type of people who remain positive and are able to, professionally laugh at the situation even though it can be a little tense.
Bryan:Yeah. And honestly, from my own personal experience, that is something that can be one of the most challenging things about working in the military or in general. Like, everybody wants to be the person with a great attitude and the person who just says, okay. Let's do it. It's challenging.
Bryan:So that's not something that everyone can just do.
Chris:No. And, I I I think SOTAC really helps to instill that in the, in the students. Mhmm. Cause you'll get people who, you know, are a little bit introverted, but the course draws that out. And then people who are extroverted, we we also teach them how to be a good follower and, you know, enable someone else to take charge instead of just you that time.
Chris:And that's the real benefits of this course is, we make really good team players.
Bryan:Yeah. It's kind of funny. It's fairly obvious why an introverted person would need to learn to become outgoing in a team environment. But as you mentioned, an extroverted person, if they're not careful, they can take up all the oxygen in the room, right, and then not give space for other people to bring their ideas out or or do what they need to do.
Chris:No. And, you know, the philosophy is is that, you know, if you're looking out for that person who's to the left and right of you, you shouldn't have to worry about yourself too much. Mhmm. Because other people are looking out for you. So that's why we're really careful of who goes on course.
Chris:We try to make sure the best people are are on there so that each student is taking care of one another, you know, throughout that training.
Bryan:We talked about how you started inviting other fleets to take part in the planning phases. And so that would certainly be part of this, I would think. But how does four two seven contribute to capability development across the RCAF?
Chris:Yeah. So we do quite a bit of this actually. So because we have one capacity, but also we're a relatively small fleet or organization within, you know, the RCAF, we can be a bit of a test bed of new, say, concepts and capabilities or, you know, equipment. So often, we'll find ourselves actually leading a lot of force development efforts within 04/27. So we'll what that in practice looks like is a lot of testing and evaluation of a new equipment, before, say, tactical aviation, undertakes, you know, a large investment, which we much larger than us.
Chris:And sometimes maybe we will conceive, a new requirement, and we'll develop it, procure it, and sustain it. And then we'll share all that homework with the rest of the RCAF because it may be something they'd be interested in. So it's it's another way that we give back is on the force development side of things or the testing and evaluation side of things is that if we find something through in, you know, the soft space that we think the conventional side could really benefit from, we ensure that we're being a good partner and sharing all that kind of homework and, information.
Bryan:Awesome. Something exciting that is going on in the tactical aviation space is called NTax, which is the next tactical aviation capability set. Without getting too far into specifics, what problem is that trying to solve and what's potentially on the horizon?
Chris:Yeah. So if you look at the Griffin, it was a single fleet, that was really solving multiple problems in a way. So or filling multiple capabilities. So NTAX aims to deliver a set of fleets, more specific to roles, missions, and tasks. That is currently still, under development of specifically what are these requirements.
Chris:But what we do know is that, NTax is broken up into three phases. The first phase, we'll look at the replacement of the Griffin for 04/27, which is, excellent for us. The next phase, we'll look at a platform that would consider some of the roles, missions, and tasks that tactical aviation would do, you know, through either reconnaissance, firepower, mobility, and really start to look at, is there a set of fleets that, should kind of separate those roles, missions, and tasks onto specific platforms? And phase three continues to look at that as well as the kind of true replacement to the Griffin on the conventional side. So yeah.
Chris:So we're really looking forward to phase one of NTax. Four two seven will be the beneficiary of that, and we're really looking forward to that. Because like I mentioned earlier, we're at the point now where we are only limited by the platform that we operate. We have, brought the Griffin to kind of the edge of its limits and capabilities. Mhmm.
Chris:And now we're ready to move on to a platform that can start to fill that that, gap that we see right now.
Bryan:Yeah. It's pretty exciting. As much as the CE one forty five will be a game changer, having a bunch of different platforms, is just gonna massively expand the capabilities. And I would say as well, the ability to operate with less support from foreign assets, which will be, pretty cool as well. More of a self contained operation.
Chris:Yeah. It certainly gives us more flexibility, in option space to provide options to, our missions. As you can imagine, there's some situations where the Griffin is not suited to provide that capability, and a new platform will be able to deliver on that. So if you're looking at, you know, payload or range, this is an area that, you know, Intex phase one will deliver and enhance and improve on what, you know, the Griffin was limited by.
Bryan:That's gonna be really cool. This next question, I think it's super important. You've mentioned maintaining a work life balance that's given you a strong family life with nearly twenty years of marriage. How have you managed that while navigating such a demanding operational and leadership career?
Chris:Yeah. I think I've gotten better at it, over time. And I think really a lesson I've taken away is is that you have to create like a structure that works for you, your family, and the organization.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And for me, what that meant was, you know, drawing clear boundaries of when work starts, when work ends. Obviously, in the position I'm in, I'm always on call and always responsive. Mhmm. But, you know, from the day to day, it's, you know, always identifying what is that out at the end of the day, when is that time, so that you can go home, reinvest in your family, so that you're, you know, continuing to be, effective. So when I came in as the commanding officer, you know, I had a lot of, personal lessons learned from, you know, being a flight commander before that, being a DCO, you know, and being a line pilot.
Chris:It's really understanding what works for you and your family. And I found what works good for us is that we always dedicate that time that, you know, we have supper together. We always take time to, you know, take that evening walk to take the dogs out. And, you know, that's where we take that time to communicate and talk about our days. So we do that almost each and every day in the evening, and that's where, my wife and I get to, reconnect.
Chris:So it's important to create a structure that works for you, yourself, and the organization. When I was a flight commander, you know, there was days that I would be at work, you know, until 7PM, and I, you know, got to work at 7AM. And you ask yourself, am I still being effective here at 7PM? Like, what what am I actually doing here?
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And it's just learning when to kinda back away from, you know, just the daily battle rhythm, and to go home and recharge and reinvest in your family. Because ultimately, if your family's not healthy, the work's gonna suffer anyways. So I've been extremely fortunate to have an amazing family that supported me in my career over the last twenty years. So, yeah, that's kind of my advice and kind of what worked for me.
Bryan:Yeah. And there will be days. Right? There will be those 7AM to 7PM days even when you're in the office. Like, forget about when you're deployed or whatever when the days are crazy, but those days will come.
Bryan:But I really like what you said about kind of having a structure and a rhythm that works for your family.
Chris:Yeah. And, you know, we get amazing support from the CAF, for our families and specifically in CanceOffCom. We have great resources, because, you know, we we can deploy on a very short notice. And we don't have time to develop a family care, in the moment. It just needs to exist and be ready to go.
Chris:So there's a lot of services in, cans of comm that are standing by ready to support those scenarios. So we are really well, positioned within the command for our people to go out the door on short notice.
Bryan:Do you find that where everybody kinda understands that this is the life and you're going out the door last minute? Are people tending to, like, step in and help each other out? If your friends away, you're helping out their family kind of thing. Is it that kind of an environment, or is it more like you're leaning on resources like the MFRC and things like that?
Chris:It's really a a balance of both, really. I know this is kind of the truth across, cansoftcom, but specifically, at four two seven, the subunits, they have very high, morale, and they support each other. So when, you know, one of the subunits gets deployed or is away for an extended period of time, they're there to support, each other's families, whether it's, you know, clearing driveways in the winter, supporting the spouse who's back home. It's you know, no task is, too small in that regards of supporting. So, we're really grateful at four two seven in terms of the people and how close they are.
Chris:A lot of the subunits hang out with each other on evenings and weekends. The family network, they all know each other. So everyone really does step in. But there are certain, cases where the formal system is the better way to go to leverage those services.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure. That's awesome to hear that there's a good balance going on there. And I think it's a sign of a very healthy unit that despite being like extremely busy and operationally focused, there's still also that focus on taking care of each other. I know that sometimes it gets to a point where people are so burnt out from just trying to operate and take care of their own family that that can fall to the wayside.
Bryan:So it's great to hear that you guys have a healthy environment going on. So what does it mean to you personally to command a unit you've spent so much of your career in?
Chris:Yeah. So I've been privileged to spend so much of my time, within one organization. So even though I was posted outside of four two seven and KansoffCom on two occasions, I was always supporting its equities in one form, or another. I've dedicated my entire career to making this unit as, great as possible and to enable it. So it's really been a privilege now to be the, commanding officer.
Chris:How do you
Bryan:find that your perspective has changed from arriving as a new pilot to now being the CO?
Chris:Yeah. So I think you feel it as a subunit commander, but even more so now as the commanding officer, just how flat of an organization KansoffCom is, and that's by design. You are extremely close to the strategic level. Like, my direct commander is commander at CanSoftcom, and then it only goes up from there to the CDS. Mhmm.
Chris:So it's very quick how your actions or capability or your mission analysis, or responses make it to that level. Mhmm. So you really feel it as the commanding officer, that level of responsibility because of you don't have those additional, layers to filter, you know, your responses, your activities, your analysis in terms of, can you support a mission? So you really do feel that as a commanding officer.
Bryan:I would imagine that kind of cuts both ways in a good way as well, though, that you might have less layers to work through if there's something that's not being met right now or a new, I don't know, a capability gap in equipment or something like that that you could maybe more quickly get response time.
Chris:Yeah. But that ability comes with a lot of responsibility to make making sure you kind of communicate that requirement in a way that is coherent at that level, as well. Mhmm. So you have to make sure that if you're, requesting, you know, a new type of equipment or let's say, permission to conduct a certain activity, you have to basically fill that gap that would otherwise exist in terms of communication. Yeah.
Chris:Because you're communicating that directly to a commander. So it just comes with that. It goes back to that being a good custodian of their organization and understanding your role, and you're really filling that gap that would otherwise exist. But when you do or when you are able to, you know, bring forward, like, a good initiative and it is supported, it's extremely rewarding to to see that kinda come through because you don't have a lot of those layers that would otherwise exist.
Bryan:Yeah. And that's interesting too. I hadn't thought about that as I was thinking my way through this, but you basically have to do your own filtering because otherwise, you'd be firing things like normally, let's say, oh, you know what, we've had 10 good ideas this month, let's fire them up and like three of them are gonna keep getting all the way to the top. But because of the flat nature of the structure as you mentioned, if you fire 10 things up, 10 things are going up and that can be a lot.
Chris:Yeah. It all goes back to making sure that the things you're asking for are the things that will deliver on higher commanders intent. Mhmm. So it it can be novel and creative, but it needs to be in line with with the vision and intent of the direction we wanna go.
Bryan:In your position as a CEO, and I imagine this has evolved over time. At the same time, there's probably an element of this that has stayed the same. What kind of leader do you strive to be in that role?
Chris:Yeah. So I strive to be, relevant in that. I try to be aware of the issues that our people are facing. I do this in a few different ways. I walk, the unit lines as much as I can.
Chris:You know, I go and I hang out and sit down with the maintainers, and the other support elements at the unit to hear it right from them. What what are the things that are that are working, which is equally as important so that we know to tackle a problem in a similar fashion down the road. But it's also to hear the potential negative feedback as well so that we can address those issues. The other way is, you know, staying in the cockpit. So I maintain my full kind of currencies in everything the unit does.
Chris:So I get to go out there and experience the training and the associated risk that our air crew take. So it goes back to that being kind of relevant and incredible as a commanding officer.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:So that people know I'm I'm hearing what they have to say. And I'm experiencing the things that they are experiencing. And that makes me a more effective adviser to the commander as well because I can better inform what kind of the ground truth is in terms of, you know, whether it's the culture or it's the risk that we're, accepting as well. And I would say just lastly for me, I'm I'm trying to be a commanding officer who, you know, advances the professionalization of soft aviation and leave the unit in a better place, when I leave it. So just to know that we move that yardstick and that we've, professionalized this organization or enterprise that we built over the last twenty years.
Bryan:That's awesome. It's a big task too. It's a lot of responsibility to take on. And when it comes to special operations and special operations aviation, there's a big heritage to respect and you're upholding a reputation. It's a lot to take on.
Bryan:It's really cool to hear about.
Chris:It's a big responsibility, but, I've enjoyed every moment of it. You know, I've been with this organization for, sixteen years now and I'm still enjoying it to this day.
Bryan:Looking ahead, what excites you most about the future of soft aviation in Canada?
Chris:I think the fact that we are finally maturing as an organization, and we truly are getting the the support that we need to develop it and bring it to the next level. You know, we're seeing that through end tax phase one, being a priority and that so that we're gonna be able to deliver kind of that next generation of capability. I'm really excited for kind of the new generation of soft aviators, because they're they're gonna be resourced with the things that, you know, I never had when when I got to the flight line.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:In terms of, platform resources, support to enable the mission, and, being an organic CANsoftComm unit from, like, a culture perspective is is really going to be exciting for the next generation of of aircrew. So, I'm really envious of them. And, I think it's a really exciting times, not just, you know, within cans of com, but within CAF. When we look at all the platforms that are being kind of life cycled right now, it's, it's really exciting to, consider employment within the CAF.
Bryan:Yeah. I I completely agree. There's so much happening right now that is super exciting with new platforms. Like, this is a really, really neat time for people who are joining the air force. They're gonna fly, like, cutting edge platforms.
Bryan:A lot of us of our vintage flew, you know, dated aircraft, frankly. Dated aircraft or aircraft that were maybe not perfectly suited to the task, but we you know, as professionals, we make them work. But they're gonna be operating in purpose built modern platforms, and I think that's gonna be really cool.
Chris:Yeah. And if you think about it, the, the Griffin is one of the oldest fleets in the RCF right now, which is really, interesting to consider how quickly we're modernizing, within the CAF. Mhmm.
Bryan:For someone listening who wants to end up in a unit like four two seven, what should they be focusing on today?
Chris:Yeah. I think the first step would be, you know, finding the link on the website to the Cance Offcom recruiting site. That's, that's kind of the first step in submitting that NOI.
Bryan:And anyone this is relevant to should already probably know this, but for the listeners, NOI is notice of intent. So in this case, the notice of intent to apply for Cance Offcom.
Chris:There's some amazing opportunities not just within 04/27, but CanceOffCom as a whole, you know, long term, employment opportunities and short term employment opportunities, as well. But I think for someone who wants to be a part of something kind of bigger than themselves, being a part as a tight cohesive professional team, I think, you know, they're the traits that we're looking for, but it's also the value proposition as well. So for someone who wants to come to kansoffcom, I think it's just, you know, having the courage to, you know, apply and, you know, bring that expertise to, to the command. And like I said, there's great opportunities, short, medium, and long term. And, I really encourage, you know, anybody in CAF to at least spend some time within our, community.
Chris:It gives you a really different perspective and it'll make you kind of a better serving member.
Bryan:Now I just wanna quickly clarify for listeners. You talk about the recruiting website for cansoftcom. That's for members already in the military. Right?
Chris:Yeah. That's correct. So we pull from the other l ones.
Bryan:Every now and then, the terms l one and l two pop up on this show, and we've never really taken the time to explain them. I reached out to Chris to get a good explanation. And, basically, it is a term to explain the organizational hierarchy within the military. For example, l zero would be the chief of defense staff. They refer to the vice chief of defense staff as l 0.5, although I suspect that might be informal.
Bryan:L ones would be the main branches of service. So the RCAF, the Royal Canadian Navy, the Army, and CANsoftCom. So it's basically just layers of hierarchy. So for example, four two seven is an l two within cansoftcom and an l three within the RCAF. Hopefully, that's clear as mud.
Chris:So, generally, there are, minimum time requirements that you need to have, you know, within your respective, trade or occupation before applying. So as long as you meet the criteria of that position that you're interested within cansoftcom, then you have a valid application profile that can go through. But, yeah, we we do not draw from the street in the majority of cases. It's, people with previous experience and who are already trained within their, you know, expertise.
Bryan:Mhmm. So final question. When you look back on your career so far, what are you most proud of?
Chris:Honestly, I think it's being able to work with the world class professionals, I've worked with over my career. And, you know, it's a bit of a cliche, but also supporting my country. You know, I've been in this command for, sixteen years. I've worked with some amazing people, inside and outside of CAF. I worked with great partners and allies, all like minded people who are focused on delivering, tactical excellence.
Chris:So that's really been the highlight of my career is just working with the people. And, you know, working with highly skilled, individuals and being able to fly in aircraft in a way that is so precise in advance in a in a very high standard as well. So from a flying perspective, it's been very fulfilling as well.
Bryan:Awesome. Okay, Chris. That is gonna do it for today. I'm really glad we're finally able to put this together. It's interesting to navigate putting together an interview with anyone in soft and this has been really, really rewarding.
Bryan:So thank you so much. We're very thankful that you've given us some of your time. So thank you.
Chris:Yeah, Brian. It's been, excellent, and thanks for, reaching out. And it's been a great time to sit down with you and kind of go over soft aviation and, kind of what's the next bound for us. So thank you very much for having me today.
Bryan:Yeah. It's our pleasure. Fly safe.
Chris:Yep. Thanks, Brian.
Bryan:Okay. That wraps up our super rare peek behind the modern operations of four two seven Squadron. I'd like to tease that down the road, we're actually sitting down with one of the pioneers of special operations aviation in Canada, colonel Todd O'Malley. He was actually the commandant of Moose Jaw when I went through as a student. But for next week, we'll be sitting down with none other than Snowbird one, major Mate Machhata.
Bryan:For the first two weeks, we'll be talking about his time flying f eighteens in the RCAF, and then a look at what it takes to graduate from test pilot school, as well as what operating as a test pilot in the RCAF looks like. And then, of course, the snowbirds are on their final season with the Canadair CT one fourteen tutor. So we sat down to talk about what it takes to be snowbird one, as well as an in-depth look at just how well they've honed their craft and what it's like to operate at such a high level in this amazing airplane. Tune in for a ton of insights into what it takes to fly with the snowbirds and just how intricate that skill is. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show?
Bryan:Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and Mission Aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts.
Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four.
Bryan:We're shutting down all four engines.