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Real News For Real New Mexicans.
The Chile Wire with Abe Baldonado. Hey, y'all. Welcome back to The Chile Wire. This week, I have an exclusive interview with Kristy Borrego Ojinaga who recently had a feature in Independent Women's Forum.
Abe Baldonado:And Kristy is with us today in the podcast studio to tell her story. Kristy, thank you so much for sitting down with The Chile Wire. I look forward to our conversation. Before we dive into it though, I think this is gonna be very personal and very serious conversation. And so I wanna be a little light hearted at first before we dive into your story as you share, you know, as you've navigated public schools in New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:Now you're, you know, battling local institutions and public funded institutions. And so I just have to ask because it is the Chili Wire. So you're gonna get ranked in right now on the Chili Wire red or green?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Oh, green. Alright. Awesome. Green.
Abe Baldonado:Awesome. Well, Kristy, thank you so much. This is Christie's first podcast.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So Yes. It is.
Abe Baldonado:Kristy, thank you so much for making The Chile Wire the first podcast. We appreciate
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:it. Well, thank you for having me.
Abe Baldonado:Well, Kristy, I wanna give you an opportunity to introduce yourself as we move into, you know, the Independent Women's Forum did an amazing feature on you and your family and what you experienced in Santa Fe Public Schools specifically. And so I think it's gonna be really important for families to hear your story because I think there are many families out there who have experienced the same thing and maybe have remained silent for fear of retaliation. Maybe even just a school not even taking action and so not even wasting their time with it. But this might be a moment where we can get families to start paying attention to what's happening in their schools. You know, schools are meant to be safe spaces.
Abe Baldonado:They're meant to be places where student, you know, as a family you send your kids to school and you know, hey, they're getting the best education possible. They're getting the life skills necessary to be successful in a career and your experience was quite opposite of that. There was something else going on. I won't take your story away. But Christie just for our viewers, please feel free to introduce yourself.
Abe Baldonado:Tell us a little bit about yourself and then we can dive into what you've experienced.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Okay. Sure. My name again is Christie Bofredo Hinaga and I'm from Santa Fe. Born and raised there. Came up through the public schools, left for college for a little bit, but then chose to return and raise my family there in Santa Fe.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:My extended family is still there. My grandpa is still there. He's 101 and, you know, we've loved we love Santa Fe. I mean, it is just it's it's home for us. And when our kids finally got to the age of starting school, public school was a no brainer for us.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:My husband and I both came up through the public schools and we loved it. Yep. We we we loved it and we thought we found a great school for the kids to go to and the the the first couple years there were great. And then it all shifted last last fall when they started school. And it was an unfortunate situation that I had high hopes to kind of work through with the school administration, but unfortunately that just didn't happen as I kind of moved through, you know, taking my concerns to the different levels within the district and then finally to the Santa Fe Public School Board and the superintendent.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So I'm here because I think I want to bring awareness to what's kind of going on in our schools. I want parents to know what's happening. I want them to feel empowered to advocate for their children. I want our parental rights to be respect respected because I feel like ours were very much violated. Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So that's kind of what's brought me here today. I mean, never my intention to hurt anyone to, you know, step into this space that's very controversial and I'm truly just here because I think parents have the rights to to make decisions on behalf of their children and and I feel like they should really be partners with schools and in my experience, parents just aren't.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Well, and parents should feel trust in their schools. Right? When they send their kids to school, as I said a moments ago, that, you you should know that they're getting a high quality education, that they're getting the skills necessary to be successful, you know, and not indoctrinating practices not conversations that should be had with strangers, but with parents parents family. The family structure has these conversations
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:and also age appropriate. Right?
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. That's a good point.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:And so I I'm sorry that you you and your family had to go through that. However, I I believe it was divine in nature because now you're using your voice to share with other New Mexico families who like I said, I think there's many out there who have maybe experienced the same thing and just have remained silent because they feel like, hey, I'm a small majority and I don't know what I'm up against here. However, when we see issues though, you have to bring it up and you have to advocate for your child. You have to advocate for your family. It's the right thing to do.
Abe Baldonado:And so when a school pushes back and says, and I have a feeling this is what happened to you. They said, we know more better than you Christie. Don't worry. Like, we're doing it the right way. You you stay in your lane.
Abe Baldonado:We'll stay in ours, but we're gonna tell your kid how to think, what to do. And if you don't agree with us, then you're uncompassionate. You're
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:not Accepting. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Accepting, you know, and and that's unfortunate. And I'm glad you brought that up. You know, the intention here is not to hurt anyone. It's not to make accusations. You know, it's just a real life situation that occurred and you're bringing awareness to it.
Abe Baldonado:And now I do believe that these conversations are delicate in nature and you know, you never want to come off as hateful and you know, and and that's an unfortunate thing. When we talk about these things and I I experience this, you know, having a podcast, you know, we talk about issues. We talk about real life situations that are happening happening across our state and it's not intended to be cruel towards anyone or incompassionate. It's to bring awareness to say, hey, New Mexico, pay attention. You know, look what's happening, you know, and are there good things happening?
Abe Baldonado:Yes, there are. But are there bad things that are underlying? Absolutely. And we need to call that out. And so I'm glad you're you're bringing this awareness, Christie.
Abe Baldonado:And so I wanna go a little bit in-depth about are you able to share, like, the story of, like, what happened with your kid?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Sure. Yeah. I could I could kinda tell you what happened. I don't want to discuss the actual school Mhmm. Or specific people at the school just because I I feel that a lot of the people in this situation were put in bad positions by the district as a whole, the Santa Fe Public School District.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I also want to protect all the children that are still there at that school. That's really important to me even though my daughter's no longer there or my son for that matter. They're still just like these are very young children. And I've been asked a lot, can you tell the school? Can you tell the teacher, the principal?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And no. My answer is always gonna be no. The the Santa Fe Public School District knows exactly which school and they know exactly the people involved and if they wanted to intervene and help and address these issues and they absolutely can. But
Abe Baldonado:And you also don't want there at this school, there's probably some amazing educators.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:There is absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:Some amazing people and so you don't want to put that stigma on them that, hey, everyone there is entirely bad. No. I think you pointed out that this isn't a person issue. This is a system issue.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It's a system. It's a policy. Yeah. It's laws in New Mexico. So it's it's much bigger than just the specific situation because although that is what happened to my daughter was wrong.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:What's wrong is the policies that were in place to allow it to happen. Right? And that's why my goal here is not to take anybody's rights away. I want every child to have every right equally. I want to see policy change so that every child is considered in in any situation that happens in these public schools.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So with that, could just kind of dive in.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Let's know, Chile Wire podcast. Yeah. We love policy. So let's dive in.
Abe Baldonado:You know, Christie, as we have gotten to know each other, you had mentioned, I never thought I would be here or having this discussion or being involved in like policy.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:No. Never.
Abe Baldonado:But I'm curious as we now transition into the policy discussion. I think it's gonna be interesting to hear your perspective from being outside of it completely unaware and now, hey, I started seeing these policies and wow, my like eyes have opened. And so let's dive on in. Like, what
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:did Let's you see dive on in. Okay. So my six year old daughter, she's in she was in the first grade at the time. This was last fall. The school year started like normal.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Everybody was excited to get back in the swing of things. My daughter, she's she's a talker. I mean, she would dominate the the dinner the dinner table about her day. Every every detail, you know.
Abe Baldonado:Did they have to move her in class because I know She's pretty good. She's like, stupid. Moving away
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:and I'd
Abe Baldonado:still find someone to talk to you.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:No. I think I think she was a very good student. Just very kind, sweet, happy to tell us about her day, you know, unlike her brother that would just say, you know, it was good. It was fine.
Abe Baldonado:That's a boy response. Yeah. Was fine.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:But Yeah. Very different. So But one day in early September, she came home and she was just very quiet. When my husband and I asked about her day, she just said, don't want to talk about it, which to us was just very much a red flag because she's never like that. I mean, when things are hard for her, she still will cry about it.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:She'll still talk to us about it. So we kind of pressed a little bit. We're like, no, there's something going on. Why don't you tell us what's going on? And she pushed back.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:She said that she didn't know how to tell us or that she didn't want to get in trouble. And so we told her, you know, you won't be in trouble with us. If you feel like you're in trouble at school, then mom and dad will kind of help you to make it right, whatever's whatever happened, and then just speak the truth of what you know is the truth is kind of the message we gave her. And that's when she finally said, you know, there's a boy in my class and I don't like the way he's making me feel. So immediately I thought, she's maybe she's being bullied, you know, maybe they're teasing her.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I don't know. So I said, okay. What is he doing that you don't like that's making you feel bad? And she said, well, he's he follows me into the bathroom. And I said, okay.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Have you told your teacher? And she said, yeah. She she she sends him in there with us. And I'm like, okay. Is what what other things are happening that, you know, is making you feel bad?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And she said, well, he he plays with his privates in class. And I said, okay. And how do you know he's a boy? And she said, because he plays with his privates in class. And I said, okay, and
Abe Baldonado:he This is kindergarten, right?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:This is first grade.
Abe Baldonado:First grade.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So there's a lot of misinformation out there, right? People are saying, oh, kindergarten, they have just one bathroom in the classroom, but no, this is not the case in this situation. This is a first grade classroom. There's no bathroom inside. They actually send the kids to girls and boys bathrooms separately.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So then I said, know, is there anything else you want to tell us? She said that he had told some of the other little girls in her class he had crushes on them, wanted to kiss them and that apparently had exposed himself the year before in the kindergarten class, the kids and the teachers. And so at that point, I could see that she was kind of getting upset. She also very much started confusing his pronouns. So she would say things like, well, he I mean, she did this but he he does that.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I mean, she's doing that because he has these parts and like, you know, you could just tell and I I kinda at that point knew, okay. I I think I can understand. Although I didn't understand completely because I'm like, this is another six year old.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Six years old.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Six Six years years old. And I'm like, this is okay. Well, let me just see. So I emailed the teacher and we went in the next day to talk to the teacher and I thought we were gonna, you know, like, hey, we're bringing this to your attention so we can make sure that, you know, our daughter we could figure something out that would put her in a position where she's not uncomfortable anymore. Right?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And then, you know, I wanna report this behavior so that whatever needs to happen to take care of this other child could happen because my understanding that kind of behavior is probably not normal and I very much am concerned about both children at this point that I'm like, you know, I thought bringing bringing it to the attention of the teacher in the school was the the correct next move, but instead, I was kinda met with well, there's this gender support plan in place, and I'm like, I I don't even know what that is. Also, teacher was very uncomfortable when I came in and told her these things and she did not know how to respond to me at all when I asked her what was going on, so the principal was called in almost immediately and it was the principal that then confirmed that this six year old little boy had a gender support plan in place
Abe Baldonado:At six years old.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:At six years old. Yeah. And so I had never heard about that policy, so I I asked a lot of questions. I said, you know, why why didn't I know that that that there was gonna be a biological boy in the bathroom with my daughter? Had you told me in the beginning of the year.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Would have put boundaries around her that I felt were safe for my six year old daughter. I would have never asked for any right to be taken away from the other child. I would have just wanted to know so that I could do as her parent what I felt was best for her.
Abe Baldonado:And have a conversation
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:with your daughter and your daughter and maybe prepare her for what she was gonna see or be exposed to, totally separate from from the behavior of this child, right? That he was exhibiting just to prepare for the situation. I could have then decided if I wanted to take her out of the class or, you know, at least I would have had choices and and been able to make informed, right? I think informed is the important word here, a decision on her behalf because she's not old enough. She's not old enough to remove herself from situations, she's not old enough to put her own boundaries.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I'm not sure she's even old enough to tell the teacher, Hey, no, I'm not okay with this because you know we send our six year olds to school and say, Listen to your teachers. Yeah, exactly. So I just feel like I and and I was just told that it was it was it wasn't my business that I wasn't able to make those decisions that they would never tell me about another student because of FERPA law.
Abe Baldonado:Well, they didn't have to identify the specific
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:That's student, what I've told them. You know, I went and did a lot of research on FERPA law after that, and it's like, you know, they're not allowed to give out any information that has to do with school records about a child or identifiable personal Information. Information. And I'm like, oh, I wasn't asking you to point out the child, you know, you could have just told me at the beginning of the year there's gonna student
Abe Baldonado:has a gender
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:support plan and he will be using the girls bathroom like and then I could have done what I felt was And other families
Abe Baldonado:Other parents
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:in Exactly. That same grade
Abe Baldonado:could have those conversations with their children.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yes. I did. I asked, I said, what about, you know, now I found out because my daughter is frightened, doesn't want to go to school anymore. Like what about all those other little girls and their parents? Like you're not giving them the option to do what they feel is best for their child.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And I mean they kind of like dug their feet in and said, nope, they don't get to know and that just didn't sit well with me. So I told them what's next? Who do I need to talk to next? And so they set up a meeting with me, my husband, the principal, the school counselor now at this point, and it was with the wellness coordinator for the Santa Fe Public School District. I don't know if you want me to say her name because she's part of the district.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I mean,
Abe Baldonado:the larger administration. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone else for that matter. You know, I care about safety as we have these discussions, especially these days with political violence.
Abe Baldonado:You know, I I don't want people to get either. And, you know, because
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I agree.
Abe Baldonado:That's not the intention here. The intention is to bring awareness to our our friends, our family, to our community about what's happening just to, you know, talk about some of the things that we're seeing, some of the injustices, some of the rights that are being taken away from parents. So I'm okay if
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:you Okay.
Abe Baldonado:You don't say her name, you know, I
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I'm sure.
Abe Baldonado:You know,
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:it's a it's a coordinator for the district and she's the one that implements these gender support plans for kids. So the meeting the next day was with this person and I started asking a lot of questions about these gender support plans, you know, I had never heard of them before, I guess maybe that's my fault, I didn't take the time to go look at every single policy within the Santa Fe Public School District, and now I would tell parents: absolutely go and look at these policies and especially these gender support plans because they're all throughout the state. It's not just as exclusive to Santa Fe, it's it's all over the state, these gender support plans. And so we kinda went through it and so I I I asked that that child be removed from the bathroom because of his behavior. And this wellness coordinator told me that this behavior is very typical for this age, which I absolutely disagree with because I have sons.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. Well, we also
Abe Baldonado:have our own personal life experience. Right? We have our own first grade Yes. And I don't recall that ever happening.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Well, and it's not appropriate either. Right? It's it's just not appropriate. It shouldn't be happening in the classroom.
Abe Baldonado:Or normalized. Right? We shouldn't be like, oh, it's normal. Is it though?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I've heard people tell me, boys will be boys. No. Absolutely not. It is not okay for our girls to be exposed to that kind of stuff. It's not and it shouldn't be normalized.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Right? We shouldn't say it's typical behavior. I brought up the exposure of the previous year. So we're in early September. The previous year was May, you know, it was maybe a few months difference and I was told that that behavior was historic.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And I'm like, well, is there a statute of limitations on exposing your genitals? Because I don't I don't think it is. I think, you know, you need to consider this behavior when you're then putting this little boy in the bathroom with the girls. She wouldn't. They they they very much pushed back.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I said I I don't think my daughter's safe in the bathroom because of this behavior and they told me that there are multiple studies that show that that child is in more danger using the bathroom that aligns with his biological sex than my daughter is sharing the bathroom with this boy. And so I asked for those studies, said I want to see them. I wanna see the gender support plan and all the other documents. And then I brought up the fact that he was saying he had crushes on the girls, I'm like, you know, he's saying he has crushes on them and then you're sending him to the bathroom with them.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And she told me that maybe he was a lesbian and they don't dictate bathroom usage on sexual orientation. And I think at that point, was just like, I don't even know
Abe Baldonado:Like we're talking about six year olds.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Exactly. I mean, I just remember looking at my husband thinking, what what I don't
Abe Baldonado:did we just have?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Well, we can't even like there wasn't even a, you know, a foundation that we can maybe agree on that these are six year olds.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:What are we doing to take care of all these six year olds because of this situation, right? What do we think is appropriate for six year olds to call a little boy a lesbian at six years old? I just was like, I I'm not sure where to go from here. So the the conversation ended pretty quickly after that and I asked, I said I want to see all these documents. I want to see the studies that say that my daughter is safe in the bathroom.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I want to see behavioral studies that this is typical behavior for this little boy because it's concerning behavior from my perspective that you should really look into because you're mandatory reporters. And I wanna see the gender support plan and I wanna ask questions about it. And while you're at it, also want to see any parallel documents you have to this gender support plan, you know. How are you gauging when these gender support plans are implemented? How do you gauge maybe the harm or confusion they're causing to other children at this young age?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Like, are you doing to be proactive to make sure that every child in that classroom is feeling safe and comfortable? And then what is your response when you see that it's making them uncomfortable like my daughter, you know, I'm sure there's a policy, some kind of document that we have in place for those cases if we're implementing these gender support plans, you know, into the school at any age. So I followed up in an email after that conversation asking for all those specific things and the wellness coordinator actually didn't even respond. Assistant superintendent then stepped in and she sent me three things at that point. She sent me the gender support plan policy for the district, and then she sent me two studies to kind of justify their claim that my daughter was safe in the bathroom.
Abe Baldonado:Just curious, do you know happen to know like who conducted those studies?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I I don't know. I have the specific studies that I could give you.
Abe Baldonado:Studies can always be Yeah. Biased, right? Absolutely. Depending on what institution is doing that study.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And, you know, I was really at that point really trying to learn and understand. So I really I looked into the studies and I could get them to you. I looked into them. And so one of the studies was 17 year olds and up. So that was the control group, right?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:The people that they surveyed for this study. It was 17 years old and up, so, you know, it wasn't for the age range that we And were talking then the people that were surveyed were only non binary and transgender people, so it didn't include like cisgender people's perspectives on, you know, around bathrooms. So I'm like, well, that doesn't apply at all. And then the other one was like a pediatric one, again, it was ages 13 to 17, so it didn't relate to the age group we're talking about here. And then again, it was only non binary and transgender youth.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It did not take into account cisgender youth at all. And so when I emailed back after looking into these studies, I told them that. I'm like neither of these studies apply here. So how are you using these studies to make these claims when you're telling me my daughter's safe? It doesn't work.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And then I looked at the gender support plan and that one was an interesting read because what I walked away asking, and I've asked very pointed questions to help me understand these gender support plans and the main ones was, is there like a licensed medical professional involved when you start implementing these gender support plans or refer these kids to gender affirming care, which includes like counseling, all these things, right? Is it a medical professional that kind of like first meets with the children and kind of works with them? And then my second question was, are parents immediately brought in? So if there's a child that's either claiming a different gender identity or having confusion about it, what is kind of what happens? And from those documents, I mean that child is brought directly to this wellness coordinator and then they decide kind of the next steps And the parents are like they're it's not required for the parent to be involved in that that process from the very beginning.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And that is very frightening to me. Yeah. But then let's say a parent's on board and a parent says, yes, I want my child to transition. I'm going to sign off so that you could change their pronouns and all the different school systems. Well, then that parent, you know, is involved in the decision to then put their biological, let's say, male child in the girl's bathroom.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:But then there isn't any type of opportunity for parents like me to then remove my child.
Abe Baldonado:Or create some sort of alternative like schedule. Right? Where if maybe my kid, you know, and other kids who don't feel comfortable go to the bathrooms at a separate time. Right? Like that this student doesn't go at the same time as these other girls.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So that was actually brought up as a solution or an accommodation that they gave my daughter kind of during all these talks, like we will try to send her at a different time than this other child. And I said, okay, great. Can you ensure that she's not in the bathroom with this child at all while she's during school hours? So I'm talking not only in their classroom, but recess PE technology, all their electives are Can you ensure that? And they said, no.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Well, we can't we can't ensure it because, know, only the teacher could try to stagger the when she sends the the kids to the bathroom. And so that was like, well, that's not like a great option, but maybe one to consider. But then talking with my daughter one night, she said, well, are there gonna be other boys in the bathroom with me? And that made me think, well, are there like sixth grade biological boys with gender support plans in the school? Because that would essentially mean like a 12 year old biological boy could potentially be in the bathroom with my daughter.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:While they might be staggering her classroom bathroom breaks, doesn't protect her other students within the school have these gender Especially older students, right? And that terrified me, you know? I'm like, no, no, no, no. You know, because you're obviously not going to tell
Abe Baldonado:me Exactly. If there is or
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It's just not at this age. It's just not okay. And they said, the sixth graders use the bathroom on the top and the younger kids use the bathroom on the bottom. Well, that's that's not a 100% of the time. Those older kids come down to the cafeteria.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:They come down for recess and art and technology and everything else we just talked about. And I'm like, you cannot guarantee her safety in the bathroom, like it doesn't matter if you're staggering their bathroom breaks, you know? So then the other accommodations they offered our daughter was that she could use the nurse's bathroom where all the sick kids go, right? I'm like, okay, no. That she could be removed from the class, which, I mean, how is that an
Abe Baldonado:accommodation Yeah, for it the situation.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It doesn't change the situation exactly, and that she could then just, they could move her out of the school and put her in a different school.
Abe Baldonado:Which to say that it's not happening at another school.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Exactly. Because it's it's a policy.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. I mean And, Christie, on that note, this policy, so is it a local policy? Like, the school develops? It's, like, not even state mandated. So the school just the school district takes it upon themselves to be like, we're gonna create this policy.
Abe Baldonado:And there's no state intervention. There's no state guidelines to say, here are the parameters. Here's the accountability. Here are the safety mechanisms built into this policy in your research. So is this derived from the state or is there a lack of state oversight?
Abe Baldonado:And these are just local school districts making these decisions.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So I I don't know for sure. So I know that the school districts, all of these gender support plans are very a little bit different, but gen generally the same, right, across New Mexico. So not all the school districts have them, but the main ones, you know, Los Alamos, Rio Rancho, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Las Cruces, you know, I know for sure have these gender support plans. And they're all a little different, so it's not like a standard one, but they're they're pretty much all allowed for the same things. I don't know what type of like oversight there comes from like the PED and what it says.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I I haven't really dove in, but I know that in conversations school staff did use house bill seven as kind of a justification of leaving parents out. So I did a lot of research into House Bill seven and I actually went and spoke to different legislators including like a sponsor of the bill so that I could understand kind of what it is. So my understanding of House Bill seven is that it is a health bill, that it is there so that minors have access to gender affirming care amongst other medical care.
Abe Baldonado:And abortion care as well.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. And that public bodies, including public schools, cannot interfere with a minor or child accessing that care. My concern with the bill is that it's being interpreted, so whether or not it was the intent, it's being interpreted that school or a teacher telling parents about a child's accessing this gender affirming care or whatever medical care could be viewed as they are blocking or interfering with that. So I'm not sure if they're using that to scare teachers and to, you know, not telling this type of information.
Abe Baldonado:Every parent should have the right
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:They yeah.
Abe Baldonado:To block this. Right? Like if my kid is under the age of 18 and they're in my household and they're under my care, I should be able to intervene at any time
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Right. I agree.
Abe Baldonado:To to have that conversation. Right?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And Yes.
Abe Baldonado:That that to me is just common sense. So the fact that New Mexico even passed this law
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I know.
Abe Baldonado:Is concerning for me and is concerning for our entire state because as parents and I don't know how many parents truly know that this law exists and and understandably so. Parents are busy. They're raising their kids. They're working. You know?
Abe Baldonado:And so I I don't always have expectations that they're gonna know about every piece of legislation that gets through the roundhouse. But this one is problematic when you say, parents, you can't even intervene. Like, we will keep it secret from you for your underage minor and then we could do whatever we want. We can provide them the services we want without your knowledge. Mhmm.
Abe Baldonado:Which is scary. And because you don't know. What if that child has a complication Mhmm. To to some sort of surgery, whether it's transgender, abortion, whatever it be. They go back home to you, a complication occurs, you have no idea what happened or where it came from.
Abe Baldonado:And then doctors, the schools are not even gonna tell you about that. Like, that is wild to me, Christie. It is wild.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It's scary. I mean, it's scary and you know, in the the my conversations I've had, the justification is always that, you know, some parents are not good parents and they're abusive parents or they'll kick their kids out after they maybe tell them something that the parents don't like.
Abe Baldonado:But What about the children? You know, my heart aches for for your child. My heart also aches for this other child, for him. Because clearly there's some traumas, there's some learned behavior there that Yeah. We should be saying, hey, this isn't normal for a six year old to act out this way.
Abe Baldonado:Where where is he learning this behavior from?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know, is there abuse? Exactly. Yeah. Mental Is health issue? Are we getting the right support and counseling as you mentioned earlier?
Abe Baldonado:Okay. Like, there a counselor starting off with this and having a conversation because there may potentially be some abuse here and we know that New Mexico is ranked very high for the abuse of children.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I agree.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I think it's important to bring families into the conversation for both reasons. Right? That I don't think that the majority of parents are bad parents. I think the majority of parents are loving and love their kids and whether they agree with them or not, they will love them through it. Right?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Like I I truly believe that most parents mean well. Not to say there's not some bad apples because of course there is, but even more so bring those parents in so that maybe a school staff or someone could identify that, you know. But to just as our legislature to pass a bill that says we don't trust the majority of parents, so we're gonna leave the majority you out.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Publicly funded institutions to care for your child instead
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:of you. I mean, I think that's really your response.
Abe Baldonado:Parents, you're you're irrelevant. We're removing you from a child's life. Yeah. Leave them to us.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. So the state did that and then these policies do that because, again, I've been told it's not true. It's not happening. Parents are absolutely involved, but I'm like, okay. Are they required?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Are they required to be involved from the very beginning and they have not been able to answer that question for me? I have, I mean, I have asked it multiple times at every level and they have never said The
Abe Baldonado:answer is simple, it's no.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It's no. They don't have to be involved until maybe the child wants them to be. Mhmm. Otherwise, they they don't. They do a lot the a lot of things, you know.
Abe Baldonado:And there's studies, you know, kids who receive gender affirming care at a very young age, You know, we'll counter this because there are studies out there that show that when a child, especially a minor, is going through that process, there's eventually regret later on. And there's trauma later on that they're like, why did I do this to myself? Why was I encouraged to do this? And Yeah. And that is very sad that like we should like feel very deeply for those kids who were exploited at a young age, not knowing what they were doing to themselves or what they were going through and getting the real support that they really really needed.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. I agree. I think that most of the children from based on the studies, you know, they just need a little bit of time and they will kind of And guidance. Work itself out. Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:But I also really feel for some of the parents in these situations because they're being scared.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:They're they're people are telling them really scary things about, you know, what could potentially happen to their children if they don't just jump jump on board and start supporting it. You know, if you push back even a little bit, you get called all kinds of names, they threaten to take your kids away, They they say that you're gonna kill your kid, you know, that I I really feel for parents that are having to deal with this truly because it's just there's a lot of scare tactics out there.
Abe Baldonado:And the organizations that like the Santa Fe New Mexican, I'm gonna call them out right now Mhmm. For gaslighting parents and for lying. Yeah. Blatantly lying. You know, I shared with you the article that the Santa Fe editorial board Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Posted. It says schools indoctrinating children. It's not happening.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. And
Abe Baldonado:here we have a real life parent saying, hey, here's what I'm facing in the school district. I'm not the only one. There's, you know, more recently after you came out some additional families and parents of now starting to speak out. So we're starting to see like, hey, no, this is more common than we think and it is happening.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah, it is happening. And I I also saw that article and it was It
Abe Baldonado:should be frustrating to you, right?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It's like to come from the editorial board, you know, I'm It was like, what? So I'll say this about that article, and if they're willing to really look into it, there's curriculum within the Santa Fe Public School District that's called Puberty of the Wonder Years. Okay? And in that curriculum, they teach fourth graders that gender is fluid, that there may be one, two, zero, many genders, that gender is detached from biological sex, and they teach this as like an unquestionable truth. Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Okay. Fourth graders, they're teaching that. Then they're asking these children to affirm it daily by using preferred gender pronouns for teachers, staff or even like their peers. Okay? And then they're sidelining parents.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:They're not even bring letting people parents know that this is, hey, this is what we're teaching your kids as unquestionable truth, and then we're making them talk in a certain way whether or not, like in my daughter's case, she knew she knew this was a little boy and that's why she was like could not even grasp the concept of like, why are we all calling him a girl? I think at one point she even told me, why is everybody lying? Don't understand.
Abe Baldonado:And the complexity of that conversation, right? To put fourth graders elementary kids. Yeah. In that conversation. I mean many rational adults would even find that conversation kind of complex and absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:Don't even know where to start that conversation. So we're saying kids can have we're gonna have this conversation with kids and I'm like, I as a grown adult would struggle and find this conversation very complex. And so we're doing this with fourth grade.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Well, it's on purpose too because they say that kids are very adaptable, but they're actually very impressionable.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And that's the difference.
Abe Baldonado:They are sponges.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. And then, you know, like I said in in previously, like we're sending them to schools saying, listen to your teacher, you know, they're there to teach you truth, but then you're getting lessons like that. Yeah. And then, you know, it's just it is indoctrination.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. It is. Christie, it starts right here. You know, I I printed out some. So when I worked for Think New Mexico, I led an effort to get financial literacy into our social studies standards.
Abe Baldonado:So kids can learn about money. You know, I ran into some uphill battles. We we were successful in that. And during that time, I know some other people worked on these standards as well, but there was some questionable changes to like social studies standards and I think a lot of the conversation that you're having now about the curriculum, it starts right here in these social studies standards, y'all. And so we'll we'll show you these.
Abe Baldonado:We'll provide a link to this. These are the official standards that were passed by our public education department, but they created a whole new curriculum in ethnic, cultural, and identity studies, diversity and identity. And, you know, you start throwing out just random, very vague, very broad learning standards of identify how individuals are similar and different. Why are we talking about our differences? As New Mexicans, we are more alike than we are different.
Abe Baldonado:So why are we creating this divisiveness? You know, because ultimately that's what you're doing. You're telling the young students say, why is that person different than me? And they're going to focus more on why is that person different rather than, hey, how are we similar? You know, what are our interests?
Abe Baldonado:You know, hey, you like to like these toys? I like these toys too, you know, like whatever. And so, you know, I I know there was a lot of pushback on this and I'm glad we were able to get financial literacy for kids because I think it's so important for especially New Mexico students where we have such significant poverty rates to to learn about money, about investing, learn about saving because I think that's the real way we combat poverty. But what I saw there and you know, I at that time I couldn't get involved in that conversation, but I saw what was happening with these standards and I'm like, that's not education. We're starting like a cultural war now and we're we're talking.
Abe Baldonado:We're having students learn about, you know, injustice and inequalities rather than, hey, how are how are we all created equal here as Americans? You know, what opportunities do we have like as citizens to say, hey, I I can go become a teacher. I can I can do whatever I want in life? Like that is the beauty of this country. And, you know, I saw these things starting to poke holes in some of the like the the foundations that you and I grew up with, you know, I'm a public school student as well and proud of it.
Abe Baldonado:I had amazing teachers who I truly believe looked out for my best interest and made sure that I learned what I had to to be a significant and very, you know, wise participant in society, you know, understanding our history ways I can get involved and be proactive, you know, understanding civics history. Right? And so for me, it's frustrating that we've now pushed this on our schools and unfortunately, these come from higher up, right? These companies state departments and now as you said, we are teachers are feeling these pressures of cultural wars.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yes. And that's actually what I was gonna say. There's like, I'm in no way accusing teachers for indoctrinating our kids because I think that there are a lot of really, really great teachers out there.
Abe Baldonado:But they're probably also being threatened.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Right? Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Teacher, if you don't agree with this, you're you're not compassionate. You're a terrible person. Yeah. I've lot of fearful of that.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. I've had a lot of teachers come up to me privately and just saying like, we don't agree with it, but our jobs are I mean, our livelihood. But
Abe Baldonado:That's so unfortunate. I'm a former educator. Yeah. That gets me so upset. I know.
Abe Baldonado:And it makes me really feel for
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:these Yeah. There's good teachers out there. They're doing the best that they can to protect kids with what they have, but it's these policies, it's what the districts are putting on them. They compromise these teachers' morals and values a lot, and they feel just so stuck because they need their jobs or because a lot of them say I love my kids and Yeah. It's better than I'm there with them protecting them than it is to just say, okay, I'm done because of all the all the craziness all, you know, that they've they've started in these schools.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:So I mean, think yes, you and I are on the same page that there's these teachers are great. They're great teachers. They're just really stuck in a bad position because the higher ups, right? Are the ones that are putting these policies together, these laws together.
Abe Baldonado:And interest groups. Right? Like these are outside organizations that are coming from outside of New Mexican because these aren't New Mexican values. We know that. I know.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. We know our people more better than anyone. We know like, hey, yeah, this isn't it. So now you have these outside interest groups coming and lobbying and pushing agendas in our state and at our roundhouse and they're creating these laws based on these outside groups that have these agendas.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. And it's not for the greater public. For It the greater good of all their students. Right?
Abe Baldonado:It doesn't align to New Mexican values.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It doesn't. And so, you know, with you saying that when they came to me and asked me if I would publish the article about our family, you know, was a hard yes for me to make. And you know, they said you could do it anonymously, but I just told my husband, you know anonymously then every new Mexican could read that article and then kind of just that's a bummer and kind of push it to the side.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Like how true is it?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Exactly. Because there's not a face to it. And then I said, you know, you know what, if I show my face, then they'll know I'm part of their community. They've known me since elementary school.
Abe Baldonado:They say that to me at church.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Exactly. Our kids play basketball together like I'm a real person that it happened to. It's not something that you hear or that the press says, oh, it's not really happening in these
Abe Baldonado:Or this person is just hateful and spiteful. Exactly.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. I mean, I've been accused of that. Let me tell you. I've been called so many names
Abe Baldonado:Oh, sure. Because you're you're speaking truth and a lot of people sometimes don't like that. Yeah. They they get very nasty.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. And again, my intention is like, I'm here because I want parental rights and I want them for every parent whether or not their child has a gender support plan or not. I want the schools to start partnering with parents and not shutting them out. I want the state officials to to understand that those children are ours, not theirs.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Bring accountability into the system. Yeah. Right? Bring bring systemic change like this is the true systemic change that, hey, our kids are gonna be safe in school.
Abe Baldonado:They're not gonna be pushed at very young ages to talk about things that are far above and beyond their
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Just not appropriate.
Abe Baldonado:Capabilities to understand.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:No. Just curious. I I know you you've now, like, put yourself out there. Your stories out there. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:I know you've engaged with legislators lately. How has that experience been? Like, are are you seeing some positive momentum now? Like, hey. Legislators are listening to these issues.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:You know, I've met with both Republicans and Democrats, and I'll say that for the most part, they've been very kind to me. A few of them haven't listened to my story or totally dismissed it or not even giving me the time of day, but I would say the majority have listened, have talked to me, we've brainstormed about kind of what can we do. I haven't met with the majority of them. It's just been a select few, but the ones I have met with except for the, know, the two that weren't very nice to me.
Abe Baldonado:Well, they probably weren't nice because they're the guilty party.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Probably probably now that I think about it, but you know, it's it's hopeful because I know that we're living in a time of such just
Abe Baldonado:rage. Yeah. Everything has to be a fight and one person against another and not like, hey, can we agree this is an issue here?
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And that's exactly it. Right? It's not a right versus left issue as far as I'm concerned. I would I would like to work with any legislator that is willing to try to figure this out with me because it's a parental rights issue and Democrats, Republicans, Independents alike should all care about that. Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:You know, so
Abe Baldonado:Parents are the number one educator. They like, you are Yeah. The person, you are raising this life.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. And regardless of the kind of the the path your kids take, I think they will always be better off with you by their side.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Helping them make decisions because parents will ask questions that kids not aren't necessarily know to ask or even have the brain development to ask, right? We know this. Parents, I I believe again that the majority of them love their kids and whether or not they agree with the path these kids are taking, they still want to make sure they're safe. They're accessing safe medical care, right? They could push back if they feel like something doesn't sound right.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:I think every child in state of New Mexico, but you know, nationwide in the world is better off when they have a support system and you know, if it's not a parent, it's a grandparent, somebody that loves have
Abe Baldonado:that support system in place.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Exactly. That
Abe Baldonado:student doesn't, that that's a whole different conversation.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Exactly.
Abe Baldonado:A kid that has both mom and dad, grandma, grandpa, you know, their garden involved. Yeah. Let's leverage that.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And I think that schools could partner with parents, right? Say here's what your child's dealing with here, you know, these are resources we could provide your family. These are whatever, but at least the parents involved at that point, right? There's multiple people with the best interest at heart for this child, but I can I just can't for the life of me think that the schools are acting in the best interest of the child when they're leaving parents out?
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. Well, Christie, we appreciate your time. You will always have a place here on the Chili Wire to tell your story, share your updates and just thank you for putting yourself out there, bringing awareness, and having this conversation with compassion and just really caring about, hey, you know, families, I'm gonna stand up for you. I'm gonna have this conversation. I'm gonna tell my story.
Abe Baldonado:And so thank you. Thank you for making The Chile Wire the first exclusive podcast to have this conversation, Christie. And, you know, we wish you all the best as you continue to navigate, you know, fighting back against these systems and these policies and, you know, if there's anything that we could ever do to help bring awareness, please always let us know.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Thank you. No. Just having me here is just a great opportunity because I just hope that being, you know, coming forth with my story that hopefully other parents will too. Absolutely. Because the message I continue getting is that it's just not happening.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Like this is a one off case, it's not. Mean, many parents have shared shared with me privately that it is happening.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. It's not just New Mexico.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:It's not. No. But parents need to start standing up and say, it is happening to me. Here's my story. And I know it's scary because I was scared Yeah.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:For a long time.
Abe Baldonado:As a parent.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Yeah. But you know what? That's more important. Our children are more important than us being scared to speak out and the names we might be called in doing so. Our kids deserve better from us.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:They deserve for us to have these hard conversations like we talked about that, you know, they're not pleasant conversations. They're very controversial, but they're important because there's kid they're kids.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. And we need that for their future.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:And not just my child, right? Not just my child, but every child. It it really matters. So parents, please come forward with your own stories. Please do your due diligence when it comes to your your kids' schools.
Kristy Borrego Ojinaga:Go look at these policies, push back when you don't agree with them, go to the school board meetings, let other parents know, so that we, you know, we're all doing what we need to to take care of all of our children and make sure that they're, you know, first and foremost, we have the ability to make decisions alongside them or for them, however young they are, But, you know, that you're there to advocate for them. So thank you.
Abe Baldonado:Thank you, Christie. Think we can't finish off better than that. Thank you so much, Christie. Just truly impactful, just very enlightening conversation. And thank you so much for sharing it.
Abe Baldonado:Thank you for sharing it with our audience, and I hope more New Mexicans get to see and hear our conversation today. Me too. Thank you, Christie. God bless you. God bless your family.
Abe Baldonado:Thank you. And y'all, thank you for following The Chile Wire, and we'll see you next time.