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Marc Savatsky, Ray Hurteau, and Dan Rubin open up and discuss their own deals, budgets, and mistakes every Tuesday.
Not guru content. The stuff that decides whether a project makes money: what a triple decker really costs to build now, the retroactive Newton tax bill that landed on unsuspecting condo buyers, the helical pile surprise that cut a deal's IRR from 70% to 40%, the eleven-week-old demo company doing $6K a week against a $20K burn. They read their own numbers on air, including the ugly ones.
A typical week is some mix of: a breakdown of one of their active projects (an 1874 adaptive reuse in Amesbury, a Dorchester three-family held fourteen years, a waste and demo business), a guest who does one thing extremely well which include zoning attorneys, architects, labor lawyers, energy consultants and brokers. Ray's Multifamily Minute on the news that actually moves the needle, and a round of Overrated / Underrated / Appropriately Rated.
Heavy on Greater Boston and New England, because real estate is hyperlocal and pretending otherwise is how people lose money. Useful anywhere the same problems show up: permitting, capital stacks, subs, tenants, and the gap between what the spreadsheet says and what the building does.
For investors, developers, GCs, agents, and anyone still holding a W-2 while they figure out deal one.
Co-hosted by Ray Hurteau, Dan Rubin (Instagram: @rhinvestgroup), and Marc Savatsky (Instagram: @choose_boston)
Follow the Real Estate Addicts Podcast on YouTube: @RealEstateAddicts
[0:00|0.0] All right, keep going. So what about it?
[0:10|10.0] Are we good live?
[0:11|11.2] Yeah.
[0:12|12.2] So I was saying a test of a Rivian pickup
[0:14|14.1] in a Cybertruck over the weekend and-
[0:16|16.4] Why didn
[0:17|17.4] Why didn't go full interview mode?
[0:18|18.2] Just talk like we were talking.
[0:19|19.9] Well, I don't know.
[0:21|21.4] Anyway, I think Cybertruck a lot,
[0:23|24.0] but my.
[0:24|24.8] My problem is that I think it's like a political statement.
[0:27|27.1] No, that's not to a job sale.
[0:29|29.4] No, that's.
[0:30|30.2] I think particularly for the Cybertruck.
[0:31|31.9] It's also, I think it's terribly.
[0:35|35.2] Yeah.
[0:37|37.9] I think, feel like you're my-
[0:38|39.0] Yeah, yeah.
[0:40|40.6] Good call.
[0:41|41.6] All right, here, just give a little twist.
[0:43|43.9] Did you mind giving a little twist there, Nick?
[0:45|45.5] Appreciate it.
[0:46|46.5] Hire him.
[0:47|47.5] Yeah.
[0:48|48.5] He's a little lower than his, like, red chin level's good.
[0:51|51.6] All right, there we go.
[0:52|52.6] Yeah, you're hired.
[0:53|53.6] Perfect.
[0:54|54.6] Yeah.
[0:55|55.6] Yeah.
[0:56|56.6] Seein' how the sauce is just made here.
[0:59|59.4] Let's properly introduce our guests and start this story.
[1:02|62.6] And talk about Tesla and how you're a
[1:10|70.3] Eugene Luntz fan now.
[1:13|73.3] Hey.
[1:14|74.3] He's swingin' Republican.
[1:15|75.3] I agree with you that it's ugly.
[1:46|106.3] and a pickup, but the pickup, is nice because it's like a full
[1:48|108.9] size pickup, it's not.
[1:49|109.9] Like a smaller pickup, like the Rivian people trying to make
[1:52|112.3] the push now to have a Tesla put like a true SUV out.
[1:55|115.9] And I saw some like mockups of the, of the concepts.
[1:58|118.3] Yeah. See where it goes.
[2:00|120.4] I mean, if they can make the cyber
[2:16|136.0] model, whatever the factory space that had built for like the model S or whatever to model so that
[2:52|172.8] on demo
[3:22|202.8] or is it like fable? Just.
[3:52|232.8] Well, that was like
[3:57|237.9] Steve is an entrepreneur, a developer, sales professional.
[4:02|242.2] And now I'm masked well.
[4:04|244.3] Yes, so I think.
[4:06|246.0] Yeah.
[4:06|246.4] Yeah. Well, I, you guys have me on.
[4:08|248.0] I know we've been trying to to get some time on the calendar to do this, but.
[4:12|252.2] As Mark said, Steve, the Tory, you know, kind of zoom out and give you a little bit of background on who I am and where I come.
[4:22|262.8] 15 years and my development business Alpine Property Group, my business partner came to me about a
[4:29|269.4] about a decade or so ago and was like, Hey, and he also was in software sales. And he's like, I think we
[4:33|273.0] have an opportunity to take a stab at doing a development on multifamily. Want to give it a go?
[4:37|277.8] I'm like, sure. Literally had no idea about anything. And so we ended up acquiring a property
[4:44|284.9] in Newton Center. It was the two family that we converted to condos.
[4:48|288.8] I thought you were going to say it was the summit and that was your first project.
[4:51|291.2] It's like, oh, you guys crushed it.
[4:52|292.5] No, I mean, it's funny. We were like, oh yeah, we'll learn that the construction
[4:56|296.8] side of the business and the GC that we use at the time was like,
[5:00|300.5] you do not want to be in the construction side of the business. Like,
[5:03|303.9] be the guy that goes and finds the deals, acquires the property, puts the money together.
[5:08|308.3] And we're like, no, we want to learn. I'll never forget. He sent me to National Lumber to go get
[5:11|311.8] get nails or screws or whatever it was. And I go in there and I was like, oh, I need,
[5:17|317.3] I need 10s.
[5:18|318.3] They're like 10 by what?
[5:19|319.8] I'm like, straight 10s.
[5:20|320.8] They're like, it does not make sense.
[5:22|322.8] But none of it is.
[5:23|323.8] We knew nothing about anything.
[5:25|325.2] But
[5:55|355.2] Yeah.
[5:55|355.7] It's Aaron Butz, you know?
[5:57|357.1] That's a, that also just to go back to the summit,
[5:59|359.7] you guys crushed that build.
[6:00|360.8] That is one of beautiful building.
[6:02|362.2] The beacon.
[6:02|362.7] The beacon.
[6:10|370.4] Me too.
[6:11|371.3] But I described it to you, and you knew what it was.
[6:13|373.0] I knew exactly, yeah.
[6:14|374.1] I live in Newton, so I knew where it was.
[6:15|375.3] It was the one that set all the comps that are unachievable by everyone else.
[6:18|378.7] Yeah.
[6:19|379.3] So how do you do that?
[6:21|381.9] Tell us the a secret song.
[6:22|383.0] On overbudging.
[6:25|385.3] and put a lot of brick in the building.
[6:27|387.6] It's, it's funny.
[6:28|388.1] So, you know, as I said, that first project we did about a decade ago.
[6:31|391.5] Was, was
[6:35|395.4] and that market's always been good to us, that market's always been good to us, right?
[6:37|397.8] I feel like it's a little more insulated than the macro market in Massachusetts.
[6:42|403.0] So we saw, we finished, the 16 unit building in Rosendale and the Sarcos team was our realtor
[6:50|410.4] for that.
[6:51|411.4] and we want to make an introduction to this gentleman that has spent the last three years permitting
[6:56|416.7] the beacon.
[6:57|417.7] He's an older gentleman and he just wants to, he didn't think it was going to be three
[7:02|422.1] years to make this, a permit.
[7:04|424.5] Or a thousand bucks a foot on sellout.
[7:06|426.1] Yeah, exactly.
[7:07|427.1] He was doing his rental building.
[7:08|428.5] Oh, yeah.
[7:09|429.5] Wow.
[7:10|430.5] That would have been aggressive.
[7:11|431.5] Like we love Newton, let's-a-do-it-we love the project.
[7:14|434.7] But, you know, as you guys know, I hate to say it, but the proverbial phase, time is
[7:20|440.1] money.
[7:21|441.1] Yeah.
[7:22|442.1] So we bought it with a permit in hand and, yeah, furthermore, we made a condition of
[7:25|445.0] closing that we want the foundation in before we close.
[7:28|448.7] So we had a small call-it-a-two-month window where we were like.
[7:32|452.9] All right, well your architectural plans are all set up for centralized HVAC because
[7:39|459.5] it was an apartment building.
[7:40|460.7] So we had to re-engineer all that on the fly.
[7:44|465.0] How many units was it?
[7:45|466.0] Thirty-four, this is a 70.000 square foot building.
[7:49|469.0] How many affordable you have to do there?
[7:50|470.7] Six.
[7:51|471.7] Okay.
[7:52|472.7] What's funny is when we did Lynn, we took out all of the, there was nothing centralized.
[7:56|477.0] There was only one like air circulation thing.
[7:59|479.7] And we thought to ourselves, why would we have this one giant unit when there's potential
[8:03|483.8] for like cross, you know, cross smell contamination, right?
[8:07|487.1] Well, they wanted to do a centralized ERV on the roof.
[8:10|490.3] And outside of 50,000 dollars for the equipment
[8:14|494.7] and we'll also do fire rain and shacks
[8:17|497.4] throughout the building and the operational costs on them.
[8:20|500.3] And the fact that the smells could like cross.
[8:23|503.0] Fair point.
[8:23|503.9] I mean like everything else, life is all trade-offs.
[8:26|506.8] And so if you do individual ERVs in this example,
[8:29|509.7] like now you have a lot of penetrations
[8:32|512.1] on your exterior wall.
[8:34|514.8] But I do think that the bigger point
[8:36|517.0] that MEP engineers don't get about that trade-off
[8:39|519.8] is that when you. You go to a centralized system, you go to a certain sophistication
[8:43|523.5] and size of subcontractor. Yes, like to see sub can install a Panasonic ERV in a ceiling
[8:49|529.9] in a closet. Great. You want to do like a cooling tower on the roof centralized HVAC
[8:54|535.0] r pipe system like you better find like a nice union contractor who does that
[8:58|538.5] every day all day.
[8:59|539.5] Oh, Johnson.
[9:00|540.5] Yeah, we bought $800 drone units for every unit, threw them in the, in these above the
[9:08|548.4] ceiling in the closets and called it a day.
[9:11|551.3] And yes, the architect didn't like that we had additional penetrations.
[9:14|554.3] Well, we also, we all, yeah, there was a whole building design thing and not to get into
[9:19|559.9] that point, but yes, we found a louvered covers outside the color match to the
[9:25|565.8] siding. So you can't even tell.
[9:27|567.0] All right.
[9:28|568.0] So the beacon, some people think it's the summit.
[9:30|570.2] It's really the beacon.
[9:31|572.0] Some people.
[9:32|573.0] It's people.
[9:33|574.0] Beautiful job there.
[9:34|575.0] Thank you.
[9:35|576.0] Appreciate it.
[9:36|577.0] And then more recently, it seems like you've pivoted your energy and AI credits
[9:38|579.0] credits to Massed Well.
[9:39|580.0] Yes.
[9:40|581.0] So, you know, the kind of parallel story to all this is that my co-founder, Carlos Ferreira
[9:46|587.0] had GC'd, I'd say 90% of my Alpine Property Group projects.
[9:50|591.0] So I met about a decade or so ago.
[9:53|594.0] And I want to say it was about four years ago, Carlos started focusing on like gauge
[10:01|601.5] steel frame fabrication, right.
[10:04|604.1] And you know, it's interesting.
[10:05|605.8] He came to me four years ago and was like, you know, it was right around the time we're
[10:09|609.5] starting to get ready to think about building the beacon.
[10:13|613.2] And he said to me, Hey, why don't you build that and like gauge steel?
[10:15|615.9] And I said, well, you know, that's all well and good, but I got a $30 million construction
[10:20|620.6] loan.
[10:21|621.6] I have investors to answer to.
[10:22|622.6] stickh with the devil I know, which is traditional site build stick, right?
[10:26|626.8] But in the background, as I was going through the beacon project, I started
[10:31|631.0] diving into the benefits of like H-Deal.
[10:33|633.7] And, you know, I feel like in a lot of ways, the way we build in
[10:37|637.7] Massachusetts and the New England market is very antiquated.
[10:42|642.1] Um, you know, I I look for all California's pros and cons, I look
[10:46|646.6] towards some of the things that they've been doing from a technology
[10:49|649.5] and construction standpoint.
[10:50|650.7] And I do think that in a lot of ways they're more advanced and able to think outside.
[10:55|655.2] So walk us through it.
[10:56|656.2] I've always heard it called structural stud.
[10:58|658.4] Is that something or even heavy gauge metal framing?
[11:02|662.2] So we do like gauge metal framing.
[11:05|665.4] So if you took a piece of like gauge steel and piece of lumber, just
[11:10|670.5] let's just call it two by, by four, whatever.
[11:13|673.3] That steel is going to be upwards of 50, 60% stronger than the
[11:17|677.1] piece of lighter.
[11:18|678.1] Yeah.
[11:19|679.1] Yeah.
[11:20|680.1] Yeah.
[11:21|681.1] Yeah.
[11:23|683.1] Yeah.
[11:24|684.1] a
[11:25|685.1] Yeah.
[11:26|686.1] Yeah.
[11:27|687.1] Yeah.
[11:47|707.1] purchase the property. So we're like, let's just roll with what we got.
[11:49|709.8] You would have had a submittal, a set of shop drawings with an engineer stamp on it to give
[11:54|714.6] to your engineer of record for the base building. And you may have been able to get rid of
[11:59|719.4] certain bearing elements because a lot of these walls become, you know, instead of you can make
[12:04|724.4] a partition wall, a bearing wall. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's, wait, you know, I think the
[12:09|729.1] challenge that a lot of developers, myself included, kind, kind of get caught up in is
[12:13|733.1] is what's the cost of lumber?
[12:14|734.8] What's the cost of steel?
[12:15|735.9] But when you really start to see the benefits
[12:18|738.2] of steel is its scale.
[12:19|739.8] Typically five storey buildings and above, right?
[12:22|742.6] Because there's certain things you get away
[12:24|744.1] with not having to do from a fire stopping perspective
[12:26|746.9] from that type of stuff.
[12:28|748.3] And then the baseline is you have
[12:30|750.2] a non-rebusable frame structure
[12:31|751.7] that's never gonna rot.
[12:32|752.8] It's never gonna warp, right?
[12:34|754.7] Think about-
[12:35|755.6] I mean, the wood comes warped.
[12:36|757.0] That's amazing.
[12:37|757.8] That's amazing.
[12:38|758.6] Yeah, right.
[12:39|759.6] But you know, this is,
[12:41|761.6] Carlos started that four years ago.
[13:11|791.6] is, no BS, is, you know, guys that do remodels and additions and now added a little tab on
[13:19|799.8] their website that says, we do ADUs now, right?
[13:22|802.5] Right.
[13:23|803.5] You don't really.
[13:24|804.5] Not to say that it's all that complicated, but we wanted to build an entity in a business
[13:28|809.0] that was purpose-built for ADUs, single families, and small multi-families, and that's
[13:32|812.8] is Massdwell.
[13:33|813.8] Well, what I really like about.
[13:35|815.4] which you guys do, to blow up, here you go here, but being a developer is hard because
[13:40|820.5] is you have to look at a piece of land
[13:42|822.5] and use your imagination, figure out like,
[13:44|824.3] what, what can you want this land
[13:45|825.5] And like by and large what you guys have done is almost give a menu like you're at a restaurant and it's like well
[13:52|832.5] Oh, you took the light gauge
[14:04|844.4] framing like in concept yes and married it with yes prefab
[14:10|850.1] ADUs, single families and small mother.
[14:13|853.9] And there's like vanilla chocolate,
[14:15|855.0] straw, and AI on the website.
[14:18|858.1] - like you don't even have to take your tape measure.
[14:19|859.9] It seems like, I mean you talk about it.
[14:21|861.7] You showed it to me, I was floored.
[14:23|863.4] What satellite imagery?
[14:24|864.2] It was like the approval process.
[14:26|866.2] Like how does it work with inspections and all that?
[14:29|869.9] So I'll set the stage as far as I guess,
[14:40|880.1] At the national level, what's the number everyone uses?
[14:43|883.0] There's 4 million homes that shortfall, whatever.
[14:45|885.6] But if you really look into the market world in Massachusetts,
[14:49|889.3] it's openly stated that we got to build 222,000 units in the next 10 years as well.
[14:54|894.3] Yeah, never gonna happen.
[14:54|894.9] Ironically, permits pulled year to date is the lowest it's been in 16 years.
[14:59|899.6] Yeah, I didn't even think about that. So, you know, I thought of the opportunity there and I'm like, Carlos had purchased land in Woonsocket, Rhode Island, where, you know, it's.
[15:11|911.6] A larger factory that he was going to build and have it just be the hub for steel, like a steel fabrication. And, you know, we started talking about the opportunity.
[15:20|920.6] where we're going to do.
[15:21|921.6] So we're going to do our like HCL fabrication, but.
[15:25|925.6] We're not going to use the entire factory floor for it.
[15:28|928.4] So let's figure out the path around.
[15:31|931.2] Mass.
[15:32|932.2] Well.
[15:33|933.2] So what I- I wanted to have happen because I am a firm believer that for me in ADU, you know,
[15:37|937.5] for the state, the largest you can have is 900 square feet.
[15:40|940.5] Okay.
[15:41|941.5] Just going to spend sizing.
[15:42|942.5] stay low or require. Different towns are different, but call it 350 square feet.
[15:47|947.3] All right. Micro units.
[15:55|955.7] 50% of your gross square footage of your primary
[15:58|958.9] you have a 5,000 square foot square feet.
[16:01|961.6] Got it smaller, but some municipalities have like
[16:04|964.6] yes to their own and made their way.
[16:06|966.0] R
[16:16|976.9] bedrooms and a cooking space.
[16:19|979.2] Yeah.
[16:20|980.0] And to just go back to Dan's question.
[16:22|982.6] So I think didn't the state pass statewide?
[16:25|985.6] It's allowed.
[16:26|986.5] As of February of 2025, that went into place in Massachusetts.
[16:32|992.5] So it overrides or supersedes any local municipalities rules?
[16:36|996.5] It's a state mandate.
[16:38|998.5] Andiasco that was kind of the first level of this.
[16:40|1000.5] How do we unlock it for the state?
[16:42|1002.5] It's by right now.
[16:44|1004.5] Up to 900 square feet.
[16:46|1006.5] I have so many questions.
[16:47|1007.5] And does it happen to be attached or detached?
[16:49|1009.5] Either.
[16:50|1010.5] Single story, two stories, doesn't matter.
[16:52|1012.5] Wait till you get that.
[16:53|1013.5] It can be both.
[16:54|1014.5] So the nice thing is if you did a two floor with a garage, the garage does not count
[16:59|1019.2] towards the ADU square footage and you can just put the living space.
[17:02|1022.7] Oh, wow.
[17:03|1023.7] That's cool.
[17:04|1024.7] There's a lot of different ways that you can add value and setbacks, right?
[17:07|1027.9] Yeah, yes.
[17:08|1028.9] It goes to the most permissible and for a lot of towns, they have an accessory.
[17:13|1033.0] Accessory setback, a shed.
[17:15|1035.9] So you can go five feet.
[17:18|1038.0] That's super interesting.
[17:19|1039.8] So it doesn't go like front yard, side yard, rear yard.
[17:22|1042.2] You have the, you have the set front, side, and rear, but if the town, which I would say,
[17:28|1048.2] is upwards of 90% of 90% of the work and have an accessory structure setback, it goes to
[17:34|1054.0] that. And.
[17:52|1072.2] I think the city of Boston may have reached Boston. Boston's a laggard in this, right? Yeah, they have their own fief-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f.
[17:59|1079.2] Yeah. And they're working on it. I met with the secretary of housing a couple months ago and they're laser focused on more unlocks around this. So one of the-
[18:09|1089.2] Well, they do have ADUs. They allow them, but they seem very, very strict.
[18:12|1092.2] In Boston? Yes.
[18:13|1093.2] So I am curious-
[18:14|1094.2] But I saw it super-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-
[18:16|1096.2] I am curious how the state rules-
[18:17|1097.2] They do, but like Boston got like-
[18:19|1099.2] The enabling act of 1956.
[18:21|1101.2] exception around it, I think with the promise that, that they were going to develop their own.
[18:25|1105.2] Of course.
[18:25|1105.3] a different from every other municipality in town in Massachusetts, because we have our own, they all
[18:33|1113.7] work under whatever chapter of the of the zoning code for Massachusetts. We have the enabling act
[18:38|1118.6] 1956. And that stipulates like that we have a zoning board, we have our own. So like just like
[18:44|1124.5] everything else were after. Yeah, but also like different process.
[18:51|1131.2] said it always bothered me because like, go back to the what was the policy called where
[18:55|1135.1] you could take over a blighted piece of land next to your property for $1 in the 70s. It
[19:00|1140.0] was like the yard sale yard sale. Okay. So so they they have this yard sale thing back
[19:04|1144.8] when properties were overgrown and disgusting. And you could they'd be like here take it
[19:08|1148.6] Steve it's right next to just mode the yard.
[19:10|1150.8] Well, they have a process you had to apply and they had a process.
[19:15|1155.1] But where I'm going with this is at the end of the day, you can't build on it.
[19:17|1157.9] Yeah, they would deem restrictions on all of them.
[19:19|1160.0] Yeah, because you buy for a dollar,
[19:21|1161.5] and I
[19:28|1168.6] put a three family up and he'd make money on the purchase.
[19:30|1170.9] Well, it wasn't a forward thinking proposal, right?
[19:34|1174.8] No one thought at the time the city was shrinking,
[19:37|1177.7] and like you said, there was wine everywhere.
[19:39|1179.6] So why would they care if you put a house on it?
[19:40|1181.0] Because they just, no one can think 10 years ahead.
[19:43|1183.9] Everyone thinks something's impossible.
[19:45|1185.6] I mean-
[19:46|1186.4] Who cares?
[19:47|1187.2] goes for ADU. There's a distinction in Boston, or at least there was, between a, like, a
[19:51|1191.8] three family and a two family with an ADU. And if you didn't own or occupy it when you
[19:57|1197.1] got that zoning relief, then, it wasn't a legal dwelling-
[20:00|1200.6] Right.
[20:01|1201.6] bSo that was crazy.
[20:03|1203.6] You know, it's interesting, because-
[20:04|1204.8] Tangent.
[20:05|1205.8] You know, you're talking about the creativity. So we just got awarded a RFP from the town
[20:10|1210.9] of Sudbury, and it's a very interesting story. So town of Sud, in Sudbury has four parcels
[20:16|1216.4] of land that they have, let's say, deteriorated families on inside of residential zone neighborhoods.
[20:24|1224.7] The Sudbury affordable housing wanted to tear those four properties down and build four
[20:32|1232.1] duplexes. So they're doubling their density from four to eight. Well, all the neighbors
[20:36|1236.8] in the town were like, no, this is a single family zone neighborhood. So kudos and hats
[20:41|1241.7] off to town of Sudbury. They're like, all righ,t we're going to pivot from that. We're
[20:44|1244.8] We're going to tear these down and we're going to build four single families with attached
[20:49|1249.2] ADUs.
[20:50|1250.2] Good for them.
[20:51|1251.2] Nice.
[20:52|1252.2] Right?
[20:53|1253.2] Right?
[20:54|1254.2] And we ended up being so bitter for it because here's the thing.
[20:57|1257.5] Public job, you got to pay wage.
[20:59|1259.9] So that project never gets off the ground if you are doing prevailing wage on traditional
[21:05|1265.3] stick built on site.
[21:06|1266.9] So we're only paying prevailing wage on the site work component of it and the button
[21:11|1271.1] up work when we deliver the modules.
[21:12|1272.8] Fascinating.
[21:13|1273.3] So we were able to work within their budget,
[21:15|1275.8] do it offsite, condense their time and value, right?
[21:18|1278.9] I mean,
[21:19|1279.7] offer predictability, timeline.
[21:22|1282.4] So Sud
[21:37|1297.2] Yes.
[21:38|1298.2] Yes.
[22:07|1327.2] so many inspectors that were like,
[22:08|1328.8] I don't want to touch it.
[22:09|1329.8] And how do I know they do it?
[22:10|1330.8] I think it was also like the coordinate.
[22:12|1332.5] I would consider it if you had space,
[22:15|1335.4] but like the coordination to like do modular in the city
[22:19|1339.2] is like shutting streets down and like all that.
[22:22|1342.9] Like if youB can even get the truck down the street.
[22:25|1345.0] So we just delivered one down a Yarmouth
[22:28|1348.0] and it's important.
[22:30|1350.5] I'll set the stage for what we can and can't do, right?
[22:32|1352.6] So our factory is set up eight stage production line
[22:36|1356.0] where we can basically produce one module a day off the production line.
[22:40|1360.2] So a module to us is 14 wide by 40 long.
[22:44|1364.2] So 560 square feet.
[22:45|1365.7] That's big.
[22:46|1366.4] Do the math on what that means if you're producing five days a year.
[22:51|1371.1] It's like 160,000 square feet.
[22:54|1374.4] That's amazing.
[22:56|1376.2] Our thesis was we're not going to get hit with the pushback that developers are going
[23:02|1382.4] of give us from saying, hey, listen, let us build your 70 unit building and like HDO.
[23:06|1386.3] I know you've never done it before.
[23:07|1387.9] Right.
[23:08|1388.5] Our ADU buyer is looking for something that looks great.
[23:13|1393.4] It's built at the right, right price point and it's going to last for years.
[23:16|1396.4] Right.
[23:16|1396.7] So our bottom line price is I haven't seen anyone more competitive than us.
[23:20|1400.9] And the reason we can do that is because we're building in a factory that we own.
[23:23|1403.6] Right.
[23:24|1404.2] Versus, you know, there's a lot of modular.
[23:26|1406.6] Oh, there's a lot of companies out here that say they do modular, but they're the
[23:30|1410.0] sales and marketing person that leverages the factory in Pennsylvania or factory in West.
[23:34|1414.3] The factory builds, they go sell for the factory.
[23:36|1416.4] Exactly. Right. Which has its place, right? Because you're not dealing with all the overhead
[23:40|1420.6] that we're dealing with. But, you know, so owning the, you know, kind of production line ourselves
[23:49|1429.2] and being able to prioritize what we want, when we want is super helpful. And then you
[23:54|1434.8] the fact that an ADU for us is typically one module, sometimes two, right? If you're going
[23:58|1438.8] to do a 900 square foot module, we're going to build two of them and we're going to marry
[24:02|1442.4] them together at the customer site. But we're in and out of the customer site in 30 days.
[24:07|1447.2] You justB
[24:37|1477.2] How's the cost compared to the traditional foundation? b
[24:39|1479.5] It's like 20%.
[24:40|1480.9] But you have to self to do, you put you do the piles, but then you have to pour the
[24:45|1485.3] self-port concrete. It's like a slather grade, not as deep.
[24:48|1488.6] No, you don't need. So we've done two ways. Helical piles is our next iteration. We've done all the aid used thus far this year on Sono tubes because we're
[24:58|1498.4] waiting for our
[25:06|1506.9] because candidly, like H-Steel does have the thermal break.
[25:14|1514.4] Yeah, continuous insulation fixes that.
[25:16|1516.3] The whole envelope.
[25:17|1517.7] Then we do blown in insulation on the inside,
[25:19|1519.6] and then the ADU just sits on sonotubes.
[25:22|1522.0] Interesting.
[25:22|1522.9] What's on the floor?
[25:24|1524.2] So we'll do a filter fabric, to then four,
[25:28|1528.2] five inches of crush, so.
[25:30|1530.3] Cool.
[25:31|1531.2] All right.
[25:32|1532.3] And then what about running,
[25:33|1533.5] how do you run utilities to it?
[25:35|1535.3] So this is another iteration that's coming from the state.
[25:37|1537.7] So our.
[25:38|1538.8] For the customer's cost savings is to tie into the existing at the primary
[25:44|1544.0] residence, that's not always sure, you know, feasible though.
[25:47|1547.7] We're doing one in Fairhaven right now, where the utility runs 200 feet.
[25:51|1551.5] And the town, a new water line, new electrical service for the ADU.
[25:57|1557.4] What the state is now doing and proposing for legislation is let's,
[26:02|1562.4] You're not going to be able to force the homeowner to have to do a separate utility.
[26:06|1566.9] Which is great.
[26:07|1567.9] I mean, smart.
[26:08|1568.9] And then the other thing too.
[26:09|1569.9] The only downside is if they get their car and utility set up can support it or
[26:12|1572.9] is like an electrical service.
[26:14|1574.2] If it's an all
[26:26|1587.0] I guess if somebody flushes a
[26:28|1589.0] a diaper down your ADU toilet now your whole house is clogged and
[26:31|1592.0] separate sewer laterals like okay but you know to what end?
[26:36|1597.0] No, no I was going to say also you know maybe this is another area where it just plays out however it plays out is the septic.
[26:43|1604.0] Yes.
[26:44|1605.0] So if you they're obviously designed by bedroom so you're going to add a whole ADU.
[26:47|1608.0] It's fair.
[26:48|1609.0] So that's you know ironically I'd say or not ironically but I'd say upwards of 75% of our ADU
[26:55|1616.0] thus far have been on septic.
[26:57|1617.4] Oh yeah.
[26:58|1618.4] So a couple things are happening.
[27:00|1620.3] Another part of the legislation that's
[27:02|1622.7] being proposed right now is to make the Title V for ADUs
[27:06|1626.9] just minimally viable, right?
[27:08|1628.3] Because
[27:09|1629.3] a lot of what we're running into is older homes a lot of
[27:13|1633.9] these local Board of Health departments are allowing you to
[27:16|1636.9] remove a bedroom from the primary residence
[27:19|1639.4] and repurpose it to the agent.
[27:21|1641.2] All you gotta do is remove the bedroom door casing.
[27:24|1644.5] It's not a bedroom anymore.
[27:25|1645.6] They're closet or the door for the bedroom.
[27:28|1648.6] The bedroom door.
[27:29|1649.9] Okay.
[27:31|1651.3] I'm building on the Cape right now
[27:32|1652.5] and they make it a little bit harder
[27:33|1653.9] because I think that their septic slash like capacity
[27:37|1657.3] for sewer is much more acute.
[27:39|1659.3] And like, they want you to have like a 12 foot opening
[27:41|1661.9] on the wall and they're like, yeah, it's not a bedroom.
[27:44|1664.6] Okay, just open the entire wall.
[27:45|1666.0] You'll have no privacy in that room ever.
[27:47|1667.7] You good with it?
[27:48|1668.7] And we're gonna send an inspector back annually
[27:50|1670.4] to make sure that that wall is still.
[27:51|1671.9] They inspected really.
[27:53|1673.5] Like they really get your grill.
[27:55|1675.6] I was gonna say.
[27:56|1676.4] They're maybe like a little bit.
[27:58|1678.6] But it's not a lot of money.
[27:59|1679.5] I'm not gonna call it any specific towns in the cave.
[28:01|1681.9] Yeah.
[28:02|1682.6] You and them are playing nice.
[28:04|1684.1] Yeah.
[28:04|1684.5] Yeah, good.
[28:04|1684.9] But that's just it.
[28:05|1685.7] Yeah, good.
[28:05|1685.7] So the problem is, every municipality has its own fiefdom.
[28:08|1688.8] Yeah.
[28:10|1690.4] And they're trying to really unlock that at the state level. Okay, what have we done so far? We've
[28:15|1696.0] made it legal, buy right, Massachusetts to build ADUs. Now, how do we remove the friction of septic
[28:22|1702.3] utilities, right? Because to me, if you're spending $250,000 on an ADU,
[28:27|1707.0] your site work component should not be 100,000 on top of that. It starts the math doesn't math.
[28:32|1712.7] The math won't exactly. The numbers won't work at all.
[28:35|1715.3] I feel like there's always that individual municipality fiefdom problem. There needs to be
[28:48|1728.8] more force put down that comes down from the state level, I feel, in order to push these and
[28:54|1734.9] like require them and because that's what's put us in this problem to begin with, right?
[29:01|1741.2] It's all these little municipalities that don't want any building going on in their towns.
[29:05|1745.6] So I know the attorney general's got involved with some towns where they've, you know, it's
[29:09|1750.0] important to note, right so this law went into play February of 2025. I would say up
[29:16|1756.6] until the last six months. There was a, obviously there was a learning curve for developers,
[29:22|1762.7] for the building inspectors and for the customers, right?
[29:25|1765.6] Early on, we were getting calls from customers being like,
[29:27|1767.8] hey, I want 900 square feet, I got 100,000 to spend.
[29:33|1773.3] It's not happening.
[29:35|1775.2] We might be able to-
[29:36|1776.0] Go build it in Mississippi.
[29:36|1776.8] Right, exactly.
[29:37|1777.7] So, you know, I think people are recalibrating
[29:40|1780.2] and the expectations are being set
[29:41|1781.9] There's more communication around it. I mean, the state's doing a lot, right? Mass Housing has this
[29:47|1787.9] $30 million program where they'll lend you up to $250,000 for a detached ADU
[29:53|1793.9] of which they'll defer $100,000 for 20 years, so you're paying on $150,000 at a 5.2% interest rate..
[30:03|1803.5] So what is so like, I don't know if you're able to talk about costs, but like,
[30:11|1811.9] Like what, what would it cost?
[30:14|1815.0] What Mark. You know, outlined earlier is- we really were focused on making this
[30:18|1818.6] simple for our buyers. Like we really lean into the customer journey piece. So
[30:23|1823.7] we have 12 floor plans on our website. And there's a reason for that, right?
[30:27|1827.8] It kind of the smaller side of the 400 to 500 square foot range and then scales.
[30:34|1834.2] But across those four models, you'll have a square-shaped, an
[30:38|1838.2] and L-shaped and a rectangular. And the thought process behind
[30:41|1841.6] behind that was, let's have something for every type of lot.
[30:45|1845.1] It's not like we're all the shakers of land in Massachusetts.
[30:48|1848.3] Um, and by and large, we have not had to turn anyone away from a site
[30:52|1852.0] constraint standpoint, so that's one piece of it.
[30:54|1854.4] The other side of it is our standard build, you know, finished down to the
[30:58|1858.5] washer dryer included is $350 a square foot for the ADU.
[31:02|1862.6] So whether you're 450 square foot ADU or 900 square foot ADU, $350 a the square foot.
[31:09|1869.8] No foundation?
[31:10|1870.8] the site work and utility component is the separate cost.
[31:14|1874.6] Because I mean, the challenge is-
[31:17|1877.1] The building in the factory doesn't change
[31:18|1878.8] whether it's a square foot or 900.
[31:21|1881.7] I actually, so it's interesting because
[31:23|1883.4] I get the question a lot,
[31:24|1884.8] like how do you feel about modular?
[31:25|1885.9] Like since I'm in college for construction,
[31:27|1887.7] like is that the future?
[31:28|1888.8] And so my answer is evolved.
[31:31|1891.2] And currently it's like, yes,
[31:33|1893.1] modular is the future with a where some version of it.
[31:37|1897.0] Is it bathroom pods?
[31:38|1898.5] Is it ADUs that are in modular?
[31:40|1900.2] Like I sell short having experienced it, a 20,000 square foot building
[31:45|1905.7] that's all constructed modular off site and brought in a special place like Boston.
[31:50|1910.2] Like there's just nowhere to put the boxes. Hey, you can't keep it waterproof.
[31:53|1913.2] If a North Eastern or Easter rolls in there, there's just too many issues and it.
[31:58|1918.1] It might save schedule, arguably, but it doesn't save cost on that scale.
[32:02|1922.0] But like, yes, maybe it's prefab wall assemblies.
[32:05|1926.0] It's ADUs that are 900 square feet or 1100, but so...
[32:10|1930.3] And what's the lead time? I know you said once it's on site, it's 30 days,
[32:15|1935.2] but what's the lead time from when you place the order to when it's ready?
[32:19|1939.0] So it's important
[32:20|1940.5] important for me to call out that right now we're going through our certification with the state
[32:24|1944.4] for the third party approval piece. So our kind of stopgap to that was when we first went to
[32:30|1950.2] market and signed our first handful of contracts late 2025 into early 2026. We
[32:37|1957.2] We were just doing panelization, bringing the panels to the customer site and, putting
[32:39|1959.2] it up in two months.
[32:41|1961.4] And then our next pivot after that was building the boxes in the factory, doing the roughs
[32:46|1966.5] in the factory, putting the flooring down in the factory in the siting and delivering
[32:50|1970.8] to the customer site and getting a local inspection with the walls open.
[32:55|1975.4] And now the third iteration that we're basically at the finish line on is NTA third
[33:00|1980.1] approval so we can not see a 90% finish in the factory.
[33:03|1984.0] Two questions.
[33:06|1986.2] Floor ceiling assemblies,
[33:08|1988.3] are you using like a high joist?
[33:13|1993.0] Yeah, so we have concrete or plywood subfloor on top of that?
[33:18|1998.3] Plywood.
[33:18|1999.0] Plywood, yeah.
[33:19|2000.0] Cool.
[33:20|2000.5] That's our thing.
[33:21|2001.7] We've done some commercial work with structural stud,
[33:25|2005.8] where it's a metal pan decking with like a four inch concrete slab on top of it
[33:32|2012.2] and that helps achieve an additional floor when you have a constraint on the
[33:36|2016.8] building height or a number of stories, well really building height, but it also
[33:41|2021.4] has its own drawbacks like how do you get recessed lighting in and other issues
[33:46|2026.1] like that so it sounds like a piece of shit. Also with an ADU I'm not overly
[33:50|2030.9] concerned like the other thing that I don't love about modular is oftentimes
[33:54|2034.0] like you deliver a box and the box has a ceiling and then the next box comes and it has a floor
[33:58|2038.8] and ipso facto your interstitial space that ceiling void is now 18 inches, 20
[34:04|2045.0] inches and like you have an overall height limit of 32 feet so now your ceiling heights are
[34:09|2049.3] four and a half feet. Could they not? Well not to mention if you have any voids between your ceiling
[34:13|2053.3] now you're in the multifamily M. Now you're sprinkling all the voids. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[34:16|2056.4] Or you fill it with some. Yeah. Well, could that not be solved by just having something
[34:20|2060.7] temporarily hold the top plates in place and then land the floor on top of it?
[34:26|2066.0] Probably. I'm sure there's a solution.
[34:27|2067.4] Yeah.
[34:27|2067.9] And where actually? I went to World of Modular. I want to say it was in February. And one thing that
[34:34|2074.1] stood out to me was there's no shortage of the graveyard of modular companies that have
[34:39|2079.1] come and gone, right?
[34:40|2080.0] Yeah, right.
[34:40|2080.8] And the things that stand out to me are the companies that go, they raise $50 million,
[34:45|2085.4] they go get their 150,000 square foot factory. They don't have the sales pipeline to support it.
[34:50|2090.4] They're dead.
[34:50|2090.9] They're dead in the water and you know, Katera, they raised $2 billion.
[34:54|2094.8] Right.
[34:55|2095.1] They bankrupt.
[34:56|2096.2] So for us, we wanted to take the cliche, you know, let's, let's crawl up
[35:01|2101.6] to this thing, right?
[35:02|2102.6] Let's do it in a 30,000 square foot factory and an ADU space and small
[35:07|2107.1] multi space that is not all that complicated.
[35:09|2109.7] Don't push past it.
[35:10|2110.5] Right.
[35:10|2110.8] Don't do it, Steve.
[35:12|2112.5] Don't.
[35:12|2112.9] No.
[35:13|2113.8] I hear your voice.
[35:14|2114.7] Stay right there.
[35:16|2116.1] We're just getting into the.
[35:16|2116.7] The factory in the socket.
[35:17|2117.8] We're like, where do we build our flagship factory in mass mass?
[35:19|2119.9] Because, you know, we're all
[35:21|2121.3] developers and the reality is
[35:29|2129.9] We just want a steel job to do
[35:31|2132.0] the frame for a 90 unit building
[35:34|2134.2] in Cambridge. It's just going to
[35:35|2135.6] be the frame. We're going to
[35:36|2136.7] produce it all. We can turn the
[35:38|2138.2] steel out. But the developer
[35:42|2142.8] came back to us and he's like,
[35:43|2144.0] do you want to do you want to
[35:44|2144.7] GC this thing? Do you want to
[35:45|2145.7] do it all modular? And I'm like,
[35:47|2147.6] you know, we know what we can
[35:49|2149.1] it can't do and producing 90 units right now, which in all realities, probably 180, give
[35:55|2155.0] or take modules, that's 180 days of production for us.
[35:59|2159.0] So kind of defeats the purpose of the compression of time.
[36:03|2163.8] We do want to get to that space where we're doing large multi-families, but it's a different
[36:09|2169.4] animal.
[36:10|2170.4] I mean, we're all come from the traditional stick build, site build world.
[36:13|2173.2] You set something up, you make it big enough to handle a big job, but now you have a beast
[36:17|2177.1] that needs to be fed.
[36:18|2178.4] I'd love to bring you back to do a business lab. This is a new real estate
[36:21|2181.7] attics format that we recently pioneered with Circa demo and disposal and we
[36:26|2186.9] really just went into the numbers, down to like, hey this is how much I'm paying
[36:30|2190.6] for disposal, am I in if I think I'm really inefficient here and Ricky was
[36:34|2194.4] with us from Volkner and Dan and Ryan kind of.
[36:37|2197.4] Let's dive into the numbers if you're willing to be an open book or
[36:40|2200.6] yeah we'll come back. I'd like to do that. Talk about some pages. Can I ask a quick
[36:45|2205.0] question just about the ADUs in general.
[36:46|2206.9] So I have multiple things, but I'll start with just,
[36:49|2209.8] so you've got a single family and the ADU gets added.
[36:52|2212.8] The lot itself, the parcel remains a single family.
[36:55|2215.5] It's not like all of a sudden now you have a condo situation.
[36:59|2219.2] Is that forbidden, allowed, or dealer's choice?
[37:02|2222.0] So I think it's dealer's choice within the fiefdom, right?
[37:07|2227.1] So what they're trying to work towards,
[37:09|2229.2] and a lot of what I'm looking at for strategy is what has
[37:11|2232.0] California done in the ADU market?
[37:14|2234.0] Yes, they're a bigger market than we are,
[37:15|2235.6] but they put 150,000 ADUs out into the field
[37:18|2238.3] over the last 10 years.
[37:19|2239.6] And there's a lot of modular companies out there
[37:22|2242.1] doing that business.
[37:25|2245.0] But they,
[37:30|2250.5] how do I say this?
[37:32|2252.7] They, I actually honestly just lost my train of thought.
[37:35|2255.7] That's okay, no, that's fine.
[37:37|2257.2] I was gonna say on the multi-family.
[37:38|2258.0] They said they're not as good as Mass12.
[37:40|2260.6] So it's fine.
[37:41|2261.6] Condos.
[37:42|2262.4] Yeah, but yeah, on the multifamily side.
[37:44|2265.0] So, what they're trying to do here, and I've heard it both ways from lawyers, is that
[37:49|2269.3] it's a single family today and you improve your land and add another parcel, another
[37:56|2276.9] property to you.
[37:59|2279.6] Who's to stop you from condominiumizing it?
[38:02|2282.3] Like in theory, it really like they shouldn't be able to stop that.
[38:06|2286.6] But where the call it a phase three of the evolution of ADUs in Massachusetts is going
[38:12|2292.1] to be is I think you're going to see legislation that allows you-
[38:15|2295.1] s you to parcel off the AD a you and the associated land and sell it separately.
[38:19|2299.1] Whereas today you sell that parcel of land, the ADU runs with the property.
[38:25|2305.1] So divide and then sell off.
[38:27|2307.1] I was going to say it was just because.
[38:29|2309.1] Do it. We need housing. Like God forbid somebody makes money on it.
[38:32|2312.1] Who cares?
[38:34|2314.1] Now.
[38:36|2316.1] Yeah, I'm gonna go against that just because now you're basically bastardizing all of
[38:41|2321.9] the zoning that you've had in the first place.
[38:44|2324.2] It's completely chopped up
[38:45|2325.5] Are you opposed to turning them into condos?
[38:49|2329.4] No, on a single family.
[38:52|2332.3] Are you just playing devil's advocate?
[38:53|2333.8] You can't be from New Hampshire.
[38:54|2334.8] No, on a single family, yes, I'd be against it.
[38:58|2338.6] Multifamily, no.
[38:59|2339.6] And the reason is if it's not allowed by right, I don't understand why you'd
[39:04|2344.2] want to do that. Why you want to have a single family in chocolate.
[39:09|2349.2] Nothing is allowed by right, right?
[39:10|2350.2] Right. Well, this begs the question, I'll ask you a further question.
[39:14|2354.2] I'm sorry, sorry. Let me preface. You have a very confused look on your face. So I'm
[39:17|2357.8] sorry, Steve.
[39:18|2358.8] Can I sell a parking space on my property to somebody else? Like, I don't...
[39:22|2362.9] It's a single family house. So the concept of ADU was more or less an in-law suite.
[39:28|2369.0] and it's to almost say in a familial unit,
[39:31|2371.5] whereas on a multi-
[39:33|2373.4] I get it, like an ADU, add another unit
[39:35|2375.6] because that's typically, you've got this dichotomy
[39:38|2378.1] of like, we've got rural areas and suburban areas
[39:40|2380.6] and city areas and urban areas, right?
[39:42|2382.3] So the urban areas need more units,
[39:44|2384.2] how do you add them fast?
[39:45|2385.1] ADU, great, go nuts, condwise it,
[39:47|2387.6] add another multi-family unit, I'm fine.
[39:49|2389.5] But on the rural and suburban,
[39:51|2391.7] I can definitely see the argument being made
[39:53|2393.5] for just keeping it within one parcel and not-
[39:56|2396.2] I can see that argument being made by dumb.
[39:58|2399.0] So it begs the question.
[39:59|2400.0] Are you calling me dumb?
[40:00|2401.0] It begs the question.
[40:03|2403.1] What do you think our overwhelming use case is?
[40:07|2407.1] Is it multi-
[40:14|2414.9] I think they're pitched.
[40:15|2415.9] But also familial too, if you don't have the space for like an in-laws.
[40:19|2419.6] What's the answer?
[40:20|2420.6] It's kind of both.
[40:21|2421.6] So let's see.
[40:22|2422.6] When we first started Mass
[40:24|2424.6] Maxwell, I thought we would have an overwhelming
[40:26|2426.6] response for.
[40:27|2427.6] It's a multi-f
[40:29|2429.6] 86% of our customers use it from multi-generational
[40:31|2431.6] living.
[40:32|2432.6] Furthermore, it cuts both ways.
[40:35|2435.6] Or a pool house.
[40:36|2436.6] Or a pool house.
[40:37|2437.6] I remind me to talk about golf sheds.
[40:40|2440.6] Okay.
[40:41|2441.6] All right.
[40:42|2442.6] Come back to that.
[40:43|2443.6] Personally, I think the condo route is like if
[40:49|2449.6] it's if you're doing two condos on a lot, who
[40:52|2452.6] It's too front-on.
[40:53|2453.6] It's just like any other.
[40:54|2454.6] I'm fine with that.
[40:55|2455.6] I think the rent-
[40:56|2456.6] Yeah, because you're not chopping the parcel up.
[40:58|2458.1] So that's fair.
[40:59|2459.1] That's fair.
[41:00|2460.1] Dividing the parcel and selling them off is just odd.
[41:02|2462.2] I just think most ADUs are in someone's backyard.
[41:05|2465.9] Correct.
[41:06|2466.9] So it's like-
[41:07|2467.9] But then why is that your choice to make?
[41:09|2469.1] Like let the market decide.
[41:10|2470.1] No, I think you're destroying-
[41:11|2471.1] Let the market decide.
[41:12|2472.1] I agree.
[41:13|2473.1] I mean personally, I think you're destroying the value.
[41:14|2474.1] Yeah, but you own it.
[41:15|2475.1] I mean, I guess a bank might have a question about it.
[41:17|2477.7] No, that's a good point.
[41:18|2478.7] That's actually more interesting.
[41:20|2481.0] To Dan's point, it's a really good point.
[41:22|2482.1] You're gonna devalue the main structure.
[41:24|2484.4] I think the better, more functional question here
[41:28|2488.3] is how would your lender,
[41:29|2489.9] No one actually owns their house.
[41:31|2491.6] Their bank does.
[41:32|2492.7] And you constantly use it like a cash register.
[41:34|2494.8] So if I have a million bucks to my bank
[41:37|2497.3] and I have 200 grand and I say I'm gonna bastardize
[41:40|2500.1] this parcel and sell it out of this ADU in the backyard
[41:44|2504.8] to make a few bucks because I'm short on cash,
[41:47|2507.6] I think they're gonna look at me and say,
[41:48|2508.7] no you're not.
[41:49|2509.6] Well they're gonna have to reappraise it.
[41:51|2511.7] Yeah, reappraise it.
[41:52|2512.7] And then the appraiser's gonna be like,
[41:56|2516.3] well don't you sell it.
[41:57|2517.1] I don, you know, if you sell it,
[41:58|2518.3] probably want a percentage of the sale.
[42:00|2520.3] Probably want 90%.
[42:02|2522.3] And this probably is a market solution,
[42:04|2524.3] and I'm sure a creative lender would
[42:06|2526.3] figure out a way to make it work.
[42:08|2528.3] To me, we don't have a housing crisis,
[42:12|2532.3] we have a housing shortage.
[42:14|2534.3] What do you mean? Explain that difference.
[42:18|2538.3] Everyone, we've been struck by a hurricane,
[42:21|2541.3] and it was nothing of our doing.
[42:23|2543.3] It's a a simple market of supply and demand,
[42:25|2545.3] and we are chronically under supplied,
[42:27|2547.3] Thus we have a very expensive housing stock.
[42:29|2549.6] And so we need more housing.
[42:31|2551.2] It's a housing supply crisis.
[42:33|2553.1] And I think if someone wants to put an ADU
[42:34|2554.7] in their backyard, allow them to afford
[42:39|2559.7] to live in a certain town, you shouldn't stop.
[42:42|2562.4] I also don't care if it's your parents,
[42:44|2564.4] your kids who can't get a job,
[42:47|2567.3] or someone down the street who needs a place to rent.
[42:50|2570.3] I think that we far too often go hard
[42:53|2573.8] concept of like families.
[42:55|2575.1] Like Jesse and I don't have kids.
[42:56|2576.2] Like, are we a family?
[42:57|2577.4] You know, you go to these community meetings
[42:58|2579.0] and it's, like, I only wanted for,
[43:00|2580.5] it's like enough with this, like, you know,
[43:03|2583.3] two cars and a turkey in the oven and a three-car garage.
[43:06|2586.6] Just housing for people.
[43:26|2606.2] about was like not letting
[43:27|2607.3] you subdivide a lot.
[43:28|2608.3] Sanitation commissioner.
[43:29|2609.9] When in theory a condo association
[43:31|2611.9] does the same thing, right?
[43:33|2613.9] Mm-hmm.
[43:34|2614.4] Yeah.
[43:35|2615.2] And you know, the multi-generational thing
[43:39|2619.7] for us cuts both ways.
[43:40|2620.7] I'm seeing one of two things happening
[43:43|2623.7] and you just touched on the affordable,
[43:45|2625.4] I'm, sorry, assisted living facility.
[43:46|2626.9] And I'll tell you a little bit about where we're taking
[43:48|2628.7] our healthcare vision.
[43:49|2629.6] But so what we're seeing is, you know,
[43:53|2633.7] mom and dad reaching out to us saying,
[43:55|2635.7] kids or getting ready to start their
[44:25|2665.7] us here. We didn't really set out to what I'm building the housing layer of H tech or
[44:32|2673.0] health tech. And what I mean by that is we're about to announce a partnership with a company
[44:36|2676.7] out of Boston called Cherish Health. So if you're putting that elderly one elderly family
[44:42|2682.5] member in your backyard, you solve half the problem by having them 50 feet away from
[44:46|2686.9] you. But here's this statistic, one out of four people over the age of 65 will fall
[44:52|2692.0] at some point. So what do you hope? You hope they have a wearable on or they have their iPhone near
[44:56|2696.3] them or their phone. I think not to box it into iPhone only products or Apple products.
[45:02|2702.7] But I was on the phone with some the other day. He told me his mom fell.
[45:06|2706.3] They couldn't get in touch with her for two days. She died.
[45:09|2709.9] It's a very refreshing take for us, whereas us as developers, we're in our silo, building a
[45:15|2715.1] building, eithera renting it out, selling it, and you're onto the next. We ae really hearing
[45:20|2720.5] the kind of boots on the ground stories from these families of what they care about. And as a result
[45:25|2725.7] of that, we have built massed well care, right? So, baseline is obviously structures that are
[45:32|2732.7] non combustible. There's, they're all electric ERVs, and then layering in this partnership with
[45:40|2740.0] Cher, every single adu of ours are going to leave the factory with these sensors built into the walls.
[45:45|2745.5] So important to call privacy is privacy. There's no audio. There's no video,
[45:49|2749.5] No flock cams.
[45:50|2750.3] No flock cams. It effectively pixelates your body. But no one has access to that data other than
[45:56|2756.9] the family. They're not even going to get a view of, hey, are you in the bathroom right now?
[46:02|2763.0] It's no. If you fall, the family and the 24-7 response team gets alerted to that. And then
[46:09|2769.1] it's all actively monitoring some health metrics against you. So one of the early signs of
[46:14|2774.5] of dementia is a change in a person's walking gate.
[46:17|2777.4] So understand patterns of life over time and being able to proactively
[46:20|2780.7] get ahead of potential health issues is paramount to what we're doing.
[46:24|2784.7] And that's kind of this next phase that we're going to launch in January.
[46:28|2788.5] And then our longer term plan is, and this goes into the assisted living.
[46:31|2791.9] Is it golf club houses, golf, ADUs?
[46:34|2794.2] Golf ADUs as well.
[46:35|2795.2] We need to go back to that.
[46:36|2796.2] Golf 12.
[46:36|2796.9] Golf 12.
[46:37|2797.4] Oh, are you serious?
[46:38|2798.6] I'm dead serious.
[46:39|2799.2] Oh, wow.
[46:39|2799.9] Yeah.
[46:40|2800.1] So we're partnering with a company called Platform Golf.
[46:42|2802.3] Yeah.
[46:42|2802.8] Um, so basically we're building the box for their tech.
[46:46|2806.7] That's awesome.
[46:47|2807.5] Yeah. And so because there's a need for that. Apparently only 4% of the golf courses in the
[46:53|2813.4] country have space for a performance center. So, really?
[46:57|2817.8] Talk about how like the putting green can undulate and you can change it.
[47:01|2821.4] Yes. That's the second.
[47:02|2822.4] So we basically built obviously the platform in the box, but the platform is
[47:09|2829.1] recessed, eight inches where the platform tech golf sets. So much like me, when I hit a ball or a drive
[47:15|2835.6] off the tee, I'm in the woods on a, on a hill somewhere, right? So it's going to slope that for you.
[47:20|2840.2] And you're going to be hitting your next shot off the slope. That's crazy.
[47:23|2843.2] That's pretty cool. Because I, I tell everyone I'm the best range golfer there is or the best sim golfer
[47:27|2847.5] there is it's all flat lies. And it's just all, you know, you can go from the rough to the real rough.
[47:33|2853.2] Exactly. Change your, uh, yeah.
[47:35|2855.4] Change the grass coming out of the ground. It's really cool.
[47:38|2858.4] It's a really good partnership for us. So we're starting to inch forward on that. But
[47:43|2863.2] to close the loop on the Massed Well Care piece, our longer-term plan is to have the fleet of
[47:48|2868.7] pods, ADU pods, that we're going.
[47:50|2870.7] We're going to flip? To script on. So instead of paying $ 10,000 a
[47:53|2873.6] month, to know,
[48:08|2888.4] Wow.
[48:08|2888.9] Takes care R of the
[48:10|2890.4] the person
[48:11|2891.4] And the
[48:41|2921.4] So a lot, a wider hallways, clear and says be to zero hours.
[48:46|2926.9] You know, the basics, you know, grab bars are a
[50:11|3011.4] next,
# ---- Patch: higher-quality beam=5 re-transcription of spots where the pass above dropped/garbled text (times = seconds-accurate m:ss) ----
[3:20] ...use a lot of ... let's just say we scale a lot of credits ... I'm just going to add 500 more
[3:53] Well, that was like a good cold open, but Steve is an entrepreneur...
[12:45] factory in Franklin ... steel fabrication for multifamily developers ... developers are like, I'm just going to stick with what I know. And so I went to Carlos a little over... (garbled)
[13:22] ...we wanted to build an entity in a business that was purpose built for ADUs, single families [and small multifamilies] -> MassDwell
[21:22] So Sudbury still owns it, you're just like the GC basically? Yeah.
[22:00] Have you ever had any issues with [light gauge] ... 10 years ago ... inspectors ... "I don't want to touch it"
[24:55] Sonotubes this year because we're waiting for helical piles ... envelope wrapped in rigid board insulation ... sits on sonotubes
[44:30] ...we're building the housing layer of HealthTech ... partnership with a company out of Boston called Cherish Health ... one out of four people over 65 will fall
[46:08] ...proactively monitor health metrics ... early signs of dementia is a change in walking gait
[49:20] ...we were just talking about my Claude bill last month ... if you leverage AI you can do much more with much less
[49:53] Steve's around South Boston. How else can folks find you? Instagram @massdwell, website massdwell.com
[50:04] Thank you for listening, reading, reviewing, subscribing ... (outro)