Speaker: I think we are at a time
where we cannot afford not to tap
into all sorts of intelligence.
A
Speaker 5: hundred percent.
And the ancients have a lot to teach us.
Speaker: Being able to sit next to the
tree and ask, what can it share for you?
This gathering of tribes is amazing,
so many friends, incredible people
that are regents, passionate about
teacher making, and it's an ecosystem
in a pre acceleration program.
and women of color, founders in health,
climate, and education, acknowledging
that it's possible, and it's available,
and there was a moment where I
literally used to say, if God exists,
then I don't want to hear about him.
I was so upset, full of grief and anger.
It took me many years and this
whole journey to then come to
where I'm at now, which is how
I write when I'm fully myself.
Honoring my sovereignty and
freedom, And I'm more than honored
to be sharing some of my latest
Speaker 5: poems with you.
John: Oh, well, hey, thanks for carving
time out of your, uh, yeah, gathering to
be here and share some of your poetry.
I can't wait to hear what's
happened since we last spoke.
We obviously like, yeah, had a
chance to dive into being other
and get a little bit of a glimpse.
But you've been on tour again since then.
And yeah, catch me up.
What's happened?
Hanae: Oh, wow.
Well, first of all, I
am so happy to see you.
This gathering of tribes is amazing.
So many friends, incredible people that
are regens passionate about future making.
The utmost care and attention.
And yes, I've been on the journey.
I actually just came back to Portugal
about 10 days ago from a beautiful summer
book tour in North America, starting
with New York city, going to Toronto,
John: Montreal,
Hanae: Vancouver.
And then so
John: cool.
Hawaii as well.
Beautiful.
Hanae: Very, very special.
And it's, uh, kind of a chapter
into this worldwide book tour
because I think when we spoke, I had
presented my book in a few places.
Yeah.
Dubai
John: as well, right?
Hanae: Dubai.
That's right.
Well, since then I actually
also presented it in India.
So
John: amazing.
It's so special.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
I went to kind of like All in all present
my book to about a thousand people
through 20 workshops, masterclasses
or talks from Cape Town to Davos,
to Dubai, to crisscrossing India.
And then this North American
summer book tour and a few
more, um, scheduled in the fall.
So it's really beautiful, exciting, rich.
It's a beautiful human experience.
I mean, it's very, very special.
Speaker 7: Congrats.
What an honor.
Yeah.
I know it was a big leap of faith
putting so much of yourself out there
in the form of writing and trusting
that it'll reach the right people.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
And then at the same time, it's a gift
that people receive with, so much.
empathy and desire to connect.
So that's what's been really special
is every space was an opportunity to
go deeper into people's story and how
do they show up more authentically?
How do they do their inner work?
How, what's their aspiration
for change making?
John: Um,
Hanae: so if anything, I've been, I've
been just completely, uh, graced with,
uh, this possibility and, uh, And yeah,
I might have mentioned when, when we
spoke, but now it's becoming a bit more
concrete that this book being other the
beauty and power of being an outsider
holds theory of change and really
this vision on, uh, around the role
of women of color, in particular women
from the global South, from minority
groups in the global, global North for
change making and what's, um, deriving
from it and what's being born now.
It's this beautiful project that I've
had for many years and I kind of like
was waiting for the right time and it
felt like the time is now and it's real.
It's called Integritas and it's uh,
an ecosystem and a pre acceleration
program for black and indigenous
and women of color founders in
health, climate and education.
So
Speaker 4: it
Speaker 2: is time with my co founders.
We're on the.
Beautiful fundraising, synergies,
partnership, development.
We launched the program in 2025.
John: Oh my God.
Around
Hanae: the corner.
John: Hey, this is so amazing.
So full circle.
Speaker 2: It's, yeah, it's,
it's a beautiful baby to be born.
And, uh, it, it, it feels
amazing because it's this Hmm.
You know, I, um, I.
Had the chance and I have the
chance now to continue working with
amazing clients for missions that
I find important and I can see what
I can bring to the, the mission.
And at the same time, as a change
maker, when you have that moment and
that opportunity, and it's always a
leap of faith and it's always, you
know, it's been a lot of inner work
at the same time, the last few months
to ask myself whether I had it in me.
To jump onto a new venture after those
that I built, uh, and, and, and kind of
like have it all encompassing whilst at
the same time, making sure that I remain
in my flow and in a flow and nourishing
all of the dimensions of my life.
And I think as a, as a woman in
particular, um, those questions become
really crucial at certain times.
Um, so I'm really happy to have come
to that place of acknowledging that
it's possible and it's available
and I'm already walking the path.
Speaker 7: Living it out.
That's so cool.
Well, I'd love to have a chance to,
yeah, check out some of the poetry
that you've been exploring today.
And I think, yeah, I think it'd be nice to
give a bit of a framing in terms of like.
How this shows different from
refi podcast and maybe some of
the journey I've been on just as a
overarching view of our time together.
So we obviously spoke probably
what a year ago now, um, in Lisbon
studio in the city, super fun space.
And I was kind of transitioning out of
the regenerative finance movement, um,
as part of my own personal journey of
just wanting to see a bigger picture.
Crypto and climate was a really
amazing home for a season
and it was very resonant.
I learned so much but I just felt like
the container for me personally has to
be bigger, like I wanted a bigger view.
And so the show Regenera is really
kind of looking at, um, the broader
regenerative movement and trying to
embrace art and music and culture
and, you know, the regenerative
spirit being infused in all things.
And I think, um, yeah, it's really
so special that you're delving into
the world of poetry after having
written a piece of nonfiction that's
very, very close to obviously your
heart and your lived experience.
But, um, yeah, I think it'll be nice to
resonate and, but maybe before we jump
into reading a piece, or do you want
to read one to kick us off, I'd just
love to hear how like this craft fits
within your broader view of the change
that you want to make in the world.
Speaker 2: Well, if you must know
poetry has always been there with
me, actually, and, uh, a few years
back I started kind of making it.
More and more normal in my life to
carve time and space for experiences
to really just process them.
And I kind of realized also, uh, people
giving me a feedback over how I write,
when I write, when I'm fully myself
Speaker 4: and,
Speaker 2: and there is a lot of poetry.
And I think that comes from, you
know, being born in that culture.
I'm Moroccan.
I being Moroccan means so many things.
It's at the intersection of so many.
Cultures really, and the Arabic is very
present in my life, despite the fact
that I don't have to speak it every day
and mostly travel live abroad and very
rarely work with Arabic, although now
I'm working on an anthology of poems.
So nice.
So my poetry I've written in English.
Um, but I'm working on a design that
will have the Arabic and English,
and it's beautiful because I, you
know, the, the language, the alphabet
is, is visually special, exactly.
And the sound of it also.
And also being able to convey those
experiences that I've had, like
typically one of the, so there are two.
Three times, right?
The, the first one that I written
a few years back over my travels in
Latin America and other places is
called Nomadic Eyes, Sporadic Hearts.
And so some of the experiences that I've
had as a traveler, um, I thought I would
never be able to be understood in my own
culture, where I'll be judged and so it
is a step to be able to, to share that.
And I actually worked on the
translation with my mother
Speaker 4: and my mother, Oh, nice, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's so sweet.
She said, you know, I would learn so
many things about you, and I think,
you know, kind of unlocked a few
things for her and then women around
her that she was sharing this with.
Speaker 4: Mm.
And
Speaker 2: so I realized,
Speaker 4: oh, on honors,
Speaker 2: it's definitely in this path of
like, honoring my sovereignty and freedom
and, um, I'm more than honored to be
sharing some of my latest poem with you.
John: Beautiful.
Go right ahead.
Speaker 2: So this first one
is called Beyond Our Fences.
Beyond our fences, I entered the garden
of the Park of Necessities at dusk.
I passed the fountain murmurs and the
peacocks rustles and the cats purr and
saluted the chicken on trees and the bees.
And while the sky was turning orange
and pink, I entered my sanctuary, not to
think, in this loving tree with countless
branches, calling for other chances.
Whispering to the spirits with
the mother guru lyrics preparing
for the night of destiny.
I almost got locked in
in the garden of Eden.
I heard from one close gate to the next.
These wilds around our fences.
My soul company.
The postmodern humanistic texts.
Surely there would be someone
in the castle, amicable.
I found a fence that
could reasonably climb.
Memories of past injuries resurfaced.
Of this time, I tried a jump from
a wall in province, Provence.
A military bootcamp I soon withdrew from.
No offense.
It turned out this time I landed in
the courtyard of a training building
of the Portuguese Defense Ministry.
A few formalities, sincere apologies.
I was free to return to the
untamed lands of our prayers.
John: What's this one called?
Speaker 2: Beyond our fences.
John: Beyond our fences.
Speaker 2: So there are
many inspirations to it.
The first one is a book by Bayou
Akomolafé, who's a post humanist thinker.
Yeah,
Speaker 7: I think I met him too.
How's the beautiful business?
Yeah, he's an amazing human.
Speaker 2: Fabulous.
And we've had him when I brought the book.
I kind of co hosted and co curated the
last House of Beautiful Business Festival.
He came to Morocco.
He's a, loves Morocco and his book
and his voice and he's thinking
something that really inspires me.
And so I was reading
this book at this time.
And so what happened was that I
was back from India and Malaysia.
Back in Portugal, in this kind of like
moment in between, about to fly to
Morocco for hosting that gathering,
um, and trying to find my ground again.
So, it's, uh, the park that's next
to my former house in Campo de
Oric, uh, the park Necessidades.
So, I went there and I used to find,
That tree that they have a few of those
like very, um, big trees where you
can really sit inside and meditate.
And so I did that.
I sat inside and meditated.
And I was listening to, um, uh, a
prayer from Amma, uh, or the, the
tradition of Amma, the, the Indian guru
whom I had met a few weeks prior in
my latest stop, uh, during my Indian
book tour, whom I loved very much.
And she gave me the most beautiful
benediction over, was extremely powerful
for me connecting with this woman.
Embodiments of, uh, female leadership,
mother leadership, motherly love that she
gives to the entire humanity is intense.
Tense and beautiful and like recalibrating
as well when sometimes you're in
doubt and sometimes you're thinking,
is this the right time for finding
the leadership at the end of the day?
Sometimes we can get into those places.
So anyway, I was listening to the prayer.
And then after my meditation, I realized,
I, I walked out the park and I tried
to, and I realized I was stuck inside.
They had closed the park.
Oh my gosh, because you
were inside the tree.
Exactly.
And so literally what I'm telling
in this poem is what happened.
I went to one, um, um,
gate and to the next.
And then at some point I was like,
okay, well, there's a, there's a fence.
Maybe I'll jump.
And then I jumped and I ended in the
parking lot of the, of a city that
belongs to the ministry of defense.
And then I had to check
out and the, you know.
Thank God, actually, there was
someone for a good half hour.
I couldn't find anyone, but
then he asked me for my ID.
And then I thought, maybe I'm
going to find myself in trouble.
But in the end they apologized because
they didn't have the hours written.
So no one actually closed the park,
but that's how this, this, uh, poem
John: came.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: So
John: what a spark.
Speaker 2: It, it was very special.
Um, but it was also.
Um, Ramadan.
And so I talk about the Night of
Destiny, which is le ah, okay.
Uh, the 27th night of Ramadan.
And it's a beautiful, for me,
it's, I think it's one of the
traditions I'm very attached to.
It's the, it's this, uh, this
image that, um, angels come down
to earth to hear the prayers.
Most intimate prayers.
of everyone.
And, uh, the, the, um, the prayer
in the Quran says that every
prayer during the night of destiny
is worth a thousand prayers.
Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
So
Speaker 2: the traditions around
that night are very beautiful.
And so it was just a
beautiful spiritual moment.
Speaker 7: What resonance.
Amazing.
And this is something I know a
little about, you know, my conception
of prayer within like the Islamic
tradition is more, you know, routine
and ritual and it's memorized and.
I love this kind of idea of a really
vulnerable, almost like dark night
of the soul, heard by the angels.
Is this something that you like, you
see and witness in, you know, parts
of your, I don't know, experience?
This sort of like
pouring out of the heart?
Because it, it doesn't seem as
visible from, I don't know, what,
what the tradition can be known for.
Speaker 2: Well, I must say I had
quite a journey with the tradition.
I grew up in a secular Muslim
family and in an environment,
mostly French, where atheism was the
John: predominant way.
Speaker 2: And for a number of reasons, I
felt really, uh, Like it was better for me
to disconnect from this tradition because
it felt intrusive, it felt inauthentic,
it felt more like religiosity rather
than authenticity and spirituality.
Also, a number of events
happened in my life.
So whenever my sister was sick and
then passed away, there was a moment
where I literally used to say, if God
exists, then I definitely want to Don't
want to hear about, and I was so upset,
full of, I mean, grief and anger.
And, but it took me many years and this
whole journey to then come to where I'm at
now, which is this embracing and openness
to all modalities and understanding and
appreciating this beautiful legacy, which
I mean, in, in, in reality, in, I have
the freedom now to, to connect with it,
you know, and it would an
approach that feels safe to me
Speaker 7: and what serves
John: you
Speaker 2: exactly.
That serves me best.
And so, um, I kind of pick and
choose if to say, of course, in
the resonance doesn't exactly.
And so what's empowering.
And for me, I kind of realized that
The Sufi tradition is a very beautiful.
Speaker 7: Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: You can attend a few
festivals in Morocco, um, the sacred
music festival in Fez or some others.
And we have that imbued in the
culture anyway, without the religious
aspect, although it's everywhere.
But this thing of getting into trans
mode almost was with religious stuff.
John: Oh my gosh.
And I
Speaker 2: appreciate that very much.
I know music is so important for me.
In my, in, in, in being who I am becoming
and, and also accessing knowledge, right?
And so these levels of frequency and so
on, it's, it's so important, but yeah,
I'd say it's also that, that music and
musicality is very present and it's, for
me, the, the very particular thing about
music and I love to sing, I'm a vocalist.
Oh,
John: nice.
I didn't know this part.
Beautiful.
Speaker 2: I realize you cannot lie.
It's truth telling If you're going to
sing something uplifting in your soul, you
John: feel it.
Speaker 2: You can't like everyone that's
perceptive enough is going to hear it.
And so that's what I love about music.
Just like so beautiful practices.
You so
Speaker 7: interesting
Speaker 2: thuth is coming through.
Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
I really appreciate you bringing up this.
Sufi tradition, trance, and music.
I recently had probably the most
incredible musical experience of my
life at Waking Life on the live stage.
There was a, yeah, trio of performers
from Pakistan and Sufi tradition.
I guess the style of music is
called like Balochi or Balochistan.
And, um, the guy was in a trance.
He was like in his 90s playing
this beautiful musical instrument.
It was incredibly high tempo,
very upbeat, all major tonality.
And for like three hours, he
was in this beautiful trance.
Everyone in the room was just gravitating
on every single note that was coming next.
And they would start over these,
you know, very, very repetitive,
um, movements of the songs.
And I was just transfixed, like.
The frequency was so loving, it was so
profound, and almost addictive in a way.
And I found myself afterwards being
like, I've never had an experience
like that, but how could I recreate it?
what could reach that?
And I was listening to that
music when I was writing, and
it's, it's phenomenal how Yeah.
The resonance in the body is hard
to mimic and hard to replicate.
And I think a lot of our sort of visual
driven society misses the resonance of
this, the stimulus and this frequency
that you get through presence.
So thank you for sharing that
and sparking that thread.
I'm
Speaker 2: also so glad that, you
know, I'm hearing this connection that
you're having and nurturing now with
the, with Eastern, uh, traditions.
The reason I say that is because
I realized in, navigating.
Multiple cultures.
I keep on telling people that are
so interested in spreading love and
coming from a place of love and that
you know, as much as you look at the
Greek definitions of love and there are
at least seven in Arabic, there are 50
different words to is love and it's well.
And so that level of nuance sometimes
is a hard to perceive or misunderstood.
And we live in a time and
age where there are still.
Yeah.
A number of people that want to
manufacture so called civilizational
clashes, uh, kind of, uh, remove
people from that possibility of
connection to the deeper and different.
Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I find it's so
important in our, in our time, if we're
talking about, uh, regeneration to.
Yes.
Approach it from a place of openness and
really welcoming all cultures, because
they definitely have a lot to feed
one another if you know, in Portugal,
many people are trying to reconnect
with their, their Arab heritage around
water management, you know, obviously
tribes that have navigated, uh, decades,
centuries where water was not so available
now, even worse, you know, Morocco and the
region is It's really paying the cost of
climate change, but a number of traditions
around how we build buildings and how
we create a water management system.
It's so important.
And so I think we, we are at a time
where we cannot afford not to tap
into all sorts of intelligence.
All
Speaker 7: forms.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I love that.
And the ancients have a lot to teach us.
This is what it takes slowing
down to really sink into it.
Do you have anything else
that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2: I would love to share.
Okay, so then this next poem
that I'm going to share with
you is called Finish Line.
I've come a long way and
there's no finish line.
Staying in my lane is my main pride.
I'll admit I need those claps and
hugs and cheerleaders along the
way because it takes what it takes.
To revisit barren ones and feel the
shivers of light, sense the growth, the
ever expensive warmth, and feel afloat.
Someone please call 2 1
1, can you do that for
Speaker 4: me?
Speaker 2: I need a crew of friends
that wanders, that cares, that doesn't
get lost in vain words, but found
in plain cards, all on the table.
Because we have no time to
waste in getting convoluted,
dysregulated, manipulated,
Historical fire and soulless parades.
What I know is that in the strength of
the heart, we take this radical break
from a note that deceived a new that's
not quite formed and we can make hope
real and believe in human decency.
With ease and flow with grace, like
two friends on a kayak on the go.
Speaker 7: Oh,
this, um, the sparks, they're kind of
like, Desire for authentic connection
that I know you really seem to
struggle for and especially your
time in Paris, it seems there was a
lot of opportunity for being missed.
Where was this born of?
Speaker 2: So this poem I've
written, um, maybe at the end of
July, early August, I was in Canada.
I spent most of my summer in Canada.
And I had many inspirations for it.
I spent about a week in a place called
Wasan Island with other change makers.
I've had so many friendship crushes.
One of them in particular with someone
who's so witty and smart, he has like
a foldable kayak, so it's so well done.
I was very impressed.
And so.
The first time we went on the lake, I
was, we had such a profound conversation.
And so I wanted more of it.
He has a second one.
And then we had two more in Toronto,
actually, just before I flew out.
Um, so this level of connection
is definitely part of, um,
we're part of the same tribe.
That's
John: for sure.
Speaker 2: He's a researcher
on empathy and AI.
Oh,
Speaker 4: interesting.
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
Fascinating.
And so there was him like this
connection, which for me was very
soothing because I was kind of in
an exploratory mode in Canada, kind
of trying to understand what's the
social entrepreneurship scene like,
Speaker 4: who's
Speaker 2: doing what, with whom
I could potentially collaborate
in the future and so on.
And so, yes, there was this aspiration.
The 2 1 1 is actually a beautiful story.
A woman called Alison Howitt, who was
there at the retreat with whom I became
friends, who was very supportive.
She came to a number of
my book talks and such.
And she is, um, a
brilliant, uh, change maker.
She's led, uh, Mars, which is this,
uh, the biggest center for social
impact in North America for many years.
She was a VP for impact.
And she also had this project of
setting up a number just like 9 1 1.
When, instead of emergency, it's SOAR.
Social and humanitarian causes.
So if you need to know which, I don't
know which organization, uh, tackles
the issues of this population or
population, if you have a question or
Speaker 7: meet somebody on the
street has a need and you, yeah.
Speaker 2: And when she told me about
it, I was like, I revisited so many
situations where I, people would come
to me at an issue and I had no clue.
And I would try to imagine.
Speaker 7: So hard in that moment.
I'll spot.
I had an experience
like this very recently.
Super interesting.
Wow.
What an incredible resource.
Speaker 2: So, so yeah,
so it was fantastic.
And then the other side of it is kind
of like I was living this beautiful
kind of unfolding of, uh, this summer,
right, this book tour and so on.
And in contrast, I was witnessing some
behaviors that felt like this misaligned
with what I Organizations that I had
been working with or still working with.
And it felt like that level of, okay,
this is, this doesn't, they're very
good at talking, what about the doing?
They're very good that, uh, putting
out elements that call for connection,
but what about the real connection
and other behaviors that felt really
like, uh, not acceptable, which is
why I call in for human decency.
And so eventually this episode happened
a few weeks before I went to Hawaii
and before I kind of worked with
an organization called the nation
of Hawaii with Peggy Lou with an
incredible energy master and so on.
And I really found myself in flow.
And so it's fantastic to see, you
know, like how through poetry you
can have some intuition around.
What you're calling, you know, of
course, you will do it through mantras
and through singing to other practices.
But I find myself really, um, anytime I
write a poem, it's captures the moment
and some state in the past and some state
in the future, but it's, it's my compass.
It's my, uh, roadmap, essentially.
It's my, uh, sense making of the world
when everything is shape shifting.
Speaker 7: So beautiful.
Um, I'm loving it.
Do you have anything
else you want to share?
Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
Well, I'll share.
Um, so like I told you, I'm, I'm working
on a, an anthology of poems in English and
Arabic, and it's very close to my heart.
I'm going to share a poem that I've
written a few years back and that
I actually, uh, performed at that
festival between the two of us.
And it was really powerful
because my mother was present.
Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
Okay.
Speaker 2: So the poem
is called My Mother's.
My mother is an Arab, a passionate,
glorious, powerful Arab woman.
My second mother, my dada, is a Berber,
a fierce, proud, powerful Berber woman.
My mothers cared for me, one
for longer than the other.
One held me in her belly,
the other braced the cover.
My mother would quarrel sometimes,
but always primed the chimes.
They would lean on one another, for men
and this society would make them suffer.
My mother is from the capital city.
She knows its stories intimately.
My second mother grew up in the mountains.
She walked for hours every
day to the fountains.
Speaker 4: My
Speaker 2: mother taught my second
mother how to read and write the pen.
She believes is the only way to fight.
My second mother prefers magic spells,
how the wind rose and what the card tells
the eye she believes is a better night.
One day, my second mother sought
refuge from a fist fight she
undertook and the trial induced.
My mother held the door open.
To the woman with orange
eyes, no words spoken.
My mother asks me to straighten my hair.
She knows too well the world works
better for skins that are fair.
My second mother draws
henna flower, beware.
She plants rose seeds and makes me dare.
Any mother I shall become will dance
with the power of one, woven in love
the ties spun of my mother and my
second mother and all the mothers
of their mothers, of Arab women, of
Berber women, of African women, to the
mighty power of all these women, Abel.
John: Oh, so nice.
Speaker 7: Wow, what rich tapestry.
How did your mom react?
I
Speaker 2: think she was very
moved from what I remember and
what I've seen in the pictures.
She was very, very moved.
Um, yeah, it's, it's interesting
because she was a bit intimidated.
The gathering brought together 700 people
and, uh, many of whom at the end came to
me and told me, we're so proud of you.
You represent the Moroccan woman so well.
And it was very touched.
But then I started thinking about
it and thinking about my mother too.
And how, you know, They, we have this
tradition, I mean, a strong tradition of
hospitality, but it's also so heavy on
women and they rarely can enjoy it the way
I like to enjoy hosting, co hosting, being
present for people and for myself too.
Um, but for her seeing me on stage
and kind of also playing around things
that are a bit taboo, because we never
want to show, you know, things that
You know, I forbid you to do because
society is going to judge you and, and,
and, and seeing me kind of like really
at peace with it and playful, I think
she was very touched and very proud.
And I realized all my work around
literature is, is actually.
It's not only a tribute to her,
but also to my whole lineage.
My mom was the first one
to go to university and she
first one to go to school.
My grandmother didn't go to school on my
natural lineage and the fact that on my
end, I'm kind of like playing with dual
degrees and going to different places
and have all this freedom and aspiration
and ambition and unapologetically
kind of like embracing it.
But it's not always been the case
because many times I would be
questioned and almost ashamed as in.
Well, you're going too far.
You're going to bother a lot of people
or you're going to have a lot of backlash
or things like this that are piling up.
And now I see it with a lot of empathy
and compassion because I see it's the
projection of their fears for me to
be able to kind of transmute that and
to actually all is available for me.
Of course, we need to be grounded in
understanding that we can't just escape
things and function like other beings.
Again, like the same topic I mentioned
to you, motherhood precisely.
Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: yeah.
When you're
Speaker 2: in your 20s and
30s, when you're in your
childbearing years as a woman.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
Speaker 2: It is a question, like, how
do you make it happen in a way that feels
right, that feels great and nourishing?
How do you want a mother?
All these questions, of course, they are
very present to me, but I, I just, yeah,
I love being able to tell her how much
I love what she's brought to my life.
My other, my second mother, my dada,
who was not present, unfortunately,
at the gathering, but at the same
time I made peace with it because I
think she would have been, it would
have been tokenizing for her to be
present in this context, so foreign.
Sure.
Um, but and, and she knows about it.
She knows that I, I performed it.
She's so proud.
John: Oh man.
Speaker 2: It's really important.
You know, I, I think the level of
love that they, they, they give
and transmit, I think in our, in
Morocco and we still have a lot of
recognition and acknowledgement,
it's sometimes a bit lost.
Like I told a few friends and some
other places in the U S and such,
and now, and they were so moved.
And they were like, Whoa, I mean,
we wish our kids would recognize the
same, at least a little bit of what
we've been through to be able to break.
Bring them or provide them
into where they're at.
And so I think for me, it's important.
It's a, it's a foundational relationship.
It's a very important one for me and, uh,
and I, and I realized through it that it's
not about just, uh, the, uh, the lineage
is also a way of being in the world.
So actually the, the term in my
anthology is called mothers of the land.
How do we walk around the planets
really feeling motherly love for it
and feeling it's motherly love for
Speaker 7: us.
John: Yeah.
Yeah.
Um,
Speaker 7: I think this, um, multi
generational inquiry is very central to
this whole regenerative transition and
obviously, you know, our great mother,
the earth from whom all things come and
to whom all things return is the kind of
like, yeah, ultimate ancestor in a way.
But um, yeah, it's been an
interesting journey for me.
I had the great opportunity to sit,
um, with close family members in
ceremony in Mexico and there's almost
this sense that You know, both the
past and the future are emanating
from this present moment and that as
we're able to unlock and move through
pain and resentment and fear and even
bitterness and move into love that this
somehow also sets You know, our parents
and their parents free from whatever
bondage that held them into that place,
Speaker 2: you know,
Speaker 7: it's really,
yeah, very unintuitive, but
it feels present, you know,
Speaker 2: we are, I mean,
we're a constellation, right?
I love that there's an emergence of many
modalities that take this into account,
like literally systemic constellation.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I mean, we have.
We're under the influence and are in touch
with so much and so many, I mean, this
is why I think in this context, it's so
important to go past the illusion that we
can, uh, you know, just work on ourselves.
And I was totally totally earlier
about boundaries and boundary setting.
And it's something that I've actually
been struggling with because I understand
and appreciate the value of this.
Reflection and it's practical.
However, on a bigger, when you
take the bigger picture, the bigger
spectrum, there's so many influences.
So you have not only your ancestors,
but also the spirits of this land
was, you know, we had probably to ask
permission to be here in order for
things to be smooth and respectful
of the sovereignty of every element.
And then, yeah, kind of the
sovereignty of, of every relationship.
So it's a web that's quite complex.
And it's sweet.
Walk that path, it's, you can only
approach it with the, the, the, the, the
most pure intention of healing and caring
and, and opening to what wants to emerge
because it's there rather than suppressing
and that's the path to freedom.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Whatever you're free
inside of you, you're free for
your lineage, for your whole web.
Speaker 7: And this is the
leadership that the world needs.
You know, and that we so
Speaker 2: the elevating one.
Speaker 7: Yes.
Yeah, the The nourishing and asking
for permission and walking in
alignment and seeking to gather and
bring together all of these disparate
elements and move beyond our polarity.
I'd be curious to, yeah, look forward
towards what you're doing next and how
what you've learned in this season and
what you're feeling into now is informing
what you're doing moving forward.
Speaker 2: Well, what I can say with
confidence As many things that are present
in my life now, where I feel so much flow
will continue to be with me in the future.
Nature, poetry, uh, and this aspiration
to continue moving with care and, and
you know, I mentioned Hawaii, but I'll
just say how profound this experience
was to be in touch with elders there and
understand the depth of the Aloha spirit.
And so my intention is also to move
through life with the Aloha spirit.
Speaker 7: Can you tell
me more about that?
I don't know much about these Hawaiian
traditions, only a little bit.
Speaker 2: Perhaps for context, a
few weeks back, I was, uh, in Hawaii,
both for my book tour, I was invited
to speak at a school and also for a
circle of entrepreneurs, but I was also
staying at this beautiful, um, land,
uh, that is owned by the nation of
Hawaii, which is an organization that
has fought for many decades, uh, to
protect the sovereignty of Hawaiian,
um, And so together with Peggy Liu,
who is their, uh, senior international
advisor and also energy master, we did
some work on the lens and with people.
Uh, so we essentially offered our
gifts and, you know, anything else
that we could, um, uh, mobilize.
And so some of the projects are
typically the use of web three for,
uh, to, to support their intention to,
um, Disseminate and share the, uh, the,
uh, native aloha spirit, which is a
spirit of peace and grace, compassion.
It's very, very profound.
Um, and so we've been designing some, and,
and, and again, mobilizing partners around
the possible, how I verse, and right
now we're in the process of fundraising
for it and other realities to support
the sustainability of this organization.
, they have 42 acres of land
that is beautiful, incredible.
And they're restoring the terraces
and the practices that were ancestral.
And so just being there and, and
sitting with these incredible human
beings that I mean, have, have this
mission right, and being of service to
them was, for me, extremely profound.
And the beauty of this
environment, incredible.
I really found, so whenever I was
explained and told and read about and
read some poetry from some elders,
so nice about this Aloha spirit, I
realized, you know, it's, it's just
very strong, very powerful there.
And so this kindness, like the place
of kindness is the ultimate goal
for, for relating to one another.
Um, um, And, you know, I mean, we're
in a very kind space, you and I, but I
would say, uh, many times in navigating
multiple cultures and also the Western
cultures that value something else.
Sure.
Performance.
John: Sure.
Speaker 7: Productivity.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Kindness comes as an afterthought
where it's nice to have.
Speaker 7: Where you are
meanstone and sometimes, yeah.
Speaker 2: And so when you put it at
the center of the equation and you
almost kind of say, well, we, uh, Check
ourselves against the reality of it.
It's shifting the paradigm, right?
I was talking to someone here who works on
the value knife index, and I found it so
John: beautiful.
And
Speaker 2: so this is helping
kind of redefine a compass so that
John: people
Speaker 2: can allow themselves to be in
touch with that beautiful part of them.
And it's not just vulnerability,
actually, the purpose of being,
John: Mm.
Speaker 2: So for me it was very profound
and I'm so grateful and I'm so honored
to be able to f you know, at this
time, find ways to continue supporting
them more so nice of, of service and,
and it's, you know, being connected.
They call, people call how Hawaii,
the hard chara, the earth and f mm.
It I'm so grateful because
it was so recalibrating.
So yeah.
So sometimes in being a little bit into
those doubts and navigating places, we
pick up on other modalities and ways
of being, whereas you go go there and
you're like, actually my natural way of.
Being, which is led by my heart that
wants to be generous and he, uh, and
look at the world with, you know,
putting everything in like bubbles
of light and, and to support it.
It's allowed.
And that was brilliant.
That was,
Speaker 7: and nature speaks of
this, that's how she sings, you know?
And I think there's this amazing
emergence of people really leaning
into land based regeneration and it.
Almost invites us to rediscover our
heritage and to, yeah, remember the
wisdom of our elders and to seek it
out, you know, and it's, it's just
so wonderful that, um, so many people
around the world are doing that work.
They're tapping in, listening to the land.
I think we, as people have amazing
ability to create also to destroy,
but I think we've somehow lost our
ability to listen, you know, and to
really tuned in to the voice of the
earth and figure out what she needs.
And I think this.
The Hawaiian culture is called
to me in different, different
times, different ways.
Um, obviously first through
surfing, but, um, yeah, there's
something, there's something there.
Yeah.
There's, there's
absolutely something there.
I'd love
Speaker 2: to see you there and hopefully
I can find a way to get you on board.
That would be an honor.
Speaker 7: Totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And this theme around like
the heart chakra of the earth, you know,
they, um, there's a group of tribes
in the High Sierra Nevadas of Colombia
that have this area of sacred sites
that they call the heart of the world.
And they, in their cosmology, believe
that everything that happens there in
this land is entangled with everything
that happens in the rest of the world.
And they perceive it almost as like
a mirror or a fractal or a holland.
Hearing around the way that these people
are coming together to restore land
and, you know, overcome deforestation
and even moving in towards building
villages and doing it with such love
and compassion and These indigenous
elders, the spiritual leaders are,
you know, leading the way and they've
practiced for centuries, millennia,
even this craft of opening the heart
and listening to the earth and having
this broader, um, yeah, awareness of, of
our role within this broader unfolding.
Speaker 2: I absolutely love now
that people are getting a bit more
interested in humbled, uh, humble
enough to actually learn because These
tribes have access to a technology.
A
Speaker 7: hundred percent.
It's a such powerful technology
Speaker 2: Exactly.
So a year ago, I think, uh, perhaps
a few weeks before we spoke, a
earthquake happened in Morocco.
took the lives of many, 3000 people died.
Many villages disappeared.
And it's this place in Morocco that is.
For me, like, I just absolutely love
going there because I reconnect with some
deep roots of this culture and people
that understand or practice Nia, which
is this term in Moroccan Arabic in Deir
Ezzah, that means the purity of intention
and they just So nice function this way
and I remember watching a documentary
that I told the stories of some people
and they, they were obviously, you know,
they went through a disaster and there,
and at the same time they were wishing
everyone well and they kind of said, we're
almost grateful that we were the receivers
because we wouldn't wish this for other
people because we know we can hold this
something, something in that realm.
And I just listening to, obviously
there's a lot of trauma and there's
a lot of help that they need
as, uh, and support, but also.
That wisdom and that power
that needs to be recognized
John: so incredible
Speaker 2: scene and I think a lot
of people know Morocco for the beauty
and depth of These wisdoms that are
of the suburb villages and rural areas
and at last mountains and the likes
But I yeah, find it really profound.
Speaker 7: Yeah, what a posture
with which to face crisis I think
Speaker 2: with dignity and also
with Love for the rest of humanity
and perhaps perhaps almost too
much humility to ask for help.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the pride That's an that's
but you know, there's a there's a place of
convergence where you can find Dignifying
weight To make sure that brothers and
sisters are, you know, getting into ease.
And obviously, I think if adds one
call to action for people is to kind of
keeping their eyes and heart open for such
situations, obviously from Morocco, but
for many other places, because we're in a
time where there's going to be a lot more.
Climate crisis and, and everything else.
So, yeah.
Uh, alternative networks, in addition to
the regular humanitarian organizations
need to be, uh, ready for that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Yeah.
And individuals need to do the
work to prepare for these shocks.
Exactly.
And to know that,
Speaker 2: to transfer technology
and make sure that resources can
be transferred really, really from
information go fast and so on.
Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Absolutely.
Um.
love to lean into this inquiry
that I've been going on.
I started a sort of book sprint in the
month of July where I was just like,
okay, I'm going to clear everything,
lock myself away in a cabin for a week.
And.
Look, look at what's being asked of me.
Like, what do I really
feel is being drawn?
And this, um, idea of the symbio scene,
this like future epoch where humanity
comes into balance with nature, it can
actually propagate harmony at scale.
And the same way indigenous cultures
lived in harmony for millennia and a
smaller scale that we could actually
have a kind of planetary civilization
and balance with earth's living systems.
And as I was, In this pursuit, I
was doing mostly reading, really.
I wasn't actually writing much.
I was just reading, reading, reading,
looking at like who holds these visions,
you know, and if we can't actually see
what's on the other side of climate
change or any of the other crises
we face, like how can we get there?
And I don't know if this is anything
that you've played with around like
a longer term view, um, but I wanted
to ask, like, Do you have a vision
for this new Dawn that's being
born and what does it look like?
Speaker 2: I love that you share
your kind of moment of asking
for what's being called for you.
I think for me, this summer is,
has also been an opportunity
to start working on a new book.
Nice.
And it's a kind of an eco sci fi.
Cool.
And with a lot of visions that
I've had throughout my journey and
kind of also through this work,
um, that I'm doing with, with
Peggy and other energy activations.
And so I'm trying to really like tuning
more with my channeling and psychic
capacities, which was not so cool for,
or even my book, uh, my being other.
And so it's a lot more present now.
And I think the combination of this plus.
Uh, whatever I'm putting together now
with Integritas, which is this ecosystem
of regenerative thinkers, actually.
It's funny that we speak because it's one
of my asks, actually, you're in my list.
Speaker 7: Cool.
Amazing.
But,
Speaker 2: um, yeah, essentially
at this time I'm, I'm kind of
like trying to be very present for
the present and the near future.
And at the same time, my aspiration
remains that of, well, a healed planet
where people Uh, seamlessly have access to
any tools that can bring them to shifting
their timelines into getting closer to
the higher selves where higher selves
communicate much better, much easier.
Well, actually people are also aware
of their gifts, you know, and when
we tell, we, we talk about telepathy,
clairvoyance, clairvoyance, and so on.
So it's kind of like this nexus of
technology beyond this technology that
I'm so grateful for, but this capacity to
say, well, something is popping up there
in here and it's uh, the, the rebalancing.
And obviously we would like practically
speaking, come to respecting planetary
boundaries, which are very far away
from course and, and understanding, you
know, and, and relating to biodiversity,
which has been massively attacked.
So it's already a lot of work.
But in addition to that, there's
also seamless interaction with,
um, other forms of intelligences.
And it's one of the topics I'm quite
interested in, actually, I've read.
a few of the books from Avi Loeb.
I've also met him.
He's, uh, had an apartment
of astronomy at Harvard.
Uh, and I was so interested that
I actually went to him and we had,
we sat for a tea and, uh, he, he
asked me my review of his book.
Um, but for me, I think we're at the time
where it's, uh, it's not far fetched.
It's impossible.
And, uh, it's, uh, We may be
this planet that needs to really
connect with other forms of life
and other universes at this point.
And I think it's asking us really.
For those that have undergone some,
many spiritual awakenings to hold others
into their own journey and, and not feed
into any divisiveness from the basis of,
you know, not as elevated or whatever.
Or anything,
Speaker 7: no other excuse
to other anyone else.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
But continue understanding that we'll,
Probably keep on incarnating ourselves
on maybe not all of us, some of us,
but, but until our souls are satisfied
with the learnings, because they always
undergo, it's a leap for becoming and
then the leap for becoming at, because
they could also decide to stay in the,
in between, which where there's no hurt.
There's no, uh, like he can't
experience that you don't
experience the dissociation,
but I think for me, it's also.
Yeah, making all these, uh, these tools
and practices and learnings and knowledge
a filling hole for everyone and then
tapping onto so much more knowledge.
Uh, you know, like being able to
sit next to that three tree and
ask, what can it share for you?
And even from a place of not necessarily
what you need, but what you would be
open to receive, be it perceptions of
that tree and history and all of that.
So I'm seeing a world like this,
where it's super interesting,
you know, like almost.
You could almost like tap into a
screen of like, Oh, and we can share
this, this, this, this, this, you
know, and it's like, and it's, you're
ever expanding at them with knowledge
and love and respect and dignity.
And it's kind of like you're
growing as a, as a soul.
So that's.
So that was already kind of getting
materialized and then I, at my scale
and in my lifetime, and at least
what I've been seeing the last few
years and what I'm seeing happen.
And working towards the next
few years, I'm kind of doing a
portion of it in my contribution.
But I think it's also, pragmatically
speaking, this aspiration to
see everyone do their part.
And so many people actually
live half of their life.
If they could tap into
that vitality and that
Speaker 3: power,
Speaker 2: oh, where would we be?
Speaker 7: I think that's what's coming.
You know, my sense is there's a,
there's a real intense period ahead.
Of likely volatility and chaos and
uncertainty and confusion, and we
may look around and be very confused
as to what is actually going on
and what is real, what is truth.
You know, we're seeing it and
feeling it today, but I think
it's, it's going to accelerate.
And I think for those that take
the calling for this chaos and this
pain as an invitation for growth,
there will be incredible beauty
and life that emerges from this.
And.
I think we all go on a healing journey
in a way similar to adolescence where
it's like, okay, there's this physical
maturation to the body that happens
in our teenage years, but then there's
this emotional and spiritual maturation
that happens often through pain.
And it's like, humanity is reaching
this point where we've You know,
done our adolescent thing of running
out of the house, slamming the
door, ignoring our great mother,
assuming she had nothing to teach us.
We knew it all.
And now we're looking around at
rising tides and rising temperatures
and everything that she's
telling us and going, Oh, okay.
Maybe there is something here.
Maybe she does have something to say.
And I think, I'll
Speaker 2: add to this.
It's.
Uh, and my invitation is also, um,
bringing ourselves into a place
where we can build from the future.
Speaker 4: So nice.
So nice.
Speaker 2: The future making future
thinking, um, you know, a lot of people
would, uh, you know, background that is
fit for organizations that do scenarios
for the future and then drive the
economy essentially, uh, think like
this, but it's, it's bigger than this.
What?
Like in the creative manner, how do
we connect with aspirational future,
which is this invitation on our
higher selves because we can manifest
from our subconscious and from lower
places of fears, hidden fears, you
can manifest from our higher selves.
Yes.
Kind of like choice.
That's
John: so nice.
Speaker 2: Being really
uplifted by the future and,
and, and, and striving to make.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Absolutely.
I really appreciate this perspective.
We did like a back casting exercise
of, you know, imagine we're in
2050 looking back this moment now.
Like, what did we do here today
to make the more beautiful
world that we knew is possible?
Speaker 2: So in 2050, if we're meeting
again, I hope there's many more humans
from your lineage and my lineage.
And that is a big party, obviously
I hope there's just, uh, the same
expression of love that we have today
in terms of hugging and thinking and
all of that self laboratory approach.
I hope they refer to some of
what we did to, as in something
foundational or something that gave
them strength and inspiration to
move for whatever they had to do.
Um, I hope the nature is intact.
Speaker 4: I
Speaker 2: hope there are
many birds and animals.
I hope we can communicate
with them seamlessly.
Um, that's why I'm hoping that we're
so beautiful if we record a podcast.
Speaker 7: A hundred percent.
Yeah.
My kids will be there.
And, uh, It's gonna be a
joy, a real celebration.
I think we'll get through and I know
people like you are paving the way
and doing what you were born to do.
It is a real honor to
see you continue to grow.
Yeah.
One year after another.
And, uh, see me as an ally
for what you're doing.
I really celebrate you and, um, bless you.
Thank you.
Bless you, . Thank you
for your time today.
John: Thank you.
Speaker 7: Planet