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Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
So Chad, thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of Visionary Voices.
Can you give us a top level view of what it is that you do right now and your journey so
far?
Yeah, I appreciate you having me.
So I am in the, what I call the people space, right?
We've started a company that over two and a half decades that really believe that
organizations improve when people improve and people improve when leaders improve.
And so we focus on how do we make sure we're maximizing the potential and the untapped
potential of people inside of organizations to ultimately drive results through authentic
and sincere ways of development, through authentic and sincere ways to drive higher levels
of engagement.
higher levels of fulfillment in what people do.
And really ultimately it's about how do we help organizations help their people create
what we call opportunity mindset, not obligation mindset.
So opportunity says I get to, obligation says I have to.
Now I'm not cloud nine Disney world, the world's perfect, but how do we sincerely and
authentically drive more of that opportunity mindset?
And we do that a lot through.
retention efforts, we did a lot through leadership development, through executive
development, strategic planning, board development, lot of areas we get into, but that's
the space that we're in right now and I'm having a blast doing it.
Amazing.
I love the mission there.
And I love the things that you guys are working with companies on.
Can you tell me the journey on actually getting into the business and what what made you
get into the world of business and do it yourself and get into the world of it?
Yeah, it's a great question.
So when I was 14 years old, and I was blessed at 14 years old to really have a path, and a
lot of people are still trying to figure it out, but I was 14 years old, I was watching my
dad in Chicago, I shared the stage with a guy by the name of Zig Ziglar.
It was at the Rosemont Horizon, now called the Donnelly Stevenson Center, right by the
airport, right by O'Hare.
And I had a chance to go backstage and I had a chance to meet Zig and I said, dad, this is
what I want to do with my life.
I didn't know anything about it, but I watched Zig come in, get on stage, wow an audience,
leave stage, exit stage left, go wherever he went.
And I was like, this is what I want to do.
He said, you're 14 years old.
Why don't you think about it for a little bit and come back and talk to me.
So I thought about it and I said, dad, this is what I want to do with my life.
My dad was in that space, kind of in that business consulting and advising.
And so I had a chance to be mentored under Zig and my dad from like 14 to 20 years old,
where we just kind of immersed in me understanding the people dynamics.
And I really learned lessons back then that I didn't realize I was learning that I'm still
using today, which is, listen, I'm not always the smartest guy in the room.
There's people that are way more intelligent than I am.
But if I can interact authentically with people, it opens up a lot of doors.
Right?
And so how can, and it's not about manipulation.
It's not about, you know, but how can I find ways to work with people that is sincere,
that creates those win-win situations?
And that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned.
So then at 20 years old, I could bore you for hours on the details, but for 20 years old,
20 years old, my dad actually got out of the business he was in and he, and they kind of
both coached me to go to work for a company called Dale Carnegie training.
And I, I had read
How to Win Friends and Influence People.
That's one of the first books my dad had me read.
And so I went to work for Dale Carnegie and I wanted to be a franchise owner.
They're called sponsors in that world.
And so I really worked hard.
I worked under a guy by the name of Mark Norman who still to this day is my mentor, Daryl
Perkins, who's still a mentor of mine.
Bob Pink, rest his soul, he's gone.
And I really wanted to go down the Carnegie path.
And so I did that for about five years.
and I was just getting ready to go into my sponsorship, kind of the avenue to really open
up my own franchise.
And there were about 12 sponsors that were getting out of the business.
Carnegie is still a great platform today, but companies at that time were wanting more
customized stuff.
So I had an opportunity, again, I had an opportunity at 14 when I met Zig, had an
opportunity at 25 to really ride the coattails of 12 sponsors in the Carnegie world who
some of them had more experience than I had age, right, than I was on earth, to really
work under them and really define how we help organizations set themselves up for success
with some of the things I talked about a little earlier.
And so I'm 48 years old now, so I had a chance to hang my own shingle at 25 and work with
them for about five, six, seven years and then really have a really strong foundation.
or not that I didn't need them anymore, but we really, we kind of went our separate ways,
all went down different paths.
We still connect today, but everybody's kind of doing their own thing, staying in their
own lane.
So that's how the whole thing started.
That's such an interesting journey because those people that you mentioned for a lot of
people have been such big inspirations and we've always heard their work and everything,
but you've been mentored by them, right?
You've had these conversations with them.
I mean, with Zig, I mean, what type of lessons did you learn from him when you're under
that mentorship?
Because again, he's been such an inspiration for so many of us.
I'd love to learn some of the things that you've learned from him.
Well, he, so he had, down in Texas, he had what he called born to win workshops.
had these workshops that, you know, I was able to get privy to and see the insights.
And of course he, he was a, one time he was like the number one sales guru out there,
right?
Wrote wrote a lot of books, right?
over the top, see at the top, these types of things, but a few things that, that continue
to stick out to me today is he always said, you know, if again, I
I'm talking about like authentic and sincere.
A lot of people think that the things that I do are BS, right?
Like this is all BS.
It's all fluff.
It's, you know, it's not real world.
So I try to just remove that equation, but he always said, you know, if you can help
enough people get what they want, you're going to get what you want, which is ultimately
kind of a servant mentality, right?
It's about, it's like in our organization right now, I want to create what I call a
win-win-win.
A win for our clients and the people that we serve.
That's number one focus of us.
How do we provide value?
and we're an asset to them, not a liability, right?
Because if we do that, our brand increases and enhances.
The second thing I want to do is create a win.
So the second win is for the team, right?
The people working on those projects, the people working in the office, the people working
project managers, project leads, our advisors, our partners that do work with us on those
projects.
If I can create a win for them, I win, right?
So that is one of the main anchor points that I learned working.
through Zig was that it's that if you help enough other people, ultimately there's that
law of reciprocity and it will come back to you.
So that really still is true today.
And that's what I mean.
Like if I always tell the team, if it's not energy for you, like if you don't enjoy doing
this anymore, just raise your hand, like raise your hand at any time, just tell me.
There's other avenues, there's other opportunities.
I don't want anybody to have an obligation mindset in our organization because it doesn't
serve us, it doesn't serve anybody.
and it doesn't set us up for the highest probability of success.
I love that win-win-win principle.
I think it's so simple, but it's so true.
And because you're optimizing for that, right?
At the end of the day, everyone is gonna win.
And as you said, when you put value out into the world, that is gonna come back in one
way, shape or form.
Cause I feel like a lot of businesses, well, especially younger entrepreneurs right now,
right?
We're seeing a lifestyle of X, Y, Z and a lot of the methods that are taught and there's
something when I got into business, is what I was taught at the same time.
was to be very transactional in the way we were dealing with clients or getting new
clients or hiring, firing team members, whatever that looked like, just very transactional
and not relationship focused and focusing on that win-win-win principle.
And I feel like something that's gonna really have to shift over the next few years is
getting back to that authenticity, that relationship focus, that win-win-win principle,
because I think some businesses and some business owners have started to lose that a
little bit when it's become
easy to be transactional with, let's say marketing, for example, doing cold outbound,
you're just blasting out 10,000 emails a week, very transactional, the way you're
approaching that relationship, but bringing it back to just having these authentic
conversations.
And so, I mean, on your side, when it comes down to authenticity, what's your definition
of authenticity?
It's an interesting avenue to explore because I'm with you.
I I believe that a relationship driven avenue gets you so much further than transactional.
I think transactional can win in certain situations.
I also think it's very short-sighted.
think it's very, and I always say that short-term shortcuts create long-term headaches,
right?
and
investments create long-term dividends and I'm talking about the relationships that we're
building so I could be short-sighted and I can do those types of things but authenticity
what that means back to your question is How do we truly create a relationship?
Where we're working together?
To drive the results that ultimately again those wins are gonna come out right and how are
when I talk about authenticity too I always talk about and this was something that I got
from Dan Sullivan from strategic coach.
He said, know every
role, responsibility, whatever somebody does, their career, their job function, of all the
activities that they have to do, there are things that are energy for them.
Okay?
So energy means three things.
One, they're good at it.
They enjoy doing it and it moves the business forward.
So it drives results.
Okay?
And then there's stuff or go back to that obligation mindset, right?
And stuff is defined as anything that drains energy.
Somebody else could be or should be doing it.
and negative relationships that are going nowhere.
So that's the stuff.
So when I'm talking to people about creating something that's an authentic relationship, I
really want to know within the work that they do, what's energy?
What drives them?
What do they see every single day where they get to do these things?
And then what's stuff?
What are things that they more obligation or they have to do these things?
And then I want to do everything I can to reallocate their time to focus on energy driven
activities or opportunity mindset activities.
and eliminate the stuff.
Now again, we're not gonna eliminate all the stuff.
Adam Carroll, a good friend of mine in this business, he always says there's a 20 % suck
factor in anything that we do, right?
Anything that we do, there's always gonna be a suck factor to it.
So we look at the four D's when it comes to the authenticity, right?
So if people have stuff, are there things that we can delegate, right?
Are there things that somebody else should be or could be doing?
I get blasted for this on social media all the time when I say,
As a leader, you should only do the things that you can do.
You should never do the things that somebody else could be or should be doing.
People always say that that's a cop out and you you want to be in the trenches with your
people and you want to do those things.
I don't disagree with all that.
However, if you want to leverage your time and leverage your resources and leverage your
people, get them doing the things that they should be doing and you focus on the things
that you should be doing.
So that's one.
The other one is are there things that we need to defer?
Which means
It's kind of like these to-do lists.
I'm just as guilty as anybody.
You have these to-do lists and every time you clean them up, there's items that stay on
those damn to-do lists over and over and over and over, right?
Just defer them.
they're just not, they're just, maybe they're not relevant this week, this quarter, this
month, this year, whatever the situation is, but just defer them and buy back more mental
space for energy-driven activities.
The next D is delete.
Are there things that just don't make sense?
There's so much noise in business today.
There's so much, you know it as an entrepreneur, there's so much noise as an entrepreneur.
What truly makes sense?
There's a difference between being busy and being productive, right?
We could be busy 24 seven as entrepreneurs.
The question is, are we being productive?
Are we moving forward?
So what are those things that we need to delete?
And then the last one is do.
What are those things that you can't defer?
You can't delegate, you can't delete, but you just have to change your mindset to them.
Right?
Because they're just part of what you signed up for.
There are things that I don't like to do as an entrepreneur, but nobody else can do them.
I have to do them.
So how do I change my mindset?
That's what I mean by authenticity.
When we can get people in those roles and working in that fashion, that's when the highest
productivity, the highest efficiencies, the highest effectiveness, and the greatest
results shine.
I love that.
think whilst you were saying that I was doing a quick audit of some of the tasks and
everything that I'm doing, know, is this bringing me energy, you said, or creating energy
within me?
You know, what things are sucking energy away from me as well.
And I think that's an audit that every so often as a business owner, because again, it's
so easy.
You go through a busy period and then as you said, your to-do list is full up of certain
things.
You've introduced a bunch of new activities and everything, but you just have to stop and
take audit of...
all these tasks and things that you're doing when you're speaking to a team, what tasks
are they doing and having this open conversation with them, right?
Is this creating energy for you?
Is this taking energy away from you?
And then from there, you can make the changes needed.
So as you said, the win, win, everyone, everyone wins at the end of it.
But you have to go through that audit process because in my experiences, kind of went
through a couple of years of just, again, just stacking up, I need to do this.
I need to do this.
I need to do this.
And then it wasn't until about
six to eight months ago, I was like, actually, do I need to be doing these things, right?
Start deleting some of these things out, starting to delegate, know, hiring up to delegate
some things out.
And that will happen because, you know, I stopped and just audited what it is I'm doing.
I feel like that's a routine exercise that everyone should get into the habit of just
doing because as you said, when you just clear all that stuff out, you can then be
authentic in the way you're moving with your work and relationships and everything in that
realm as well.
But I think that's such an important lesson for sure.
100%.
And then the other thing that you mentioned is like, so there's two types of, know,
there's our clients, then there's our team with our team too.
We also like to play the long game.
And there's a, again, I met this guy through one of my best friends, Adam Carroll's name,
Shane Mack.
This guy's doing amazing things in the, in the world of entrepreneurial space and
technology.
met him at probably about 15 years ago now.
It's been a while, but he has, he's, he started several companies, sold several companies,
been very successful in the space that he's in.
but he has an onboarding policy that from day one he teaches people how to quit.
Okay, so a lot of times if you think about it, and it was fascinating idea for me because
a lot of times if somebody's not happy in an organization, sometimes it's hard to quit,
right?
You don't know how to do it, you don't know what to do, is there another job out there,
whatever it is it might be.
So he just makes it really easy to quit if you don't wanna be there anymore and he has
four criteria.
He said number one,
Do it in person.
Number one, do it in person.
Just be upfront and honest and know that we're just gonna absorb it.
Just be big enough to do it in person.
Number two, help finish the things that you started.
So if you're in middle of a project, and I'm not saying you have to stop it or you have to
complete it, but how do you transition in a way that sets up the next person for success?
Number three, realize that if we feel we wanna keep you
he reserved the right to just have those conversations, right?
And he put that up front.
Like if I think it's something that we might be able to fix, I reserve the right to at
least open up those conversations.
And number four, realize that life's too short.
I will support and help you any way that you can as you move along your journey and your
career or this space or whatever it is it might be, as long as it's not detrimental to the
organization.
So that's something that I've also implemented with the team.
Like just, if it's not for you,
Let's figure out a way what the best path is and know it life's too short to hold
animosity.
I don't certainly don't need it.
I'll support whatever it is you do.
I just want to make sure you're doing things that set you up for success, especially when
you're working underneath the card group.
think I think that's such a clever way to approach that right is saying upfront.
And the biggest message I'm getting from all these different bits of conversation we're
having is that authenticity, right is you're just being upfront about like, look, this is
what it is.
If you want to go different direction, just follow these these steps, right?
Let's have these conversations.
And you're just being upfront and honest about it.
Because you're right, you know, when someone is unhappy in the workplace, they start
stressing out about it, they'll ruminate on it a little bit more, they might leave in a
way which is very negative for the business and it makes the business struggle a little
bit more so.
You've negated all those things by just being upfront and honest at the very start.
So it's very clever way of building up the team.
Here's what's for the 15 years ago, 12 years ago, whenever I met Shane and he introduced
this to me, here's the funny thing.
I've tried to introduce that to every one of my clients, every HR I've ever worked with.
And we work some large organizations across the globe.
Not one of them has implemented it.
You know what mean?
And that's a telltale sign.
Like there's some sort of fear factor or some sort of like, well, if I do that, it's going
to open up.
I believe that again, there's, people that just have a real hard time grasping that
concept because they feel like it's going to have.
the impact that to me is, it's not gonna have, it's gonna have the impact like you said,
like people are, I think people are gonna be more engaged and more fulfilled with what
they do because they know that there's that support there and there's that realness or
that authenticity.
Mm, no, definitely.
So you mentioned about working with some very big organizations.
So going into that, how are you able to create change in these big organizations?
Because, when I work with some companies and maybe there's only three to five of them,
right, we can create some big change very quickly and they can make the movements that
they need to make very quickly as well.
But when you work with big organizations, how do you manage that as a business consulting
with them and trying to create change within them?
Yeah.
So over the past two and a half decades, there's always room for improvement, but we think
we've perfected the formula for global massive change inside large organizations.
Matter of fact, I'm meeting with an organization next Tuesday that has 36,000 employees.
And the person that's taken over is really trying to figure out where to start.
Where do we start?
So there's two parts to this.
One is we have a formula, and I'll walk you through it kind of high level.
We can double click on anything you want to talk about.
But the second, so there's a formula, then there's a recipe, okay?
The recipe is customized to every client.
Nothing is completely off the shelf, completely baked, whatever the right, we wanna
provide the right solution at the right time for the right client in the right situation.
That's what we wanna do, that's the recipe.
The formula though does not change.
The formula is how we end up defining the recipe for the client that creates that massive
transformation and sustainment.
That's the key.
can, Anne Preseith who,
used to be client of mine, do some work with her.
She always used to say that change is something that can happen and people can revert
back.
Transformation is when things shift and they never go back to the old ways.
So we want to focus on kind of transformation, right?
So the first thing that has to happen is we have to get crystal clear with the first part
of the formula is we have to get crystal clear with the top key stakeholders in that
organization on what's the vision for this?
What are the responsibilities for this?
And can they ultimately drive this because that culture shifts and change and things that
we're trying to do.
You can't really just support or delegate.
You have to drive it.
If it's not, if it doesn't matter at the top, it's not going to matter, right?
If I report to you and I'm excited about something, but ultimately it doesn't matter to my
boss, eventually that's going to wane, right?
So if my boss is not supporting it and really helping me focus it and integrate it.
So number one is we have to get crystal clear and the expectations have to be clear from
day one.
that the leaders of the organization have to drive it and have to support it.
That takes sometimes a lot of work because there's difference of opinions.
Where should we go?
What should we do?
And that's fine.
We'll take enough amount of time at the end of that first piece of the formula, all the
key stakeholders that we need, because they're the influencers, they're the people that
drive, they're the people that others look up to, all the people at that table are clear.
and more importantly aligned on what we're trying to accomplish.
That's the first thing.
Second thing that has to happen is we have to, we at the Carden Group, our team of
advisors have to understand what reality is, not just taking it from one side.
Like the key stakeholders think that, here's our issues, here's what we do, here's what
our strengths are, here's whatever there's opportunity are.
So we have to really, what we call do a 360 approach.
And it's not about surveys and all that type of stuff.
We can do that and that's fine.
but it's about us getting out there and really meeting with all levels of an organization.
Because I always say the way you see it and the way somebody on the front line sees it is
different, not right or wrong, just different.
And it's irresponsible for us to just take it from one lens.
We need to see a totality lens and really hear from those people.
That does three things.
And we spent a lot of time in that.
That does three things.
One, we truly get to know the organization on an intimate level.
We sometimes will work within our clients and we'll have some people come up to us and
goes,
How long have you worked with X or how long have you worked for?
Like they think that we work for them.
Our business is to know their business, right?
We wanna know their business sometimes better than they know it.
That's when we're a true asset.
The second thing, so number one, we understand.
Number two, the second thing that that does is it helps us create something that builds
credibility.
Right, it's not who are these guys?
What do they know about us?
You know, how are they gonna help us when we can come back and say, hey, we spent time in
all 122 of your locations.
We've spent time in 50 locations.
We've spent, you know, like we spent time at every level.
Not that every, but we're gonna get everybody, but a lot of people are gonna go, okay,
they've done their homework.
Right?
It's not just this off the shelf, this is how you lead or this is how you do, this is how
you create change.
And the third thing that it does, which is a byproduct and kind of indirect, but it really
helps us, is it helps create internal advocates.
Cause we're really good when we meet people of building that immediate rapport and that
immediate relationship.
They're like, I like these guys, I like this girl, I like these people.
And all of a sudden, guess what?
When we see them again, boom, we have immediate instant credibility with them.
And if they're influenced with inside the organization,
immediately our brand just continues to elevate.
So that's formula piece number two.
Then number three is we have to customize things that are real and relevant to them.
Meaning, I don't have anything off the shelf, right?
I have a library of things that we could certainly develop and help train people on.
But ultimately, what are the pieces that they need?
What are the pieces that they need now?
Not that they're gonna need in 12 months.
What are the pieces that are real that they can implement today?
Right?
That they can literally go back and they believe that if they implement those, they will
see the impact and value.
So we develop customized approaches and it might be three pieces of content.
It might be 10 pieces of content.
It might be one piece of content.
Where do we start?
And how can we get the audience that we're working with and developing to go, not only is
that good in theory, I could use that.
Okay?
So that's the third piece.
Fourth piece is there has to be an element of follow-up, accountability and appreciation.
So we, after we put people through development, we follow them for a minimum of 120 days
and we check in.
We check in what's working, what's not working.
If you're not doing it, it's not a gig.
What's getting in the way?
What's that noise, right?
What are some of those things that are taken over?
If you are doing it, what successes are you seeing?
Let's build upon those.
What coaching do you need?
So it's not just we come in, we swoop in, we give them these things and we say, we're out
of here.
We stay in the car with them to make sure that they're comfortable being able to drive and
they feel confident.
that we feel confident that they're actually gonna sustain it.
And then the last piece of it is, and this could take six months, this could take two or
three years, we just don't know the timeframe based on the client.
The last thing that we do is we build internal resources to take over what we're doing.
So we find those people in the organization that can become internal advisors like we are,
that literally when we work our way out of the car, three Cs are present, confidence,
comfort, and competence.
So this group, whether it's a group of, we're working with an organization right now that
we have 150 of these internal influencers that are taking over what we're doing.
We got about six more months with them.
Guess what?
We work with these people, this group.
Now that group carries on what we're doing and it goes into perpetuity.
So it really becomes part of their DNA.
That's where the transformation happens.
So that's the formula.
And with inside the formula, we figure out the recipe and those types of things.
There's three relationships that we have with our clients.
One is we're just a vendor, right?
Where that transaction, like you mentioned, where they just, you know, they just maybe buy
something from us and that's maybe 10 % of our portfolio.
The next relationship is we're partners.
Where now they see us as somebody who is a good resource, they can go to us, they wanna
leverage us for maybe additional resources and services that we provide and it truly is
that win-win situation.
The last one is where we really wanna get to, which is we become a trusted advisor.
That's where, so there's vendor partner, trusted advisor.
That trusted advisor is where now we become a line item, right?
We just become a line item on their budget every single year.
And they just find more stuff for us to do because we are so in tune with them that we are
now an asset that they can't afford to potentially remove off the budget.
So that's how we do it.
I love that process.
I think it's so clear how you managed to lay all that out, right?
Creating this change within these huge organizations, you managed to distill it down into
these relatively, let's say simple, for lack of a better word, formula, as you said.
And the bit that really highlighted to me was when you said you go through and not only
speak to, you know, the executives at the top of the company, but also everyone else,
right?
You get everyone's side to the story because, I mean, my dad always used to tell me, you
know,
there's three sides to every story, you your side, their side and the truth.
And so you need to create, okay, what is the truth within this company?
What do they actually need and take the inputs from all these stories, as you said, and
then you can actually create the change because you understand what is actually happening
within the company itself.
So I love that point of it for sure.
Awesome.
Yeah.
And we're continuing to improve it, but we feel like over two and a half decades, we're
confident that we can go into any situation and meet them where they're at using our
formula and give them something of value that they could really use to create better
results.
Yeah, definitely.
And then you mentioned the process of going from like vendor to all the way to trusted
advisor.
So, I mean, do have any other tips around that area where, people, if right now they're in
a business or their business is seen as just a vendor, right?
Where they want to move to more of being a trusted advisor.
Like, how do you make that shift within the company?
And how do you start becoming trusted advisors at these companies?
So they always stay with us.
two things.
One is, if you wanna, I always say, we work with lot of salespeople and they always say, I
wanna make more money.
You wanna make more money, just add more value, right?
You add more value.
The money's a byproduct.
When I chase the money, the money would sit diluted.
When I just decide I was gonna add more value and add impact, somehow financially it found
me.
So it's a byproduct, right?
Add more value.
The second thing is, it's what we call create the buy, okay?
People love to buy, but they hate to be sold, right?
Like if I, every time I walk into a client, if I'm trying to pitch them on something else
or, you could do this or, hey, this might work or, hey, have you thought about this?
Every time I'm in there, now I'm building a brand of, what's Chad gonna try to sell me
next, right?
If we create the buy by just doing really good work and being an asset and showing them
value and them getting feedback, like these, you know,
the carding group's great and what they do is fantastic and we love it and we need more of
it and we wish we had this 10 years ago.
If we can create that environment, the next opportunity just presents itself.
So just creating that by by doing really good work and again, authentically and sincerely,
I always go back to those, building really strong relationships by making sure that, like
the key stakeholders.
We're not a mole for the key.
I don't talk to the frontline, then I go back and tell them all the things that they say
bad about them.
That wouldn't be in our best interest, because then nobody would talk to us.
However, when we're able to be an asset, because executives have blind spots too, right?
Like they don't know what they don't know.
And a lot of times people put on a show when they're out there, right?
It's like, this is reality, but here comes the big wig.
Let's clean up everything, right?
Let's shove things in drawers.
So they don't have that and we are able at all those levels to build that relationship
where people can be open and honest with us and they feel comfortable with that.
So then I can take that information in a sensitive way and provide ideas and thoughts that
enhance what the executives are doing and make them look like superstars.
When I can make my key stakeholders look like superstars, that helps us continuously move
up that chain to where we become trusted advisors.
And then they look at us and they're like, what else can you do for us?
Or.
A lot of times our business has been built on they leave that organization, go to another
organization.
Guess what?
We go with them.
Or they have associations that they're with.
We get referred into them.
I mean, there's just so many opportunities when you do it the right way and not try to
sell, but try to create the buy.
It's crazy how many doors open.
I completely agree on this part because I mean, something that we do a lot of is teaching
companies when it comes to marketing and sales is how do you just create the
relationships, right?
The sales will take care of itself, just speak to more people, build those relationships,
and then the sales will take care of itself.
And essentially the sales process is so funny, but it becomes like helping a friend.
That's what it feels like.
It doesn't feel like you're selling, right?
It's just you're speaking to them, they're mentioning they have a certain problem.
And you've got that relationship now where it's like, well, you know, do this, this.
Like we can, we can help you with that.
And there's no selling involved.
It's just helping them.
And it's such an interesting time when you reach that level, because back, back in the
day, when I started mine, I was trying to be very transactional jumping onto a sales call
with my sales script from my, my closer framework or whatever framework I was trying to
rinse off that time.
And now I'm at a point where when I'm just having these conversations with people have
relationships already with.
There's no selling involved, no direct transactional selling involved.
It's just speaking to them as a friend, right?
On a level with them essentially.
And it becomes effortless is what I'm trying to say.
And it's such an interesting shift.
when companies do make that shift, how more relaxed they are, right?
When it comes down to the sales and marketing aspect of the company.
Yeah.
And listen, it might be a different approach.
If I was in a different space, it might be different, but in my space, it works really
well where people buy from people.
And like you said, you build friendships, you build professional relationships.
You also build friendships where people are just comfortable and confident in you and you
move forward and back to your, like even when we're selling new business now, I almost
negatively sell it.
And what I mean by negatively sell is I'm like, listen, we have a formula and we're not
for everybody.
Like if you just want, like you can't go to the gym once and be in shape, right?
You can't eat good for a day and all of a sudden, you you're gonna have a six pack.
You can't do it.
So if you want a quick fix or you just want something that you think, you know, save your
pennies with us.
Like don't spend your money.
If you want true transformation and you want real results, this is what it's gonna take.
And what I find is a lot, and I'm okay if they say no, right?
We're not for everybody.
I really mean that.
If they say no, but I wanna get into relationships where people want to,
take us to that trusted advisor and want us to create that win-win scenario, because
that's much more impactful for me than just those transactions of, know, sell quick, make
a buck, sell quick, make a buck.
And I can also say that because I'm, you know, I have the luck, people say, well, you can
say that because you're in the spot that you're in.
Sure, however, I really believe that no matter what spot you're in, if you take that
approach, the byproduct will be, you will grow in the areas you want to grow in, including
the finance.
Yeah.
mean, ultimately you got to this point there right now by doing these actions, right.
And cause I completely agree, you know, right.
If you're approaching it in that right way, it just makes so much more sense to actually
move the business along and everything as well.
So in terms of the future of where you see your company heading to, especially with these
changes we're seeing just in the marketplace in general, right.
With AI automation, all these things coming into play.
How do you feel like this is going to maybe shift and change over time, if it will within
your industry?
You know, we are constantly focused on this right now.
We are having conversation as a team always right now.
There's a mindset of no matter how much AI there, there's still some sort of personal
connection that will always be there.
There's a mindset on the other side that says, you know, if Musk invents chips in
everybody and you can communicate and it be crystal clear without even verbally saying
anything.
I mean, there's all, and everywhere in between.
So.
To be candid, we're still going through all this and trying to figure out how do we shift,
if anything, that drives impact.
think a couple things are still relevant.
And I don't know if this is five years, two years, 10 years, I'm not exactly for sure the
timeline, but I think a couple things are still relevant.
One is,
there are people exiting the workforce quicker than there are new people coming in, right?
So we have to get the people with five or 10 years left in their career to really engage
in the new population.
We have to remove, there's a lot of BS out there that says, the new generation doesn't
wanna work and they don't wanna do this and they wanna do that and they wanna, which.
to me it's like, instead of worrying about what the differences are, let's find the
commonalities.
We're all human, right?
We all wanna feel valued.
We all wanna feel like we're doing a good job.
We all probably love our family.
There's some things that we can connect with.
Work with those things versus continuously building a divide, right?
I hear so many times, well, back in my day, and then I hear the new generation say, it's
not your day anymore.
You know what I mean?
So you hear all these different things.
It's like, number one is, you know,
How can we get those people to connect and really work together?
Because there's a lot of intellectual capital that are leaving organizations without any
type of succession planning or setting the next person up for success.
That's one.
Two is with AI and where technology is going, is how do we shift the conversation from
either or to an and conversation?
So I think a lot of people think in either or, like, well, either I can use people or I
can use AI.
OK, how can you use people and?
AI, right?
How can you leverage it together?
And so that's another thing that we're trying to get people to shift on.
And then the third thing is, is also getting people to shift of don't put your head in the
sand anymore.
Like AI is here, right?
And a lot of people are not adopting it.
And so you can't say it's like, it's like our cell phones.
It's like, eventually all of a sudden they just take over our life.
AI is doing that.
And so you can't, you just can't fight it.
Like how do you work with it?
versus saying, well, I'll deal with it when I need to, I deal with it.
No, it's time.
Now's the time.
If you're not leveraging, especially for like entrepreneurs trying to build business, if
you're not leveraging, there is so much AI out there.
We're now, again, we have a list of like 25 different AI opportunities that we're trying
to figure out going back to the four Ds.
Like which ones do we leverage?
Which ones do we shell for defer?
Which ones might we delete?
Cause it doesn't make sense.
But they are coming to the market so quickly.
that it's almost overwhelming.
And so we're looking at ways that we help companies shift that way, we'll help companies
not see an either or with people or AI, but it's more and.
then the third one is with kind of the removal of AI is getting the generations to work
with each other, not be so defensive of your position.
Like, well, we did this, well, we wanna do this.
Remove that and just really work together.
When you get people not just working together, but truly working together, that's when the
magic of results happens.
Yeah, I love that.
I think one of the takeaways there for me, because it's something that I've spoken to
quite a few people about in relation to AI is, as you said, it doesn't have to be a
replacement, right?
You don't have to replace someone with AI.
It's, as you said, how do you make them work together?
Because ultimately, at the end of the day, when you start implementing AI within just your
workflows, you know, you can speed up the efficiencies of certain things, you can get
things done quicker, you can get things done to maybe a different standard that you were
doing before.
But ultimately in a lot of businesses, especially in, think the marketing and consulting
style businesses is there will always be that human element.
As you said, you need to build that connection, you need to build that authenticity with
them, that rapport and everything.
And it's going to be interesting to see over the next say 10 years in in a sea and in a
world of automation and AI within our industries.
Maybe the human element is what's going to set us apart even more than what we're already
doing.
And so that's going to be an interesting shift, I think over the next few years.
And then the other shift that's going to occur is then maybe in the next 30 years, when
the generation below, even me are going to start coming up and they're only going to know
AI.
So maybe they'll be able to connect to that on a certain level that we can't.
So there's going to be all these shifts coming into play.
But I think for right now, as you said, it's yeah, don't bury your head in the sand with
it because it's definitely here and you should definitely look into what you can be doing
with it.
But at the same time, understand that, you know, how can you make it work joint forces
with the team that you have already?
Right?
How can you just
improve everything all around by just implementing it within and working with it, not just
replacing your team members with it, let's say.
Yeah, and it reminds me as you were saying that, that one of the things for entrepreneurs,
leaders, people who run organizations, have you wanna, know, a lot of those categories, a
word that should be the focus of the day, every day is leverage, right?
How are you leveraged?
And you can leverage really four things.
You can leverage your time, you can leverage people, you can leverage resources, you can
leverage money.
Those are the four things you can leverage.
And AI is a resource.
Like how do you leverage it versus fighting it?
How do I leverage my time and people to buy back?
Again, there are things that AI candidly can do that help create more efficiencies.
You know, the technology with the fathom, you know, the note-taking.
I mean, there's just little things that save you 20 minutes afterwards creating a summer.
I mean, it's just, it's so tactical, but people, and I think people are defensive too.
Like they're scared.
Like, well, AI is gonna take over my job.
But to your point, if you elevate your game in the people side of it, it might even
actually separate you where now you're even a greater asset in the whole AI world as it
comes.
Yeah, I agree.
And we can see that quite clearly within, you know, jobs that being posted.
I mean, there's prompt engineering jobs for AI specifically within these companies, which
have very, very high salaries, right?
And so a dev who is just, you know, a standard dev, not within AI and not learning the
prompt engineering side are missing out on such a big opportunity.
So it's not always the case of, it's going to replace my job.
It's a case of, it's just going to change my job.
It's going to change the requirements that's needed for me to do this job.
So yeah, the shift is going to be very interesting.
I wanna circle back a little bit more to the network and the lessons you might've learned
from other entrepreneurs because I feel like there's always some commonalities between,
let's say, the successful entrepreneurs and maybe entrepreneurs that don't quite reach
those levels that they want to.
So, I mean, what's three commonalities that you've seen with people within your network
where they've achieved success or maybe they haven't and what were those three things?
three things, to narrow down to three things, but let me see if I can't do this.
So I'll tell you what I, and I have always been a student of people, not for judgment or
criticism, just for observations.
I take the things that I really, and it's not that I wanna be those other people, but how
do I make that work for me, right?
And what I found was is that really successful entrepreneurs are really good at
life in general, right?
It's not, it's not, I know people who have very, very successful businesses, but their
personal life is, are in shambles, right?
I know other people who their personal life had pulled them away from business and their
businesses have failed.
Really solid entrepreneurs are good.
It's not about, you know, somebody told me this, can't remember who it was, but it, it's
not about work life balance.
It's about work life integration, right?
How do you not, how do you not, and,
If you think about it, a lot of times, you know, on my feed, it's, you know, people will
go on vacation and their mindset, this is their mindset, unconsciously, I'm not saying
that they know they're even doing this, but this what, you'll see them post a picture like
as they're leaving their vacation and there's some sort of quote like back to reality,
right?
Well, why can't vacation be reality?
You know what I mean?
How can't you just integrate it and make everything, whether you're, I think JP Morgan
said this, whether I'm working or playing, I don't wanna be able to tell the difference,
right?
So I think that is something that I really try to hone in on.
I'm not perfect.
A lot of my wounds are self-inflicted, but that's one of the things that I really strive
for is how do I make sure that because one succeeds, the other one doesn't succeed, how do
I just succeed at life?
How do I succeed at life with my family and my health and my business and my social and
the chair?
How do I succeed at those things in a way where
I elevate them, know, rising tide raises all ships.
How do I do that versus I'm succeeding in business, but my, but my, you know, I'm
neglecting my boys or I'm seeing my business, but I'm neglecting my wife.
I want to remove that and just play at a level where everything's rolling on it.
It's, it's an ebb and flow, but that's one that I really see in successful entrepreneurs.
Here's the other one.
Successful entrepreneurs also understand that a lot of times the journey is three times as
hard.
takes three times the effort, takes three times the investment, takes three times the time
than what they would think, right?
It was Vision Lacchiani, I think, told me one time, he said, people truly underestimate,
truly overestimate what they can accomplish in 12 months, but truly underestimate what
they can accomplish in 36 months, right?
So we overestimate and that's what happens with entrepreneurs.
They start a business, they wanna do this, they wanna do that.
They're not getting the results that they see or they're not seeing it and they just, they
fold, right?
And so, you know, in that 12 months, we overestimate like, I can do this, I can do this, I
can raise this type of capital, I can do this, can that.
But sometimes we truly underestimate what we can do in three years or five years.
And so I find that some entrepreneurs that are really, really good have more of that
long-term vision and they're not typically worried about
today.
I struggle with that by the way.
mean, I, we do have a, there's a, there's a mastermind group that I, that I've kind of
been a part of over the years that you can't be part of this unless you have a 25 year
vision.
If you don't have a 25 year vision, you're not, you're not allowed.
So because if you have a 25 year vision, a roadblock tomorrow, really, if you really focus
on the long-term vision, a roadblock tomorrow, isn't going to take you out of the game.
Right.
But if I'm just trying to get payroll at the end of the month, that roadblock tomorrow
might send me over the edge.
So that's the second thing really.
having a long-term game plan and making sure that every day, it's like, you wanna break it
up into chunks, but how am I making sure that I'm moving towards it?
And if a headwind comes or something happens, it's not gonna take me out of the game.
think so many entrepreneurs, fail might be the wrong word.
So many entrepreneurs don't sometimes succeed because they don't have that persistence
because they don't have that long-term game plan of what they're trying to accomplish.
Love that.
third thing that entrepreneurs, the ones that I've really just taken from, and there's a
lot of them, I could list them out, but the third thing that I think they do really,
really well is they elevate others.
It's not I win, you lose.
They really elevate people in a way where they give others the credit when success happens
and they'll fall on the sword.
if there's a challenge.
I think there's some merit to that that I try to continuously focus on that just helps
everybody.
Again, goes back to that win, win, win scenario, all authentic and sincerely.
I gotta keep saying that, but I really think those are the, if I had to boil it down to
three, that's what I would really say.
It's work-life integration.
It's playing the long game and it's elevating people around you where you have a brand
where when you come into a room,
People are excited to see you, not when you come into a room.
You might have the most money in the room, but people wanna try to avoid you, right?
That's not winning the game in my opinion.
Yeah, I love that.
And that second point that you mentioned about work life integration, I think that's such
a important thing to note because we always hear work life balance, right?
Like it's two completely separate things.
But as you said, life is, all integrated, it's all in one place, right?
And we need to treat it such.
so optimizing your day, you know, your weeks, what are those things look like?
But you've got to maintain those core things, right?
Health, wealth, relationships, those three core main things, which fit so many different
things into.
If one isn't there after 10 years, you're going to be lacking, right?
If money isn't there, you're going to be lacking.
If health isn't there, you're going to be lacking.
And relationship, same thing.
So if you can work on all three, you know, for yourself, then ultimately then you're going
to win the game, you know, whatever this game you want to call it, but you're going to win
the game for yourself.
And you're definitely going to feel that as well.
Cause I remember for the first couple of years when I was on the entrepreneurial journey,
let's say, there was no work life integration.
There was no work life balance, let's say.
It was just work and that's what it was.
And at the end of that two year process, I was just burnt out.
was like, I've neglected all these relationships, my health was going down and all these
different things.
And it wasn't until someone had this conversation with me, one of my mentors and said,
look, we need to start optimizing for these other things as well, because these are
critical.
These are very, very important.
So I love that message and I love all three of those things as well.
Well, good.
Yeah, I think that, I think that now there are times certainly where things show up more
than others, right?
But it's, it's, it's absolutely, there are chapters that you go through where some things
show up a little bit higher just for certain circumstances, but ultimately how do you
create just one life that you're just living and you're, you know, you're, you're, you're
impacting all those things in a positive way.
Definitely.
So one of the final questions we always ask on this show is if you can go back to your 18
year old self and take three things with you, whether it's some business knowledge, some
philosophy knowledge or some technical knowledge, what would those three things be and why
would it be those things?
think number one, take more risks.
I think I would take more risks.
I have been blessed in all areas and nobody would feel, no one's feeling sorry for me
right now.
And I think it's because I did take some risks.
However, if I had to go back, I could probably dial that up.
I could probably 10 times the risk that I took.
So I think take more risks.
Number two, never forget the people that helped you get there.
Right?
And like never forget them.
And I, and I try, but I, I'm sure I failed.
I'm sure there's people out there that, you know, I have not stayed connected with, or I
have not thanked, like never pass up an opportunity to show authentic appreciation for
people that, you know, help you get to where you're at.
And I would say the third thing would probably be, so number one is take more risks.
Number two is never forget the people that you know, got you where you're at.
would think the third thing would, would, would probably be.
be more adventurous.
And what I mean by that is there have been times, and again, I'm not, I am a huge work in
progress, right?
There's a lot of things, and you put my wife on here, she'll tell you, but I think there
were times in my life where I didn't, it's, God, what's his name?
There's a guy that says don't have a bucket list, have an effort list, right?
Like just, if there's an opportunity to do something, just go do it, right?
Life is too short, go do it.
Jesse Itzler, I think, has that.
anyway, yeah, Itzler has the effort list.
So there have been times in my life if I had to go back where I had opportunities to do
things and I might not have because of whatever reason, right?
And I justified it because it didn't make sense.
I didn't have the money.
I had business I had to do, I had work.
And I think if I'd go back to 18 self, would be like just.
There's a whole world out there and we have a short time on it.
Go be as adventurous as you can, experience as many things as you can, really stuff
things.
If you have money, you can always buy things, but invest that money in experiences.
Those are things that you're never gonna forget.
I would say those three.
Amazing.
I love the message here and I love all the knowledge you've shared today.
So thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.
You bet.
Thanks.