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In this episode of The Hot Dish, hosts Heidi Heitkamp and Joel Heitkamp are joined by Nebraska State Senator Machaela Cavanaugh to discuss her efforts to gain access to a state-run federal immigration detention center. Senator Cavanaugh shares her experiences of being denied access to the facility, her political background, and the impact of the detention center on local communities. The conversation also touches on broader political issues, including the role of state legislatures and the importance of local elections.
- (00:00) - Introduction to Senator Machaela Kavanaugh
- (03:42) - Political Background and Family Dynamics
- (06:12) - Concerns Over Immigration Detention Center
- (09:34) - Access Denied: A State Senator's Struggle
- (13:40) - Legislative Oversight and Lack of Action
- (16:33) - The Bigger Picture: National Implications of Detention Centers
- (19:44) - Public Pressure and Advocacy Strategies
- (21:55) - The Role of Local Politics in National Issues
- (25:30) - Impact on Local Communities and Workforce
- (28:05) - Religious Influence on Political Decisions
- (30:08) - Conclusion: Standing Up for Justice and Human Rights
- (31:52) - New Year Predictions and Political Landscape
- (36:35) - The Impact of Donald Trump on the Republican Party
- (42:52) - Agriculture and Economic Concerns for Rural America
Creators and Guests
Host
Heidi Heitkamp
U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp served as the first female senator elected from North Dakota from 2013 – 2019. he is the founder and Chair of the One Country Project, an organization focused on addressing the needs and concerns of rural America. Heidi was recently named the Director of the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago, a university she has long been committed to and a place where she enjoys engaging with students over civic discussions while encouraging them to seek opportunities in public service to our country. Heidi also serves as a contributor to both CNBC and ABC News.
Host
Producer
Cheri Brisendine
Assistant Producer at Voxtopica
Guest
Machaela Cavanaugh
MacGuineas is the president of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Her areas of expertise include budget, tax, and economic policy. MacGuineas has published broadly, including in The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Financial Times, and The Atlantic.
What is The Hot Dish?
Former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp and her brother, KFGO radio talk show host Joel Heitkamp, engage in animated discussions with newsmakers, elected leaders, and policymakers who are creating new opportunities for rural Americans and finding practical solutions to their challenges. Punctuated with entertaining conversations and a healthy dose of sibling rivalry, The Hot Dish, from the One Country Project, is informative, enlightening, and downright fun.
Heidi (00:05)
Welcome to the Hot Dish, Comfort Food for Rural America. I'm Heidi Heitkamp.
Joel Heitkamp (00:10)
And I'm Joel Heitkamp. Today we're joined by Senator Michaela Kavanaugh. Senator Kavanaugh has served Nebraska's six districts since 2018. She has recently been pushing back against an immigration detention center in Nebraska. Senator Kavanaugh was denied access to this facility twice. She's here to tell us what she's doing about this. Senator, welcome to the hot dash and thanks for joining us.
Machaela Cavanaugh (00:33)
Thank you so much for having me. ⁓ I was concerned because we call it casserole in Nebraska.
Joel Heitkamp (00:40)
Hahaha! ⁓
Heidi (00:40)
Yeah.
Well, listen, Michaela, ⁓ we want to visit with you about your work ⁓ and why you're so concerned about this detention facility. But before we do that, let's have people get to know you a little bit. ⁓ Joel and I actually served, I was attorney general when he was in the state ⁓ Senate ⁓ for what? Probably about eight years almost, Joel, right? Yeah.
Joel Heitkamp (01:10)
Yeah, no, it was 14.
Heidi (01:14)
14 of the longest years of our life.
Joel Heitkamp (01:16)
It was it was long. I'm Michaela.
I am the one high cap between the two of us that never ever lost an election. So hey.
Heidi (01:25)
Well, that's because
he didn't really risk much. You know, don't lose if you don't risk. If you're shooting high, know, sometimes the risk is high. But Michaela, yet you come from a political family and obviously Omaha is one of those spots in Nebraska that tends more towards blue. You're a Democrat. Can you just tell me about your family and your family dynamics serving together in a unicameral ⁓ Senate?
Joel Heitkamp (01:28)
there.
Machaela Cavanaugh (01:29)
You
Yeah,
yeah, I am from a political family. ⁓ I'm number four of eight and I serve in the Nebraska legislature with my younger brother, John. says, he likes to say much younger. He's like 20 months younger than me. ⁓
Heidi (02:08)
He must be related to Joel.
Joel calls me his aunt until until you you he starts calling you aunt. You're okay. You're okay.
Joel Heitkamp (02:14)
you
Machaela Cavanaugh (02:19)
Okay,
⁓ so yeah, my brother John and I served together. We've served together for six years. I was there first. I say he follows me ⁓ because I ran for the legislature and then two years later he ran for the legislature. So our terms have overlapped a little bit. ⁓ My dad served in the US Congress in the 70s and my great my grandfather was on the county board and
My great uncle was on the Public Service Commission and on and on and on. So yeah, my family has always had a heart for public service. ⁓ I'm the first one of my generation to have run for office. And I'm also the first woman of any of the generation to run for office. But I love serving with my brother, Wee Carpool. He has four kids, I have three kids, and our kids play together constantly. And so yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of chaos.
Joel Heitkamp (03:10)
Yeah, and
Michaela I was 32 when I started in the legislature, so I needed my big sister Heidi, who is attorney general. She was incredibly helpful, full disclosure, and now on the hot dish that we have video. They don't know who's older between the two of us, but I'm not going there. So Michaela, you know when it comes to Omaha.
Heidi (03:25)
Ha ha ha ha!
Joel Heitkamp (03:32)
and what Omaha is like. Tell people so they understand in a red state what it's like to win in a blue town.
Machaela Cavanaugh (03:42)
Well, so actually, interestingly, when I ran for the legislature in 2018, I was running in a red district, and so in a blue town. And I got pregnant. And I had a baby between the primary and the general election, which I joked because my mom had obviously had eight children. I I thought that when you women in my family were just supposed to be pregnant when somebody was running for office.
Joel Heitkamp (03:53)
you
Machaela Cavanaugh (04:09)
because that was how she did it. But yeah, being a blue dot, now my district is purple, ⁓ I really don't think about it as red and blue so much as that it's just issues. And the fact is that we just, as long as everybody focuses on the issues that are impacting people's lives, that political party doesn't really have that much to do with it. I mean, the economy right now is something that is
impacting everyone. And I have always been more of the mind to talk to people in a real and authentic way about how life is impacting them. But Omaha is a great town. It's very heavy investment in the arts here. And we have great public schools and public libraries and public parks. And so it's really a community based town.
Heidi (05:01)
Well, and it has a lot of opportunities and what we're seeing is, you take a look at Kansas city, you take a look at Omaha. And now that Congressman Bacon, Don Bacon has decided to retire. I think there's a lot of Democrats who think that that one district now, ⁓ I think it's congressional district two, ⁓ is basically up for grabs. And those races, even as moderate as what Bacon was, he had a tough couple races.
⁓ you know, I think that, you know, he's, he's been somebody who's been willing to rock the boat. ⁓ and I, I hope that tradition continues with whoever replaces him in Omaha.
Machaela Cavanaugh (05:44)
I think if it's my brother, the boat will be rocked.
Heidi (05:46)
Yeah?
Joel Heitkamp (05:48)
wait till Heidi sends that check, Michaela. So that'll push him over there.
Heidi (05:51)
Yeah, yeah.
Joel Heitkamp (05:53)
Let me ask you this. As a state senator, as somebody that served in the legislature with such a rich history with your family, there's people in Omaha said, you're not welcome. You can't come in. You can't check it out. Tell people where, why, and when this happened.
Machaela Cavanaugh (06:12)
Okay, yeah, so going out to the internment camp ⁓ or as Kristi Noem once called it the corn husker clink I've never called it that because I think giving it a cutesy name is Disrespectful to the people who are being illegally detained ⁓ So I call it what it is an internment camp. It's in McCook, Nebraska. It's about four hours and 20 minutes from my house. I ⁓ Actually canceled a work trip
because I had child care lined up for my kids, I decided that that was a good time for me to take a visit out there. And this is something that I'm known to do generally. I have gone and visited state facilities unannounced several times while I've been in the legislature. In September, I went to our youth rehabilitation treatment center in Kearney, Nebraska, unannounced because I was in Kearney. So I thought, I'm just going to check in on the kiddos that are being detained there.
So this isn't an uncommon thing for me to do. And I waited until the facility had detainees there. I know some people had a scheduled tour of the facility as they were renovating it, getting it ready. But I wanted to see what it's like in real time, in real life. So I drove on November 12th. Yeah.
Heidi (07:26)
before you go further, can you just explain
what this facility is? And a lot of people would say, well, it's a federal facility. What's that to you? Explain how this facility got converted to the folks who are watching.
Machaela Cavanaugh (07:41)
It's
not a federal facility. It is a state facility with state employees with a contract with the federal government. So the state is accepting into our custody the care of these individuals that have been detained by ICE. And it is a facility in McCook, Nebraska called the Work Ethic Camp. under the Department of Corrections.
It was created as a community corrections type of program to transition people out of the prison back into their communities. ⁓ The people that were detained there, they just had an art show in October that was like all over the news here locally. That was really cool. And they brought the community in it. And it was a really big part of the McCook community. They worked in the community as well. ⁓ And so that's a loss of a workforce for McCook. And then they had to
put them back into an overcrowded prison system for their remaining months before they were going to be released. So it was really a poor policy choice from most people's perspectives, very unpopular in McCook. ⁓ They were really happy with the work ethic camp as it was. ⁓ So yeah, but when I went out there, it still says the Department of Corrections on it and everybody's ⁓
outfits all have the embroidered Nebraska Department of Corrections. And I did make it inside the reception area the first day. And you know, when you go into a federal building, there's always a picture of the president always doesn't matter. Always. There was not a picture of the president. There was a picture of me. Yeah, there's a picture because they have the legislators. They have all of our pictures up on the wall and
Heidi (09:25)
Wow, why?
Machaela Cavanaugh (09:34)
I was like, wasn't this something?
Joel Heitkamp (09:37)
Well, it's it's like an acknowledgement that it's a state facility. I mean that debate well and that debate was over anyway. The way you described it. ⁓ Michaela the people in it you know that you're trying to look out for and make sure that they're not treated the way we know they're being treated drug through the streets and treated as less than human. ⁓ Is that why do they just not want you in there because you're actually an advocate for human beings?
Machaela Cavanaugh (09:42)
Yes.
I think it's very concerning that I was turned away. I will say that the warden was expecting to let me in because she, that's what anytime a state senator has ever visited the facility previously, they have been allowed in. So she was told by the director of corrections that I wasn't to be allowed in. I did come armed with copies of the state statute that clearly state that
any member of the legislature shall be admitted to any facility at any time. No ambiguity whatsoever about it. Doesn't say except if there's a contract or no stipulations. ⁓ And so I did have that with me. I gave it to them. I made sure that they understood that they were in violation of state statute by not allowing me in. I talked to the director on the phone that evening while I was standing there in the lobby and I
told him that I wouldn't leave until I had something in writing, which we had a little back and forth about, but eventually he did send an email to the warden that she printed off and handed to me. ⁓ Then I started to drive home when I was turned away and I got halfway home to Kearney, Nebraska, was refilling my gas. I was very tired. I had just driven two hours on a dark country road. So I decided to stay the night. And as I was there in the hotel, I thought to myself,
Well, he said that he couldn't let me in because I didn't give him notice. So I sent him an email and I said, here's your notice. I'll be back tomorrow morning. And so I got my car and I drove back the next morning. And that's when they wouldn't let me in beyond the fence. And they just handed me information through the fence. ⁓ They said they were not allowed to let me in at the direction of the director. I repeatedly said.
Under what authority is he directing you to violate this section of statute? They said that he wasn't Assiding any specific authority. He they just were being told that they couldn't let me in So I you know just collected that information I talked to the governor's chief of staff and and to the director and I said I need a written explanation as to why you're doing this
And I did get one later that day. And yeah, they just pretty much then I took it to the legislature and they didn't act. If you want me to tell you about that, that's another story.
Joel Heitkamp (12:39)
Well,
Heidi (12:39)
Yeah,
Joel Heitkamp (12:39)
I do.
Heidi (12:39)
what was their explanation? Yeah, what was their explanation?
Machaela Cavanaugh (12:42)
their expl-
that it was a federal contract and that it was a security issue and ⁓ that I hadn't given proper notice. They never told me what notice to give. I said, I mean, I gave you 11 hours notice in a 24 hour facility. That feels like enough notice ⁓ to me. But they said that I didn't give proper notice. They didn't tell me what proper notice was. And, ⁓ and basically that was it. They don't-
Well, they didn't recognize my authority because of the federal contract, though the federal contract specifically states that if any part of the contract is in conflict with state statute, that that part of the contract is void and not the rest of the contract.
Joel Heitkamp (13:17)
Did did did
So did they have the authority to enter into that contract?
Machaela Cavanaugh (13:31)
They had the authority to enter into the contract, but they didn't have the authority to supersede state statute, which the contract acknowledges itself.
Joel Heitkamp (13:37)
OK, OK, I get it.
Well, it's
Heidi (13:40)
So it's...
Joel Heitkamp (13:41)
a state facility. They have to adhere to state law. ⁓ You know, to me, this is a perfect example of what's going on in America right now. ⁓ It isn't just you. Fortunately for the people in Nebraska, you've got somebody with the...
Heidi (13:55)
right?
Joel Heitkamp (14:00)
fortitude, there's other words I'd use, to go there and get in their face and to do what you can do. But when you spoke to the other, you said the legislature didn't act on it. Why? You know, who were you debating on this? Because it wouldn't matter what side of the aisle I'm on. The statute is the statute. And did the Attorney General say anything about this in Nebraska?
Machaela Cavanaugh (14:26)
So I ⁓ took all of the information that I had received from the governor's administration and I sent it to the legislature. I sent it to our executive committee, which oversees basically if we're going to sue over something. ⁓ And then I sent it to the chair of our legislative oversight committee, which I also sit, I'm the only Democrat on that committee. So I'm also a member of the oversight committee and I was turned away.
And I also, it sent it to our speaker. And ⁓ at first, none of them responded. And I called them as well. And so ⁓ then when the oversight chair did respond eventually, he called me back and we had a conversation that he didn't understand the statute to mean what I understood it to mean.
I encouraged him to call former members of the legislature who were Republicans and ask their opinion because I felt like maybe he was being led down the wrong path by the governor's office. ⁓ But ultimately, none of them really did anything. And so that's when I sent it to the press. I waited until like two weeks ago and I went on November 12th.
You know, I wasn't planning on sending it to the press except for that they weren't taking any action. And I was like, well, I tried. I tried to go through the proper channels. There were other things I could have done. I could have gone over to the courthouse and asked for a court order to force myself in there. I could have called the state patrol and asked them to come enforce the statute. I didn't do those things because I wasn't trying to be bombastic. I was trying to do my job and I wanted the legislature to
support me as a colleague and a member of the body and also to support the legislature in our role of government oversight, but there was not an appetite to take action. So I did to
Heidi (16:33)
You know, Michaela, this is,
yeah, this is part of a bigger national story, which is that these detention centers are popping up all over with cutesy names, right? ⁓ You know, the alligator alcatraz, which now is shut down because it was heinous and horrible, in spite of spending, you know, millions and millions and millions of taxpayer dollars to, you know, have a photo op.
Machaela Cavanaugh (16:45)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (17:02)
The concerning part about this is that people like you who have a right to access, including people from Congress who have tried to have these conversations have been turned away. What are they afraid of? If these are the worst of the worst, why wouldn't they want people to meet these worst of the worst people that they're deporting and that they're detaining? You know, and I have to speculate.
My speculation is that there's probably some American citizens in that facility. And when you walk in, you're going to find out who they are. You're going to be able to get their names. And all of that is being hidden from the American public. But you see in polling, the American public is starting to question whether in fact, this is the right thing for our country. recently, Kristi Noem was at a, Secretary Noem was at a hearing.
And she said there weren't any veterans or American citizens who were detained. They had a, you know, basically a YouTube video or a streaming video of a veteran who is an American citizen saying that's not true. mean, when do we get transparency and how do people like you, ⁓ with a lot of courage to buck the system, how do we help you become successful?
Machaela Cavanaugh (18:29)
⁓ Well, one of my former colleagues once called me aggressively tenacious. So I don't stop and I'm not planning on stopping until there's some resolution. I did send an email today to Director Jeffries of our Department of Corrections, ⁓ citing the court case from last week, the federal judge that declared it. ⁓
not illegal, I guess, for ICE to not allow members of Congress in, that they had to give seven days notice that they weren't allowed. So I sent that to the director this morning asking if I could get an update on how, since that was what they were saying, they had to follow ICE protocols. And now the federal government has said, no, ⁓ I expect a change to come for me as well. ⁓ I don't know what they could possibly say.
to that if the federal judge has already decided it. So I think we just have to, I mean, you people say Democrats always bring like a spreadsheet to a knife fight or whatever, but I like to say I bring a binder to a knife fight and I will just whack you with it. Like just keep going through, it's exhausting, but just keep going through processes and also keep public pressure.
Heidi (19:44)
you
Joel Heitkamp (19:44)
Ha ha ha ha ha
Machaela Cavanaugh (19:56)
My colleagues and I, back in August when this was announced, a group of us decided we're not going to let this happen without it coming at a political cost. So we asked our judiciary committee to hold a hearing and a briefing, and the chair refused. We asked ⁓ our appropriations committee to hold a hearing and a briefing, and the chair refused.
Then one of my colleagues, Democrat colleague, who's the only Democrat who's the chair of a committee, he's chair of Urban Affairs. And Urban Affairs has under its purview facilities. So he held a public hearing and invited all the players in the governor's administration and they refused to come to his public briefing. ⁓ So we just kept.
And every single time that happened, it was another news story reminding people because people will forget. So I think it's really important for anybody who has a platform to continue to talk about the fact that this is happening.
Heidi (20:58)
And Joel, I'll let you ask, get a word in here edgewise, but I think for those people who are listening, I think this is important because I think so much emphasis is on Congress, so much emphasis is on what happens in the White House. But these state legislative races, having people who are courageous and you see it in Indiana with people bucking the president ⁓ basically on redistricting.
Joel Heitkamp (21:02)
Ha ha.
Heidi (21:26)
These jobs matter. And so, you know, I want to just encourage people to really think locally or think about your legislature as you're going into this next political system and think about running, think about, you know, supporting people like Michaela and her brother who are fighting for the things that you believe in because, ⁓ you know, a lot of policy gets made in state legislatures and that's where the Koch brothers really started taking over.
Machaela Cavanaugh (21:42)
Yes.
Heidi (21:55)
with their philosophy ⁓ in so many of these state houses. So it's important.
Machaela Cavanaugh (21:55)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Heitkamp (22:00)
So,
Michaela, are you going to sue him?
Machaela Cavanaugh (22:03)
Well, if they come back and say that they're still not going to let me in whenever I show up, then that is the next course of action. So this basically the letter I sent today is their last chance to stop a lawsuit from happening. But I don't feel like I have an option. they don't uphold the law, I'm going to have to force them to.
Joel Heitkamp (22:12)
OK, another question for you.
Yeah,
it'll edit.
Machaela Cavanaugh (22:29)
And I did not ask our
attorney general for an opinion because he is very good at the mental gymnastics of law speak to do whatever the hooves the governor.
Joel Heitkamp (22:41)
Well, no one in the world is going to ask Kristi Noem to join their Trivial Pursuit team. I mean, that's just the truth. You know, she isn't the brightest bulb, but she's mean. I mean, she's vicious. She wants to be popular. ⁓ You know, she wants to to go on every source of media she can, preferably conservative. And she sees that as something that's going to help her in her career someday. But behind the scenes of all this, Michaela, are you hearing at all?
Machaela Cavanaugh (22:47)
you
Joel Heitkamp (23:10)
from employers because where I'm at, doesn't matter. I'm hearing more and more on my radio show from employers because they can't grow their companies. They've lost good workers. Their workers have become part of their family before they were drug out by their hair in some cases. So my question of you, know, Omaha to me isn't some small town.
You know Omaha is a town that's got a lot of great diverse jobs. Are you hearing from employers?
Machaela Cavanaugh (23:41)
So in Omaha specifically, ⁓ we have Omaha's very ⁓
We have coded language for our segregation. And we have North Omaha, which is the black community. We have South Omaha, which is the Latino community or the immigrant community. And South Omaha is suffering. ⁓ People are not showing up to their jobs. Kids are not showing up to school. The grocery store, the local grocery store in the neighborhood is really suffering because people are afraid to.
do things. I mean, it is impacting that community significantly, but in the greater part of the state, it's even worse because, I mean, in agriculture in rural areas, this is the workforce. And so, you know, the meat packing plants in some parts of Nebraska are suffering and the cost of meat is going to go up because, I mean, these were deemed essential workers during the shutdown.
Joel Heitkamp (24:42)
Right.
Heidi (24:43)
Yeah,
everybody forgets that, don't they? They're essential until Steve Miller decides they're not.
Machaela Cavanaugh (24:47)
They were.
They were essential. They were dying and getting COVID at higher rate, at extremely high rates because they weren't doing mitigation of distancing. And those same people who kept us all fed throughout COVID are now being detained. And it just, doesn't make any sense. But if I could.
Joel Heitkamp (25:11)
So Michaela,
this question isn't relevant in terms of how you should be treated. So there's my precursor to it. But when you look at South Omaha, the very community that you pointed out is being hurt by this so bad, how did they vote?
I mean, did they vote red? Because there was a lot of Latinos this last election that switched over to support this president that is doing this to them. so two parts of the question. Number one, how did they vote? And the ones that voted red? Are you seeing signs that they've changed your mind?
Machaela Cavanaugh (25:30)
you
⁓ So predominantly, it went blue for ⁓ Kamala and, ⁓ and they have a Democrat representative, they are a more moderate community, I would say, especially because they're heavily Catholic. And so they tend to ⁓ Republicans appeal to them on on reproductive health issues, essentially. But
I think that they underperform in voting because we're not great about the language barrier and we're not great about getting out the vote in their community. I think we could have a much stronger ⁓ electorate if we did more to connect with their community specifically.
Heidi (26:40)
Well, and there's also voter suppression. I remember a story in Western Nebraska, ⁓ a community of basically meatpacking workers who basically had access to the polls. They're American citizens, had access to the polls within a couple miles, and they moved their polling site 30 miles away. And so Joel, never underestimate that if they think that
Machaela Cavanaugh (26:43)
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heidi (27:08)
And making it harder to vote does in fact suppress the vote.
Joel Heitkamp (27:12)
Well,
what I just heard from you, Michaela, is number one.
The hope is you're going to get more people out to vote because a lot of them are going to be ticked off and they're going to vote on that one issue of how they're going to be treated. Number two, what I heard from you is that religion plays a role in their politics. And when it comes to the Catholic Church, you know, for me as a Catholic, the Pope plays a big role in what's happening. And the Pope in this particular case has made it perfectly.
clear where the Catholic Church is when it comes to what's happening. And so this could be the worst political move just strictly past the human rights issue, but the worst political move ⁓ for the Trump administration and for local votes.
Machaela Cavanaugh (27:47)
Yes.
Yeah, we Omaha is a heavily Catholic town. have Boys Town here in Omaha, and I am also Catholic. It's the one of eight children. But I, I
Joel Heitkamp (28:17)
one of seven as my mom
put it Michaela I'm the one she found out about before the pill came out but that's a whole other issue ⁓
Heidi (28:30)
Thank God we could only have one Joel.
Joel Heitkamp (28:32)
You
Machaela Cavanaugh (28:35)
well, I, yeah. So as far as like the Catholic aspect of it, I will say that our Catholic conference here in Nebraska has been outspoken against this internment camp, which I appreciate because generally speaking, we fall on opposite sides of a lot of things, but they, they have been really good about the Catholic social teachings and
really advocating for policies that help the poor and ⁓ marginalized communities. but you know, then they kind of go back in another direction on other issues. So I don't think that they'll be partnering and trying to get out blue voters, but they certainly are outspoken.
Joel Heitkamp (29:20)
Well, I can tell you this. ⁓ I use binders. It work a lot. And, you know, there's the three prongs. I get that. But in the front of that binder is that little slip where you can sneak that piece of paper, right? Put lead in that if you're going to smack somebody with it, because they got it coming, Michaela. OK.
Heidi (29:34)
hahahaha
Well, I think that the people have seen this issue as, you know, like a Southern issue or a West coast, East coast issue. And those of us who realize that some of the fastest growing ⁓ neighborhoods are minority neighborhoods in the places where we live. And they're hardworking people who are now being terrorized. And not because they're
Machaela Cavanaugh (29:40)
Bye.
Heidi (30:08)
necessarily here illegally, they, they're indiscriminately being snatched up. And I don't care what, what, what BS the department of Homeland security is spewing when they say we do not arrest American citizens. It's bullshit. And we have to absolutely stand up and not that anyone should be treated like this, but can you imagine simply because you're a brown person.
You're snatched up off the street and you're detained and you have no ability to talk to your family. You feel like you have no rights. And this politically is going to come home to haunt, I think this administration, but it is wrong on so many levels. And we're going to look back in history and Michaela, we're going to look back at people like you. And we're going to say, those are the heroes. Those were the people who were standing for.
for the rule of law, those are the people who are standing for justice ⁓ and human rights. And so we're proud to have met you today and ⁓ hope that you're incredibly successful and that your ring binder ⁓ gets swung a few times and pounded on the table to get the job done.
Machaela Cavanaugh (31:10)
Thank you.
Joel Heitkamp (31:20)
Well, and one other thing, Michaela, you know, Heidi talks about heroes. ⁓ People like your brother are heroes that are willing to put their name on the ballot, willing to understand the issue. ⁓ You know, and if he's half as tenacious as you, by God, Congress needs him. So thanks. Thanks for joining us on the hot dish. And this is one of those ones that guys got to keep his eye on. So thanks, Michaela.
Machaela Cavanaugh (31:20)
Probably will.
Heidi (31:37)
Hahaha!
Machaela Cavanaugh (31:38)
It.
Thank you both so much. was lovely meeting you.
Heidi (31:52)
Joel, we're in the midterm year. It's brand new. So what's your prediction? Now we'll do some new year's predictions.
Joel Heitkamp (31:59)
Well...
Yeah, well, I think 2026 is a year that all of us who want to see our country have a chance ⁓ to become a democracy again, in terms of how people are treated. ⁓ 2026 is a year we've been waiting for. And I think America is getting it. You know, they talk about polling numbers when it comes to Donald Trump. ⁓ And then they talk about the popularity of the Democratic Party. what they never bring up
when it comes to the popularity of the Democratic Party is what the popularity of a given candidate is. And when you look at those poll numbers, Hyde, you know, you're seeing good things on the way for Democrats if things stay the way they're at now.
Heidi (32:36)
Yep.
Well, and I think that the good news is that Democrats all across the board, whether it is in congressional races, people are stepping up to run and making races competitive. And it's no longer whispering. They are mad and they're ready to do something about it. And that includes running for office. And so my prediction is that a lot of these local races where you're
Joel Heitkamp (32:56)
Yeah.
Heidi (33:12)
getting people who are popular in their local community who are standing up, those are going to drive some turnout numbers that may in fact swing ⁓ the Democrats way as well.
Joel Heitkamp (33:23)
Yeah, that's a great point. You are spot on right. And as somebody who's active in my district, you know, trying to search for candidates, it's not as hard to have people sit down and talk to you. And a lot of it, Hyde, is financial. You know, the people that are really being hurt.
dollar wise because of his approach to the economy. And of course, I come from a farm area. And these people aren't looking for handouts. That isn't what they want. They don't want that at all. They want a chance at a market in a free market. And so I think that, you know, this whole I can send them money and they'll love me. There's no doubt there's some people like that. But there's there's people that aren't. And so I think you're spot on right, we can find some candidates out there.
Heidi (34:13)
So ⁓ prediction Joel, Democrats take the house.
Joel Heitkamp (34:18)
yeah, Democrats take the House and Democrats surprise them on a Senate race or two. I think that the gap becomes more ⁓ narrow and I think that Republicans, if you look at what's happening, they can feel it. And you served in the United States Senate. If you wake up the day after the election and you find out that Democrats in fact did take control of the Senate, would it shock you?
Heidi (34:45)
No, not anymore. I think that when you look at some of these races, it's going to be really, really interesting. The one thing that will be kind of outrageous is that there's a number of these ⁓ races where ⁓ sitting members of the Senate who are in midterm are running for governor. So the Senate, I mean, the Democrats could win and then we're back in.
kind of, you know, whether Matt, Marsha Blackburn wins in Tennessee where she's running for governor, Michael Bennett's running for governor, that brilliant, brilliant, brilliant legislator, Tommy Tuberville. And I say that very sarcastically is running for governor. And so there's a number of these kinds of transitions that I think will also ⁓ roll over into 2027 and Katie barred the door, but.
Joel Heitkamp (35:25)
Yeah.
Heidi (35:38)
Honestly, if you look at the swings in some of these districts that we're seeing in the special election, if those hold true, you know, I think there's a shot in Ohio with Sherrod. I think Iowa is in play. I've always thought Iowa is in play, especially given what he's done to the farm economy and the growth that I see in talent in Iowa. I think you're looking at, ⁓ you know, who knows what's going to happen in Georgia.
Joel Heitkamp (36:05)
North Carolina?
Heidi (36:06)
North Carolina, clearly great candidate there. Maine, you know, I think that her luck may be running out. so, I mean, but I also want to encourage the people who listen to us to think about these local races. Think about how important it is to have somebody who's willing to stand on the floor of a legislative body and speak truth to power like Michaela. And so,
⁓ You know, it's gonna be an interesting year. There's gonna be a lot of dialogue back and forth But the single biggest reason why I think it's gonna be a huge Democratic year is cuz Donald Trump doesn't get it He can never admit that Hit he has driven this economy in the wrong direction He's just gonna keep saying what he's gonna say which is it's the best economy in the history of the world and you can't tell people Who are paying the bills?
that they are making this up.
Joel Heitkamp (37:06)
Well, here's something you can't tell people. You can't sit there, mute the one Democrat on the committee for the Kennedy Center, say that it was a unanimous vote and that it surprised you. And the next day, watch the letters go up on the building. I mean, the next day, the letters go up on the building. I mean, and nobody's going. I mean, here's my tell. And people who listen to, you know, the hot dish understand my background and who I am.
They boo him at football games now. It'll be interesting. The only place I don't know if he'll get booed at, and I'm not sure that is at NASCAR races. He's getting booed wherever he goes and it's killing him. Because this is a man who every room he's in, he has 10 mirrors. He likes looking at himself. And so I don't know, I can tell you this as a radio talk show host.
I used to be able to get them fired up and start a big debate ⁓ in regards to Donald Trump. If I leaned into the microphone and said, Donald Trump, I'd get opinions from both sides. I'm not getting a lot of conservative opinions to call into the show anymore. They're just putting their head down because they don't want to defend it. I'm not saying they wouldn't vote for him. I don't know that. What I'm saying is they don't want to defend the crap.
Heidi (38:26)
Well, and I think the other thing that everybody needs to understand, there is no, there's no surrogate. It's not like, like there's an heir apparent. mean, JD Vance is not Donald Trump. And so if you send Donald Trump out there, he is, he's your guy, right? He is the voice of the mega movement. He is the voice of the Republican party. And when he's not hitting on all cylinders,
there's no backup because they all have been syncopats. And so, you know, who are you going to send out to, to fire up the troops? If, if not Donald Trump, you can send Lindsey Graham. I don't think so. He's not going to, he doesn't have that kind of charisma. You're going to send John Thune? No. mean, so, so he is a one man show and I think that's going to hurt the Republicans.
Joel Heitkamp (39:07)
No, no.
Well, and here's the other thing, as long as we're making predictions in about ⁓ August, ⁓ people can say, you know what? I remember Joel saying that on the hot dish. I think physically isn't well. I think you're going to find out that that this guy is not what he what he's portraying himself to be. I think he's a 79 year old man who's kicking on 80. And with all due respect to 80 year olds out there, you can't.
be 34 and be president. And I've been saying for a long time, you shouldn't be 80 and be president. And I said that about Joe Biden. And, you know, this guy is looking really, really old. And if you golf all the time, you say, well, it takes away the stress. It doesn't. It's he's still got people talking in his ear saying you got to go to North Carolina and rally up the troops. And so
I don't know. I think the biggest prediction I'd have is that physically, mentally, he's really going to have a year to struggle in 2026.
Heidi (40:15)
Well, and, and, you know, look at his motivation right now. If you said, what's the one thing that would make, make him turn cartwheels in spite of his age, it's winning the Nobel peace prize. And so he has been so focused on foreign policy to the detriment of his base. That's not what his base hired him to do. They want him to stay home and fix problems here at home. And you know, the other thing, and I think this is true when you look at, ⁓ the border.
There's been success in stopping illegal boarding crossings and the flood of people. So, you know, that's fine. It's like Joe Biden getting the economy back going after COVID. What have you done for me lately? That's not a laurel you can rest on.
Joel Heitkamp (41:01)
Right.
Yeah, he's not running again. So you know, and the people that are running aren't going to jump up and down and say, boy, I was there to help shut down the border. ⁓ You know, you were very critical. And you pointed out that Democrats could have done more when it comes to the border. You were just honest about that. ⁓ He can declare victory all he wants. The truth is, most of the wars he's saying he ended, nobody knows where the hell the countries are. Yeah.
Heidi (41:28)
Well, not only that, but they're still fighting. ⁓
Joel Heitkamp (41:32)
Yeah, but but here's the thing 2026
is going to mean for people. ⁓ I hope the economy is good to them. I really do. I think AI is going to continue to grow. ⁓ But I think we're one country basis where we want to remind people where they're at. I don't think this is going to be good year for egg. I just don't. Heidi, I wish I could say it was because.
Heidi (41:39)
To all you throwers.
Joel Heitkamp (41:57)
It matters to me. These are my neighbors. These are my friends. These are guys who are wearing tuxedos in my wedding, right? And I worry for them. And it ends up affecting me in the economy as well. So I'm hoping that egg turns around a little bit.
Heidi (42:12)
Well, and I will tell you this, that people who think that agriculture is, that this big ⁓ influx of money is something that's going to turn the tide with the majority of people in rural America, guess what? The majority of people in rural America aren't getting those checks. In fact, a small percentage of people in rural America are getting those checks. And in the meantime, they're still,
you know, having to buy expensive groceries, they're still losing their job. They still have insecurity in healthcare. The healthcare stuff is going to hit hard, And so I mean, you and I have talked a lot about this stuff, but I just wanted to get your prediction. I think that this is ⁓ at least at this point in time, you have to assume that this is going to be a typical midterm where the majority party loses a lot of seats and could potentially lose the Senate.
Joel Heitkamp (42:52)
⁓
OK, last one before I wish you a Happy New Year. Neither the Vikings nor the Packers will win the Super Bowl this year. So there, that's one I'm fairly confident on.
Heidi (43:17)
Ha
⁓
well, you saw, you saw what ⁓ what the quarterback for the Bears said. He said, we expect to see this team. This is a pretty good Packers team. Although, you know, I lived in. Yeah, no, the Packers won the first game, Joel. The Packers won in Lambeau and they lost. Come on. That's that they beat the Bears.
Joel Heitkamp (43:33)
Yeah. Is that before or after he beat him twice?
I meant mentally.
Heidi (43:50)
Yeah, right. Good recovery. But I do have to confess Nick's loyalty because when I moved to Chicago, I got so defensive when people would criticize Chicago. so it was, yeah, yeah, yeah, fair weather, Fred. Fair weather, Fred. Yeah, there you go. So who, hey, hey, so who does win the Super Bowl, Joel?
Joel Heitkamp (43:51)
Yeah.
folks, here it comes. Here it comes. Yeah, don't get it. It's either in your blood or it isn't. So Happy New Year, Heidi.
⁓ man, ⁓ that's tough question. Obviously it's not going to be Kansas City. I don't think Philadelphia wins. ⁓ The New England Patriots look really good. They look really good. ⁓ I tell you, I if I had to make any prediction, it'd be Seattle. Yep, I think Sam Darnold. Yeah, I well, I think that they showed ⁓ they're going to play the Rams at home probably, and they should that field in Seattle.
Heidi (44:32)
Really? Over the rams?
Joel Heitkamp (44:44)
is a huge home field advantage, huge. And the Rams found that out.
Heidi (44:50)
There you go, from your mouth.
Joel Heitkamp (44:53)
Yep, and yours is going to be where every town you're in now. I mean, you're you're out. You're looking at. Yeah, you're out looking at that new baby out in Oakland, so it's gotta be yeah so. Happy happy New Year, Hyde.
Heidi (44:59)
I guess I'm a 49ers fan right now. No, no, no, no, no. Happy
New Year, Joel.
Thank you for joining us today on The Hot Dish brought to you by One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us are heard in Washington.
Joel Heitkamp (45:21)
Learn more at onecountryproject.org. That's onecountryproject.org. Happy New Year, everyone. Follow us on Substack, Facebook, and Blue Sky. You can also find The One Country Project on YouTube. So be sure to like and subscribe to us there. We'll be back next week with more hot dish comfort food for rural Happy New Year, everyone.
Heidi (45:44)
Happy New Year, everyone.
Happy New Year. Let's make it a great one.