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Best Beginnings is the podcast for everyone working in or caring about the early years. Hosted by George Looker, CEO of Babyzone, each episode brings together leading researchers, clinicians, practitioners, policymakers and parents to explore the evidence, ideas and innovations shaping how we support children and families in the UK.
From infant mental health and attachment to workforce challenges and systems change, Best Beginnings goes beyond the headlines to have the conversations that matter most in early childhood.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Best Beginnings is brought to you by Babyzone, a national charity operating free, evidence-based family hubs across England for families with children aged 0–5.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:10:22
Unknown
Welcome to Best Beginnings, the podcast from Baby Zone, about what happens in the earliest years of a child's life and why those years matter more than almost anything else.
00:00:11:01 - 00:00:23:09
Unknown
I'm George Lucas, CEO of Baby Zone, and my guest today has spent the better part of a decade trying to influence what the state does for babies and their families, first from inside government and now outside
00:00:23:11 - 00:00:48:22
Unknown
He served as Minister for Early Education, held further ministerial roles across health and welfare, and spent nine years as the MP for Colchester and now as the first ever chief executive of the One and One Critical Days Foundation. He is trying to do something that politicians rarely get to do. Build a long term, cross-party, international case for investing in the period between pregnancy and the age of two.
00:00:48:22 - 00:01:07:03
Unknown
His argument is both moral and economic. What happens in the first thousand and one days shapes a child's brain development, their stress response and their capacity for relationships. Get it right and the downstream benefits are enormous. Get it wrong, and the costs ripple through the public system for decades.
00:01:07:05 - 00:01:12:00
Unknown
Will Quince. Welcome to Best Beginnings. Thank you so much for joining today. Thank you for having me.
00:01:12:01 - 00:01:26:22
Unknown
So I was lucky enough to be at your first birthday party a couple of weeks ago. What an amazing event. All of the amazing charities that you had hosted in the room. How have you been able to have such a big impact in just one year?
00:01:26:24 - 00:01:32:05
Unknown
Well, I mean, for a start, I've only been here for three months, so I'm relatively new, so I can't take credit for all of that.
00:01:32:06 - 00:01:58:16
Unknown
The credit really has to go to Dame Andrea Leadsom, who founded our foundation, the 1001 Critical Days Foundation. And of course, the team in terms of what's I suppose have been the driving motivators. I mean, Damon really is at the heart of that because it's the work that she's done for the I think it is about 30 years now, both inside and outside of government that has led to this and her stepping down from Parliament and away from government and politics and setting up a foundation.
00:01:58:16 - 00:02:19:08
Unknown
She's now pursuing her passion outside of government, in the charitable sector. So so it really is her that is driving us forward and has this sort of level of ambition. But in terms of the sort of three approaches, we take one bit the research, the second, the grant funding, which then support that research, and then thirdly, the bit that ties it all together, which is the advocacy work.
00:02:19:09 - 00:02:39:00
Unknown
I think that is the magic combination, which I think has meant that we have had a really successful first year. And thank you very much for saying that. And I guess, you know, so we'll all be interested to hear about all of the work that you're doing across those three strands. As we start with the money, that's where people are most interested oftentimes.
00:02:39:00 - 00:03:04:17
Unknown
So you've allocated about 1.5 million pounds across different charities and grants, and you've got a second round that's closing soon. I think you've also published Screen Time guidance and review and also sort of tenders now in Norway and South Africa as well. If you look back in your first three months. What has stood out for you as being the piece of work that you're most proud of?
00:03:04:19 - 00:03:36:21
Unknown
Well, I mean, I think there have been several actually, but I think that there there have been. Let's take two in particular. So the first I would say is it's going to be around down to mental health. So some research we commissioned through Swansea University and the the outcomes of that were really sobering. If you look at the dads and the suicide rate in particular, the fact that if you extrapolate that data up from Wales to the United Kingdom, it's up to three babies a week that are losing their dance to suicide.
00:03:36:21 - 00:04:03:06
Unknown
And then you link that to a lack of perinatal mental health support for men. We're going to look at doing far more work in that space, both research and work on our advocacy front. But I think that's the one that's probably stood out to me the most. And it was on the back of that that a decision was taken to support the rollout of Dad Matters, which I think is really exciting to the tune of 1 million pounds.
00:04:03:06 - 00:04:22:10
Unknown
So a really significant investment. But that will be rolled out nationwide with that support. And then the second is the screen time guidance. And I think because it's such a I know having two children myself just how a bit older now than, than than the age group that we look after at ten and 14, mine are. But I remember how tough it was with screens and it's getting tougher and tougher.
00:04:22:12 - 00:04:43:23
Unknown
So to to help to be able to in some respect validate the position the government's recently taken on screen time, where they're saying it should be avoided for babies or those that are under two. I think giving that additional layer evidence through through our review, I think has been really, really helpful and added weight to the case and I hope that there's going to be more action.
00:04:43:23 - 00:05:08:24
Unknown
In fact, I know there will be more action that will follow as a result of it. Yeah, I think it's such important research. We know our families that we speak to constantly have questions. They don't know what the right approach is. And what I really liked about the report that you published, and the sort of way that you've communicated publicly is around it being a shared responsibility to between parents and the government around what is it that we can do to help?
00:05:09:00 - 00:05:30:14
Unknown
It's not about judging people, but really helping find a solution in your mind or on behalf of the foundation. What do you think is the sort of the the solution here? How can we go about finding that shared approach where kind of responsibility is supporting families rather than. Yeah, it's it's a it's a really tough one, isn't it.
00:05:30:14 - 00:05:57:05
Unknown
Because I think we were really, really concerned, even at the outset of commissioning the research that we didn't want in any way to blame or shame parents, because parenting is tough and it's tough when it's going well and things are relatively straightforward if you add in life's other complexities. If you look at the research and the number of parents that were spoken to as part of that research, it can be seen that the screen was being used as much to soothe the baby as it was to soothe the parent.
00:05:57:05 - 00:06:14:20
Unknown
And sometimes, you know, things are tough and you do just need some time to get other jobs done. And it can be easy to reach for the screen. So we wanted it to be in no way judgmental. And so I think it is. You're right. It's not just about parents, it's about information. And parents are crying out for information they want.
00:06:14:21 - 00:06:47:01
Unknown
They want to know what's appropriate, what's not appropriate, what's going to be harmful, what's okay in moderation. And and I think our research will help towards that alongside the government guidance. I think the government has a role to play in making sure that the guidance they put out, it can't just stop there. It's got to make sure that it is amplified through health visitors, through what any, any arm of the state that is able to interact with parents, to help just reinforce that message and give parents the guidance about appropriate screen time, or in the case of under to avoid it.
00:06:47:03 - 00:07:05:24
Unknown
And then there's a wider role as well around helping give parents other things to do. So family hubs is another good example where there's that human interaction. You know, parenting can be daunting, it can be lonely, it can be isolating a place that you can go like a family hub or a baby zone where you can go and have that face to face interaction with other parents.
00:07:05:24 - 00:07:25:12
Unknown
You can get that peer support. It's so, so valuable. So I think the more opportunities that there are. So for example, I would say to the government, you know, we're rolling out family hubs across the country. That's brilliant. They're rolling out to the other half of local authorities, but that needs to be stepped up now with the Healthy Babies program alongside that to complete the job and then to roll them out even further.
00:07:25:12 - 00:07:47:23
Unknown
So every community, every parent has access to that family hub network. And as you say, it's an exciting time in the early space, the government's policy around extending the Family Hubs program, trying to reach more families with a sort of hub that they can go and meet a wider range of support in one place is great in the ambition we're fully behind.
00:07:48:03 - 00:08:13:12
Unknown
Why do you think now is the moment? For early years, obviously we've had the emergence of your foundation and there it feels like there is a bit of a coalition of people that are starting to get really excited about supporting the 1001 critical days and everything else. I hope so, I really hope so. And I still think we've got work to do, even across the UK and all our home nations, but internationally we've got a lot of work to do in this space too.
00:08:13:13 - 00:08:39:02
Unknown
I think there is greater and greater recognition of the importance of early childhood, and there are more and more voices, including the Royal Foundation, including yours, that babies own, us that are making that the case for early intervention and investment in in babies, because it is that point at which early intervention has the greatest effect. You can prevent often many of society's challenges down the line.
00:08:39:02 - 00:09:08:23
Unknown
You can get upstream where it's not only much cheaper, it's far more likely to be effective. And thinking back to when I was a politician and all of the burning platforms that preoccupy politicians minds today, you look back and you think, how many of these could have been prevented if we just wrapped our arms around, metaphorically, parents and babies and gave them the support to be the good enough parents that they want to be, and help with all those things like relationships and feeding and crying and sleeping.
00:09:08:23 - 00:09:28:01
Unknown
The things that parents we know parents really struggle with, give them the information and the support to be the good enough parents they want to be. We're going to have much better outcomes down the line. And by the way, when we have to tackle these issues, these burning platforms, they're really expensive. And often the interventions sadly don't work and lead to poor outcomes.
00:09:28:01 - 00:09:46:18
Unknown
So I think there's greater recognition now that if we if we can invest early, it'll actually save money in the long run, but also we're going to lead to a healthier society and have better outcomes for the individual baby and parents. That's what we will hope for, isn't it? And it feels like, as you say, there's a nice bit of momentum in the space.
00:09:46:19 - 00:10:12:16
Unknown
But I know that from our previous conversations, you can't take it for granted. We all know about the Shore Start program and what's happened to children's centers. And, you know, plenty of evidence there about the profound work, the profound impact that initiative had. But it didn't last forever. So we now need to recreate some of it. That's obviously part of what Baby Zone exists to do, as well as obviously, the government's best start in life family hubs program.
00:10:12:18 - 00:10:34:07
Unknown
Guess why do you think we missed the evidence? Why do you think that for whatever reason, the policy agenda didn't continue to prioritize? It's a it's a really good question. And and I think politicians are often guilty of focusing on the big challenges of the day. So what's immediately in front of them, what I would call burning platforms.
00:10:34:07 - 00:10:58:08
Unknown
And then sometimes it's hard then because you lose track of the prevention agenda. And the NHS is a really good example of that is getting better. It's getting better every year, but we're still not there. We still focus on tackling the acute issue in front of us, not necessarily how we could get ahead of it. And and I think in one of the challenges might be that actually early is an early is just isn't a contested space in the way that so many other political issues are.
00:10:58:08 - 00:11:17:04
Unknown
So in some respects, it's good that there isn't the politics in this. I don't think there's anybody saying that we shouldn't invest in babies and young and young children, but but I think there is a real challenge that if you spoke to most politicians, they say, yeah, yeah, of course, you know, supporting parents and investing in babies is important, but they don't.
00:11:17:05 - 00:11:43:11
Unknown
They couldn't actually articulate why and just how important it is. And if you if you want to get ahead of some of those, those huge challenges like educational attainment and employability and access to your criminal justice system or your prison population or mental health and physical health, and you knew then how much of that is directly linked. Things like relationship breakdown, your in-built response system, how much of that is formed in those formative years?
00:11:43:12 - 00:12:03:24
Unknown
80% of your brain is developed by the age of two. Now, if politicians and policymakers just knew, just knew how important that period was, I don't think we'd have been in the position we sure start and there is a peace around Sure Start. You know, money was tight. They look at where savings can be made. There was defunding to local authorities and then taking away ring fencing.
00:12:03:24 - 00:12:19:13
Unknown
And then decisions are made locally. But I think we need to make the case not just at a national level or international level. We have to make it a local level too. So politicians are seeing this as no, no, no. Whatever else happens, however type money is, this is where we need to invest our money, because this is where we're going to see the long term returns.
00:12:19:13 - 00:12:37:14
Unknown
But also this is where we're going to have the biggest societal impact. What sort of society? Do you want to see in 20 or 30 years? What kind of human beings do you want to be in our society in 20, 30 years? And if you want them to be the sort of human beings that we want and expect to see, invest in them, invest in parents and invest in babies, I love that time horizon.
00:12:37:14 - 00:12:59:01
Unknown
We've got to be patient enough to wait for the evidence 20, 30 years down the track. And I guess the question will be for for yourself and for the foundation. What does success look like in a decades time? In two decades time, what would you like the what's the policy environment to look like? But for those families, those children that have been brought through in this generation, what is.
00:12:59:02 - 00:13:23:17
Unknown
Yes, what would I love to see? I mean, I'm trying to sort of channel my in in a day managerial Leadsom here as well. What would she love to see and our board of trustees like to see? I think it would be a world in which all 193 UN member states recognize, but also prioritize the 1001 critical date so that period from pregnancy to age two, they recognize its importance and they invest in it.
00:13:23:17 - 00:13:45:06
Unknown
And going back to the shore start point, I'd love it if they in some way protected it, whether they protect budgets or legislate or whatever they do. I think whichever way, visibly, they can demonstrate that they prioritize, that they get that period. That sort of in my mind, what an amazing outcome would be in terms of a world in which politicians, policy makers globally recognize and invest in in that period.
00:13:45:07 - 00:14:16:13
Unknown
And I think, where does our role come into that? I think our role is that we want to be out there making the case. I actually think the science is pretty settled, but I think we can always go further. So there's always more research to be done, and we will look to support it and to translate it and explain it and put it into as easy a format for politicians and policymakers to understand and comprehend, and to use as possible to back it up through grants for projects that that demonstrate the science, that prove what works and shows what can be scalable.
00:14:16:13 - 00:14:35:06
Unknown
Because frankly, it's only really governments that can really turn the dial on this. And charities have a role to play, but it's governments that can really turn the dial by investing and prioritizing this period and then making the case to politicians or advocacy work and policy makers to to show them that that this is possible and this is what you can achieve.
00:14:35:06 - 00:14:48:16
Unknown
And you're right, we did talk about the long term and there is a long term benefit, but there's a short term benefit as well, not just to the individual baby and the family, but also economically. And we're going to do far more to try and make the short term economic case as well as the medium and the long.
00:14:48:16 - 00:15:12:03
Unknown
That's fantastic. Yeah. Look, well, we know we see it every week with the families that we engage with, seeing them grow and become more confident and feel like they have a community that they're part of is really inspiring to us. And I know that you also are keen advocates of that and building communities, and we're enormously grateful for for your voice in this space as well.
00:15:12:03 - 00:15:29:12
Unknown
And, you know, we touched on the fact that there's a bit of a consensus, perhaps in the UK around what the government is doing. What's your experience been like when you've been going to Norway and South Africa and the UAE and all the different places? Now that you're also conducting research, is there then nothing that's been particularly surprising to you?
00:15:29:13 - 00:15:45:12
Unknown
I think every every country is at different stages, and I'm due to go out to Norway again soon. I haven't been over to South Africa and UAE, but the team have and they're starting work there. We're hoping to go to the States as well soon. There are all at different stages and I think we need to learn from each other.
00:15:45:12 - 00:16:12:05
Unknown
And, you know, I think there is different practice in every country. There's no one country that has got this spot on. There's there's there's there's no monopoly on good ideas. So I think we we need to support each other and collectively make the case. And where there is really good practice abroad, we're very keen to amplify that and to work with, with, with governments, wherever they they are, to help make that case for prioritizing and investing in the 1001 critical days.
00:16:12:07 - 00:16:35:23
Unknown
And I often think it's about the perception, sometimes what's going on in those countries. What are they thinking about the UK? Are they also seeking to learn from us? Is there anything that perhaps the foundation might be taking going? Well, look, this is what the government, this is what you and we're working on. Is there anything you hope to translate that working in the UK to other contexts?
00:16:35:24 - 00:16:51:12
Unknown
I mean, I think there is some really good practice in the UK. I mean, family hubs are really a really good example, the best start family hubs and the best start and life program, the Healthy Babies program. There's some really, really good examples, but I think we're also really careful not to be just going around the world saying, look at this model.
00:16:51:12 - 00:17:11:07
Unknown
You could have this too, because actually there are some really good models, some excellent models elsewhere. And also the particular models wouldn't necessarily work in every format. What we want to do is make the case for the investment to show the science is settled, the evidence is clear, and that we can hopefully show over a short term, medium and long term certainly can live in the middle.
00:17:11:07 - 00:17:31:19
Unknown
We're working on the short term, make an economic case because I think if you can, if you can make three cases, you can win a political argument. The first is the societal case. Can you change make a change that can benefit society both for one individual baby, a parent's, a family unit, a community, or a country? Can you make that societal case?
00:17:31:19 - 00:17:46:13
Unknown
So I think in this case, we absolutely can make that case. I think it's a relatively easy one to make. There's a moral argument for investment. Then there's the financial case, which is treasuries. You know, because they speak numbers, they look at the societal case. But really it's are we going to save? Are we going to save money?
00:17:46:14 - 00:18:19:13
Unknown
How much is this going to cost and how much is it going to save? I think we can make that case too. And then there's the political case. Right. So is this popular? Is investing in babies and families popular? Well, yes, I think it is. And I think we can make that case too. I would agree, although obviously not impartial perhaps, but I think you're right in terms of how can we make sure that families recognize that there are support out there, but also politicians, whether they be local or national, they sometimes need to be kind of need to see what good looks like and see what, you know.
00:18:19:16 - 00:18:46:07
Unknown
The provision could be in their area, what the family hubs are doing, what different voluntary organizations that sort of partnership across the early years ecosystem is vital I guess. What are you most proud of in terms of seeing different initiatives, different charities that you've worked with so far, wide array of different organizations that the thousand and one Critical Days Foundation has already supported.
00:18:46:09 - 00:19:02:06
Unknown
Who's who do you think is making the biggest impact? Where would you like to go even further? So I am not going to answer that question because because only because I just don't think it would be fair to single out particular cases of grants that that we've made, some of some of whom are only just getting started and others in this new round.
00:19:02:06 - 00:19:27:19
Unknown
We haven't even announced yet who the successful bidders are going to be. But but I think what are we all about? It's about supporting organizations who are out there working to build better world for babies. And if there are programs out there that we can help to to demonstrate that they have real impact, real world impact for babies that can be scalable, not necessarily just in the UK, but actually globally.
00:19:27:19 - 00:19:50:00
Unknown
We are keen to help make that case. And it would be, I think, wrong of me to just pick out an example or a couple of examples because they are so different. It could be one focusing on sleep, it can be one on parent infant relationships. It can be a small family hub or a small community setting in a or even say which part of the country, because I ought to give things away to our latest grant round.
00:19:50:00 - 00:20:21:20
Unknown
But they're all doing different things. But what I love is their passion. Drive to deliver for babies, families and carers in their communities and the difference that they want to make. And we're so proud to be supporting them. And if we can then take that evidence and through a chorus who's our partner in demonstrating impact, show to governments that this is scalable and then show the difference you can make society, but then also the financial savings, the impact that you can have on both respects.
00:20:21:20 - 00:20:38:14
Unknown
And then if we can tag on actually politically, this is really popular feeding into that sort of political narrative as well. I think we can we can make a solid case for scaling up many of these projects. I apologize, I was being unfair, perhaps asking you to pick your favorite, and that certainly wasn't my intention. And I was.
00:20:38:16 - 00:21:14:00
Unknown
I guess I've been reading through your impact report and going and seeing all of those amazing organizations. They're fantastic, aren't they? And it's it's we're really proud to support them and the work that they're, they're doing and there's there's so much more to come. And then we're looking to do more of that internationally as well. And there's one case that I looked at and sort of, you know, it's one of those, I think sort of a marmalade dropper or a sort of, you know, the support that you've done for for baby sick and sort of domestic abuse in terms of how that can start or escalate during pregnancy.
00:21:14:00 - 00:21:37:02
Unknown
And, you know, the number of referrals to children's social care each year. It's linking back to domestic abuse as a factor. You know, all of these sorts of things sit right at the heart. I think of what you were trying to sort of change, and I guess, you know, you funded that right at the beginning, right? The inception of of 1001 critical days, how, how sort of working with those types of organizations informed your approach going forward?
00:21:37:03 - 00:21:58:23
Unknown
Well, you picked one out. So I can talk about I can talk about that now. And you're you're absolutely right. And you when you you look at the stats, around 40% of domestic violence starts with a joint pregnancy or baby in the household. It's it's totally tragic. And often we forget how just vulnerable babies are. And I remember this from my time as children and families minister.
00:21:58:23 - 00:22:22:15
Unknown
I think 1 in 3 reports of homicide of a child, and I remember having these reports, I think they were on a weekly basis, but they were always horrific reading. 1 in 3 was a baby under one. You are most at risk of age cohort of homicide under the age of one. The second biggest cohort is between 1 and 2.
00:22:22:16 - 00:22:47:10
Unknown
And that's we forget just the vulnerability of babies that we are. We are born wholly reliant on a loving human caregiver. And there is there is so much more work that I think we can do to show politicians and policymakers of the vulnerability of babies and how, just with some extra support for parents and and carers, we can help to change that.
00:22:47:11 - 00:23:10:03
Unknown
Now, sadly, there are always going to be. I say that with great sadness, tragic, tragic cases that we're going to read in the press and they are horrific and the state should do everything it possibly can to stop them. But anything we can do to help, as in society, to help provide support for for parents, especially those experiencing domestic abuse, we should try and do so.
00:23:10:03 - 00:23:27:11
Unknown
And we're very proud to be supporting the babies sake for all the work they do, which is incredible. And again, you spoke earlier about amplifying causes and being able to say, look, really advocating on behalf of children that don't have a voice. You know, the babies that can't speak for themselves, you know, you're filling that gap, I guess, and stepping up.
00:23:27:11 - 00:23:53:01
Unknown
So it's an enormous thank you, really for your organization, for work you're doing to support those charities, but also those vulnerable children. And I guess to move forward, thinking about your career in the sanctuary buildings or in sort of the point for health and thinking about your role as a minister, what is it that you would like to see the rollout of the family halves continue to do to extend further?
00:23:53:02 - 00:24:32:09
Unknown
Go do even more of if you were Olivia Bailey or in her team working with her, what would the kind of given the experience you've had? And actually sometimes coming out of a job means you could do that job differently the next time. What would you be saying? It does. I was so fortunate, I think, to be able to have spent time at the Department of Education in the Children of Families brief and then latterly at the Department of Health and Social Care, because you see both sides and I think in both cases, I think what both roles taught me and showed me was the value and the importance of early intervention and the cost
00:24:32:09 - 00:25:00:03
Unknown
of both human wise and and financial cost of not, and getting it wrong. I actually think that the current government, I have a lot of time for live Bailey. I have a lot of time for West treating Bridget Phillips and Josh McAllister. There are some really great people who really get it, and I think the fact that they are committed to continuing the rollout of the Best Start Family hubs, already DFA partner for education, are rolling out to the other local authorities, Department for Health and Social Care.
00:25:00:04 - 00:25:26:14
Unknown
I know the ambition is to roll out the Healthy Babies program to the remaining family hubs. They're not there yet. And you know, I would just continually as I Hodgson another great example a new minister absolutely fantastic totally gets this agenda. So I'd push the department to go further, roll out that healthy babies program. And just to go even further and I think break down those silos between the Department for education and the Department of Health, which sadly existed, and in part that's Treasury driven and part Cabinet Office number ten driven.
00:25:26:14 - 00:25:47:19
Unknown
But the closer they can work together on this agenda, the better. But then for wider government to see that actually the investment in education and health in babies and through family hubs and in those services, you're actually going to save across government, you're going to save in other departments that don't have the budget responsibility, but they're going to benefit.
00:25:47:19 - 00:26:21:07
Unknown
So trying to get them to recognize that and see this as a medium and long term investment by supporting those two departments, there are other departments that should be really behind what DFA and DHS are doing, those long term outcomes and the cost of society, as you say, enormous. We're missing the opportunity making that early intervention. And I guess reflecting on your time in those sort of offices, is there a decision that you'd now make differently or one that you didn't make that you wish you had have done, or a phone call to the Treasury that you wish you would have made?
00:26:21:08 - 00:26:56:03
Unknown
What what would that have been? I mean, I pushed my luck a bit in in all the departments I was in, I, I kind of wish just with hindsight and it's easier to say in hindsight now than when I was in government. I had just been a bit more muscular when it came to, I mean, I worked with some really great secretaries of state that were empowering and did support me, but it was definitely frustrating to come up with ideas and concepts and have them blocked or not funded by Treasury or number ten, when you knew the difference that they would go on to to make.
00:26:56:04 - 00:27:13:13
Unknown
And, you know, some of some of them actually, I won't go to sort of detail and now actually only bearing fruit now with the new government and that's fine. It's fantastic to see that they are sort of coming through and into fruition because things take time, especially in the health space, less so in the education space. But I think I wish I'd been a bit more muscular with Treasury.
00:27:13:13 - 00:27:32:23
Unknown
And I know you were a former special adviser, but but sometimes it was really frustrating, frankly, to have been elected and then appointed by the Prime Minister as a minister and then have a special adviser in number ten or the Treasury say, no, we're not funding that. And that was just hugely frustrating. But it is part of the process and I sort of get why that's in place.
00:27:32:23 - 00:27:56:23
Unknown
But I think I wish I'd just been a bit more muscular and just pushed, pushed harder for things and sometimes also just I suppose it's easier to say with hindsight, but just try to look at tackling more issues upstream. And part of my job now is to try and help policymakers today learn from my experience and and help help to get into a better place.
00:27:56:24 - 00:28:22:12
Unknown
And that's the really important piece. Again, you go back to where you started on the three different strands of work that the foundations focused on and that advocacy, making sure that there's a long term commitment. You sort of spoke about ring fencing funding, potentially. I mean, what do you think is on the next election cycle, we've got a sort of tumultuous time in Westminster, but I feel like that's going to be always the case now for forever.
00:28:22:16 - 00:28:39:22
Unknown
What would you be doing, you know, for the next two years, three years ahead of the next election? Really small things. Do you think that could move the needle to really support families and make that case for this? Yeah. So I mean, I think the first thing is, is continuing the rollout of the best Start family hubs. So I think that's absolutely key.
00:28:39:23 - 00:29:08:16
Unknown
I think perinatal and mental health support, it's pretty good for for mums around the country. Not not perfect but pretty good for dads, I'm afraid. It is largely non-existent. And I think we need to. Our research and our support for dad matters and the rollout through Home Start UK is a good example of of. We hope to make the case that the state should do more and support more dads with perinatal mental health support, but I think the the, the more support we can give parents.
00:29:08:16 - 00:29:31:02
Unknown
In those early years, I was reading a really interesting stat from the ONS that showed 2026 is likely to be the first year and and afraid it's likely to continue where the birth rate will be lower than the death rate. Now that should be a huge wake up call for us. Now, there are bound to be many, many reasons why that is the case, but I think one of the reasons is we don't do enough to support parents when you have a baby.
00:29:31:03 - 00:29:49:18
Unknown
And again, there's a few years ago for me now, but I remember it being it was joyous, it was wonderful. It was incredible. I was so proud to be a dad. But I remember also that it was difficult. It was isolating. It was daunting. It was a really scary experience. And and it puts stress on our relationship as a couple.
00:29:49:18 - 00:30:12:08
Unknown
And, and sometimes I do, in fact, not sometimes. I often look at that now and think, now, if you layer on some of life's other complexities via insecure housing or poverty or mental health or physical health, and just think all those other challenges are still there, but you've got those additional challenges. So we need as a state, I think, to really I know they say it takes a village to raise a child.
00:30:12:09 - 00:30:34:00
Unknown
The state needs to help be that village, especially now with grandparents don't necessarily live close by anymore. That's not always the norm. Grandparent A lot of grandparents are working now. They don't necessarily couples. Parents, carers don't often have that support network that they used to have. So there is a role for the state to step in. And that's not me suggesting some nanny statist approach.
00:30:34:01 - 00:30:55:03
Unknown
It's me suggesting that the more support that you give to parents in the earliest years, the better the outcomes are going to be for that baby. For those parents, you can break cycles, vicious cycles and turn them into virtuous cycles. Unsurprisingly, babies that have great parenting or good enough parenting will go on most probably to become good enough parents themselves.
00:30:55:03 - 00:31:34:01
Unknown
And you're going to see those huge benefits societally, but also financially. And I would make the case to politicians, if you invest in babies, invest in families, you reap the rewards electorally as well, because I think it's a hugely popular thing to get behind. It really resonates with what we see. Again, sort of. We've got some emerging findings from the work we've been doing around parental confidence and the domain consistently across all of our open hubs across the UK is around seeking help and saying that we are getting very consistent numbers, that that is the lowest scoring domain across a multitude of different questions that we ask parents.
00:31:34:01 - 00:31:51:14
Unknown
They don't know where that village is. Village may may even exist on their doorstep. They just don't know how to navigate it. They don't trust perhaps the sources of the information, or that it's going to be consistent in terms of when they do access a service. I just have to see a different health visitor each time. Or, you know, the GP service is always so busy.
00:31:51:15 - 00:32:23:03
Unknown
I guess you know that village that we've spoken about, how do you think we can get that rebuilt? What is it that communities of parents that are looking for other mums and dads and carers, or looking for other services? What do you see? The kind of connective tissue being for those families across the UK or globally? Well, I'm a it's a really good question and I'm a big fan of the Family Hub model and those because I know Dame Andrew did huge amounts of work on this when in government.
00:32:23:05 - 00:32:46:09
Unknown
And if you ask, I know she did ask parents what they wanted and they wanted that one stop shop. They wanted somewhere where they weren't having to go and explain their situation 50 times over, and to be sent to all different places to access services. So they wanted them in one place. They wanted to not be stigmatized. So they wanted a certain level of universality.
00:32:46:10 - 00:33:02:05
Unknown
And that doesn't mean that there isn't then additional support for those who need it once they've had that universal aspect. And you're right, they wanted information. They wanted information because information is powerful. You don't know what you don't know. And you can get some of that from the internet. But there's so many sources now, and often parents don't know what to trust.
00:33:02:05 - 00:33:20:11
Unknown
They don't know who to trust. And so, so, and I'm a big fan of face to face and peer to peer. That's supportive network to say, gosh, my baby just isn't stop, just won't stop crying or they're not feeding. Is it something I'm doing? The answer invariably is no, it's not. And sometimes babies just cry. And sometimes the challenge is feeding.
00:33:20:11 - 00:33:37:09
Unknown
But when you hear that from other parents, gosh, yeah, I'm going through the same thing. But it'll be all right because we tried this and we tried this and actually we should speak to the health visitor about that because we've got those common challenges and it is that network that, peer to peer that. And for mums and dads, I hasten to add, that just helps get you through it and understand that you're not alone.
00:33:37:09 - 00:33:58:18
Unknown
And these are not new challenges. But whether you say the big three crying, crying, feeding, sleeping there, they're the big ones. There are so many more. But having that peer to peer support and that face to face interaction, getting out of the house, away from the screens, babies interacting, toddlers interacting, and most importantly, arguably parents interacting, it's so critical.
00:33:58:23 - 00:34:17:12
Unknown
That's key. And that's why, you know, all the work that you do and the work that we do as well, trying to bring people together, part of a community with all the services they need is vital. I guess we've spoken a little bit about the challenges that the sector faces and the sort of concerns everyone has. If you flip it.
00:34:17:13 - 00:34:38:16
Unknown
What gives you the most hope? What are you hopeful about when you pick up the newspaper, or when you read about kind of the work that some of the charities, organizations that you partner with? Yeah. What gives you a big smile? And I think it's that more and more people are getting it. More and more people are getting how important this period is, and they're recognizing that people need support.
00:34:38:17 - 00:34:58:17
Unknown
And that's just not not just happening here in the UK. It's happening globally. It doesn't mean we haven't got loads of work to do. And it doesn't also mean, as you rightly made the point earlier, that we haven't got to keep making that case because it's not one you just win and then forget about. You've just got to keep reinforcing how important this period is.
00:34:58:18 - 00:35:22:09
Unknown
That pregnant period pregnancy to age to 80% of a human brain is developed by that point, millions of neural connections every single second. It's when so much of your your human programing takes place. I think that is becoming the understanding and awareness of that is becoming greater. And more and more people are recognizing that if you invest in it, you will reap the rewards.
00:35:22:10 - 00:35:43:16
Unknown
It's not job done there. So, so much more that we need to do. And globally we need to learn from each other. But it does excite me how many people are now talking about this, how many people are working on this agenda, and how receptive politicians are to hearing the case? It doesn't mean they're acting on it in the way that we would want yet, but they're listening.
00:35:43:16 - 00:35:45:05
Unknown
And that's the that's the first step.
00:35:45:05 - 00:36:04:04
Unknown
So, you know, as you say, your parent yourself and thinking about guidance, thinking about supporting families. What's the one piece of advice that you wish you you'd received that you'd like to share with the parents that might be listening today? The one piece of advice was that you're not alone, and this is not new.
00:36:04:08 - 00:36:26:13
Unknown
You know, there are many, many people throughout history have gone through this before, but it feels really isolating and daunting at the time. Reach out to others. Take advice. Someone will have always been through the experience that you've had and someone will be able to help. And then we've said the one piece of advice for parents what's your one piece of advice for policymakers that are thinking about this space?
00:36:26:15 - 00:36:52:00
Unknown
Listen and act. If you want to have long term savings and a healthy society that you want to see, invest in babies. Pregnancy to age two the most critical period. Invest in it. Prioritize it. You will reap the reward societally, politically and financially. And what are you most proud of in terms of the work that the Foundation is doing?
00:36:52:02 - 00:37:15:18
Unknown
I think, well, I mean, I think it's hard to pick one of those three areas because the grant, the grants, I love hearing about what's actually happening on the ground, the research. I love to hear people talking about the research, the latest screen time research. I've heard people in the States talking about it, for example, and then on our advocacy work, when we do manage to get in front of a policymaker and a politician.
00:37:15:18 - 00:37:37:20
Unknown
And I'm really proud of actually how many we are getting in front of, not just in the UK, but globally. Being able to make that case and watching them, hearing them get it. And then those cogs start turning and then putting wheels in motion to start bringing about the change we want to see. That really excites me. And what should those first thousand and one days be like?
00:37:38:00 - 00:38:05:06
Unknown
Every single baby. What do you think that that life should feel like for every baby? Globally? It's a unique period of vulnerability, and every baby is reliant on a human loving caregiver. So it's got to be a loving home with loving parents and caregivers that's at the heart of everything a safe, secure, loving home. On that message, I think what a way to end.
00:38:05:07 - 00:38:12:01
Unknown
Thank you so much for your time. Well, it's been great speaking to you today and thank you so much for coming on. Best beginnings. Thank you for having
00:38:12:03 - 00:38:32:12
Unknown
What I'm taking from this conversation is that the 1001 days argument has been made for decades, but rarely has been made by someone who's actually held power to act on it and can tell us honestly about what happened. Will has been in the rooms. He knows where the resistance lives, and he knows what it takes to make something happen.
00:38:32:13 - 00:38:34:07
Unknown
This feels important
00:38:34:09 - 00:38:51:16
Unknown
that babies we see every week, what happens when the earliest years are supported well, and what happens when they're not? The families that come through our doors. They're not statistics. They are the argument. And the conversations like this one are part of making sure that that argument keeps on being heard.
00:38:51:17 - 00:39:05:08
Unknown
If you remember one thing from today, the first 1001 critical days are not just a parenting issue, they're a societal one, and the sooner we treat them that way, the better the outcomes are for every child born in this country.
00:39:05:10 - 00:39:11:12
Unknown
Well, thank you so much for joining me. And thank you for listening to. Best beginnings, A Baby's Own podcast.
00:39:11:18 - 00:39:21:12
Unknown
For more evidence informed support on babies in the early years, subscribe to this channel and if you found it helpful, share it with someone who might need it. We'll see you next time.